Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 7

Julian Smith Excerpts

Monday 30th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Julian Smith)]

I beg to move,

That this House takes note of and approves the Report pursuant to Section 3(14) of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 - Historical Institutional Abuse, which was laid before this House on Wednesday 4 September.

On 4 September, I laid a number of reports before the House in line with my obligations under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019. Parliamentary business pressures meant that some of those reports were not debated earlier this month, but I am pleased to stand before the House today to underscore my commitment to make progress on these issues.

The reports emphasise what colleagues on both sides of the House have known for some time: the restoration of the Executive and the Assembly is of vital importance to the people of Northern Ireland. That is my top priority and I will continue to work with the Northern Ireland parties to meet that objective.

Without an Executive, the people of Northern Ireland have seen the quality of their public services decline and decisions that affect their day-to-day lives kicked into the long grass.

[Carolyn Harris (Swansea East) (Lab)]

Given that the current political situation in Northern Ireland is preventing the children’s funeral fund from being introduced, can I ask that the Secretary of State consider acting directly to allow that to happen, so that bereaved parents there may benefit from the fund like the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Julian Smith]

My understanding is that a number of councils in Northern Ireland have put in place measures to deal with the issue, but as with many other issues that we are debating today, the absence of an Executive at Stormont is affecting all sorts of decisions, including that one.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I want to support the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris), whose campaign has been hugely encouraging and personal to her. It has had a huge impact across the United Kingdom, and there is the prize of financial assistance for those who have been bereaved of young loved ones, of children in their family. I know that she has engaged with the permanent secretary in the Department for Communities, and rightly so. I know that the response has been positive, but that they look for political agreement through all the parties in Northern Ireland. Perhaps that is something that the Secretary of State could do. As he will outline regarding this historical institutional abuse report, where there is a need for political agreement, the will is there. He could bring the local parties together and indicate to the Department for Communities that there is full support for the roll-out of this much-needed scheme.

[Julian Smith]

I agree with my hon. Friend’s summary of the work undertaken by the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on this issue. I would be very happy to meet her and others to discuss it. It is, again, up to the Northern Ireland Assembly, but let us meet and see how we can work further to move things forward.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Normally there is another contingent in this House that is very interested in a one dimensional aspect of things to do with Northern Ireland. The Secretary of State must be aware of the 850 medical practitioners—doctors, nurses and midwives—who have written publicly about their absolute outcry at the failure regarding the decision of this House to impose abortion regulations in Northern Ireland, abortion regulations that cannot be met. That has put undue pressure on GP services, nursing staff and doctors’ staff. What is he going to do about that to protect our doctors and nurses in Northern Ireland?

[Julian Smith]

If I can, I will come to my hon. Friend’s point slightly later in my remarks.

Since my appointment in July, I have met public servants from a range of sectors who are doing an incredible job in the absence of support from local political leaders at Stormont, but they cannot of course take the proactive decisions that are needed on public services, the economy or the areas that we have already heard about in today’s debate. If we cannot secure the restoration of an Executive, we will pursue the decision-making powers that are needed at the earliest opportunity. In addition to the reporting requirements, the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 requires the UK Parliament to introduce laws on same-sex marriage and opposite-sex civil partnerships, abortion and victims payments. This House has spoken, and the duty to legislate will come into effect if the Executive are not back up and running before 21 October. My Department will shortly begin an awareness campaign to ensure that women and citizens across Northern Ireland are clear as to how we plan to proceed to regulate for these new legal duties.

I recognise that these are sensitive issues, and this Government’s preference is that they are taken forward by a restored Assembly and Executive, but to those who now lobby me and others in Government to somehow change the law I say that the only way for these laws to be changed and shaped in the best interests of Northern Ireland is for the Northern Ireland party leaders to form an Executive and get back into government. To that end, following the frustratingly slow pace over the summer caused by a range of factors, I will this week work urgently with the Northern Ireland parties and the Irish Government to do everything I can to break the logjam and to get Stormont up and running. The time for that is now. The party leaders need to show leadership and do the right thing for the people of Northern Ireland.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Already, frustratingly, the Secretary of State has fallen into the trap that so many others have fallen into by spreading the blame for the non-existence of the Executive in Northern Ireland across all the party leaders. Will he accept and publicly state in this House today that the only party leader opposing and stopping the formation of the Executive in Northern Ireland is the leader of Sinn Féin?

--- Later in debate ---

[Julian Smith]

I honestly do not think that it is productive for me to get involved in pointing any fingers. I think I stated earlier in my speech that I view the lack of progress as being down to a variety of factors, and I now want to be as proactive as possible in moving back to getting the Assembly up and running, as do the Irish Government and many parties, including the Democratic Unionist party and others.

[Ian Paisley]

The Secretary of State must know that his words, as they are spoken from the Dispatch Box today, sound like a punishment to every single party in Northern Ireland except Sinn Féin. That is the only party holding us up in getting back into the Assembly, yet we are all being punished, even by what he says.

[Julian Smith]

I am happy to restate that I do not think that any one party or any particular issue has held things up, but it is time that we move on. I call on each party to play its part in getting Stormont up and running, and I hope and expect that they will.

On the matter of historical institutional abuse, I want to say first that victims in Northern Ireland have shown incredible courage and dignity through their engagement with the Hart inquiry and their campaign for redress. Without their willingness to speak up about the trauma of what happened to them, we would not have been able to forge a path from the inquiry to the consultation on the draft legislation, and to the present position where there is a commitment to introducing a historical institutional abuse Bill in Westminster by the end of the year in the absence of a Northern Ireland Executive. I know that colleagues will join me in restating today our collective determination to see progress made in delivering redress to the victims as soon as possible.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Since the Prime Minister has refused to rule out proroguing Parliament again and seems hellbent on a swift general election, it would help the victims of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland, who will be particularly interested in this debate, if the Secretary of State were to lay out a realistic timetable for the legislation to go through all stages, so that compensation can be paid to them. They have been enormously patient. They have suffered too long, they have waited too long and they deserve compensation. When will that be?

[Julian Smith]

I will talk in my speech about how we hope to make progress.

On the Floor of the House in July, the Government made plain their commitment to introducing legislation in the absence of a Northern Ireland Executive. Much progress has been made by my officials, working together with the Northern Ireland civil service to prepare all the necessary materials to do just that. On 4 September, I laid a report that sets out the progress that has been made in implementing the recommendations in the historical institutional abuse inquiry report. The House will have noted in that report that the inquiry published its findings and recommendations in January 2017. The collapse of the Northern Ireland Executive in that month has meant that the implementation of many of the recommendations has been delayed.

We should take a moment to remember that during his work on this very considerable report Sir Anthony Hart, who sadly passed away in July, showed immense compassion, empathy and determination to make a difference to the lives of victims. The inquiry he led uncovered evidence of systematic physical, sexual and emotional abuse of children in institutional care, as well as neglect and unacceptable practices in children’s homes. Thanks to Sir Anthony’s commitment, focus and sensitivity, victims finally had a voice after so many years of suffering. As one of the prominent campaigners for redress remarked,

“It was Sir Anthony who believed in victims and it was Sir Anthony who delivered the truth when others failed.”

