Snares
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. May I just help a little? I am sure the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd) is very close to the end, but he is now past the 20 minutes, and I am very bothered that we have a lot of Members and a busy afternoon. If he could wind up shortly, I would be grateful.
Simon Hart
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the Government and, indeed, his sponsors in this debate—the League Against Cruel Sports—have occasionally used snares for research and tagging purposes. All the descriptions he has just attached to this practice apply when it is used for those purposes, which could be construed as important.
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. What I would say is that you have been very generous—maybe over-generous. The fact is that it is normally 15 minutes for the opening of a debate. I have been very generous and very tolerant—quite rightly, because this is a very important subject—but I do want to get other Members in because we have another debate to follow.
Jim Dowd
Mr Deputy Speaker, I accept your direction implicitly. I shall draw my remarks to a conclusion.
This motion is overwhelmingly supported by animal welfare organisations—not just the League Against Cruel Sports, but Animal Aid, Cats Protection, the RSPCA, the International Fund for Animal Welfare and many others. If a medical product was as ineffective as snares are in achieving their purpose, and if it had the same hideous and detrimental side effects as snares, it would be banned, and I believe that snares should be as well.
I will leave the final word to Mr Chris Packham, a naturalist and well-known TV broadcaster, who said:
“Indiscriminate and inhumane, they should be illegal—there is not much more to say about snares.”
Several hon. Members rose—
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
Mr Deputy Speaker, I am grateful to have caught your eye. I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests—in case the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Jim Dowd), who introduced this debate, is interested, I am a farmer. I also draw attention to the fact that I am chairman of the all-party group on shooting and conservation, which has an interest in this matter. I respect a lot of what the hon. Gentleman said, but I want to put my remarks into context and disagree with much of what he said.
The use of snares is an important tool in wildlife management, which benefits conservation. I was a little bit disturbed to hear the hon. Gentleman paying so little attention to species, such as curlew and lapwings, that are severely endangered—to the point of extinction in some areas—by fox predation. Therefore, it is necessary to control foxes in such situations if we want these important species to survive and thrive.
There is often no practical and effective replacement for snaring at crucial times of the year. That is particularly the case during summer and spring, because there are heavily leafed areas on trees and that is a time of year when lambs, piglets and other farmed animals are at their most vulnerable, yet at the same time, foxes are having their cubs and therefore become the biggest predators of those farmed animals. Snares are therefore an important part of fox control.
As the hon. Gentleman said, well-designed snares, used properly, are humane and effective in fox control. As he rightly pointed out, it has been illegal throughout the United Kingdom for over 20 years to use self-locking snares. DEFRA-commissioned research in 2012, which he referred to, identified how snaring can be improved through snare design and operating practices.
I want to quote the Game & Wildlife Conservation Trust—the GWCT—which is widely respected for its independent research. It says:
“Foxes kill young lambs, piglets reared outdoors, and free range and domestic poultry...Foxes also prey on vulnerable wild ground-nesting birds like black grouse, partridge, lapwing, curlew and stone curlew, and on brown hare. Several of these are species of conservation concern…There are several methods to control foxes but none of them are effective in all circumstances. One method widely used for foxes is snaring. Snares are particularly effective for foxes in places and at times of the year when rifle shooting is not possible because of dense cover but when fox control may be critical for”
wildlife prey.
Indeed, the hon. Gentleman’s own colleague, the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner), when he was Under-Secretary of State at DEFRA, said:
“The Government consider that, where there is a need for wildlife management, the proper use of snares is one of a range of control methods. Used according to best practice, snares can be an effective and practical means of wildlife management and are needed where other forms of pest control are ineffective or impractical. In these circumstances, snares restrain rather than kill and may prove to be more humane than other methods. If snares were to be banned entirely it”
may
“encourage the use of more dangerous and illegal alternatives such as poisons.”—[Official Report, 28 November 2006; Vol. 453, c. 495W.]
In the time available—I accept your strictures, Mr Deputy Speaker—I will try to rebut one or two of the arguments advanced by the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge. The 2012 DEFRA study set out to estimate the scale of the perceived problems. Inevitably, the resulting figures are an approximation, with considerable uncertainty attached, and I think that is where the right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) got her figures from. It is important to realise that some organisations have constructed figures by extrapolating from small samples, which are unlikely to be representative of all the situations in which snares are used, or of current working practices.
For instance, the humaneness assessment in the DEFRA study involved a single operator working in one set of circumstances, while the assessment of the extent of use was made across a random sample of landholdings. If we multiply those figures, we get the sort of figure to which the right hon. Lady referred, which is most unlikely to be true.
