Oral Answers to Questions

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I had another very good meeting with Vidar Helgesen when he was in London last week, and he is quite open in saying, as my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has just said to the House, that Norway has access to the single market but has to contribute to the EU budget, implement EU law and accept freedom of movement without any say in how those decisions are made, which is why my view is that this country is better off in a reformed EU, rather than adopting the kind of status Norway has.

[Sir Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

Is the Foreign Secretary able to update the House on any progress in the Syrian peace talks and in particular, if it remains the Government’s ambition to remove President Assad, what progress we have made in building up an alternative Government capable of taking on IS?

[Mr Philip Hammond]

I have to tell my right hon. Friend candidly that the co-ordination between the civilian Syrian opposition and the moderate armed opposition is still disappointing. It is one of the areas on which we and our allies are working. We are committed to taking part in the programme of training and equipping members of the moderate Syrian opposition outside Syria, and that programme is beginning to gather pace now.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 20th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

That is actually a matter for DFID, but it did come up on my visit as well. There was a concern that there was a breakdown in the food voucher system because the funding was not there. I understand that the funding streams have now been repaired, but we will keep an eye on the situation. It is important to ensure that the refugees have the food that they require.

[Sir Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

Reports at the weekend suggested that Islamic forces were massing on the Lebanese border around the town of Qalamoun. Is the Minister in a position to update the House on the situation, and does he agree that any threat to the territorial integrity of Lebanon would be extremely serious indeed?

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend in this area. He was in Lebanon this summer. I had the chance to visit the Bekaa valley and see the work that the British are doing in training the Lebanese armed forces and in creating the watchtowers, which will help to enable the Lebanese to monitor and provide security themselves. But the situation is very intense indeed, and there is a threat of ISIL punching into Lebanon.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd December 2014 Commons Chamber

[James Duddridge]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that question, not least because I remember visiting Aston school in 2001 when I was a parliamentary candidate in Rother Valley. More recently, as Minister for Africa I have visited a number of schools, and twinning arrangements such as that in Zanzibar are a fantastic way to support schools and build understanding of what the British Government are doing by supporting the DFID budget and the foreign affairs team. I recommend that more colleagues encourage such schemes in their constituencies, just like the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), who supports an excellent scheme in Lesotho.

[Sir Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

In his answer to question 11, the Minister mentioned the welcome assistance given by this country to the Lebanese border regiment. Will he look again at that, particularly in Lebanon and Jordan, to see what further assistance we could give armed forces in those countries to prevent contagion from Syria and Iraq?

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the work done by my right hon. Friend when he covered this portfolio. He will be aware from his visit to the region of the start of a programme to build watchtowers, and the MOD is very much involved in that to prevent ISIL from running across the border and taking hostages. More funds are being provided for that successful programme, and I will be visiting Lebanon soon.

Palestine and Israel

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Monday 13th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure, as always, to follow the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr Love), and the many right hon. and hon. Members who have already made excellent speeches.

As the last Minister out of the washing machine on this topic, it is appropriate for me, on behalf of Members from across the House, to pay tribute to the many excellent people at the Foreign Office, both in the Box and in our two excellent missions in the embassy in Tel Aviv and the consulate in East Jerusalem—ably led by Matthew Gould, Sir Vincent Fean and Alastair McPhail—who have done so much, along with their staff from the Foreign Office, the Department for International Development and those employed locally, to represent our interests and to help the people of the region. All of us genuinely owe them a great deal.

Over the past year, my time was dominated by the Kerry peace plan. That process initially excited much optimism, but I am afraid that it was ultimately doomed, like many of its predecessors. When I was thinking about what I could usefully say today, my eyes were drawn to a line in Jonathan Powell’s new book—it was reviewed at the weekend—which states:

“A deal depends on personal chemistry and uncommon leadership”.

Having studied this area in detail over the past year, I regret to say that both of those factors were absent during the most recent round of negotiations.

What did we learn from those negotiations about the middle east peace process and the connected issue of recognising the state of Palestine? First, I genuinely believe that there will be no deal unless the international community not only remains engaged in the process, but drives it. The US is the only power in the world that can force the necessary concessions from the Israeli Government and meet their security concerns. The Kerry peace plan remains an excellent basis for restarting negotiations.

The reconstruction of a Palestinian state will require the sort of Gulf money that has been evident, and welcome, in Cairo over the weekend, so keeping the wider Arab world involved is key. Egypt also has a key role to play, and the UK needs a more consistent policy on Egypt. We have a unique bilateral relationship with it: we are the largest bilateral investor in the country, and about 1 million British tourists travel there each year. Resolution of the Gaza issue depends as much on the Egyptians as the Israelis. We should deal positively with Cairo for the greater good of the region.

Secondly, having secured proactive international buy-in, we need to freeze the situation on the ground and buy some time for the negotiations. At the moment, every hurdle and obstacle on the way is met with terrorist violence and announcements about more settlements. If there is much more building, particularly on area C, a two-state solution will fast become undeliverable, and we will be left with the one-state option that is in no one’s interests.

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Was my right hon. Friend’s experience that Mahmoud Abbas was a genuine partner for peace?

[Sir Hugh Robertson]

It absolutely was. By the same token, I believe that many people on the Israeli side are genuine partners for peace. I am afraid, however, that the ability to make the crucial decisions and the really tough compromises necessary to deliver a peace process was in the end absent, as they have been in the past.

Thirdly, the international community needs to look at an appropriate and calibrated programme of incentives and disincentives at key points in a peace process, and recognition of a Palestinian state is one key component. It will be extraordinarily difficult, but the process must be done in such a way that it is in neither side’s interest to derail it.

Finally, I fear that we need in practice to look again at our own policy. Having sat on the Front Bench only a few months ago, I know that the Minister is bound to say that the British policy is to support a two-state solution—that is good—based on the 1967 boundaries, with agreed land swaps. However, as I did when I stood looking at a settlement in East Jerusalem, we have to recognise that the international community lacks the will to bulldoze £1 million houses built illegally in settlements. We will have to form a new border, probably based on the wall, and then deal with the settlements beyond it if we are to make any progress.

I firmly believe that the principle of a Palestinian state is right and fair. I am delighted to be a signatory to the former Foreign Secretary’s amendment to that effect. However, I feel that declaring it unilaterally at this time could well be the catalyst for a further period of instability. The international community needs to re-engage on this issue as never before, led by the USA with the Arab world and Egypt alongside it. It must lay out a road map, including incentives and disincentives, to a final agreement in which the recognition of a Palestinian state is a key milestone. There is no doubt that that will be extraordinarily difficult, as many of our predecessors have found, but the alternative is unacceptably grim. This House can play a part in that process tonight.

North and West Africa (UK Response)

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Thursday 3rd July 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Amess. I start by thanking the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs for its report and hon. Members for their contributions, and by apologising for not being the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mark Simmonds)—the Minister with responsibility for Africa—who has been responding to the debate in the Chamber. I will try my best to answer the questions that have been put to me, but if I cannot, I hope that hon. Members will accept a response in writing after the debate.

The hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), the Opposition spokesman, said that there was not a million miles—was it a million or 100 million?—between us. The honest truth is that there is not even 1 mile between us on this matter. The danger, as pointed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Sir Richard Ottaway), the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, is that we tend to examine threats and then the focus moves on. Since the Committee produced its report, the focus moved to Syria and is now on Iraq. The spotlight moves on and we tend to follow it. As many hon. Members said, the underlying problems are long term and systemic, and only by committing ourselves to the region multilaterally will they be addressed.

Before addressing the points raised in the debate, I was asked to put on the record the apologies of the Prime Minister’s representative for the Sahel, my right hon. Friend the Member for Eddisbury (Mr O’Brien), for not being here. He is in Niger, where, I am glad to say, he is overseeing the first contract signed by that country with a UK company, so there is progress of a sort.

The best way for me to respond might be to go through the various contributions to pick up the questions asked—[Interruption.] I have just been told that that is probably not the way to do it, but there we go. Let me start with the speech of my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South, the Chairman of the Committee. He and others are right that Morocco and Algeria are natural allies of ours. They are two countries for which I am responsible and I have visited both this year. In the past, we might have suffered from the misapprehension that, being Francophone countries, they look to Paris, but they are keen to broaden their approach and to do more business with this part of the world, and, as the hon. Member for Wrexham said, the English language is key to that. Younger people in both countries are keen to learn English—the language of the internet. The idea that the quid pro quo for that should be a much more proactive involvement in the international affairs of north and west Africa is absolutely something that they understand and agree with.

Western Sahara is the sticky issue that prevents that, however. Relations between the two countries are not good. Nevertheless, it is encouraging that both recognise that relations are not good and that that is a barrier to further progress. I hope that a slight change in how this country deals with Morocco—to set parameters regarding Western Sahara and then to encourage it to meet them, which is a more proactive involvement, spearheaded by our excellent ambassador in Rabat—is starting to make a difference.

I agree with my right hon. Friend, the Chairman of the Committee, that the definition of development assistance must be enhanced and he is right that security and other areas can play a role; it cannot simply be the traditional definition. The same is true for the work of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. There was a time, some 20 years ago perhaps, when the Foreign Office saw its role in terms of pure diplomacy. These days, our relationships with countries are also about defence, security, health and education and, in some places, even culture and sport. We must learn to engage across a much wider waterfront.

Mentioning a wider waterfront brings me on to the question about the boat. The best answer is that I will write to my right hon. Friend, but I will have a go. Task Force Mediterranean is focused on prevention rather than stopping people leaving in the first place. I suspect that the answer to his question is that once a boat of migrants is intercepted, they would be returned to the nearest safe port or their home country, whichever is closer. That is the common-sense answer, but I will check and write to him.