The Executive Office is to be commended for the progress made in the absence of Northern Ireland Ministers. It prepared draft legislation in 2018 and undertook a consultation exercise which concluded in March 2019. It was with the benefit of that progress that the Northern Ireland political parties were able to discuss in detail the implementation proposals for a commissioner for survivors of institutional child abuse and a redress scheme. It is worth noting that all political parties in Northern Ireland have been supportive of the Bill. The discussions between the Northern Ireland parties on the legislation and the policy decisions required to finalise it demonstrate that there is a genuine will to reach agreement. The resulting Bill was provided by the Northern Ireland Office on 18 July and has been the focus of work in my Department to make ready everything necessary to introduce the Bill at Westminster. It is a complex Bill and those documents have required significant input from legal advisers and policy officials.

The UK Government commitment to introducing the Bill by the end of the year in the absence of a restored Northern Ireland Executive remains resolute. To answer directly the question from my hon. Friend the Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), I hope that we will have a resolution in the coming weeks.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State recognise the frustration and distress that victims will feel when they see the Chamber so empty today, given that previous Northern Irish legislation has been rushed through all its stages in one day, and given that the last time the Executive Bill was in this place the House was packed with Members hellbent on using it as a tool for delaying Brexit? Will he commit, when he gets a date for the Bill, to rushing it through in the same manner as other pieces of Northern Irish legislation earlier this year?

[Julian Smith]

There are some complex issues that need debate. I know that my hon. Friend has stood up steadfastly and consistently for victims of child abuse in Northern Ireland, and I hope that we will be able to introduce the Bill in short order.

[Lady Hermon]

The Secretary of State has just said that he hopes the Bill will be introduced “in short order”. I do not know quite what that translates to. Have he and his very hard-working and diligent officials given any thought to introducing a statutory instrument, rather than going through all the stages of a Bill, to establish an administrative scheme whereby an initial payment of compensation—let us say of £10,000 or £7,000—could be awarded to victims? They cannot be asked to wait any longer. They are dying, they are most unwell, and the anxiety and the waiting are not helping them. Will he commit to that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Julian Smith]

I commit to introducing the Bill in the coming weeks, and I am confident that we can do that. I accept my hon. Friend’s point that the age and the wellbeing of many victims means that we also have to consider how we get money to them at the earliest opportunity.

[Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for his commitment to trying to move this forward. I entirely agree with what the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) said about there being no reason why this legislation cannot be passed very quickly, given the way Brexit legislation is now being put through in a matter of hours and given the way abortion law has been changed in a matter of hours without consultation. Why can we not do this Bill in a matter of hours, since there is cross-party support and unanimity across the board? I gently say to him: we have heard a lot about the absence of the Executive, but he knows from conversations he has had with us and other Ministers that the Government are also responsible for the lack of progress. They could have taken action themselves in the House but they refused to do so, for political reasons. They may have been well-intentioned reasons, but a deliberate policy decision was taken to stymy all the things that needed to be done in Northern Ireland. He is perfectly within his rights to share some of the blame among the political parties in Northern Ireland, but he also has to take some responsibility himself for the failure of the Government to take action over two years of doing nothing.

[Julian Smith]

My right hon. Friend knows that the Government, like the previous Government, view taking more decisions from Westminster with great caution. We respect the Good Friday agreement and want to encourage local institutions to take the decisions required.

[Maria Caulfield]

Can I gently remind the Secretary of State that periods of this abuse—between 1922 and 1995—were periods of direct rule, when this place was responsible for those children, and so while there is not an Assembly in place, this place also has some responsibility to ensure that those victims get compensation?

[Julian Smith]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Again, we need to encourage Stormont to get up and running and we need to deliver on this legislation, and I believe that we can achieve both.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way; he is being generous with his time. We want this legislation to progress as quickly as possible, but it has to be watertight and robust, and it has to have proper scrutiny, because otherwise it will be challenged. The quickest way to get redress for the victims is to have proper, robust legislation that has been properly scrutinised.

[Julian Smith]

I thank my predecessor for those remarks, and I will take this opportunity to pay tribute to her for her relentless work to get the legislation to this stage. I am acutely aware that she has played a really important part in getting us where we are. She is right; we need to move things on, but we need to be as careful as possible in how we do so.

On 23 August I met representatives of victim and survivor groups, and I intend to meet them again later this week. These people’s lives have been blighted by unforgivable, horrendous acts, yet they have engaged patiently and respectfully with politicians and with the legislative process. It is imperative that we do all within our power to support the Bill so that they can finally receive a measure of redress.

This House is well aware of the stain of child abuse that shames our country. It took place in every corner and it went unchecked for decades. The Hart report outlines starkly the degrading acts perpetrated by those responsible for caring for vulnerable children at Kincora boys home, Nazareth House and Lissue Hospital. In fact, there were only two institutions across Northern Ireland where evidence of systemic abuse was not found. In most instances it was the poorest and most vulnerable young people who were affected, and in some instances the same vulnerable children were then sent to unsuitable homes in Australia, with their whereabouts unknown to their family members.

[Gavin Robinson]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for allowing me to intervene once again. He mentioned Kincora boys home, which is in my constituency. Although the report that he has laid before us today highlights the recommendation that there should be a suitable memorial to those who suffered abuse, Kincora boys home remains a sepulchral reminder of the tragedy that occurred in my constituency and in institutions across Northern Ireland. Five years ago I stood in Kincora boys home with victims, and they have continually called for it to be razed to the ground, yet just last week Belfast City Council felt it appropriate to say that the building should be retained because of its townscape character. Does he understand the anguish of abuse victims? One of the victims I stood with back then has since died. They want to see this tragic reminder of their horrible past razed to the ground once and for all.

[Julian Smith]

My hon. Friend speaks powerfully of the symbolism of the buildings, and it is important that we recognise that in this debate. I would be interested in discussing his proposals further in due course.

We can ask no more of victims. We can ask no more of the inquiry. The policy officials have prepared the policy and the lawyers have prepared the draft law. Now it is time for us, as political representatives, to act. It is therefore my sincere hope and belief that colleagues across the House will support us as we seek to deliver this legislation in the coming weeks.

I thank all colleagues for the debate that we have had so far, and I look forward to hearing further contributions. Obviously we are debating some of the most sensitive issues that this House can scrutinise. I will do everything I can as Secretary of State to deliver the Bill and address many of the issues that we have heard about today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Julian Smith]

I thank the House for what has been an exceptionally moving debate. I pay specific tribute to the survivors’ groups—SAVIA, Survivors (North West), the Rosetta Trust and Survivors Together, among others—who will be watching tonight and I think will be clear about the priorities of this House and the people who have attended this debate to move things forward. I have heard the desire to get this Bill introduced at the earliest opportunity. As I have mentioned, I really hope and expect that we can get it into the Queen’s Speech. I really want to get it in as soon as possible. I heard the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) and others about the need for speed in getting this moving as quickly as possible, and I want to ensure that we do that.

