Post Office Card Account

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Tuesday 16th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

I am grateful to the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee. We have not added features to the Post Office card account because, for example, adding direct debit means that the credit check threshold suddenly gets much more serious. Instinctively, I am with the hon. Lady on this. My approach would have been that the POCA is a good thing, so why should we not add nice things to it? We have not upgraded it, however, because one of its attractions is that people who have poor credit histories or who would struggle with some of the identity checks can be enabled to access it. In developing universal credit, my right hon. Friend the Work and Pensions Secretary is working with local authorities and the banking industry to look at different sorts of accounts, including, as the hon. Lady suggests, budgeting accounts. The basic bank accounts that were improved yesterday will be part of a suite. We intend that there should be the right sort of accounts for the right people.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

I am delighted by today’s news that the Post Office will be able to serve customers using the new POCA well into the future. As the Minister said, that will enable the Government to achieve their commitment to protecting the post office network, unlike the previous Labour Government, who closed thousands of branches in every single constituency across the entire country. How many customers does he estimate will access the new accounts, which will bring trade into these post office branches, and how many are unable to access bank accounts at the moment?

[Steve Webb]

I am grateful for the work that my hon. Friend has done on this. As she will recall, we met to discuss how we could deliver this contract when she was postal services Minister. About 4,000 people in her Cardiff constituency currently have Post Office card accounts, and they will welcome this announcement. She is right that we have to work out how we can develop and expand this in future. We are trying to make sure that we have the right accounts for the right people. The number of pensioners with these accounts will gradually decline. For people of working age, we want, where possible, financial inclusion and transactional accounts. Many people with POCAs do have other bank accounts—for various reasons, they hold both—but we will make sure that the most vulnerable people have access to their money at the post office.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Monday 8th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Pensions (Steve Webb)]

As the hon. Gentleman appreciates, the letters are sent by HMRC on behalf of the Treasury, and he is welcome to address his concern to our colleagues there. However, we clearly appreciate that there is a distinction between social security benefits and pensions paid to public servants in retirement.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

T9. We have heard today about the use of food banks, and the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) mentioned a recent report from the Church of England, the Child Poverty Action Group, Oxfam and the Trussell Trust that highlighted the problems that arise when those who have been sanctioned lose all their benefits, including housing benefit. I understand that the Department for Work and Pensions is working on a fix to prevent housing benefit from being stopped when a claimant is sanctioned, but while that is being worked on, will the Minister consider sanctioning all but, say, 10p of jobseeker’s allowance or employment and support allowance now so that other benefits are not automatically cancelled and claimants do not need to use a food bank and end up in rent arrears while they are being sanctioned?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

I take all these reports seriously, and this one particularly. It is of huge interest. We want to do everything we can to make sure that people do not stumble into a process of sanctions. I am certainly willing to consider what the hon. Lady says, but the big thing that the Oakley review told us is that communications were critical, so advising claimants all the way along that they are about to be caught in this trap is vital to making sure that they do not get caught.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Thursday 13th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)]

2. What assessment she has made of the effect of Government policies on occupational gender segregation.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities (Jenny Willott)]

We asked the Women’s Business Council to look at how we could tackle the barriers women face in the workplace and when choosing a career. It published its recommendations in June last year, and we are working closely with businesses and across Government to turn them into reality.

[Bridget Phillipson]

It is worrying that the number of female apprentices has dropped, and much more needs to be done to attract women into traditionally male-dominated sectors, such as engineering and manufacturing. When will we see some progress from the Government on that?

[Jenny Willott]

The Government are very proud of our record on apprentices. Over this Parliament we are funding a quarter of a million more apprenticeship places. In fact, more girls and women are taking up these opportunities than boys and men, particularly at the higher levels, where over 60% of apprentices are women. There is an issue with the proportion of women taking up more traditionally male apprenticeships, which is something I will be taking up with the Minister for Skills and Enterprise, my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock).

Women in Public Life

[Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)]

4. What initiatives she has taken to enhance opportunities for women in public life.

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[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

5. What steps she is taking to support women in work.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities (Jenny Willott)]

There are record numbers of women in work and we are taking strong action to support them, including by extending the right to request flexible working from June this year, introducing a new system of shared parental leave from next April, and supporting families through the new tax-free child care scheme from next October.

[Chi Onwurah]

For international women’s day last Friday, we held a What Women Want at Work event in Westgate community college. Women from across the constituency raised many issues, including zero-hours contracts, sexism, stereotypes and the minimum wage, but the No. 1 issue was child care and how it prevented mums from going to work and those in work from having children. Will the Minister now back Labour’s pledge to increase free child care for three and four-year-olds to 25 hours?

[Jenny Willott]

This Government have done a huge amount to improve the child care situation for women in work. We have increased the number of hours that are available free for three and four-year-olds and extended that to more deprived two-year-olds. Under universal credit, we will increase the amount that is refunded for recipients of child care tax credit from 70% to 85%. As I said, from next year we are introducing tax-free child care for parents of children under the age of 12. We are also increasing the number of child care places, and this is having an impact. For example, the cost of child care, particularly after-school child care, is starting to come down in England.

[Mrs Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con)]

7. The renaissance in manufacturing, particularly in the car industry, means that there is a skills shortage that could be reduced if more women chose that career path. Will the Minister encourage other companies to act like Jaguar Land Rover, going into secondary and primary schools to advocate such career paths?

