Approved Mileage Allowance Payment Rate

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Monday 3rd July 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

It is always a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Sharma, and it is a great honour to serve under your chairmanship. This is an incredibly important subject, and I will do my best to address all the many points that have been made in some fantastic speeches. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) on introducing the debate on behalf of the Petitions Committee, and thank everybody who signed the petition.

The Government, right up to the Prime Minister and the Chancellor, are absolutely committed to supporting individuals and businesses with the rising cost of living. That includes motoring expenses. Let me respond to the various points by first setting out what AMAPs actually are, the rationale for their existence, and how they work. Then I will talk more broadly about how the Government are supporting people, because hon. Members have rightly asked about that on behalf of their constituents.

As we have heard in this very good debate, approved mileage allowance payments, or AMAPs, allow employees to receive tax-free reimbursement from their employer when using their own vehicle for business journeys. The rate for cars and vans is currently set at 45p per mile for the first 10,000 miles travelled annually and 25p thereafter. The AMAP and simplified expenses rates are designed as tax simplifications, as my hon. Friends have pointed out. They are intended to make it to easier for employers, employees and small businesses to record their mileage and calculate how much tax relief is due.

Simplification is at the heart of this. It is a key objective of the overall tax system, and the Government want the tax system that we oversee to be simple and fair, and to support growth wherever possible. The AMAP and simplified expenses rates are a long-standing tax simplification measure that helps us to achieve that simplification objective. Rather than having to work out a business or employment proportion of all their individual motoring costs, the rates allow taxpayers to make a simple calculation based on their business mileage to work out how much tax relief is due. The rates form the basis of a single calculation that can take the place of multiple calculations that would otherwise be required, which would be administratively taxing.

Because the single rates are much simpler than an alternative calculation of actual expenses, there will always be a trade-off between accuracy and simplicity for motorists who use the rates. The rate may reflect the actual costs of motoring better for some than others—we completely accept that. In some cases, it may provide slightly more relief than the actual costs would; in others, it might provide slightly less. That will depend on factors such as fuel efficiency, the car’s size, driving conditions and the level of associated costs such as insurance. Tax simplification is an ongoing priority for the Government and, frankly, AMAPs helps us achieve that.

Ultimately, however, as several colleagues have pointed out, the AMAP rate is not mandatory. Employee and employer expenses are a matter for individual employers and voluntary organisations to determine. It is up to employers to determine the remuneration and expenses for their employees.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Jack Brereton) rightly raised the issue of employees who receive less than the AMAP rate from their employer. Those people can claim mileage allowance relief on the difference, as HMRC provides. That reduces the tax that they can pay, and I urge my hon. Friend’s constituents to look into that in more detail.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

As the Minister mentioned, the allowance offers relief whereby individuals can claim money back. Do the Government have figures on how many people are using the relief? It would helpful to know that.

[Gareth Davies]

That is a very reasonable question. I do not have the figures to hand, but am happy to provide them if we are able to. I also point out that employees paid expenses above the AMAP rate may be taxed on the difference, depending on their personal circumstances—if they earn in excess of the personal allowance, for example.

As my hon. Friends the Members for Carshalton and Wallington and for Waveney (Peter Aldous), as well as several others across the Chamber, have outlined, volunteers are an important part of our communities and perform incredibly important services for all of us. It is right that they be highlighted and recognised in the debate today. The Government recognise the outstanding contribution that all volunteers and the charities that employ them make to our communities, including my community of Grantham and Stamford.

I should reassure hon. Members that, unlike employees, volunteers can receive payments in excess of the AMAP rate and do not have to pay tax if they can provide evidence that they have not made a profit. If they provide the receipts and evidence of their travel, they do not have to pay tax above the AMAP rate, unlike employees. That provides volunteers and voluntary organisations with additional flexibility, given how important they are. And they are important to the Government—that is why, for example, at the spring Budget the Chancellor set out an additional £100 million support package for charities and community organisations in England. That will be targeted at voluntary, community and social enterprise organisations at most risk at this difficult time. We will be setting out more about the eligibility criteria in due course, and hon. Members may wish to monitor that carefully.

[Peter Aldous]

That was an interesting point, and I just need to digest what the Minister was saying. I think he was saying that volunteer drivers can claim extra tax relief provided that they can show that they are not making a profit. Does he have any figures showing how many are actually doing that? I suggest that the system is so complicated that very few take it up. It would be far simpler to increase the rate.

[Gareth Davies]

The point I would make is that volunteer organisations do not need to use AMAPs; all that is required are receipts and evidence of journeys. Volunteer organisations can set literally any rate as long as that evidence is shown. The AMAP is a simplified rate and applies to employees of private organisations and businesses, for example.

I want to address the review period and the regularity of reviews, because they were mentioned by a number of colleagues. They make a fair point, but I would point out that by its very nature AMAP is a tax relief, as is mileage allowance relief. It is convention that they are reviewed at fiscal events, in line with most taxes we have, but it is also important for the work that we do with the Office for Budget Responsibility, so that it can score during the Budget process. That is why the reliefs are always reviewed. I assure hon. Members that there is a review at every fiscal event, and it is right that it is done at fiscal events and not in the middle of the fiscal events cycle.

A couple of Members mentioned self-employed individuals, so let me quickly address that issue. Self-employed individuals can choose to use simplified motoring expenses, which allows them to deduct a fixed rate per mile against their self-employed profits, and those rates mirror the AMAP rates. Self-employed individuals do not have to use the rates; they can instead choose to deduct capital allowances and actual costs. However, it is not possible to switch between the two options with the same car or van once a self-employed individual has chosen to use either the simplified mileage rate or the capital allowances and expenses. I hope that clarifies the position: they do have that choice.

Some hon. Members rightly talked about the cost of living situation in which we find ourselves. I want to directly address that now, because AMAPs are one part of our system to support employees across the country, but it is important to recognise the other measures that the Government are taking to support people at this very difficult time, and that is part of the review process when we look at AMAPs. I simply reiterate the point that many hon. Members have made today: in the spring Budget, the Chancellor announced continued support for both households and businesses by extending the temporary 5p fuel duty cut and cancelling the planned inflation rise for 2023-24. That represents a saving for all drivers across the country, amounting to £5 billion, which is about £100 per household.

In addition, at the spring Budget we went further by extending energy support, because we know that inflation has been a real problem for many households across the country. We kept the energy price guarantee at £2,500 for three months from April, saving households an additional £160 and bringing total Government support for energy bills to £1,500 for a typical household since October 2022.

Alongside that, we have gone even further and helped to support households by ending the premium paid by over 4 million households using prepayment meters across the United Kingdom. We have also introduced 30 hours of free childcare per week for working parents with children aged nine months to three years in England, alongside a substantial uplift in the hourly rate paid to providers and market reforms. That is in addition to the benefits uprating and support for vulnerable households across this country that we announced at the autumn statement, which included new cost of living payments for this year and next, helping more than 8 million UK households on eligible means-tested benefits, 8 million pensioner households and 6 million people across the country on disability benefits.

