West Midlands Combined Authority (Functions and Amendment) Order 2017

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 6 March be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the draft order which we are considering today, if approved and made, will bring to life the devolution deal which the Government agreed with the West Midlands on 17 November 2015.

The Government have already made significant progress in delivering their manifesto commitment to devolve far-reaching powers and budgets to large cities in England which choose to have directly elected mayors. This House has now debated and approved a number of orders establishing combined authority mayors and devolving powers, including Greater Manchester, the West of England, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough and, more recently, the Tees Valley and the Liverpool City Region, for which the noble Lord, Lord Young, stood in my place.

I am very grateful to the House for the attention it has given to these matters. We are now nearing the end of the first stage of this devolution process, with one final order after those today which confers powers on those combined authorities with May elections to be considered—that is, Greater Manchester, which was at the forefront of the devolution process. We also have the draft Combined Authorities (Finance) Order, which we will turn to following this debate.

The order we are considering today will confer important new powers on to the West Midlands mayor and the combined authority as set out in the devolution deal, particularly on transport, housing and regeneration, air quality, smoke-free premises, places and vehicles, anti-social behaviour, and culture. The overall result is to create for the West Midlands arrangements which will materially contribute to the promotion of economic growth across the area, improve productivity, and facilitate investment and the development of the area’s infrastructure. Through this deal, the West Midlands combined authority will receive: first, a devolved transport budget to help provide a more modern, better-connected network, allowing the West Midlands to choose how to spend the money across the area; secondly, new housing and regeneration powers to provide a strategic local approach to tackling these issues in the West Midlands; and thirdly, control over an investment fund of £36.5 million a year for 30 years to boost growth and prosperity in the area.

The implementation of the devolution deal agreed between local leaders and the Government has already seen two orders made, having been approved by this House and the other place, in relation to the West Midlands. First, the West Midlands Combined Authority Order established the combined authority on 17 June 2016, with functions in relation to economic development, regeneration and transport. Secondly, the West Midlands Combined Authority (Election of Mayor) Order created the position of mayor for the West Midlands, with the first election to be held on 4 May for an initial three-year term. Second elections will be held on 7 May 2020, with elections subsequently taking place every four years.

Today’s draft order is to be made under the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009, as amended by the Cities and Local Government Devolution Act 2016. As required by the 2016 Act, along with this order we have laid a report which provides details about the public authority functions we are devolving to the combined authority. The statutory origin of this order is in the governance review and scheme prepared by the combined authority, together with the seven constituent councils of Birmingham, Coventry, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Walsall and Wolverhampton, in accordance with the requirements of the 2009 Act.

The scheme sets out proposals for powers to be conferred on the combined authority, some to be exercised by the mayor, for funding and constitutional provisions to support the powers and functions conferred, and for the addition of a further five non-constituent members to the combined authority: North Warwickshire, Rugby, Shropshire, Stratford-on-Avon and Warwickshire. As provided for by the 2009 Act, the combined authority and the councils consulted on the proposals in their scheme. This was a public consultation which was entirely undertaken by the authorities concerned. They decided the approach, which was a matter for them.

I know noble Lords are interested in the consultation so will provide some further details. The local consultation undertaken by the combined authority ran for seven weeks from 4 June to 21 August 2016. In that time, 1,328 responses were received. Of these, 777—60%—agreed that the mayoral combined authority will promote more efficient and effective governance in the West Midlands. With regards to some of the specific functions covered in the deal and conferred by this order, 79% agreed with the transport proposals, 71% with the air quality proposals and 69% with the housing proposals. On all the questions asked, more people supported than opposed the proposals.

Following that consultation, as statute requires, the combined authority provided the Secretary of State with a summary of the responses to the consultation in September. Before laying this draft order before Parliament, the Secretary of State considered the statutory requirements in the 2009 Act. He is satisfied that these requirements are met. In short, he considers that conferring the functions on the combined authority would be likely to lead to an improvement in the exercise of the statutory functions across the area of the West Midlands combined authority. He has also had regard to the impact on local government and communities. Further, as required by statute, the seven constituent councils and the combined authority have consented to the making of this order.

The detail of the draft order reflects the commitment in the deal that the mayor should take on responsibility for a devolved and consolidated transport budget and a key route network of local authority roads. This key route network of combined authority roads is identified in Schedule 1 to the draft order. It is clear that a lot of consideration and detail have gone into this network, and I congratulate the local area on the work that it has done in identifying this strategic network. The order provides that the mayor, with the assistance of the combined authority, will exercise the following powers over this network: powers to enter into agreements with highway authorities, Ministers and Highways England in relation to the maintenance of roads; powers to promote road safety and regulate traffic; powers to operate a permit scheme to control the carrying out of works on the combined authority roads; and powers to collect contributions from utility companies for diversionary works needed as a result of highways works carried out on the key route network.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate. I shall try to pick up the points made. I thank noble Lords for the generally positive way in which they want to take things forward, although there are some understandable concerns. I shall try to address the points in the order in which they were made.

Turning first to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, I thank him very much for his comments on progress, on checks and balances and on the consultation response. As the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, has just said, the response was much more positive than has been the generality and was perhaps the most positive of all such consultations. Positive responses outweighed negative ones on every single question asked in the consultation, in most cases by a significant margin.

In that regard, I happily concur with the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, about the intelligence of people in the West Midlands. In relation to the wider and very fair point that he made about an intelligible guide on how this will operate, in the department we are going to publish a plain English guide. I welcome that, because sometimes the language about how mayors and combined authorities will work is obscure and Byzantine. I hope that that guide will be helpful.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, rightly said that compulsory purchase powers are exercisable by the mayor. I can confirm, as he has raised the issue, that planning permission stays, as before, with the constituent councils. There is no change on that point.

I take the noble Lord’s point about the independent remuneration panels existing in isolation. Clearly, each authority is bespoke and they are different one from another, so one would expect the remuneration packages to be somewhat different. I shall take away the idea of having some way of cross-referencing the independent remuneration panels, so that we can both share experience and perhaps seek to keep costs down. That seems a sensible approach.

On the point that the noble Lord raised about the political adviser, within the mayoral office there is the capacity for a political adviser. That is paid for out of the mayoral budget, and we anticipate that the cost will be proportionate to that budget.

On my noble friend Lord Hodgson’s point about the scrutiny committee—it may have been the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, who made this point—there must be political balance on the scrutiny committee. With regard to the combined authority, there is no statutory requirement, just as in any local authority election. The balance is the balance as represented in the elections and the process that follows from that. However, there is a legal requirement that carries across to scrutiny committees of combined authorities in the same way as for other authorities.

On my noble friend Lord Hodgson’s point about the extent of the authority, I think that it is important to distinguish the combined authority, with its seven constituent members, from the larger area that he cited as stretching from Nuneaton to just outside Montgomery and from north to south. That larger area includes non-constituent authorities, which do not have rights to vote and do not participate in the mayoral election. They are part of the broader engagement because of the strategic interest that often arises in relation to transport, housing and so on. They are not tacked on in any casual sense; they are important for strategic concerns.

The noble Lord, Lord Snape, echoed the point about remuneration, which I have already addressed. He talked about how the Government would work with mayors. I share his view that it is important that we work well with mayors. The experience of the Government working with the Mayor of London has been positive—we have engaged with Sadiq Khan on a regular basis on issues such as housing and last week’s atrocity—and it has been a positive exercise.

I pay tribute to the work that my noble friend Lord Heseltine has done in my department. It was considerable. Of course, he was not elected in the same way as a mayor, as the noble Lord knew when he was making the point. However, I place on record the debt that we all owe to the work of my noble friend Lord Heseltine.

Combined Authorities (Finance) Order 2017

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

That the draft Order laid before the House on 13 March be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the order puts in place the process that elected mayors and their combined authorities will follow for setting the mayoral budget and issuing precepts. For the six mayoral combined authorities with elections this May, these processes will apply in relation to 2018-19 and each subsequent year. This is applicable to all mayoral combined authorities, except for the West of England. In this case, reflecting local choice, there will be no mayoral precept, an outcome secured by provisions in the order establishing that combined authority. In addition, the order makes certain transitional finance provisions for Greater Manchester, reflecting that, from 8 May 2017, its mayor will have police and crime commissioner responsibilities, and be responsible for the Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service.

This order establishes the final element in the funding framework for mayoral combined authorities. Under this framework, the activities of combined authorities and their mayors will be funded as follows. First, combined authorities and their mayors, as provided for in the devolution deals, will receive new, additional financial resources from government. In particular, noble Lords will recall that the Government are providing £30 million per year for 30 years of investment funding, known as “gain share”, to areas such as Greater Manchester, the West of England and the Liverpool City Region. In the case of the West Midlands, which we have considered in the previous debate ahead of the Statement, this investment funding is £36.5 million per year for 30 years. In the case of Cambridgeshire and Peterborough it is £20 million per year for 30 years and in the Tees Valley, reflecting the size of the area, it is £15 million per year for 30 years. Central government resources also include budgets for transport, and the mayors will have the powers to allocate this funding to the constituent councils, as we saw in the order that we previously considered today for the West Midlands.