The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) talked mainly about Nigeria, which I have not visited, but I was struck by the impression that it had made on her. She is right to say that the UK Government should give as much support as possible. I presume that she is aware of the package of support announced by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs on 12 June, following the London ministerial meeting, which includes direct tactical training and advice for Nigerian forces about the fight against terrorism. We are also involved in a regional intelligence-sharing partnership with France, the US, Nigeria and its neighbours. The Department for International Development and the United States Agency for International Development partnership will hopefully draw a million more children into education by 2020, which is in addition to the million that this country committed to in May under the UN safe schools initiative, and DFID will commit to 60% of its spend in northern Nigeria over coming years. Before coming here, I asked about last night’s debate introduced by the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), and was delighted to hear that it went well. Indeed, I believe that he welcomed the UK’s support for Nigeria.

The hon. Member for Ilford South (Mike Gapes), the former Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee, made a thought-provoking speech, and I absolutely agree with him. He will be amused to know that when I first met the Foreign Minister of the Kurdish autonomous region, as we were walking out at the end of a half-hour meeting, he said, “I forgot to do the thing that I should have done, which is to thank you for saving us all in 1991.” He then laughed and said, “And blame you for causing the problem in the first place.” The lines that we—Sykes and Picot in that case—drew across maps have caused many repercussions, and the hon. Gentleman is right to point to their illogicality.

The hon. Gentleman is also right that engagement with a country—this has really struck me during my 10 months in the Foreign Office—is always much more powerful than standing off and criticising. It is all too easy to think that because we are uncomfortable with some things that a country does it is better to disengage and criticise. It is almost always right to get involved and then make comments from the position of critical friend. There is a balance, but he is correct to say that non-intervention also has consequences. When we do not intervene, the problem often arrives in due course anyway.

The hon. Gentleman asked in particular about arms and ammunition in Libya. The Government have committed £20 million to address that problem. I am not sure whether this came out in the inquiry, but it was suggested to me that more than 400 arms dumps were left across Libya when Gaddafi fell, and that more arms and ammunition were floating around than when the eastern bloc fell in the late 1980s, which is a worrying statistic.

In another excellent speech, the hon. Member for Preston (Mark Hendrick) made some good points about Mali, Nigeria, Libya and others. On Libya, the Prime Minister has just appointed Jonathan Powell, who used to work for Tony Blair, as special envoy. He will work closely with his US counterpart to try to support and bring together reconciliation efforts in the country. Every country must take its share of responsibility. Looking across the whole area, the key to solving the issues and to long-term, sustained engagement will be a multilateral approach, involving us, the French, the United Nations, African forces and the rest coming together to achieve a common agenda. It is fair to say that that has not been the case up to now, and we are in the early stages of doing it, but that is clearly the way forward.

The hon. Member for Wrexham also made that point—the multilateral approach using stable countries will be the key to progress in the region—and he is absolutely right to talk about the phenomenal potential of countries such as Algeria and Morocco. We have both visited Algeria, a country that is changing extraordinarily quickly. The Algerians said to me, “The west has only just woken up to what we went through in the 1990s,” and, having come out of that, slowly but surely, they are keen not only to forge closer links with us in the west, and probably to shake off that Paris focus in policy, but to see what they can do in the region. When I was last in Algeria, on my second visit, the Algerians were in the process of hosting peace talks for the Malian Government. That was the first time, I think, that the Algerian Government had reached out beyond their own borders. We applaud such encouraging signs there.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to talk about the key role of the English language. In a sense, the British Council can never do enough in such areas, although we have been helped enormously by the fact that English has become the language of the internet and the preferred language for many young people. It gives us a real opportunity, which we should not miss.

We have spoken about reconciliation between Morocco and Algeria, but the hon. Gentleman also made a good point about Tunisia, the home of the Arab spring and in many ways its most successful graduate. There has been progress, although things seem to get there just before the critical moment. As he said, however, it is good to see that elections are scheduled for the autumn. It is vital that this country continues to support the Tunisians.

I will deal with the easy points made by the hon. Gentleman. He is absolutely right about civil rights and Nigeria—he is on the money there. On the question of ministerial responsibilities, the situation predates me, and I took over from someone with the same brief as mine. On the question of how things are divided up, the danger of grouping the middle east and all of Africa is that together they are a large part of the cake, which raises the issue of whether someone could give the region all the attention it deserves. I suspect we follow the Arab League arrangements, which take in the countries of north Africa, but not much further beyond.

When I arrived in the Foreign Office, however, the Foreign Secretary said that he was always open to moving responsibilities around as situations changed. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and that is something we should definitely keep under review. If there is a more sensible way to arrange responsibilities, there is no political reason for not doing so.

I finish where I started, and thank the Select Committee and its Chairman for a thoughtful piece of work, which we in the Foreign Office have read carefully. Many of the points made are good ones, which we agree with, and the report has given us a firm platform for progress in the years ahead.

Israeli Teenagers (Abduction and Murder)

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 1st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, if he will make a statement on the effect that the murder of three Israeli teenagers abducted by Palestinians will have on the middle east peace process.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

I visited Israel and the west bank from 17 to 19 June last week, just after the kidnapping of the three Israeli teenagers. The whole House will share our sadness that last night the Israeli Government confirmed that they had recovered their bodies in the west bank. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has said, this is an appalling act of terror. There is no reason, belief or cause that can justify the abduction and killing of innocent civilians. We send our deepest condolences to the families of Gilad Shaar, Naftali Frenkel and Eyal Yifrach.

The Government remain in close contact with both the Israeli and Palestinian authorities. The urgent priority is to hold those responsible to account under the rule of law, and we stand ready to do everything possible to help. The Home Secretary has been in Israel and the west bank this week and has had discussions with political leaders on both sides. I welcome President Abbas’s condemnations of the abduction. We are encouraging Israel and the Palestinian Authority to continue to work together to find the perpetrators. I saw evidence of that co-operation during my visit and it is vital that it continues in the days and weeks ahead. It is also vital that all parties avoid action that could escalate the situation further. All security operations must be handled with due care, restraint and a proportionate use of force.

It is too early to be clear about the full implications for the middle east peace process, but we will do our utmost, with our allies and partners, to keep open the prospects for a return to negotiations on a two-state solution, which is, and remains, the only way to resolve this conflict once and for all.

[Mr Bone]

I thank the Minister for that full answer. I am sure the whole House would endorse his comments about passing our sympathies and prayers to the families directly affected and also to the nation of Israel. I cannot help but reflect on what the feeling of this House would be if three teenagers from Wellingborough had been abducted and murdered by terrorists.

May I press my right hon. Friend on a few issues? It is true, I believe, that overseas aid to the Palestinian Authority has been used to provide salaries for the families of convicted Palestinian terrorists. Given the propaganda celebrating the abduction of the Israeli teenagers, should we review that? Will the Government support the Israeli Government not only in their actions to track down the perpetrators of this evil crime, but in dismantling the infrastructure of the Hamas organisation?

Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that part of the Palestinian Fatah-Hamas unity Government is a terrorist organisation that carries out such dreadful crimes? It seems completely illogical that it can be thought of as part of a democratic process. Will he also set out his concerns a little more about how this incident will affect the ongoing peace process? Unless such terrible acts of terror can be stopped, I do not see how we can move the peace process forward.

[Hugh Robertson]

I thank my hon. Friend for his questions and, indeed, for securing the urgent question.

On the question of salaries, as luck would have it, the Minister of State, Department for International Development, is sitting next to me, and he absolutely confirms that this is not true; it is an old rumour. The money is paid through a World Bank trust fund to vetted people, who are nominated civil servants.

As for the actions of the Israeli Government, we have had extensive consultations with the Israeli Government. We absolutely understand that this is an extraordinarily difficult time in the region and that tensions are running high. Indeed, for Members of all parties who have not been there recently, it is difficult to understand how this event has consumed Israeli society. While I was there, it was running on the tickertape 24 hours a day. It is crucial that any actions that the Israeli Government take are precisely targeted to find the perpetrators and that, in doing that, they avoid a more general escalation.

On the question of Fatah and Hamas, the technocratic Government are signed up to the Quartet principles. If anybody in that Government were an active member of Hamas, which remains a terrorist organisation, that would absolutely be the end of this Government’s dealing with them and would be a very serious matter indeed. That is not the case at the moment; they are fully signed up to the Quartet principles.

As to the effect on the peace process, it is an absolutely pivotal part of British Government policy at the moment to try to create the conditions under which the peace process can be restarted. Everything we are doing is to try to rebuild those conditions, which is absolutely to the benefit of both sides. If this situation goes on, with further settlement building on the one hand and applications to international organisations on the other, there will not be another chance. I urge all Members, with whichever side they sympathise, to do everything possible to de-escalate the situation and encourage both parties to return to the negotiating table.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for his answer to the urgent question.

Today, Israel is united in grief at the appalling murders of Naftali Frenkel, Gilad Shaar and Eyal Yifrach. The whole House will unite in expressing the most profound sympathy to the families and loved ones of the murdered young men, whose photographs today convey to us the heinous crime that this is. Those of us who are parents can barely contemplate what those close to the young men are going through. It is imperative that those responsible for these crimes be brought to account, and I call on everyone to co-operate to achieve justice. This was an appalling act of terror, intended to increase the suffering, bloodshed and injustice that have too long scarred the region.

With every tragic casualty in this conflict, the prospects of peace seem ever further away, but now is the time for the international community to unite around those parties on all sides that are willing to take difficult steps to make progress towards peace. In the light of that, will the Minister set out what contact he has had with his Israeli and Palestinian counterparts in the past 24 hours? Will he set out his assessment of the impact these latest tensions are likely to have on the Palestinian unity Government and the Israeli Government’s policy towards them?

The Minister will be aware of the Israeli Government’s insistence that Hamas is responsible for the kidnapping and murder of these three innocent young men, but will he provide the British Government’s assessment of today’s claims of responsibility for the murders by the jihadist group, Supporters of the Islamic State in Jerusalem?

These are perilous times and the risk of further bloodshed is high. The US Under-Secretary-General Jeffrey Felton was right to say that both Israelis and Palestinians should exercise maximum restraint to prevent tensions from escalating further. I hope the Minister will assure us that the British Government will now seek to work with international allies to call for calm, to encourage dialogue and work towards peace in an effort to overcome this moment of great and grave danger.