The hon. Member for Belfast South (Emma Little Pengelly) spoke passionately about the role of officials—David Sterling and the civil service—in getting us this far. I again pay tribute to them. The hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) and the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) spoke about getting money from the institutions that have played their part in these horrendous crimes. I would say, go after them and get the money—let us go after them hard.

The hon. Member for North Antrim, among others, spoke about the need to get the Assembly up and running, and expressed his concerns about that. We all have to do everything we can to get things up and running in the coming days and weeks. That is important for the issue of abortion, which I believe is best dealt with by the Executive in Northern Ireland for the people of Northern Ireland, but it is also in the best interests of all citizens across Northern Ireland to get decisions done and political decisions made.

[Lady Hermon]

Will the Secretary of State reply to one specific question? For the victims of historical institutional abuse, will he give a commitment—a clear guarantee—that the legislation to compensate them for the dreadful abuse that they suffered as children in Northern Ireland will be on the statute book before 31 October? It is a straight question and I would like a straight answer.

[Julian Smith]

I think I have given an indication on timing. I am no longer a business manager. I am concerned, in this whole debate, to ensure that I do not make commitments that I cannot deliver. The commitment I have made is that I have written to business managers. I hope that this Bill will be in the Queen’s Speech. I do not want to go further than that, but I will continue to do everything I can to push my colleagues to get it introduced in the coming days and weeks.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House takes note of and approves the Report pursuant to Section 3(14) of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019—Historical Institutional Abuse, which was laid before this House on Wednesday 4 September.

Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 Section 3(2)

Julian Smith Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Julian Smith)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the Report pursuant to Sections 3(1), 3(6), 3(7), 3(8), 3(9) and 3(10) of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019 - regarding Executive formation; transparency of political donations; higher education and a Derry university; presumption of non-prosecution; Troubles prosecution guidance; and abortion law review, which was laid before this House on Wednesday 4 September.

Mr Speaker, may I pay tribute to you following your statement earlier today on your tenure as Speaker of this House? Despite the odd moment of friction during my time as Government Chief Whip, I would like to add my voice to those who have underlined the strength and power of your service to both your constituents and this House, particularly the work you did to establish the new Education Centre.

On 4 September, I laid a number of reports before the House in line with my obligations under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019. Those reports underscore the vital importance of restoring the Northern Ireland Executive. This is my first priority because, without an Executive, the people of Northern Ireland have seen the quality of their public services decline and decisions kicked into the long grass. They deserve better. Since July, I have met public servants from a range of sectors who are doing an incredible job in the absence of support from their political leaders, but they cannot take the vital decisions needed on public services or make those crucial interventions in the economy.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

I am very grateful indeed to the Secretary of State for allowing me to intervene so early. May I just say that I am extremely disappointed and annoyed that the motion to discuss the historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland was not even moved this evening? By proroguing Parliament tonight, the Prime Minister has wilfully and deliberately deprived the victims of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland of a 90-minute debate, sending out a clear signal that they do not even merit a 90-minute debate. It is appalling behaviour. I ask the Secretary of State to demand that the Prime Minister comes to Northern Ireland, sits in a meeting, looks the victims of historical institutional abuse in the face, and explains to them why he is so disrespectful and discourteous of the hurt and suffering that they have had to endure.

[Julian Smith]

To be fair to the business managers tonight, there has been a major challenge with the number of unexpected and emergency debates, but I am now coming to the issue of HIA that the hon. Lady raises. In doing so, I apologise to the House for the change in business. It in no way diminishes how seriously I am progressing the issues or affects the commitments I have made.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I understand what the Secretary of State has said about the business managers. However, he cannot get away that easily from the business statement that was made in this House on Thursday. The first and second priorities on that list, as handed out to Members, were to do with the victims of historical institutional abuse, as the second priority was victims’ payments in relation to that matter. The matters to which the Secretary of State intends to speak this evening were fifth and sixth on the list that we were given. Why has he—as the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) has indicated—set aside these very important issues that we were promised from that Dispatch Box would be dealt with expeditiously when we came back in September?

[Mr Speaker]

Let me thank the Secretary of State for his very gracious personal remarks, which mean a great deal to me.

[Julian Smith]

The victims of historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland have shown incredible courage and dignity through their engagement with the Hart inquiry and throughout their campaign for redress. I know that colleagues, as has been shown in the interventions I have just taken, will join me today in restating our collective determination to see progress made in delivering redress to those victims as soon as possible.

On 23 August, I had the honour of meeting representatives from the victims’ and survivors’ groups. These people’s lives have been blighted by unforgivable, horrendous acts, yet they have continued to engage patiently and respectfully with politicians and the legislative process. We can ask no more of victims. We can ask no more of the Hart inquiry. The inquiry has been undertaken. Officials have prepared the policy. The lawyers have prepared the draft law, and I have asked that this be included in the Queen’s Speech as a matter of urgent priority.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

On Thursday in business questions—this is why it is disappointing that this is not being debated today—we heard that the Secretary of State committed not only that it would be in the Queen’s Speech but that the legislation would be brought forward to the end of the year. That is the most important thing—that the legislation actually comes forward.

[Julian Smith]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention.

The EF Act requires new laws in areas including same-sex marriage, opposite-sex civil partnerships, abortion, and victims’ payments. These are sensitive devolved issues, and this Government’s preference is that they are taken forward by a restored Executive. Again, I am sorry that we have not been able to discuss the important issue of victims’ payments in the motion that was not moved. Across these issues, this House has spoken, and these duties to legislate will come into effect if the Executive is not back up and running in the next few weeks. Despite the truncated debate today, I underscore my assurance to the House that I will continue to uphold the letter and the spirit of my obligations under the EF Act in full. I will update Parliament on these issues in the next Session, and indeed will say a bit more on abortion law in Northern Ireland later in my speech, but I now turn to each of the issues listed for debate today.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

What can this House do to strengthen the Secretary of State’s elbow in discussion with the business managers as to what is going to be included in the Queen’s Speech? I associate myself with the remarks of other hon. Members with regard to the victims of historical abuse. May I urge him to take this message to the business managers? Many of those who suffered that horrible abuse were placed in that situation by the state. The state let them down then; the state now looks as though it is letting them down still further. That is not good enough and we will not put up with it.

[Julian Smith]

I am confident that the business managers will look very favourably on such a Bill for the Queen’s Speech.

Northern Ireland has been without devolved government since January 2017. In that time, we have seen hospital waiting lists get longer, public services deteriorate, and frustration in Northern Ireland grow. The issue of Brexit has made the need for a reformed Executive ever more urgent. It is clear that Northern Ireland’s interests at this time are best served by a restored Executive in place and ready to take the necessary decisions.

The then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, my right hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire Moorlands (Karen Bradley), started the latest round of cross-party talks, following on from the work of my right hon. Friend the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire). I pay tribute to their tireless work. I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May) for all that she did to drive for Stormont to be up and running during her time as Prime Minister. I am also in no doubt, from the work we have done together since he became Prime Minister, that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is personally committed to the swift conclusion of these talks.

