Social Care in England
Lord Kamall Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, for securing a debate on such an important subject. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Donaghy, for her commiserations on my having this post. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, for the experience she brings to the debate today, including her contribution to carers as former chief executive of Carers UK and her work in the voluntary sector, being a founding member of the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organisations and chair of the New Opportunities Fund—one of the National Lottery distributors.
I am sure we all wish to recognise and thank the social care workforce, both paid and unpaid, and many noble Lords have done so in their tributes today. We should thank them for the work they do in care homes, in people’s homes and in day services, day after day, week after week and month after month.
I also thank the noble Baroness for her thoughtful comments and the well-argued case she has put before the House. We have heard many moving testimonies from across the Chamber. As noble Baronesses have said, this pandemic has provided a once-in-a-generation challenge for this country. There is no getting away from the fact that the past 18 months have been incredibly tough for social care. The challenges have been unprecedented—what Nassim Nicholas Taleb would describe as a black swan event. Many people, not only in the UK but in many other countries, have lost loved ones because of the virus. Our hearts go out to each and every one of them. It demonstrates the importance of this debate today.
I thank the noble Baroness for summing up the numbers that we should all be aware of: 9 million unpaid carers before Covid, 4.5 million new carers, totalling 13.5 million—including 2.5 million who are holding down jobs. I also thank the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Oxford for his quote from one of the 10 commandments. I am sure he will agree that people of many other faiths and no faith also agree very strongly with the importance of parents and looking after our loved ones as they get older.
Many have said that it has been a real challenge, and we agree. As the Prime Minister said,
“we are … committed to learning lessons”—[Official Report, Commons, 12/5/21; col. 138.]
from the pandemic. When the pandemic hit, the Government worked hard to ensure that the sector got the support it needed as quickly as possible. The Government published guidance tailored to care homes and care providers, domiciliary care, unpaid workers and local authorities on how to continue to safely provide care during the Covid-19 outbreak. We rolled out regular testing for the sector and have sent more than 42 million PCR swab test kits and 117 million lateral flow devices to care homes to date. We set up a massive PPE supply chain from scratch and, through the PPE portal, have provided over 3.6 billion items of free PPE for providers’ Covid-19 needs, and, since April 2020, more than 478 million items through local resilience forums and local authorities.
The Government also moved as quickly as possible to provide financial support to the sector, making available almost £2.4 billion in specific funding for adult social care throughout the pandemic. This is in addition to over £6 billion that has been made available to local authorities to address pressures on their services. Many noble Lords spoke about the importance of local authority funding.
Crucially, we have provided health and care workers and older residents with vaccines. From 11 November, vaccinations will be a condition of deployment for care home staff. I know many will want to reflect on this point. It is worth noting that many staff—the vast majority of care home staff—have been vaccinated. It is our responsibility to do as much as we can to encourage others to be vaccinated to reduce the risk in our care homes. I know if I had a relative in a care home, I would feel much better if they were cared for by someone who had been vaccinated. I hope that across the House we can encourage more care workers to be vaccinated. Of course, there are some who are unable to be vaccinated for medical reasons and we should address their concerns too. Those people should call 119 to apply for a medical exemption.
As noble Lords can see, the Government have provided a huge number of resources to the sector to deliver better care. Of course there will always be a debate on whether the spending is enough. I have heard from across the House how many have responded to the numbers suggested. Looking to the future, the Government will maintain support, both in the short term to address the impact of Covid-19 and, more crucially, in the longer term through the social care reforms. In the short term, the sector will be supported by continuing to be provided with free PPE to protect against Covid-19 until the end of March 2022. This is also extended in designated settings, backed by the extension of the designated settings indemnity support scheme, to March 2022, so that no patient who has tested positive for Covid in the past 14 days is discharged from hospital to a care home.
In addition, in September, the Government announced an additional £388 million to prevent the spread of infection in social care settings. This package includes funding for infection control measures, as some have spoken about, £25 million to support care workers to access Covid-19 and flu vaccines over the winter months, and funding for testing costs, allowing testing to continue for staff, residents and visitors, to ensure that residents can see their loved ones as safely as possible. As part of the preparations for winter, plans are being developed in conjunction with the NHS and social care sector stakeholders. This will draw on the recommendations of Sir David Pearson’s review of last year’s winter plan, advice from SAGE and UK HSE, and—more importantly—on the lessons learned so far in the pandemic.