Taken together, we have provided £94 billion-worth of support to help households with higher bills, or an average of £3,300 per household, across 2022-23 and 2023-24. That is one of the largest packages of support in Europe, but as the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) pointed out, high inflation is the greatest immediate economic challenge that we face. That is why the Prime Minister has set it out as one of his top priorities, and it is why we in the Treasury have set out a clear plan to reduce inflation.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I thank the Minister for his generosity in giving way, and his time. Given that over 40,000 people signed the petition and many have raised the issue, will the Treasury look into it? Will the Minister indicate whether work is already being done behind the scenes? Has the Treasury been lobbied directly on changing the mileage scheme, because I know Unison and other stakeholders have done some work on the matter? I would be keen to know if any meetings or engagement have taken place.

[Gareth Davies]

That is a fair question. I assure the hon. Lady that an extensive review is taking place, which takes into account a range of factors, but a big part of it is engagement. We have engaged extensively with various industries and unions, and we will continue to do that around the fiscal event cycle, as I have said. All taxes remain under review.

I have magically received an answer to the hon. Lady’s earlier question: between 1.8 million and 2.1 million people use their own vehicles for business travel, and 200,000 employees claim mileage allowance relief. That is 40% of all those entitled to it. I hope that answers her question.

I am coming to the end of my remarks, but I want to ensure that I address as many points raised as possible. My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney made points about the importance of NHS staff, and I want to put on record my thanks to all NHS workers who use their own cars. I entirely agree with the emphasis he put on the importance of those workers to our society. I stress that paying the AMAP rate is voluntary. It is up to the NHS as an employer to determine expense rates. Travel cost reimbursement is covered by NHS terms and conditions, jointly agreed between trade unions and the employer. As my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Peter Gibson) pointed out, as of January 2023, the NHS increased its rate above the AMAP rate to 59p for cars up to 3,500 miles, in recognition of the fact that a number of NHS workers travel a shorter distance.

[Peter Gibson]

I am grateful for the clarification. Will the Minister clarify why it is right and fair for that scheme to apply in the NHS, but not outside it?

[Gareth Davies]

As I said, the scheme is voluntary. Any organisation can apply a higher rate than the AMAP rate, and the NHS has chosen to do that. If my hon. Friend believes that other organisations should offer a higher rate, that is something he should take up with them.

[Peter Gibson]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way again. Will he outline what tax consequences there would be if an organisation chose to take those higher rates?

[Gareth Davies]

If a rate is provided that is above the AMAP rate, national insurance and income tax would be applied to that difference, depending on the personal circumstances of the individual—for example, depending on the overall amount of income tax they pay, or whether they are over the personal allowance amount. Voluntary organisations, which my hon. Friend spoke about, can offer any rate they want, as I pointed out to my hon. Friends the Members for Waveney, and for Carshalton and Wallington. So long as evidence is shown for the journeys, organisations do not have to use the AMAP rates. I hope that clarifies things.

In conclusion, it is ultimately for employers to determine the expenses paid in respect of motoring costs that employees incur with their private vehicles. The Government set AMAP and simplified expenses rates with the aim of creating administrative simplicity. Those rates will necessarily be more appropriate for some motorists than others. However, the Government have taken decisive steps to support households with the costs of living, which I have extensively set out. The Government will continue to keep AMAP and simplified expenses rates under review, as they do all taxes and allowances.

[Peter Aldous]

I have listened very carefully to my hon. Friend and I thank him for his response, but would he not agree that, over the past decade, there has been a societal change in the way that community transport has become a vital component of our public transport system, and in the way that health and social care is delivered? Health and care workers often go to people’s homes now, rather than those people coming to hospitals. That in itself warrants a fundamental review of the system.

[Gareth Davies]

My hon. Friend was just in the nick of time, but he makes a valid point. I will answer that in two parts. On care providers, the rate paid is a matter for the employer. It is entirely up to them, in the light of changes to how care is provided, to offer a rate that they deem appropriate; as I say, the NHS has offered a higher rate for those travelling fewer than 3,500 miles.

My hon. Friend made a broader point about the importance of community organisations, and mentioned community transportation. Those organisations are a vital part of our communities, particularly in constituencies like mine, in rural parts of the country. That is why this Government have got behind voluntary and community organisations. As I say, we recently announced another £100 million of support to specifically target charities and community organisations. That support will remain, just as it has for many years.

I am grateful for all the contributions and interventions from my hon. Friends, and from colleagues from across the House. This is an important debate to have, and I am pleased to have addressed the issue on behalf of the Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 20th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

22. What fiscal steps he is taking to support households with their energy bills.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

Advanced economies around the world share the challenge of high inflation from the energy shock, and the UK has been affected by those global factors. The Government have taken significant action to help households with rising energy prices and the cost of living by providing a significant support package totalling £94 billion. That includes supporting households with energy bills by extending the energy price guarantee and removing the premium paid by 4 million households using prepayment meters. Overall, the Government have paid about half of a typical household bill since October 2022.

[Alan Brown]

Many people in the highlands and islands of Scotland will have had their taxes used to help pay for the construction of the gas grid, despite the fact that they are off the gas grid themselves and do not get the benefits of being connected to it. Their area supplies the oil and gas, and now the cheap renewable energy, that is facilitating lower energy bills across Great Britain, yet they are more likely to be fuel poor. To rub salt in the wounds, many pay a surcharge on their electricity bills. When will the UK Government address those inequities?

[Gareth Davies]

I would simply point out that across the United Kingdom we have provided extensive support, as I said in my answer to the substantive question. I am very happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with details on his specific point.

[David Duguid]

When the energy profits levy was introduced to help the Government’s support of household energy bills, I welcomed the investment tax allowance that was introduced along with it on new oil and gas for energy security. In recent weeks, I also welcomed the Exchequer Secretary’s announcement in Aberdeen of a price floor in the form of an energy security investment mechanism, at which the EPL will be removed. The devil, of course, will be in the detail. I welcome the Treasury’s ongoing engagement and dialogue with the oil and gas industry, but will the Minister commit to a regular, perhaps quarterly, fiscal forum with the industry, as used to happen prior to covid? Does he agree that Labour’s plans to ban all new oil and gas is based on ideology and not a pragmatic approach to this country’s energy security and net zero?

