Ukraine

Catherine West Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs if he will make a statement on the war in Ukraine.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Catherine West)]

The UK’s support for Ukraine to defend itself against Russian aggression is ironclad. In July this year, the Government committed to provide Ukraine with £3 billion of military aid every year for as long as needed. In October, we announced that the UK Government would provide a further £2.26 billion as the UK’s contribution to the $50 billion G7 loan, earmarked as budgetary support for Ukraine’s military spending. This will be provided in addition to our bilateral military aid. We are also stepping up and speeding up delivery of our military support.

The UK is also leading the way in terms of pressure on Russia and Putin’s war machine. To date, we have sanctioned over 2,100 individuals and entities under the Russia sanctions regime. Sanctions have deprived Russia of over $400 billion since February 2022, equivalent to four more years of funding for the invasion. Putin’s problems are growing, with 700,000 casualties to date, voluntary recruitment down 40% and an unsustainable war economy. Russia has been forced to rely on Iran for missiles and on the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea for foot soldiers.

Our support to Ukraine is a core UK national interest. A Russian victory would diminish the west’s global standing, create a zone of instability on our eastern flank, and embolden Putin and other autocrats. This could require cold war levels of defence spending. On 19 November, we passed a grim milestone—1,000 days since Putin launched his full-scale invasion. Millions of Ukrainians have been displaced from their homes or forced into exile, and as we know from our constituencies, we have homes full of Ukrainian families.

The Prime Minister has made it clear that we need to double down on our support for Ukraine. As the Foreign Secretary told the United Nations Security Council last month, we stand with the people of Ukraine during this terrible period of its history. It is wonderful to have cross-party support for that, and for the support that the UK will deliver for as long as it takes until Ukraine prevails, to ensure that this can never happen again.

[Priti Patel]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting this urgent question. Following the Prime Minister’s comments yesterday, we need some clarity from the Government on their approach to Ukraine. At the Lord Mayor’s banquet, the Prime Minister said that it was important to

“put Ukraine in the strongest possible position for negotiations so that they can secure a just and lasting peace on their terms”.

We can all agree that Ukrainians must be able to determine their own future. I am sure the Minister recognises that the language used by the Prime Minister yesterday evening at the Lord Mayor’s banquet about negotiations is new.

On 21 November in the House, the Prime Minister made no reference to negotiations for peace, stating:

“We have consistently said that we will do what it takes to support Ukraine and put it in the best possible position going into the winter”,

and that

“Russia could roll back its forces and end this war tomorrow.”—[Official Report, 21 November 2024; Vol. 757, c. 373.]

As the Minister pointed out, the Foreign Secretary stated here on 19 November:

“The final truth is that Putin has no interest in a just peace.”—[Official Report, 19 November 2024; Vol. 757, c. 163.]

We all agree that putting Ukraine in the strongest possible position to counter Russia’s illegal invasion is right. We are all proud in this House, across this Government and the previous Government, of how we have led on that support to Ukraine and its people. However, if the Government are framing that through the lens of negotiation, does the Minister believe that that represents a departure from the current approach and from the statements issued in this House?

The Minister will herself have seen President Zelensky’s latest remarks about NATO membership. It is important for NATO to speak with one voice on these matters, and this unity is absolutely crucial, so can the Minister update the House on the Government’s current position on Ukraine acceding to NATO?

We all continue to see more appalling brutality from Putin, with his pummelling of civilians and Ukraine’s energy systems constantly as winter kicks in, which is starting to hurt the people of Ukraine. The misery that that could inflict is the most atrocious form of psychological and physical warfare. The UK has led so much on Ukraine, so can the Minister confirm whether the Government are looking at what more can be done to protect Ukraine’s energy infrastructure? Can she reassure the House that we will keep on doing everything we can do to support the defence of freedom in Ukraine?

[Catherine West]

I reassure the right hon. Lady that there is no change in the UK position. We have always said that we will support Ukraine to achieve a just peace on its own terms. The PM has been clear, including in his speech last night, that

“we must continue to back Ukraine and do what it takes to support…self-defence for as long as it takes”,

because it is for Ukraine to determine its position in any future discussions. Putin cannot be trusted—Russia has violated multiple previous agreements—and the clearest path to peace is for Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine tomorrow and respect Ukrainian borders.