Our country’s social healthcare system has never been under such pressure as it has been over the past year. Many noble Lords have spoken about the pressure. The coronavirus pandemic posed unprecedented challenges to the sector, so we all agree that we must address the long-term future of social care in this country.
Many people have said that this issue has been live for a number of years. The noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, spoke of social care having been “in the shadows” for many years; the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick, said that people have been talking about this for years; the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, spoke of the 1999 minority report. However, this debate has been going on for much longer. It has been decades—I think someone said 50 years. If we are honest about it, various experts have warned for decades that the combination of an ageing population and increased life expectancy poses a real challenge to social care. What happened? The debate continued, more think tank reports were produced, other reports were produced, and parties published suggestions in their manifestos. But in reality, all of these were placed on the shelf and just gathered dust, while successive Governments, of all colours, kicked the proverbial can down the road.
The Prime Minister decided that his Government would not shirk the responsibility and stepped up to publish a plan, Build Back Better: Our Plan for Health and Social Care, pledging an extra £5.4 billion over three years for social care. I also thank my noble friend Lord Astor for his comments on a bolder programme of reform. We need to make sure that, whatever additional funds are provided, there is reform, so that the public can have confidence that the additional funds will be well spent.
The Prime Minister’s September announcement was an important step on the journey to reforming adult social care. Of course there will be debate—any reform or change leads to debate. I worked for many years in organisational change and know that any change always generates a large debate. There are some short-term winners and losers—many people will clearly claim that they have lost out and others will gain, but, quite often, the gainers are not as vocal as those who have lost out, and rightly so. We should address those who have genuine concerns. It is really important that we learn from many of the concerns across the House today.
The Prime Minister’s announcement showed a real commitment to delivering world-leading health and social care across the whole of the UK. As we speak, details are being discussed in preparation for a White Paper on reforming adult social care, to be published later this year, as the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, pointed out in her intervention. We hope that the reforms will make a real difference to front-line adult social care. This includes both care users and the dedicated care workforce, who have been so brilliant throughout the pandemic.
We also know that there has been a debate over whether funding should come from general taxation or national insurance contributions. Having looked at this debate when I was head of research at a think tank, I have seen a range of views across the political spectrum—there are even some who have asked why people should not sell their homes to fund their care. So you can imagine the range of views that we have heard and read over many years. We really hope that these reforms will make a difference. While there is a range of views, I will outline some of the proposed reforms that we hope will deliver better care for adults of all ages.
First, the £86,000 cap on care costs, funded by a health and care levy, means that, for the first time, everyone will have protection from unlimited costs. There are those who have prudently saved for their old age and who have been hit hard by the unpredictable costs associated with their health and care needs; currently, one in seven faces fees of over £100,000.
Secondly, individuals with limited or no savings will be safeguarded by a more generous means test. The increase in the upper capital limit from £23,250 to £100,000, and in the lower capital limit from £14,250 to £20,000, means that the number of adults receiving some state support will increase from around half to two-thirds. In short, some people who need care, and their loved ones, will have the certainty of support when it is needed and will not have to live in fear of unpredictable costs.
In wanting to propose the fairest reforms possible, the Government decided to fund these measures with a new UK-wide health and social care levy. The Government are absolutely clear that we should not pass on the costs to future generations and increase public debt even further. There is much debate over this, but, by using national insurance contributions, the Government are ensuring that both businesses and individuals contribute. Those who are earning more will pay more. It has a clear UK-wide approach, meaning that everyone pays the same, wherever they live in the UK. In addition, by extending the levy to those working over the state pension age from April 2023—many will of course complain, and I understand that—the Government have listened to those concerns and balanced them with intergenerational justice. Many young people have asked why they are being asked to pay for people. We need to make sure that individuals of all ages play their part.
However, we should also recognise that this is not just about the over-65s. In adult social care currently, over half of all state spending goes towards under-65s—so working-age people will also benefit from limits on what they have to pay if they need care for themselves in later life. This was considered consistent with the contributory principle for national insurance contributions, whereby working-age employees pay these NICs and this gives them access to contributory benefits when out of work, including the state pension.