The same issues have been discussed in cross-party talks for over two years. Some aspects of those talks are very close to resolution, and I believe the parties could agree swiftly on a programme for government, on measures to increase transparency, and on the sustainability of the institutions—although gaps do remain between the two main parties on rights, culture and identity. However, both the UK and Irish Governments share the view that, notwithstanding the importance of these issues, these topics can be resolved in short order.

Political parties across the spectrum must now realise that the lack of political leadership has left public servants bearing the load for far too long. I have seen this at first hand when speaking to the principal at Ashfield Boys High School in east Belfast and to doctors and nurses at Musgrove Park Hospital, and in my many meetings with all those who serve so bravely in the Police Service of Northern Ireland. There can be no more excuses: we simply have to get the Assembly and the Executive up and running. So the UK Government, working closely with the Irish Government in accordance with the three-stranded approach, will now intensify our efforts to put forward compromise solutions to the parties. I urge the parties to make the most of the days ahead and to work with me and the Tánaiste to do what is best for the people of Northern Ireland. Whatever the outcome of that process—whether I can update on positive or negative developments—I will publish a report on or before 9 October. If I have to report that those efforts were not successful, my next update to the House will set out the next steps to ensure adequate governance in Northern Ireland and the protection of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement.

[Vernon Coaker (Gedling) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has just made a commitment that he will, in the next Session or whenever it may be, come forward with a report. I say gently to the Secretary of State that I am disappointed. A number of motions have been struck off, and for quite understandable reasons, but there is a massive amount to discuss. However we go forward in the next few months, I ask the Secretary of State or whoever holds that position to consider how we in this House of Commons and this Chamber can more properly give Northern Ireland the time it deserves to discuss these matters of major importance. The people of Northern Ireland need to hear that message. We should be talking about this for much longer than we are this evening.

[Julian Smith]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I pay tribute to the work he has done during his career for the citizens of Northern Ireland, but I would say that two SO24 debates today have given the business managers a major challenge.

The issue of transparency of donations to Northern Ireland parties is one which this Government take very seriously. We are rightly proud that we were able to secure agreement of the Northern Ireland parties and bring forward legislation to open up all donations from July 2017 to full public scrutiny. I am aware that many would like to see that transparency go further and apply retrospectively to 2014. The Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2014 provides that greater transparency could be introduced from 2014 at some point in the future. However, greater transparency must be weighed against possible risks to donors. Retrospective transparency should not threaten intimidation to those who have donated.

[Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)]

I listened to what the Secretary of State had to say on political donations. In terms of what is in the report, he is absolutely right—that is the position—but the report misses the fundamental distinction and difference that needs to be resolved in Northern Ireland, which is that foreign donations are permissible. Northern Ireland remains the only part of the United Kingdom where foreign donations, corrupting our politics, are permissible. Will he take steps to close that?

[Julian Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I am aware that he and his party have strong views on this issue, and we are looking at all elements of this policy.

While many in this House have called for retrospection, we must not forget that the last time the parties in Northern Ireland were formally consulted on this, in 2017, there was only consensus for transparency going forward. The published data now available as a result of the legislation is a starting point for a review to consider what further transparency may be appropriate.

I will turn now to higher education. Northern Ireland has made great strides in higher education provision, with two world-renowned universities—Queen’s and Ulster University—attracting students from all over the globe. While the Northern Ireland Department for the Economy has policy responsibility for higher education in Northern Ireland, universities are independent of government. As such, it is for a university, whether prospective or existing, to decide where to base any new campus.

No application has been made from any organisation to establish a university whose main campus is in Derry/Londonderry. The Government are aware that Ulster University is considering the development of a graduate medical school to be located in Derry/Londonderry, and that proposal features in Derry City and Strabane District Council’s economic regeneration plans for the region. Education is key to securing a prosperous future for Northern Ireland, and it is right that we focus on where the current skills gaps lie and how they can be met.

[Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I had the great honour of visiting Derry recently. The University of Ulster has been dilly-dallying and delaying about the medical school at the Magee campus. The city needs that medical school, which will help immensely with not only its regeneration but the whole peace process. What guarantees can the Secretary of State give that Derry will get that medical school?

[Julian Smith]

On my last visit to Derry/Londonderry, I spoke about the medical campus, and we are working to ensure that we do everything we can in the Northern Ireland Office to support it. Again, however, we need the Executive—Stormont—back up and running to make sure the money flows to that campus.

This Government are unequivocal in our admiration of the armed forces, who served with heroism and bravery to protect the people of Northern Ireland and whose sacrifice has ensured that terrorism would never succeed. The Government will never forget the debt of gratitude we owe them. Providing better support for veterans is a major priority for this Government, and the creation of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is an example of the strength of our commitment.

I want to be clear: I absolutely recognise the sentiment and the principle underpinning these amendments, and I recognise the strength of feeling across the House on this matter. We have been clear that the current system for dealing with the legacy of Northern Ireland’s past is not working well, and this needs to change. As the Prime Minister said recently in this House, it is

“common ground”

across all Benches that it is simply

“not right that former soldiers should face unfair”—[Official Report, 25 July 2019; Vol. 663, c. 1467]—

and repeated investigations, with no new evidence, many years after the events in question. Two very important further amendments have been submitted, and I want to address these in turn.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I apologise for intervening so soon after entering the Chamber, but as the Secretary of State has just referred to my amendment, I will take that liberty. Will he just acknowledge one thing? When the Defence Committee recommends a qualified statute of limitations, in the absence of compelling new evidence, on the question of the pursuit of people long after the events concerned, does he accept that that is not the same as an amnesty and should not be ruled out in the same way as people do rule out an amnesty?

[Julian Smith]

I want to take care about prejudging the work that the Government have put in place, cross-Government. As my right hon. Friend is aware, the Prime Minister has set a new focus on this issue, and I am sure he will be inputting into that. I will be working, along with the Ministry of Defence and the Cabinet Office, to move that issue forward.

I absolutely recognise the sentiment and the principle underpinning the amendments on legacy, and I recognise the strength of feeling across this House on this matter. We have been clear that the current system for dealing with the legacy is not working well, and we will move forward in the ways I have discussed. While we want to find a better way to address these issues, to do so through the presumption of non-prosecution would pose a range of challenges and may not provide a complete solution to the issues at play.

A presumption of non-prosecution in the absence of compelling new evidence is likely to need to be applied to everyone involved in troubles-related incidents, including former terrorists. However, implementing these provisions would not remove the obligations under domestic criminal law and international obligations under the European convention on human rights for independent investigations of serious allegations. With regards to troubles prosecution guidance, hon. Members will of course be aware that criminal investigations are carried out independently of the Government. Prosecutorial decisions and the guidance that underpins them are devolved matters in Northern Ireland.

[Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

I apologise for interrupting the Secretary of State in mid-flow, and I know people want to get on. However, as someone who served over in Northern Ireland—and following the question from our right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), which he stepped around—may I repeat this back to him? Even though he is reiterating the issues about criminal prosecutions and other jurisdictions, the point still remains, as my right hon. Friend said—this is what people have been asking for—that we should not just bring somebody in on the basis of a trawl in the hope that something new will turn up. The issue is that having to have compelling evidence to pursue an individual is critical. That does not impact on any criminal activities or any effective future prosecutions, because they would face the same issue.