[Jenny Willott]

The right hon. Lady is right. This is very important. The Government are doing quite a lot of work to try to encourage the number of women going into science, technology, engineering and maths. The Government have a project with the Royal Society on diversity in STEM and we are supporting a scheme of STEM ambassadors going into schools to encourage people to take up those subjects. Of the 25,000 ambassadors, 40% are women and 10% are from ethnic minorities, so the Government are doing as much as they can to try to increase the number of women in these areas.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

8. What discussions she has had with her overseas counterparts on steps to promote the role of women in work internationally.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Jenny Willott)]

We participate in the EU presidency Gender Ministers meetings, which enables us to discuss all the goals in the Europe 2020 strategy and the Beijing platform for action, including women’s employment.

Only yesterday, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities spoke at an international event at the Commission on the Status of Women, organised with the Tanzanian Minister of Equalities, specifically to promote women working in the science, technology, engineering and maths industries.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Although I agree with the Financial Secretary that appointments should be made on merit, does the Minister agree that City regulators’ record on appointing high-calibre women is pathetic, and that if they were to identify those women, that would go a long way to promoting women in work internationally and they would be very good role models?

[Jenny Willott]

The hon. Lady is quite right. We definitely need to increase the number of women in senior roles, not only in the City and financial institutions but across the country more generally. This Government have done a huge amount of work with Lord Davies to increase the number of women on boards and we are starting to see a significant increase in the number of women in those positions. At the beginning of this Parliament, the figure was 12.5%; it is now more than 20% and we are on target to hit 25% by next year. I agree with the hon. Lady, however, that this is an important issue that we need to tackle.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

5. What steps she is taking to increase child care provision to help women in their careers.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities (Jenny Willott)]

The Government want parents to be able to access affordable child care so that they can afford to work while knowing their child is in a safe and stimulating environment. The Department for Culture Media and Sport provides grants to those wishing to set up a new child care business and the Department for Education is increasing child care provision by: simplifying the rules so nurseries can expand more easily; enabling good and outstanding childminders to access Government funding for early years places to make care cheaper for parents; and legislating to create childminder agencies to give parents and childminders more choice.

[Alex Cunningham]

With local authorities reporting that the number of breakfast and after-school clubs is deteriorating fast, will the Minister back Labour’s proposals to guarantee them specific funding in the future?

[Jenny Willott]

As I understand it, there are 500 more after-school clubs than there were at the time of the last election, which is a 5% increase over the past couple of years. The Department for Education is working extremely closely with schools to encourage the increase of breakfast clubs, wraparound care and after-school clubs as they make it far easier for a large number of parents to work while their children are in a safe and protected environment.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

As a working mother under the previous Government, I was painfully aware of how child care costs became the most expensive in Europe. Does the Minister agree that the Government’s introduction of tax-free child care really helps working parents get the affordable quality child care they need?

[Jenny Willott]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is not the only thing the Government have done to ensure that child care is affordable. By increasing the number of hours of free Government-funded child care to which three and four-year olds are entitled, parents are saving nearly £400 a year more. Furthermore, by introducing extra free child care for disadvantaged two-year-olds, parents save £2,400 a year, which makes a significant difference to the families of some of the most deprived young children.

[Mr Speaker]

Order.

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[Mrs Hodgson]

I am very grateful to you, Mr Speaker. Since the last election, the cost of nursery places has risen five times faster than pay, and there are 35,000 fewer child care places. Given that so many women are forced out of work because of unaffordable child care, will the Minister back our plans to provide 25 hours of child care for all three and four-year-olds of working parents?

[Jenny Willott]

I do not recognise the figures highlighted by the hon. Lady. The latest figures from the Department for Education show that there are 100,000 more child care places. According to the latest figures, there were 2 million child care places in 2011, which was a 5% increase on 2009, so the number of child care places has increased. As the mother of two young children, I totally appreciate that the cost of child care can be an excessive burden on families. However, the Government have done a lot to offer support and are doing more with the offer of tax-free child care from next year, which will make a significant difference to the amount that parents have to pay for their child care.

Royal Assent

[Mr Speaker]

I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that the Queen has signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts:

Mesothelioma Act 2014

Local Audit and Accountability Act 2014

European Union (Approvals) Act 2014

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014

Hertfordshire County Council (Filming on Highways) Act 2014.

Welfare Reform Bill

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Wednesday 1st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Dame Anne Begg]

At present, those on incapacity benefit—the existing benefit, which the Government are to replace—who have made the necessary national insurance contributions will keep that benefit until they return to work. Is the hon. Gentleman saying the costing should be done on any other basis? Obviously, the reason the Government are introducing the time limit is to save money: there can be no other reason, as the hon. Gentleman has effectively admitted. This is the result of a money-saving decision by the Government. It is not about being fair; it is about saving money to deal with the debt and the deficit, which were not caused by the people—and their partners, wives and husbands—who have tried throughout their lives to do the right thing.

I am conscious of the time, but I now want to say something about the youth rate. When I intervened on the Minister, I was genuinely trying to obtain some clarification, but I have ended up even more confused than before about how the youth rate will work and which groups of young people will no longer receive an independent—that word is important—income replacement benefit. They may receive non-means-tested benefits and, for instance, disability living allowance or the new personal independence payment, but they will not have any income.

Let me give an example of someone I think will be caught by that, someone who came to my constituency office a number of years ago. He was a young lad of 20 who had been in work for six months when he was diagnosed with a virulent condition. I cannot remember what it was, but it meant that he would be unlikely to work again, and indeed his condition was going to deteriorate. This young man lived with his girlfriend, who earned about £15,000 or £16,000 a year, just over the income support level. Under the measures proposed by the Government, he would not qualify for any income at all. He would be wholly dependent on his girlfriend, and the household income would consist only of her income. That does not strike me as right, and it does not strike me as fair. I should be grateful if, before we vote on the amendment, the Minister would tell us exactly which group of people will lose out as a result of the abolition of the contributory youth rate.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

Does the hon. Lady accept that that young man would probably qualify for disability living allowance? He would therefore have some income, even if he did not receive means-tested ESA.

