Shared Rural Network Implementation

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Helen Morgan]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right that progress in rural areas is so slow that we end up with yesterday’s technology. I will come on to that towards the end of my speech. The roll-out of broadband and Project Gigabit in North Shropshire is very welcome, but the mobile signal is extremely important.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making a good start on her speech, but there are examples of positive development across the country. In Devon, for instance, we have reconstituted Connecting Devon and Somerset. It has worked extremely well: in the last four years, we have gone from about 84% connectivity up into the high nineties percentile. That modern technology is also following suit. There are pretty good examples of where the private sector and public sector—Devon County Council—have done extraordinary work to make sure we are reaching the hard-to-reach areas, eliminating the notspots and ensuring connectivity for all. It is not a complete tale of woe.

[Helen Morgan]

I am pleased to hear that it is going well. Ensuring that we get to that stage across the country is what I hope this debate will achieve.

A survey for the Country Land and Business Association found that 80% of rural business owners said that improved connectivity would be the single largest improvement to their business. Mobile phones have been cited as the default back-up option for people when the copper landline network is switched off in a power cut. We are probably ultra-sensitive to that after the last couple of weeks, when people have been without power for extended periods. It is entirely right that electricity companies get power back on in urban areas sooner, because that is where the greatest number of people need to be connected, but we also need to ensure that the back-up option for rural people works, and that is the mobile phone signal.

It is important that people have a choice of provider to ensure that they have mobile connection when they need it. Interestingly, respondents to a survey conducted by Building Digital UK cited poor mobile coverage as a major factor exacerbating poor outcomes from agricultural injuries. That is vital in a very rural constituency where there is a large number of agricultural workers and where a couple of years ago there were several combine harvester fires. It is really important that people can call 999 when they need to, or call an ambulance if they have suffered an accident anywhere in a rural area.

Mobile coverage is also one of the top issues faced by constituents. I ran a series of open meetings over the summer, and constituents were genuinely angry that they could not use the same mobile signal at home as at work. It caused them huge problems—for example, they could not do simple things like phoning home to get someone to pick up their kids from school if they were running late. There was a real impact on people’s daily life from not being able to access the same mobile phone signal wherever they went in their local area.

It is important to note that partial notspots, which are the main issue where I live, effectively mean that people have only one choice of provider, so we are not seeing the competitive market that our urban counterparts have when they are choosing who to buy their phone or SIM from.

Ultrafast Broadband: Devon and Somerset

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Tuesday 11th January 2022 Westminster Hall

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby). She has been a fastidious campaigner on this issue and has made extraordinary moves to bring to the attention of the Government the digital connectivity deficit we have in Devon and Somerset.

Over the course of the past two years, digital connectivity has been more important than ever. From working at home, to speaking to loved ones, to providing at-home education, the internet and digital connectivity are not luxuries but necessities. The pandemic has highlighted the blackspots and notspots all over our respective constituencies. Thankfully—there must be something to be thankful for over the past two years—that has created a better understanding of the need and the scale of the challenge we all face.

If I can be nakedly focused on my own constituency during this debate, Totnes in South Devon has 52,500 premises, which breaks down as 19,023 residential properties and 23,608 commercial properties with superfast broadband. If my maths is correct, that leaves an estimated 9,056 premises in need of improved digital services. I always feel rather guilty mentioning those statistics because they are considerably better than my colleague’s in North Devon, but they do point to the need and lack of digital connectivity for so many of my constituents.

I understand that Connecting Devon and Somerset is looking to cover those premises through a new £38 million programme, plus the £18.7 million of Government funding. That is all very welcome, and the take-up of those services is essential, as the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) just mentioned. In so many instances, we have seen Openreach and other providers create the network for people to plug into, but they have yet to so do. As I understand it, in Devon there is a 70% take-up, which is considerably better than the national average of 61.4%. While that has increased, how will the Minister encourage people to take up the internet connectivity available to them and how can we close that gap of 30%?

I am delighted that Openreach has launched an ultra-reliable gigabit-capable full fibre programme for Dartmouth. Work is already under way, and I look forward to seeing the other areas around South Devon included as the programme expands. Digital connectivity is essential to modern living. Its roll-out helps businesses, attracts investment, and, perhaps most important, connects us all with those we have been so far from over the past two years. I look forward to hearing what more can be done.

The hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport asked that Conservative south-west MPs speak with a loud voice. I would say that Conservative south-west MPs have spoken with an incredibly loud voice on road and rail infrastructure; on levelling up; on second homes; on fishing and farming. We will happily continue to speak with a unified, loud voice to ensure that the south-west is not overlooked, that our networks are improved, and that the opportunities that come with improving them can be delivered for all.

Oral Answers to Questions

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Thursday 18th March 2021 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

What steps his Department is taking to help ensure that art and antiques can be easily exported to EU countries.

[The Minister for Digital and Culture (Caroline Dinenage)]

The UK has one of the world’s leading art markets and the free trade agreement we negotiated with the EU will allow it to flourish. We have taken steps to facilitate the export of cultural goods to EU countries. We have developed a new inland pre-clearance process for export licences for works of art, and we are digitising the export licensing system for cultural goods. Those steps will reduce border friction and avoid delays and security risks.

[Anthony Mangnall]

Notwithstanding the Minister’s incredibly helpful response, there are small businesses in the art and antiques market that are suffering from these teething problems, such as Dart Gallery in Dartmouth in my constituency. So what further steps are the Government going to take to ensure that there is a streamlined approach to exporting art and antiques in future years?

[Caroline Dinenage]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to champion the businesses in his constituency. We care deeply about supporting them. That is why the Secretary of State met representatives of the art market only earlier this month to discuss issues. We will continue to work closely with the sector to ensure that it can keep trading smoothly with the EU. We recognise that this means a period of change for business at a time when everyone has been responding to the unprecedented pressures of the pandemic, but this is an unparalleled opportunity for the UK to do business differently and prosper. We will continue to support businesses to allow them to take all the opportunities.

Digital Infrastructure, Connectivity and Accessibility

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

It is always a privilege to follow the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael). Last time, he was speaking about fish before I spoke, and this time we are speaking about the internet. While we might not be classed as a dynamic duo, we are at least a duo talking about the same issues with the same concerns.

I start by congratulating my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Esther McVey) on bringing this debate to the House. She has raised with such fortitude and passion an issue that is of concern to many of us in this House. From the not-spots to the hard-to-reach areas, the fully fibred and the simply disconnected, all of which make up the patchwork of variable connectivity that criss-crosses our country, our network is in need of rapid modernisation.

We are all aware of the dramatic impact that covid has had on how we work, shop and interact. Such a reliance on technology has been borne out of necessity. In a short space of time—the past 10 months—we as individuals have become as digitally advanced and interlinked as we might have done over a decade, had such a crisis not evolved. Working from home has become so commonplace it is hard to predict when, if ever, we will return as a whole to condensed city centres or places of work.

The ease with which digital connectivity has facilitated this enormous societal shift means that whenever we do return to normality, it is unlikely that the digital genie will ever be put back in the bottle. We are therefore going to have to embrace this new reality of remote working and of using the mediums of Zoom, Skype and Microsoft Office.

As many have already mentioned, many have been locked out or have simply just not had access to digital connectivity across their areas. It should be a startling fact that 63% of young people rely more on mobile internet for work now than ever before. A new generation of “anywheres”, rather than “somewheres”, who are tech-literate and mobile, working from their phones, laptops and tablets, should be encouraged.

For those who can remember a time before Facebook, the speed at which adaptability is coming about is remarkable. There are benefits that come with it, from estate agents who have done virtual tours, to online medical health centres, pubs, local charities and centres of culture and art, all of which have embodied virtual reality. It is a positivity that we will have to embrace and enhance in the years to come.

But—there is a significant “but” here—according to Cable’s worldwide broadband speed league, the UK is 47th. Out of the top 50 digital-connected nations, the UK’s ranking at 47th should be a cause for concern. The Secretary of State for Education should be particularly concerned to learn that Belgium, France and Spain are all ahead of us on this one. A global Britain must be a connected one. We are quick to tout the amazing things that we do in this country—from FinTech to fibre optics to photonics—but if we want to see those industries and sectors thrive, we need to ensure that connectivity is widespread and across the whole United Kingdom.

Of course, one of the hard-to-reach areas is my constituency in the south-west. Out of 53,000 premises, 20% remain disconnected or completely unconnected at present. That stat is not as bad as the figure for the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby), but it must be addressed. I have lost count of the number of times the issue has been raised on the doorstep or in my inbox. It restricts opportunity and investment. Addressing it allows us to promise to generations and different parts of our community that we will level up. If we do so, I hope that we will recognise that if we put our money where our mouth is, it gives us the chance to provide opportunities in the south-west, the north-east and anywhere else in the United Kingdom, to provide a new generation with the tech literacy it needs and to attract new investment and opportunity across the whole United Kingdom.