[Julian Smith]

I think my right hon. Friend, who has spoken very persuasively on this issue for many years, makes some important points, but I return to the fact that the Government are looking at all these issues in our cross-Whitehall review.

In Northern Ireland, just as in England and Wales, prosecutorial decisions are made independently of Government. The Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland is not under the superintendence of the Attorney General for Northern Ireland. The Director of Public Prosecutions has a consultative relationship with the Attorney General for Northern Ireland, but the former cannot be compelled by the latter. This feature of the relationship between these key figures is an important component of the devolution settlement in Northern Ireland, and it is not within the UK Government’s powers to direct the Attorney General for Northern Ireland or the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland. Members will be aware that what is central in these cases is not how an individual came to have a weapon, but what they did with it, and it is for the courts, not the Government, to determine innocence and guilt.

[Emma Little Pengelly (Belfast South) (DUP)]

Does the Secretary of State accept that in Northern Ireland we have an abnormal situation, as all state-related deaths have been referred to the criminal justice system for examination? That does not happen elsewhere in the United Kingdom, so in those exceptional and abnormal circumstances, we need to find a solution to support those who served this country on the front line in Northern Ireland during the dark days of the troubles.

[Julian Smith]

I accept the hon. Lady’s point, but I return to the fact that the ways to achieve the sorts of things that she is discussing are much more complex.

The Government are committed to finding practical, sustainable and workable solutions to establish an improved system that works better for all and ensures that soldiers and former police officers who risk their lives to maintain peace and order and to keep others safe are treated fairly.

On abortion law, if an Executive is not formed by 21 October, the Government have a duty to make the necessary regulations. As I have set out, it is the Government’s preference that any questions of reform on these important, sensitive and devolved issues are considered in the right place by a restored Executive and a functioning Assembly. However, we recognise that a majority of MPs want to ensure that reform happens if we continue to see an absence of devolved government. From 22 October, the specific criminal law in Northern Ireland will fall away, and a criminal moratorium on prosecutions will come into place. I have instructed my Department, working closely with the Department of Health and Social Care and the Government Equalities Office, to develop an appropriate new legal framework that will be in operation by 31 March 2020 if that proves to be the case.

[Ian Paisley]

Does the Secretary of State realise that the legacy of what he has announced is complete and total legal chaos from 21 October to March next year? There will be no regulatory framework in place, and anything goes when it comes to the termination of the lives of innocent children. Is that the legacy that he wants? Is that the blood on the hands that he wants?

[Julian Smith]

I shall return that directness to the hon. Gentleman. If the parties get their act together, there can be a Northern Ireland solution to this issue. The challenge for the Government is that there was a free vote in the House that, under law, we need to respect.

As part of that, we have undertaken work to analyse the range of information and examples, both international and domestic, on these reform issues, because we have committed to consult carefully on this sensitive matter, and I shall update the House as soon as possible.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Does the Secretary of State accept that while it may be for the parties in Northern Ireland to try to get the Assembly up and running again, there is every incentive on those who pushed Members of Parliament to put through this draconian abortion legislation not to get the Assembly up and running before the law comes into force? He cannot run away and hide behind the statement, “It is up to the parties in Northern Ireland,” as one party that is essential to the setting up of the Administration does not want the responsibility of giving the opportunity to the Assembly to overturn the legislation.

[Julian Smith]

I accept that these are highly emotive and sensitive issues. I accept that the House, having spoken, needs, wants and demands that we act. The consultation that my Department will put in place will be extremely sensitive to many of the issues that have been outlined tonight, but I return to the fact that I will do everything that I can in my power to get the Executive up and running because I strongly believe that for this issue and for many other issues that I have discussed tonight, getting Stormont up and running is the best way to address these matters.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I am very interested in the consultation that will take place. Will the Secretary of State confirm that organisations such as the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the Royal College of Midwives, the Royal College of General Practitioners and the Royal College of Nursing will be consulted as part of those deliberations?

[Julian Smith]

They will be, but again I want and hope that we can get this issue addressed within Northern Ireland and by Northern Ireland political leaders.

I welcome the opportunity to open these issues up for debate in the House. The range of issues, largely on devolved matters, demonstrates how important it is to restore the Executive. That is why I will strive, over the coming days and weeks, to encourage the political parties to go back into the Executive and to start working for the people of Northern Ireland again as soon as possible.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tony Lloyd]

I have some difficult news for the right hon. Gentleman. The disillusionment in democratic institutions stretches across all communities in Northern Ireland, including in his constituency. I talk to those people. Those who want to see Stormont working are desperately worried that the politicians—all politicians from all backgrounds—are not making the necessary progress.

I will conclude, because other Members want to speak. I want to finish by putting some specific points to the Minister. Prorogation has made it difficult for this House to make the decisions it will have to make. We will come back here on 14 October, and between then and 31 October, if we have no deal, we will have 11 sitting days. Some of those will be taken up by the Queen’s Speech. The Secretary of State rightly promised the House regular updates. The first will take place before the House returns. We need those updates to be meaningful to reassure not simply this House but the people of Northern Ireland that there is a plan and a strategy to move this forward. We need to know—the Opposition will co-operate with the Government on this—that there is the capacity to make the legal decisions that will be necessary to move the situation forward, but they have to be the right decisions and there has to be dialogue across the Chamber and an exchange of information.

There also has to be—this is really important—a maintenance of the dialogue between Dublin and London, so that when we take action here we know there will be support from the Government in Dublin so that people from all communities can be reassured that a concerted effort is being made to bring this situation to an end.

[Julian Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the remarks that he has just made, which I think were very responsible. I hope not to have to come back to discuss these matters with him, but I want to put on record my thanks for his comments.

[Tony Lloyd]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State, because I am confident that he meant what he has said. I hope that, between us, we can see a move away from a no-deal Brexit, but in the event that that does not happen, we must ensure that we work together to avoid a catastrophe that would be disastrous not only for the economy but for the people and the future of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland

Julian Smith Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland if he will respond to the urgent question of which I have given prior notice?

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Julian Smith)]

First, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his constructive work over the summer on a range of issues, including those relating to Harland and Wolff. Secondly, may I remind Members that I have been held captive in the Whips Office for over three years and that this is therefore my first Dispatch Box appearance? I have to be honest and say that I am very grateful not to be the Government’s current Chief Whip.

As is my duty under the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Act 2019, I will publish a report on or before 9 October to update on progress. Throughout the period ahead, I will be doing everything I can to support and encourage talks to succeed. Democratically elected politicians in Northern Ireland are best placed to take the decisions needed to support hospitals, schools and the police. I have seen the excellent work of civil servants in Northern Ireland over the last few weeks, but of course they cannot take the proactive decisions that are needed on public services or the economy in the run-up to 31 October. If we cannot secure the restoration of an Executive, we will pursue the decision-making powers that are needed at the earliest opportunity.

