Kit Malthouse debates involving HM Treasury during the 2024 Parliament

Tue 17th Dec 2024
Wed 11th Dec 2024
Finance Bill
Commons Chamber

Committee of the whole House (day 2)

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Gareth Davies Portrait Gareth Davies
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I agree completely with my hon. Friend, who has once again made a very astute intervention. It marries very clearly with what we have seen in business confidence. He mentioned the record since the pandemic. Business confidence has tanked to low levels that we have not seen since the economy had to be shut down during the pandemic. A survey by the CBI, which makes for stark reading, says that 62% of businesses have said that they will have to reduce recruitment, while 48% have said that they will be reducing existing staff levels. That is all because this Bill will impact them in ways they never imagined and were never told about. Whether businesses freeze or cut jobs, or, as the Chartered Institute of Taxation has warned, shift employees to a self-employed basis, or, even worse, offshore workers to overseas destinations, the potential impact on employment should absolutely worry us all.

That is why we have tabled new clause 1, which would require the Chancellor to publish an assessment of the impact of this tax rise on the employment rate within a year of the passage of the Act. It is not controversial; it just seeks clarification and an assessment.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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This impact assessment is extremely important, not least because at a macro level—given that the UK is essentially a services-based economy in which human capital is the most expensive fixed cost, effectively—there is no way to escape this tax. Unlike corporation tax, which is levied on profits, this tax is levied whether a business is making a profit or not; businesses that have been marginal but struggling may well be forced into a loss, and may therefore choose to close down. It therefore has to be essential that we look backwards, if this tax goes ahead, and ask what the impact has been from a services point of view.

Gareth Davies Portrait Gareth Davies
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That was a classic case of how to make an intervention, because it added to the debate. I had not mentioned that point, but my right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The impact on employers, who will pay the tax whether they are profitable or not, is absolutely right. That is, again, not something I think the Government have fully appreciated.

Finance Bill

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Clause 51 makes the same rate increases as clause 50, but applies to land transactions with an effective date on or after 1 April 2025. These two clauses will provide an advantage for first-time buyers and those moving home, helping to support home ownership. The OBR-certified costing estimates that increasing the higher rates for additional dwellings by 2 percentage points is expected to result in 130,000 additional transactions over the next five years by first-time buyers and other people buying a primary residence.
Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, but I am surprised she has not declared her interest because I believe she is herself a landlord. She presumably owns another property, so to cast aspersions on people who do as some kind of plague is, I think, a little unfair.

I assume from this measure that the Minister would expect there to be some impact on the rental market. This is designed to deter people from becoming landlords. Given that 90-odd per cent of our rental properties in the UK are owned by people who have two or fewer properties, what is the scale of the impact she is expecting? How many people are likely to either exit being a landlord or, particularly in somewhere like London, not bother being a landlord at all? What will be the wider impact given that in the capital, such as where she represents, lots of people have no option but to rent, because they are unable to accumulate the deposit required to buy a property at an inflated value? Are we going to see fewer rental properties in the capital?

Tulip Siddiq Portrait Tulip Siddiq
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I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I am a landlord, and that is absolutely declared in my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. If I was meant to declare it for the purposes of this debate, I do apologise, but it is referenced very clearly in my entry. I would say that, as a landlord, I am very happy to pay extra tax if it is necessary to fix the foundations of our economy.

I do not agree with the right hon. Gentleman’s assessment of London. I think we are more resilient than that, especially in Camden, and I think we will be fine.

Clauses 50 and 51 will provide an advantage for first-time buyers and those moving home, and it will help to support home ownership. The OBR-certified costing estimates that increasing the higher rates for additional dwellings by 2 percentage points is expected to result in 130,000 additional transactions over the next five years by first-time buyers and others buying a primary residence. I hope that addresses some of the concerns of Conservative Members.