[Dame Anne Begg]

The household might possibly get housing benefit, but that goes on paying the rent. The young man might get disability living allowance, but that is paid because he has extra expenses due to his disability. What he does not have is an income. He has no money to go to the pub for a pint, to buy clothes, or to do anything that the rest of us, disabled or not, take for granted. He has no independent income. It is totally different if someone is out of work and unemployed. I am disappointed that those on the Government Benches cannot see that distinction, and cannot see that those who are long-term ill or disabled, and who have no prospect of improving their financial circumstances themselves because of the level of their disability, are being penalised by the Government. That is partly why I most certainly will support the Lords amendments this afternoon, and I encourage right hon. and hon. Members to do so, too.

[Jenny Willott]

Returning to the issue of the time-limited employment and support allowance, there is real concern about an arbitrary time limit. As was kindly pointed out by the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), at a party conference the Liberal Democrats showed their concern by passing a motion against arbitrary time limits. However, the amendment from the Lords and the Government’s original proposal both set arbitrary time limits; it is just that one is longer than the other. Neither of the options in front of us would get rid of an arbitrary time limit, as a number of Members have highlighted.

One way to make the system less arbitrary is to ensure that people are in the right category in the first place, with those in the greatest need in the support group, so that they are not affected by a time limit. My colleagues and I have looked long and hard at the issue, and the important thing is to get the assessment right in the first place and make sure that people are in the right category, as those in the support group are exempt from the time limit. We need to make sure that people who need long-term, indefinite support are in the support group and can get that. That is a more effective way to protect those who need the most help than changing one arbitrary time limit for another.

[Dr Whiteford]

I share the hon. Lady’s concern about getting the test right in the first place, but is she confident that the work capability assessment is working as it should?

[Jenny Willott]

I was going to come on to that. If the hon. Lady will bear with me, I will hopefully answer her question.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making many interesting points. Does she agree that when a person has a degenerative illnesses such as multiple sclerosis, their condition may change during any finite period, so it is important to emphasise that people can be reassessed and put into the support group if their condition deteriorates?

[Jenny Willott]

The hon. Lady is right, and many conditions get worse at varying rates—very slowly for some people, and very quickly for others. It is important to make sure that people get the benefit that they should, and that the assessment is right, as the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) said.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jenny Willott]

I will make some progress, because I have hardly said anything yet, and I am being intervened on left, right, and centre.

The Harrington process is critical to getting the assessment right. I welcome the work that has been done looking specifically at cancer patients, which will ensure that the vast majority go into the support group. That is the right way forward. I also welcome the fact that Professor Harrington is looking at how we assess chronic pain and fatigue, because in many chronic, long-term conditions—particularly fluctuating conditions—those are the elements that cause people most difficulty in thinking about returning to work, and the elements that, at the moment, the work capability assessment is not very good at identifying and reflecting. I really hope that Ministers will implement whatever recommendations Professor Harrington makes on those issues; on past experience, his recommendations have been sensible and have made a significant difference to the assessment.

On the point made by the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan, there is evidence that the system is improving. I looked earlier today at the latest figures on the outcome of the work capability assessments, which I found quite reassuring when it comes to the Bill. We have to treat the figures with caution, but they show that initially, following the work capability assessment, more people are going into the support group than the work-related activity group. That is a crucial point. If we are getting the assessment right, and more people are going into the support group in the first place, the time-limit for people in the work-related activity group becomes less of an issue, because the people who need the most care are getting support indefinitely.

[Dr Whiteford]

My concern remains that far too many people are having to appeal against their work capability assessment result, and those appeals are overturning the original decision, so the system really is not working as well as it should.

[Jenny Willott]

I understand the hon. Lady’s concern, and the issue has been raised over a number of years by those on both sides of the House.

[Chris Grayling]

It is important that we put it on record for the House once again that, possibly with a tiny number of exceptions, no appeals have yet been completed following the introduction of the Harrington reforms. Every appeal that has been discussed up to now took place under the system that we inherited, rather than since we changed the system last summer.

[Jenny Willott]

I am grateful to the Minister, and I hope that when the figures flow through on appeals that have taken place under the new system, we see a reduction in the number of decisions overturned, and in the number of people who go to appeal. That would suggest that the assessment was working properly.

If we make sure that the assessment works properly, it will reduce the arbitrariness of the timetable, but as the Minister mentioned in an intervention on the Opposition spokesman, the right hon. Member for East Ham, it is important that we recognise that many people will receive six months’ statutory sick pay before they go on to the ESA, so they will be receiving benefits for 18 months. It is important that the Government continue the work that is being done to look at ensuring that employers work with staff when they become disabled or fall sick, and do not immediately push them on to ESA. Instead, employees should get the support that they need, possibly to stay in work over an extended period, and get their full entitlement to statutory sick pay and ESA, so that they get the full 18 months’ support to which many of them will be entitled.

[Stephen Timms]

The hon. Lady set out the fact that there was objection at her party conference to an arbitrary time limit. Does she accept the case for setting the limit, whatever it should be, in regulations instead of in the Bill? Putting it in the Bill means that it will take another Act of Parliament to change it in future.

[Jenny Willott]

There needs to be some stability, so that people know what to expect. One of the problems with putting that type of provision in regulations is that it becomes very difficult for people to know what they can expect. That creates uncertainty, which makes it more difficult for people to cope.

To return to the point made by the hon. Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin) about people with deteriorating conditions, I welcome the concession that the Government made in the Lords. It is important that people with MS, motor neurone disease, Parkinson’s and so on get ongoing support when they really need it. That is definitely a step forward.