Broadband Rollout: Devon and Somerset

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Westminster Hall

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Fovargue. It is also a privilege to follow my hon. Friend the Member for East Devon (Simon Jupp), who name-checked every part of his constituency with great confidence and remains a strong champion for his patch, and for digital connectivity. I congratulate the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) on securing the debate. It is pleasing to hear that he has managed to learn the delights of Zoom and I suspect that the whole House will be waiting to see how he gets on with Google Connect, Skype and Microsoft Teams. Perhaps we can have another debate about how he does with those.

As has already been raised in weekly calls with Devon MPs, the problem of connectivity is profound in the south-west, as was alluded to by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton). That issue has been readily addressed and identified by those who have been sent home to work from home over the past 11 months, and who have seen the need to interact with colleagues and businesses, and find investment and opportunity through their digital connectivity. Failing to identify and address the issue is only likely to see that gap and gulf in the south-west expand beyond where it is already, and to see a lack of opportunity presenting itself compared with some cities.

Investment was mentioned. The south-west needs investment. It is a big policy of this Government to make sure that we are levelling up across all regions. Well, the south-west needs that. In Bristol and Exeter we have seen the benefits that investment can bring, but unless we can ensure that we have a robust digital telecommunications network that not only allows people to work from home, but attracts businesses to operate from across the peninsula, we cannot hope to see the investment and opportunity that we seek to provide for younger generations in years to come.

While I do not have the historical knowledge of my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton about Connecting Devon and Somerset, I do have a sense that CDS has failed to deliver in the short time since I was elected. In my constituency there are 52,000 premises, of which 10,000 residential and non-residential properties are still outstanding to be connected. The failure to connect them has been an ongoing issue for over five years. That makes it impossible for many of my constituents to launch their businesses, work from home or do any of the things that they might have been expected to do this year.

As has been mentioned, CDS has collaborated with Openreach and it is welcome that there is a £6 million programme and vouchers, and that Airband is being promoted across the area. Unfortunately, unless CDS’s phase 2 contracts are issued there will be no opportunity to build on what we have tried to suggest in our manifesto and in the Budget, in terms of levelling up in the south-west. The delay has come at a significant cost to residents, who have had to shoulder the burden themselves rather than expecting a service that is widespread across the country to be delivered. We have promised it and it is our duty to be able to deliver it for them.

If we look at our opportunities in terms of the businesses that we have, whether it is the great Salcombe, Brixham and Dartmouth gin distillers who wish to sell their produce across the world—and they do, by the way—or the photonics industry, a £13.5 billion industry that relies on digital connectivity even to function, we need to make sure that we have robust connectivity. Our fishermen and farmers also need to make sure they have strong access, to fill in their quota forms or report back to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs that they are fulfilling the environmental land management programme in future years. Those are all things that allow our society and our communities to function better. I hope that the Minister will address those issues and really assume the leadership that we need in the south-west. The south-west MPs are united on the issue. Digital and transport connectivity are essential, and we will keep knocking on his door about the issue until it is addressed. I hope that we will not need to have another debate like this.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Fovargue. I want to thank the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) for calling the debate. It has been a huge pleasure for me to listen to so many excellent and well-informed contributions. As a north-east MP, who is not allowed to travel far at the moment, I feel that I have been on a tour of Somerset and Devon and I very much appreciated it. I feel for the Members who have eloquently expressed concern about the impact of the lack of the digital infrastructure they need and deserve on the people of Devon and Somerset. I do not know whether the Minister has enjoyed the debate quite as much, but I shall briefly summarise some of what was said.

I was amazed to learn that Tiverton and Honiton’s ranking was as low as 627th, but then I found that North Devon is even further down. Obviously there are comparisons to be made, and someone has to come top and bottom. Even so, despite Devon and Somerset having 1.5% of households in the country, 5% of homes there are located in notspots. In Somerset West, one in 20 households are unable to receive the minimum 10 megabits, which is the Government’s definition of decent broadband. That figure increases to nearly 12% of households in east and west Devon. The hon. Members for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton), for East Devon (Simon Jupp), for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall), for North Devon, and for Tiverton and Honiton all emphasised how the pandemic had truly brought home to us the importance of connectivity at this time.

