VAT: Independent Schools

Lindsay Hoyle Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

The shadow Secretary of State makes a strong point about the sanctity of zero-rating VAT for education. I am concerned that children’s clothes, which are currently exempt from VAT, may be the next target. Notwithstanding the impact that the change to VAT will have on individual families, does he agree that private and prep schools—my constituency has five—are enormous employers of people involved in building maintenance, such as electricians and plumbers, and that the impact on the wider economy could well be profound?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind Members to look towards the Chair when they are speaking, or what they say will not be picked up by the mics; I then struggle to hear them. I know that the Minister was struggling as well. If Members keep the chatter down, it will help us both.

[Damian Hinds]

My right hon. Friend is of course correct about the economic contribution that schools make locally and the large numbers of people they employ. That point was also made by NASUWT, which is worried about teachers being inadvertently pushed out of the profession if redundancies are made mid-way through the school year.

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[Damian Hinds]

I will take one more intervention before making progress, so as not to try your patience too much, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

It is not that my patience is being tested, but I do worry when shadow Secretaries of States cover a subject at length. I understand, but we need to get on, because lots of Back Benchers are desperate to get in. In fact, we have a very eager Opposition Whip coming in now.

[Paul Holmes]

You will find out, Mr Speaker, that I will not test your patience. I want to take my right hon. Friend back to the point he made about the Education Secretary’s tweet, which I thought was disgraceful. [Hon. Members: “Where is she?”] The divisive language behind that tweet was a disgrace, given the many independent schools that work hard and play by the rules. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the embossed notepaper that the Secretary of State focused on is sent to many children who are being sponsored through bursaries or scholarships, and whose parents work hard to give their children the best education? The Education Secretary should apologise for that disgraceful tweet.

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[James Murray]

I am not going to give way, because I am responding to the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel).

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is a point of order, so you do give way, unfortunately.

[Graham Stuart]

I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker. Could you give any advice to me on how we can ensure that the impact assessment that must have been conducted on this policy is shared with the House? It is a fundamental—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. As you know, that is not a point of order—do not waste my time. Carry on, Minister.

[James Murray]

As I was saying to the right hon. Member for Witham, the Government will publish a tax information and impact note on the VAT policy change at the Budget, once the independent Office for Budget Responsibility has scrutinised and certified the costing of the final policy.

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[James Murray]

I am going to make a bit of progress.

To address some other points raised in this debate, we know that a small number of diplomatic officials and service personnel are posted abroad for extended periods. In such circumstances, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and the Ministry of Defence provide the continuity of education allowance to ensure that this does not interfere with their children’s education. I can give the reassurance today that the Government will monitor closely the impact of these policy changes on affected diplomatic and military families, with any changes to the scheme being considered as—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sure the Lib Dems do not need coaching.

[James Murray]

I am not quite sure what happened there, but I will carry on. I was making an important point, which is that the Government will monitor closely the impact of our policy changes on affected diplomatic and military families, with any changes to the scheme being considered as part of the ongoing spending review.

[James Murray]

I will make a bit of progress. In our consultation on the technical detail of this policy, we have been engaging widely and in depth, and the views of MPs are an important part of that. As I said earlier, it has been a tough but necessary decision to end tax breaks for private schools. We believe it is the right decision, and one we need to implement as soon as possible to help raise the funding that we need to deliver our priorities for state education in this country. We are determined to make sure that education, which is available for all, is of the highest possible quality, because that is how we ensure that we meet the aspiration of every parent to get the best possible education for their children.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

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[Munira Wilson]

The shadow Education Secretary was suggesting to the Minister that that is where he could find some money—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. If Members wish to intervene, they should do it properly. Let us not have side banter, as the rest of the Chamber needs to get in as well.

[Munira Wilson]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. As we have a Treasury Minister rather than an Education Minister opening the debate for the Government, I say gently that he should look at what the Liberal Democrats proposed on reforming capital gains tax as a way to fund some of the important investment that we need in education, rather than looking at taxing parents’ choices to invest in their children’s education.

The Government’s policy would undermine two important principles. First, education should simply not be taxed. As we have heard, all education provided by an eligible body, including university education, music lessons, and tutoring are exempt from VAT, and VAT should not be imposed on any of those things because education is fundamentally a public good. Secondly, parents have the right to choose what education setting is best for their child. As Liberals we have always championed choice, and believe that nothing should get in the way of those important choices. Of course we want to get to a point where every parent can choose a local state school that meets their child’s needs and gives them the best possible start in life, and opportunities to flourish. But let us be honest with ourselves: that is not the reality facing many parents today, especially when their children have special educational needs.