Let us look at some of the evidence. An extensive field study involving 429 fox captures showed that, given good practice, less than 1% of snare-caught foxes were injured or killed as a result. Some believe that animals held in snares may seem all right at the time of release but go on to develop life-threatening necrotic conditions—the hon. Member for Lewisham West and Penge referred to that—but there is no evidence that that commonly occurs. On the contrary, foxes and badgers caught in snares by scientists for radio-tagging have typically not shown any abnormal behaviour or higher mortality. In GWCT studies, some individual foxes have been recaptured in snares, with no apparent ill effect.
How much time have I got?
Flooding
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(10 years, 5 months ago)
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Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I want to get everyone in, because I understand that we all have major problems and that flooding is a big issue. I am going to impose a four-minute limit, but I suggest that we try not to intervene so that everybody gets equal time.
Andrew Percy
I am sorry to intervene, but I think that this is important. I congratulate my hon. Friend for what he did for his constituents. I got sick of seeing him on “Look North”—he did such a good job. Parish councils are important. In my village, when the warning came it was the volunteer emergency plan team in the village that swung into action. Do we not need to learn from that so that in future flooding incidents we encourage every village and parish to have an emergency plan in place? They can do much more than the county councillors can.
Mr Deputy Speaker
Order. I understand that the hon. Gentleman wants to get on the record, but if he wants to make a speech he should put his name in— [Interruption.] No, do not argue. I want to treat everybody fairly and equally and that was quite a lengthy intervention.
Nigel Adams
I totally agree with my neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy). What some of the flood wardens have done is exemplary. Many are parish councillors and we should take our hat off to them.
Church Fenton had three homes underwater adjacent to the former RAF base, and I thank the Prime Minister for joining me in visiting families affected in the village, without media coverage and the accompanying journalists. I know that that approach meant a lot to families in Church Fenton. Nearby Kirkby Wharfe saw a dozen homes affected, ironically just before a flood defence solution was about to be implemented. Even if it had been in place, however, homes would still have suffered given the sheer levels of flood water.
The town of Tadcaster, famous for its brewing heritage, its viaduct and its 300-year-old bridge has now attracted worldwide media attention. I want to take a moment to comment on the response to the flooding in Tadcaster.
I, along with more than 100 residents, attended a public meeting the day after Boxing day at which volunteers signed up to help the relief effort. Alongside the flood group, residents were fortunate to have the assistance of Team Rubicon and Serve On, a team of volunteers assisting the people of Tadcaster and the surrounding villages following the devastating impact of the flooding. Following the partial collapse of the bridge, Team Rubicon volunteers who had travelled from all over the UK assisted the Army with the evacuation of homes until the risk of gas leaks had been lifted. I should like to single out Dougie Clark, Team Rubicon’s incident commander, and his colleague David Wiseman for the leadership they provided during the response and the recovery stages. Their volunteers, working in conjunction with the town’s flood group under Nicola Eades and the town council staff, did an incredible job and their support will not be forgotten.
It is fair to say that the response to the flooding was almost exemplary. It involved the emergency services, local councils, environment agencies, charities, utilities—and yes, Government Ministers—but above all, the residents and the business community of Tadcaster and those from the wider area who came to the town’s aid. I want to mention a recent review by the North Yorkshire fire authority on the changes to fire services in Tadcaster. Perhaps this crisis will provide an opportunity for the fire authority to revisit its decision to downgrade fire services there.
As the local MP, I have seen with my own eyes acts of kindness and selflessness since the flooding that will stay with me for a long time. In fact, all the affected communities have shown incredible resilience and a community spirit that demonstrates the best of Yorkshire and the best of British. I want to take this opportunity to welcome a longer-term approach to flood defence spending and the national flood resilience review. Parts of my constituency, including Tadcaster, have a long and potentially arduous road ahead as they recover from Storm Eva, and it is crucial that we stand by their people and their businesses, and by the town, district and county councils. The Government have made a good start with their response, but this problem requires not only a short-term response but medium and long-term solutions—
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I am going to reduce the time limit to three minutes to give everybody equal time.
Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con)
I am fortunate that my Newark constituency has not been seriously flooded in this winter’s flooding, but it has been among the worst-flooded of any constituency in the country over the past few years. Forty towns and villages in my constituency have been flooded in the past three years alone, including the beautiful cathedral town of Southwell, which was devastated in 2013. More homes were flooded in that small town than were flooded in all the Somerset levels in 2014. Some residents are still not home.
As other hon. Members have said, being flooded is not only a terrible inconvenience, but can be an individual tragedy. Some of those tragedies do not become apparent until sometime later. I have met constituents whose elderly parents were rescued from their homes by the emergency services and taken elsewhere, very confused and scared, and died in temporary accommodation or nursing homes, having never returned to their own homes. Essentially, their lives were washed away by the floods.
Some good things have undoubtedly come out of the floods, particularly in Southwell, which I hope gives a glimmer of hope to other communities. That community was brought together wonderfully by those events. A very important and award-winning flood forum was founded.