Every Member referenced the Connecting Devon and Somerset broadband scheme, which the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton described as too slow. However, the scheme exceeds the UK’s superfast broadband roll-out target set by the coalition Government, which called for 90% coverage by 2015. Unfortunately, mismanagement under the coalition Government meant that, nationally, the target was not reached and was missed by a year. If a local scheme that outperforms the Government’s is too slow and needs to be reviewed, the Government’s own position on broadband has been lacklustre and should also be up for review. [Interruption.] I do have mobile coverage here.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The hon. Lady started her speech by saying that she felt the experience of our lack of connectivity in the south-west. She is more than welcome to come and experience it at any time.

[Chi Onwurah]

I really am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that timely intervention. I meant to say that I felt for the experience, but I am keen to feel the actual experience in the gorgeous surroundings that he has so well described. The products and services sound so very attractive.

We have had 10 wasted years for telecoms infrastructure under this Government. I was a chartered engineer who worked in telecoms for 20 years before coming into Parliament, which I mention from time to time, and the decade that I have been in Parliament has coincided with a rapid relative decline in the quality of our telecommunications infrastructure. Labour made great strides in building a digital economy. Our Communications Act 2003 set out the strategy and vision for a decade. Our office of the internet was a world leader, and we oversaw the roll-out of the first generation of broadband to more than 50% of households by 2009.

Labour’s plans would have seen two-thirds of UK households have access to services of up to 40 megabits by 2015. Unfortunately, that is now not the case, consecutive Tory Governments having squandered that world-leading position. Several Members mentioned the need for effective competition and not the over-building of fibre to one home, and not the absence of any competition or a monopoly provider. Under Labour, we had competitive infrastructure competitions, including the local loop, but since then we have seen U-turns, dither and delay in infrastructure roll-out, including the BDUK scheme, which re-emphasised Openreach—indeed, BT—effectively as a monopoly provider. All phase 1 contracts and funding under the scheme went to British Telecom, and the Public Accounts Committee warned that that restricted the Department’s ability to insist on value for money. Will the Minister set out his strategy for encouraging effective competition, particularly in rural broadband? It is concerning to see that as a country that invented the fibre-optic cable—

Telecommunications (Security) Bill

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Carry-over motion & Carry-over motion: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 30th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

I join the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis) in welcoming this Bill in principle but giving it a qualified welcome. It amends the Communications Act 2003, and in terms of technology 2003 is light years away.

When I was at school computers were not as common as today and even having a telephone at home was a rarity, so great changes have taken place in these types of technologies—as I have seen even in my short lifetime—and the pace of change is only going to increase. That is why this Bill is welcome in updating our laws, and it will not be the last Bill we require, because as technology advances, further updating will be needed. However, as the right hon. Gentleman said, the Intelligence and Security Committee warned about all this in 2013. It was the same with the National Security and Investment Bill last week; the warnings have been there. Yes, there has been a change of direction in the Conservative party from panda hugging to panda bashing now as the flavour of the day, but the question of security should always be central to all this.

To be fair to the Government, they have not stood still. We have been ahead of other nations in terms of Huawei and security and having the Huawei cyber security evaluation centre, which has helped us protect our networks. But a balance must be struck between open competition and being able to interact with other nations, and also protecting our security.

I want to touch briefly on the issue of security, as that is what the Bill is about. I think some people are getting carried away in thinking that the Bill will be used in a protectionist way to protect our own suppliers or as a way of cutting off altogether any trade with regimes that we might have huge reservations about, such as China. We are never going to be able to do that. The powers in the Bill are clearly around security, and my only problem is with the definition of the word. I would argue that the way in which the Government approached the matter of the Huawei security centre had security its centre in order to protect our networks. As the Minister knows, I was one of those who agreed with the Government’s decision in July to allow Huawei to have 35% of the market as long as the security was there. The National Cyber Security Centre was clear in its evidence that that could be maintained. It was the American sanctions that changed that.

When a Secretary of State makes his or her decision on whether to take a vendor out, the important thing is that it is made on the ground of security. It is not clear from the Bill how that will be looked at. I would not want to see lobbying for a certain company, for example, or a situation such as we are currently seeing on the Conservative Back Benches where anything with “China” on it has to be resisted. I should point out that many people in the Chamber tonight will have mobile phones in their pockets that contain Chinese components. Even Ericsson and Nokia, which we are going to allow into our system, use components that are made in China. We cannot just close our minds to China altogether, so these decisions must have security at their centre.