[Hugh Robertson]

I thank the Opposition spokesman for his support and for the way in which he set out his case. We absolutely agree with him that this is a moment for exercising maximum restraint. Let me answer the hon. Gentleman’s three questions in order.

On contact with our Israeli counterparts, I have already communicated with Minister Livni, who is my direct counterpart, and I saw Minister Steinitz when I was in Israel a week ago, and he saw the Foreign Secretary when he was in this country at the end of last week. The Home Secretary has been in both Israel and the west bank for the past couple of days and has seen interlocutors on both sides. That contact is strong and ongoing.

On the impact on the Palestinian Government, this is a serious moment and I absolutely welcome President Abbas’s strong condemnation of the actions, both overnight and indeed in his speech in Riyadh a week ago. When I was in Israel, both sides acknowledged the security support that had been given by the Palestinians in the early stages of the incident.

As for who is responsible, it is too early to say. The British Government have no firm evidence, and nothing from the Islamic state in Jerusalem. It is fair to say to the hon. Gentleman, in the spirit of openness and honesty, that the Israeli Government are very clear about the fact that Hamas was responsible. When I was in Israel 10 days ago, there was some indication on the Palestinian side that that might be correct, but we have no hard evidence in London to back that up.

[Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I sometimes fear that the only thing that unites people in the region is grief for their children. Whatever may be the causes of conflict, children are never the perpetrators, and they never deserve to be the victims.

Does my right hon. Friend agree that men of violence know exactly what they are doing, and know exactly what to provoke in response? There is no justification for this wicked crime, and Israel is right to seek justice on behalf of the families, but will the Foreign and Commonwealth Office urge—even now, at such a critical time—that more effort be put into the peace process? Until this is settled, there will be another incident, and another, and another, until the men of violence get what they want, which is a conflagration that will add to the explosions in the area, and the men of peace will find that it is too late.

[Hugh Robertson]

I hope that, if I say that I could not have put it better myself, my right hon. Friend will take that in the right spirit, given that he did my job just before me. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the impact of this on children. As we see in conflicts across the world, they are so often the innocent victims.

My right hon. Friend has my absolute assurance that the Foreign Office will do everything possible to reinvigorate the middle east peace process. We may speculate on the many possible causes of what has happened, but the fact that renegade elements opposed to the peace process have used it to bring down that process is clearly a very likely explanation.

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

I commend the Minister for his balanced response. May I ask him to send the heartfelt sympathy of, I am sure, every Member in the House—very much including myself—to the grief-stricken families of these abducted and murdered youths? What has been done to them has no conceivable justification of any kind.

Will the Minister also send our sympathy to the families of the five Palestinians whom Israeli troops murdered during their search for the missing youths in a collective punishment which has involved hundreds of arrests and the looting and ransacking of houses? Nothing whatsoever can justify the murder of these Israeli youths, but it is very important indeed to see it in the context of a conflict that will go on until there is a fair settlement.

[Hugh Robertson]

Absolutely. The sympathy of the Government, and indeed, I am sure, the sympathy of everyone in the House, will be with all those who have lost family members, friends and relatives in this conflict. It has often struck me, in the context of the middle east, that there cannot really be a hierarchy of victimhood, and our sympathy must be with all who have lost their lives. If this tells us anything, it is that we must renew and deepen our search for a peaceful settlement in the middle east, one that recognises the concerns of both sides. It was an absolute tragedy that, having put in so much work and effort personally, the United States Secretary of State was unable to conclude an agreement at the end of March, but that is not a reason for not trying any further, and we must deepen those efforts.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

I join the Government in expressing sympathy for the parents of the teenagers and all the people of Israel in this moment of grief, in condemning the killings unreservedly, and in welcoming their condemnation by both Israeli and Palestinian authorities. Does the Minister agree that this underlines the importance of bringing together in a peace process all parties who are prepared to engage in that process, even when the conflict has involved the ultimate tragedy of the deaths of children on both sides?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes. I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s contribution; he has made a point that has been made by any others. If this proves anything, it proves that the path of violence will lead only to further escalation and more deaths of children and others across both the west bank and Israel. It proves, if proof were needed, the importance of trying to get the middle east peace process back on track, and of delivering a solution for both sides in the conflict.

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

These are cold terrorist murders of three teenagers on their way home from school. What does the Minister think should be done to address the unremitting messages of hate that come from Palestinian media? They are partly responsible for this situation and are a grave impediment to peace.

[Hugh Robertson]

I shall give the hon. Lady an answer that draws on my personal experience. As she may know, I was a soldier for 10 years, and took part in campaigns against terrorism, and when we lose people—civilians or soldiers—in these situations, that is precisely the time when we need to show leadership and show restraint. Absolutely all efforts should be directed at finding the perpetrators but it is very important that all those actions are directed at doing that, and nothing wider.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

One’s heart goes out to the parents of the murdered children and to the Israeli nation which mourns its dead. This has happened just two weeks after the Palestinian unity Government have come into effect. I believe the Minister has just said that if Hamas turns out to be the perpetrator, he will reconsider the British Government’s attitude to the unity Government. Will he clarify exactly what he means by that and the likely consequences if Hamas turns out to be the perpetrator?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes I will, and may I thank my right hon. Friend for the work that he and his Committee do in this area? It is important to note that the technocratic Government have absolutely signed up to the Quartet principles and, as far as we can see, no member of Hamas is part of that Government. If members of Hamas are, indeed, proved to be part of this and responsible for these actions, that would clearly be a very serious moment indeed, and we would have to examine very precisely the link between it and the technocratic Government. At this stage it is too early to set that hare running, because we do not have the full facts in front of us, nor do we have any absolute evidence as to who was responsible, so I think that has to be a question for another day.

[Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)]

There was absolutely no excuse for the murder of the three Israeli teenagers in the west bank. It was an appalling crime and it is a tragedy for their families and friends. Does the Minister agree that Palestinian teenagers and children who also die, in Israeli strikes and military operations, have names, faces and families, for whom their deaths are equal tragedies? He rightly referred to the importance of the rule of law. Will he say to the House, in the appalling situation we are in at the moment, what he thinks are the responsibilities under international law of the Palestinian Authority and what are the responsibilities of the Israeli Government as an occupying power in the west bank, and will he confirm that collective punishment of the Palestinian people is a crime under international law?

--- Later in debate ---

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes, I absolutely understand why the hon. Gentleman asks that question, particularly given his role as the chairman of the all-party group on Britain-Palestine. The role of the technocratic Government is very clear. These youths were not abducted in an area that is inside their security control, but it is perfectly possible—but not yet confirmed—that the perpetrators of this crime did come from an area that was controlled by them. It is absolutely their job and responsibility to co-operate with the Israeli Government in bringing the perpetrators to justice, and it is absolutely the responsibility of the Israeli Government to ensure the action they take is precisely targeted at the perpetrators and no wider.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Thank you for granting the urgent question, Mr Speaker.

Hamas is Hamas is Hamas: it is a terrorist organisation whether it is part of the so-called unity Government or not, and Hamas has celebrated the kidnapping of these children and their murder. Surely it is now time to cut off relations with the Government given that they are co-opted with a terrorist organisation. Does my right hon. Friend agree that, far from showing restraint, the British Government should give Israel every possible assistance to take out the Hamas terrorist network so that that country can be sure that her children will be secure in the future?

[Hugh Robertson]

Let me answer those two questions in reverse order. The British Government will give the Israeli Government every possible assistance to find the perpetrators of this appalling crime. We have made that commitment to the Israeli Government, and I made that commitment when I was in the west bank 10 days ago. That remains the case. As far as Hamas is concerned, nobody should be under any illusions about this at all: Hamas is a terrorist organisation and remains a terrorist organisation, and one that is proscribed by the British Government. The key thing about the technocratic Government was that they signed up to the Quartet principles and renounced violence and no member of Hamas is a member of that Government.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the Minister’s commitment to doing everything he can to support the peace process in the light of this heinous act, but can he share with the House what recent reports he has received on statements made by the new Palestinian unity Government and President Abbas on the murder of the three Israeli students?

[Hugh Robertson]

I did not see President Abbas when I was there 10 days ago because he was in Riyadh, where he made a speech that was unequivocal in its condemnation of what had happened. He made another statement last night along the same lines, and Israeli interlocutors whom I saw in Israel were very clear that they had received full security co-operation from the technocratic Government.

[Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

The anger and outrage of the people of Israel at the appalling murder of these three teenagers are wholly understandable and shared here because of our special links to Israel, but equally understandable are the anger and outrage of Palestinians at the death of 1,406 children in the conflict since 2000, including 270 in Gaza under air and ground attack in 2009 alone. Would adding to this awful toll by the threatened Israeli reaction be either legal or wise?

[Hugh Robertson]

In a sense my hon. Friend makes the case for the reconstitution of the peace process and for everybody in this House doing everything possible to avoid an escalation and to get both parties back to the negotiating table. The death toll on both sides throughout this conflict is appalling. This is merely the latest in a long line of incidents that has tried to derail the peace process, and it proves once and for all that there is no future in violence and underlines the importance of getting both parties back to the table.

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

The Israeli ex-combatants organisation Breaking the Silence responded to these murders by saying:

“We all bow our heads in mourning for the victims from both sides in the past weeks, in the hope for an end to this cycle of bloodshed and occupation.”

Does the Minister agree that that is the right response—that we should send our condolences to Israeli and Palestinian dead and their families—and that, particularly given what the Prime Minister of Israel has said about retaliation, we should stress to all sides that retaliation and escalation are not the way forward?

[Hugh Robertson]

In a sense the hon. Gentleman makes a point that many others have made. As I have said, it is crucial that any reaction is targeted very precisely at the perpetrators, and further bloodshed is not the way to resolve this situation.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

My sigh was explicable, as the Whip on duty has helpfully pointed out, by the embarrassment of riches from which I had to choose.