In the short time I have, may I make three observations drawn from our experiences in Nottinghamshire? As this is an Opposition day debate, inevitably a blame game crops up, but the Secretary of State and more recently the Minister could not have been more helpful to my communities. They have had the greatest and most helpful can-do attitude. Together, we have begun to achieve quite a lot for those communities.
My first point is that we need a more local approach to prevention and maintenance, as well as to the implementation of new flood protection schemes. In communities such as Southwell where there are superb flood forums, I ask the Secretary of State please to make use of them in her flood review and gain the benefit of their experiences. I ask her to make small amounts of money available to them. They need that money immediately to create websites and fliers and so on. Those are invaluable. Where we have those groups and they do such a good job, I ask her to use them and not simply to rely on the Environment Agency and such large, often excruciatingly slow, organisations. We should use those forums and the internal drainage boards. I heard from someone or other in the Labour party over the winter that IDBs are hopeless and out of touch, and that they are dominated by biased landowners. The opposite is true in my area: the Trent valley IDB is superb.
Secondly, I ask the Secretary of State please to use local people so that we can use public money better. This debate should be about getting value for money for the taxpayer, rather than simply about the quantities.
My last point in the dying seconds that I have available is this: we need to explain to the public that many people will be flooded—
Climate Change and Flooding
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(10 years, 5 months ago)
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Barry Gardiner
On limiting that extreme weather, the Secretary of State will recall that the Chancellor mentioned 300,000 properties whose flood risk was being reduced. Is she aware of the Chartered Institution of Water and Environmental Management report, which has said that
“this largely moves properties from a low risk to an even lower one”?
In other words, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has asked officials to achieve the maximum number instead of the most—
Amber Rudd
I am jealous of the time the hon. Gentleman is taking off me, and I will allow the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to respond on that point. I wish to make some progress, so that I can cover the interesting comments made by other Members.
With a global agreement, we signal to business that this is a definitive turning point. Business is crucial for delivering on our ambitions, as my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) ably set out. He was in Paris over the weekend, leading with GLOBE International, where he was accompanied and supported by my hon. Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Luke Hall). We know that in isolation, cuts to Britain’s own greenhouse gas emissions, which comprise just 1.2% of the global total, would do little to limit climate change. Our most important task therefore is to provide a compelling example to the rest of the world on how to cut carbon while controlling costs. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Callum McCaig) has many spending commitments to recommend to us, but no more. In a tight spending review, he should welcome at least the increase in the renewable heat incentive budget. We are committed to meeting the UK’s 2050 target. We are on track for our next two carbon budgets, and we will be setting out our plans for meeting the fourth and fifth carbon budgets next year. My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) questioned the fairness of the EU target of a 40% reduction by 2030, and I share his concern to ensure that it is fair. I can reassure him that we will be addressing that when we approach the effort sharing decisions next year.
We need to get the right balance between supporting new technologies and being tough on subsidies. When costs come down, as they have for wind and solar, so, too, should support. I share the enthusiasm of my hon. Friend the Member for Wells (James Heappey) for solar, but we will also always look after the bill payer. That is why I have announced that we will support and accelerate the cost reduction also being seen in offshore wind by making funding available for a further three auctions during this Parliament. That and other measures, such as supporting new nuclear and gas-fired power stations to provide a lower carbon base load, could provide us with the energy security we need to close unabated coal. We have also committed to double spending in clean energy research and development, so that by 2020 we will be spending in excess of £400 million. That is in recognition of the fact that we will tackle climate change only if we find technologies that are both clean and cheap.
National Pollinator Strategy
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(11 years, 7 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I suggest that Members speak for about eight minutes in order to get everybody in.
Zac Goldsmith
On the point about over-reliance on industry data, which we might call contaminated data, a piece was recently written in The Times by Lord Ridley. He claimed that the neonicotinoid ban means that 50% of oil seed rape crops have been devastated, because they have not been protected. However, figures released by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs only a few days ago show that the loss of yield is about 1.35%, which is well within the bounds of ordinary seasonal and annual fluctuations. That very clearly illustrates the danger of relying too much on industry data. Lord Ridley takes the industry or big business line on almost every issue, but I think we should be very cautious about attaching too much importance—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I think the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead) has got the message.
Dr Whitehead
The hon. Gentleman makes a strong point about the extent to which we need a better overview of the policy implications of the various elements in the research. I want to concentrate briefly on that point.
I remain concerned about not just the Environmental Audit Committee’s original inquiry and the Government response to it, but the latest Government response, which was published just two or three days ago, to the Committee’s second inquiry. The response is apparently very tentative about how far the Department is bound by the two-year moratorium on the use of neonicotinoids, and about whether the Department will consider simply reintroducing the use of neonicotinoids at the end of the moratorium.