On the NATO membership question that the right hon. Lady poses, Ukraine’s place is in NATO. The allies agreed in Washington on 10 July that Ukraine is on an

“irreversible path to full Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership”,

and the UK fully supports that goal.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

While Europeans spend barely the cost of two cups of coffee a week on support for the war in Ukraine, 41% of Russia’s total expenditure is spent on the war. They have had to cut social security and raise taxes to pay for the war effort. While speculation about the future of the war is understandable in the current circumstances, it is really important that we remain firm. Does my hon. Friend agree that we must remain steadfast in our support for Ukraine? We stand with Ukraine.

[Catherine West]

The Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, and its members, heard from the Foreign Secretary last week about the UK’s steadfast support for Ukraine and our strong friendship. I am sure my right hon. Friend the Select Committee Chair is aware of that given all the Ukrainians who are based in homes in her constituency, and I reassure her that we will be steadfast and keep the support going for as long as it takes.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)]

We are watching with grave concern the most recent developments in Ukraine, and the attacks on its energy networks at the weekend show that Putin has no concern for non-combatants. The use by Russia of a hypersonic missile and the alleged change in Russia’s nuclear doctrine are clear efforts to intimidate Ukraine’s partners. Does the Minister agree that we must stand firm in our support for Ukraine?

President-elect Trump has said that he will end the war within 24 hours, and Vice President-elect Vance has said that Ukraine must give up its territory in negotiations, but ceding any territory will only give the wrong signal to other autocratic regimes around the world. We must urgently repair our broken relationship with our European allies to ensure that we act united in support of Ukraine, regardless of Trump’s potential actions. What is being done to strengthen the UK’s commitments and contribution to European collective security to support Ukraine?

We support the Bill to release the interest on frozen Russian assets that are held in the UK to help Ukraine, but will the Minister commit to work with allies to mobilise the principal, not the interest, on more than $300 billion of assets, so that there is a plan B if America withdraws financial support?

[Catherine West]

I thank the hon. Lady for her meaty contribution. On energy, the UK has provided more than £370 million for energy security and resilience in Ukraine through grant, in-kind support, and loan guarantees. That includes £64 million to support Ukraine to repair, protect and replace energy infrastructure targeted by Russian strikes. There is nothing worse than seeing families in darkness during conflict.

On Russian assets, we are pleased that our sanctions regime has respect across the globe. That began under the previous Government and enjoyed cross-party support throughout the last Parliament, and it continues to enjoy support. Our best legal minds are designing out the fraud and kleptocracy that for so many years has dogged our economy—that is a personal priority of the Foreign Secretary. Right down to the proceeds of Chelsea football club, we are fighting every inch to ensure that money from those assets goes straight back into supporting Ukrainians.

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

I agree wholeheartedly with the Prime Minister’s comments last night that we need a just and lasting peace for Ukraine on its terms, and in any negotiations that should be the central position. Following the election of President Trump, what discussions have the Government had with our international partners about the potential impact of that on Ukraine, especially given reports from Kursk in Russia that certain troops are holding on to their positions, waiting on the outcome of the incoming Trump Administration’s thoughts on negotiations?

[Catherine West]

I thank the Chair of the Defence Committee for his questions. We are all watching closely what is happening in Kursk, and we are extremely concerned by the additional forces from the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, who are estimated to be around 10,000 in number. It is so sad to see the strong potential for those young men to be victims of this war. We are also aware that it will be a tough few months while we re-establish our joint working with all partners across the US, the UK and Europe, but of this we can be sure: it is not a good sign or a good message for anyone to see that an aggressive invasion, such as Putin’s invasion across the borders of Ukraine, can somehow be the right thing or that it can be successful. We must use all our diplomatic tools across the Chamber to speak to friends in the UK and the US who have great friendships with the people of Ukraine and to continue to make the case for the men, women and children of Ukraine.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

It is excellent to see all Front-Bench spokesmen, including the Minister, so united on this question. Does she accept that Putin has made his attitude to the independence of Ukraine—namely, that it should cease to exist as an independent nation—crystal clear, and therefore any enforced treaty to which he is a signatory is utterly and completely worthless?

[Catherine West]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about the psychology of this conflict. It is why it is so important, particularly in these desperate winter months, that we remain firm. I commend him and others for all their work on the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine, and all their work on security and intelligence, to provide that important, dedicated cross-party support to Ukraine. In the end, we know that it is for Ukraine to determine its position on its future, its just peace and its vision for its own people, but we will be behind the Ukrainians so that they know we can be relied on.