[Hugh Robertson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. It is difficult at a time like this, when tensions are high on both sides and there is obviously the prospect of a further conflagration. Getting the middle east peace process back on track is more difficult now than it has been for a while, as everybody would admit if they were being honest, but the situation also demonstrates why that is so important. The two-state solution, within the parameters of which everybody is aware, remains the best basis to do that. It will require a very particular formulation of land swaps, which will be difficult, as everybody is aware, but the events of the past two weeks show just why it is so important.

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

May I place on the record my condolences to the families involved in this tragedy? Having returned from a middle east investigation by the Select Committee on International Development, I have to say that I disagree profoundly with the Minister’s statement on DFID funding to the Palestinian Authority. We do provide funding to the PA and it is absurd to suggest that that money can be ring-fenced; the Palestinian Finance Minister confirmed to me that they do pay Palestinian prisoners in jail, depending on how long their sentences are. Will the Minister confirm that Her Majesty’s Government will support and assist the Israeli and Palestinian authorities in their search for the murderers of these three young boys?

[Hugh Robertson]

Let me deal with the easier part of that first. The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s second question is yes, we will do everything we can to assist both the Israeli and Palestinian authorities in the search for the murderers. I have followed the progress of the International Development Committee carefully across the region. I have not yet seen the report, but, clearly, if the Committee has evidence to support the allegations the hon. Gentleman has made, that would be a very serious matter, which I am sure the International Development Secretary will wish to take up.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

May I join hon. Members in utterly condemning these brutal murders? I can well understand that today those in charge in Israel would want to retaliate, but as a good friend of Israel may I ask that we encourage them and men of good will to exercise restraint? Could we use every possible avenue—after all, we have good channels of communication with both sides and with the Americans—to see whether we can row back from a bleak place towards a peace process?

[Hugh Robertson]

Let me give my hon. Friend some comfort on all this. If he looks at the international reaction to it, he will find that it has absolutely reflected the points he makes. President Obama’s statement last night contained enormous sympathies for the families of all those involved; one of the victims was a dual Israeli-American citizen and President Obama absolutely expressed that sympathy. He went on to make the point that any reaction must be targeted and proportionate. That is absolutely a line that our Prime Minister has followed up, and that is being followed up in all our ministerial contacts and by our embassy in Tel Aviv.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

May I, too, associate myself with the remarks made by the Minister, the shadow Minister and, in particular, my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman)? May I also place on record my sympathies to the families of the murdered young Israeli men? May I also press the Minister further about what specific measures the Government are taking to help to de-escalate tensions, which are rising quickly, and to restore some balance between the Israeli and Palestinian Governments, and in the region?

[Hugh Robertson]

That is a difficult question to answer briefly, as I am sure you would wish me to do, Mr Speaker. The British Government give long-term and short-term support. The long-term support relates to the work we are doing with the Palestinian Authority to build up capacity and to relieve poverty. I saw many of the schemes during my visit last week, including the training at the police academy and the schemes where we are helping Palestinians with planning issues. Our shorter-term support is about the work we are doing with our ministerial contacts, our embassy’s contacts and the consul-general’s contacts in east Jerusalem to work not only for de-escalation but, crucially, to find the perpetrators of this appalling crime.

[Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD)]

I very much welcome this urgent question on what I have described elsewhere as brutal and sickening murders. Does the Minister agree that if urgent questions were sought each time a Palestinian was treated brutally and murdered by the Israeli defence forces, we would, sadly, be here most weeks? Does he also agree that the violence perpetrated by both sides must be condemned equally, and that such violence is not and cannot be in the interests of the Palestinians or the Israelis if we are going to work towards a solution to this dreadful conflict?

[Hugh Robertson]

I doubt that anybody in the House, or anybody involved in the politics of the middle east, believes that a further escalation between the two sides in this conflict is in anybody’s interest—that way lie more deaths similar to the ones we have seen overnight. On whether a life is worth more or less one side of the line or the other, I say it absolutely is not; there is no hierarchy of victimhood, and people suffer equally.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

The Minister will not have been surprised that everyone in this House has condemned the cold-blooded murders of the three boys. Obviously, we send our sympathy to their parents, as we do to the parents of children on both sides of the conflict who have lost their lives. Does he not agree, however, that the Northern Ireland situation presents the way out, to a large extent? The killings took place over many years on both sides; many argued and fought for a settlement, which fortunately came about. If it has not entirely resolved the situation in Northern Ireland, it has certainly substantially reduced the number of people killed—children and adults alike.

[Hugh Robertson]

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point. I do not know whether he knows this, but I served as a soldier in Northern Ireland in 1987-88. I remember that when I left the Province at the end of my six-month tour, I thought it was utterly inconceivable that the problem would ever be solved, yet, through the good work of good people on both sides, a peace settlement has now been achieved. That probably reveals the central theme of this morning: when the situation seems bleakest is precisely when we need to strive hardest to try to find a solution.

[Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con)]

May I associate myself with all the words of condolence? If you will forgive me, Mr Speaker, may I also add, at the start of the mourning period for the families, a Jewish condolence and wish them long life and no more suffering? Does the Minister agree that one way to bring this current crisis to and end would be for the Palestinian Authority to turn in the people who committed this heinous crime, so that justice can be done through the legal process?

[Hugh Robertson]

May I start by associating myself with my hon. Friend’s expression of condolence? In answer to his question, I say yes, absolutely. Let me give him reassurance by saying that while I was there, it was abundantly clear to me that the technocratic Government were co-operating in security terms with the Israelis, as the Israelis acknowledged. If that Government have any information that they have not handed over that would help bring those responsible to justice, I urge them to hand it over now.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I commend both the weight and the balance of the Minister’s words. As well as condemning the dreadful murder of these three teenagers, in response to the terrible abduction I join other hon. Members in deploring the unjustified deaths of Palestinian youths in recent times. Does the Minister recognise that in any conflict there comes a point where both sides have to recognise that they cannot be secure against each other and that they can be truly secure only with each other? We hear about “both sides”, but does he accept that many people on both sides in the middle east do not see themselves in the violence of either side in the middle east? It is to those peace-minded people, Palestinians and Israelis alike, that we should offer solidarity today, as we offer sympathy to the mourning families?

[Hugh Robertson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind words. He makes a key point about the importance of the peace process and what is needed to achieve it. It has often struck me when dealing with the politics of this region—this is not something that is confined to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories—that it is always easier for people to return to violence than it is to make the difficult compromises and decisions necessary to move the peace process forward. That is why, throughout history, those who have achieved peace processes are held in such high regard.

[Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)]

Many of my constituents will be disappointed to hear from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office the rather well used and tired phrase “proportionate response”. Perhaps the Minister, who I know is a decent man, could advise me on what I say to my constituents about what the FCO regards as a proportionate response to three teenagers being murdered and missiles being fired at Israel on a daily basis.

[Hugh Robertson]

I am sorry that my hon. Friend feels that way. Let me be absolutely clear about this: it is utterly unacceptable that people in the Gaza strip fire missiles at Israeli citizens. As he knows, I attended a funeral in January on the edge of the Negev. Precautions had to be taken because we were under threat from missile attacks, which is utterly unacceptable in any way, shape or form. The correct response to the kidnapping and murder of three teenagers is to find the perpetrators and to bring them to justice. We expect exactly the same response in that part of the world as we would find here—no more and no less.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Like everyone else, we must condemn the terrible murder of these three teenagers, and the same must apply to Palestinian teenagers as well. I ask the Minister to urge restraint on the Israeli Government, because we have a volatile situation throughout the middle east, and we do not want to give to these terrorist organisations any cause to use the Palestinian-Israeli situation as an excuse for further violence.

[Hugh Robertson]

Absolutely, yes. Everything that we and leaders right the way across the world have done is about ensuring that the reaction to this is properly targeted and—to use that slightly woolly term—proportionate. The key thing is that all the resources are targeted at finding those responsible, but that will clearly not be the case if people are pursuing other agendas. Such a targeted campaign will, I have no doubt, be carried out by the Israeli Government. The Palestinian Authority must play a full part in helping them to achieve that. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that that was clearly the case when I was there 10 days ago.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

I applaud the Minister for his response to these appalling murders, but with respect may I say that he did not answer as fully as he might the question from the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman)? These murders take place against the background of the release of hundreds of Palestinian prisoners by the Israelis as a signal of good intent for the peace process, and of a constant stream of hate and abuse from state-sponsored TV and media in the Palestinian Authority. Surely this House and Her Majesty’s Government need to make it clear to the Palestinian Authority that this background of hate and contempt for Israel must stop if we are to have a meaningful peace process.

[Hugh Robertson]

I am very sorry if I have not given my hon. Friend the reassurance that he needs that the British Government are absolutely 100% committed to making that message clear to the Palestinian Government. We have made it absolutely clear to the Palestinian authorities that that sort of behaviour is unacceptable. As I have already said, I did not realise that there was any truth in these allegations. I have been specifically reassured that there is not. If the International Development Committee has evidence that that is not the case, we will be keen to see it. To be fair, when the technocratic Government were formed, they were very clear that they would sign up to the Quartet principles, which is an internationally agreed standard. They were absolutely clear and unequivocal on that, and they gave those undertakings to us, the Americans and the Israeli Government.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

The whole House is right to condemn these truly horrific murders, but we should not allow them to diminish the quest for peace in the middle east. What measures are the Palestinian unity Government taking to ensure accountable and effective governance to bring about that transformative change that the Minister talks about to renew the Palestinian economy, create jobs, bring about hope for the Palestinian people and ensure that funds are not diverted to terror activities?