Secondly, the primary legislation—the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009—together with the orders we have made for individual combined authorities, provides that the constituent councils can make contributions to combined authorities and mayors. Importantly the orders also provide that, in the case of mayoral expenses, the mayor must agree contributions with the constituent councils in advance of incurring expenditure.

Thirdly, combined authorities can impose a levy on their constituent councils for transport costs. It is open to us also to make further secondary legislation to extend these levy powers for other functions of the combined authority. The constituent councils then build these levies into their own budgets.

Finally, mayoral functions—to the extent they are not met by other means—are to be met by a precept. This precept is determined each year through the mayoral budget process and is formally issued by the combined authority to the billing authorities in its area. The billing authorities then build this precept into their council taxes and the precept will be visible on council tax bills. As I said earlier, the mayor for the West of England does not set a precept. In this area, the costs of the mayor will be funded through contributions from the constituent councils.

If approved by Parliament, today’s order is to be made under the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009—as amended by the Cities and Local Government Act 2016—and makes detailed provision about budgeting and precepting. If approved by Parliament, the order will come into effect the day after it is made. The specific provisions, which are designed to ensure an effective process including robust arrangements for scrutiny and challenge of the mayors’ proposals, are as follows. First, there is a requirement for combined authority mayors to submit by 1 February of a given year a draft budget to their combined authority for consideration. Secondly, the combined authority recommends any amendments to the draft budget before 8 February, and the mayor considers them and makes a further proposal if he should choose to do so. Thirdly, the constituent members of the combined authority may impose amendments to the mayor’s draft budget, if supported by a two-thirds majority—except in the case of the Tees Valley, where that majority is three-fifths. In the absence of this majority, the mayor’s proposals must be accepted by the combined authority.

Fourthly, the combined authority must set a mayoral budget if the mayor does not submit a draft for consideration by 1 February. Fifthly, the mayor is to fund mayoral functions through a precept, which will be subject to referendum principles that limit precept increases in the absence of a council tax referendum. Sixthly, the standard local government finance regime applies so that precepts must be issued by 1 March. Seventhly and lastly, to aid transparency the mayor is required to maintain a fund relating to the receipts and expenses of the mayor’s functions, excluding police and crime commissioner functions, for which Manchester city combined authority is responsible and for which there is a separate police fund.

The order also contains detailed provisions about transitional measures. The duty to issue a precept is disapplied in relation to the year in which the first mayor for the combined authority is elected. This is because for this year the mayor will not be in office in time for the precept to be set. Mayoral expenses in this first year will therefore be met by contributions from the constituent councils.

The final transitional provisions relate to Greater Manchester, where the mayor will be responsible for police and crime functions and the fire and rescue services. These provide that the precepts for 2017-18, which have been issued by the Greater Manchester police and crime commissioner and the fire and rescue service, will from 8 May this year fund the mayor’s activities in respect of policing and fire and rescue functions.

In conclusion, the order will support the new combined authority mayors to fund their functions through a precept and a budget-setting process that allows for effective challenge and robust and transparent scrutiny by the combined authority. The draft order will complement the orders already approved by this House to implement the devolution deals agreed between local areas and the Government, paving the way for a more balanced and successful economy and improving housing supply across the country. I therefore commend the order to the House.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I shall make two brief points. First, the powers and the checks and balances proposed in the order seem appropriate, but I note the final paragraph of the Explanatory Memorandum concerning monitoring and review, which says:

“Mayoral combined authorities will be required … to put in place an extensive programme of evaluation”.


I suggest to the Minister, not least because there are two different methods for creating the mayoral budget now—for most the precept, and for the West of England by agreement of the constituent councils—that evaluating how that works could well be something for independent review as opposed to being done by the combined authorities. I hope the Minister will pay some regard to that.

The other issue is that I did not quite understand what the Minister said about audit and, in particular, scrutiny. There is a very tight timetable between the beginning of February and the beginning of March. There is to be a budget proposed by the mayor, then to be agreed by the combined authority. The combined authority is of course scrutinising that mayoral budget, except that the combined authority itself is subject to scrutiny. My question is: at what point will the scrutiny arrangements that have already been approved by another order apply? Will there be a role for the scrutiny panel before 1 March, or will the scrutiny panel put forward its views at a date between 1 March and the date at which the constituent councils are setting their budgets, which need to come very early in March? There is a process issue about the role of scrutiny, because I think the Minister said that the combined authority has a scrutiny power over the mayoral budget, but the combined authority is actually itself subject to a formal statutory scrutiny arrangement.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my declaration of interests and put on record that I am a councillor in the London Borough of Lewisham and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I have no objections to the order before us and I am very happy to agree it. There does, however, need to be a wider debate at another time about where we are going with local government in England outside London. I will leave that for another day.

The section of the order with respect to mayors’ budgets is particularly welcome. I was pleased that the Minister made reference to the fact that there is a veto provision. All mayors will be mindful of that but, equally, it is set at the high bar of a two-thirds majority, or, in the case of Tees Valley Combined Authority, of a three-fifths majority. That is an important provision that mayors should be aware of.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, made important points regarding auditing and scrutiny. I welcome the Minister’s response to that. I assume I am correct that if local electors have objections to the council they can make these as normal, but could the Minister confirm that as well as he can in writing?

For the record, in the previous debate when asking about mayors and their function the point I made was about selling land below market value, not at market value. Will the Minister also respond to that point in writing?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy, for their contributions on the issue of local government finance. If I may first pick up the point from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, in relation to the previous debate, I will certainly take another look at that. As I indicated, I think the function will be balanced between the mayor and the combined authority. But there will of course be an overriding obligation to get best value and, if land is being sold below market value, I would anticipate that there was a danger of falling foul of that. I will cover that issue in a letter to the Minister—I mean the noble Lord; days of yore in the National Assembly for Wales are kicking in, so I apologise.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, once again for the generous welcome he has given to this piece of secondary legislation as well as for his attention to the different interests of the mayor and the combined authority and to the important checks and balances. He asked specifically about the budget process and about scrutiny. As I think he will know, the overview and scrutiny committees can require the mayor to appear before them at any time, including in the first year of the mayor’s term, before this more detailed process kicks in. In the first year, of course, it is too late for the precepting procedure, which applies later on. The budget scrutiny requirement refers to the scrutiny of the mayor’s budget by the combined authorities, though there is a specific requirement under the order, as the noble Lord appreciates, for a mayoral fund to be set up. I will perhaps enlarge on that in a letter because it is a fairly technical area.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, again for his pragmatic approach and for welcoming this particular measure. He raised similar points about scrutiny in addition to the point he raised on the last order. I will of course pick those up in a detailed letter.

As I said, this issue is central to the system of mayors, which I think we all support in principle. I accept that we have different concerns but it is obviously essential that going forward we have a system for how money is to be organised. I also accept that we have bespoke deals. For example, the West of England Combined Authority did not want precepting, while Tees Valley Combined Authority wanted decisions to be made with a 60% rather than a 66% majority because it has five constituent councils—I think that is the reason for that; they would each have 20% of the vote. Accepting that there are going to be slight differences, the general approach to scrutiny and budgets is set out in this order, which I think is non-controversial. As I said, any points that have been raised and that have not been covered in my response will be picked up in a letter, in addition to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, in relation to the previous debate. I commend the order to the House.

Motion agreed.

Housing: Letting and Managing Agents

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will make membership of a client money protection scheme mandatory for letting and managing agents.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill, for their time and commitment to the client money protection review. I am pleased to announce that the Government intend to make client money protection mandatory in line with the recommendation of the review chaired by the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer of Childs Hill. This will ensure that every agent is offering the same level of protection, giving tenants and landlords the financial protection that they deserve. The Government will consult on how mandatory client money protection should be implemented and enforced.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

Well, that has taken the wind out of my sails. Will the Minister accept my thanks? The House will recall that we put into the Housing and Planning Act the reserve power to do this but at that point the Government were not quite convinced. However, as the Minister said, along with the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, we did the report, and the recommendation was published only yesterday. Today’s news is really good for tenants and landlords. It means that if any letting agent goes bust or makes off, the client’s money is safe. I hope the Minister will accept my thanks.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I certainly will. That was a typically gracious response from the noble Baroness. It was a very well-reasoned report. Many people had been called to give evidence, so it was very strongly evidence-based. As I say, we will be consulting on implementation and enforcement. I am sure that we can talk about it in the meantime.

[Lord Palmer of Childs Hill (LD)]

My Lords, I have had a little more time to get some wind in my sails. I thank everybody who took part in this review: my co-chair, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, the ministry and the civil servants, who were incredibly helpful. However, the review raises ongoing questions for the Government to tackle. For instance, enforcement is a key to success. Will the Minister tell us what he intends to do about the recommendation in the report that the Government consider,

“authorising a prime authority for enforcement, recognising CMP schemes and providing up to date information”?