I will turn to the paid social care workforce, which many of us have paid tribute to. We have listened to the sector and prioritised the adult social care workforce, recognising their tireless commitment and dedication during the pandemic. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, spoke movingly about the hospice movement and the work/life balance that we want to see. Many people have asked what is being done to ensure that working carers can balance their caring responsibilities with work. The Government are committed to promoting the benefits of retaining unpaid carers in the workforce, for both the carer and the employer. The Government’s response to the consultation on carers’ leave confirms their intention to deliver on the manifesto commitment to introduce a new entitlement to one week of leave for unpaid carers. This will be a day 1 right, available to all employees who are providing care to a dependant with long-term care needs. I will obviously send more details to any noble Lords who would like them.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Pitkeathley and Lady Finlay, and my noble friend Lord Astor and others mentioned spending. We need to make sure that the Build Back Better plan for health and social care sets out an intention to make care work a more rewarding vocation. Many noble Lords have spoken about this. We need to offer a career where people can develop new skills and take on new challenges as they become more experienced. The Government are committed to spending at least £500 million over three years to deliver hundreds and thousands of training places and certifications, pathways, and well-being and mental health support. This workforce package is a significant investment that will support the development and well-being of the workforce. I hope that that partly answers some of the questions of the noble Lords, Lord Bichard and Lord Sikka, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley.
We will continue to support the social work fast-track programmes Step Up to Social Work and Think Ahead, designed to support those wanting to change specialism to become a social worker and make a real difference to people’s lives. As one noble Lord said today, this is an incredibly noble profession. We will continue to introduce further reforms to improve recruiting and support for social care, with more details in the forthcoming White Paper. I am as eager as anyone in this House to see that paper, so that we can have a proper cross-party discussion on the reforms that are much needed.
Speaking as Minister for Technology, I will touch on one of the points that many have raised. I have made digitisation and data sharing one of my key priorities, as Minister for Technology, Innovation and Life Sciences. I hope that digital technology will play a key role in helping adult social care workers to do their jobs even more effectively.
However, we should also recognise the vital role of unpaid carers, as many have said, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Warwick and Lady Tyler. We want to build a system of care to better support unpaid carers, as well as helping recipients of care to have more choice and control over their lives, what they do and how they choose to live. Throughout the pandemic, the Government have taken a number of steps to support unpaid carers, such as funding charities that support carers, producing Covid-19 guidance tailored for carers, helping carers self-identify and ensuring access to and priority for PPE and vaccinations. The Government will work with representatives across the sector, including those who represent carers, to develop more detailed plans for social care reform together, ensuring that unpaid carers receive the support, advice and respite that they need.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, said, there is an incredible amount of expertise in this House, and that has come through in the many contributions to today’s debate. I will work with noble Lords across the House as the health and social care Bill goes through it.
I am not sure how much longer I have.
Lord Kamall (Con)
Thank you. Noble Lords will have to forgive the new boy. Now someone is saying I have two minutes—there we are.
There are many questions I wanted to go through in detail, so I hope noble Lords will accept my apologies for being too verbose in many ways and not answering the detailed issues. I will write to noble Lords on any particular points. Clearly, I do not have a realistic estimate of my speaking time—let us put it that way.
Once again, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley—
Lord Birt (CB)
The Minister has, understandably, focused largely on the funding issues. However, does he accept that unless there is fundamental organisational reform at the front line, we will not continue, whatever the level of funding, to deliver services in the most appropriate way?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Birt, for his question. Yes, I agree.
The Government have provided support to our fantastic social care sector; many will debate whether it is enough and what more can be done, and we recognise that. However, we want to continue to address the many challenges. We will work with stakeholders on the plans for reform that we have set out, publishing more details in a White Paper later this year, when I hope we will have more discussions and debates.
I have spoken far too slowly but, finally, I know that we are all deeply committed to supporting the social care sector. I think we would all want to join together, whatever our views on various parts of the debate, in thanking all the amazing people on the front line providing care, who go the extra mile each day, week, month and year, some for those they love and others because it is a noble profession. As we have an ageing population, it is important that we tackle this issue, which has, as I say, been kicked down the road for many generations. Not all proposals will be perfect and any proposal will of course have its critics —that is the nature of political debate. However, I hope very much that in producing the proposals—and producing something rather more than a blank sheet of paper—that we can all debate, I will learn from the expertise and the points made in today’s debate from across the House to make the forthcoming Bill a more successful and more appropriate Bill that recognises the hard work and dedication of all care workers, whether paid or unpaid.