Is the Department prepared at the very least to make time available for researchers to come up with much more definitive conclusions before it lifts the moratorium? I would prefer—there are caveats on the research, but it seems to me that overwhelming evidence for this is already available—for the Department, rather than considering what to do about neonicotinoids at the end of the moratorium, to go further than that and say, “That is it, as far as neonicotinoids are concerned. What we need to do for the substantial element of the national pollinator strategy is to get much clearer and better definitions of integrated pest management.”
In such a way, we could move from neonicotinoids to other forms of pest management that are more appropriate for the overall health of our pollinator population in the longer term. I must say that I am disappointed that the Government response lacks a definition of an integrated pest management scheme. For the final strategy, I urge the Minister to look again at a much better, more understandable and clearer definition of how integrated pest management might continue following the moratorium, so that we can move to a much more organic, less pesticide-intensive and certainly more modern ways of ensuring that our pollinators are protected as far as possible.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Three more Members wish to speak. I must tell them that I intend the Front-Bench speeches to begin at 4.40 pm.
Common Agricultural Policy
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(11 years, 11 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. May I suggest that we aim for around 10 minutes each? That way we will get everybody in nicely, including the Front Benchers.
Badger Cull
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Bill Wiggin
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. As DEFRA has not released its report, it would be demeaning to the House to have a Division on this issue. Is it your view that Mr Speaker’s ruling should be maintained—that is, that if a Member shouts, he should vote in the way that he shouts?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
You know very well, as I do, that if a Member shouts one way, they should not vote the other way, but they could abstain.
George Eustice
I want to say a little about what we have done to progress an oral vaccine. We are spending £1.6 million a year—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
That is not a matter for me, as the hon. Gentleman is well aware, but I am sure that his point will have been heard. [Interruption.] If the Minister wishes to respond, I am happy for him to do so.
George Eustice
I will respond, Mr Deputy Speaker, because obviously the shadow Minister has an issue with the fact that we have received the report. We have indeed received it, and we are considering it. It was not our decision when the report was delivered to us; an independent expert panel decided that. It was not our decision to have this debate, nor did we get involved in the decision of the Backbench Business Committee to have the debate today, and nor is it the role of Labour Members to dictate when the Government should publish the report. Let me be very clear: we have always been clear that we will publish the report and then, when we have made a decision—we have not made any decisions yet—[Interruption.] No, I am not going to confirm that there will be a vote. I have discussed and debated this many times, and I am sure we will have many opportunities to do so again in the future.
Miss McIntosh
Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We have had a very well-mannered, even-handed and good-tempered debate, and I regret that we have had what the record may prove to be a vote on very erroneous grounds indeed. I would like to refer to this point of order when we have the record of the vote.
Mr Deputy Speaker
I will be quite honest: I do not treat what you have said as a point of order. There is no record of the vote as yet, and we will have to wait and see.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. This is now the second time the House has debated this issue on a Back-Bench motion, with overwhelming votes to stop the cull. What good is it having debates in Parliament if the Government are wilfully staying out of the Lobby, not involving themselves in voting for the policy that they are pursuing in the country, and taking no notice whatsoever of votes of this House. Is not this making this House an irrelevance?
Mr Deputy Speaker
I can understand that frustration is being shown at this time, but I am not in a position to offer any more advice.
Paul Flynn
Further to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. You will be aware that this debate was followed by many thousands of people throughout the country who have shown great interest in it through their tweets and responses. Will they not regard it as an outrage when there is a vote of 219 to one and the Government decide to ignore it? Are they out to prove themselves to be the really nasty party?
Mr Deputy Speaker
That is also not a point of order. It is a matter for the Government when and if they wish to have a vote.
Managing Flood Risk
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(12 years, 3 months ago)
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Richard Benyon
I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I was not aware that there was a time limit and will race through my final remarks.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Just to help the hon. Gentleman, there is a voluntary time limit of about 10 minutes.
Richard Benyon
I will be as quick as I can, Mr Deputy Speaker.
My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton makes an important point. It is a matter of regret that we have not yet brought forward the sustainable drainage provisions, which were the subject of much discussion. I can assure her that I wish we had brought them forward sooner. When they are brought forward, they will make life much better. On the automatic right to connect, I am also on record as agreeing with her on many points.
My most important point today is that we should not look at England’s flood problems through the prism of one area’s hydrology—particularly that of the Somerset levels, which have a complex hydrology. Looking at the Somerset levels as one cohesive hydrological problem is a mistake: parts of them did not flood, or did not flood so badly this time, possibly because of actions that had been taken.
The most important thing we can do is listen to the experts. A very good report was published last week by the Chartered Institution for Water and Environmental Management. We do not use CIWEM enough; its 10,000 real experts are at the beck and call of the Government, the Opposition, companies and local authorities. They have produced a really important report. I brought it with me, but someone has nicked it. [Laughter.] That is what people get if they leave their papers in the House. The report is really good and I suggest that hon. Members read it if they have not done so already. It shows some of our difficulties in managing flood risk and the problems of dredging indiscriminately.