Without that, the mandatory scheme will not have teeth.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, once again I thank the noble Lord for the part he has played in this. He asked specifically about one aspect of the consultation. As I say, we will be consulting on enforcement and implementation. He rightly draws attention to the fact that on occasion there has been a prime authority in this sort of area supervising the enforcement—Powys was an example used in the review, although in this instance, because it is England only, it cannot be Powys. A strong case has been made out, but of course we will be consulting on it.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, is it not essential in producing this final scheme that it should be as fair and as protected as the deposit protection schemes which exist for tenants’ deposits at present? In particular, there needs to be some kind of recognition that estate agents have to receive money in order to get the security checks, references and other things they need. They have to be carefully considered as well. It has to be fair to all parties.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it certainly does need to be fair to all parties. The evidence from the consultation was that about 85%, if I am not mistaken, backed the need for enforcement in this area, so that obviously was a key factor. I agree with my noble friend that the consultation will need to ensure that it is fair and equitable across a wide variety of people.

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as the chair of the council of the Property Ombudsman, which deals with complaints about managing and letting agents. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, on her persistence in pursuing this matter and congratulate the Government on yielding to that persistence. Would the Minister agree that the value of this is not just about protecting landlords if agents go off with the money but about weeding out the more dubious and dodgy managing and letting agents because they will not be able to get the insurance that will now be mandatory?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. First, yielding to persuasive argument always seems to be the best and most sensible course to pursue, but I also agree with him about the importance of taking account of all those views and ensuring in the consultation that we act equitably and fairly across the piece.

Disabled Access: Public Premises

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, owners and occupiers of public premises have a duty under the Equality Act 2010 to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled people are not put at a substantial disadvantage. This may include changes to improve accessibility to their building. New buildings must meet Building Regulations requirements on access. The Government are conducting research into the effectiveness of the statutory guidance which supports those Building Regulations requirements.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

Does the Minister agree that we have lots of legislation and lots of ventures, but reasonable adjustments are not being made on the ground and there is a lack of will to enforce the law? Commons committees have recently heard very sad evidence about failures at, for example, sports grounds, which have not been improved for 20 years. There have also been failures when it comes to people being able to get into pubs and restaurants, no matter how often the law is pointed out and promises are made. Does the Minister not agree that it is time to bring the Building Regulations up to date and that access should be built in from the start, not just in new buildings but whenever buildings are refurbished or repaired, and that local authorities should be allowed to get on with enforcing this through licensing?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, where I do agree with the noble Baroness is in relation to the importance of ensuring that new buildings are readily accessible and that appropriate changes are made to buildings, which of course is what the law provides for. I do not share her pessimism in relation to enforcement, on which there have been many recent cases. An example is Hosegood v Khalid, concerning a restaurant that did not have an appropriate ramp. Perhaps we need to give these cases a higher profile, but the law that exists is being enforced.

[Baroness Campbell of Surbiton (CB)]

My Lords, neither the industrial strategy nor the national infrastructure plan contain any reference to disability access. Will the Minister tell us why the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has not addressed this public sector equality duty, or is this just another example of cost-cutting, which I referred to in my article in today’s Guardian?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I regret that I have not read the article as yet but I will certainly do so. I have a copy of the Guardian on my desk but, because of today’s Question, I have not yet had an opportunity to read it. In relation to the very important points that the noble Baroness makes—I commend her relentless campaigning role in these areas—there is a duty on the public sector to set an example; it is not expressed in those words, but it is certainly happening on a daily basis. As a country, we do very well compared with other countries. However, I appreciate that it is not sufficient and that we need to do more both on a private basis, by encouraging retailer outlets and business to step up to the plate, and through government. I readily accept that. I will take the point that she makes to BEIS—I am not from BEIS—and ensure that she gets a response.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend accept that I did a quick internet search of the Government Equalities Office yesterday and found three press releases on disabled issues and 10 on transgender and sexual issues? Clearly, transgender people face discrimination, but I point out to my noble friend that 800,000 wheelchair users cannot get into thousands of public buildings—shops, pubs and clubs—including the main post office on Victoria Street. We cannot get into the building, let alone have the luxury of deciding which toilet to use if we could get in there. Will he therefore look at an urgent amendment to the Equality Act 2010? It has been disastrous for disabled people and has put us at the bottom of the heap—I declare a personal bias. Will he look at making a simple amendment so that we can get into buildings over a step which is less than six inches high? It is a simple thing and it should be done.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, once again, I know that my noble friend has campaigned in this area, and particularly on that issue, with great force and eloquence. On the point about ramps and steps in post offices, there has been a recent case in relation to access to counters, which I think the post office has settled out of court. Therefore, there are cases where practice is changing. I accept that, as my noble friend said, there is certainly more to be done. The Government Equalities Office is looking at the operation of the law and will have heard what my noble friend says, but he said it with great force and it is a point well made.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, the noble Lord who asked the previous question did not include churches—and with good reason because there have been herculean efforts across the estate involving quite difficult church buildings to make them accessible to people with limited ability to get up steps and so forth. Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the local efforts, normally paid for locally, which have transformed the access to historic churches?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the right reverend Prelate for that contribution. Certainly, in my experience of visiting churches and cathedrals in England, that is very much the case. I am visiting cathedrals in Carlisle, Newcastle and Durham over the next two days, so I will be looking to see that they, too, are following the practice that has been pretty near universal in my experience over the past nine months of visiting them.

[Baroness Thomas of Winchester (LD)]

My Lords, what we really need is for the Government to develop a proper strategy for making public places more accessible both for the sake of the rapidly ageing population and for younger disabled people such as MDUK’s Trailblazers who regularly report on inaccessible leisure facilities. Perhaps the Government could consider more carrots and a few more sticks to get those authorities and others to take appropriate action.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness. Once again, she has campaigned on these issues. I know that the provision in the Equality Act does not simply apply to public sector buildings but to public buildings—buildings that are accessible to the public or a section of the public. It does not only apply to museums, art galleries and concert halls but to shops, retail outlets, pubs and so forth. Just last month, my honourable friend in the other place, Penny Mordaunt, set up a group, as the noble Baroness will know, of 11 sector champions to look at this and who will be challenging inequality. That will work alongside the provision that we have in the Equality Act. Of course, the Government will be looking at how that interface is working.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that a significant number of Premier League football clubs will fail to honour the commitment that they gave in 2015 to make all their stadia disabled accessible by August 2017? Will he remind them that Section 20 of the 2010 Act is not an option but is mandatory? Will the Government empower the Sports Grounds Safety Authority to enforce the law and make sure that accessible stadia guidelines are observed?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right and I know that he has raised this issue many times before. Some are of course stepping up to the plate and some are not. Some are partly there. I mention my own club, Leicester City, which I hope will do a bit more but is already part of the way there. I take the point seriously. I will write to him on his second point about enforcement because I am not sure where we are on that, but I agree that we need to keep their feet to the fire to make sure that they are performing.

Neighbourhood Planning Bill

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

1: After Clause 6, insert the following new Clause—
“Engagement by examiners with qualifying bodies etc
In Schedule 4B to the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (process for making neighbourhood development orders), in paragraph 11 (regulations about independent examinations) after sub-paragraph (2) insert—“(3) The regulations may in particular impose duties on an examiner which are to be complied with by the examiner in considering the draft order under paragraph 8 and which require the examiner—(a) to provide prescribed information to each person within sub-paragraph (4);(b) to publish a draft report containing the recommendations which the examiner is minded to make in the examiner’s report under paragraph 10;(c) to invite each person within sub-paragraph (4) or representatives of such a person to one or more meetings at a prescribed stage or prescribed stages of the examination process;(d) to hold a meeting following the issuing of such invitations if such a person requests the examiner to do so.(4) Those persons are—(a) the qualifying body,(b) the local planning authority, and(c) such other persons as may be prescribed.(5) Where the regulations make provision by virtue of sub- paragraph (3)(c) or (d), they may make further provision about—(a) the procedure for a meeting;(b) the matters to be discussed at a meeting.””

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, before I speak to these important government amendments, I wanted to take the opportunity to express my thanks once again to noble Lords for their careful and thorough scrutiny of the Neighbourhood Planning Bill. The Government have listened carefully to the issues that have been raised throughout these debates and have brought forward amendments to address key issues.

The Bill that we now have before us is, I believe, a better Bill as a result of the scrutiny of this House and the wealth of experience that noble Lords have been kind enough to share. I thank noble Lords for their diligent and constructive approach at each stage. I am aware that a vast number of noble Lords has contributed to the debate during the Bill’s passage, but I particularly thank noble Lords on the Benches opposite, and certainly the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, Lord Beecham and Lord Shipley.