Health: Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
Lord Kamall Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Thornton
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the decision to delay the planned new guidelines on the diagnosis and management of ME/CFS, what assessment they have made of the ability of the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to carry out its functions; and when they expect such guidance to be published.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)
NICE is seen as a world leader in the translation of research into authoritative, evidence-based clinical guidelines, and the Government have confidence in NICE’s ability to carry out its functions effectively. We all know that ME/CFS is a complex condition and, as we understand, a range of views about its management have been expressed during the development of the updated guidelines. To address as wide a range of views as possible, NICE is holding a round table with stakeholders next Monday to discuss these issues and will then take a decision on the next steps.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
First, of course, I welcome the Minister to his place and his job. There is nothing like hitting the ground running, since he has got to do three Questions in a row—that does not often happen. My Question was prompted by two important issues. First, public confidence in NICE’s methodology, and indeed NICE’s own confidence in its methodology, are vital. If the Minister says that the Government have confidence in NICE, it begs the question why the Government are not demanding that the ME/CFS guidance, three years in the writing and with patient support, is not being published immediately.
Secondly, I will quote from one of the many emails that I have had about this issue: “Thank you in advance for speaking up for ME patients. No treatment is better than harmful treatment. My daughter is now bedbound with severe ME due to GET”. GET is the current medical treatment regime for ME/CFS sufferers, which these guidelines say should be reformed. Did NICE come under pressure to pull these guidelines because of medical vested interests in the delivery of GET, particularly since they believe that this is the treatment for long Covid?
Lord Kamall (Con)
First, I thank the noble Baroness for her warm welcome. I look forward to many exchanges with her and to learning from Ministers across the House and those who have been in the Department of Health and Social Care before. I know that the noble Baroness is recognised as a champion of the 250,000 people who are living with ME/CFS. As the noble Baroness knows, there are a number of complex symptoms, and experts disagree over the multifaceted way to address this.
As the noble Baroness knows, the NICE guidelines were delayed twice. They were first delayed because it wanted to make sure that it had taken on board all the various submissions that had been made; they were delayed a second time because, just as they were about to be announced, concerns were raised by clinicians and other stakeholders. If you are going to have guidelines, it is important that they are accepted and recognised by as wide a range of stakeholders as possible; otherwise, they might lose their authority.
We want to make sure that, whenever we have this situation and there are people with a range of views, we get them around a table and have a conversation, as common sense tells us, to see if we can agree on a way forward. I very much hope that, once we have had this round table, we will be able to agree a way forward.
Lord Bethell (Con)
My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to the Dispatch Box as a Minister for the Department of Health and Social Care and Minister for Life Sciences. It is, without doubt, the best job in government, and I know that he will acquit himself extremely well.
We are making huge progress on the syndrome called “long Covid”, and I note the encouraging progress that NICE is making on guidance for post-Covid syndrome. But does the Minister accept that this shines a clear spotlight on how far behind and wrongheaded we are with the diagnosis and management of ME and CFS? In particular, does he accept that, in the interests of health equality and national productivity, we need to rethink the way that people are got back on their feet after they have been hit by these horrible viruses?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank my noble friend—my predecessor—for his warm words and his offer of advice to me, as I find my feet and find myself swimming at the deep end, if you like, in this job. Usually, when I get a question like this, I say, “I will ask my predecessor” but clearly, he has a question for me.
My noble friend is absolutely right that we have to be concerned about how we help those who are suffering from ME and chronic fatigue syndrome, but he will recognise that there is a range of views on this issue. If we want these guidelines to be widely accepted and respected, it is important that we get as many stakeholders around the table as possible. NICE has agreed to this round table; hopefully, we can then move forward.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
My Lords, I too welcome the Minister to his post. I declare that I have been vice chair of the NICE committee that produced the revised guidelines on ME/CFS over the past three years, through consensus agreement in the committee. This was fully compliant with NICE’s rigorous processes. Will the Government work with commissioners to ensure that appropriate specialist services for patients with ME are developed and continue, and that services monitor accounts of harms as well as benefits?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for her warm welcome. I am new to this and, as you can imagine, I am still learning the ropes and learning about NICE and its processes. However, I agree with the noble Baroness: it is really important that we address the issues she raises and if she writes to me, I will ask for some advice and respond to her.
Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that patient groups and charities are key in providing support to these patients? They are very concerned about the absence of guidelines, particularly as they have been involved in their production. Could the Minister offer them any reassurance about the timing of the guidelines?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I understand that NICE wants to publish these guidelines as quickly as possible. It is very aware that there have been two delays: first, to make sure that it took on board the various comments; and secondly, the current delay because of issues raised by some clinician groups. As noble Lords will understand, NICE is independent from the Government. It hopes to progress this issue by having the roundtable, hearing all the different views and seeing if some consensus can be reached before the guidelines are published.
Baroness Scott of Needham Market (LD)
Does the Minister accept that the prevailing view in some quarters that ME is a psychological disease is causing untold harm, including to children and young people, who are being forced to accept treatments which are damaging to them, and to their parents, who are sometimes accused of abuse? Taking time to achieve consensus is one thing, but the Minister should be aware that there is a huge cost to this.
Lord Kamall (Con)
It is always important to recognise the unintended consequences and the costs of any delay. I can understand the frustration of many who have ME/CFS at the delay to the publication of the guidelines. It is important that we try to get as much consensus as possible. If noble Lords feel that there are further delays, I hope they will write to and put pressure on me and wider stakeholders, so that we can put pressure on NICE, but it is important that we try to achieve as much consensus as possible.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl)
My Lords, what issues were raised during the pre-publication period for the final guidelines which merited a pause in publication?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for her question. The issues related to some of the guidelines concerning GET. There was a concern that these would be deleted. Some groups and stakeholders expressed the concern that, while some patients clearly found these damaging, others might find them helpful, or partly helpful—not as a cure in themselves but as part of their treatment. That is why NICE convened this roundtable to ensure that it hears a wide range of views. Hopefully, this can achieve some sort of consensus and help stakeholders to understand where others are coming from, so that some sort of agreement can be reached.
Baroness Cumberlege (Con)
Those who have had the opportunity—and, indeed, the fortitude—to read the report First Do No Harm have been struck by the treatment of women, who have suffered greatly at the hands of a minority of members of the medical profession. Today, we have another example. Patients have been dismissed, ignored and not believed, and the majority of them are women. Can my noble friend give an assurance that women will be listened to and not treated in the way that many of us, men and women, have found appalling?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank my noble friend for her question and for making time to meet with me in the early days of my job and give me the benefit of her experience, particularly on the issues she covered in the Cumberlege review. It is absolutely right that we praise our health service when it does well, but we should also be able to acknowledge when mistakes are made or when patients do not receive the kind of service we expect them to. It is important that my noble friend and others push me, as the Minister, and the Department of Health and Social Care to make sure that we are addressing the genuine needs of patients and that patients are not ignored. I pledge that I will be a champion of patients.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.
Virginity Testing
Lord Kamall Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)
My Lords, they said today would be a baptism of fire, and I did expect this, I will be honest.
The Government are committed to safeguarding women and girls, which is why in the tackling violence against women and girls, or VAWG, strategy—as noble Lords know, DHSE loves acronyms—we announced our intention to ban virginity testing. It is widely acknowledged that such tests have no scientific merit or clinical indication, are a violation of human rights and have an adverse impact on girls’ and women’s well-being. Details of any offence are being carefully considered and the Government will make virginity testing illegal when parliamentary time allows.
Baroness Sugg (Con)
My Lords, I join others in welcoming my noble friend to his ministerial position and wish him all the best in his important brief. I am very encouraged by the clear indication in the violence against women and girls strategy that the Government intend to ban virginity testing when parliamentary time allows. The Health and Care Bill allows just that, and I hope that the Government will accept the amendments in the other place.
Virginity testing is inextricably linked with hymenoplasty, and any commitment to ban virginity testing will be undermined if we do not ban them both together. I am aware of an expert panel that has been convened on this, but I do not believe that it is necessary, as experts are aligned that there is no clinical or ethical reason for either invasive or harmful practice. Can the Minister tell me when that panel will report back so that action can be taken as quickly as possible, and we do not miss the opportunity to ban hymenoplasty in the Health and Care Bill at the same time as banning virginity testing?
