Lord Grayling
Main Page: Lord Grayling (Conservative - Life peer)Department Debates - View all Lord Grayling's debates with the Ministry of Justice
(10 years, 2 months ago)
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Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
3. What assessment he has made of the availability of books to prisoners.
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)
Prisoners have essentially the same access to books as they did under the Labour Government. Prison libraries offer the full service offered to all of us by our local public libraries. There has been no specific policy change about books under this Government.
Philip Davies
I am grateful for that answer. The answer to a recent parliamentary question confirmed that £106 per prisoner is spent on libraries in prison, and from a recent freedom of information request I learned that in Leeds prison there are 10.5 books per prisoner, and in Wakefield prison 16.9. In contrast, in the libraries in my constituency for the general public, there is only about one book per person. On that basis, does the Secretary of State agree that, rather than prisoners being denied reading material, they are in fact far better served than the general public?
Chris Grayling
My hon. Friend makes an important point. Those who have visited prison libraries will know that they are well stocked and well supported by high-quality staff. In most prison libraries one will find local projects helping prisoners to read, and I pay tribute to the work done by our prison librarians in tackling literacy problems in our prisons. My hon. Friend is absolutely right: the fuss made about this issue has been wholly disproportionate and detached from the reality.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)
But will the Secretary of State give Parliament a report on how many minutes each week each prisoner is able to visit a prison library? We regularly hear reports of lack of staff preventing prisoners from visiting prison libraries, and lack of space preventing toe by toe and similar reading programmes from being mounted.
Chris Grayling
The challenge we have in our prisons is not making space available in libraries for prisoners to visit but encouraging them to visit. That is why we are pursuing projects such as toe by toe and encouraging literacy programmes. To be frank, I wish more prisoners wanted to go to our libraries.
Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State carefully consider the report published this week from the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, which shows that improved literacy really supports rehabilitation and recommends that prison libraries should be open at weekends?
Chris Grayling
I will read that very carefully; it is a helpful contribution to how we address the literacy problem. I pay tribute to all the volunteers in the toe by toe programme, and to all the prisoners who can read and devote time to helping those who cannot. It is a path to the enhanced privileges available under our new regime. It is important that we take advantage of all the resources available to us to try to tackle the problem of a lack of literacy in our prisons.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
4. What steps he plans to take to enforce the code of practice for victims of crime.
Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)
6. What estimate he has made of the number of offenders given a non-custodial sentence in the past three years who had more than 100 previous convictions.
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)
There are far too many people in that situation. I am clear that there must be tough penalties for serious or repeat offences. More people are going to prison and for longer under this Government. The basis of the hon. Gentleman’s question is precisely why I am taking steps in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill to ensure that we toughen up the system of cautions so that they are no longer available for serious or repeat crimes. We have also taken steps to ensure that all community penalties contain a punitive element.
Graham Jones
I thank the Secretary of State for that answer, but I am sure that Members throughout the House and the public outside will be deeply concerned that in 2013 more than 1,000 people were given a non-custodial sentence despite having 100 previous convictions, while 30,000 offenders were given a non-custodial sentence despite having committed 30 or more previous offences. Should not more consideration be given to residents, particularly in deprived neighbourhoods, who have to put up with persistent and repeat offenders in their communities?
Chris Grayling
I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman. That is why we have brought forward a number of the measures in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill, which is now in the other place. I hope that it will reach the statute book by the end of the year, and that it will deliver much-needed change.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State agree that sustained and meaningful employment is very important in reducing high reoffending rates?
Chris Grayling
I absolutely agree, which is why I think that a combination of the efforts that this Government are putting into that—the work being done to increase the number of employment opportunities within prisons; the work being done by the Work programme to help the long-term unemployed, particularly those who have been offenders; and, indeed, this Government’s great success in creating a fast-improving labour market—are all contributing to tackling the problem to which my hon. Friend rightly refers.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
7. Whether the offence of treason is available for use by prosecuting authorities against UK citizens participating in jihad in the middle east.
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)
Overall reoffending rates have barely changed over the past decade. Under our transforming rehabilitation reforms, we will draw on the best services from across the public, private and voluntary sectors in order to deliver better rehabilitation support to more offenders, reduce the number of potential victims and make our communities safer. For the first time in recent history, virtually every offender released from custody will receive statutory supervision, rehabilitation and mentoring support in the community.