[Gareth Davies]

I can think of few better advocates for the oil and gas industry than my hon. Friend. I was very pleased to meet industry leaders and the chair of the oil and gas forum in Aberdeen recently. We had a very good discussion and I am grateful to the industry for its ongoing engagement with Ministers and officials. I can assure him that the Government are very committed to engaging with the oil and gas sector, as we have been doing for a long time.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

14. What recent assessment his Department has made of the potential impact of withdrawal from the EU on the economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Quite rightly, this Question Time has been dominated by questions about inflation and the cost of living. One policy that has not been mentioned is the Government’s net zero policy and the inflationary costs included in it, from green levies of £12 billion to the cost of strengthening the infrastructure and the favourable treatment given to renewable energy firms. While the Minister may condemn the Labour party for its £29 billion green policy spending plan, what is the cost of the Government’s net zero policies to consumers? Are they not picking their pockets dry?

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

We have a world-leading track record on net zero, but we must balance that correctly with who bears the cost. Critical to the nature of the right hon. Gentleman’s question is mobilising more private capital, and we are making great strides on that front.

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend update the House as to when we will see spades in the ground on the Brunswick site in Darlington for the Darlington economic campus?

[Gareth Davies]

My hon. Friend is a great champion of Darlington, and Darlington’s economic campus is a critical part of levelling up. The Government Property Agency has been working hard to finalise commercial negotiations. I would be happy to write to my hon. Friend when I have a more substantive update.

Energy Tax

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Monday 12th June 2023 Written Statements

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

The Government introduced the Energy (Oil and Gas) Profits Levy (EPL) in May 2022 to tax the temporary extraordinary profits of oil and gas companies, and to help fund vital support for millions of people facing rising bills, including the energy price guarantee and additional support for those most in need. With this levy in place, the UK has a tax rate of 75% on profits from oil and gas production, which is expected to raise around £50 billion between 2022-23 and 2027-28. This is one of the highest tax rates for oil and gas production globally.

While ensuring that oil and gas companies pay their fair share, it is also important that the Government support jobs, supply chains and the country’s energy security. A faster decline in domestic production would mean importing more oil and gas—at greater expense and potentially resulting in additional emissions. This is why today the Government will give operators and lenders the confidence they need to keep investing in the UK’s domestic energy reserves, while being clear that while prices remain high, the Government will continue to tax extraordinary profits.

Through the introduction of an energy security investment mechanism, the Government will ensure that the EPL is disapplied if oil and gas prices fall to historically normal levels for a sustained period. The energy security investment mechanism will only be activated when prices consistently meet or fall below a level typically associated with pre-crisis household energy bills. The mechanism will use a 20-year historical average to the end of 2022, so that it is set at $71.40 per barrel of oil and £0.54 per therm of gas. The Government will require average prices to meet or fall below the level of both price thresholds for two successive quarters before disapplying the EPL and will set out further details on how this will work in due course. This mechanism is not expected to impact receipts from the energy profits levy, based on current market forecasts.

In the 2022 autumn statement, the Chancellor announced a review into the long-term fiscal regime for North sea oil and gas, to ensure that the regime delivers predictability and certainty, supporting investment, jobs and the country’s energy security. The Government have published terms of reference for this review, setting out its scope and objectives. The review will focus on how the fiscal regime can support the country’s energy security while also realising our net-zero commitments in the medium and long term.

In addition, the review will explore how the fiscal regime should respond to any future price shocks, ensuring that the country retains a fair return in exchange for the use of its resources in a high-price environment.

The full terms of reference can be found on the gov.uk website at:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-the-oil-and-gas-fiscal-regime-terms-of-reference.

[HCWS845]

Finance (No. 2) Bill (Fourth sitting)

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 18th May 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 322 stand part.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

Clause 321 introduces a new domestic air passenger duty band for flights within the UK to bolster connectivity within the Union and a new ultra-long-haul band to further align the tax with the Government’s environmental objectives. The clause also sets the 2023-24 rates for both the new bands and the two existing bands that are operated by the retail price index.

Clause 322 enables the Northern Ireland Assembly to set the rate for the new ultra-long-haul band for direct flights departing Northern Ireland. The primary purpose of air passenger duties is to ensure that the aviation sector contributes to public finances, since tickets are VAT-free and aviation fuel incurs no duty.

Following a consultation on aviation tax reform in 2021, the Government announced a package of APD reforms at the autumn Budget 2021. First, the reforms will bolster air connectivity within the Union through a 50% cut in domestic APD. Some of the nations and regions of the UK are separated by sea so aviation has a critical role to play in facilitating the necessary links across our Union.

Secondly, by adding a new ultra-long-haul distance band, the reforms further align APD with the Government’s environmental objectives, recognising that aviation is responsible for 8% of the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions. In particular, emissions from international aviation have more than doubled since 1990, and we were responsible for 96% of the sector’s greenhouse gas emissions in 2019.

The new ultra-long-haul band, which covers flights that are greater than 5,500 miles from London, will ensure that those who fly furthest and have the greatest impact on emissions incur the greatest duty. The annual uprating for APD rates in line with RPI to the nearest pound is routine and has occurred every year since 2012. To give airlines sufficient notice, the Government announce the rates at least one year in advance.

The changes made by clause 321 implement the APD reforms and the 2023-24 rates announced at autumn Budget 2021. APD for domestic flights, except private jets, will be reduced by 50%, from £13 to £6.50 for passengers flying economy class. Overall, the Government expect that more than 10 million passengers will benefit from the reform.

The new ultra-long-haul band will be set at £91 for passengers flying in economy—a £4 increase compared with the existing long-haul band. That is expected to affect less than 5% of passengers. For the remaining 2023-24 rates where the standard uprating applies, the clause increases the long-haul rate by a nominal increase of just £3 for economy class. The rounding of APD rates to the nearest pound means that short-haul rates will remain frozen in normal terms for the 10th year in a row. That benefits more than 70% of passengers.

Clause 322 enables the Northern Ireland Assembly to set the rates for the new ultra-long-haul band for direct flights departing Northern Ireland. The rates for direct long-haul flights from Northern Ireland are already devolved. The reforms to air passenger duty will bolster Union connectivity and further align the tax with our environmental objectives. These are a routine uprating of existing rates, which represents a real-terms freeze and ensures that airlines continue to make a fair contribution to our public finances. I therefore move that the clauses stand part of the Bill.

[James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)]

As we heard from the Minister, clause 321 will introduce a new domestic band for flights within the UK and a new ultra-long-haul band covering destinations with capitals located more than 5,500 miles from London. Until the end of March 2023, there were two destination rate bands for air passenger duty: band A included those countries whose capital city is less than 2,000 miles from London, with band B covering all other destinations. From 1 April, there have been four destination bands: the domestic band for flights within the UK; band A for non-domestic destinations whose capital is up to 2,000 miles from London; band B for destinations whose capital is between 2,001 and 5,500 miles from London; and band C for all other destinations.