Clause 52 introduces special transitional rules to ensure no additional tax is payable for land transactions substantially performed before 1 April 2025. In most cases, SDLT is charged at the point of completion in the property-buying process. In some cases, however, such as where the buyer has performed their purchase by paying for the property or taking possession of it, the tax is chargeable at that earlier point. The clause in question ensures that buyers who have performed their transactions will not pay more tax as a result of the changes in rates brought about by clauses 50 and 51 when they complete their purchase.

Clause 53 increases from 15% to 17% the single rate of SDLT payable by companies and other non-natural persons when purchasing dwellings worth more than £500,000. The single rate of SDLT was introduced alongside the annual tax on enveloped dwellings to deter the practice of buying and owning UK residential properties within a corporate wrapper by increasing the rate companies pay. The single rate applies where companies and other non-natural persons buy a dwelling for more than £500,000 that they do not intend to use for a relievable purpose such as renting the property or developing it. Increasing the single rate keeps it aligned with the highest rate of tax paid on purchases of the most expensive residential properties, so that the tax remains effective as a deterrent to enveloping.

In summary, increasing the higher rates of SDLT will ensure that those looking to move house or purchase their first property have a greater advantage over second home buyers, landlords, and companies purchasing dwellings. The measure will raise more money than the manifesto policy, and go further to rebalance the housing market. The changes will raise £310 million per year by 2029-30, which will be used to support the Government’s first steps and other priorities.

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James Wild Portrait James Wild
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I do. This is just another example of the impact of the Bill. The impact assessments, such as they are, are incredibly thin and do not get into the detail of the measures and the complications that arise. They are, I would say, wholly inadequate. Under clauses 50 to 53, taxes on property purchases will, as the Minister said, go up by £310 million. Clauses 50 and 51 increase the rate for additional dwellings, such as buy-to-let and residential properties, from 3% to 5%. Nationwide estimates that that could bring extra costs of £4,000 on the purchase of a typical rental home. At least clause 52 ensures that if transactions have been substantially performed before the increases come in, no additional tax will be charged. Clause 53 amends the single rate on purchases by companies of dwellings for more than £500,000. Let us not forget that the Government have also chosen not to renew the nil-rate stamp duty threshold, which is currently £250,000 but will halve to £125,000—I do not think the Economic Secretary to the Treasury mentioned that.

As I said, experts have warned that the changes could have damaging effects on the rental market, making it less attractive to provide homes for private rent; rents could increase as a result of the limited supply. Every hon. Member will know from their constituency the huge demand for rental properties. According to Zoopla, on average around 21 people are chasing every property that is put up for rent. This tax will do nothing to encourage the supply of new, decent, rented housing.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse
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I hope that the shadow Minister shares my surprise at the Minister agreeing to pay the stamp duty retrospectively on her flat. Let us hope that the cheque makes its way to HMRC. When stamp duty reaches penal rates, it not only diverts people away from becoming landlords, but means they may operate differently. Is there not a strong possibility that we might see a large number of properties in places such as London owned by foreign corporations that are domiciled in other jurisdictions? Transfer of those properties could take place by transferring the corporation’s ownership in the Isle of Man or the Caymans or somewhere like that. That would mean that no stamp duty was payable at all on the transfer of the property. If that proliferated, we might find that large numbers of properties in the UK were owned by overseas entities, precisely because of the penal taxation here.

James Wild Portrait James Wild
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My right hon. Friend makes an interesting point, and I bow to his knowledge of the situation in London, which is far greater than mine. Our new clauses are about reviewing the impact of the measure, partly so that if we saw such activity, which would go against the Government’s objectives and weaken the rental market, action could be taken. I hope that the Government will look at the evidence.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has also criticised the change, stating:

“It again reduces transactions, increases again the bias in favour of owner occupation, and against renting, and at least part of the consequence will be to reduce the supply of rental housing and so increase rents.”

The National Residential Landlords Association has said that the tax changes in the Budget will make it less attractive to provide homes for private rent. It has warned that the measure will exacerbate the shortfall that Members will all be familiar with, and an assessment it commissioned a couple of years ago showed that increasing the rate to 5% could lead to the loss of more than 500,000 private rented homes over 10 years.

