Higher Education Regulatory Approach

Debate between Bridget Phillipson and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 15th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

What we inherited from the previous Government was not a genuine attempt to solve a genuine problem; it was a mess designed to put party ahead of country. We saw a misplaced fascination with headlines for themselves, rather than a serious attempt to safeguard freedom of speech and academic freedom. It is precisely because this Government care about academic freedom and freedom of speech that we are determined to get this right, unlike the Conservative party. We are not content to leave it to vice-chancellors, who have done too little for too long. Universities must be places of robust discussion, where students’ views are challenged and academic freedom is central.

One of my many predecessors in the previous Government, the former Member for Chippenham, was unable to set out how the then Government’s proposals would prevent Holocaust deniers coming on to campus. Let me be clear: Holocaust denial has no place on campus or anywhere else in our society. The legislation would have emboldened Holocaust denial, and showed a shameful disregard for the welfare of Jewish students.

On the legal proceedings the right hon. Lady mentions, she was a member of the previous Government and knows very well that I am unable to comment on any aspect of that.

I said I would consider all options. I have done precisely that and have returned to the House, as I intended, to provide an update. If Conservative Members want to know what a U-turn on free speech looks like, I suggest they turn their attention to Liz Truss, who for so long extolled the virtues of free speech and is now on some bizarre quest to cancel the Prime Minister for saying that she and the Conservative party crashed the economy. Freedom of speech cuts both ways. What a bunch of snowflakes!

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for confirming the Government’s approach to the implementation of the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023, and I welcome the clarity that she has provided today.

The implementation of the Act will present some challenges for universities and for students. The Secretary of State will know that there can sometimes be a fine line between free speech and hate speech, and between statements of views and opinions and incitement or encouragement to violence or intimidation in the real world. Can she assure the House that she will ensure that universities and students are absolutely clear about the limits to free speech, which are already enshrined in law, and that support will be provided on the interpretation of that when it is needed?

Professor Shitij Kapur, vice-chancellor and president of King’s College London, has said:

“Universities are not there to function as a Speakers’ Corner where anyone can stand up and express an opinion not necessarily supported by facts. If academic freedom is to mean anything, it must be accompanied by the academic obligation for ideas and claims to be accompanied by evidence and reason. Proponents have an obligation to engage and respond to those questioning their assertions and conduct that debate and discourse in a civil manner.”

How will the Secretary of State ensure—particularly as the erosion of fact-checking and moderation on social media is taking place before our very eyes—that the implementation of the Act results in a high quality of evidence-based discourse conducted in a culture of civility?

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for her questions and her approach, and I look forward to discussing these issues with the Select Committee in due course should its members so wish.

My hon. Friend’s point about disagreement is important. Free speech should be robust and we should be able to express our views, but all of us, especially those in public life, have a duty to ensure that we do so in a way that is responsible. As for the tort—this is at the heart of the issue that she has identified—I was concerned that the potential impact of legal proceedings and the financial consequences for providers of breaching their duties under the Act might have led to some providers unduly prioritising free speech that is hateful or degrading over the interests of those who feel harassed and intimidated. These issues can be finely balanced. We will provide further clarity through the Office for Students, but let me make it clear that academic freedom and freedom of speech are crucial tenets of our country’s history.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Ian Sollom (St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire) (LD)]

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of her statement.

The Liberal Democrats fully support free speech, which, as several Members have pointed out, is at the heart of academic freedom, but it was clear from the start that this piece of legislation was not based on evidence, was not proportionate, and was fundamentally flawed. We welcomed the pausing of its implementation last year, and I welcome now the acknowledgement of its flaws and the Secretary of State’s move to repeal the provisions on the tort and on student unions in particular. I must, however, press her on the fundamental question of why the Act is necessary.

Higher education institutions already operate within a legal framework to ensure that freedom of speech within the law is secured for academic staff, students, employees and visiting speakers, and universities have already taken action to improve their policies and processes relating to freedom of speech. Universities UK, which represents over 140 universities, has reissued and expanded its guidance in this area, as well as having regular discussions with university leaders to support them with these challenges. Would the Secretary of State consider taking a more meaningful step to ensure that students are safe, welcome and protected at universities by giving higher education institutions a statutory duty of care for their students?

The Secretary of State also referred to the well-documented fears of minority groups, particularly those in Jewish communities, that the Act in its previous form would allow a platform for extremist views, and she mentioned Holocaust denial. We had some indication of this in her statement, but will she provide more details of her plans to protect those from minority groups and communities on our university campuses?