We all have experts in our constituencies. One of mine is Dick Greenaway, who was the surveyor for the Thames Conservancy but has now retired. He has fascinating knowledge of the history of flooding. After the 1947 floods, an enormous amount of dredging took place in the River Thames. A lot of the experts of the time said that it would not work and it was being done for political rather than proper hydrological reasons. The dredging was picking up bronze-age remains close to the surface of the river bed, showing that it had not changed for a long time. Dredging can cause more problems. Since we stopped dredging the Thames to any large degree, the base of the river has dropped because of the action of the river and the change in climate. We ignore people such as Dick Greenaway at our peril.
In conclusion, we should now turn our attention to land use. We have an enormous amount of work to do in joining up land use issues, common agricultural policy reform, the drainage activities of some landowners and land managers and our management of rivers in respect of the water framework directive or flood problems at a certain point or further downstream. Some of what I have seen around the country has been very damaging in terms of flood problems lower down. We have to address that.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. Mr Parish, you have got away with it once. I am not going to let it go twice.
Mr Stuart
I would like to say a few words on how my constituency has been affected. It was devastated in the 2007 floods. The impact on homes and businesses was far greater than it has been in the current floods, but, as others have said, flooding is devastating for every home and business. About 1,100 homes and businesses were flooded by the tidal surge in December that affected people around the Humber estuary. Whatever the cause, flooding has a tremendously strong effect.
I would like to praise the work of internal drainage boards in my area. The south Holderness internal drainage board undertook work to dredge Hedon Haven. Dredging needs to be done in the appropriate way and in the appropriate place—I can imagine dredging having a detrimental effect in the valleys mentioned by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant). The incredibly flat area of Holderness is effectively a man-made ecosystem. It is hard to see improved dredging, which would allow very slow-moving water to get out, leading to anything other than an improvement. It will not stop one-in-200-year flooding events having a negative effect, but it will make them last slightly less long with a less wide impact. Dredging also appeals to local people, who like to feel that those bits of the system that drain water away are kept in a state of usefulness.
One point I would like to make to the Minister is that when the Keyingham internal drainage board in my constituency was looking to carry out dredging at Stone Creek and Hedon Haven, the new Marine Management Organisation decided to charge it for a licence. We spent years pulling all the pools and the political will together to get the sign off to allow us to dredge and let the water out, but what happened? This glorified new quango came along and sent in a suggested bill for thousands of pounds to grant a licence, even though the Environment Agency, when it had done similar work elsewhere, had not charged anything. The MMO decided that it had to do so much more work it ended up charging £10,000 for that one bit of dredging. Will the Minister please ensure that quangos do not inflict charges that stop local people doing what is necessary to make sure that things are more sensibly managed?
After 2007, there was a good response from people who had, up until that point, not performed as well as they should; whether that was Yorkshire Water, the Environment Agency or the council. In our area, people did not know who owned the pumps, let alone whether they were responsible for keeping them going, but since 2007 they have worked together. In front of Willow Grove in Beverley, Yorkshire Water has done a great deal of work, and the local council then came in and worked closely with local residents. In 2007, a very beautiful row of houses was famously pictured all flooded. The picture went out around the world. A flood wall has now been erected in front of those homes, trees have been planted and the Westwood area has been restored. Local ownership really can work and we need to ensure we keep it that way.
We need to ensure that we have as broad an understanding as possible of catchments and their impact. That is why all the agencies involved—the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) who is in his place, Members of the European Parliament, Hull city council, East Riding council—supported setting up the River Hull Advisory Board, which I chair. The Environment Agency and others have supported finding the funding to try to have better modelling of the River Hull catchment, so that we can ensure the effective protection of agricultural land—which deserves consideration—rural areas and the urban areas in Hull. The truth is that we are all in it together and we need to ensure that we have a coherent and cohesive approach that works. I pay tribute to all the agencies that have worked together on the River Hull Advisory Board. We really are taking forward a better understanding and a better policy for the future.
Rural Communities
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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David Rutley
I am a little disturbed by the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Given that so many members of the public from and residents of Macclesfield and Cheshire visit Anglesey, would it not be entirely appropriate for him to come to Macclesfield and enjoy the Cheshire Peak district rather than travel even further to the Yorkshire dales?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Let us not concentrate too much on which is the best holiday destination, because we know it is Lancashire and the Lake district.
Albert Owen
I would welcome people from Lancashire, the Lake district and other areas to debate that question in my constituency.