Liberal Democrats have many times raised the crisis in SEND provision. Conservative cuts to school and council budgets mean that many parents and carers simply cannot get their children the support they deserve. The Minister talked a moment ago about sorting out state-school SEND provision, so that no parent with a child with SEND would need to send their child to a private school, but does he recognise that in order to sort out and fix our broken SEND system we will need not millions but billions of pounds? I am not entirely sure that the Chancellor will be giving that kind of money to the Department for Education.

[Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)]

In my constituency there are three independent schools, one of which is a choir school. In one of those independent schools there are 29 children with diagnosed SEND, and only one with an EHCP with that as the named school. Does my hon. Friend agree that given the crisis in attaining EHCPs, especially in West Sussex county council, which is ranked fifth worst in the country and where only 3.6% of EHCPs are given within the statutory framework of 20 weeks, there needs to be more support in dealing with the deluge that this policy will cause county councils—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I suggest that interventions are meant to be short and not a speech, especially if you are on the list? People are going to go down to a six-minute time limit shortly. Please, think of others.

[Munira Wilson]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. She is absolutely right to say that because only children with EHCPs will be exempt from the VAT charge, there will be the unintended consequence of adding yet further pressure to what is already a broken system. Indeed, a parent in my constituency has written to me along those lines to say that they now feel that they will have to go through the application process. So many parents and carers are forced to navigate a postcode lottery and wait months, as my hon. Friend said, to get the support that their children are entitled to.

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[Jen Craft]

You reflect on there being an exemption only for children who have EHCPs, and you mentioned that there should be an exemption for children who do not have an EHCP based on SEN or disability. My question is: how do you define that? There is huge scope for private schools to say that they are SEND specialists. There is not a measure of whether that is the case. How do you define those who have SEND or those with additional needs, beyond the scope of an EHCP?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the hon. Member that when you say “you”, it is as though I have said it? I want to reassure you that I am not involved in any of this.

[Munira Wilson]

Mr Speaker, I would not dare to second-guess your position on this issue. The best way to deal with this issue is to drop the policy entirely, but if we are to exempt children with special educational needs, a good place to start is the SEND register. Just yesterday, I was discussing with one of the headteachers in my constituency the number of children on their SEND register and how they go about identifying them. Schools already do that in the state sector to support children. We could apply those same rules and regulations in the private sector, and those children should be exempted. However, I would rather this policy was just dropped altogether.

For all these reasons, the Liberal Democrats do not support ending the VAT exemption for independent schools. Instead, we want to see a better partnership between independent schools and local state schools. Many already do that, and I am not just talking about a few bursaries here and free use of a pool there; I am talking about genuine partnership working and the sort of brilliant collaboration that I have seen in schools in my constituency, where Hampton school and Lady Eleanor Holles school share staff time with Reach academy in Feltham. They have also been mentoring and coaching pupils for medical school and other university places, and the results have been phenomenal in a disadvantaged part of west London, where typically students were not going on to further or higher education. That partnership has borne immense fruit for those young disadvantaged people.

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[Mr Adnan Hussain (Blackburn) (Ind)]

Does the Member agree that the policy threatens the viability of many independent schools that have charitable status and serve deprived communities, including many independent schools in Blackburn, such as faith schools and those schools serving children with special educational needs? This policy will put those schools on their knees and vastly increase the number of spaces that will be required in public schools. In Blackburn, we do not have those spaces.

[Mr Speaker]

I gently say to the Liberal Democrat spokesperson that you have now been going 18 minutes. [Interruption.] No, let me finish before you make a judgment call. I do not want you to speak for longer than the Government Minister, and we are shortly in danger of doing that. I am sure you will be coming to the end of your speech.

[Munira Wilson]

I apologise, Mr Speaker. I was just coming on to the last paragraph of my speech, but I wanted to take some interventions from those on the Liberal Democrat Benches.

[Mr Speaker]

Perhaps the answer should be that you cut the speech if you want to take more interventions.

[Munira Wilson]

May I just finish by urging Ministers to look, instead of a damaging and counterproductive tax on education, at ways to get independent schools to do more of that great partnership work with state schools and their communities and to ensure they are investing in that local community? Let us ensure that every child, no matter their background or circumstances, is given the support and opportunities they need to thrive. Let us support investment in our education, not penalise it.

[Mr Speaker]

We come to a maiden speech, and we are now on a six-minute limit.

[Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker, for calling me to make my first contribution in the House. It is a great honour to be here. I am so proud to be part of a Government who are putting state education at the heart of our mission. I have not been an MP for long, but I have already spent a lot of my time visiting schools in my constituency, and I have seen and heard for myself the very real challenges that they are facing because of the effects of austerity on their budgets. Opportunities for young people are shrinking in front of our eyes. I am glad that we are making these decisions so that we can invest more in the state education that 93% of our children need.

I would like to talk about the service of my predecessor as MP for North East Derbyshire, Lee Rowley. A constant refrain for me when I was campaigning during the election was how well regarded he was as a constituency MP, which is not always what you want to hear when campaigning for the other side, but it is a clear sign of how well regarded he was by his constituents. I also pay tribute to his service in the House, where he served in various ministerial positions with distinction. I particularly recognise his important work campaigning on behalf of those with ovarian cancer. I am sure that everybody in the Chamber will join me in thanking him for his service.

It is a huge honour to represent my home, North East Derbyshire. I will take a few moments to talk about what that place means to me, and indeed what home means to me. For many of my colleagues, home is where they were born or where they grew up. It is very much the origin of their journey, but for me and many others like me, it is the destination. As many of my fellow military veterans will know, I lived in over 11 different places over the past 10 years as a result of my military service. Whether that was a small officer cadets’ bedroom in the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, kept to the ruthless standards of tidiness that that place demands—standards that may have lapsed since—my first posting to Normandy barracks in the beautiful city of Paderborn in Germany, or indeed the compound in Kabul where I served on operations, my accommodation has been varied, transient, occasionally used as target practice, and rarely felt like home. So when I say that I have found my home in North East Derbyshire, that is because I have come home.

When I turn off junction 29 of the M1 and see in the distance the latticework of green fields of Holy Moor, I know that I am home. When I am walking up Market Street to have a cuppa at the café Host, or something stronger at The Three Horseshoes, I know that I am home. After a busy day’s canvassing, when I am getting a superlative chippy tea at New Tupton Fish Bar or a bacon cobb at Woodheads in Eckington, I know that I am home. When I am crossing the bridge over the River Rother into Killamarsh and I see the sign for that village, called by its original name—please forgive my Anglo-Saxon here—of Chinewoldemaresc, I know that I am home, When I crest the hill at Coal Aston and see before me across the valley the town of Dronfield, with the purple hills of the Peak district in the distance, I know that I am home.

I want to say thank you to the people of North East Derbyshire for seeing in me the service and the values that they want to represent them in this place. I repeat the pledge that I made during my campaign that I will use each and every day here to serve you and deliver the future that I know we can have: a better future based not just on promises, but on real progress.

The work of this Government has already begun, and there is so much that I know will make a huge positive transformation for people in my constituency, whether that is renationalising railways so that we can be proud of the service they provide again, huge reforms to workers’ rights and renters’ rights so that we can end no fault-evictions, or the establishment of the child poverty taskforce so that we can drive down child poverty, just as Labour Governments have done before, and I know we will do again. There is much to do, and much that I am looking forward to being a part of.

Delivery matters. I want to speak briefly about why that is and about the effect that it has on our democracy. This is a subject close to my heart. As I have mentioned, I served in the military, and nobody is so much affected by the decisions of this House as my former colleagues. The decisions that colleagues sat in the Chamber have made and will make will have a direct impact on their lives. Those decisions could send them to dangerous places to do dangerous things. Indeed, some of my former colleagues in the armed forces have not come back. I would like us all to take a moment now to remember Corporal Liam Riley, who grew up in Killamarsh in my constituency and lost his life in Afghanistan. Lest we forget. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”]

It is of deep concern to me when I see that the number of people voting has diminished over the past few years; that so many people up and down the country see politics no longer as the mechanism by which we govern ourselves and bring the change that we want for our communities but as something done by some other people in some other place for the benefit of some other people. It is our duty to ensure that we leave this precious democracy that we have inherited in a better place than where we found it and that we show everybody that a vote for an MP matters, that a vote for a Government matters, and that a vote for democracy matters. That is how we can make the difference in the small towns and villages that make up places such as my constituency of North East Derbyshire.

Finally, there is a piece of advice that I would like to commend to the House. Over the summer, I had the privilege of meeting Clay Cross air cadets. As I take my place in the House, I commend their motto, “Acta non verba”—deeds, not words. We can all agree that that is a good motto to have as a Member of Parliament, and indeed for the Government.

[Mr Speaker]

Excellent.