[Hugh Robertson]

There is a whole bundle of questions there. The approach of the Palestinian Government on economic regeneration is led by Prime Minister Hamdallah, whom I met during my recent visit. He is English educated and extremely impressive. He is very fixed on what needs to be done to regenerate the Palestinian Authority. He is absolutely right to point to the need to eliminate corruption in the Palestinian Authority, because that has bedevilled the region and its prospects for economic growth for some time. The Palestinian Authority have given us a series of assurances that they understand the importance of that and that they are taking the necessary action.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of the murdered teenagers. A constant stream of evidence substantiates the fact that UK taxpayers’ money is finding its way to the evil terrorist organisation Hamas. Will my right hon. Friend undertake to look again at all the evidence—from the Select Committee on International Development, from Israel and from the Palestinian Authority areas—with the objective that not a single penny of UK taxpayers’ money should find its way to the evil terrorist organisation Hamas?

[Hugh Robertson]

Let me give my hon. Friend some comfort. It is absolutely the position of the Government that UK taxpayers’ money should not go to fund terrorists. That is 100% the case. If, following the International Development Committee’s visit to the region, evidence has emerged that points to the fact that that is not the case, it would be a very serious matter and I can give him an undertaking that that is something into which the Secretary of State will look as a matter of urgency.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister’s words that the best way to resolve this issue is to ensure that the peace process moves forward and that a viable two-state solution is found. With that in mind, may I ask him what conversations he has had with the American Government on moving the peace process forward? At best, President Obama has been rather lacklustre in this area, but the process has moved forward under Secretary of State Kerry. What conversations has the Minister had with our American allies about these terrible events and about getting the peace process moving forward again?

[Hugh Robertson]

Like others, we should place it on the record—indeed one can never do it enough—how much we appreciate the work of the American Secretary of State. He has been tireless in his pursuit of this process in a way that no other American Secretary of State in my lifetime has been. Ultimately, he has become frustrated by the actions of both parties. He has called for a pause in the process for both parties to face up to the consequences of not pursuing the peace agreement, which, I believe, will be very profound for the whole region. I urge him to join us and everyone else to do everything we can not to escalate the situation further and to encourage both parties to get back to the negotiating table.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

I listened carefully to what the Minister said about the response of the Palestinian unity Government. Perhaps one of the things that they can do to demonstrate that they are committed to peace is to work closely with the Israeli authorities to bring to justice the people who perpetrated this crime. If it turns out that there is persuasive evidence that Hamas was indeed behind these evil murders, will the Minister return to the Dispatch Box to set out what implications that has for the British Government’s recognition of that Palestinian unity Government?

--- Later in debate ---

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes. In a sense it is a puzzle in two parts. The first thing is who was responsible for this crime. The Israelis are very clear about who they think is responsible. The Palestinian Authority have indicated that that view may be sensible. We need to find out who the perpetrators were, and then we need to find out what, if any, association they may have with the technocratic Government. At the moment, the technocratic Government are absolutely clear that they are fully signed up to the Quartet principles and that they are a non-violent Government and have no contact with Hamas. Indeed, talking to members of Fatah, it is clear that their relationship with Hamas has been desperate. They hate Hamas and regard it as being responsible for the splits that have occurred, so there is some small reason for hope.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

Very little shocks me about what occurs in the middle east, but the depravity of the murder of these young men is beyond comprehension for many of my constituents and for me. The Minister asserted that no money from British taxpayers goes to Hamas, but he has now accepted the position of the International Development Committee that that might be the case. Will he put his efforts into facilitating a meeting of a cross-party delegation of MPs so that we can speak to the DFID Minister and present the evidence we have been talking about for many years already?

[Hugh Robertson]

I gave the answer that I did to an earlier question because I was assured, as I have been in the past, that there were no grounds for believing that. If a Select Committee of this House has uncovered evidence that firmly proves that that is not the case, that is a very serious issue. I can offer my hon. Friend a cast-iron guarantee that we will take that up. Indeed, the very fact that it has been found by a Select Committee will ensure that the Department responsible has to answer those questions.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Would the Minister care to reflect that, in rightly praising Secretary of State Kerry, he might have been slightly unfair to Madeleine Albright? Will he, in the context of this situation, tell us not only what might be proportionate for either side but what signals either side might send to the other that would advance rather than regress the situation?

[Hugh Robertson]

In my remarks, I intended no slight to Madeleine Albright. I simply meant that the most recent iteration of all this has been led by John Kerry with extraordinary energy and vigour, which is why I pay tribute to what he has done. As for the second part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, we will of course look at that very closely.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

The purpose of terrorism is to terrorise. Does the Minister agree that the people who carried out these murders—a minor act of genocide, in a way—are no friends of the peace process and certainly no friends of the Palestinian cause?

[Hugh Robertson]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. If someone wanted to derail the peace process and the prospects of peace, I could think of no better way to do it than to carry out such actions. One needs only to go there or to watch events from here to sense the angst that this has caused. That absolutely shows the importance of getting the peace process back on track.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

My constituent, Rev. Pat Clegg, is a frequent visitor to the west bank and a frequent correspondent with me on Israeli-Palestinian matters. She wrote to me last week, deeply concerned about how universities, colleges and newspaper offices were being stormed, as she put it, by Israeli forces searching for the missing teenagers. Although I am mindful of the significant challenges in securing accurate information in the circumstances, is the Minister aware of those reports and can he comment on them?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes. I am very aware of the impact that any form of military action has on life in the west bank, as are many others. My hon. Friend’s constituent and others have properly drawn the international community’s attention to that. On the other hand, we have to understand that Israel is the one liberal democracy in that part of the world and that it lies in an arc of countries where instability is everywhere. Security is Israel’s key concern, and we understand that, but it is important that the actions taken in this regard are precisely targeted to identify and deal with the perpetrators and not a wider objective.

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

These appalling and heinous acts of terror have been equally condemned on both sides of the House and by all apart from Hamas. Further to the Minister’s response to my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer), may I question how he can draw an equivalence between such an act taking place here and such an act taking place in Israel when it comes to a proportionate response to bring the perpetrators to justice? When Hamas and terrorists are throwing rockets over the border and on to innocent civilians and when Hamas itself sees Israeli teenagers as legitimate targets for terrorist attacks, how can we draw any equivalence when it comes to the response?

[Hugh Robertson]

The correct response as regards the war on terror, which we have faced in this country for many years through the threat from Irish republicans, is to target what we do very precisely, to avoid escalation and to abide by the rule of law. That is precisely how we relieve the underlying causes of conflict. If one goes further than that, the lessons of history show that that inevitably stokes the conflict and makes things worse.

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

Notwithstanding the Minister’s remarks about the need for restraint, does he not agree that Israel faces a toxic combination of brutal terrorism, as revealed in this particular incident, and of rocket attacks from Gaza and that as a sovereign country it has the absolute right to defend and protect its citizens against these threats?

[Hugh Robertson]

In a sense, I agree with both parts of my hon. Friend’s question. Israel absolutely faces a toxic combination of such factors and, as I have said, it is the one liberal democracy in that part of the world and is threatened by a sea of instability around it. We would absolutely expect the state of Israel to protect its citizens, but the point that I am making—do not get this wrong—is that it needs to do that in a way that precisely targets the response at those who are responsible for this action and not at a wider political aim.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

In view of this sickening crime and the celebration of the kidnapping in state-sponsored Palestinian media, what assurances can the Minister give me that the words of condemnation given by President Abbas to an international audience will be repeated for his domestic audience?

[Hugh Robertson]

I think I can give my hon. Friend that assurance, because I was in the west bank when it happened and the domestic price that President Abbas was paying for taking that stance internationally was abundantly clear. He is absolutely doing what the international community wants to see him do and we expect the Palestinian technocratic Government to live up to their responsibility to co-operate fully in security terms with the Government of Israel.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement today. He will know that Hamas is backed by Iran, as is Hezbollah in Lebanon. Iran also backs President Assad’s horrific regime in Syria as well as the Maliki Government in Iraq, with its sectarian violence. Will the Minister assure the House that Iran will not be involved in any further middle eastern issues without first giving up terrorism?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. In a sense, his question sheds some light on precisely why the Israeli Government are concerned about security and are right to be concerned about security.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that no moral equivalency can or should be drawn with other incidents? This was a deliberate and calculated abduction and murder of teenagers. Does he agree that such wickedness cannot go unpunished and will he and Her Majesty’s Government support the Israeli Government if they seek to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure of Hamas, which is, after all, an entity that destroys and seeks to destroy its own people when they disagree with it, as well as Israeli youths, children and other victims of strikes from the air and on land?

[Hugh Robertson]

In a sense, my hon. Friend makes the point that I was moving towards in my answers to some of the earlier questions: an escalation of the crisis in that part of the world will serve only the men and women of violence on both sides. If there were to be a further escalation, that would absolutely play into the hands of all those who seek to sabotage the peace process and to pursue their aims through violence and not through peace.

Burma (Persecution of Minorities)

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Wednesday 25th June 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) on securing this debate on an important issue. Having said that, I start by apologising to him, because I do not have ministerial responsibility for Burma. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr Swire), holds that responsibility, and he is travelling. I am merely standing in for him. I have had a crash course in Burmese politics overnight.

One of the things that has struck me in listening to this debate—there have been extremely good contributions on all sides—is that there is a classic Foreign Office dilemma here. I think everyone would agree that the country is in transition. There is therefore a very difficult judgment on whether to stand off it and criticise it or get involved in it and try to influence and affect that change. Doing that, however, can open one up to many of the criticisms that are levelled at the UK Government—that we take too rose-tinted a view of the situation or that we are not tough enough. These are complicated diplomatic matters, and I absolutely understand many of the concerns that have been expressed. I will try to pick them up and answer them.

It is fair to say—I think everyone has acknowledged this—that the last three years in Burma have been a period of remarkable change. The country is undertaking an extraordinarily complex transition. It had an authoritarian military regime and is trying to move to a system of democratic government. The economy was centrally directed and, as the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) pointed out, is moving to be market-oriented—hence the Foreign Office guidelines. The country has come out of literally decades of conflict, and the good news is that there is peace in much of the country. As the hon. Member for Bradford East said, more than 1,000 political prisoners have been released and there is greater freedom of expression, but neither of those is in itself enough. The judgment is that the 2012 by-elections were credible, but there is clearly an awful lot more to do. The initial ceasefire agreements that have been signed between the Burmese Government and 10 of the 11 major armed groups appear to be holding.