I thank my ministerial team in the department, my right honourable friend Sajid Javid, and particularly my honourable friend Gavin Barwell for their help and support. Furthermore, I thank my noble friend, co-pilot and Whip, Lord Young of Cookham, who adeptly led on the compulsory purchase elements of the Bill. Finally, I thank my officials, led by Simon Gallagher, Susan Lovelock, Darren McCreery and Robyn Skerratt, and the wider team, including my private office, and special thanks too to Grace Smith and Alanna Reid.

I now turn to the government amendments in this group. We had important discussions in Grand Committee and on Report about neighbourhood planning, and in particular the process for the examination of neighbourhood plans. My noble friend Lady Cumberlege led this discussion, and I am personally grateful for the way she did it. I should note that she was not the only participant making those arguments, and I thank my noble friends Lord Caithness and Lord Mawson and the noble Lords, Lord Kennedy, Lord Shipley and Lord Stunell, for their contributions. But I particularly thank my noble friend Lady Cumberlege for her continued generosity with her time, and for her commitment to working with my department constructively to ensure that the practice of neighbourhood planning continues to be in line with our collective aspiration to empower communities to develop neighbourhood plans. I am very conscious of the great pressure she has been under and the grace and generosity that has characterised her contribution to these important issues.

I want to set the amendment in the context of a number of important steps that the Government are taking to meet the concerns raised. I do so because the issues are too broad to be addressed through legislation alone. Noble Lords will recall that much of what needs to be done to address this important issue does not require legislative intervention.

First, we will amend planning guidance once we have taken into account the responses to the Housing White Paper consultation, to which I will return, to clarify our expectations of local planning authority engagement with neighbourhood planning groups before and during the examination process. Secondly, amendments to the Bill tabled in Grand Committee enable the Secretary of State, for example, to require authorities to set out in their statements of community involvement how they will provide advice or assistance to neighbourhood planning groups prior to examination. Thirdly, my noble friend Lady Cumberlege has raised the important role that local planning authorities play in supporting neighbourhood planning in their communities, so it is important that they have the necessary resources. This month, we have written to local planning authorities outlining the arrangements for our continued funding to them to support neighbourhood planning next year under the new burdens doctrine.

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[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I join the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, in paying tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, for her very thoughtful and constructive—and somewhat exhaustive —approach to the deliberations on the Bill. It has been a pleasure to work with both the Ministers, but particularly, if I may say so, with the noble Lord, Lord Bourne. I make that point having discovered recently that he, like me, is a great fan of Leicester City; in my case, it is my second team. I rather hope we might be playing in the same league next season and I hope that will be the Premiership. In that event, perhaps the noble Lord would care to accompany me to a match, when naturally Newcastle will expect to beat my other team.

The substantive issue this afternoon is not the fate of either of those teams but the drawing to conclusion of the Bill. It has been a pleasure to work in such a constructive way with both Ministers, but principally, on the major part of the Bill, with the noble Lord, Lord Bourne. He has listened carefully and been very constructive in his approach. Indeed, the whole experience has been a vast improvement on the dreadful time we had with the Housing and Planning Act last year. That is no reflection at all on the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, who struggled mightily to retain her sanity and promote ours during the course of that legislation.

I have one or two questions about Amendment 1. Proposed new sub-paragraph (3)(d) says that a meeting should be held following the issuing of invitations, which are outlined in proposed new sub-paragraph (3)(c). Is that a meeting with an individual, or is it envisaged as a public meeting in which other interested parties would be involved? There might be a number of people who make submissions; there might be only one or two. Would that meeting be just with those who make the contact, or will it be on a broader basis? The definition of “persons” is slightly mysterious. It talks about,

“the qualifying body … the local planning authority”—

that is obvious—

“and ... such other persons as may be prescribed”.

Can the Minister indicate what is envisaged by that rather muffled description?

Then there is the question of the regulations. Will the regulations themselves be subject to consultation? The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to consultation. Will the specific regulations in relation to this amendment be subject to consultation in the way that the Minister has described generally the consultation which will take place on other matters?

Having said that, and while I wait with anticipation to hear the Minister’s response, again I congratulate him and the noble Lord, Lord Young, on the way they have conducted this matter. I look forward to that degree of co-operation continuing over the secondary legislation that will follow. It is very important that the Bill should go forward into practice in a way that, frankly, we have not yet seen adequately with the Housing and Planning Act 2016. I hope that we can learn from that experience and carry the Bill forward in the constructive way that Members of all sides have sought to treat it.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate on these two amendments. First, I thank once again my noble friend Lady Cumberlege for the gracious way that she has approached this, and for her kind words in welcoming the amendment and the flow chart. I suspect that her kind words about the role of the officials in the flow chart will have its cost in terms of drinks and cakes; nevertheless, I thank her very much indeed for those kind comments. I can confirm to her and to other noble Lords that the regulations will be subject to the negative procedure which, given the weight of business we will have as a consequence of the EU withdrawal process, is welcome news.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, once again for his kind words and very much agree that this is a better Bill because of the scrutiny that has come from all parts of the House. I agree that there is support for the neighbourhood planning principle from all parts of the House and it is important that we see that to safe haven. Clearly, it is not just about the Bill. I very much agree with him on the plain English guide—I know that he made that point before very forcefully. We will certainly do what we can with the website and the flow chart. I would welcome participation and views from noble Lords as to how we can improve them. I will pass on the thanks that he gave to the RICS for the practitioners’ guide. I am sure we all hope that that will be in plain English, as it is extremely important.

I turn to a point raised by the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Beecham, and my noble friend Lady Cumberlege in relation to the timing of the regulations. Clearly, as the consultation ends on 2 May, I cannot anticipate how many responses we will have in relation to this matter. I hope that it will be quite a lot. We intend to move quickly and not to delay things, but we need to make sure that the system works well. I hope your Lordships will understand that we would want some time to take account of those views. In relation to the very fair point made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, about continuing the process of consultation and getting it right by discussing it with others, I would anticipate discussing the shape of what we are going to do with my noble friend and with the noble Lords, Lord Beecham, Lord Shipley and Lord Kennedy, and others, but that would not be to slow the process down. We have to get the balance right there, but I would be very happy to do that.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, for his generous invitation to St James’. An invitation from me would be to the King Power Stadium, if we are indeed in the same league next year. As he may know, I am in Newcastle on Friday of this week and when I said that I am visiting the two cathedrals, many people told me that there are actually three cathedrals—the third being St James’. I do not think I have time for it on this occasion, but I look forward very much to locking horns over football for once, rather than over politics. I am sure that would be a game we would both enjoy.

In relation to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, about who is included under new sub-paragraph (3)(d) in Amendment 1, we want to make sure that there is an open, fair and transparent procedure. In relation to meetings, therefore, I do not think we would want to stipulate that a group should be of a particular size. It would not be just individuals, but if somebody wanted to come along from the neighbourhood group with a fair number of people, we would be looking to that. We are not prescribing anything; it is important that it is an open and transparent process. In relation to other bodies that may be prescribed, I think that other amenity groups might have an interest in the area—I will write to the noble Lord if I am wrong on this—and it could conceivably be the National Trust, if it had property there. I anticipate it would be that sort of thing.

I have dealt with the noble Lord’s point in relation to the consultation on the regulations, which will, as I say, have the negative procedure. I thank again those noble Lords who have participated in the debate on these amendments.

Amendment 1 agreed.

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[Lord Mawson (CB)]

My Lords, I have just come out of a meeting this afternoon. I chair the regeneration and communities committee on the Olympic Park. I have been involved with the Olympic Park from the very beginning; I think this is year 18. We have been on a very long journey. Along with a colleague I wrote the document for Hazel Blears that eventually led to the setting up of the Olympic Park Legacy Company, which of course now is a corporation. So one has watched and been involved in all the detail of what is now happening in Stratford in east London, which is a very exciting cluster development. This afternoon we have seen a new school at Here East, businesses and housing all coming together.

There are one or two cautionary lessons. First, local authorities can be very good if you have the right leadership in place to drive them, but if you do not then very different things can go on. It is all about the people, not structures. I know from experience that local authorities, if they are not so good, can be warring factors and can play lots of politics around these things that do not deliver the best quality but sometimes undermine that.

Secondly, we have learned that it is important to have the right serious business partners on the board of the corporation who, together with public sector leaders and leaders in the social enterprise sector, buy into a narrative over a long period of time; and that getting the top, middle and bottom of these institutions to buy and act out that narrative is important as well.

Ultimately, it is all about people and relationships. Our experience suggests that giving local control is very important, but I suggest that it is not just about local authorities—it is about the relationships between people in business, the public sector and, particularly, the community sector. Sometimes local authorities can talk as though they represent and understand the local community, but I have found over the years that that might not actually be true. It is about the right relationships, the right people and the right experience around the table.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate on Amendment 2. I thank particularly the noble Lord, Lord Taylor of Goss Moor, for moving it, supported by the noble Lord, Lord Best. I thank them both and indeed other noble Lords for their time and commitment on this issue and for the opportunity to discuss this matter. We have discussed it both in Committee and on Report, and I have been heartened to hear the support for the measure from across the Chamber.