[Tony Lloyd]

I welcome the Secretary of State to his role and his appearance at the Dispatch Box. He will know that Northern Ireland is in a unique position in the United Kingdom: it has no devolved Government, nor does the Secretary of State or any member of the UK Government have powers to deliver the kind of transformation that is needed. I know from my conversations with senior members of the Northern Ireland civil service that they are frustrated by their inability to make the decisions—whether on health, education or the issues that we now face—that Northern Ireland so desperately needs.

In that context, we face the Prorogation of Parliament and the possibility—I accept it is a possibility—of a no-deal Brexit and a general election coming fast down the track. The Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Act 2018 will expire some time in October, and I have a number of specific questions that I need to put to the Secretary of State about the good governance of Northern Ireland.

The first examines the question of Prorogation. We know that we face the possibility of Prorogation next week and that that provides enormous challenges in terms of governance. Yes, if we can see Stormont back in operation, that will achieve what we need, but does the Secretary of State accept that there are real dangers during a period of Prorogation, in terms of the governance of Northern Ireland? Will he tell the House precisely when he was consulted about Prorogation? What advice did he give to the Prime Minister and other members of the Government?

Turning to a no-deal Brexit, the now Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), told the House before the summer that in the circumstances that it “voted for no deal”, or in any case, if there were no deal, “we”—the Government—

“would have to start formal engagement with the Irish Government about…providing strengthened decision making in the event of that outcome. That would include the real possibility of imposing a form of direct rule.”—[Official Report, 13 March 2019; Vol. 656, c. 391.]

The Foreign Secretary told the “Today” programme that direct rule would require legislation and made it quite clear that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland would need to follow that up. Does the Secretary of State accept that some form of direct governance—of direct accountability—would be necessary in the event of a no-deal Brexit? Can he tell us what steps he is taking?

Finally, in any part of the United Kingdom we expect the security of our people to be paramount. There will be some real questions about making sure that the Police Service of Northern Ireland has the resources that it needs. Will the Secretary of State tell the House how he intends to make sure that the allocation of those resources ensures that the PSNI has the resource base and numbers that it needs? If this were your constituency, Mr Speaker, or Rochdale, Skipton and Ripon, Wales or Scotland, this situation would not be allowed to happen. I hope that the Secretary of State shares my view that this cannot be allowed to frustrate and put Northern Ireland in a position of discomfort, or worse.

[Julian Smith]

The hon. Gentleman asks about dangers. I think I have been very honest with the House that powers are needed to ensure, not only in the current situation, where civil servants across Northern Ireland are making difficult decisions without political direction, but obviously in the run-up either to a deal or no deal, that the very tricky decisions can be made, and I am sure that those will have to be made at pace.

The hon. Gentleman asks about the legal advice on Prorogation. It was not something that I or my Department was involved in. That was a matter for the Attorney General. As Parliament is aware, the Cabinet was updated shortly before the decision was announced.

On what happens if the talks do not succeed in time, again, I have been clear that we need to have powers at the earliest opportunity because some of the challenges that will emerge will do so fairly soon, but we have to operate in the environment governed by the Good Friday agreement. On that point, certainly in the discussions that I am having with the Irish Foreign Secretary on the talks, the relationship is very positive.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the PSNI. As he will be aware, the PSNI has gained about £20 million of additional funding. However, when we look at how we direct funding and make those decisions, we see that, to ensure that a large and important part of our country is not left ungoverned at a difficult time, we do need powers to be in place.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

I echo entirely the concerns of the shadow Secretary of State. My right hon. Friend’s commitment to Northern Ireland is not in question, but the impression coming out of some sections of the Government is that Northern Ireland could easily now be collateral damage, so may I ask him a specific question? He referred to the Attorney General’s legal advice on Prorogation, which he will have seen. Did it make specific reference to the unique and pressing needs of Northern Ireland and how they might be attenuated as the Prime Minister set out his strategy, and if not, why not?

[Julian Smith]

It would obviously be inappropriate for me to discuss the details of that legal advice in the House, but suffice it to say that I have indicated that, to preserve the rights of citizens in Northern Ireland, we need to get Stormont up and running again or, failing that, ensure that powers are in place to protect those rights, jobs and the economy and the commitments made by the Irish and UK Governments on the Good Friday agreement.

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

The impact of no deal on the devolved nations has been well documented, with Northern Ireland at particular risk owing to the border. Reports that the Government are trying to row back from their 2017 joint report commitments are deeply concerning. Do the UK Government not see that this particular game of brinkmanship that the Prime Minister is playing could have catastrophic consequences for the people on Northern Ireland, and will the Secretary of State now commit to ensuring that no deal is taken off the table? Such moments press home more clearly than ever the need for Northern Ireland to have a functioning legislature, so what progress has been made over the summer to ensure that Stormont is reconvened at the earliest opportunity?

Finally, the Prime Minister said that he had not decided to prorogue Parliament, but we have now learned from evidence in Scotland’s Court of Session that, in reality, he had already signed off on Prorogation in his red box. Can the Secretary of State tell us why there is such a disconnect between the Prime Minister’s words and his actions?

[Julian Smith]

On the question of deal versus no deal, my job is to lead the efforts for Northern Ireland to prepare for no deal, but I could not be clearer in my mind that a deal is in the best interests of Northern Ireland. As for the talks, we have issued the report outlining what occurred over the summer. These have been at a differing pace throughout the summer. There have been good talks. The issues are important, but not insolvable. I again pay tribute to Simon Coveney and officials for the work that has been done over the summer to get us to a point where we are not far from the finishing line, if the parties want to push forward.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

I join the shadow Secretary of State in expressing concern about the impact that Prorogation may have on the people of Northern Ireland. Can my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State—I welcome him to his new post and wish him every success—ensure that during Prorogation the Government will not stop working for those who need redress, and by that I mean the victims of historical institutional sexual abuse and those who were severely physically or psychologically disabled during the troubles through no fault of their own? They need redress and they need it urgently. Can he assure me that he will deliver that?

[Julian Smith]

May I first pay tribute to my right hon. Friend, who did an exceptional job as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. She will know of the trauma that victims have suffered. It is now three years since the Hart report was published, and the work that she did means that the Bill could now be presented at the earliest opportunity. I hope that we will get that into the Queen’s Speech and ensure that we solve the issue once and for all.

[David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

In the absence of a Stormont Government, and in view of the potential difficulties arising from no deal, will the Secretary of State clarify who will make decisions during that period and tell us what discussions he has had both with the political parties and the Irish Government about the implications of direct rule?

[Julian Smith]

I strongly believe that getting the talks up and running, and getting Stormont up and running, is in the best interests of Northern Ireland and is the best route for decision making. Obviously, along with Cabinet colleagues, I am considering alternatives should that fail, but we have to try to get Stormont up and running.

[Mr David Lidington (Aylesbury) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend to his responsibilities. Does he agree that it would be frankly unconscionable for any Government to lead us into a no-deal Brexit in which the Northern Ireland civil service lacked the legal powers and authority to cope with those circumstances? Does this not point to the need for legislation to be introduced and enacted before the end of October?