Any decisions made by the Secretary of State have to be around security, and I have some concerns about DCMS having control over this. I raised a similar point on the National Security and Investment Bill. I am not sure that the Department has the necessary expertise. Personally, I would sooner see the Secretary of State taking such decisions alongside the National Security Council, or a sub-committee of the NSC, for example, to ensure that security could be at the heart of those decisions. Likewise, I have reservations about Ofcom. As a regulator, it has been around for quite a while now, but I wonder whether it has the expertise to look at the security sector.

A specific practical point about DCMS and Ofcom is that if a decision were taken by the Secretary of State on security grounds, a lot of the relevant information would be highly classified and would not be available to people without the necessary security clearance. I presume that the Secretary of State has the highest security clearance, but I doubt whether anyone in Ofcom would do so. I would like to hear more about how that will work in practice when they are dealing with highly classified information, because the Bill makes it clear that that is the only way in which a vendor can be struck from the marketplace.

Another issue, which has already been raised, is whether Ofcom will have the necessary budget and focus to undertake this work. The right hon. Member for New Forest East made the point about a revolving door, and that is an issue that concerns many people. There is a revolving door between industry, the various regulatory bodies and the Government.

There is also an issue around oversight. I do not see anything in the Bill that will allow parliamentary oversight of these decisions. Clause 17 refers to the Secretary of State being required to lay a copy of their decisions before Parliament, but there is also a get-out clause in that the requirement

“does not apply if the Secretary of State considers that laying a copy of the direction or notice (as the case may be) before Parliament would be contrary to the interests of national security.”

Anyone who has been in the House for any length of time and who has worked in this field will know that that is the usual way for civil servants to get out of any kind of question whatsoever. There is a need for oversight in this regard. I am not trying to make work for the Intelligence and Security Committee, which I am a member of, but it is the only Committee of Parliament that has a high enough security clearance to be able to see the information that will inform these decisions. Without that, there is an issue in the Bill in terms of how Parliament will scrutinise the Secretary of State’s decisions effectively.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I am sorry to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman while he is making such good progress. If a decision were not to be laid before Parliament, would he accept the idea of it going before the Intelligence and Security Committee?

[Mr Jones]

Yes. If we were able to see it, at least we would be able to get access to the intelligence that informed it. The DCMS has its own Select Committee, but that Committee does not have the clearance, so I would suggest taking the approach the hon. Gentleman describes. There is a way of doing that. Under the Justice and Security Act 2013, the DCMS does not come under the Intelligence and Security Committee’s remit, but we could change the memorandum of understanding to include this issue. I think that is needed, and I said the same thing on the National Security and Investment Bill.

On diversity, we would love to have a large number of vendors, but there is a clear issue we have to recognise. People talk about market failure. There has been a market failure because, in terms of Huawei and the Chinese state, there has been a deliberate decision to buy in to a sector. There has also been a tendency among us all, as consumers of telecoms services, to make sure that the rates go down as low as possible. That has led the prices down, so there is no money in the infrastructure at all, which is why companies have got out of the sector.

There is an area where diversity can come in, and that is open RAN. If the investment goes into that, we could be a world leader, but let us not make the mistakes we have in the past, where we have been a world leader—for example, in fibre technology in the early 1990s—and then gave that lead away.

On the removal of Huawei from the 5G network, the 2027 deadline needs to be maintained. I am sorry, but I think the Secretary of State is wrong in what he is suggesting. If he does what he suggests, that will add further costs and slow our progress. The equipment that is there now has been through the cyber security centre. We are satisfied that there is no security risk from that equipment, so why rip it out before we have to do so? All that that will do is slow our system down and slow the economic advantages that can come from 5G.

We have concentrated a lot in the debate on the hardware. Will the Bill somehow make us completely immune from cyber-attack? No, it will not. The other side to this, which is just as important, is to ensure that we educate companies to ensure that they use their systems safely and that upgrades are done on security networks and other things. That is about the basic education of the people who use a mobile phone or any type of computer network.