I can sense that some will say that that is typical of the Foreign Office’s complacent approach, but it absolutely is not. Let me recognise at the outset that serious challenges remain. There are political prisoners who are still in jail and more activists have been detained in 2014 as repressive laws have failed to be amended in line with international standards. Small-scale conflict continues in many ethnic areas and there are worrying reports of incidences of sexual violence, which all Members have highlighted. The UN and other agencies struggle to gain unhindered humanitarian access to Rakhine state, where the humanitarian and political situation remains deeply concerning. I would not for a moment pretend that everything is rosy in this garden, and I would not want people to think that we have a rose-tinted view of the matter. We really do not; we absolutely recognise many of the issues that have been highlighted this morning.

There is a view, which I understand, having spent last night looking into this in some depth, that the parliamentary elections in 2015 are the watershed moment for Burma’s transition. It is absolutely incumbent on us here to try to create the conditions for credible elections to take place that involve all the minorities in Burma. I hope that will enable the Burmese people to take part in a democratic process where all their views count. We will be doing everything we can to build and reinforce Burma’s electoral network.

Before I talk about Rakhine, I will try to answer the various questions that the hon. Member for Bradford East and others asked. He first asked me about the Government’s action plan. It might help if I try to address his criticism that the UK’s approach to Burma has been too soft. We have consistently raised the importance of the reform process and human rights at the highest level. It was at the top of the agenda at the Prime Minister’s meeting with the Burmese President last year, and my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon has consistently raised his concerns directly with the Burmese Government, including during his most recent visit to Burma in January. During that visit, he met separately with leaders of the Rohingya and Rakhine. The Foreign Secretary raised our concerns again in a call with his Burmese counterpart. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon did so again with the Burmese deputy Foreign Minister as recently as 12 June. As the hon. Member for Bristol East said, the Burmese ambassador—this happens relatively unusually—was summoned to the Foreign Office so that we could express our concern about the conditions in Rakhine state. I hope that gives Members confidence. I cannot think of a country in the portfolio that I directly look after where there has been that level of pressure. It is unusual, and I hope it gives Members some comfort that we are taking the matter seriously.

The hon. Member for Bradford East asked about the Burmese Government’s action plan. We have constantly called on them to share that action plan with us, and I regret that they have not yet done so. It is therefore difficult to form an impression of exactly what is in it. He raised the question of war crimes, and the hon. Member for Bristol East generously paid tribute to the Foreign Secretary’s initiative on that. Not in every area are the answers to many of these problems easy, but at least with crimes of sexual violence we have had the largest global initiative. The hon. Member for Bristol East was good enough to say that she had met the Burmese delegation that came over. I cannot remember, but I think some 140 Governments were represented in that initiative in some way, shape or form and enormous numbers of people have signed the declaration that came out of it. We are all clear that signing the declaration is one thing, but action and delivery are the crucial test.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister is right that it is all very well to make verbal commitments, which are a good start, but the message has to get to perpetrators at every level—lower ranks, sergeants, officers—so that it filters down. Anyone who commits a crime must know that they will be accountable under law, which is not currently happening.

[Hugh Robertson]

The hon. Gentleman, who has extensive military experience, is absolutely right. He would have been interested to hear the absolutely spellbinding speech made by the Australian Chief of the Defence Force on exactly that issue and what needs to happen to ensure success. All those who were there for that speech heard that message loud and clear. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right—I would not say anything else—that making it happen will be the real challenge. It is an extraordinary achievement to have signed the declaration, but that is the easy part and making it happen is different.

The hon. Member for Bristol East mentioned the census, which the British Government, along with other members of the international community, did indeed help to fund because we believed that it would be crucial to the development of Burma as a whole. Reports from international observers suggest that, with the exclusion of Rakhine and parts of Kachin, the process was largely carried out effectively. The Government are deeply disappointed, however, that the Burmese Government simply reneged on their long-standing assurance that all individuals would have the right to self-identify their ethnic origin. That remains a point of dispute and a disappointment, which leads to a judgment of whether it was right to support the census. Looking at Burma as a whole, it is a better country for the delivery of that census, but the decision to prevent the Rohingya from self-identifying is a straightforward contravention of international norms.

The hon. Member for Bradford East asked whether I felt “snubbed”. I am not aware that the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon, who was there, did feel snubbed.

Political prisoners are a matter of great concern that was key during the Prime Minister’s discussions. We have urged both the Burmese Government and Parliament to repeal all existing laws that allow the Government to imprison political prisoners, and all laws that are not in line with democratic standards. We will continue to put pressure on the Government to ensure that democratic activists are able freely to voice their opinions without fear of arrest.

The hon. Gentlemen asked about military engagement, which was also raised by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). The focus of our defence engagement is on democratic accountability, international law and human rights. Aung San Suu Kyi has made it clear that the Burmese military, for better or worse, is a core political force in Burma and will be key to the process of political reform, which again returns to the judgment of whether to stand back and criticise the reform if it does not succeed or to engage with it and try to affect the situation for the better. We have tried to do the latter and will continue to use our leverage over the Burmese military to get them to tackle issues such as child soldiers, and to bring sexual violence to an end once and for all. I should just add that the EU arms embargo on Burma remains in place following the majority of sanctions being lifted in April 2013.

I was asked about an international investigation. It is absolutely our view that all allegations of human rights abuses must be dealt with immediately through a clear, independent, transparent investigation and, crucially, a prosecutorial process that meets international standards. We have made and will continue to make those concerns clear to the Burmese Government. It is absolutely the Government’s approach to seek an end to those violations and to prevent their further escalation irrespective of whether they fit the definition of specific international crimes.

[Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)]

I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the debate. We should pay tribute to our Speaker, who has visited Burma on several occasions and has helped to draw attention to the problems. Nearly 30 years ago when I was a Minister, I went out to meet Sir Nicholas Fenn, the then ambassador, who made the claim, which the Minister kindly repeated today, that to be engaged with people is better than to be disengaged. We should pay tribute to the progress that has been made and make it clear that the Burmese people will benefit if Burma pays attention to international norms and applies them to allow its people, including the Rohingya, to prosper in their own country.

[Hugh Robertson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention, with which I entirely agree. The longer I spend in the Foreign Office, the more I begin to realise that engagement with countries that do not accept our norms and standards is uncomfortable; there is no doubt about that, but I am absolutely convinced that engagement is the correct approach. If we fail to engage and simply stand off from a problem and criticise, we will lose both moral authority and the authority to try to influence. Sometimes, even when engagement does occur, influence does not come from making a lot of noise. Change is often effected by years of quiet diplomacy and initiatives such as those mentioned by the hon. Gentleman and those undertaken by the Speaker and others, which play an important role.

[Mr Ward]

Most people would understand the dilemma to which the Minister refers. The frustration, particularly for the Rohingya, is that when they say that things are going badly for them in Rakhine, they are constantly told that things are going well elsewhere. They say, “Violations and murders are taking place,” but the response is, “Yes, but things are going well over here. Be patient.” It is difficult to be patient when crimes are being committed against a number of ethnic minority groups. The continual message is, “Put up with it, because we are making progress in so many other areas.”

[Hugh Robertson]

I entirely understand that frustration. The hope is that a policy of constructive engagement will help to move the whole piece along. I acknowledge that the situation may move much more slowly than we all would want, and that those who are affected will be annoyed and frustrated by the pace of change and will wonder why more is not happening internationally. I understand all the frustrations that the hon. Gentleman properly articulates, but I am not saying that progress is fast enough; it is far too slow and the situation has not moved at the desired pace.

I hope that those who arrive at the hon. Gentleman’s surgery will be given some comfort to know that the matter is being raised in a balanced and sensible way in today’s debate. I hope that he will be able to point to the Government’s actions and the assurances that I have been able to give him, and to the fact that we recognise that a huge amount of work still needs to be done. In a sense, this covers the last point in his excellent speech, which was about the sense of disempowerment and frustration at the pace of progress. I understand and acknowledge that the affected must feel that way, but I hope that I have provided some assurance that we are taking the matter seriously. If we consider the list of responses, including those from the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Minister of State, and the summoning of the Burmese ambassador, that is quite a catalogue of actions, and I do not think many other countries receive such a high level of diplomatic attention.

The hon. Member for Strangford raised, as he always does, the plight of Christians, with his customary attention to detail. He also mentioned Kachin province. During his recent visit, the Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon, made a particular point of asking to see members of the Kachin Baptist Convention, which is the largest religious organisation in Kachin state, and he discussed a large range of issues with them. He raised our concerns about the Christian community and other human rights issues with senior members of the Burmese Government. He made a particular point of calling for religious tolerance and dialogue during his speech at the British Council. Earlier this month, we also welcomed Archbishop Bo to London for the preventing sexual violence initiative summit.

As I have told the hon. Member for Strangford in our many conversations about my area of responsibility, the Foreign Office gets an enormous number of letters on the treatment of Christians around the world. We take the issue seriously, and it is definitely moving up the agenda. He knows from debates we have had—indeed, we had one yesterday—that I have particularly prioritised the issue. I am off to Lebanon on Sunday, and I will make a particular point of seeing members of the Christian community on Monday. This really is something that we take very seriously.

We have talked a bit about the preventing sexual violence initiative summit. As a specific result of the summit, funding of £300,000 is earmarked for projects in Burma offering greater support and protection to survivors of sexual violence.

In her speech, the hon. Member for Bristol East highlighted many of the issues that have been raised this morning. She said there is a danger that the narrative of progress will breed complacency. I hope my response has given her some assurance that that is absolutely not the case, and that we realise the problems we face.