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising those questions. I will start where we agree, and then move on to where I might disagree with him.

I agree that freedom of speech and academic freedom are essential, but, sadly, we have seen too many examples of their not being upheld in the way that they should be by universities. The right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott) raised a number of cases in which we have seen unacceptable practice, and some individuals have had to seek recourse through employment law when it should have been possible for them to seek redress sooner. That is precisely what we are seeking to deal with in ensuring that the Office for Students is able to focus on the most serious cases without being caught up in complex cases that could be less well founded or even nonsensical.

I want to be clear that we have engaged with people with a range of views on these topics, including those who hold gender-critical views, those who were in favour of the legislation and those who had concerns. That careful process of engagement with the sector, stakeholders and people with a range of views has enabled me to come to the House today and set out our approach.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Mark Sewards, a member of the Education Committee.

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement. It is good to see that our universities will no longer be a battleground in which political parties seek to make headlines—unsuccessfully, I might add. Does she agree that now that she has taken decisive action on this issue, it is time to talk about the financial situation facing many of our universities, which threatens their very existence? We know that students are paying far more for far less at university, and we need to end that ridiculous cycle.

[Bridget Phillipson]

I agree with my hon. Friend that, across the board, there are big challenges in the university sector. That is why I took the difficult but necessary decision last year to increase the fees that they are able to charge. This year, we will engage in reform right across the sector to provide the long-term financial sustainability that is required. As my hon. Friend recognises, we on the Government Benches are clear that our universities are a central part of our local and regional economies, and a beacon of excellence around the world. That is why so many students from around the globe seek to come to our world-leading universities.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Dr Caroline Johnson, a member of the Education Committee.

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[Bridget Phillipson]

I know that the right hon. Gentleman is probably used to his party engaging in these discussions on quite difficult and sensitive issues in a rather reckless and irresponsible way, but we on these Benches take our time to do this seriously and properly to make sure that we get it right, because this is such an important area. He will have heard from my speech—I will set out further detail—the requirements that will be in place through registration conditions, the fact that the Office for Students will be able to impose penalties on institutions, and the requirements that we expect of all higher education providers. My message to vice-chancellors and institutions today is that they need to do more, and they need to do it better.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call Select Committee member Darren Paffey.

[Darren Paffey (Southampton Itchen) (Lab)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for her statement and for the measured, practical and common-sense approach that it takes, which is in sharp contrast to what we are hearing on the Opposition Benches at the moment. Although we will always defend their right to their opinions, a right to their own facts is rather regrettable and their revisionism is quite astounding. I know at first hand the value of a university education. It is about having our views challenged. It is about critical thinking based on evidence and facts and having our horizons opened. Does the Minister agree that this foundation and the measures announced today are the right way to secure academic freedom in the future?

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[Bridget Phillipson]

I am afraid I did not quite catch the very last part of the right hon. Gentleman’s questions, but I will happily look in Hansard and return to him on that point.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I think he just wants to hear a yes to attending a meeting.

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am afraid I am not going to do that without having reviewed exactly what the right hon. Gentleman said, Madam Deputy Speaker. I know him quite well. The Department for Education and the Home Office are looking jointly at some of these areas, and I want to be clear that national security is our No. 1 priority as a Government. I am grateful to all those who have engaged in good faith with the Department in this conversation. They hold a wide range of views: there are those who are for the Act and those who are against, as well as those with views somewhere in the middle and those with some new ones. I am grateful for their contributions to this discussion. I hope they can all see that we have taken this seriously and that we now have a workable plan to ensure that freedom of speech and academic freedom in our institutions are protected into the future.

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[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for sharing those comments. I pay tribute to the Union of Jewish Students for the amazing work it does every day to support Jewish students on campus and to ensure that their voices are heard, including at the highest levels of Government. I give my commitment to UJS that I will continue to work with it and other student groups to make sure their voice is always heard. We as a Government are resolutely behind them in the fight against antisemitism in our country.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

For the final question, I call Dr Scott Arthur.