With those concerns, I welcome the Bill as a step forward. Let us see it not just as a way for us to somehow solve all our cyber-problems, because we will not. We still have to be vigilant, and we still have to make sure that our security services have the finance, ability and expertise to respond to the enemies who are attacking us.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to be able to speak in this debate and to follow my hon. Friend the Member for West Dorset (Chris Loder), who was so kind about me it almost makes me think he has set me up for a fall. It is also very good to be able to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) who we might think, having listened to his speech, has every single high-tech industry in his constituency. If that is the case, I am sure he will be willing to share some of it with the south-west.

My maiden speech was made during consideration of the Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill, and the shadow Minister was good enough to attend. After that, I have taken a keen interest in this topic and the issues of national security that surround it. The Minister has consistently met me, members of the inter-parliamentary alliance on China and those who had concerns about Huawei, and I thank him for doing so. The result that we have got today is a real progression and benefit to our national security network, and also an example of what we can do when the House works together in a consensual way.

We know that the international landscape is now far more varied and dangerous, and that it seeks to exploit domestic networks. A recent example of this was highlighted in a Bloomberg article that cited Nortel, a Canadian company that was so badly hacked—reportedly—by Huawei in 2000 that it led to the collapse of the company over a period of 10 years. Some 5,000 employees were working in my constituency in the early 2000s. That shows that a company supported by the Chinese state can have a dangerous impact on companies around the world, as well as on our own state infrastructure.

The steps in the Bill are very welcome. Not only will they check the dominance of international companies such as Huawei, but they will identify potential future threats. As right hon. and hon. Members have said, this is not an anti-China Bill or an anti-Huawei Bill; it is about national security and identifying future threats that we may face. It is also an opportunity to focus on our domestic market and what we can do to create new businesses and opportunities and use our homegrown talent. As the Secretary of State mentioned, the £250 million national telecommunications lab will be a perfect opportunity to cultivate and innovate new technologies and encourage new people to go into the sector. My hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) was kind enough to suggest that it should be based in his constituency, but I might also suggest that it comes down to the south-west and Paignton in my constituency, which has the high-tech EPIC centre focused on photonics. I will put that in there, and I hope to meet the Minister to discuss how we might make that happen.

As we know, how far we can go with this depends on how our willpower is positioned and our determination to cultivate British talent, skills and innovation. The diversification point has been made several times, and much has been said, but we also have to be conscious of the need to create the environment that will see new entrants into the marketplace. Relying on Ericsson and Nokia is all very well, but we can and will be able to develop new companies with our Five Eyes colleagues—the same point was made by the US Secretary of State earlier this year, looking at opportunities to build new companies together. Where diversification is limited, there are correct measures to guide and limit high-risk vendors in our telecommunications network, and those are contained in the Bill, notably in clauses 15 and 23.

I also take the point that the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) made about parliamentary oversight. I hope the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee, my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), will forgive me for suggesting that if the Government are unwilling to bring forward proposals for parliamentary oversight, they could go to that Committee so that it could scrutinise them. I apologise for adding to his workload, and I hope he does not think that that is a poor suggestion.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) mentioned convention rights, including human rights. One of the biggest grievances many of us have had in terms of Huawei’s role in our telecommunications infrastructure network relates to China’s violations of human rights. The Minister might say that this is not the right time or the right Bill to look at human rights, and if it is not the right Bill, I hope he will say in his closing remarks when the right time to address this point is. I know there are other opportunities, alongside the National Security and Investment Bill, but I would be keen to hear at which point we might address human rights.

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith]

I am listening carefully to my hon. Friend’s excellent speech. The Minister will note, as I pointed out to him, that this Bill is signed off on the basis of the application of rights, including human rights. Every Bill has the right to be amended.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his experience and knowledge in guiding me on that point. Of course, I accept that he is right on that matter. In that case, how might we address the issue I have raised?

We have righted a wrong. We have addressed an issue on which we have been seen as out of kilter with our international allies. Now, we have the opportunity to go further and to pass this fantastic piece of legislation. We can harness the international community and, as with the Augean stables, clear up the mess. We can make sure that, in future, we have a robust and secure telecommunications infrastructure network that is the pride of Britain.

Vaccine Misinformation Online

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Monday 19th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, may I thank you and Mr Speaker for granting this debate? It is great to see Members from across the House in attendance this evening, and I hope that the issue that I am going to talk about will have widespread cross-party support.

I will cut straight to the chase: I have no time whatsoever for so-called anti-vaxxers, but I am afraid that the swelling evidence we have seen over the past few months of the pernicious impact of misinformation about vaccines now demands our attention, and it demands action.