I still have some concerns about work incentives and the means test. A person does not get means-tested ESA if their partner has a low level of income. If the partner worked 24 hours a week on the minimum wage, that would be a household income of £145 a week. However, as people would get increased housing benefit, council tax benefit and so on, the drop in income for that household when the sick or disabled person no longer received ESA would be significantly less than the scare stories are leading people to believe. I also appreciate that when universal credit is introduced, that will be far less of an issue, because the income disregard for households in which there is someone with a disability will be set much higher, at £140 a week. In the future, under universal credit, a household with an income of £140 a week will get the whole of their income and the full universal credit on top of that, so this is mainly an issue for the 18 months between the introduction of the policy that we are discussing and the introduction of the universal credit in October 2013.

I would be grateful if the Minister, if he gets the chance to sum up at the end of the debate, would say whether anything can be done to bridge that gap. For example, we could look at making sure that people in that category are among the first to be moved on to universal credit, so that we can ensure that the period in which they lose out on income is as short as possible. In addition, the DWP impact assessment says that it is likely to cost £30 million in increased benefit payments as the partners of those affected leave work. I would be grateful if the Minister could consider whether there is anything that could be done to reduce that amount of money by considering the effect on such households.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jenny Willott]

I will not give way any more, because quite a number of people want to speak and we have only half an hour left.

There are still issues about the time limiting of ESA, although many of them will be resolved when the universal credit is introduced. I believe that the Government have been making good progress on improving the assessment process, which is critical to making the system work. I hope that the Minister gets the opportunity—even if only through interventions—to respond positively to some of the points that I have raised.

[Mr Winnick]

This is indeed a grubby and obnoxious measure, but I have no doubt that at 2.30 pm, the Government will carry the day. I sat on the Government Benches for 13 years, and in the unlikely event that my Government had introduced such a measure, I would not have hesitated to vote against it, as I did on other motions on one or two occasions—although not many. I would not have expected my Government to propose such a measure, and I am pleased that we are opposing it. In essence, we are debating a 12-month limit—if the Lords amendments are defeated, as I expect they will be—for those with cancer and other life-threatening illnesses in the work-related activity group of the employment and support allowance. After 12 months, most of them will be means-tested. Some Government Members will ask why such a means tests should not be imposed, but let us be clear, so that when hon. Members vote in half an hour they know what they are voting on: a claimant in the category that I have mentioned whose partner works for more than 24 hours or earns £149 weekly—£149, not £249 or £549—could lose all their benefit. I wonder how many Government Members, who seem so keen on the proposal, could justify that in their constituencies. I certainly could not and would not wish to try.

As has been stated, Macmillan Cancer Support believes that 7,000 cancer patients will be adversely affected by the proposal. The Government’s own figures show that 94% of people with cancer who are placed in the group that I have mentioned need ESA for longer than 12 months. That is not disputed—if it is, the Minister will intervene. I repeat: the Government’s own statistics show that 94% of such people require that support for longer than 12 months.

This is not just about cancer patients. Let me quote a piece written by someone who has a rare bone disease. He is 50 years old and has spent more than three years in hospitals, trying to recover. He is not in a position to take employment, and that is not disputed. He says that he paid national insurance contributions all his life, until his illness, and he gets £89 a week through ESA. He writes that it

“isn’t a big sum…but it makes a huge difference for me. Among other everyday essentials it pays for the heating to keep me warm during the long and often painful days at home while my partner is out at work.”

Not an extravagant sum, is it? We are not being over-indulgent to someone who worked until he had that terrible disease and wants to try to make the best of his life in such circumstances. He says—[Interruption.] I hope the Minister is listening—he smiles.

--- Later in debate ---

My view is simply that the cap is unnecessary and based on prejudice and political posturing. In past debates in the House, there have also been discussions about cutting the cost of welfare. There was one quote about benefits being an incitement to idleness. Such expressions were used in the debates about the poor law and eventually led to policies of less eligibility and the workhouse. We do not seem to have learned anything in two centuries about poverty and how to tackle it.

[Jenny Willott]

I have made clear my view on the total benefits cap a number of times already in the House, but I take this opportunity to highlight again that Liberal Democrat Members support the principle of a cap and the important message that it sends out that it has to be better for people to be in work than on benefits.

It is also important to exempt those in the support group of employment and support allowance and those who receive disability living allowance. We do not expect those people to work and it would be inappropriate to apply a cap to them, so I welcome the move announced earlier today. I also welcome the package of transitional measures that the Government have announced—in particular, the grace period to protect those who fall out of work. The Government’s grace period of nine months, announced today, is more generous than the six-month period that Labour proposed and was discussed in the other place. I believe that nine months is the right period of time to allow people a chance to get back into work. The vast majority of people who fall out of work will get back into work within that period, so the provision is fair both to families and to taxpayers.

During the debate on the cap in recent months, there has been a lot of rhetoric about huge families sponging off the state. I have sympathy with some of the points made by the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell). Some of that rhetoric has been extremely unhelpful. Suggestions that all those on out-of-work benefits are getting more than people in work are simply not true. The rhetoric has been ramped up a little and that has been unhelpful for getting to the truth.

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

Like my hon. Friend, I welcome the Government’s announcement on transitional arrangements, which is particularly valid for those of us with London constituencies. She mentioned unhelpful rhetoric. Does she agree that it is important that, across the House, we convey what those transitional arrangements are, rather than spending a lot of time making political points and scaremongering, which affects all our constituents?

[Jenny Willott]

Many living in London have been told that they are going to be made homeless and that everybody on benefits gets more than people who work. Those messages are unhelpful. They scare people and we need to make sure that, from now on, there is a more sensible, measured tone to the debate.

[Mr McCann]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jenny Willott]

I will give way on that point and then I will not give way again.