I am very proud of my constituency and that it is both rural and urban and that there is interdependency between both communities. When we talk about rural communities, we need to point out the interdependency between them and nearby large market towns, villages and larger conurbations. The new A55 means that Lancashire is very close to north Wales. We need that connectivity with other parts of the United Kingdom.
Many rightly say that people choose to live in a rural area, but the challenges mentioned by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton often lead to many people choosing to leave rural areas due to a lack of work opportunities and facilities. I say genuinely to the Minister that it is a challenge to us all and to all governments—local government, the Welsh Government and the UK Government—to work with the European Union and others to ensure that we get the balance right between industry and tourism. It is not a question of either/or—we can have both. Rural areas can have quality industrial jobs alongside farming and food production and tourism. That is the challenge for us all and I appreciate the way in which the hon. Lady and her Committee have shadowed the Department.
I am at a slight disadvantage because, although I have read the report, I have not read the Government’s response to it. I shall do so after this debate, because some of the issues raised by the hon. Lady are disturbing and I wish that the Government would look more positively at some of the recommendations. We need to get the balance right.
Depopulation is one of the big issues. When an area loses many people, capital grants are reduced and that makes it even more difficult to sustain and regenerate local communities. In the 1980s and 1990s, our county—which is coterminous with my constituency—was the only one to lose population during the two census periods from 1981 to 2001. We lost a lot of talent and a lot of families who had been there for many years. Economic decline is an issue in rural and periphery areas. We have the double whammy of being on the periphery, which has made it very difficult for people to travel to visit in the past. I am pleased with the great improvement in road and rail infrastructure, but a lot more needs to be done to help areas on the periphery such as north-west Wales and Anglesey.
I want to concentrate on an issue that the hon. Lady and her Committee have not addressed on this occasion: energy. I also want to discuss tourism, farming and food and infrastructure, but energy is rightly a dominant issue for debate. As a member of the Energy and Climate Change Committee, I have raised many of these issues for some time.
My area—the facts and statistics bear this out—is a net producer of energy and a net generator of electricity. Wales as a country is a net producer of energy and a net generator of electricity, but it is also a huge, main hub for imported gas. Areas of west and north-west Wales, Pembrokeshire and various other areas actually supply a lot of the United Kingdom with its energy, electricity and liquefied petroleum gas imports, and yet we pay some of the highest electricity prices in the country, which is hugely unfair. Much of that—I raised this issue during business questions and have raised it for many years—is due to the energy market’s failure to provide a level playing field for the distribution and transmission of electricity, particularly to rural areas. We produce the bulk of the energy, yet we have to pay more for it. I hope the Government will look seriously at that issue.
We have highlighted the problems with power outage in rural areas, some of which are blighted by power transmission lines running through their communities. The figures clearly show that households and businesses in north-west and south Wales are paying higher prices for their energy. I stress that businesses are paying more as well. As Members throughout the House will know, energy costs are one of the biggest factors for businesses. Their margins are squeezed in very difficult and austere times and, on top of that, high energy costs are having a huge negative impact on rural communities.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
May I just say that nine hon. Members are due to speak? I will not impose a time limit, but they should bear in mind how long they take.
Water Bill
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 7—National affordability scheme—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must, by order, introduce a National Affordability Scheme for water.
(2) The National Affordability Scheme must include an eligibility criteria, determined by the Secretary of State, in consultation with—
(a) the Water Services Regulation Authority; and
(b) the Consumer Council for Water.
(3) An order under this section—
(a) shall be made by statutory instrument; and
(b) may not be made unless a draft of the order has been laid before and approved by resolution of each House of Parliament.’.
New clause 8—Billing information: affordability—
‘Any company providing water services to a residential household must include on its bills—
(a) details of any tariffs provided by that company;
(b) a recommendation of the lowest possible tariff for each residential household; and
(c) information regarding eligibility criteria and how to make an application for assistance under Water Sure.’.
New clause 9—Provision of information to water companies: landlords—
‘(1) The Water Industry Act 1991 is amended as follows.
(2) After section 207 (Provision of false information) there is inserted—
“Provision of information to water companies: landlords
Where a water company does not have information about a resident in a property that is using water, if the occupants of that property are tenants, the landlord must, on request, provide to the water company contact details for the tenants.”.’.
New clause 10—Water companies: recovery of losses—
‘(1) The Secretary of State, or the Authority, may prohibit losses to a water company due to non-payment of bills from being recovered through charges on customers.
(2) This section comes into force on the day after the Secretary of State has laid before Parliament a report setting out how water companies have failed to take action on these matters,’,
Amendment 9, in clause 80, page 124, line 1, at end insert—
‘(e) section [Provision of benefits information].’.
Miss McIntosh
I wish to consider new clause 3 and amendment 9, which seek to address legislation already on the statute books in the Flood and Water Management Act 2010. I remind the House that the cost of bad debt to each household in England is approximately £15 per annum, and in times of great hardship and a period of austerity, which the Government are dealing with through the actions we continue to take, it is incumbent on the Government to consider every opportunity to defray the costs to each household in that regard.