This amendment seeks to support the creation of locally led garden towns and villages by enabling the responsibility for any development corporation created under the New Towns Act 1981 to be transferred to a local authority or authorities, covering all or part of the area designated for the new town or village. On the point made by my noble friend Lord Porter, I think the definition is broad enough to include unitary authorities; that is certainly the intention. On a different point about combined authorities that was made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, of course we can create mayoral development corporations in relation to the new combined authorities—we did so with Teesside a couple of weeks ago—so that could well be part of the deal with the new authority. However, along with other noble Lords, I would want to think carefully in conjunction with the combined authorities as to whether they wanted to take that power on. I think I am right in saying, although I may be wrong, that the designated garden towns and villages do not come within the purview of what at the moment is projected as a combined authority, but it is a point well made. Therefore, I would like to go away to ponder this and give a fuller response to the noble Lord, if I may, copying it to noble Lords who participated in the debate and putting a copy in the Library.

The aim of the amendment is entirely consistent with those of the Bill. The Government certainly support it and I thank in particular the noble Lord, Lord Best, for his pre-emptive congratulations on the Government’s support. The amendment is very consistent with the approach of the Government, the department and the recently published White Paper in relation to the importance of localism.

I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, about the importance of ensuring that all local authorities have the right attitude to these things. We hope that is accomplished through elections but the broad principle of it being done locally must be right. That has been echoed throughout the contributions on this legislation as it has gone through the House: local is better. We know that a number of local authorities—for example, those in north Essex—are interested in taking advantage of the new opportunity that the amendment would provide to support a new generation of locally led garden towns and villages, the 21st-century heirs to Letchworth and Welwyn.

I also welcome the support of the Local Government Association and the kind words of my noble friend Lord Porter for the principle behind the amendment. I am very pleased that it commands wide support throughout the House. This is a simple principle; making it work in practice will require detailed modifications to the New Towns Act, which my department will develop. We will want to keep in close contact with the noble Lords, Lord Taylor and Lord Best, both of whom I thank very much for the impetus and enthusiasm they have given this and the expertise they bring to the table. I pause at this stage to pay tribute to their work as effective champions of this issue throughout discussions on the Bill.

In conclusion, I am very pleased to support the noble Lord’s amendment, which will help to fulfil an important White Paper commitment.

[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor]

My Lords, I shall respond very briefly. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best, for all his support and encouragement, not only on this Bill but previously. I should also thank my noble friend Lady Parminter, who was in the Chamber but has had to go, for moving an amendment for me on Report that enabled this matter to be brought forward.

We have had a promise from the Minister to come back on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham. I should make it clear that the intention is absolutely that more than one local authority can be involved. We need to explore the mechanism for that and hear what the Minister has to say, but the ability for more than one authority to come together is here. I therefore imagine that in practice nothing would stand in the way of the point that was raised.

On the point of the noble Lord, Lord Porter, about unitary authorities, the intention is that they should be covered. Indeed, having worked very hard to support the creation of a unitary authority in Cornwall, I would be horrified if I had managed in any way to get the drafting wrong on that point, but I believe it is covered.

I absolutely take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, and thank him for his support. In my comments, I talked about the fact that although the mechanism is here for local authorities to take a leadership role, the expectation is absolutely for a partnership approach. I thought quite hard about how one might look at the structures of a corporation. It is very important that this is not a 1950s or 1960s view, whereby a local authority chief executive is appointed and gets on with the job. The world has moved on since then. My view has always been that you need, as we see in Europe and in the States, a master developer and a master planner; you need expertise and business experience.

I chair a joint strategic board for the Carclaze garden village, which has been many years in gestation. The key thing has been to bring together the local authority, the private sector-led development body and the landowner in a partnership. That partnership has been incredibly successful. It took the development through the recession after 2008. The developer is Egyptian-owned, so the partnership took it through the storms of the Arab spring in terms of its financing. It is now in front of planning, and I think will be delivered. That has been possible only because we have built a really strong partnership between all parties, including the private sector, so there is a very deep experience of people creating fantastic places for business reasons, as well as the very important experience of the council representing people and understanding the processes of local government. There has been a great partnership with the HCA as well.

I could not agree more with the noble Lord’s comments. That is why, although this provision uses the powers of the New Towns Act, it is very much in a 21st century setting—and that is not just about localism; it is about partnership between all the stakeholders. I also make the point that it is about holding people to promises, because too often people see wonderful designs at the stage when something is proposed, but the moment when it is allocated or an outline is commissioned, it is traded and traded and, somehow, it gets watered down and not delivered. That experience is important for business, too.

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[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, I support the amendment and I hope the Government will react sympathetically to the objectives that noble Lords outlined. We certainly are at one with them. I speak from my experience in Newcastle. It is important that the Government should see the logic of the case that is made in the amendment, and I hope they will treat it accordingly.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords who have participated in the debate on Amendment 3 in relation to office-to-residential conversion. I particularly thank my noble friend Lord True and the noble Lord, Lord Tope, for bringing before us again the issue of permitted development rights for change of use. This enables me to set out in more detail the proposal that I put before noble Lords on Report in a very sketchy form, and to which I promised to return. At the time, I spoke about the potential benefit of allowing greater flexibility over whether the permitted development right for the change of use from office to residential should apply to those areas that are delivering the homes that their communities need. I am sure noble Lords will agree that it is in everybody’s interest to ensure that we do not put future housing delivery at risk. In fairness, that point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Tope.

The housing White Paper sets out compelling evidence of why it is crucial that we fix our broken housing market—one of the greatest barriers to progress in Britain today. Noble Lords will know that in the year to March 2016, over 12,800 homes came from the change of use from offices to residential alone. However, as I said on Report, I recognise that while the national picture is positive in terms of the contribution of permitted development rights to housing delivery, in some places there have been concerns about the local impact.

We can all agree that some authorities are high performers in delivering new housing. I am therefore pleased to confirm our future approach to Article 4 directions to remove the permitted development right for the change of use from office to residential where the local planning authority is delivering 100% or more of its housing requirement. As we have set out in our recent housing White Paper, we will introduce a new housing delivery test which will measure an area’s local housing delivery against its housing requirement. It is proposed that the housing delivery test will be measured as an average over a three-year rolling period and data will be published alongside the net additions statistics in November each year. We propose that housing delivery will be assessed against an up-to-date local plan, London Plan or statutory spatial development strategy—or in their absence, published household projections—and that the first housing delivery data will be published in November this year. This will indicate to local authorities whether this additional Article 4 flexibility would apply to directions they brought forward after this date.

We are committing today that, following the publication of the housing delivery data, where an authority is meeting 100% of its housing delivery requirement and can continue to do so after removal of the right, and where it is able to demonstrate that it is necessary to remove the right to protect the amenity and well-being of a particular area—that might address the point that the noble Lord, Lord Tope, raised; there is still that continuing obligation although it may conceivably be a larger area than at present, but there is not the necessity to satisfy that test—the Secretary of State will not seek to limit a direction applying to that area.

When considering whether to bring forward an Article 4 direction regarding office-to-residential conversion, the local planning authority must demonstrate that it can continue to meet its housing requirement when the right is removed. This provides an important safeguard to ensure that local areas will continue to deliver the homes that communities need. For instance, we know that in the year to March 2016, the homes delivered under the right made a significant contribution to housing delivery in some areas.

Importantly, the Article 4 direction must continue to meet the test set out in the National Planning Policy Framework. As I say, the local planning authority must still provide robust evidence to demonstrate that removing the permitted development right is necessary to protect the amenity and well-being of the area where the right is to be removed. This could include impact from the loss of office space. I hope that is helpful to the noble Lord and to other noble Lords who have participated in the debate on the Bill. Where these tests are met, we would look more generously at the area across which the direction would apply and not seek to limit the direction. Of course, housing delivery changes over time. Therefore, local planning authorities should review their housing delivery annually and, if it falls below 100% in subsequent years, we would expect them to review the direction and cancel or modify it as necessary. The local authority may then be able to bring forward a further direction at a later date on the back of improved delivery where it had dipped below the housing delivery test.

This approach reflects the intent of the noble Lords’ amendment. It allows areas that are meeting their housing requirements local flexibility in having a greater say over where the right will apply as long as they can demonstrate that removal of the right is necessary and that they will continue to meet their housing need. It enables local planning authorities to determine such cases in accordance with their local plan, any neighbourhood plan and other material considerations. At the same time, it provides safeguards should housing delivery decline. Moreover, it does so within the existing Article 4 processes, with which local planning authorities are familiar.

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Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

4: Clause 42, page 38, line 26, leave out “27(1), (2) or (3)” and insert “27(1) or (3)”

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, in moving to this last amendment to be debated, I should note that this is a minor and technical amendment to correct a drafting inconsistency between Clauses 27(2) and 42(3).