[Alex Sobel (Leeds Central and Headingley) (Lab/Co-op)]

I was heartened to hear the Minister say that we would support the self-defence of Ukraine for as long as it takes. One of the most important aspects of that is the development of new military technology, particularly through joint ventures between the UK and Ukraine on areas such as drones and unmanned aerial vehicles. One such example is the Black Arrow project. The first stage of that project has been completed and the drones have been manufactured, but they have been stuck here since May this year, because no export control licence has been granted. Will the Minister implore her colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade to facilitate those licences quickly, as those drones will help not just the defence of Ukraine, but our sovereign manufacturing capability for defence?

[Catherine West]

I commend the chair of the all-party parliamentary group on Ukraine not just for his very long train trips across Ukraine to visit and offer his support, but for his technical knowledge. If he will give me permission, I will write to him with details of exactly where the project is at, so that he can give reassurance to all of his many followers in Ukraine.

[Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

Today, the BBC is reporting a Russian submarine sailing between Japanese islands and close to Taiwan. Last month, we had reports of a Russian ship being monitored by HMS Cattistock near our own UK waters. How concerned should we be that Russia is flexing its muscles? Will the UK be stepping up its direct support to Ukraine and making our troops, particularly our Royal Navy, ready for additional patrols and potential direct involvement to defend our allies and our shores?

[Catherine West]

I thank the hon. Lady for her detailed knowledge and her question. We know that the Euro-Atlantic and Indo-Pacific work closely together on all these Navy questions. I would not want to give anything specific away at the Dispatch Box that might help President Putin, but it is good to see that she is monitoring that. It is so important that we continue to work together, whether that is through the training of forces on the ground, air defence or Navy assets.

[Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)]

It is clearly more important than ever that the UK works closely with our European friends and allies as we face the common threat of Russian aggression. Can my hon. Friend outline how the Government intend to strengthen co-operation with the EU on the security challenges that we all face?

[Catherine West]

My hon. Friend will be aware that just last week, Germany made an important announcement about continuing military support. There has been a step change, particularly in light of the importance of the defence of Europe. Having a war on European soil is so instructive, and I think people are slowly coming to the table. It is clear that the UK has a real leadership position, and that is why the EU-UK security pact work is so important. The Europe Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), is working hard to develop that. As Members will be aware, we have just announced more collaboration with Germany where possible, and specifically in relation to Ukraine. In general, the UK has so much to offer the EU in that regard. We know that the ongoing conversations we are having more holistically about EU-UK relations are enriched by our defence capability.

[Stephen Gethins (Arbroath and Broughty Ferry) (SNP)]

I congratulate the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel), on securing this urgent question, and I thank the Minister for her statement. We are just past the anniversary of when Ukraine voted for independence. To remind everybody, every single part of Ukraine voted for independence. Does she agree, and will she remind any incoming Administration anywhere—perhaps in the United States—that the territorial integrity of Ukraine is set in international law and must be respected?

[Catherine West]

The key words are “respecting borders”, and that is where the neocolonial philosophy of President Putin, as he laid out originally in that seminal essay before the war, shows how completely at odds with the modern viewpoint he is. Yes, we will support Ukraine on its vision of its own borders, its own strength and its own sovereignty.

[Fred Thomas (Plymouth Moor View) (Lab)]

It can feel, with Russian submarines recceing our waters, with North Korean troops fighting for Russia and with Iranian drones causing the death of Ukrainians, that Russia wants a bigger war. We must deter it. That is why we must absolutely drive a victory for Ukraine—a total victory. Does the Minister agree with me and General George Marshall that the best way to win a war is to prevent it in the first place?

[Catherine West]

I thank my hon. and gallant Friend for his service to the UK and for his intimate knowledge of what it actually means to be at war, and therefore to talk about deterrence. I am committed, as is the whole Front-Bench team, to working as closely as possible on all the international friendships and treaties and the pressure that we can bring to bear, so that we can achieve a lasting peace together and be behind Ukraine as it steps forward into a very uncertain future.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

One aspect of support that the UK could offer Ukraine is expired medical equipment and dressings. A charity based in Axminster in my constituency, called Medics4Ukraine, has just got back from Odesa. It has been training municipal workers, and it says that it needs dressings, haemostatic dressings and gauzes. Will she speak to her counterparts in the Department of Health and Social Care to see whether some of the expired items could be released for that purpose?

[Catherine West]

I refer the hon. and gallant Gentleman to the discussion in the Adjournment debate last night on medical assistance in conflict. The UK has an enormous amount of resource in that area. I will certainly look into what is possible and write to him with what we are already doing in relation to Ukraine.

[Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)]

I very much welcome the statement, the ongoing commitment we have seen from this Government and the co-operation with the previous Government on Ukraine, because it is not just about security in Europe, as these things are in our self-interest. May I impress on the Minister that if Ukraine is allowed to fall, it will not just be a European problem? So much grain that is grown in Ukraine finds its way to Africa. If Ukraine falls, people in Africa will starve, too.

[Catherine West]

I thank my hon. Friend for making an important point. We all watched two summers ago with bated breath as the Black sea grain negotiations occurred, and the impact of missing out on that important agricultural wealth in Ukraine, and the deleterious effect it had on developing nations, were of concern to all in this House. He is right to speak about the knock-on effects of conflict. We must redouble our efforts to stop that happening.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Many of the Ukrainian refugees living in my constituency have expressed relief and gratitude that there has been continuity of policy in still supporting Ukraine with the change of Government. But at a time when Russia is finding that its economy is affected by the war and is having to rely on Iran, China and Korea to continue the war, does the Minister think it unwise to start talking of negotiations about land and so on, which will only encourage Putin and his regime? Should we not be talking about increasing the resolve of our partners, giving military support and seizing Russian assets to let Ukraine use them?

[Catherine West]

There is no change in the UK position; we have always said that we will support Ukraine to achieve a just peace on its own terms. The Prime Minister has been clear, including in his speech last night, that we must continue to back Ukraine and do what it takes to support its self-defence for as long as it takes.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

The Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee made a strong case about the financial pressure that Russia finds itself in. What additional pressure can we place on Russia? Are there any plans to introduce a sanctions Bill?

[Catherine West]

I thank my hon. Friend, the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee—we have a good showing of Select Committee Chairs in the House today. I reassure her that the UK has imposed measures on over 2,100 individuals and entities, the most wide-ranging sanctions ever imposed on a major economy. Most recently, we have imposed sanctions against 69 vessels in Russia’s shadow fleet transporting Russian oil outside G7 sanctions. May I say how pleased I am—I am sure that I speak for everybody across the House—that through our leadership on sanctions, with our best legal minds, we have managed to bring in all those financial penalties against the aggressor?

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her answers. President Zelensky has been clear that NATO membership must mean article 5 including the entirety of Ukraine territories. What discussion has the FCDO, and perhaps the Minister, had with our NATO allies to ensure that that is the case? Will she commit in particular to discussing the issue with the current and incoming US Secretaries of State to ensure that a co-ordinated approach is taken on behalf of Ukraine?

--- Later in debate ---

[Catherine West]

As the hon. Member is aware, Ukraine’s place is in NATO; it has said so itself. He supports that principle. Allies agreed in Washington on 10 July that Ukraine is on an irreversible path to full Euro-Atlantic integration, including NATO membership. Of course, the UK fully supports that goal. The hon. Member plays an important role in that because in the US there are important Irish counterparts, or those who might have heritage there, who will want to hear from him to lay out the case for supporting Ukraine.

[Jacob Collier (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)]

Given the NATO Secretary-General’s recent warning about a growing alliance between China, Russia, Iran and North Korea, will the Minister clarify what work the UK is doing to counter that threat?

[Catherine West]

As my hon. Friend might have gathered, it is from a position of weakness that those countries are being relied on to shore up support. That is why it is so important that we look holistically at our sanctions regime, which cannot be just about the current conflict. It must also be about how we stop the Iranian military juggernaut and how we look at the military industrial complex, which works across all sorts of different regimes. That is why it is also so important to understand how the economies of the DPRK can tip into Russia and for us to work with countries who support us and do not support that particular access so that we can win the argument as well as the battle.

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for the clarity she has brought to the urgent question. I do not think anyone in the House agrees that Vladimir Putin can be allowed to get away with taking even a single inch of territory in Ukraine, and I do not think that anyone is not alive to the danger of giving people like that what they want—they always come back for more. Given those facts, will she confirm that we will back Ukraine for as long as it takes, and that any eventual deal will be completed entirely on Ukraine’s terms and not on Russia’s?

[Catherine West]

Of course. That is why we have supported Ukraine as it has made the case for wanting to be in NATO and as it has made the case for being as close as possible to friends in Europe. That is why we have supported the Ukrainians in their requests for either military or non-military aid. That is why we have implored others, even as far away as the Indo-Pacific, to assist in this push to ensure that there is as much support as possible to stand up to bullies.