Lord Kamall (Con)
We completely agree with my noble friend’s sentiments. It is really important that we ban virginity testing and hymenoplasty as soon as possible. The issue on hymenoplasty in particular is that, unfortunately, because it is classified as a cosmetic procedure, introducing legislation in this space might take away the right for women to make decisions about procedures that they wish to have and be counter to current regulation on cosmetic surgery. It is important that we work out how we can ban this practice, but those objections have been raised—and if those legal objections have been raised, we have to be careful that we work properly to make sure that we ban these procedures.
I give the commitment that I shall push as much as possible to make sure that we ban both virginity testing and hymenoplasty as soon as possible. My noble friend mentioned the amendments in the other place. The Member who submitted those amendments has been in consultation with the Department for Health and Social Care, and we hope to be able to introduce those changes, particularly those bans, as soon as possible.
Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]
My Lords, I also welcome the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, to the Dispatch Box. I want to pick up on points that the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, raised. Some private clinics advertise these procedures to women, which perpetuate myths around virginity, falling way below the standards of honesty and integrity that are rightly expected of doctors. Indeed, the GMC ethical guidance on communicating information explicitly outlines that, when advertising your services, you must make sure that the information that you publish is factual, can be checked, and does not exploit patients. We have waited far too long for this to be made illegal. Can the Minister please press to make this happen sooner rather than later?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank the noble Baroness for her question, but also for having a meeting with me to discuss some of the issues that we will debate in future weeks and months. All preparation and revision are welcome.
I give a pledge that I will push back at my department and push to have both these practices banned as quickly as possible. However, as I said, some concerns have been raised from a legal perspective, given that hymenoplasty is a cosmetic procedure. All of us would agree that this is an awful thing and that it should be banned, but I want to make sure that in doing it we are very careful. A few years ago, I was a research director for a think tank, and one issue that I always considered with any change of law was unintended consequences. We have to be clear that we do this in a proper way, and I hope that we can introduce these bans as soon as possible.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)
My Lords, I join others in welcoming my noble friend to the Dispatch Box. Virginity testing is such a demeaning process and, as has already been mentioned, an abuse against women. In October 2018, the UN human rights office, UN Women and the World Health Organization issued a joint statement calling for the end of this horrid practice, saying that it was a
“medically unnecessary, and oftentimes painful, humiliating and traumatic practice”.
What is the UK doing to support the World Health Organization, UN Women and the UN human rights office to ban this across the world and to mobilise other countries to outlaw this practice domestically?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank my noble friend for her warm welcome. In answer to her specific question, the Government absolutely agree with the World Health Organization’s view that virginity testing is a violation of the victim’s human rights and is associated with immediate and long-term consequences that are detrimental to physical, psychological and social well-being—as well as, in simple terms, being demeaning.
On my noble friend’s specific question about what we are doing with the World Health Organization, I shall write to her with more details.
Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)
My Lords, virginity testing is an abuse of women and a denial of their rights over their own body. The same private clinics can offer virginity testing and, once they have decided that a woman or a girl is not a virgin, they can then offer hymen repair procedure. Does the Minister agree that this should be illegal and that it is a total abuse of that clinic’s profession? Having listened, as I can hear he has, to campaigners and professionals, will he give a stronger assurance that something will be done in the Health and Care Bill?
Lord Kamall (Con)
The noble Baroness makes a valid point; I do not think anyone in this House would disagree with what she said. Virginity testing is demeaning and hymenoplasty is not only demeaning but damaging to women’s and girls’ health and we want it to be banned as soon as possible. I give a pledge that I will push for this to be introduced as soon as possible. Whenever noble Lords are told that the Government will find parliamentary time to do something, I understand why there might be some scepticism about that, but I will push to make sure that we can introduce it as soon as possible.
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)
My Lords, virginity testing and hymenoplasty have to be made illegal at the same time, and rather than talking about it as a cosmetic procedure, it should be seen as a form of abuse. When I read the guidance from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, it is rather limp. I encourage the Minister to ensure that the medical professions recognise that they will have an integral part in reporting and preventing any of this, just as they had when we started in the early days with FGM, because it is no good creating an offence without it being enforced and actually punished.
Lord Kamall (Con)
I give the noble Baroness the assurance that I agree—I do not think anyone disagrees—that we should try to ban both these practices as soon as possible. The issue is that although I do not personally consider it a cosmetic procedure, legally it is considered as such, and that is why we have to be a little more careful about how we address the issue in legal terms, and the exact drafting of the ban. Of course, any medical professional who carries out these procedures following a ban will be breaking the law, and that is absolutely right. The other issue we then have to consider is what penalty those who break the law in this way will face.
Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)
My Lords, I welcome the Government’s renewed commitment to making virginity testing illegal, but I hope the fate of similar commitments in the health and care sector does not befall it. It is now four years since the Government made a similar pledge to end another degrading and cruel practice, that of so-called gay conversion therapy, and we are no nearer action to making it illegal than we were in 2017. Does my noble friend understand the frustration of those who want to see this repulsive practice banned but are having to wait for endless consultations and a failure to find parliamentary time? Is not the Health and Care Bill the perfect vehicle to fulfil this long-standing government commitment?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank my noble friend for that question. I think we all agree, as he said, that conversion therapy is an awful practice and should be outlawed. The Government have made a commitment to outlaw it. There is an interesting thing, when we talk about the history of various commitments from the Front Bench and whether they were implemented: around Christmas time, we often see advertisements saying, “A dog—or a puppy—is for life, not just for Christmas”. As we know, with ministerial life, it is the opposite: a ministerial portfolio is for Christmas, not for life. However, when I look back at my time, I would ask people to judge me on my actions.
Baroness Merron (Lab)
My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his place and wish him well. In addition to private examinations performed by gynaecologists and other medical professionals, campaigners report that victims are often subject to extremely crude examinations performed at home by family members, involving such means as inserting fingers into the vagina to check if the hymen is intact. What steps are the Government taking to tackle such hidden forms of abuse?
Lord Kamall (Con)
One issue we have to think about whenever we bring in any new law or ban is the unintended consequences. One unintended consequence that has been raised is that doing so might drive this practice not only into the home but underground. If we make it illegal, it is illegal; we must make sure that, when someone subjects a woman or girl to that awful experience, everyone knows it is illegal and that they will face the full force of the law.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.
Health: Type 2 Diabetes
Lord Kamall Excerpts(2 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the data analysis by Diabetes UK, published on 6 October, which suggests that one in three adults in the United Kingdom could be at increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes by 2030.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Kamall) (Con)
I thank noble Lords for giving me a pause for breath; I appreciate the patience they have shown me today. The Government welcome Diabetes UK’s research in increasing our understanding of diabetes and are committed to reducing and preventing type 2 diabetes, particularly in those groups who are more at risk of developing it and face poorer outcomes. This is why the Government launched the NHS diabetes prevention programme and the healthy weight strategy to look at ways to tackle weight gain and reduce children’s exposure to high-fat and high-sugar foods, including using digital tools to reach key groups.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and welcome him to his new post. He has had a baptism of fire today and has come through reasonably well—so far. We wish him well and good health too. Does he agree that one of the major and most successful initiatives of recent years was Mrs May’s move in 2018 to introduce a sugar tax on fizzy drinks? Employers have been persuaded to reformulate their product. Will the Government now extend that taxation over a wider front on food and drinks? Can they start giving some thought to possibly following the substance of that approach on fat and see whether we can move towards taxing it?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I first thank the noble Lord very much for his warm welcome and his modest appraisal of my performance thus far. I am told that, coming from him, that is high praise indeed; he may disagree afterwards. As he knows, the Government are committed to this, but one thing we always have to look at in introducing new laws, bans or taxes is unintended consequences. Before I came to this role, I read some research which said that there were unintended consequences of some of the sugar taxes; for example, did they force people from poorer families or poorer communities to buy alternative, cheaper brands of the same drinks with the same sugar content, or did they just take the hit to their pockets and pay more? Were the outcomes any better? When looking at some of the programmes being put in place to tackle type 2 diabetes and the taxes proposed, it is important that we make sure it is all evidence-based and work out whether there are unintended consequences. If there are, we must find other ways to make sure we tackle obesity and some of the other issues that lead to type 2 diabetes.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
My Lords, the figures in the report are shocking, so I hope the Minister understands that with diabetes, as much as or more than other conditions, there is a need for close and consistent monitoring, not just for the patient’s sake but to avoid greater subsequent demand on the NHS. Is he therefore concerned by reports that in too many areas the essential regular reviews of patients’ conditions are simply not happening because of pressure on clinics or even a shortage of the equipment required to undertake the necessary tests?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I take a personal interest in diabetes; I have two very close family members with diabetes, one type 1 and one type 2. I noticed during the Covid lockdown the different approaches in meeting their clinicians—telephone calls rather than meeting in person, and reviewing their charts and sugar graphs over time, which is regularly done at these reviews. I agree completely that it is really important that we now try to address this backlog as much as possible. I know that the Secretary of State is committed to making sure that, with the uplift, we try to tackle as much of the backlog as possible, including for patients with type 2 and type 1 diabetes.