As the Minister explained, clause 322 makes consequential amendments to the provisions that devolve to the Northern Ireland Assembly the power to set the direct long-haul rates of APD. I understand that the changes in the clause do not impinge on the devolved powers, and the devolved rates are not affected. Rather, it updates the provisions to reflect the introduction of clause 321 and the ultra-long-haul band.

Before I address our concerns about this measure, I would be grateful if the Minister could help the Committee to understand what the situation would be if the clause passed by confirming what rates of air passenger duty would apply in a few specific instances. First, if someone were to travel by helicopter around the UK—for instance, from London to Southampton—would that be subject to air passenger duty? Secondly, if someone travelled on a private jet around the UK—say, from London to Blackpool—that was, for argument’s sake, a Dassault Falcon 900LX, what rate of air passenger duty would apply? Finally, if someone lives in the UK but was travelling to another home of theirs—say, in Santa Monica, California—what rate of air passenger duty would apply? I would be grateful if the Minister could answer those three questions.

I turn to our concerns about the clause. As the Minister might know, when this measure was first announced at autumn Budget 2021, we raised our concerns about it during the debates on the subsequent Finance Bill. We pointed out then—it is even truer today—that it could not be right for the Government to prioritise a tax cut that would be of greatest benefit to people who are able to be frequent flyers in the UK at a time when working people across the country have been hit again and again by tax rises.

As well as being the wrong priority for public money, the Chancellor announced the cut in air passenger duty just days before COP26. What is more, as the Institute for Fiscal Studies pointed out at the time, the cut in air passenger duty would in fact flow through the UK emissions trading scheme and push up electricity prices for people at home. The Government have pointed out that the introduction of a reduced domestic rate of air passenger duty has been accompanied by the introduction of an ultra-long-haul rate. However, when taken together, all the changes in the clause are still set to cost the taxpayer an additional £35 million a year. We cannot support this as a priority for spending public money, so we will oppose the clause.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

May I declare a loose interest?

I have an elderly mother who lives in Australia. As she is elderly, I am spending more and more time going down there. That aside, has the Minister done any evaluation of air passenger duty and the economic competitiveness of the UK versus our European partners?

I ask that because I know from previous years travelling down to Australia that it has been much more viable for me to catch a flight to Amsterdam, Oslo or wherever and pick up a flight from there, because the cost of flights from the UK has been phenomenally more expensive than those from our European partners. From speaking to people, I know that more and more people are doing that. APD has the adverse effect of making us uneconomical and perhaps at some future point even taking a reduced rate because more and more people will be doing that. Has the Minister or anybody in the Treasury done any evaluation of our air passenger duty versus those of our European counterparts?

[Gareth Davies]

Let me try to answer those questions in order. Just to clarify for the Committee, there is no APD other than on fixed-wing aircraft. Private jets pay a higher rate than any other flight domestically, and they are not, to answer the hon. Member for Wallasey, subject to the 50% cut that we are talking about here. Any ultra-long-haul flights will face a new band, as I described in my opening remarks.

To answer the excellent and reasonable question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley (Craig Whittaker), I understand there was a review in 2021 of the economic impact of APD. As I said in my opening remarks, all factors are considered as part of that process, but I am happy to provide more detail in due course if that is warranted.

The point on Northern Ireland that the hon. Member for Wallasey raised is a good one. It is a devolved matter, as she points out, and Northern Ireland has the ability to set the rate for ultra-long-haul flights. Let me look into the matter of the arrangements we are putting in place, given the specific circumstances that we find ourselves in with the Executive. It is a fair question, and it deserves a fair answer, so I will come back to her.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I thank the Minister for undertaking to let us have that information, given the particular circumstances that prevail in Northern Ireland. Can he say a little bit about whether there is any progress with the aviation treaties? I know how difficult it is, but it is a complete anomaly that there is no taxation of aviation fuel simply because most flights pass through an international area, given the worse damage that use of aviation fuel does when aeroplanes are travelling at high altitude. Something that we aspired to do when I was in the Treasury was to get some kind of agreement in international treaties to bring that matter into tax. Has any progress been made in the ever-elongated period between when I was in the Treasury and the present day?

[Gareth Davies]

First, let me apologise to the hon. Lady. I had that in my notes to address, and I did not. She is referring to the Chicago convention, which basically is an international agreement whereby we have agreed not to tax aviation fuel. That was, as I understand, enacted in the 1940s. I was told in a briefing yesterday that it may have been updated some eight times since then, but she raises an interesting point. We are committed to all current international agreements, but it is certainly something that I will look into. I still regard myself as fairly new in this job, but I commit to look into it in due course.

Question put, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendment 9.

Clause 324 stand part.

Government amendment 10.

That schedule 22 be the Twenty-second schedule to the Bill.

Clause 325 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 323 to 325 and schedule 22 provide for the 2023-24 vehicle excise duty rates and the new, reformed heavy good vehicle levy from August 2023.

The clause sets the 2023-24 vehicle excise duty rate. Since 2010, rates of VED have changed only in line with inflation, which means that drivers have not seen a real-terms increase. The clause will result in nine in 10 car drivers seeing a change to their VED liability of £20 or less next year. The Government continue to support drivers who will benefit from the extended cut and will freeze fuel duty in 2023-24, worth £100 to the average driver.

Clause 324 and schedule 22 introduce the new, reformed HGV levy from August 2023, following the end of the levy suspension period. The reforms are a further step towards reflecting the environmental performance of heavy goods vehicles. Given that the HGV levy suspension period is coming to an end, HGV VED will remain frozen for 2023 to 2024 to support the haulage sector. Finally, clause 325 removes certain circumstances in which the levy suspension period for a given HGV is extended longer than intended.

I will now go through the measures in detail. A long-standing feature of VED is that it is uprated in line with inflation, using a measure based on the retail price index. Since 2010, rates for cars, vans and motorcycles have increased only in line with inflation. The standard annual rate of VED for cars first registered since April 2017—the most common annual rate—will increase by £15, from £165 to £180. Drivers will continue to benefit from the extended cut and freeze to fuel duty in 2023-24, which taken together represent a saving of £100 per average motorist.

As for the HGV levy, which applies to all HGVs of 12 tonnes or more, it was introduced in 2014 to ensure that all hauliers, both UK and non-UK, make a contribution when they drive on UK roads. The levy was suspended in August 2020 to support the haulage sector and aid the covid-19 pandemic recovery efforts. The suspension is due to end in August 2023.

In June 2022, the Government consulted on HGV levy reform options. The consultation sought views on proposals to align a reformed HGV levy with the environmental performance of the vehicle, ensuring that levy liability is as closely aligned as possible to when a foreign vehicle is used on a major road. Having considered views on the subject, the Government decided to take forward the proposals, as announced at the Budget.