[Mr McCann]

What does the hon. Lady make of what the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government said about the number of people who will be made homeless because of the introduction of this policy?

[Jenny Willott]

I understand that those are old figures that have been withdrawn and that new impact assessments have been published since. The hon. Gentleman can look at those and see what the new figures are.

As has been highlighted by many Members, the cap will hit people hardest in areas with high housing costs. Those tend to be in London, but are also found in cities around the UK. We are not talking about feckless, workshy families with hundreds of children who are sponging off the state. That is why what the Government have put forward today is much more sensible than the proposal sent down from the other place. Exempting child benefit would help those on the margins, but do nothing for those affected by the highest housing costs, who will potentially be most affected by the cap. The Government’s package of targeted support and discretionary housing payments is a much more effective way to deal with the issues that will be created.

I note that Labour Members have not tried to argue otherwise today. They have said little about the amendments that have come from the Lords. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that I heard him say that the Opposition plan to vote against the Government on the motion to disagree, as well as to vote in favour of their own amendment.

I disagree strongly with the localisation of the benefit cap because that would create a hideously complicated system that it would cost a fortune to implement. It has been suggested in desperation by the Labour party at the very last minute. The proposal is incredibly vague and was summarily demolished by the right hon. Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood).

[Bill Esterson]

rose—

[Jenny Willott]

I will not give way any more because I want to give other people the chance to speak.

There are no arguments in favour of what Labour has put forward. It is far too vague to even be considered at such a late stage. I think that the Government’s approach is right.

As other hon. Members have said, alongside the targeted support and the grace period, we need to look at the issue of rents and the ridiculously high housing costs in parts of the country. That affects working families who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads, as well as those who are on out-of-work benefits. The Government have been forced into a number of the measures that they are taking because high housing costs have forced up housing benefit and local housing allowance budgets over the past few years. That money is going mainly into the pockets of private landlords. Alongside the transitional support, which will help with high housing costs and help families in the greatest need, I hope that Ministers will work with the Department for Communities and Local Government and local authorities to bring down rents in high-cost areas. That would be a much more effective way to tackle this problem in the long term in particular areas and would save the Government money in the long run.

Finally, I am grateful that Ministers have now made it clear that the Government will review the implementation of the cap after a year. I welcome that. I hope that it will identify any issues or areas where there are problems so that action can be taken.

[Simon Hughes]

My hon. Friend has done a huge amount of work. Before she sits down, may I say that the things that should give London Members the greatest confidence are the letter from the Secretary of State, which confirms that an independent consortium is carrying out a review of the recent local housing allowance changes, and that Ministers have today made it clear that this policy will be reviewed in a way that is public and accountable, and that if it then needs to be re-evaluated, that can be done by Parliament and Government?

[Jenny Willott]

I agree with my right hon. Friend. I give way to the Minister.

[Chris Grayling]

I referred to this earlier, but I would like to put it on the record that we certainly intend to carry out a review, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) said. We would automatically do so with a major policy innovation of this kind. We will carry that out in a transparent way. I also confirm that we are carrying out the other work that he talked about. I want that to be on the record for him.

[Jenny Willott]

I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying those points.

Finally, the Harrington process that has been put in place to review the work capability assessment has been an extremely effective way of getting outsiders to take an independent look at how Government policy is working. It has made significant improvements. I hope that we can learn from that process for the review of this policy to ensure that we are doing what is in the best interests of those who are affected by the cap and of taxpayers.

[Mr Slaughter]

This is how the benefit system works in high-rent areas. If someone with four children goes to Hammersmith council and asks to be placed, they will not be given a permanent home and will be told that they have no prospect of ever getting one, because Hammersmith council is demolishing, not building, social housing. They will not even get temporary accommodation. They will be put in a direct let property under the relationship that the council has with some of the seediest landlords going. They will be charged market rents, but will be living in appalling conditions.

Let us take a real example of a family with four children who live in an ex-council property—these slum landlords go around buying up such properties—on a council estate in the poorest ward in my constituency. They currently get £450 a week in housing benefit for a four-bedroom flat. That will of course be reduced to £400, so they will slowly but surely get to the point of being evicted.

On the day when they are evicted, those people will go back to the town hall with their children. They may then be accepted as non-intentionally homeless, and they might be put into accommodation in Croydon. However, Croydon council says that when the overall cap comes into effect, it will move its families to Hull. That family will therefore face the prospect of a double move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kate Green]

The point is that a system is being established whereby the parent with care must access the system. There will be a discussion at that point about the process by which that approach to the agency is made. There is no difficulty at all at that point in taking a decision about the responsibility and behaviour of the parent making that application. I cannot understand why the Government think that it is perfectly okay for other officials in the DWP to make decisions on whether people are making appropriate efforts to make themselves available for employment, but not for a decision to be taken on whether a parent has properly engaged in a process of seeking to reach agreement with a non-resident parent.

I also want to speak briefly about the Government’s proposal to amend the obligation on the child poverty target under the Child Poverty Act. The current obligation is for the Government to report on the progress that must be made to achieve child poverty targets—targets to which every party in this House has signed up. There will now be a far weaker requirement simply to report on proposed measures. In other words, there will be an obligation on the Government to report on what they might or might not do, but absolutely no obligation to report on whether it works or on what difference it makes. That undermines what lies at the heart of the Act, which was a genuine wish across the House in the previous Parliament to see real progress in bringing down child poverty and for every politician in this House to be accountable for that outcome.