[Dr Scott Arthur (Edinburgh South West) (Lab)]

As someone who was an academic until about 5 am on 5 July last year, I thank the Secretary of State for her statement and for the leadership she has shown on this issue. I will ask a question in the context of my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

I am proud of all the universities in Edinburgh and how they attract students from all over the world, but last year when I visited the Edinburgh Hebrew Congregation, which is the main synagogue in Edinburgh, I was ashamed to hear of the intimidation that Jewish students were facing in university. I was pleased to hear that universities are taking that seriously and I know that the Edinburgh faith forum is too. Freedom of speech is an important right, but that should never extend to bigotry and hate. Does the Secretary of State agree that students should be free to practise their faith, always, and able to display their faith publicly, no matter what it is, without fear of intimidation?

Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill

Debate between Bridget Phillipson and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 8th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

I am afraid that I am concluding now.

We are bringing together the system’s many parts into a collaborative, coherent whole with children at its heart. Our ambition to support children does not stop here. We expect to bring forward further legislation when parliamentary time allows. Our work to erase the stain of child poverty must and will continue through the child poverty taskforce, which I am proud to co-chair with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

Reducing the burden on schools, freeing teachers to teach and children to learn—today is about action. When colleagues from across the House read the Bill in all its detail, they will find running through its 60 clauses one golden thread, one common theme, one objective, one common cause. It is not structures or ideology, and they will find no pet projects or stale dogma. They will see that our focus is firmly on children: their life chances are the aim, their protection is the objective and their success is our common cause. This Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill is written for them. It is introduced to the House for them. It will be implemented for them—for their safety, for their schooling and for their futures. I commend the Bill to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Bridget Phillipson and Nusrat Ghani

Monday 9th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

I pay tribute to all the businesses across our country that are providing high-quality skills training and apprenticeship starts. However, apprenticeship starts for the under-25s fell by 38% in the period 2015-16 to 2022-23. It will fall to this Labour Government to turn that around.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call Calvin Bailey.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker]

If Members are bobbing, they should be prepared to be called to speak.

[Bridget Phillipson]

Yes, I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend. In this period of review, we are speaking to employers, training providers and colleges to ensure that we get this right.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call Jim Shannon to show us how it is done.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for her response to those questions. I know that she does not have direct responsibility for Northern Ireland, but may I ask her about apprenticeships? In defence and cyber-security—in Thales and Spirit AeroSystems—and in agrifood, opportunities should be there for young ladies as well as for young men. What is being done to ensure that there is equality of opportunity for everyone, both male and female?

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[Bridget Phillipson]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising this matter. I would be happy to meet with him to discuss it further.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

We have seen attempts by hostile states to influence our higher education sector, which the last Conservative Government took action to counter. Does the Secretary of State therefore share the concerns about reports that Peking University HSBC Business School in Oxford may be partly operating under Chinese Communist party rules, and does she expect the Office for Students to investigate that?

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[Bridget Phillipson]

Like my hon. Friend, I take having strong freedom of expression in our universities, and students being exposed to a range of views—some of which they might find difficult or disagree with—extremely seriously. That is why it is so important to have a wide-ranging education. Officials will ensure that we engage with a wide range of views in this important area as we look at next steps, and I would be more than happy to discuss that in more detail with her.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Bridget Phillipson]

The hon. Member is right in his characterisation of a system that is adversarial and where so many parents have to fight to get a good education and support for their children. I would be happy to do so, or perhaps my hon. Friend the Minister might take that meeting.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

It was in response to growing demand that the last Conservative Government increased the high-needs budget to £10.5 billion and put in place a statutory override so that SEND-related deficits did not overwhelm council budgets. With that set to expire in 2026, what is the Secretary of State’s message to local authorities: is she pushing the Chancellor to extend that protection or for deficits to be written off?

Education and Opportunity

Debate between Bridget Phillipson and Nusrat Ghani

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Bridget Phillipson]

I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I welcomed the opportunity to meet my opposite number in Scotland recently, and I want to find areas on which we can reach agreement constructively and collaboratively. As for his specific question, I am afraid I cannot give him that commitment, but I want to ensure that all young people have the chance to travel, learn and study.

The hope that I want for our young people comes from the opportunity that this Government will deliver. As Members know, opportunity is a journey that lasts a lifetime, and the first steps are in early years education, because the barriers to opportunity appear early in a child’s life. We will bring about a sea change in our early years system, beginning right now.

I am fully committed to rolling out the childcare entitlements promised to parents, but I need to be frank with the House: the challenges are considerable, and the last Government did not have a proper plan. The irresponsibility that we inherited was shocking. I acted immediately to get to grips with the task at hand, but I must be honest: the disparities across the country are severe, which means that some parents will, sadly, miss out on their first-choice place. They and their children deserve better, and I am determined to get this right. We will create 3,000 nurseries in primary schools to better connect early years with our wider education system. By the time we are done, we will have thriving children, strong families, and parents who are able to work the hours they want.