Clause 323 will result in changes to some drivers’ vehicle excise duty liabilities. That includes changes to first-year rates of VED for cars. The most polluting vehicles will pay up to £2,605, while those with lower emissions will pay nothing. Rates for vans, motorcycles and motorcycle trade licences will also change in line with RPI.

Clause 324 and schedule 22 will increase the new reformed HGV levy. That is effective from August 2023. On average, UK HGVs will pay around 20% less than under the previous HGV levy, with both UK and non-UK hauliers benefiting from a much simplified levy structure based on weight proxying CO₂. The number of rates will reduce from 22 to 6, which will make administration easier. For non-UK hauliers, the reforms also ensure that the levy is focused on road usage and is more clearly aligned with the Government’s international obligations. The most common type of HGV hauliers will pay £576 per year. The second most common type will pay £150—less than the cost of a tank of fuel. For many types of HGVs, operating costs are more than £100,000 a year; the HGV levy represents a small fraction of that.

Clause 325 is a technical anti-avoidance change. In the final year of the three-year levy suspension period, each vehicle should benefit from only up to 12 months of levy-free period. The clause ensures that by providing for a transitional payment where a vehicle has benefited from additional months of levy-free period.

The Government have tabled amendments 9 and 10 to those clauses, which address minor legislative errors to ensure that vehicle excise duty for rigid HGVs pulling trailers continues to apply as intended following the introduction of the new reformed levy. Where VED was partly set according to the vehicle weight bands of the previous HGV levy, the amendments specify the same weight bands independently of the new reformed levy. As a result, the VED due for HGVs pulling trailers does not change, in line with the Government’s policy intention.

In conclusion, a new reformed HGV levy will ensure that all hauliers continue to make a contribution when they use UK roads after the levy suspension period ends. VED has been frozen for HGVs, and for other vehicles it is rising in line with RPI only, so drivers will not see a real-terms increase in their VED liabilities. I therefore commend the clauses, the schedule and amendments 9 and 10 to the Committee.

[James Murray]

As we have heard from the Minister, clause 323 provides for changes to certain rates of vehicle excise duty by amending schedule 1 to the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994. As we know from announcements in the spring Budget, vehicle excise duty rates for light passenger and light goods vehicles and motorcycles will increase in line with inflation, based on RPI. We understand that the changes to rates will take effect for vehicle licences taken out on or after 1 April this year.

Clause 324 and associated schedule 22 change the HGV road user levy; they amend, as the Minister said, how it is calculated and the rates. They also remove the requirement to provide a register of HGV levy paid. The HGV levy was introduced in 2014, and is payable by both UK and non-UK HGVs when using UK roads. The Government suspended the levy in August 2020, and it will return in August this year. The Department for Transport consulted on changes to the HGV levy in June 2022. The reforms implemented by the clause and the accompanying schedule move the levy towards better reflecting the environmental performance of vehicles.

On a minor point of clarification, the explanatory note to the clause states:

“For non-UK HGVs, the reforms also ensure that the levy is…more clearly aligned with the government’s international obligations.”

Could the Minister explain what international obligations the note refers to, and how the reforms better align the UK with them? Finally, clause 325 operates alongside clause 324. It deals with circumstances where the levy’s suspension period for a given HGV is extended longer than the Government intended. As the explanatory notes on the clause make clear, in the final year of the three-year levy suspension period, which ends in August this year, each vehicle should benefit from only another 12 months of levy-free period. I understand that the clause ensures that that is the case by providing for a transitional payment where a vehicle has benefited from additional months of levy-free period, so Labour will not oppose the clause.

[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful to the Opposition for not opposing clause 325. The hon. Member rightly asked about the international aspect of the provisions on international hauliers. Perhaps I can offer additional clarification. The measures will apply only to A roads and motorways, which is in line with what happens in many other countries. On the specific international obligations that he asked about, I do not have the exact detail to hand, but I am happy to follow up on that. However, what we propose is in line with what is done by many other countries around the world.

We are often asked why the levy is restricted to certain roads. It has been assessed that rerouting to avoid the levy would not be cost-effective for hauliers. We have every confidence that the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, the police and our extensive automatic number plate recognition technology will enable us to enforce this measure. On the question about international obligations, I understand that the obligations may be those under the trade and co-operation agreement. I will confirm that to him later.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 323 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 324

Reform of HGV road user levy

Amendment made: 9, in clause 324, page 245, line 34, after “provision” insert “(including consequential provision)”.—(Gareth Davies.)

See the explanatory statement for Amendment 10.

Clause 324, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 22

Reforms of HGV road user levy

Amendment made: 10, in schedule 22, page 449, line 25, at end insert—

‘10A “(1) In consequence of the amendments made by paragraph 10, in Part 8 of Schedule 1 to VERA 1994 (annual rates of duty: goods vehicles), paragraph 10 (relevant rigid goods vehicles) is amended as follows.

(2) After sub-paragraph (2) insert—

“(2A) In this paragraph, references to “the tables” are to the tables mentioned in sub-paragraph (6).”

(3) In sub-paragraph (3)—

(a) in the opening words omit “following”;

(b) in paragraph (c), for “appropriate HGV road user levy band” substitute “vehicle excise duty band”.

(4) For sub-paragraph (5) substitute—

“(5A) The “vehicle excise duty band” in relation to a vehicle is determined in accordance with the following table—

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 327 to 329 stand part.

New clause 5—Assessment of impact of the Act on compliance with the climate change target—

“The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within one year of this Act coming into force, publish an assessment of the impact of this Act on the Government’s ability to meet—

(a) the duty under section 1 of the Climate Change Act 2008 (the target for 2050), and

(b) its obligations and commitments under the Paris Agreement of 2015.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish an assessment of the impact of the Act on the UK Government’s ability to meet its duty to achieve Net Zero by 2050 and its obligations under the Paris Agreement.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 326 to 328 make changes to the rates of several taxes to support our environmental and climate change objectives. Clause 329 makes technical changes to ensure that the aggregate levy is fairer and simpler for businesses. I will talk through the clauses in turn.

Landfill tax aims to encourage the diversion of waste away from landfill and towards more environmentally friendly waste-management options, such as recycling. Clause 326 maintains the real-terms value of the price incentive to divert waste away from landfill by increasing the lower and standard rates of landfill tax in line with the RPI. The clause increases the lower rate from £3.15 per tonne to £3.25 per tonne and increases the standard rate from £98.60 per tonne to £102.10 per tonne, with effect from 1 April 2023.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Angela Eagle]

This is a group of clauses on environmental taxes, and the Minister has taken us through some of the technical changes and some of the upratings that are required by law. There is a gap on the landfill tax, as my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing North pointed out from the Front Bench, which implies that people are avoiding it rather than paying it. What comfort can the Minister give us that HMRC and the tax authorities are on to that issue? We have heard from both sides of the House, particularly on landfill tax, about the fraud that is perpetrated. I suspect that all of us in this room regularly spend our time as constituency MPs phoning various authorities to try to get the evil effects of fly-tipping in our constituencies dealt with.