In Clause 27, the Secretary of State has the power to make regulations concerning the temporary possession of land under subsections (1), (2) and (3). The Welsh Ministers, however, have the power to make regulations only under subsections (1) and (3) because none of the legislation referenced in subsection (2) is devolved. Therefore, Clause 42(3) specifies that regulations made by the Welsh Ministers under Clause 27 must follow the affirmative resolution procedure. Amendment 4 thus removes the redundant reference to Clause 27(2). I beg to move.

Amendment 4 agreed.

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Moved by

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

5: Schedule 1, page 48, line 7, at end insert—
“(3) The regulations may in particular impose duties on an examiner which are to be complied with by the examiner in considering the draft plan under paragraphs 10 and 11 and which require the examiner—(a) to provide prescribed information to each person within sub- paragraph (4);(b) to publish a draft report containing the recommendations which the examiner is minded to make in the examiner’s report under paragraph 13;(c) to invite each person within sub-paragraph (4) or representatives of such a person to one or more meetings at a prescribed stage or prescribed stages of the examination process;(d) to hold a meeting following the issuing of such invitations if such a person requests the examiner to do so.(4) Those persons are—(a) the qualifying body,(b) the local planning authority, and(c) such other persons as may be prescribed.(5) Where the regulations make provision by virtue of sub-paragraph (3)(c) or (d), they may make further provision about—(a) the procedure for a meeting;(b) the matters to be discussed at a meeting.”

Council Housing

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. I refer the House to my interests; I am an elected councillor and vice-president of the Local Government Association.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise the key role that local authorities play in the provision of housing and we welcome their views on the development of the Government’s policy. The recent housing White Paper makes it clear that we are keen to hear about innovative options and ideas from the sector.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

My Lords, with their renewed focus on the provision of sheltered housing, the Government will be able to provide well-designed housing suitable for the needs of older people while releasing much-needed council homes for families. Why are the Government not doing more in this area? Does the Minister agree that the ridiculous plans to force councils to sell off their most expensive family homes will, if implemented, be a barrier to this aim and should be scrapped?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, in answer to the first point, we are open to looking at bespoke deals. Several local authorities—Sheffield and Stoke-on- Trent are examples—are already engaged with us to discuss that, in terms of the housing White Paper, which is recognised by many for its boldness in looking at these issues. In relation to the higher-value assets, the noble Lord will be aware that we will shortly be announcing a pilot in relation to that.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that back in 1979 I wrote a pamphlet entitled The Disaster of Direct Labour? Will he confirm that, while every encouragement will be given to local authorities to commission building, they will not be allowed to build any homes themselves? In addition, will he confirm that the sheltered housing dimension to which the noble Lord opposite referred is a vitally important area? I hope that Her Majesty’s Government will look very seriously at that element of council housing.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as my noble friend says, sheltered housing is absolutely vital. I am very pleased to say that. I do not think there is any suggestion of bringing back direct labour. I am told that he was a byword in relation to direct labour in the 1970s. However, we recognise the importance of council housing. He will know that in the last five years we have built more council housing than was built in the previous 13 years, from 1997 to 2010.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, in reminding the House that I, too, am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware that 10 days ago the Chartered Institute of Housing said:

“The government’s ambition to solve the housing crisis will not be possible if an imbalance in housing funding continues … as new figures reveal just £8 billion of the £51 billion earmarked for housing up to 2021 will directly fund affordable homes”.?


Does the Minister agree that we need many more homes for social rent?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the Housing White Paper talks about boldness and the fact that we are looking at a mix of housing. That is very welcome and has certainly been welcomed by many people across political parties—for example, the London mayor. It is absolutely right that we should do that, and, of course, social housing is an important part of that. I was unaware of the quote that the noble Lord mentioned. However, he will know that a range of people across many parties and professional organisations have welcomed the Housing White Paper as initiating a very valuable debate on housing right across the board.

[Baroness Greengross (CB)]

My Lords, as the White Paper consultation specifically excludes Chapter 4, will the Minister confirm that DCLG would nevertheless welcome informed commentary around its wider implications as it relates to housing, particularly for older people, as that is the only type of housing with care which will release pressures on both the health service and social care?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am very pleased to acknowledge the role that the noble Baroness has played in relation to that sector, which is, of course, vital. Given that she has pushed hard on this, and correctly so, she will know that we have made provision for this type of housing for older people, particularly in the Neighbourhood Planning Bill. I am happy to acknowledge how important this area is.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, how many government initiatives on this issue have failed in the past?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am not sure to what issue the noble Lord refers but I am very happy to agree that since the war housing has been a challenge for all political parties. We are simply not building enough. However, there is no reason to give up. If we gave up because past initiatives had failed or had not totally succeeded, that would not be valuable to anybody. The Housing White Paper and this Government’s determination are clear. I welcome the noble Lord doing his best to ensure that he holds our feet to the fire in delivering.

[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, when does the Minister expect to get back from the 2015-16 figure of fewer than 1,000 new starter homes in the social sector to the 40,000 started in 2009-10? I declare my interest in that I got into local government in the 1970s in Preston, when we had people coming across from Northern Ireland to escape the violence. In those days, we had housing available to help people when they arrived. Now, given the dreadful government figures, local authorities will not be able to help such people.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I acknowledge the role that the noble Baroness had in relation to the dreadful position in Northern Ireland and I hope that we never go back to that sort of awful situation. In relation to the general point that she made, I have already acknowledged to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, the importance of the social sector. As the noble Baroness knows, we have a target of building 400,000 affordable homes up to 2020. Obviously it is important that we get to the sort of figure that is required to meet the housing needs of the country across a whole range of sectors, certainly including the social sector.

Local Government: Women in Leadership Roles

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what support they are giving to local government to increase the number of women in leadership roles to be more in line with those in central government and the private sector.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, on International Women’s Day, I will open with congratulations to my noble friend; she has been a leader in local government for well over a decade now. As she knows, the Government are fully committed to equality for all. We continue to provide support to the local government sector to achieve this—for example, through our support of the Local Government Association’s work. Effective, representative leadership is at the heart of our democracy. As independent bodies, local authorities have a responsibility to ensure that this is the case for local government in the workforce, in political life and beyond.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, only 14.7% of local authorities are led by women. I do not think that is enough. We can compare that with the Government, where we have our second woman Conservative Prime Minister, whose Cabinet is 35% women. How can Her Majesty’s Government support local government with initiatives to increase the number of women in senior roles in local government, particularly with lessons learned not only by central government but by the private sector?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend is certainly right with those statistics. The £20 million annual budget to deliver a range of programmes offering support and assistance to local government through the LGA includes specific measures accentuating opportunities for women. For example, in October 2016, a “Be a Councillor” event was geared particularly towards women and as a result we now have more women councillors.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, the theme of this year’s International Women’s Day is “Be bold for change”. I would welcome the Minister’s commitment to be bold for change, not just by giving some money to the LGA to encourage more women to become councillors but by being proactive in encouraging more women to be council leaders. Until 50% of councils are led by women, we should not be satisfied. Does he agree?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, across the range I agree. All political parties have a part to play in this. If we look at representation in Parliament, the noble Baroness will be aware that in the general election the Liberal Democrats did not elect a single woman MP. That has now improved: they have one. We all have a part to play; certainly the Government do. Political parties have a part to play, as do private industries. All of us together need to improve the position in public life and private life.

[Baroness Gale (Lab)]

My Lords, having more women in local government is essential. It is often a precursor to office in other fields, such as becoming a Member of Parliament. Does the Minister agree that women want to serve but there must be a responsibility, as he said, on all political parties to ensure that women are treated equally? Does he therefore agree that the Government should adopt the recommendation from the Women and Equalities Committee in another place that, to achieve parity among candidates, we need legislation that involves financial penalties for underperformance, and that this measure would increase the number of women councillors and women in all walks of elected positions? This happens in other countries. Will he comment on that and do his best to make sure it happens?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I know the noble Baroness has done considerable work in Wales in relation to the National Assembly. She will be aware that there was a mandatory position on all-women shortlists, or twinning at one stage, although that has since been dropped. There are many ways that we can achieve success, and part of it is through action by political parties and part through action by government. She will perhaps be aware that today the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have announced £5 million to assist women returning to work. This is the sort of thing we need to look at. Action needs to be taken perhaps on indirect discrimination which has affected women and on the gender pay gap we have, but there are many different matters that can be addressed, and I do not think there is a silver bullet.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

My Lords, what support are Her Majesty’s Government giving to encourage a greater proportion of women in leadership positions in central government?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the position in central government has been improving steadily. In local government, 25% of chief executives are women, while in my own department more than 50% of the workforce are women. The Permanent Secretary, Melanie Dawes, is the champion for women across government and has been doing things today for International Women’s Day and on a regular basis. Central government can set an example that we hope will be picked up in the private sector, although it has to be said that the private sector has improved significantly over the last five years.