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Tulip Siddiq Portrait Tulip Siddiq
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I have to admit that I have found this debate a little baffling, given some of the arguments made from the Opposition Front Benches. However, I will respond to some of them now.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse
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Our concern is that there has been no assessment of the impact on the rental market. All that the Opposition new clauses are asking for is a review, because no evidence has been adduced in this debate. There are three people who have spoken in this debate who have second properties—who are landlords—and that is completely fine. What we are saying is that there will be an impact on future landlords and on future behaviour from this tax, as there was from the tax that was introduced by the previous Government.

The second thing to say—forgive me for the slightly extended intervention, Madam Chair—is that when the Government are setting levels of tax, there is an optimal point at which to levy tax in order to collect the maximum revenue, beyond which it starts to become penal and has a deterrent effect on activity. I suppose what we are saying is that we have got this far, and wish to go no further.

VAT: Independent Schools

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Tuesday 8th October 2024

(2 months, 2 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Damian Hinds Portrait Damian Hinds
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My right hon. Friend is correct: substantial export earnings come from the sector, and from a globally mobile set of families. But I would go further; in addition to the direct export earnings effect, there is also an indirect effect. For companies deciding where to site their European headquarters, English education is a big factor. That is partly because of our brilliant state schools, which have improved so much over the past 14 years, but the availability of independent schools is also a factor.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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The shadow Secretary of State makes a strong point about the sanctity of zero-rating VAT for education. I am concerned that children’s clothes, which are currently exempt from VAT, may be the next target. Notwithstanding the impact that the change to VAT will have on individual families, does he agree that private and prep schools—my constituency has five—are enormous employers of people involved in building maintenance, such as electricians and plumbers, and that the impact on the wider economy could well be profound?

Lindsay Hoyle Portrait Mr Speaker
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Order. I remind Members to look towards the Chair when they are speaking, or what they say will not be picked up by the mics; I then struggle to hear them. I know that the Minister was struggling as well. If Members keep the chatter down, it will help us both.

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Stephen Morgan Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Stephen Morgan)
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I thank the Opposition for bringing forward the debate. While the focus has been on private schools and the implications of the planned tax changes, it has allowed us to consider what is important in education. It is important to support the aspirations of all young people and their parents, and it is essential that all young people receive a good education in a safe and supportive environment.

It is certainly true that many parents choose to seek that provision in the private sector. The Government will always support their right to choose where to educate their children, but most parents do not have that choice, and all parents have high aspirations for their children. We therefore need to prioritise our efforts and consider how we can better serve the 94% of children in our state-funded schools.

Ending the tax breaks on VAT and business rates for private schools is a necessary decision to drive high and rising standards across our state schools and give every young person the best start in life. It will generate additional funding to help improve public services, including the Government’s commitments relating to children and young people.

This money will allow the Government to expand early years childcare for all by opening 3,000 new nurseries, thus helping parents back to work. The Government will recruit 6,500 new teachers and improve teacher and headteacher training as part of restoring teaching to the career of choice for the very best graduates. The Treasury is of course responsible for tax policy and has led on the publication of the draft legislation and technical consultation since July. As the Exchequer Secretary set out, VAT will apply to tuition and boarding fees charged by private schools for terms starting on or after 1 January 2025. It is right that we end tax breaks as soon as possible to raise the funding needed to deliver those educational priorities. The Treasury is assessing the impact of these changes in advance of the Budget. The independent Office for Budget Responsibility will certify the Government’s costings for these measures at the Budget and that will also include the interaction with other VAT receipts.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse
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Will the Minister give way?

Stephen Morgan Portrait Stephen Morgan
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I am going to make some progress. The right hon. Gentleman spoke earlier. I know that many Members are concerned about children with SEND. [Interruption.] Members can shout as much as they like, but I have some really important points to make about SEND. I know I speak for the country—the right hon. Gentleman certainly does not. I assure Members that the Treasury has sought to ensure that these changes do not disadvantage pupils who need provision that is unavailable in the state sector.