I very much regret such a weakening of the Child Poverty Act. In future, the Government could legally produce a child poverty strategy that makes no reference to the number of children in poverty—an extremely important measure in driving progress—and has no clear goals for how the proposed actions will reduce that number. When the independent Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that the cumulative impact of the Government’s welfare reforms on other measures will be to drive up child poverty between now and 2015 and onwards to 2020, one has to wonder whether the proposal is not a rather cynical and calculating step on the part of the Government to wriggle out of an obligation that they know they are not on track to meet.

[Jenny Willott]

I want to speak quickly on under-occupancy and the Child Support Agency.

The main concern on the Liberal Democrat Benches about under-occupancy and the housing benefit proposals—as hon. Members have heard from a couple of my colleagues and from Members on both sides of the House—is about the impact on rural areas and, in particular, the Scottish islands. There is also a concern about urban areas where an active allocation policy has meant that families have been given larger houses in areas that are less popular. I appreciate that it is difficult to lay out in legislation the need to ensure that tenants are offered appropriate alternative accommodation, but it is important that we ensure that when alternative offers are made they should take into account issues such as family and support networks, which are particularly important in helping people to get back into work. Offers should also take into account the distance people will have to travel, how that will relate to the communities, the lack of public transport in rural areas and so on, as well as where people are working and how easy it is for them to commute if they are required to move.

I understand that the Government will be doing that through discretionary housing payments, but I would be grateful if the Minister would ensure that guidance making those elements very clear is provided for local authorities. I know that discretionary housing payments are ring-fenced, and that is extremely important, but it is also important that general rules taking into account a sensible approach of looking at community links and the availability of alternative accommodation, or lack thereof, are applied across the country.

[Sheila Gilmore]

rose—

[Jenny Willott]

I am not going to give way.

Another concern is that it will take a while to move people and for accommodation to become available. Registered social landlords are concerned to know how long the process will take, so that they can enable a managed process. While that happens, there will be an impact on their income as arrears are likely to build up before alternative accommodation becomes available. Some RSLs have done work on this, including Riverside housing association, which is based in Merseyside. It has calculated that it will take it at least three years to move everybody around. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. I am having some difficulty in hearing the hon. Lady because of all the private conversations going on in the Chamber during this important debate. If hon. Members want to have private conversations, perhaps they could step outside the Chamber.

[Jenny Willott]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Will the Minister look at what an appropriate time frame would be and how long it is likely to take housing associations to move people around properties? Will she ensure that discretionary housing payments are available throughout that period so that people do not receive a large cut in their benefit while they are waiting for alternative accommodation to become available? This is a difficult issue and I know that the Government have made provision for those living in adapted accommodation and for foster carers.

[Maria Miller]

I just want to reassure my hon. Friend on a couple of points. First, we intend to commission an independent evaluation of the impact of the size criteria measure, which will give her some of the information and reassurance she seeks about the impact of the changes. We will also be providing funding of £13 million to councils over four years until 2015-16 for support to tenants who wish to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jenny Willott]

I thank the Minister for that useful information, which answers in part some of the questions I was going to ask.

It would be helpful if the Government kept an eye on progress. Certain money has been put aside for adapted properties, foster carers and so on, but it would be useful to know that if other vulnerable groups or particular parts of the country are identified as a particular problem, the Government would ensure that that was taken into account in the future allocation of money and in how they look at the impact of the policy on households.

On the Child Support Agency, there is a problem with up-front costs, particularly with the gap that was originally in the proposals between the amount required from those who are working compared with that required from those on benefits. I therefore welcome the Government’s announcement today that they are reducing the fee to £20, which will make a significant difference for a lot of households. Now, we just need to make sure that the service being provided is worth the up-front fee, which frankly it has not been in the past. I hope that we will see some progress in this area so that people will feel they are getting something for their money.

The Minister knows about a particular concern of mine, which I want to raise again today. I still have serious concern about the closing down of old cases and their transferral to the new system. I am sure that all MPs have had people come to see them in surgery with cases in which an irresponsible non-resident parent will not pay, plays the system, refuses to support their own children, and takes years to pin down until a deduction of earnings order in finally put in place. I am concerned about the impact on children of cancelling those orders and making the parent with care start the entire process again, not least because of the difficulties many have had with the CSA in the past and the lack of faith they have in the system. I would be grateful if the Minister would ensure that those cases were prioritised to ensure that when they are transferred to the new system they are properly monitored so that payment keeps flowing as much as possible and that if payment must stop it is only for a very short period so that huge arrears cannot build up, because those cases are the most likely to have a background of large arrears already.

[Mr Watts]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jenny Willott]

I will not I am afraid.

This group of amendments is very varied and we have had a wide debate this afternoon. The Government have made improvements to the Bill, which I welcome, particularly those to the CSA fee. I hope that the Minister will take into account the points that my colleagues and I have raised, particularly on the issue of housing under-occupancy, which is probably the issue of most concern to us in the Bill. So far, I have found that Ministers have listened and taken concerns on board, and I hope they do that today because the Bill is in a much better state now than it was at the beginning of this process.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I, too, would like to address the issue of under-occupancy and say that the concerns of my local housing department, Wigan and Leigh Housing, are so strong that we have been in correspondence with Lord Freud. There are very few one-bedroom properties, private or council, in my local area, and it will take eight to 10 years to move the 1,450 to 1,800 people who, on the estimates, might want to downsize. During that period, it is estimated, on Lord Freud’s own research, that 35% of those people— [Interruption.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Maria Miller]

To give the House total clarity I should say that the report that the hon. Lady references was highly selective. It examined only about 10% of the responses that we received on the DLA and PIP consultation.