Day after day, week after week in this place, we rightly come together to debate and discuss the best ways we can get on top of this virus and, ultimately, defeat it. Each one of us in this place knows that there is no silver-bullet solution to this public health and economic crisis, but we also know that identifying a clinically safe and effective vaccine is the damned nearest we are likely to get. However, I am afraid that the rapid and incessant corrosion of public confidence in vaccines propagated by the anti-vax movement risks threatening the success of the most powerful future tool we could have in our armoury.

Let me say at the outset that I am not against scrutiny of vaccines or people raising legitimate questions that may need answering. The public have a right to scrutinise vaccination policy as much as any other Government policy, but that must be done in an informed and measured way, based on facts rather than nonsensical conspiracy theories involving Bill Gates, or anyone else for that matter. Part of that process has to involve the Government being much more proactive about countering some of the scare stories and falsehoods peddled by the anti-vax movement, which play on people’s understandable fears.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is making great progress, and he is talking about an issue that is of severe importance to my constituency, which has a 10% lower than average vaccination rate for measles, mumps and rubella. The misinformation that is being spread is palpable, and it is dangerous not only to schoolchildren but to adults. Will he therefore expand a little on the role of education in ensuring that we can inform people and re-energise their understanding and confidence that they are taking vaccines that will help them?

[Chris Elmore]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman and thank him for that intervention, for two reasons. First, it is very worrying that the UK no longer has measles-free status. That is a real worry for us all. Secondly, on education, there is a huge piece of work to be done where people are rightly questioning vaccine development processes. We are taught that it takes many years to develop vaccines. However, what people are not acknowledging through their legitimate questions is that the whole world is now looking for a vaccine. There is more funding and more availability of scientists working towards trying to solve this problem, so I agree with the hon. Gentleman entirely.

In private, I think even Ministers would agree that far too much of the Government’s response to the crisis has been typified by being too slow: too slow to lockdown, too slow to support business, too slow to test and trace effectively—but possibly too fast to Barnard Castle. But when all is said and done, I genuinely appreciate the huge pressure Ministers have been under over the past seven months. Mistakes are inevitable and hindsight is all too often a wonderful thing. The message I want to send to those on the Government Benches is that when it comes to the anti-vax movement, we do not need the benefit of hindsight. We simply cannot afford to be too slow yet again. We know that dangerous misinformation is eroding public trust in a potential future vaccine. We know that a lot of misinformation is being spread online and we know that the social media giants are systematically failing to act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We do all have to be singing from the same hymn sheet and giving out the same information.

We are taking a very proactive whole-of-Government approach to this. My Department—the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport—has the responsibility for monitoring and analysing anti-vaccine narratives. My officials are working very closely with the vaccine taskforce, which comes out of the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, while the Department of Health and Social Care is responsible for delivering effective communications around the vaccine. I meet my ministerial colleagues very frequently on this.

First and foremost, we are working with partners in the NHS, including GPs and nurses, to explain to patients the importance of vaccines. I am pleased that many organisations in the media and social media are acting very responsibly in providing accurate information. We are also working at pace to ensure that accurate information is available and accessible online, but we also have to address the swathes of inaccurate and misleading content alongside it. That is why we stood up the cross-Whitehall counter-disinformation unit in March as part of the Government response to covid-19.

[Anthony Mangnall]

My hon. Friend is making a very important point. I am sorry to have two bites at the cherry, but the point is that there is a knock-on impact from what people read online and then spread within their communities. Those who do not have access to online services are, in certain cases, hearing information first-hand from people they know, respect and are likely to believe. What direction might the Government be going in to try to counter that as a source of information?

[Caroline Dinenage]

As I say, we are working with a whole range of other Government Departments. The Department of Health is very much leading on the communication of this, and my Department is leading on the liaison with the platforms to ensure that tackling anti-vaccination messaging remains one of the key priorities of the cross-Whitehall counter-disinformation unit that we lead. We have been working with partners across Government to tackle this.

As the hon. Member for Ogmore said, we have seen some of the major social media companies update their terms of service and introduce new measures. Most recently, YouTube extended its policies to address false information. These are steps in the right direction. However, this year the Secretary of State for DCMS asked the major platforms to explore how they need to go further to stop the spread of this content. More needs to be done, more must be done, and we will continue to put pressure on these companies to take the necessary action against misinformation in all its guises.