[Julian Smith]

I think it is vital that, first and foremost, we get the talks up and running. If that does not work, we must establish powers to ensure that we are making all the decisions in the best possible way for the citizens of Northern Ireland.

[Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I welcome the Secretary of State and his ministerial team to their posts. We look forward to working with them in the days and weeks ahead.

Let me reiterate our commitment to getting Stormont up and running as quickly as possible, although I welcome the concentration on the need for direct decision-making powers to be taken in the event that that is not possible. As the shadow Secretary of State said, it is extremely important that Northern Ireland is not left, uniquely, in the terrible position of having no one in charge during these critical days.

Does the Secretary of State welcome the publication of remarks made by the Foreign Minister of the Irish Republic yesterday, in which he indicated that in the event of no deal there would no checks or infrastructure on the border? We should build on that, because there is room for progress towards securing a deal, which we all want.

[Julian Smith]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his kind remarks. Thankfully, the EU negotiations are not my responsibility, but I do think that a deal is in the best interests of Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)]

Everyone in the House supports the Belfast agreement, and everyone in the House would like to see the institutions up and running again, but we cannot bludgeon one party into co-operating, and in the meantime outcomes are deteriorating for our fellow citizens. The Bengoa report was published in October 2016. While he is looking at this, will the Secretary of State also consider what powers he could take to benefit every citizen in Northern Ireland?

[Julian Smith]

I know from visiting hospitals and schools that my hon. Friend is absolutely right. For too long, public servants have been having to make decisions that should have been made by politicians. I must be frank with the House. The powers that I have—the powers that are available for decision making—are extremely limited, and that is why it is a priority for us to get Stormont up and running.

[Mr Speaker]

Lady Hermon: a single sentence, I think.

[Lady Hermon (North Down) (Ind)]

Of course, Mr Speaker.

The Secretary of State—whom I warmly congratulate on his appointment, while also thanking his predecessor—will know from the very angry and concerned representations that I have already made to his office that I am extremely worried and annoyed that a statutory instrument which governs key appointments to a range of bodies in Northern Ireland—including appointments of QCs—has been put in jeopardy by Prorogation. I need a commitment, a guarantee, from the Secretary of State today that that statutory instrument will be debated in the House on Monday, or on Tuesday, but certainly before Prorogation. It affects people’s lives in Northern Ireland, and the Secretary of State has a responsibility to protect those lives.

[Julian Smith]

I hope to table a motion for the statutory instrument early next week.

[Mr David Gauke (South West Hertfordshire) (Ind)]

It is clear from what my right hon. Friend is saying that if we have a no-deal Brexit and Stormont is not up and running, to protect the rights of Northern Ireland, we need to take powers; to take powers, we need to legislate; and to legislate, the House needs to be sitting. Is it not also clear that if the House does not pass that legislation by the end of October because it has been prorogued or dissolved, the rights of the people of Northern Ireland will be detrimentally affected?

[Julian Smith]

Again, the priority has to be getting Stormont up and running. I have been honest and open to the House about the need for powers, and clearly my right hon. Friend is right that at the very heart of the need for those powers are the rights of citizens in Northern Ireland.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Is the Secretary of State sickened already by people talking up the dangers—almost cheerleading and willing on the problems instead of helping to find solutions? When will the Secretary of State be able to bring forward a report or a Bill on institutional historical abuse cases, which was promised before the recess?

[Julian Smith]

I hope we will be introducing that in the coming weeks.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that there are no circumstances, including a no-deal Brexit, under which the British Government would erect a hard border on the island of Ireland?

[Julian Smith]

We are fully committed to no hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In the Sunday papers at the weekend, there were indications that dissident republicans are contacting experienced bomb makers in the IRA to make a spectacular big bomb. What is being done to prevent dissident republicans from making contact with the bomb makers, to ensure that those bombs never happen in Northern Ireland or anywhere in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?

[Julian Smith]

The PSNI and the security services have done an exceptional job over the summer. I pay tribute to them and their families, because people are trying to kill them—that is on the increase and certainly was over the summer. I have decided to convene a weekly security meeting that includes the PSNI to make sure that in the coming weeks and months I am apprised on a regular basis and meeting those people who are leading these teams putting their lives on the line.

[Sir Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

In congratulating the new Secretary of State, may I ask him what he plans to do about stopping the relentless hounding of Army and police veterans in respect of alleged historical crimes when most of the evidence has disappeared? What is he going to do about it?

[Julian Smith]

As my hon. Friend will have seen from the report we laid yesterday and from the comments the Prime Minister has made, there has been a new cross-Government effort to ensure that we look at this issue. I know that he has raised this issue many times in this House, and I hope he welcomes the fact that the Government accept that the current situation is not working and that we need to relook at and revisit this area. I and a number of my right hon. Friends in the Cabinet are doing so and look forward to reporting to the House in due course.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Julian Smith]

The Cabinet was updated immediately before the decision; the hon. Gentleman will have to ask others about the first part of his question.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

The Northern Ireland civil service was clear that a decision to extend the welfare mitigation package was needed this autumn or else it would have to start taking alternative measures to advise Northern Ireland recipients of them on what action they should take. Has the Secretary of State got a plan to extend the welfare mitigations in the near future?

[Julian Smith]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions was in Northern Ireland last week. I continue to work with her and she is actively involved in looking at the issue of welfare not only in Great Britain but across Northern Ireland.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that the actions of the Labour party yesterday in forcing through the pro-EU anti-democratic surrender Bill will make it more difficult for the Government to reach an agreement with the EU and therefore produce a situation in which direct rule is likely? Will he give an assurance that he will not shy away from the decision that should, quite frankly, have been made a long time ago?

[Julian Smith]

We have to focus on getting a deal for Northern Ireland. That is my priority in supporting the Prime Minister, and that is his priority. Let us get Stormont up and running. That will solve many of the issues that we are concerned about today.

[Mr Speaker]

My apologies to the right hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire). If I had seen him earlier, I would have called him earlier, but it is a pleasure to call him now.

[James Brokenshire (Old Bexley and Sidcup) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his appointment. It is a privilege to serve in office and I wish him all success with his role. He highlighted in his written statement yesterday the need to intensify negotiations with the parties. That is the way to avoid legislation being needed. Perhaps he could set out what form he expects that to take.

[Julian Smith]

As I mentioned earlier, we have been having good discussions over the summer. I met the Irish Foreign Minister last Friday and we will be meeting again this Friday. I hope to push forward, with him, on working with the parties to get into a position where we have the best possible opportunity to get Stormont up and running.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

We heard from the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) yesterday about the Prime Minister’s failure, to date, to meet the Taoiseach, so what engagement on Prorogation has there been with the Irish Government in their capacity as co-guarantors under the Good Friday agreement?

[Julian Smith]

I meet the Irish Foreign Minister regularly, but I have not discussed the issue of Prorogation.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend to his place. I am pleased to see that he is committed to legislation for victims of institutional abuse being in the Queen’s Speech. Can he commit to that legislation coming to this place before the end of year?