The Minister has not said anything about enforcement of the tax and anti-fraud measures. He has said a little about how some of the taxes will be redesigned to try to design out some fraud, and I suspect he has done that particularly with the aggregates levy and his attention on so-called borrow pits. Perhaps he will correct me if I have got that wrong, but, having listened to what he had to say on that, I suspect it is about avoidance issues, focusing the aggregates levy on taking away the incentives to use virgin aggregate rather than recycling existing aggregates, and filling in other loopholes.

We all know from our constituencies that the landfill tax is not working as well as it should. Many of us have closed and managed landfill sites in or close to our constituencies. Not all of us have quarries, with the difficulties that occur there, but we all see the baleful effects of fly-tipping and people who save money by dumping rubbish, and sometimes far worse things, into the environment.

Clearly, HMRC and those who collect taxes have a role to play in dealing with fraud, but so has the Environment Agency. Perhaps the Minister will give us some comfort on this, but the weakening of enforcement authorities over the past few years is a real problem. We could have the perfect law, with the perfect text, designed perfectly so that incentives are fantastic, but if it is not enforced properly, it fails. We are certainly seeing that happen with the landfill tax.

Can the Minister give us some comfort that he is on to the issue and that the Treasury knows that it has to spend to save? The Treasury has to enforce the taxes that it levies, but it also has to empower other regulators and agencies that have a policing role, such as the Environment Agency and local authorities, to ensure that enforcement on these very important issues, which have a huge bearing on quality of life in all our constituencies, is properly resourced. Will the Minister give us some guarantees on that? At the moment, particularly with respect to the landfill tax, it is failing.

[Gareth Davies]

First, let me acknowledge that the landfill tax has been an overarching success, with local authority waste into landfill down by some 90% since 1990. I think we can all agree that that is a very good thing for England. I want to emphasise that, because it is a great success story.

A number of questions have been asked about waste crime. I completely agree that any type of waste crime is a blight on all our communities. As constituency MPs, we see the damage that it does, whether it is fly-tipping or other waste crime. That is why we have the joint unit for waste crime.

There have been questions about the effectiveness of the unit and the actions it has taken. I can tell the Committee that the unit is actively engaged in seeking to tackle waste crime. In particular, a special operation was undertaken from April 2020 to November 2022, in which some 100 partner agencies were engaged with the JUWC, and some 2,500 illegal waste sites were closed and a number of criminals engaged. But this is an ongoing problem and something we take very seriously. Of course, the Environment Agency has a role to play. The Government are engaged with all the agencies, not least the joint unit for waste crime, and we will continue to be so for some time to come.

There was a series of questions about the tax gap. For clarity, that is the difference between the amount that should be paid in theory and the amount that is collected by the Exchequer. The overall tax gap was 7.5% in 2005. It reduced to 5.1% in 2020-21. Any percentage of tax gap is too much, so it is important that we keep pressing HMRC to do everything that it can. I am confident that HMRC is tackling businesses that it suspects of waste crime that are not registered with it but could be liable for tax. The Government have given powers to HMRC to compulsorily register those businesses and, if necessary, issue penalties.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I am fascinated by the work of the joint unit for waste crime. I am slightly horrified that 2,500 illegal waste sites were closed. It is good that they are closed, but it is horrifying that there were so many of them to begin with. I wonder what estimates there are for how many remain. Could the Minister give us some information about what fines were levied and what prosecutions have been successfully undertaken by the joint unit for waste crime?

[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful for the question. I can tell the hon. Lady that in the period I referenced with the 2,500 waste units, 51 arrests were made as a result of that action. I apologise that I do not have further details to hand, but I am happy to provide them later.

As I was saying—this goes back to what my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme talked about—HMRC does have powers to intervene and issue penalties if necessary.

[Liz Twist]

I have two points for the Minister. First, my specific question was whether any prosecutions had taken place as a result of the work of the joint unit for waste crime. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey, I am pleased to hear that a number of sites have been shut down, although it is worrying that there were so many.

Secondly, will the Minister comment on the landfill tax gap? The issue was discussed in the Public Bill Committee on what became the Finance Act 2022. The then Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately), wrote to me following the Committee with an estimate of £200 million—22.7%—for the landfill tax gap for England and Northern Ireland in 2019-20. That was a decrease from the previous year.

If I heard him correctly, the Minister—

[The Chair]

Order. Interventions should be brief and to the point. The hon. Lady and other members of the Committee will not have any difficulty catching my eye if they want to make another contribution.

[Gareth Davies]

I completely understand the hon. Lady’s passion. I know that she is a long-standing campaigner in this area, so it is no surprise that she wants to discuss the issue; I completely understand why that is. I can tell her that the tax gap has fallen, I believe, in the period that I talked about by £125 million, from £200 million in 2019-20. To reiterate, in 2005 the tax gap stood at 7.5% and in 2020-21 it stood at 5.1%. As I say, we are not complacent. We must tackle the issue, and we continue to make great efforts to do so. I put on the record my thanks to HMRC for all the work that it does to get the number down, but it is a live issue.

Let me mop up the question asked by the hon. Member for Ealing North about a review of the plastic packaging tax. He is right to raise that. We will be conducting a review very soon, but we are clear that we would like a decent period in which to conduct it so that we can see a clearer picture of the impact the tax is having. I can assure him that a review will be conducted very soon.

[Liz Twist]

I apologise for my previous lengthy intervention, Mr Stringer. May I return to the issue of the tax gap? As the Minister himself said, it was £200 million in 2019-20, a 22.7% gap. I am interested to hear the Minister say that it has reduced so much. If it has, I am hugely pleased, as it means that enforcement action is being taken. [Interruption.] Would he care to comment on the huge gap in the figures and how it might have reduced?

[Gareth Davies]

I apologise, but will the hon. Lady make that last point again? I did not hear her because of the noise in the background.

[Liz Twist]

I was just asking the Minister to explain how the Treasury has managed to reduce the tax gap from 22.7% in 2019-20 to 5% in the latest figures, which is what I believe he said. That seems to be a great difference.

[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful for that clarification. As I mentioned, HMRC is actively targeting businesses and is able to tackle businesses that are not registered but that it believes are liable. In addition, HMRC has powers of compulsory registration.

I should clarify that those figures give the overall tax picture. The most recent figures for the landfill tax gap for England and Northern Ireland are estimated at 17.1% for 2020-21. I was giving figures for the overall tax picture, but the hon. Lady makes a very good point of inquiry. I hope that that clarifies the situation.