It is really key that users are empowered with the knowledge and skills they need to keep themselves safe online as well. This includes how we recognise and report false and misleading content. We can all do our bit, whether it is fact-checking something before we share it or reporting something that is potentially harmful. Importantly, the Government are committed to publishing an online media literacy strategy that will set out our plans to ensure a co-ordinated and strategic approach to online media literacy, education and awareness for all users. That is due to be published next spring.

While covid has demonstrated the positive power of the internet, we have all seen that the increased amount of time spent online provides an opportunity for the spread of falsehood. The Government remain absolutely steadfast in our determination to tackle misinformation and disinformation in all its forms.

Question put and agreed to.

Tourism: Covid-19

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on securing this debate. She and I and all members of the Devon community have been working together over the past six months to ensure that tourism and hospitality have a strong voice in this place. Groups such as the Devon economic recovery organisation are looking forward to supporting the sector further as we go into a troubling winter and 2021.

For many businesses across my constituency, it has been a successful summer, but one where they faced great difficulties. Huge demand in areas such as Salcombe, Dartmouth, Brixham and Paignton has led to residents being faced with people visiting being rude and trying to escape covid in certain cases. That is not acceptable, but those who work in our sector have been true heroes in trying to regain their losses from the lockdown, restore confidence in their sector and make sure they can see a path forward through this winter.

A few months ago, we put together a letter calling for the Government to cut VAT to 5% for tourism and hospitality, and I am delighted that the Government listened. I am delighted that so many Members across the House have supported the calls for a continuation of VAT at 5%. That will be the necessary breathing space for so many of those businesses. It will give them the chance to get through this winter and face 2021 with a great deal more cash in their bank account, but also the understanding that the Government are on their side.

The other suggestion that I would like to put forward, which has been mentioned by a few Members across the House, is that of rebranding VisitBritain from a worldwide campaign to a new domestic campaign that will promote domestic tourism. We have great things on offer across the country, and we should be highlighting what they can provide to our own residents and citizens.

The third point I would like to touch on is flexibility between the rural and urban sectors of tourism. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) will touch on the issue, but there is a great distinction between rural and urban tourism, and there needs to be flexibility in how we engage and support those sectors. That is a call not just for more money, but to understand how those sectors work and how we can support them as new measures come in around social distancing or as this virus plays out over the winter.

The hon. Member for Angus (Dave Doogan) touched on transport and coaches and all of that, but we must also look at how we can improve transport. The Government are improving local and rural transport links, and that can also encourage a drive in domestic tourism. Easier access to rail and more ability to get to those communities across our country should give us the ability to draw more demand.

This sceptred isle set in a sea of silver will surely welcome people back in the future, and I look forward to our communities all working together to drive such demands.

BBC

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Whittingdale]

It is not a devolved matter. However, I did have an extremely good conversation this morning with Rhodri Williams, the new chair of S4C, which of course also benefits from the licence fee.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I know you are a man who likes to Netflix and chill, Mr Speaker, but with the rise of on-demand services such as Amazon Prime and Netflix, is it still right that we are criminalising non-payment of the fee for the BBC?

UK Telecommunications

Anthony Mangnall Excerpts

Tuesday 14th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

The advice that we have received today relates to the impact of the US sanctions. The US has imposed sanctions specifically on 5G. We have analysed the impact of those sanctions. It has undermined the reliability of Huawei equipment, which is why we are now advising, and then will set out in statute, that mobile network operators can no longer purchase that equipment.

[Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con)]

I welcome the Government’s announcement and the fact that they have listened to Members across the House. It is right that they have taken action from the US approach and its implementation of sanctions. But if the Government are going to be clear-eyed about China, they must also be clear-eyed about the human rights violations reportedly being undertaken by Huawei and its use of slave labour. It is not acceptable for a global Britain to be involved with a company that is perpetually using slave labour in its supply chains. Will my right hon. Friend work with me and Members across the House to ensure that we can bring forward the 2027 date?

[Oliver Dowden]

I thank my hon. Friend for his support, but I think there are slightly separate questions about the timings and the issue of human rights abuses. He is absolutely right to raise the issue of human rights abuses, and that is something we are addressing through the modern slavery Bill. We should not be having any companies operating in the United Kingdom relying on slavery, so we have introduced the modern slavery Bill. Indeed, there is an amendment that will be considered in the Lords very shortly which deals precisely with that issue, and we are working with peers to address that.