[Baroness Hollis of Heigham (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the whole House wants to see the proper and appropriate representation of women in local government, in central government and in the professions. But would the Minister accept that with the increasing drive to larger and larger local government units, pushed by the Treasury, the proportion of women drops off? Women are more highly represented in the smaller authorities than in the larger ones, let alone LEPs and combined authorities. That is because of the cost, particularly in rural areas, of transport, childcare and so on, which falls in practice disproportionately on women and makes them unable to stand. The Minister has talked about indirect discrimination, but could he also look at institutional discrimination, in which the structures bear down more heavily and inappropriately on women?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I take issue with the noble Baroness in relation to some of that. I do not think there is anything inevitable about women not being encouraged or able to lead larger organisations. For example, we are looking in government at the FTSE 350 companies, where there has been considerable improvement on leadership over the last five years. I accept what she says about the challenges, which we have to address, but I do not think there is anything inevitable about women not leading larger organisations—although she perhaps did not mean to imply that. The Government need to look at some of the indirect measures that we can take.

Surrey County Council: Financial Issues

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice. In doing so, I refer the House to my registered interests: I am an elected councillor and a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Government have repeatedly made clear, there is no special deal for Surrey County Council—there never has been and there never will be. The final local government finance settlement was laid in Parliament on 20 February. It is clear that the Government have not provided any additional funding to Surrey and have not promised to do so. Surrey informed the Government that it wanted to become a pilot for the 100% business rate retention scheme. DCLG made it clear that this was not possible for 2017-18 but that it could apply for 2018-19 when it will be more widely available.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark]

So we have Councillor David Hodge CBE speaking to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government while he is sitting in his car at Downing Street; the Secretary of State then scuttling in to see the Chancellor; and a special adviser ringing Councillor Hodge back—a man we have heard is not the sort who gives up—to tell Councillor Hodge what he can and cannot say and to make reference to a Surrey MP who has been outstanding. Will the Minister tell us what are the issues decided upon, what is the sweetheart deal and what is the gentlemen’s agreement that has been reached between the Government and Surrey County Council? Are the Government being straight with us or did Councillor David Hodge dream up these events? Will the Minister tell us which he thinks it is?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I have already indicated to the noble Lord that the Government have been totally honest on this throughout. Surrey County Council asked whether it could be part of the business rate retention scheme for 2017-18. That applies to devolution deals, and has been taken advantage of by Greater Manchester, the city of Liverpool, the West Midlands and London. It is not open to other authorities. We have indicated that they can apply, like other authorities—and we discussed this with other authorities before we discussed it with Surrey—for 2018-19, when it is open to all local authorities, and they will then be eligible for that assistance.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister says that the scheme was available to anyone who felt like applying—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Pinnock]

Well, what a fine mess somebody has got us into. Here we are, as has been described, with phone calls from a car to the Secretary of State—not even a meeting. Whatever the Minister believes, certainly the leader of Surrey County Council believes, as I have seen and listened to today on YouTube, that there was a gentlemen’s agreement—on International Women’s Day. Does the Minister agree that subterfuge of this sort undermines the essential prerequisite of trust and confidence that has to exist between local government and central government? Will he ensure that the Secretary of State comes clean on this gentlemen’s agreement and reveals all the other secret deals done with Conservative-run councils?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, let me restate—indeed, this was confirmed by Councillor Hodge yesterday—that there is no deal. There was never any question of special arrangements for Surrey; it is subject to the same rules as every other local authority. It can apply for consideration for the business rates retention scheme for 2018-19; it may wish to do that or not—I do not know—but it is open to that authority as it is to all authorities, whatever their political complexion. That is the position.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, I wonder if the Minister understands that there is real concern that Surrey had less need of the additional money for social care than any other authority in the country because it has the lowest proportion of population with entitlement to publicly funded social care. I know that the Minister is coming to the north-east soon, and I hope that before he does so he will put pressure on the Chancellor to ensure that the additional money for social care is allocated on the basis of need. In the north-east, there is not a single authority where less than 65% of those eligible for social care require publicly funded social care, as against 1% in Surrey. Again, the tax base in the north-east is much lower because of the lower property base and ability to raise council tax. This is an issue of need around the country, and there should not be any special deals for Surrey without addressing the needs of places such as the north-east.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am very much looking forward to my visit to the north-east, which the noble Baroness kindly mentioned, which as she knows includes a visit to domestic abuse services. On the finance settlement, the Government’s and therefore the department’s position is very much that we wanted Surrey to come to the agreement that more than 97% of councils came to. It chose not to do so and therefore is outside of that agreement. When I am in the north-east I shall be in listening mode, but I hope that the noble Baroness is not exaggerating my powers to persuade councillors.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

This is a Private Notice Question, of which the Minister had previous notice. Can he now try, instead of reading from a prearranged brief, to answer the specific questions put by my noble friend Lord Kennedy of Southwark? His questions were absolutely clear but they were not answered. I am sure that if he needs him to, my noble friend will repeat them.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I was absolutely clear. I am not reading from a prepared brief. The position is absolutely clear, and we have made a Written Ministerial Statement on it. I hope that the noble Lord is not seeking to make mischief—it would be unusual if he were not. There is no sweetheart deal with Surrey. There was never a prospect of a sweetheart deal with Surrey. Surrey is in the same position as every other local authority except that, as I indicated, regrettably it did not sign up to the financial deal. I do not accept the proposition the noble Lord seeks to put—that the position Surrey is putting forward is the correct position. I am sorry, but he wishes me to say something I do not want to say and am not going to say. The Government’s position is absolutely clear—there is no special deal. I make that absolutely clear.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

I wonder whether the Minister can help me. Something caused Surrey to change its mind. What does he think it was?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I have no idea. That is a question for Surrey to answer. However, we have had a freedom of information request, which I believe the noble Lord opposite knows about. We are very keen to respond to that and will do so. All the relevant documents, which I am sure will set out this matter very clearly, will be disclosed.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, the Tory leader of Surrey County Council said that there was a gentlemen’s agreement. The Minister says that there is not. Which one is telling the truth and which one is not?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have just indicated, I have set out the Government’s position very clearly: that there is no gentlemen’s agreement. There is no written agreement, as I think was suggested. As I have just said, there is a Freedom of Information Act request to which we are responding by disclosing the relevant documents. I am sure that will illustrate the point I am making—that there is no special deal at all for Surrey.

[Lord Low of Dalston (CB)]

My Lords, does that mean that the leader of Surrey County Council is not telling the truth?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am not here to fling accusations about. That is a matter for him to deal with. I am willing to take questions that are put to me but I cannot take questions that are properly a matter for Surrey County Council and its leader to deal with.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the question has to be answered. Either the leader of Surrey County Council was lying or he completely misunderstood his conversations with the Secretary of State and all those others to whom he spoke. Therefore, the Government are suggesting either one or the other. I am sure that the Minister will decline to comment on either of those but can he tell us categorically whether anyone in No. 10 was involved in the discussions with Surrey County Council?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the discussions with Surrey County Council were conducted quite properly by officials in the department and by the Secretary of State, as you would expect with local authorities and local authority leaders. We are having discussions across the board with Norfolk, Hampshire, Lincolnshire—I think—and Suffolk. They are not unique to the position of Surrey. I want to make that absolutely clear. There is nothing special about a single local authority leader having discussions with the Department for Communities and Local Government or with the Secretary of State. That is absolutely right and we would be criticised if that did not happen.

Allotments: Council Provision

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Sharples]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the Statement by Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth on 7 February on the Housing White Paper, what steps they are taking to ensure that councils continue to provide suitable plots for allotments.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government recognise that allotments are valuable assets that play an important role in bringing communities together to live healthier lifestyles. Before disposing of allotments, councils must satisfy a range of statutory criteria set by the Government. Moreover, there is a range of measures through which communities can help to safeguard their allotments, including the National Planning Policy Framework, neighbourhood planning and the community right to bid, as well as always, it is hoped, keeping allotments free of Japanese knotweed.