[James Murray]

I thank the Minister for his commitment to a review of the effectiveness of the plastic packaging tax and for his clarification of some of the statistics around the tax gap. Comparing the figures that he cited with the figure of 17.1% for landfill tax fraud shows just how big the tax gap is for landfill tax fraud, and how important it is that specific action be taken. Will he explain what specific action, rather than just talk about generalities, is being taken on landfill tax fraud, which we all agree is a problem that must be tackled?

May I also remind the Minister about a question I asked earlier? I am sorry if I missed it, but I do not think he responded to my question about the £125 million tax gap identified in 2020-21 and what has been done to recover that money.

[Gareth Davies]

As I have laid out, the Joint Unit for Waste Crime is a very effective organisation. It works with more than 100 agency partners to tackle all types of waste crime, including the type that we are talking about. HMRC is targeting businesses and has the powers to compulsorily register and to issue penalties. That action is being taken by not just HMRC, but by the JUWC.

I will get back to the hon. Member on his last point; I do not have the information in front of me right now.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 326 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 327 to 329 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 330

Designation of sites

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 331 stand part.

That schedule 23 be the Twenty-third schedule to the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to debate clause 344 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 343 and 344 will restrict UK tax reliefs to UK charities and community amateur sports clubs. Having left the EU, it is right that UK taxpayer money should support UK charities and community amateur sports clubs.

The UK is a world leader in the charitable sector. This reflects many factors, including our geography, our connectivity and our recognised legal and regulatory expertise, but also because our tax regime for charities is among the most generous of anywhere in the world. As a result, there is a thriving UK charity sector, which includes numerous charities working across the globe, comprising both UK-based charities and UK branches of international charities.

Charitable tax reliefs in the UK are given in the following areas: income tax; capital gains tax, corporation tax, VAT, inheritance tax, stamp duty, stamp duty land tax, stamp duty reserve tax, annual tax on enveloped dwellings, and diverted profits tax. Additionally, charities and CASCs can also claim gift aid of 25p for every £1 of eligible donations made by UK taxpayers. In 2021-22, UK charitable reliefs were worth £5.5 billion to the sector, up from £4 billion in 2013-14. That has remained strong despite covid-19, with the value of reliefs remaining at about £5.5 billion from 2019-20 until 2021-22.

Before the introduction of that measure, charities based in the EU or European economic area could qualify for UK tax reliefs. Now it is time to take advantage of the UK’s exit from the European Union and to restrict UK tax reliefs so that they are available only to UK charities and community amateur sports clubs. That will protect the integrity of the tax system, as UK charities and community amateur sports clubs that are located outside the UK are harder for HMRC to police.

Clauses 343 and 344 will restrict UK tax reliefs to UK charities and community amateur sports clubs. Importantly, they do not discriminate between UK charities undertaking charitable activity here in the UK or abroad. The key factor is that the charity must be governed by a UK court. The measure took effect from Budget day, but the Government have allowed a short transition period until April 2024 for those charities that HMRC has recognised will be affected by the change. That provides a window for them to register in the UK if they are eligible or, if not, to reformulate their affairs.

The measure will ensure that UK taxpayer money will be used to support UK charities and community amateur sports clubs, and the effective policing of charitable reliefs through HMRC compliance activities. I commend the clauses to the Committee.

[James Murray]

As the Minister set out, clauses 343 and 344 introduce a restriction on the availability of tax reliefs so that only UK charities and UK community amateur sports clubs can gain access to UK charity tax reliefs. UK charitable tax reliefs were extended to organisations equivalent to charities and community amateur sports clubs in the EU and in the EEA countries of Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein following a judgment of the European Court of Justice in January 2009. Following the UK’s exit from the EU, however, the Government are progressing to restrict UK tax relief to UK charities and community amateur sports clubs. We will not oppose the clauses.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 343 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 344 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 345

Exemptions from tax

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Douglas Chapman]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Hopefully we can all get off to lunch quite soon. The UK Government may still be driving the big red Brexit blunder-bus towards the sunny uplands, merrily in denial of the catastrophic damage that leaving the EU has wrought on the country, but British citizens and businesses are in no doubt about the serious lack of any tangible benefits from Brexit. In reality, the UK Government may have got Brexit done, but unfortunately we all got done at the same time. Not a week goes past without a Brexit myth-busting news headline. This week, we discovered that one of the world’s largest car manufacturers believes that Brexit is a threat to our export business, and the sustainability of UK manufacturing options. Stellantis, which owns Vauxhall and Fiat, warned the Government to reverse Brexit, or it will have to close down its factories. Just today, Jaguar Land Rover described the Brexit deal as “unrealistic and counterproductive” for electric vehicle manufacturing.

The Minister mentioned all the fantastic innovation-based opportunities that she could see in the future, but those two companies join a chorus of other manufacturers in the UK that have advised the Government to look again at the Brexit trade deal. Brexit was sold to us as a chance to reduce red tape, to free us up from the so-called constraints of EU bureaucracy, and to negotiate bigger and better trade deals across the globe. Instead, it has freed us from success, growth, productivity and competitiveness—so quite the opposite. Brexit has meant that we are fighting a war on all fronts, with not a unicorn or rainbow in sight, and no sign of the much-promised £350 million a week for the NHS, or an end to stagnant wage growth, the crippling cost of living and the energy crisis in the UK.

That brings me to this important new clause on exiting the European Union—an attempt to pin down the UK Government, shine some light on the well-hidden Brexit benefits, and require the Chancellor of the Exchequer to provide us with proper information and analysis to back up the Government’s claims. We are asking the Chancellor to publish a report on which of the policies included in the Bill could not have been introduced while the UK was a member of the EU. We are also asking for that report to include an evaluation of the costs and benefits of each provision.

Here is the thing: the Government might believe in Brexit. They might be convinced of the benefits of it, alongside their Opposition colleagues on the Labour Benches, but no matter what myths are busted every week in the real world, it is people in the UK who are bearing the brunt. That is the thin end of the wedge for our constituents, who want to know whether the Brexit-induced or Brexit-exacerbated hardships they face day to day—the astronomical levels of food inflation, the difficulties with European travel, and the closure of their exporting businesses due to jams and chaos at Dover—has all been worth it. Really, has it all been worth it?

[Gareth Davies]

I am happy to respond to new clause 4. The Government are committed to taking full advantage of the opportunities arising from the UK’s exit from the European Union, and we will make the most of our Brexit freedoms. Indeed, we have already set in motion a number of measures that capture those freedoms, whether it is the VAT relief on women’s sanitary products, cutting VAT on the supply of energy-saving materials or, as we have heard, measures in this Bill to reform our alcohol duty system. None of that could have been implemented had we remained in the European Union, and we will go further over the course of the months and years ahead.