New clause 3 seeks to provide benefits information by allowing the Secretary of State to regulate to
“make provision about the disclosure of benefits information about occupiers”
to water and sewerage companies in connection with the revised part of the Water Industry Act 1991. It goes on to state that
“‘benefits information’ means information which is held for benefit entitlement purposes by the Department for Work and Pensions.”
Amendment 9 would make the consequential change to the current clause 80, to allow the provision of benefits information. I sat where the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) is currently sitting and followed the passage of the Flood and Water Management Bill as closely as he is following the passage of this Bill. I have been very taken with the idea of trying to reduce bad debt in this way. Recently, I was most fortunate to receive a written answer from the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), who helpfully told me that at present the legislation does not permit the transfer and provision of benefits information by the Department for Work and Pensions in the way I wish. He did not say it could not be done; he said only that the current law does not permit it. We are where we are.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: new clause 5 —Abstraction reform—
‘(1) The Secretary of State shall by regulations make provision to introduce a reformed abstraction regime.
(2) An abstraction regime under subsection (1) must—
(a) be resilient to the challenges of climate change;
(b) be resilient to the challenges of population growth; and
(c) better protect the environment.
(3) An abstraction regime must be introduced no later than the end of the period of seven years beginning with the date on which this Act is passed.
(4) Regulations under this section—
(a) shall be made by statutory instrument; and
(b) may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before and approved by a resolution of both Houses of Parliament.’.
New clause 6—Onshore oil or gas activities—effect on water environment—
‘In Part 1 of Schedule 5 of the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2010 there shall be inserted after paragraph 13 the following—
“Onshore oil or gas activities—effect on water environment
13A (1) Without prejudice to the operation of Regulation 35(2) and paragraph 5(1)(d) of Schedule 10 and of Regulation 35(2) and paragraph 7(j) of Schedule 20, the regulator shall refuse an application for the grant or variation of an environmental permit or for the transfer in whole or in part of an environmental permit if—
(a) the regulated facility to which the application for or transfer of the environmental permit relates is to be carried on as part of an onshore oil or gas activity; and
(b) the regulator is not satisfied that the applicant or the proposed transferee has made or will make adequate financial provision for preventing or mitigating pollution of the water environment, by ensuring all of the following—
(i) operation of the regulated facility in accordance with the environmental permit;
(ii) compliance with any enforcement notice or suspension notice or prohibition notice or mining waste facility closure notice or landfill closure notice which may be served on the applicant or transferee by the regulator under these Regulations;
(iii) compliance with any order of the High Court which may be obtained against the applicant or transferee under Regulation 42 for the purpose of securing compliance with any of the notices listed in sub-paragraph (ii).
(iv) compliance with any order of any court issued under Regulation 44 against the applicant or transferee; and
(v) recovery by the regulator of its costs upon any exercise of its power against the applicant or transferee under Regulation 57;
(c) for the purpose of this paragraph ‘onshore oil or gas activity’ means any activity for the purpose of exploration for or extraction of onshore oil and gas;
(d) for the purpose of this paragraph ‘adequate provision by way of financial security’ means financial provision which is sufficient in value, secure and available when required.”.’.
New clause 13—Unlawful communications—
‘(1) Section 109 of the Water Industry Act 1991 (sewerage: unlawful communication with public sewer) is amended as follows.
(2) Omit subsection (1)(b).
(3) In subsection (2)(a) after “close”, insert “or redirect”.
(4) In subsection (2)(b) omit “from the offender”.
(5) At the end add—
“(4) The expenses are recoverable from—
(a) the offender; or
(b) the owner of the drain or sewer.
(5) A person who obstructs a sewerage undertaker in exercising a power under subsection (2)(a)—
(a) commits an offence; and
(b) is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.”.’.
Amendment 2, in clause 21, page 62, line 19, after ‘undertakers’, insert ‘and highway authorities’.
Amendment 3, page 62, line 22, after ‘undertaker’, insert ‘or a highway authority’.
Amendment 1, page 62, line 23, at end insert—
‘(2A) Highways authorities must include in schemes for the construction of new roads, drainage systems with a specification designed to decrease the risk of flooding of public sewerage systems.’.
Government amendments 55 to 57.
Amendment 5, clause 51, page 107, line 5, after ‘premises’, insert ‘and small businesses’.
Amendment 6, page 107, line 7, after ‘premises’, insert ‘and small businesses’.
Amendment 8, clause 53, page 107, line 37, after ‘made’, insert
‘which shall include the occurrence of a 1 in 200 year loss scenario’.
Government amendment 58.
Amendment 7, clause 69, page 119, line 37, at end insert ‘“small businesses”.’.