[Baroness Sharples (Con)]

My Lords, does not the Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908 still apply to councils? If more than six people ask for an allotment, are they not to be given one?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend is right about the importance of the 1908 Act and subsequently the 1925 Act, and the Government subsequently tightened the statutory duties on local authorities in the 2014 guidance which ensures that existing plot holders are protected if a local authority wishes to dispose of the allotments. That protection is in place.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, while allotments make a valuable contribution, public parks play an even larger part in promoting health and well-being. Last October, the Heritage Lottery Fund warned that local council cuts were endangering the condition and health of public parks, and last month the CLG committee warned of cuts of up to 97%, with some parks facing a return to the neglect suffered in the 1980s and 1990s. What are the Government doing to mitigate this threat to amenity and public health?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as always, the noble Lord is absolutely right about the importance of green spaces, which, as he will know, are well protected in the housing White Paper, which is open for consultation until 2 May. I have no doubt that the noble Lord will respond to it.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a plot holder in Saltaire. The noble Lord talked about the benefits to the community of communal space and communal gardens, but do the Government encourage developers developing new housing to move back from individual gardens and individual houses towards a greater density of houses with communal space and communal gardens—exactly what allotments are—given the current long waiting lists in so many parts of the country for allotments?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I indicated, green spaces in general are the subject of consultation in the housing White Paper. The noble Lord is right about the importance of appropriate density provision, with those green spaces. We give special protection to allotments and have done since 1908. If anything, that protection has been ramped up in the 2014 guidelines. Regarding waiting lists, I have spoken to the National Allotment Society. The pressure has eased on allotment waiting lists. There is still a waiting list, but it is not as long as it was, say, 10 years ago.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that private landowners are often very well placed to make land available for allotments? Given that, will he encourage Defra to promote discussions between councillors, the NFU and other representatives of landowners to see whether they can find ways to promote such private provision?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My noble friend makes a very important point. Having spoken with the National Allotment Society, I know that it is discussing and bringing to fruition a plan with British Telecom, making available a lot of land that is now I think 1,200 disused telephone exchanges, which will be used for allotments, and that is heartening. I certainly take on board what my noble friend said and echo it.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, 100 years ago last month, the Germans declared unrestricted U-boat warfare on this nation and almost starved us to death. Of course allotments became very important, as they were in the Second World War. While allotments are wonderful things, does the Minister not feel that protecting our merchant shipping with enough warships might be more important?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, it is like a round of Mornington Crescent with the noble Lord—he always succeeds in bringing that in. Of course I agree about the importance of allotments, not just for healthier lifestyles, but for ensuring that we have appropriate food supplies in the country.

[Lord Elton (Con)]

My Lords, massive numbers of houses are now planned for the future. In the literature on them I have seen no reference to the provision of allotments for new housing. That will be appended to many small communities that have plenty of provision, but there is nothing on the map to show what will be added to that provision when the new houses are built.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am sure my noble friend will take comfort from the fact that thanks to neighbourhood planning, which owes its root to the Localism Act 2012, many areas are bringing forward plans for neighbourhood allotments—Thame, Exeter, Norwich and Haywards Heath, to give just some examples.

[The Countess of Mar (CB)]

My Lords, further to the question from his noble friend, the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, is the Minister aware that the National Trust provides some allotments? A number of charities have communal gardens to help people with mental health problems. Rooting around in the soil, seeing plants grow and then harvesting them is a wonderful rehabilitative practice.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Countess makes a valuable point about all the benefits of allotments. That is why we provide special protection for and give such importance to them in neighbourhood planning, community right to bid and the planning framework I spoke of.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, referring back to the supplementary question of the noble Viscount, Lord Hailsham, does the Minister agree that one of the great benefits of allotments is the diversity of what is grown on them and the effect of that on the population of pollinators, which of course are extremely important to agriculture? Does he not think that that is a good reason to encourage farmers to make land available?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an important point about pollinators and the great variety of plants and vegetables that grow on allotments. I have had the opportunity to see this with my own brother—and I hope that he is listening to this so that I can benefit again this year.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, in the London area in the past the obligations were fewer for local authorities. Is it still the position that London is treated differently?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend, who understands London like few others, is absolutely right: that was the position in the 1908 Act. However, since the 1925 Act, London has been dealt with on exactly the same basis. If I am wrong on that, I will write to my noble friend and put a copy of the letter in the Library.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that, once we have left the European Union, we will probably have to grow a lot more of our own food, and therefore that we will need many more allotments—in which case we will certainly have to look at the law again? Does the Department for Exiting the European Union have this on its agenda?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, first, as I indicated in my earlier response to the noble Lord, Lord West, growing our own food is of importance anyway. I do not know whether we are looking at this in particular through the Department for Exiting the European Union, but it is of extreme importance—as are all the other benefits of allotments, which is why they are so important, as indicated in the exchanges today.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that concern about public parks—to which the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, made reference—is widely shared across this House? Will he say what the Government are doing now to safeguard their future while the consultation exercise grinds along?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I share the view that this is extremely important, as my noble friend indicated. As I said, this is acknowledged in the housing White Paper. We face many challenges, of which building more houses while protecting the green belt and public parks is one. As I said, the consultation will be open to take views until 2 May.

Short-Term Letting for Holiday Purposes

Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth Excerpts

Thursday 2nd March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and declare my interest, which is in the written register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government and Wales Office (Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government support the shared economy and have no plans to introduce a blanket ban on whole-property listings. London boroughs can already apply to the Secretary of State for consent to restrict short-term letting in a particular area where necessary. We welcome Airbnb’s recent decision to amend its systems so that entire-home listings in London are not available for more than 90 nights in any given year without appropriate planning permission.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but is he aware that many—possibly even most—Airbnb lettings are of properties which are not allowed to be let on a short-term basis, as they are in long-term residential blocks of flats? In New York, these short-term lets are no longer allowed in any block which is long-term residential, because of the degree of disruption. Is he further aware that seven London boroughs have called for legislation on this issue?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, taking up the very relevant last point first, London boroughs have the power—indeed, the responsibility—to enforce that in their areas. The matter rests with local authorities if hosts and tenants are breaking the law on the 90-day limit—not 90 consecutive days but 90 days in any given year; they have that power. There are restrictions in New York, but it is still possible to operate there, albeit within different limits from those in London.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister realise that the short-term holiday lets referred to in the Question are distorting the longer-term letting market in not only heavily urbanised areas but in some of the most attractive parts of the country? Is he aware how attractive this is? A modest house without a view of a lake or a hill can be let in high season for more than £3,000 a week in the Lake District National Park. There is no incentive for landlords to rent out houses to local people or people who want to work in the area on a long-term basis.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, I am aware that outside London there are undoubtedly many possibilities for the sort of let the noble Lord describes. He cited the Lake District, and there are other areas such as Bath, the Cotswolds, Oxford and Cambridge.

I am meeting Airbnb to discuss its response to the concerns expressed, which has been favourable. There are other providers as well, which I will be seeking to speak to. There are provisions in leases that can be enforced by landlords; where appropriate, there are provisions on statutory nuisance and private nuisance; and I come back to the point that within London, although not outside, the boroughs can act themselves.

[Lord Tope (LD)]

My Lords, I am pleased that the Minister is going to meet Airbnb, which is, I guess, the market leader. Is he aware that this is a significant problem in parts of central London? For instance, research by central London amenity societies shows that 20% of housing stock has been lost; indeed, in some blocks of flats the figure is as high as 80%. Is the answer a tough licensing regime which includes data-sharing, an opportunity to call out on problems and so on? Will he discuss all these issues when he meets Airbnb and report back to the House on the outcome?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as I have indicated, within London, which the noble Lord cited, there are restrictions already, so I do not believe that this is distorting the market in the way he suggests because there is that 90-day limit. I will certainly be discussing these matters when I meet Airbnb, and in all fairness to it, it has responded to concerns and ensured that its listings make absolutely clear what the law is and that it is operating within it. I do not think we can ask for more than that.

[Baroness Hooper (Con)]

My Lords, regarding the tourist industry, is it not unfair that hotels and other licensed premises are subject to business rates, which are due for a great rise, whereas Airbnb premises and, I understand, Uber escape them? Are the Government planning to adjust this situation?

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, as my noble friend will be aware, we discussed business rates yesterday and we are looking at the position of businesses that have had steep increases. Many hotels around the country have not had steep increases and, indeed, some will have experienced a fall in business rates. In answer to the general point, we also need to be aware that many consumers benefit from this. This is very popular, as is evidenced by the fact that it throws up some concerns. We have to consider the matter in a balanced way.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

What steps does the Inland Revenue take to collect tax from the owners of properties that are let out on this basis, including capital gains tax, where a property is disposed of after such use?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, the taxation rules would apply in the normal way. Where there is a capital gain, the owner of the property would be responsible for that in the normal way, subject to reliefs, and the owner would be responsible for schedular income tax in the normal way.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

The Minister said that local authorities can enforce the law. These cases cost thousands of pounds. Why should the council tax payer pick up the bill? Surely there has to be another solution.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, under the Deregulation Act there is responsibility for enforcing this against a particular owner of a property. Initially, of course, there would be a discussion—I do not suppose that the first thing that happens is that it ends up in court—but for those defying the law, there is potentially a £20,000 fine on summary conviction and an unlimited fine on indictment, which would be a considerable incentive to obey the law. That is what we are finding in the great bulk of cases.

[Baroness O'Cathain (Con)]

My Lords, surely the great growth element in our economy is tourism. Families coming from abroad have much more opportunity to see things in London if they can get reasonably cheap bed and breakfast or Airbnb. To bring a family of three children and their parents to London for a week would cost an enormous amount, whereas this way, they can at least have reasonably priced accommodation and then spend the money in other areas.

[Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very material point. I have certainly spoken to people from overseas who have used Airbnb in London and had fantastic experiences. Largely, it operates very effectively and without concern. There are some concerns, which I understand, and I know my noble friend Lady Gardner of Parkes has been relentless in pursuing some of the issues. However, I come back to the point that there are means of enforcement—through the local authority, statutory nuisance provisions and provisions in leases—and I encourage tenants to get on to their landlords, where appropriate, to make sure they are enforcing their leases.