Let me be clear: pupils who need a local authority-funded place in a private school, including those with a local authority-funded EHCP, will not be affected by the changes. That is because local authorities are able to reclaim VAT when they are charged. For other pupils, this change should not mean that they will automatically face 20% higher fees. The Government expect private schools to take steps to minimise fee increases, including through reclaiming VAT incurred in supplying education and boarding. I also note that IFS analysis shows that the number of children in private schools has remained steady despite a 20% real-terms increase in average private school fees since 2020 and a 55% rise since 2003.

Members from both sides of the House mentioned transfers to the state-funded sector. There are always some pupils moving between the private and state-funded school sectors. Approximately 50 maintained private schools close every year, for a range of reasons. Where schools do close, pupils may transfer to another private school or move into the state sector. We simply do not accept, in the case of recent closures, that this has had any connection to our policy on VAT. Quite simply, the evidence does not bear that out. The number of pupils who might switch following these changes represents a very small proportion of overall pupil numbers in the state sector. Any displacement is likely to take place over several years, and will mostly come from parents choosing not to place their children in the private sector to begin with, rather than children leaving the private sector. All children of compulsory school age are entitled to a state-funded school place if they need one. I understand that moving schools can be a challenging experience, and local authorities and schools already have processes to support pupils moving between schools.

A number of Members also raised concerns about capacity. There are always a range of pressures on state-funded school places, and the Department for Education works to support local authorities to ensure that every local area has sufficient places for children who need them. That is business as usual and local authorities and schools already have a range of options to increase capacity where it is needed. We are confident that the state sector will be able to accommodate any additional pupils and that there will not be a significant impact on state education as a whole.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Jones) on her maiden speech. I know she will be a real champion for children and young people in her community. I also welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Frith) back to this place and congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (John Grady) on his maiden speech—he spoke eloquently and with passion about his constituency and the needs of his constituents. It was also a real pleasure to hear the maiden speech from the hon. Member for Isle of Wight East (Joe Robertson), who described so well his beautiful constituency, a place I enjoyed holidaying in as a child. I look forward to working with him on issues affecting the Solent region. My hon. Friend the Member for Tipton and Wednesbury (Antonia Bance) gave an excellent maiden speech. It was evident that she will be a strong voice in this place, nationally and for her community. I congratulate the hon. Member for Horsham (John Milne) on his maiden speech, and I wish him well on his unexpected new role in this place and on delivering opportunity for all.

The hon. Member for South Shropshire (Stuart Anderson) and others mentioned military families; I know that colleagues in the Ministry of Defence and the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office will closely monitor the impact on affected military families, considering support via the continuity of education allowance scheme. Small faith schools were raised by a few Members; those schools meet the needs of dedicated faith communities, often at low cost. I know that Treasury colleagues have met representatives from those schools to ensure fairness. A number of right hon. and hon. Members spoke about the impact assessment. As my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury set out, we are considering the impact of the policies and will publish a tax information and impact note at the Budget in the usual way.

In conclusion, this Government were elected to deliver change across our country, not least in our schools. Our mission to break down the barriers to opportunity is exactly what our country needs. This party is showing that education is once again at the forefront of national life. I urge Members across the House to demonstrate that by voting against the motion.

Question put.

The House proceeded to a Division.

Winter Fuel Payment

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Tuesday 10th September 2024

(3 months, 2 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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James Murray Portrait James Murray
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I am going to make some progress.

The Opposition did not like to be reminded of their legacy when they were in government, but let us have a look, shall we? What do they have to show for their years of reckless overspending? A failed asylum system, prisons at breaking point, more than 1 million people waiting for council homes, 4 million children growing up in poverty, and more than 7.5 million people on NHS waiting lists. This Government and every Member of this House who stood on my party’s manifesto were elected to turn things around.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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Yesterday, in the other place, the Transport Minister cast doubt on the continuation of travel concessions for pensioners, which has caused significant alarm in my constituency and others. Notwithstanding the discussion we are having today, could the Minister reassure us that travel concessions for pensioners will continue under a Labour Government?