Heidi Alexander
A4e recently pulled out of a £17 million contract to deliver education and training in London prisons. It has been suggested that one reason for that is staff shortages so severe that there are not enough officers to escort prisoners to classes. If prisoners who want to learn cannot even get to the classroom, what does that say about the Government’s so-called rehabilitation revolution?
Chris Grayling
All I can tell the House is that the scenario painted by the hon. Lady is completely untrue.
Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)
May I encourage the Justice Secretary to look at innovative ways of tackling reoffending? My neighbouring constituency in Barnet is looking at using GPS monitoring in new ways that go beyond traditional electronic monitoring and the Serco-G4S expensive model, and into ways that tackle the behaviour of some of the most prolific offenders. It is having great results.
Chris Grayling
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. The arrival of GPS tags in this country provides a great opportunity for the criminal justice system in a variety of different ways. We will have first access to that technology in a form that is sufficiently robust to be used in courts if necessary later this year, and I think it has great potential.
Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)
The right hon. Gentleman needs to know that the cost of reoffending is now the same as holding the London Olympics every single year. There is now more overcrowding, less education, and more violence in our prisons than ever before. Why will he not admit that the only intervention his Government have made in the past four and half years that has had the effect of reducing reoffending statistics is the one when he decided to change the way he would calculate those statistics?
Chris Grayling
I am afraid I have to correct the hon. Lady. At the moment our prison system is at its least overcrowded for 10 years, and the number of prisoners going through education is set to increase significantly this year.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State say what action his Department is taking to reduce the trend in shop theft, particularly where that might fuel a drug or substance habit?
Chris Grayling
That is one reason why I think it is important that we address the caution system, because it has been possible for somebody who commits an act such as shop theft simply to receive a caution again and again. Those people must come to court to be dealt with properly by our magistrates, and that is why the measures in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill are so important.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
11. What progress his Department has made on the transforming rehabilitation programme.
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)
Transition to the new probation structures took place on 1 June, and bids to run community rehabilitation companies were received at the end of June. More than half the bidders include a voluntary, mutual or social enterprise organisation, and mutuals continue to feature strongly. The contract winners for each CRC will be announced by the end of 2014, as planned.
Caroline Lucas
Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that it is deeply worrying that a recent survey of probation workers shows that more than 90% disagree with the view that the changes will provide value for money for the taxpayer, or improve service provision for users—they talk about spiralling work loads, stress, and dysfunctional IT? When will he stop ignoring the experts and admit that the best option to reduce reoffending and protect public safety would be to cancel the probation sell-off and re-integrate the two parts of the service at the earliest opportunity?
Chris Grayling
I take greater comfort from the fact that 90% of probation officers chose not to respond to their union’s survey and are getting on with the job, the excellent work they do on a day-by-day basis, and their good work to help the new systems bed in.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
I find the Secretary of State’s complacency extremely worrying. Two hundred probation officers turned up last week to lobby their MPs, all of them consistently reporting that the system is not working. The Secretary of State refused to undertake pilot schemes in advance of these reforms, but he did enact what he described as assessments called test gates. There have been three of those. The fourth was meant to start on 1 June but I believe it has not started yet. Will he publish all the information from the test gates, so that we can see what they have reported regarding the implementation of the reforms?
Chris Grayling
These reforms are going exactly according to plan and no test gate was due to start in June. We are on time and the teams on the ground are making good progress. I and my colleagues have visited the trust’s successor organisations, and members of my team are going out to hear what is happening on the ground. This is a nine-month process of delivering change in the public sector, before we reach the point of a change of ownership. We are trying to ensure that the new system is bedded in well, and so far I am happy with the progress being made. There is, of course, still work to be done, but good progress is being made.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
As usual, the Justice Secretary has his head in the sand. He was warned against his plans to privatise the probation service, but he ignored those warnings. Preferred bidders were supposed to be announced this week, but now he tells us it will be before the end of the year. There were supposed to be dozens and dozens of private companies, charities and voluntary groups bidding for the contracts, but there are not—in some areas, only one company is bidding for a contract. Staff—both those who respond to surveys and those who do not—are complaining of chaos at the probation service. Morale is at a record low and experienced and dedicated staff are leaving. Given that, are there any circumstances in which he would put a stop to the botched privatisation of the probation service?
Chris Grayling
I am afraid the right hon. Gentleman is plain wrong. He needs to stop listening to the trade unions; of course the trade unions still think this is a bad idea, but in reality our reforms are bedding in well and we will deliver the changes necessary to provide support and supervision to people who get none at the moment. The Labour party has no answers about how it would deliver that.