Amendment 10, clause 80, page 124, line 1, at end insert—
‘(f) section [Sustainable drainage and automatic right to connect].’.
Amendment 11, page 124, line 1, at end insert—
‘(g) section [Abstraction reform].’.
Miss McIntosh
I shall try to keep my remarks brief, but this is the first occasion that I can remember when there has not been a parliamentary week between the completion of the business of the Public Bill Committee and consideration on Report and Third Reading. I should therefore like to pass on my thanks not only to the Committee staff who have accommodated our being able to table amendments in a timely fashion, but to all those involved in the House service who have enabled us to have amendments before us to debate this evening.
I shall go through the new clauses and amendments first and then give the reasons for them. I, along with a number of members of the EFRA Committee, have thought it fit to assist the Government yet again, and I hope that we have more success with this round. Anyone who knows me even remotely will know that I am becoming a compulsive obsessive on sustainable draining systems and that I will never pass over an opportunity to discuss SUDS. So, under new clause 4, we seek to introduce the sustainable draining system, which is woefully late. It was already given statutory powers under the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, and in new clause 4 I link that to the end of the automatic right to connect.
I should like to pay tribute to a great Yorkshireman, Sir Michael Pitt, who after the surface water flooding of 2007 attempted to get on to the statute book under the 2010 Act—the then Government’s legislation—the end of the automatic right to connect. I would go further with substantial developments than I have had the opportunity to do here. I should personally like Yorkshire Water and other water companies, as well as drainage boards, to be given the right to be statutory consultees on major new developments on the same basis as that enjoyed by the Environment Agency following the 2010 Act.
Miss McIntosh
As a non-practising Scottish advocate, I would always say that the Scottish legal system has a great deal to commend it, but Scotland needs to remain part of the United Kingdom to allow us to benefit from that.
Miss McIntosh
Indeed, that is a different argument.
I shall give our reasons for new clause 4 in a moment. Abstraction reform forms the basis of new clause 5, in which we would return to what was in the White Paper, where the Government waxed lyrical on abstraction regimes. We particularly call for the abstraction regime to be introduced no later than the end of the period of seven years beginning on the date on which the Bill is passed and comes into legal effect.
Amendments 2 and 3 would insert into clause 21 the relevant language of “undertakers” and “highways authorities”. I am attracted to amendment 1, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer), and look forward to his speaking to it in due course. Amendments 5, 6, 7 and 8 would include small businesses in the flood reinsurance scheme, for reasons that I shall give in a moment.
Fishing Industry
Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr MacNeil
The hon. Gentleman said that we needed to establish whether the fishing of endangered stock was targeted or non-targeted. I know that during the autumn at least one boat contained 400 boxes, and I am sure that all the other boats have done the same. That should serve as a guide to civil servants and scientists who are formulating some sort of policy.
The one thing that fishermen do not want to do is go on a fishing trip and load their boats with fish that have zero value. They do not want to steam out, fill their boxes with fish that they did not intend to catch, do not want and cannot sell, and then have to steam back and land them on a pier. That is the worst of all worlds for a fisherman.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We need short interventions. There is a danger of Members’ trying to make speeches by means of interventions, which worries me. Six more Back Benchers and two Front Benchers have yet to speak. I do not want to have to impose a time limit, but it is looking likely.
Andrew George
I accept your strictures, Mr Deputy Speaker. We could, of course, extend the debate to the relative merits of quota and area management, but I will simply say that, in my view, area and seasonal management and a more effective use of closed areas are a better way of controlling and protecting fish stocks than quotas.
Let me end by making a couple of brief points. My hon. Friend the Minister knows that in Cornwall we have drawn attention to the potential risks to our crab fishery, particularly in the over-15 metre sector. One of the problems of the way in which the industry is managed is that requests for significant cuts in the catch are often given at very short notice. Much more planning is needed if we are to avoid shocks of that kind.
I also want to raise the issue of the six and 12-mile limits. I know that my hon. Friend has a reputation, indeed a pedigree, for being strongly anti-European, and I hope that I can draw something out of his anti-European-ness. I am talking about simply batting for Britain. Let us all join forces, and agree that whether we are engaging with Europe positively and constructively or negatively, what we want is the best deal for Britain. It is clear that most of the foreign boats that are taking advantage of access within the 12-mile zone and up to the six-mile zone are new, and were not around at the time of their historic entitlement. I urge my hon. Friend to scrutinise the impact that they are having very close to our coasts. I also ask him to think about the point that we have reached in the negotiations on the setting of marine conservation zones, which lie both within and outside the six to 12-mile zone. We need to ensure that we apply the same rules to both foreign and British vessels.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. Unfortunately, I am going to have to put an eight-minute limit on speeches. I do not want to have to bring it down further, but a lot of the time has been taken by others.