James Murray Portrait James Murray
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I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention. The Chancellor will take all decisions in the Budget on 30 October—[Interruption.] Let me make one important point to him as we approach the Budget on 30 October: we know there are going to be difficult decisions that we have to take in the Budget and, frankly, that is a direct consequence of the decisions taken by him and his colleagues when they were in government.

Public Spending: Inheritance

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Monday 29th July 2024

(4 months, 4 weeks ago)

Commons Chamber
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Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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My hon. Friend is right. The people of Rother Valley will be shocked and appalled by the gross mismanagement of public finances, including a £6.4 billion overspend on asylum. That is why we are getting a grip on the public finances and public spending to put them on a firmer footing.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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I congratulate you on your ascension, Madam Deputy Speaker. The right hon. Lady says she is keen on transparency. Can she confirm to the House that she had extensive access talks with senior civil servants in the Treasury in the run-up to the general election? It might be helpful, for transparency purposes, if she could lay the minutes of those meetings in the House of Commons for the rest of the House to understand. I am also concerned about the issue of misleading estimates being laid before the House. May I suggest, for the elucidation of Members, that she asks the permanent secretary at the Treasury, and the permanent secretaries of those Departments impacted by the decisions she has made today, to confirm to the House in writing that none of the information that should have been in the estimates was not included—if they were correct, was it included?—so we can see for ourselves whether she is covering up?

Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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The cover-up was from those on the Opposition Benches. The sooner we get an apology to the British people, the better.

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Caroline Nokes Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)
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The hon. Member will know that the Chair is not responsible for the content of contributions made by Ministers, but I am sure that his concern has been heard on the Government Benches. I am sure that if an error has been made in this instance, the Minister will seek to correct it as quickly as possible. It is for the Government to decide on the estimates that they put before the House.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse
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Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Chancellor of the Exchequer made certain assertions about timing during her statement. However, we know from the media that the contents of the statement were briefed to The Guardian at 8.58 pm on Thursday, just after the estimates had been voted on. While I understand that the Chair is not responsible for the content of what is said at the Dispatch Box, the Chair is responsible for the integrity of documents that are laid before the House and on which we vote and rely. May I ask whether this is a matter for the Prime Minister in his governance of the ministerial code, or for the Commissioner for Standards in his upholding of standards in the House? Prima facie, in the absence of any evidence from the Chancellor, it looks as if we have all been misled.

Caroline Nokes Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker
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The right hon. Member will know as well as I do that that is not for the Chair to decide. It is for the Government to decide what they put in their estimates and in documents that are published.

Economy, Welfare and Public Services

Kit Malthouse Excerpts
Monday 22nd July 2024

(5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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I have been compared to a lot of things, Madam Deputy Speaker, but I have never been compared to Joseph Stalin.

Our approach is a brownfield-first approach. We will reintroduce those mandatory targets; of course it is up to local authorities and local communities to decide where the housing should be built, but the answer cannot always be no. If the answer is always no, we will continue as we are, with home ownership declining and mortgages and rents going through the roof. On the Government side of the House, we are not willing to tolerate that.

This King’s Speech shows that we are getting to work. As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister set out, our programme for government is founded on principles of security, fairness and opportunity. Our No. 1 mission is to secure sustained economic growth in our great country through a new partnership between Government, business and working people that prioritises wealth creation for all of our communities.

We will fix the foundations of our economy so we can rebuild Britain and make every part of our country better off. There are a number of important pieces of legislation in the King’s Speech that will help us to grow the economy. In this speech, I will focus on three in particular: the Budget Responsibility Bill to restore economic stability, the national wealth fund Bill to drive investments and the pension schemes Bill to reform our economy. Those Bills speak not just to our programme for government, but also to trust in politics. They show that we will govern as we campaigned and that we will meet our promises to the British people.