On competition, the right hon. Gentleman’s facts are plain wrong. I think we have 86 bids, with an average of four bidders in each area and a good mix of organisations from the public, private and voluntary sectors,. I am completely confident that we will shortly deliver a really innovative approach to rehabilitation, despite the blind opposition of the Labour party.
Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab)
12. What progress his Department has made on its courts rebuilding programme.
Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice (Chris Grayling)
Given all the questions that have been asked, I think it would be helpful for me to update the House properly on the progress of our rehabilitation reforms.
On 1 June we established new structures in the probation service for a period of shadow running and testing. Twenty-one community rehabilitation companies are now managing low and medium-risk offenders, initially in the public sector, prior to the award of contracts later in the year. The new national probation service has also been established, to advise the courts, manage high-risk offenders and take enforcement actions. Those functions will remain in the public sector. I am grateful to staff for their hard work as the changes bed in.
In parallel, we are making good progress with the competition for ownership of the community rehabilitation companies. Strong competition remains in all regions, with more than 80 bids received and an average of four bidders for each area. More than half the bidders include a voluntary, mutual or social enterprise organisation, and mutuals continue to feature strongly. All bidders have experience of working with offenders.
Nearly 1,000 organisations have registered as potential partners in the wider supply chain, including more than 700 listed as voluntary, community or social enterprise organisations. We remain on track to sign contracts with successful bidders by the end of the year.
Mr Hanson
There have been some strong reports recently from the chief inspector of prisons. For example, Glen Parva has been described as “unsafe”, Wormwood Scrubs as “filthy and unsafe”, and Doncaster as a “prison in decline”. I know from my experience as prisons Minister that it is never easy, but has the Secretary of State any belief in his ownership of the causes of those problems?
Chris Grayling
It is, of course, unfortunate that press coverage is always of the bad reports. Today we saw an excellent report from Chelmsford, and two weeks ago we saw an excellent report from Parc youth offender institution. This year the chief inspector has rightly been looking at prisons in which there have been challenges in the past, but, as the right hon. Gentleman will know if he visits prisons around the estate, a great deal of very good work is being done by our teams. They are undergoing a process of change caused by budget pressures, but they are doing a first-rate job. For every report that questions performance in one prison, there are many others that show that a first-rate job is being done—as he himself will remember.
Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)
The Secretary of State has previously said, and he said it again today, how proud he is of his prison reforms. The Ministry of Justice’s own figures show that suicides are up 69% in a year. More people died in prison last year than ever before. Self-harm is up 27% since 2010. Serious assaults are up 30%. The riot squad has been called out 72% more times than it was in 2010 and one in five prisons are now rated as “of concern”, double the figure 12 months earlier. We heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) that four reports by the chief inspector of prisons have been pretty damning; the reports on Glen Parva, Doncaster, Isis and Wormwood Scrubs. What will it take for the Secretary of State to accept that we are in the midst of a prison crisis?
Chris Grayling
As always, the right hon. Gentleman paints a very partial view of what is going on in our prisons. Our prisons are less overcrowded than they have been at any point since 2001. They are less violent than they were under the last Government. More work is being done in our prisons today than under the last Government. The number of prisoners going through education is rising. Today we have an excellent report on Chelmsford prison, which I visited last week. Two weeks ago, we had an excellent report on Parc prison in south Wales.
There are staff shortages in parts of our prison system but across the prison system we have a dedicated staff working hard and doing the right job. I take very seriously the issue of suicide in our prisons. We saw a rise in numbers earlier in the year. We saw a fall in numbers across the summer. We may see a rise or a fall in future. These things are difficult to track. We work very hard to tackle what is a real problem.
Sadiq Khan
This is classic, head-in-the-sand syndrome.
“The Government cannot pretend any longer that there is no crisis in our prisons.
Even their own backbenchers say the system is shambolic.
Mr Grayling’s priorities, regardless of his budget, must be the security of the public and prison officers—and the welfare of inmates.
His department’s failing on all three.”
Those are not my words. They are from an editorial in The Sun. The House should bear in mind that the Secretary of State was appointed by the Prime Minister to appeal to the red tops. What has gone wrong?