The foundations for a love of learning are laid early, in primary school, but child poverty puts up barriers at every turn. It is a scar on our society. The need to eradicate child poverty is why I came into politics, and it is why the Prime Minister has appointed me and the Work and Pensions Secretary to jointly lead the new child poverty taskforce. Together, we will set out an ambitious child poverty strategy, and I will introduce free breakfast clubs in every primary school. They are about more than just breakfast; they are important for driving up standards, improving behaviour, increasing attendance and boosting achievement.

What children are taught once they are in the classroom matters, too. We must start early with maths, and inspire a love of numbers in our youngest learners, and this Government are committed to fully evidence-based early language interventions in primary schools, so that all children can find their voice.

I want high and rising standards across all our schools and for all our children, but I mean that in the broadest and most ambitious of terms. We should be growing a love of learning, and encouraging children to explore the world around them, to be bold, to dream and to discover their power. Our curriculum must reflect that. That is why I have announced the Government’s expert-led review of the curriculum and assessment at all key stages, in order to support our children and young people, so that they succeed tomorrow and thrive today. By working with teachers, parents and employers, we will deliver a framework for learning that is innovative, inclusive, supportive and challenging, that drives up standards in our schools, and ensures that every child has access to a broad and rich curriculum.

However, any curriculum is only as strong as the teachers who teach it. Today, those teachers are leaving the classroom, not in dribs and drabs but in their droves—and too often, opportunity follows them out the door. I am working tirelessly to turn that around. We will back our teachers and support staff, and we will partner with the profession to ensure that workloads are manageable. We have already begun recruiting 6,500 more expert teachers. Together, we will restore teaching as the career of choice for our very best graduates, and we will invest in our schools and services by ending the tax breaks that private schools enjoy.

Accountability is vital and non-negotiable, but Ofsted must change, and change it will. Our reform will start with ending one-word judgments. We will bring in a new report card system. That is part of our plan to support schools and challenge them when needed in order to deliver high and rising standards for every child.

I have spoken to colleagues from across the House about their concerns about how the system is failing learners with special educational needs and disabilities. I share those concerns; the system is broken. I am delighted to see on the Government Benches my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes), with whom I worked so closely on this issue in opposition, and who shares entirely my focus and concern. All families want the best for their children, but parents of children with special educational needs often face a slow struggle to get the right support. They are bogged down by bureaucracy and an adversarial system, and entangled by complexity. It is not good enough, and we will work relentlessly to put that right. We are committed to taking a community-wide approach in which we improve inclusivity and expertise in mainstream schools, as well as ensure that special schools cater to those with the most complex needs. I have already restructured my Department to start delivering on this commitment. There can be no goal more important and more urgent than extending opportunities to our most vulnerable children, which also means reforming children’s social care.

Young people and adults deserve high-quality routes to building the skills that they need to seize opportunity, and businesses need staff with the skills to help them grow. Those are two sides of the same coin, and the key to our future prosperity and growth. We need a skills system fit for the future, but we have a fragmented system that frustrates businesses, lets down learners and grinds growth into the ground. It is time for a comprehensive strategy, and for our country to take skills seriously, so this week, alongside the Prime Minister, I announced Skills England, a new body that will unify the fractured landscape. It will bring together central Government, combined authorities, businesses, training providers, unions and experts. Businesses have told us that they need more flexibility to deliver the training that works for them, so we will introduce a new growth and skills levy to replace the failing apprenticeship levy.

Post-16 education is all about giving learners the power to make choices that are right for them. For many, that choice will be university, and I am immensely proud of our world-leading universities. They are shining lights of learning, but their future has been left in darkness for too long. This must and will change. There will be no more talking down our country’s strongest exports. Under this Government, universities will be valued as a public good, not treated as a political battleground. We will move decisively to establish certainty and sustainability, securing our universities as engines of growth, excellence and opportunity.

This Government will break the link between background and success. We will create opportunities for children and learners to succeed. We will give them the freedom to chase their ambitions, and the freedom to hope. This Labour Government are returning hope to our country after 14 long years, and there can be no greater work than building a country where background is no barrier to opportunity. That work of change has already begun.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Ghani)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.