I will answer the hon. Lady’s question about carers directly as she, like me, wants to ensure that carers get the support that they need. We have already made it clear that carers will be eligible for carer’s allowance as a result of the person for whom they are caring being in receipt of either level of PIP.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

Many disabled people are deeply unhappy about the performance of Atos Origin in administering the work capability assessment. As a result, they are scared about the introduction of the new PIP assessment. What discussions has the Minister had with disability organisations about who will carry out the new assessments, and what reassurance has she been able to give them that the mistakes made with the work capability assessment will not be repeated with PIP?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend will be aware that the new personal independence payment assessment will be separate from the WCA, and that any contracts that are in place for Atos are not at all connected with the new assessment that we need for PIP. In fact, a formal competition document is going out today to start the commercial process. To reassure her about the involvement of disabled people, I say that we already have an implementation development group, which involves disabled people closely at every step of the way.

Unemployment

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

Of course it is right that we are debating this important issue today. Everybody knows that unemployment is a serious problem across the country. We seem, however, to have had the same Opposition day debate over and over again. The same people have been in the Chamber repeatedly over the last few months, and every debate follows the same pattern. Labour never accepts responsibility for the economic mess in which we find ourselves and no new ideas on how to tackle the problem are offered; the same old failed ideas are repeated in every debate.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Jenny Willott]

No, I will not. There will be plenty of opportunities for others to speak later. I hope that by not giving way, as many Back Benchers as possible will have the opportunity to contribute.

The Government are trying to rebalance the economy left to us by Labour. Labour relied on the public sector for far too long to make up for declining growth elsewhere, and it did not support the private sector in the good times. Some areas have stratospheric levels of public sector employment. In Merthyr Tydfil, for example, more than 40% of people—more than four in 10—are employed in the public sector. That is clearly not sustainable across the country as a whole. We must work to increase employment in other sectors—the private sector has already been mentioned and other Members have mentioned the voluntary or third sector—to reduce our reliance on the public sector and ensure that we have a much better balanced economy that is better able to absorb shocks from the global economy and future recessions.

There is some evidence that we are starting to see progress. I would take issue with the figures of the right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron). My understanding is that public sector employment fell last year by 276,000, but that employment in the private sector increased by 262,000—a difference of only 14,000 jobs. Almost all the jobs lost in the public sector have been replaced by an increase in jobs in the private sector.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

rose—

[Jenny Willott]

I am not going to give way.

There are problems in the eurozone, problems with bank lending and so forth, which have a serious impact on job creation in the private sector, but we can say that we are starting to see some progress, and the Government are trying to encourage even more progress. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), who is responsible for employment, announced in the autumn statement measures to stimulate growth. Rather than try to borrow their way out of a debt crisis, the Government are being more pragmatic and sensible. I welcome some innovative ideas for raising money—working with pension funds, for example, to unlock £20 billion of investment. That is better than the Government simply borrowing more and more money, which has been shown not to work.

I share the concerns of some Labour and Government Members about the level of youth unemployment. I know that this is a concern across the House. Under Labour, youth unemployment rose nearly 75% between 2001 and 2010, so it was a serious problem before this Government came to power. There has been an increase, however, in the number of young people who are unemployed, and I know that Ministers, too, are deeply concerned about that. I am glad that the Government are investing in trying to tackle it. We need to recognise that it is going to be tough for young people in the near future, and we need to do more to make them as employable as possible so that when jobs are created and become available, they can take them up.

We know from past experience, and from the experience of unemployed people today, that people who are seeking work and spending all their time going to the job centre and applying for jobs can find the experience hugely demoralising, and it can lead to depression and mental health problems. For decades, that has been a problem for people facing unemployment. We need to make it easier for younger and older people facing unemployment to volunteer in order to build their skills, to learn what they enjoy doing, to get useful information for their CVs, to get good references and to help keep them closer to the job market.

Jobcentre Plus and the Work programme providers could work with the local voluntary sector and others in many areas to identify more opportunities for those on jobseeker’s allowance to volunteer. There are already many opportunities across the third sector, which we have heard about in various debates on this theme. There are other ways in which unemployed people of whatever age can volunteer and build up their skills. For example, it is possible to become a magistrate at 21. That is a good way in which people can gain experience in an area about which they would not necessarily know anything otherwise, while also learning skills that they can transfer to employment. Charity shops are always looking for volunteers, who will have the opportunity to gain retail experience that they too can transfer to employment. The retail sector in my constituency still has a significant number of vacancies, and it is one of the sectors that are most willing to take on those who are furthest from the jobs market.

There are plenty of ways in which we can help people to develop the habit of working by getting up at the same time each day, finding out what they enjoy, learning people skills, and acquiring new skills that they can take into work when jobs are created. Some may be inspired to set up their own businesses—older people who have experience and skills that they can take into entrepreneurship, and young people who are brimming with ideas.

I accept that the unemployment figures are an individual tragedy for all the people affected, and I am sure that we all feel the same, but relying on the ability to borrow more money will not help us to find a way out of this situation. We need to see investment, and to see the Government putting their money where their mouth is.

Pension Plan Charges

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Wednesday 7th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis) on his comprehensive speech, which covered a wide range of issues. I think that we would all agree that transparency is generally a good thing, and he gave lots of good reasons why, including some apposite examples of the problems created by lack of transparency, which we have probably all experienced.

Following on from the points that the hon. Gentleman raised, I have a couple of issues to highlight. Transparency in itself is not necessarily enough. He mentioned the introduction of auto-enrolment and the fact that across the House, we all want more people to save and we want auto-enrolment to be a success. Part of that will involve transparency, ease of use and so on, but there are also financial implications. People’s take-home pay will be reduced at a time of difficult economic circumstances. We must overcome that and encourage people to understand that it is good to save for retirement. As he said, in some cases, free money is being offered to employees, yet they still do not take up the pension.