Baroness Jenkin of Kennington (Con)
My Lords, I associate myself with the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Brooke. I think everybody in the Chamber will appreciate the challenges that my noble friend has faced today with all these questions. My noble friend will probably know that 10% of NHS spending is currently on type 2 diabetes. That is £25,000 a minute, £1.5 million an hour, and rising. He will be aware that diabetes is reversible by diet. I am not sure whether he is also aware that, under the leadership of Jonathan Valabhji, the NHS has now endorsed a 12-week programme which has put many patients into remission rather than having to go on to medication.
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank my noble friend. I have done my homework and I have read a little about what has been happening up to now, especially about the NHS diabetes prevention programme, which identifies those most at high risk of developing diabetes and refers them on to behavioural change programmes and personalised education to reduce their risk of developing diabetes, including things such as bespoke exercise programmes and learning about healthy eating and lifestyle. The programme achieved full national rollout in 2018 and 2019, with services available to patients in every system in England.
As we know, tackling diabetes is multifactorial. Nevertheless, the NHS long-term plan sets out plans for increased action on diabetes and related issues. I shall mention just a few, including the healthy weight strategy launched in July 2020 to help adults and children maintain a healthy weight, and the restrictions on the promotion and advertising of foods high in fat, sugar and salt, as was mentioned earlier. It is really important with programmes such as this that we look at these studies on a longitudinal basis and look at the evidence. Some of these programmes will work, and some will not. That is just the way the world is. We have to make sure that we tackle unintended consequences first of all, and that any future policy is very heavily based on evidence rather than a wish. That will be the most effective way of tackling diabetes.
Baroness Merron (Lab)
My Lords, the rise in diabetes means that millions of people are at risk of devastating complications, including heart attacks. In 2009, to improve heart health, checks were introduced for the over-40s. However, by 2019, only half of those invited actually received those checks, and the checks were paused during the pandemic. Does the Minister agree that it is vital that these preventive checks are relaunched, and will he commit to putting in place a plan to ensure that people are able and willing to attend them?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I do not think anyone will disagree on the importance of making sure that these checks are reinitiated, or on what is being put in place to make sure either that patients are able to continue with or that new patients can start some of these programmes. Also, as noble Lords can imagine, there has been better use of technology in all fields during the Covid lockdown. For example, the NHS used Facebook to reach millions of men aged 40 or over who were at risk of developing type 2 diabetes. We also know that, in some cases, there are online consultations between patients and medical experts. Of course, with better tools, such as remote monitoring and flash blood readers, it is important that information can reach clinicians and be reviewed remotely. But there is no substitute for face-to-face meetings, and we hope very much that many of these can be resumed as soon as possible.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, given the clear links between obesity and type 2 diabetes, does the Minister agree that more can be done to tackle obesity among children and young people? May I commend to him some of the practices being followed in Amsterdam, where this has really been tackled in a holistic manner? Could we not do likewise?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I hope the noble Lord will forgive me, but I am not yet aware of the practices in Amsterdam. I would very much like to look into those and learn more. We can learn. It is really important that we learn from best practice around the world, and I would very much welcome it if he could write to me with some details.
Baroness McDonagh (Lab)
There are not many questions left for the Minister now—it will soon be over. Can I ask again the question that some of my noble friends have asked, as I have not specifically understood the answer? What impact assessment have the Government done to understand the implications of the reduction of face-to-face GP and nurse appointments and the reduction in eye appointments, footcare appointments and nutrition appointments for the diagnosis and management of diabetes? We know that this is a progressive illness, and failure to act makes people much sicker and makes it very hard for the NHS to reverse the problems that diabetes causes. What assessment has been made of this impact?
Lord Kamall (Con)
I thank the noble Baroness. I do not have the detailed assessments of that but I commit to writing to her with more details.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, that concludes Oral Questions for today.