[Julian Smith]

Yes, I can.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

If we prorogue and then move to Dissolution and Stormont is still not sitting, what will happen to the provisions of the Northern Irish Bill that repeal sections 58 and59 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 after 22 October?

[Julian Smith]

Those provisions remain.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

Just this week, Northern Ireland has received over £400 million extra in the spending review. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the people of Northern Ireland will get far better value for that money in all areas of spending by having the Assembly up and running?

[Julian Smith]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the £400 million, but we need a political decision making body, the Executive, to ensure that it is directed in the best interests of Northern Ireland citizens.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State’s former boss instigated a review into the Home Office forcing British identity on those who identify as Irish, such as Emma de Souza back in February. Can the Secretary of State advise the House whether his new boss has binned that review? If not, why not, and when will he publish it?

[Julian Smith]

It is vital that this House continues to respect the dual citizenship components that the hon. Gentleman talks about and ensures that they are preserved. The review is taking place, and I have made strong representations. The Government are fully committed to the Good Friday agreement obligations.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

The Prime Minister says that a hard border can be avoided by the use of existing technology, so can the Secretary of State explain what technology can check passports, visas and customs arrangements for goods without so much as a camera at the border?

[Julian Smith]

The Government are fully committed, as are the Irish Government, to the common travel area in all deal and no-deal scenarios.

[Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Does the Secretary of State wish to respond?

[Julian Smith]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

He does not wish to respond. Okay. The point of order has been heard. It is not a matter for adjudication by the Chair, but I want to say to the Secretary of State that the concern that has been expressed on this matter on both sides of the House, including by a number of former Northern Ireland Secretaries, will have registered very firmly with the right hon. Gentleman, and more must be heard about this matter ere long. We need to be absolutely crystal clear on that point. Nothing can get in the way of the provision of proper information to the House on this matter, as the Chair of the Select Committee and many others have emphasised. No one should think that that can be averted. It cannot be, and it will not be.

NI (Executive Formation etc) Act: Reports

Julian Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Julian Smith)]

I am today formally laying in the House, under section 3 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, reports on progress towards forming an Executive and other matters.

Northern Ireland has been without a sitting Assembly and Executive since January 2017. Since becoming Secretary of State for Northern Ireland I have made working to restore the devolved institutions my absolute priority.

Whilst significant gaps remain on rights, identity and culture, the Government’s assessment is that the range of outstanding issues in the cross-party talks is relatively narrow.

This means it should prove possible—with intensive engagement—to resolve the strands of talks on the programme for government, transparency and sustainability relatively swiftly. There has been good engagement too on the petition of concern.

While the parties remain engaged and are demonstrating a willingness to find solutions to the remaining critical issues, a renewed determination to find agreement will be needed if the process is to conclude in the coming weeks.

Northern Ireland needs a restored Executive and the political leadership that would bring. The UK Government, working closely with the Irish Government in accordance with the three-stranded approach, will now intensify our efforts to put forward compromise solutions to the parties. If that does not succeed, then my next update to the House will set out next steps to ensure adequate governance in Northern Ireland and the protection of the Belfast (Good Friday) agreement.

The reports I have laid in the House today also address other critical issues for Northern Ireland. These include a report on the progress of implementing the recommendations made by the report of the inquiry into historical institutional abuse in Northern Ireland. I want to pay particular tribute to the survivors I have met, who waited so long for acknowledgment and accountability for the appalling abuse that they suffered. Good progress has been made on drafting legislation to deliver redress for the survivors, and I will continue to press for a slot to introduce the legislation at Westminster as soon as possible.

I have also laid a report setting out next steps on abortion in Northern Ireland. The Government acknowledge that this is a highly sensitive subject, and I continue to believe it would be better in principle if it could be addressed by the democratic institutions in Northern Ireland.

Given the very long and drawn-out cross-party talks process, the House spoke clearly in July this year. There are now legal obligations for the Government to deliver change to the law on abortion in Northern Ireland in the event that the Executive is not restored. The Government will update the House and the public regularly on the steps it is taking, mindful that the legal obligation will be triggered from 21 October in the absence of an Executive. This will result in the repeal of the relevant criminal law in Northern Ireland [sections 58 and 59 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861], and a moratorium will also come into effect on that date, meaning that no criminal investigation may be carried out, and no criminal proceedings may be brought or continued after this time.

By no later than 31 March 2020, a new legal regime allowing for lawful access to abortion services, implementing the recommendations of the 2018 Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) Report, will be in place.

The full list of reports is as follows:

Gambling

Human trafficking

Victims’ payment

Historical institutional abuse

A single report covering:

Executive formation

Transparency of political donations

Higher education and a Derry university

Presumption of non-prosecution

Troubles related guidance

Abortion law review

Armed forces covenant

Definition of a victim

Both Houses will debate the motions on the first reports relating to the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019.

[HCWS1815]

NI (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions Act): Report

Julian Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 4th September 2019 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Julian Smith)]

This statement is issued in accordance with section 4 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation and Exercise of Functions) Act 2018 (“the Act”). Section 4 of the Act requires that I, as Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, report on a quarterly basis on guidance issued under that section of the Act, and report on how I plan to address the impact of the absence of Northern Ireland Ministers on human rights obligations within three months of the day the Act was passed.

The Act received Royal Assent on 1 November 2018. Following careful consideration of the sensitive issues section 4 deals with, and in consultation with the Northern Ireland civil service, guidance under section 4 was published on 17 December 2018.

The guidance notes that it does not, and cannot be used to, change the current law on abortion or same-sex marriage in Northern Ireland. Both issues remain devolved matters in Northern Ireland. The guidance provides that all relevant Northern Ireland Departments should continue to have regard to all of their legal obligations, including the Human Rights Act 1998 and sections 24 and 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, in exercising any relevant functions in relation to abortion and same-sex marriage.

Two reports required under section 4 have been published as written ministerial statements on 30 January 2019 and 1 May 2019.

I have consulted the head of the Northern Ireland civil service in the preparation of this report. He has reaffirmed the continuing commitment of the NICS to have regard to their legal obligations when exercising any relevant functions in relation to abortion and same-sex marriage.

The Government’s preference remains that any change to law on either of these sensitive devolved issues is taken forward by a restored Executive and functioning Assembly. It remains the hope that devolved government can be restored at the earliest opportunity through the current talks process.

However, we recognise the strength of feeling on same-sex marriage and abortion law reform demonstrated by a majority of MPs supporting the addition of sections 8 and 9 to the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019. These sections require the Government to regulate in order to provide access to abortion services and same-sex marriage (and opposite-sex civil partnerships) in Northern Ireland, if there is no restored Executive by 21 October 2019.

There are a range of sensitive policy issues that need to be carefully addressed on both issues. We will work with relevant Whitehall Departments and the Northern Ireland civil service to take all necessary steps between now and 21 October 2019 to ensure that, if the Executive has not been restored by that date, relevant regulations can come into force in accordance with the timescales specified in the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019.

[HCWS1816]