Chris Grayling
I will think that I have a problem in our prisons when I am forced through bad planning, as the last Government were, to release tens of thousands of prisoners weeks early to commit crimes that they should not have committed. I will know that I have a problem when I have to hire thousands of police cells when we do not have enough space in our prisons. The truth is that we have space in our prisons. They are less overcrowded. We are increasing education. They are less violent than they were under the last Government. We face challenges given budget pressures but we are doing a much better job than they did.
Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)
T6. It is an intolerable burden on British taxpayers that they should be funding the cost of so many foreign prisoners. Can the Secretary of State inform us what action is being taken to reduce the number and return more of them to their home country?
John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)
T5. Has the Secretary of State given specific advice to prisons, probation services and magistrates about historic sex abuse? If so, what is it?
Chris Grayling
No. It is for the courts to pass sentences. It is for our prisons and probation service to deal with the matter. The national probation service will focus on the most dangerous sex offenders. Our prisons are managing increasing numbers of historic and current sex offenders. We now have a number of prisons that specialise in that and are doing excellent work with those offenders. Let us hope that those numbers do not continue to rise, but if they do we will be ready to tackle that problem.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
T10. As a former prison assistant governor, I take a great interest in the rehabilitation of ex-offenders, so I am very proud of my constituent, Jason Turner, a former drug addict who is today launching his film, “Making your past pay.” He turned his life around after 22 years of crime and addiction, and the film features Benjamin Zephaniah aiming to show offenders how they can turn their lives around. Does my hon. Friend agree with my constituent Jason that offenders seeking to rehabilitate should never allow themselves to be defined by their past?
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
T7. There have been reports that a number of offenders remain unallocated to supervising officers following the division of the probation service into probation and community rehabilitation companies, with obvious concerns for public safety. The Secretary of State has said that he will only proceed with the transforming rehabilitation programme if he is confident it is safe to do so. Will he now undertake to publish the findings of the test gates, including the upcoming test gate 4, so that the public can have that reassurance?
Chris Grayling
I have expressly asked the chief inspector of probation to come to my office and talk to me if, in the course of the work he and his team do, he identifies any part of the reforms that are jeopardising public safety. He has not done so.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)
The Ministry of Justice’s own figures show that more than half of the parties in family courts are now unrepresented by a solicitor. There are concerns from the legal sector that this means that people are not getting fair hearings, and actually hearings seem to be taking longer. What plans has the Department got to review this?
Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
T8. The mentally ill constitute a large group of those who have taken their lives in prisons—in the most recent year, there has been the highest number since 2007. Much of this has been traced by commentators to the harsher policies introduced by the current Secretary of State. Does he not feel any shame that mentally ill people are paying this terrible price for the Government’s crude populism?
Chris Grayling
Let us be clear first of all: any suicide in our prisons is one too many, and I and my colleagues, and the team in the National Offender Management Service, take these issues very seriously indeed. We are working very hard to address the issues as to why people take their lives. As I said, we saw an increase earlier in the year and a fall during the summer. I hope we will continue to see a fall, but we might see an increase; these things do not follow a pattern. The reality is that we have looked at all the cases and there is no common pattern to them, but I absolutely refute any suggestion that we are disinterested in this or want to create an environment that allows this to happen. Indeed, I have said publicly that I regard dealing with issues of mental health in prisons as the next reform that this Government should embark on.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
In his recent written statement on the Office of the Public Guardian, the Minister of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), alludes to a future segmented supervision model for deputies. Will he act to reduce the number of people forced to pay through their estate for expensive solicitors to act as deputies, and find them better value alternatives instead?
Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)
Further to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies), will the Lord Chancellor join me on a visit to Bury and Rochdale magistrates court so that he can see for himself the excellent work that the magistrates are doing and see that the capacity exists for their sentencing powers to be increased from six months to 12 months?
Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)
What colour is the probation service change programme on the Cabinet Office evaluation scale?
Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)
The number of prison suicides has risen by 50% since the coalition came to power. The Secretary of State sits on his hands and simply says that the numbers go up and down; he has no explanation for that. However, his own chief inspector of prisons says that this is down to overcrowding. Is he wrong?
Chris Grayling
We have looked carefully at this matter, as have the ombudsman and a number of others. There is no common pattern to the suicides.
Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con)
May I ask the victims Minister to meet me and to review the handling and sentencing of repeat antisocial behaviour offenders? In my constituency, there are two cases of people on year-long ASBOs, but the victims feel that the sentencing has been carried out solely on the basis of the most recent offence rather than the pattern of behaviour.