In the election campaign, I said the first step we would take would be to restore economic stability, because stability is the precondition to a healthy, growing economy. It is how we keep taxes, inflation and mortgages as low as possible. After years of irresponsibility, we are putting our economy on firm ground once again. We introduced the new Budget Responsibility Bill on Thursday to deliver on our manifesto commitment to introduce a fiscal lock so that I can keep an iron grip on our country’s finances.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)
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The Chancellor and I sat on the Treasury Committee together many years ago, and she will know from our time together that economics is as much art as it is science. Given that she is effectively giving a veto over economic policy to the OBR through this Bill, she must recognise that we need to understand what the people in the OBR believe, what their theories of economics are and what principles they attach themselves to. What further scrutiny of the chair of the OBR and the people doing the forecast will be available to this House, given that effectively they will be co-Chancellor with her during the next few years?

Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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The Treasury Committee, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, can call in the chair and other members of the Office for Budget Responsibility, but his comments show exactly why we need this Bill: so that never again can we have a repeat of the mini Budget. The Bill will require every announcement that makes significant permanent changes to tax and spending to be subject to an independent assessment by the Office for Budget Responsibility. Why? Because unfunded, reckless commitments do not just threaten our public finances; they threaten people’s incomes and they threaten people’s mortgages. We saw that in the wake of the mini-Budget presided over by the former Member for South West Norfolk. I understand that she has taken umbrage in recent days at the idea that that episode was disastrous. Well, if any Conservative Member would like to dispute that fact today, I would be more than happy to give way. [Hon. Members: “Come on then!”] They cheered it at the time, but they are not cheering it now, and I do not imagine that they would put it on their leaflets.

The Conservatives should be ashamed of what they did because people up and down the country are still paying the price for the chaos that they caused. We say: never again. The Budget Responsibility Bill will enshrine that commitment in law.

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Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. One of the biggest challenges people face with getting a mortgage is building up the deposit. That is why we have committed to a mortgage guarantee scheme, to help those people who cannot rely on the bank of mum and dad to get on the housing ladder. That is a really important commitment, as is our commitment to build the homes: unless we build more homes, home ownership will continue to go backwards, as it did over the past few years.

Alongside stability and investment in our economy must come reform, because delivering economic growth requires tough choices. It means taking on vested interests and confronting issues that politicians have too often avoided. The last Government refused to engage with those choices, and refused to level with the British people about what was required. This Government will be different. We have already demonstrated that through a series of reforms to our planning system, and are bringing forward further legislation in the King’s Speech to get Britain building.

Today, I want to focus on another area of our economy where reform is vital: our pension schemes. People across our country work hard to save for the future; they want a better, more secure retirement with the most generous pension possible. At the same time, British businesses with high growth potential need capital to support their expansion. Pension funds are at the heart of this. There will soon be over £800 billion of assets in defined contribution pension schemes, but for too long, those assets have not been targeted towards UK markets. That has impacted British savers, and it has impacted British business.

The last Government also said that this was a problem, and I welcome that acknowledgement, but they never introduced the legislation needed to make the change. We believe in deeds, not words, so we will strengthen investment from private pension providers by bringing forward the pension schemes Bill in the King’s Speech. It will boost pension pots by over £11,000 through a new and improved value for money framework. Through an investment shift in DC schemes, just a 1% shift in asset allocation could deliver £8 billion of new productive investment into the UK economy.

To ensure that the Bill is as strong as possible, I am today launching a pensions investment review, led by the first ever joint Commons Minister appointed between the Treasury and the Department for Work and Pensions—my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Emma Reynolds), the Pensions Minister. This will include a review of the local government pension scheme, the seventh largest pension fund in the world, to ensure it is getting the best value from the savings of nearly 7 million public sector workers, the majority of whom are women and the majority of whom are low-paid. They deserve a pension that is working for them. Together, these reforms will kick-start economic growth by unlocking investment that has been tied up for too long.

Kit Malthouse Portrait Kit Malthouse
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Will the right hon. Lady give way?

Rachel Reeves Portrait Rachel Reeves
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I have already given way to the right hon. Gentleman.