The hon. Lady talked briefly about the intermarriage laws. The issue is very much on the radar, and she is right to highlight it. We are concerned about the possible implications of the proposed legislation, and we are following the ongoing discussions through the embassy in Rangoon. We have already raised our concerns with the Burmese Government, and we want to make sure all draft laws are in line with international standards. We want to make it absolutely clear that respect for the rights of women and for the freedom of religion and belief must be guaranteed. To give the hon. Lady further reassurance, let me add that the EU also raised concerns at the recent EU-Burma human rights dialogue.

I hope I have covered the various points that have been raised. Let me finish by returning to where I started half an hour or so ago and thanking the hon. Member for Bradford East for raising this issue; he and other Members are absolutely right to raise it. The Government know that much remains to be done and that progress is not guaranteed; there is an enormous way to go. However, it is worth reflecting—this goes back to a remark made earlier—on a comment made by the International Development Committee in March:

“Progress will not happen by standing back, adopting a cynical attitude to change.”

It really is important to have a constructive agenda if we are to try to force the changes we all want to see. The best way to help achieve our vision of a democratic Burma that enshrines freedom and human rights for all is to engage with the parties there. I understand that that will be a frustrating process, and that progress may well not seem quick enough for representatives of minority groups. However, engagement is the key to helping Burma embed reform and to encouraging further meaningful progress towards peaceful and democratic government.

Human Rights: Saudi Arabia

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 24th June 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

I thank the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Katy Clark) for securing this debate. I join the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas), in offering sincere condolences to the family and friends of Nahid Almanea, the Saudi Arabian student who was tragically killed in Colchester last Tuesday. I am sure I speak for everyone in saying that our thoughts are with her family.

Before I address the individual contributions made in the debate, it may be helpful to set out some of the current political dynamics that influence our relationship with Saudi Arabia. The UK’s relationship with Saudi Arabia is a long one, and this debate is timely, as the kingdom prepares for the holy month of Ramadan, Saudi Arabia of course being the worldwide centre of the Islamic faith for the UK’s near 3 million Muslim citizens. Many thousands of Britons will visit Saudi Arabia this month during the Hajj period. Some 16,000 Saudi students are currently studying in the UK. As others have mentioned, the UK also has a strong bilateral trade relationship with Saudi Arabia. I am not sure whether the hon. Member for Wrexham will believe me, but I can reassure him that that is not the only thing that guides our relationship. Saudi Arabia is a key strategic partner in the region and our relationship is not simply about selling military hardware. Both the UK and Saudi Arabia have seats on the UN Human Rights Council, which is one of the many areas in which we work with the Saudi Government on issues of mutual interest.

All that said, today’s debate has shown some of the fault lines and judgments involved in the relationship. We have a frank and robust relationship with Saudi Arabia and the breadth and depth of the relationship matters to both sides. The relationship is at its most acute where we have shared priorities in foreign policy, defence, energy and counter-terrorism, and is underpinned by close personal and institutional ties. That does not mean that any particular issue is off limits, however. When we have concerns, we make them clear to the Saudi Arabian authorities, just as the Saudi Arabian Government are frank with us when they disagree. The review of the Muslim Brotherhood, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham (Daniel Kawczynski), is one such area.

To make it clear and put it on the record, we regularly make our views on human rights known through the UN’s universal periodic review process and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s annual human rights and democracy report, which many hon. Members mentioned. Saudi Arabia continues to be a country of concern and we represent those concerns to Saudi Arabia at the very highest level. However, we have to balance that with the point my hon. Friend made: this is a country with widely held conservative social values. In a sense, the judgment we always have to make in trying to make progress is whether it is best to highlight a case publicly and make a fuss or to try to effect change through private diplomacy. We will come to the princesses in a minute, but the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran made the point that highlighting the case in public actually made their conditions worse, so standing up and shouting at people is not always the best way to effect change.

Let me go through the various contributions and try to address some of the points that were made. I have touched on the issue of the Saudi princesses, and the Government line will not, I am afraid, move from the one I have set out, but that does not mean these issues are not raised. I would absolutely encourage the hon. Lady to make use of the offer to go to speak to the Saudi embassy. As I say, however, there is always a real judgment over whether change is best effected by public or private diplomacy. Where we need to conduct private diplomacy, we are not shy about doing so.

[Katy Clark]

I would just advise the Minister that private representations have been made for more than a decade, but they do not seem to have been successful. Obviously I encourage the Government to use any avenues available to them to continue to raise this case.

[Hugh Robertson]

It is a point well made and one that I have clearly taken on board.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham for his work with the all-party group, and I wish him good fortune in expanding the number of people on his visit next time round. However, there is a serious point here. He is absolutely right that although Saudi Arabia is a deeply conservative country, powerful elements in Saudi society are trying to change the way it approaches these things. By far the best way for people in this House to help to effect change in Saudi Arabia is to engage constructively with the system to see what we can do to help, but that does not mean that we have slavishly to agree with everything that is said or to accept every single explanation. Going there and questioning things is absolutely the right approach.

My hon. Friend helpfully highlighted some of the improvements in women’s rights. He mentioned the appointment of female Shura council members. There is also the right to vote and run in the municipal elections in 2015, which is the first time that option has been open to women. In 2013—the last reporting year—more women than men were in tertiary education, which is an extraordinary statistic. Many had enrolled via the King’s scholarship programme. In terms of effecting change over the longer period, that is an extraordinarily encouraging statistic.

It is always a pleasure to hear the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) speak. He asked specifically about migrant workers, and I absolutely acknowledge that there is some way to go. In a sense, however, as with other issues we have touched on, there is some progress, albeit not enough. He will be aware that the recent legal reforms have tried to improve migrant workers’ most basic rights. Such workers are now paid at least monthly and they have access to their own identity documents.

The hon. Gentleman also highlighted the issue of domestic workers, and they must now have at least nine hours’ rest a day and a day off a week. Those are small, incremental steps and they are not enough, but at least some progress is being made. In addition, Saudi Arabia finally became a member of the International Association of Labour Inspection on 12 June. I therefore take the hon. Gentleman’s point that not enough has been done and he is right to highlight that; again, however, there is some progress.

At the risk of annoying you, Mr Gray, let me touch on the issue of ISIL. I think it is clear that the ISIL we thought we were dealing with two weeks ago is not the one we are dealing with now. There are terrorist elements in it, but there are also a considerable number of Ba’athists, ex-Saddamists and tribal members—it is a very different body from the one we originally thought we were dealing with. However, let me move swiftly back to the subject of the debate.

On many occasions, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and I have discussed Christians’ role in the middle east and what they are subjected to. As I have told him, I have made it a mission of mine to make contact with Christian communities when I am in the middle east. Indeed, I took time out during a meeting of the international contact group on Libya to visit the Holy See to co-ordinate our activities in the region. So far, I have managed to make contact with the Coptic Christians in Egypt and Christians in Jordan, and I am going to see members of the Christian community in Lebanon next week. I give the hon. Gentleman an undertaking that I will continue to raise the plight of Christians in the area. I have enormous sympathy with his point of view.

I thank the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) for his very balanced contribution, which, in a sense, showed the dilemma that underpins the whole debate. He raised a number of cases, which I will be happy to take up if he wants to write to me. I will look into them personally and get him a proper answer.

The hon. Member for Wrexham returned to a theme that many people have touched on. The difficulty is not only striking the right balance, but finding the right way to pursue our foreign policy objectives. Having spent a year in the Foreign Office, I am not necessarily sure I have spotted a contradiction between the desire to promote Britain’s commercial interests around the world and a values-based foreign policy. Where the issue is most acute—to be completely honest with him—is over arms exports, and we rigorously follow the guidelines. The Foreign Affairs Committee hauls the Foreign Secretary in front of it at least once a year to go over the issue, and the Committees on Arms Export Controls—CAEC, as they are known colloquially—do a similar job. As a Foreign Office Minister, I am very conscious—I deal with them regularly—of the legal advice and rules that underpin our decisions, and I can promise the hon. Gentleman that we follow them scrupulously.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the Foreign Office policy on ministerial visits to countries of concern. As I said, in a sense, in my answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury and Atcham, the Government would encourage people to engage with countries of concern. I really believe—this is a self-fulfilling element of being a Foreign Office Minister—that, through contact with countries, we give ourselves the best chance of effecting change.

I have talked about arms export licences. As I say, we abide by the rules. I appreciate that the assurances I have given about the princesses will not be enough, but there is a judgment as to whether to pursue the issue publicly or privately. Unless there are any other issues, I will return to where I started: I thank the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran for bringing about this important debate, and I thank all Members who have taken part in it.

Rwandan Genocide

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Thursday 8th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

This has been a moving, powerful and constructive couple of hours. At the outset, it is appropriate to join other Members in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree (Mr Newmark) on securing this important debate. I wish him a very happy birthday on behalf of us all. I thank all Members who have participated. I thought that this might be one of those afternoons when the House was at its best, but it has exceeded itself. It has been fascinating for me to listen to the strong support for Rwanda.

Everyone would acknowledge that Rwanda is a country that can divide opinion, but the support for it has been clear today, from people who know a lot about the country and have visited it. I was struck by the quality of the contributions and the excellent point made by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) when he said that Rwanda is now in the Commonwealth.

Perhaps I should apologise for not being the Minister with responsibility for Africa, my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Mark Simmonds), who, with the Foreign Secretary, attended the commemorations in Rwanda and is on the continent at the moment, but this does have a personal resonance for me, as in 1994 I was serving in Bosnia. I was on loan to the Foreign Office from the Army and I was looking after the British detachment in Sarajevo that was responsible for trying to secure the aid that flew into the city when it was under siege. Many Members have made the point that the world reacted a little late to the situation in Rwanda—we would all agree with that—and I suspect that part of the problem may have been that the world’s attention was focused on the Balkans and not on Africa.

Let me deal with some of the contributions, starting with the one made by my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree, who did a good job at the top of the debate of reminding us of the chilling events of 20 years ago and then drawing the lessons out in respect of the importance of R2P. Let me join others in wishing him well with his charity, thanking him for setting it up and congratulating him on that excellent initiative.

The hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) spoke movingly about the special relationship between Rwanda and the UK, giving us some valuable insights on the basis of his visit. I was struck by the positive impression he gave of the country, as others have done, and of its achievements since that awful process 20 years ago.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) also gave us some personal impressions of the memorial site and talked about the events leading up to the genocide, the mass nature of it, the speed with which it happened and international inaction. He rightly draws lessons from that, but I fear that they are pretty regular lessons from conflicts of that sort right the way around the world. Indeed, one could have said many of the same things about the conflict in which I was involved in Bosnia. I agree with him that 20 years on is a very good time to encourage Rwandan society to use that experience to develop civil society.

It is always a pleasure to hear the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) speak and I would like to join him in praising the work of the Aegis Trust, as many others have done. He asked a question about the veto power; it is a good question and it is central to what might happen. That French proposal is part of a wider package and the wider debate on Security Council reform. He will doubtless be pleased to hear that I can assure him that the UK wholeheartedly supports the principle that the Security Council must act to stop mass atrocities and crimes against humanity. I am happy to put on the record the fact that I cannot envisage any set of circumstances—I have been thinking about this over the past hour—in which we would use a British veto to stop such an action. In a sense, the difficulty with the proposal was set out in the intervention made by my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree: the problem with reforming the United Nations is always getting the agreement of the five permanent members of the Security Council and agreement more generally. As we have seen on Syria, the likelihood is that any such initiative—clearly we have not yet put it to a vote—would attract a veto from other powers, but the principle is certainly correct.

I join my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) in paying tribute to the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), who really did introduce Rwanda to many of us. She made some excellent points about the development of its economy, and I loved the term “villagisation” and what she said about encouraging exports. My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy), who has been widely praised for his command of Swahili, made a good point about the BBC World Service, the impartial reporting by the BBC and the role the BBC played in bringing this conflict to the world’s attention. He is absolutely right about not forgetting the survivors and about the benefits of early intervention, and I thank him very much for the work he is undertaking with Project Umubano.

I particularly congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Andrew Jones) on his work teaching business skills, because if we look at the economic figures in Rwanda, we see that he is clearly having a considerable effect very early on—the benefits of early intervention. He rightly talked about the importance of community engagement.

The hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Pamela Nash) is entirely right about the lessons of 1994 and early engagement. I should love to be able to tell her confidently that the lesson has been learnt and the mistake will never be repeated, but, given the way in which the world works, I suspect that that would be over-confident. It could be argued, however, that the key driver in the intervention in the Libyan conflict was the threat of a massacre. She can take some comfort from the fact that people are now thinking in such terms, and that the work of R2P, and other work that is taking place, has made the international community much more focused on the issue than it was 20 years ago. I do not pretend that this is a perfect world, but I think that progress has been made.

I thank the hon. Member for Wrexham for a very elegant summary, and for making the point about the Commonwealth. I agreed with everything he said, and I thank him not only for what he said, but for the way in which he said it.

The events of 20 years ago were sufficiently important to this country for us to send both the Foreign Secretary and the Minister with responsibility for Africa to attend the genocide commemorations in Kigali on 7 April, to pay tribute to the victims and to demonstrate our commitment to Rwanda. I am delighted that so many members of the all-party group were there as well.

In the past 20 years, Rwanda has made astonishing progress, and I use that word advisedly. Poverty levels have been lowered, the Rwandan economy continues to grow, and more and more Rwandans are finding work. Access to education has increased substantially, and girls are given the same access as boys.

It should be a matter of some pride to us that this country has been Rwanda’s long-standing friend. We have been one of its development partners for many years, and we will continue to be a close partner. However, as many have acknowledged, there is much left to do. We will continue to urge the Rwandan Government to address human rights concerns such as freedom of expression, and to ensure that political space is opened. It is important for Rwanda to use its growing confidence to be a force for good in the region and on the international stage. We would have an extraordinarily positive legacy if it were to do that against the backdrop of the dreadful events of 20 years ago.

Oral Answers to Questions

Hugh Robertson Excerpts

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of respect for freedom of religion or belief worldwide and how it can be improved.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

The Foreign Office addresses freedom of religion or belief across the world through our bilateral relationships, through multilateral organisations, such as the United Nations, and through the Foreign Secretary’s human rights advisory group.

[Rushanara Ali]

Rohingya Muslims in Rakhine state face discrimination and a protracted humanitarian crisis, compounded by the failure of the Burmese Government to recognise their right to citizenship. What action is the Minister taking to prevent the Burmese Government from using their census, which receives some £10 million of UK assistance, to discriminate against Rohingya Muslims by refusing to recognise their religious and ethnic identity?

[Hugh Robertson]

The hon. Lady’s point is well made. The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr Swire), expressed our strong concerns about conditions there during his visit to Burma in January. He called the Minister, Khin Yi, on 26 March, and summoned the Burmese ambassador only yesterday to make these representations.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

In the middle east, with the exception of Israel where there is a lot of freedom of religion and the Christian community has increased by 1,000% since the state of Israel came into being, there is a lack of freedom of religion. What are the Government attempting to do to resolve that?

[Hugh Robertson]

Not least in response to concerns expressed across the House through the Foreign Office’s mail bag and at Question Time, we have made a priority of visiting religious leaders throughout the middle east during visits. Recently, I have seen the Copts in Egypt and the Catholic community in Jordan, and called in at the Holy See when I was in Rome for the Libya conference, to speak to them about their concerns.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

18. I am sure the Minister is aware that the erosion of freedom of religious practice is an issue in a number of Commonwealth countries, including Malaysia, where the Malay word for God has effectively been banned, making the Bible illegal, and Brunei, where the introduction of sharia law has caused huge anxiety among the sizeable Filipino Catholic community there. Will the Minister ensure that these issues are raised not only in the forums to which he referred but through the Commonwealth forums, to ensure that there is real freedom of religion in Commonwealth countries?

[Hugh Robertson]

I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. The Minister of State responsible for the Commonwealth, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Mr Swire), has got that message clearly. When I mentioned the multilateral institutions, I could not list them all, but clearly the Commonwealth is key among them.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Over the past 50 years the Jewish population in Arab countries has shrunk by 836,000 people, who are all refugees. At the same time there are some 836,000 Palestinian refugees. What is my right hon. Friend’s reaction to the fact that more than $2 billion has been spent supporting the Palestinian refugees, but zero on Israeli refugees?

[Hugh Robertson]

Our allocations in this area are driven by need. I thank my hon. Friend for the various pieces of literature that he has provided to me, which I will follow up separately. There is a straightforward assessment of need. The situation of refugees, not only Jewish, not only Palestinian, across the middle east, particularly in Jordan and Lebanon—it is worth reminding the House that we have these questions at a time when the millionth Syrian refugee has arrived in Beirut—is a matter that we are addressing as a priority.

[Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

As we approach Easter, we know that millions of Christians across the world will be prevented from celebrating or will risk persecution for doing so. New research by the Pew research centre suggests that persecution of people who practise their religion increased in almost every major region of the world in recent years. In the light of such concerning reports, what specific steps are the UK Government taking as a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council to ensure that tackling the persecution of Christians and promoting freedom of religion is a key priority?

[Hugh Robertson]

That is a good question. As I said in my original answer, the Foreign Office picks up the issue through bilateral relationships with the countries concerned, through the multilateral institutions and through the Foreign Secretary’s human rights advisory group. This is an issue that we will concentrate on over the period. The reaction that we have had across the House and from those with whom we have had contact indicates that this is a serious issue and it is one that we will take seriously.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

6. What steps he is taking to address human rights abuses in North Korea.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

14. What discussions he has had with the Libyan Government on reparations for people killed in attacks made using Libyan Semtex.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

Successive UK Governments have not routinely negotiated with foreign Governments over private compensation claims. However, the UK has raised with the Libyan authorities on a number of occasions the importance of engaging with UK victims seeking redress, including those seeking compensation through private campaigns, and with their legal representatives.

[David Mowat]

The Minister will be aware that the American victims of Semtex bombings have received more than £1 billion of compensation, while the 200 UK victims have so far received nothing. Can he assure the House that no deal was done in 2008 as part of the normalisation of relations with Gaddafi, to the detriment of my constituents?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes, I can. I should probably say to my hon. Friend that the situation here is very different from that in the United States, because we have victims who have suffered by a wide range of means, not merely Semtex. However, I can absolutely assure him that the claim that Government officials took any action in the 2008 bilateral agreement between the US and Libya that denied UK victims compensation is wrong.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

T3. I was pleased to read in a recent report by the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs that the Government have been developing a strategy towards the Gulf. In view of the obvious complexities of the middle east, does the Foreign Secretary agree that there is now a very good case for opening up that approach to a broader regional strategy?

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Hugh Robertson)]

Absolutely. The Gulf strategy has been developed over a number of years and is already paying benefits not only diplomatically but economically and commercially across a wide range of areas. Indeed, the strategy has been such a success that many other people are looking to establish such a relationship with us.

[Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance)]

T4. Has the Secretary of State received any recent reports on the condition of the seven Baha’i leaders who are now approaching the sixth anniversary of their incarceration in Iran? Will he take this opportunity to call again for their release?

[Hugh Robertson]

Yes, we will. As the hon. Lady is aware, there is a gradual and staged process of unfreezing relationships with the Iranian Government. We have not directly addressed that issue personally at ministerial level, but it is one of the issues that we will take up as we move the relationship forward.

[Mr Speaker]

Andrew Bridgen—not here.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

What is the Foreign Secretary’s view of the bizarre situation in which this country pays overseas aid to the Palestinian Authority, which uses it to pay salaries to the families of convicted terrorists in Israel?

[Hugh Robertson]

As the Foreign Secretary has made clear, at the moment the entire and sole focus of our policy on Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories has to be to get behind the peace process led by John Kerry. Once that process has been concluded—I hope successfully—there will be an opportunity to look at all these issues afresh.