We need to overcome that significant hurdle in British society and get people to think more seriously about long-term saving. Part of that involves financial literacy and education. A lot of the problem is that people do not understand what they need to do, and as the hon. Gentleman said, they are bamboozled by a lot of the information that they receive. I am concerned that even with transparency about charges, which I support, people will still be confused if they do not understand what they are looking at. Many people do not understand compound interest or the compounding effect of charges; 0.8% sounds extremely small, but over the lifetime of a pension, it can be a significant amount of money. People simply do not understand what they are looking at. He is right that there might be many ways to present the information to make it more useful and practical in making a decision, but we must also ensure that people know what they are looking at and understand how it relates to the choices before them.

It is not just transparency of charges that is important but transparency about the range of different products from which people can choose and how their individual characteristics should inform the choice that they make. For example, as the hon. Gentleman said, are they male or female? Are they likely to take maternity leave or a career break? Are they self-employed, which might cause their income to rise and fall? Do they have a shorter life expectancy, for any one of various reasons? All those things affect what products are most appropriate. More transparency and more information are needed, so that people can make well-informed decisions about the best products for them.

We must also ensure that people are aware of the risks associated with different products, including charges and investment risk. Investment risk is often not explained properly, so people are not really aware of what they are signing up to. I have a couple of different random pensions—very small pots—from previous employment, as probably a lot of people my age do. I am not saving in them any more, but I get an annual statement telling me that I have lost a huge amount of money over the past year because the stock market has gone down.

Such information will not encourage people to save unless it is put in context and they understand the bigger picture and their long-term goal. We must ensure that it is put in context and that people understand all the different elements. A lot of that will involve education in schools to give people much better financial literacy at a much earlier age. A whole generation of people are going into employment who do not really understand anything to do with pensions, savings, debt, credit cards and so on. We must do much better. A lot of good work is going on in schools, but we must ensure that that is done as well as improving transparency, so that people know what they are looking at when they get better information.

I would like more transparency about the investment side of pensions, as that might encourage people to save. Foreign pension funds have been investing heavily in UK infrastructure during the past couple of years, but so far UK pension funds have not done the same. Moves are afoot to encourage them to do so, but a number of UK pension funds invest in less ethical concerns such as extraction industries, weapons manufacture and so on. That has an impact on people’s choices about whether to save and which company to save with.

If we had transparency about where money was invested, fund managers would have to provide more information, so that people could see where their money was being invested and possibly move it around, thus making better use of their consumer power to encourage fund managers to invest where people want them to invest. That could encourage more people to save, particularly young people. I have many students in my constituency. For a lot of young people, ethical investment is a big issue. If they are to sacrifice some of their salary and tie it up for many decades to come, they want to know that that money will be used for good while it is invested by other companies. Better transparency would let people know where their money is, so that they can see what is being achieved with the investment of the money that they are saving. That would encourage more people to save as well.

We must be careful not to make the situation worse. One reason why annual statements are so complicated is that there is an awful lot of regulation about what information must be provided. When people get the annual statement for their private pension, stakeholder pension or whatever, they get a huge pile of bumf that goes with it, including lots of models showing how much they will get if they retire at 65 and what will happen if they carry on saving at this rate or if the market goes to this or that level. It is all useful information, designed to help people be better informed, but it switches many people off because there is too much detail. In theory, it is helpful, but actually, it can be counterproductive.

I agree completely with the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth that we must be careful about light-touch regulation. We must not be too prescriptive and must not just lay on more regulation, saying that more information must be provided, making the situation worse. We all want people to be able to see what they are investing in and to save more for the future. We need transparency to make that happen, but it should be done proportionately, assist people to see what they are investing in and encourage them to put money aside.

Benefits Uprating

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

The right hon. Gentleman, for whom I have a great deal of respect, will be aware that the reward for working comes from a combination of factors, one of which is the tax burden on the low-paid, and that this Government have twice increased the personal tax allowance by about £1,500. That is worth more than £300 a year for a standard rate taxpayer and, for two members of a couple in low-paid work, is a £600 gain with more to come. That is a real reward for working which all too often they have not had in the past.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

I welcome the fact that the state pension and the state earnings-related pension scheme will rise by 5.2%, and that pension credit will do so above earnings, but different levels of uprating and a complex system can make it difficult for pensioners to understand exactly what they should expect. Will the Minister do all that he can to simplify the system and bring in a flat-rate pension as soon as possible, so that pensioners are able to see clearly and easily what pension they should expect?

[Steve Webb]

My hon. Friend is characteristically persuasive. It is absolutely clear that a system in which we pay a wholly inadequate basic pension—we pay a pension that, even after the uprating to £107 a week, is not enough to live on, so we will top it up—cannot be a sustainable basis for the future. We therefore continue to develop our proposals for state pension reform, precisely so that we get more money to people automatically, with less reliance on complicated means tests that mean too many people do not get what they should.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jenny Willott Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We are taking significant steps to sort out the problems to which the hon. Lady refers. The introduction of the universal credit in 2013 will completely transform how our benefits system works. It will be much easier for people with disabilities to move back into work step by step—initially, perhaps, by doing a few hours’ work and then by entering part-time and then full-time employment. It will transform their prospects.

[Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD)]

Given Atos Healthcare’s past performance, no one has faith in the ability of the current work capability assessment or Atos fairly to assess fluctuating conditions in particular. Will the Minister work with Atos to ensure that the new descriptors are implemented as soon as possible and that Atos staff receive additional training to improve their performance and restore the faith of claimants and the general public in the assessment process?

[Chris Grayling]

I will have to wait and see what the recommendations are, but as a result of Professor Harrington’s first report, it is now decision makers in Jobcentre Plus who take the decision about an individual. I have told charitable groups representing people with a variety of conditions that the door is open to them to brief, train and discuss with those decision makers the issues facing such people so that they are as well informed as possible.