As those reforms develop, we will routinely publish the impacts that they have, in exactly the same way as we do now and always have. An additional report is not necessary. Information on all changes is available in the Budget documents and the tax information and impact notes, outlining those impacts. I therefore urge the Committee to reject the new clause.

[Douglas Chapman]

I thank the Minister for his response. I have no intention of pursuing this new clause any further, but I hope the Government have taken these views on board and, if those broad and sunlit uplands are still there in their heads, let us make them a reality. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, That the Chair do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

Finance (No. 2) Bill (Third sitting)

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 18th May 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Victoria Atkins]

I do not have that information to hand, but I will endeavour to get it as quickly as possible and furnish the Committee with it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 315 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules 19 and 20 agreed to.

Clauses 316 and 317 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 318

Excepted machines etc

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)]

I am afraid you’ve got me, Mr Stringer. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

Clause 318 makes technical amendments to the legislation that restricts the entitlement to use rebated fuels to a number of qualifying uses from 1 April 2022 to adjust the restrictions and ensure the legislation operates as intended. It makes minor amendments to changes that were introduced in April 2022 to restrict the entitlement to use rebated fuels.

At Budget 2020, the Government announced that we would remove the entitlement to use rebated diesel and biofuels, including marked oils, from most sectors to help meet our climate change and air quality targets. The changes were legislated for in the Finance Act 2021 and amended by the Finance Act 2022. The changes ensure that most users of rebated fuels prior to April 2022 are now required to use fully duty-paid fuel, like motorists. That more fairly reflects the harmful impact of the emissions that they produce.

Following the implementation of the changes, the Government were made aware of a small number of unintended impacts on fuel users. This measure will make minor amendments in relation to them and will correct a technical issue in section 14B of the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979.

The changes in the clause will adjust restrictions on the entitlement to use rebated fuels to a number of qualifying uses, will qualify how the changes to the new rules work, and will allow the legislation to operate as intended. They will allow machines or appliances used to generate electricity or provide heating primarily for non-commercial premises to use rebated fuels even if they also provide some of the electricity or heat to commercial premises. They will also add arboriculture to the list of activities for which machines and appliances, other than vehicles, can use rebated fuels. That clarification will allow those working in the sector to use rebated fuels in the same machines and appliances as they did before April 2022.

The changes allow the use of rebated fuels in tractors and gear owned by lifeboat charities used to launch and recover their lifeboats. Finally, they make minor technical corrections to remove an anomaly of section 14B of the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979.

These changes reflect feedback received from stakeholders since the Finance Act 2022 received Royal Assent. The technical changes in the clause will ensure that the Government’s reforms to the tax treatment of rebated fuels made in April 2022 work as intended. I commend the clause to the Committee.

[James Murray]

As we know, at Budget 2020, the Government announced that they would remove the entitlement to use rebated diesel and biofuels from those sectors. As we heard, these changes took effect from April 2022, and they ensure that most users of rebated diesel prior to April 2022 are now required to use fully duty-paid diesel, as motorists do.

As the Minister set out, the Government have been made aware of unintended impacts of the legislation on fuel uses, so further amendments to it have been needed by way of the clause. As we heard, the clause amends the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979 to adjust restrictions on the entitlement to use rebated diesel and biofuels.

We understand from explanatory notes that the changes will affect businesses and individuals who use rebated fuels to provide electricity or heating to premises that are used for both commercial, and non-commercial purposes, businesses and individuals using machines or appliances other than vehicles for purposes relating to arboriculture, and charities operating lifeboats. I ask the Minister for further information on that last category. Can he help us better understand what issue the measures in the clause are seeking to address specifically in relation to charities operating lifeboats? Can he explain what impact the law, as it currently exists, has been having on those charities operating lifeboats?

[Gareth Davies]

Essentially, as the hon. Gentleman points out, the measure is to correct some unintended consequences. One of those does relate to lifeboats. The initial provision was to include lifeboats and their ability to use rebated fuel. It did not include tractors and geared machines, which enable lifeboats to get in and out of the water. It is not something that was raised as part of the consultation process initially, but it was raised after the legislation went through. We are now amending that to ensure that not only lifeboats but tractors and geared machines can use rebated fuel.

[James Murray]

I thank the Minister for his clear response on that point. Obviously, charities operating lifeboats are ones that we all seek to support and to ensure are not disadvantaged inadvertently by any laws. Has the Minister had any discussions with those charities about whether they have lost out because of the unintended consequences, and whether there will be any redress?

[Gareth Davies]

I personally have not had that engagement. I will look into what discussions have taken place, and I would be happy to report that back to the hon. Gentleman.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 318 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 319

Rates of tobacco products duty

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Gareth Davies]

Clause 319 implements changes announced at the spring Budget 2023 concerning tobacco duty rates. The duty charge on all tobacco products will rise in line with the tobacco duty escalator, with additional increases being made for hand-rolling tobacco and to the minimum excise tax on cigarettes. Smoking rates in the UK are falling, but they are still too high. Around 13% of adults are smokers. Smoking remains the biggest cause of preventable illness and premature deaths in the UK, killing around 100,000 people a year, and about half of all long-term users.

We have plans to reduce smoking rates further, towards our Smokefree 2030 ambition. To realise that ambition, the Minister for Primary Care and Public Health recently announced the next steps to help people quit smoking. Our policy of maintaining high duty rates for tobacco products will support the Government’s plan to reduce smoking to improve public health. According to the charity Action on Smoking and Health, smoking costs society £21 billion a year in England, as a result of sickness, disability and premature death, including £2.2 billion in costs to the NHS for treating disease caused by smoking.

At the spring Budget, the Chancellor announced that the Government will increase tobacco duty in line with the escalator. Clause 319 thus specifies that the duty charged on all tobacco products will rise by 2% above the retail prices index level of inflation. In addition, duty on hand-rolling tobacco increases by a further 6% above RPI inflation. The clause also increases the minimum excise tax—the minimum amount of duty to be paid on a pack of cigarettes—by an additional 1% to 3% above RPI inflation. The new tobacco rates will be treated as having taken effect from 6 pm on the day they were announced, which was 5 March 2023.

Recognising the potential interactions between tobacco duty rates and the illicit market, the Government intend to introduce tougher sanctions later this year to punish those involved in the illegal tobacco market. The Government also recently announced that HMRC and Border Force will publish an updated strategy to tackle illicit tobacco later this year.

This clause will continue our tried and tested policy of using high duty rates on tobacco products to make tobacco less affordable, and will continue the reduction in smoking prevalence towards a smoke-free 2030, as well as reducing the burden of smoking on our public services.

[Craig Whittaker (Calder Valley) (Con)]

On the Government’s ambition to reduce smoking, I briefly want to mention heating tobacco, in preference, I might say, to vaping.

The only problem with vaping, of course, is that there is absolutely no evidence of any health benefits or health risks. However, with heating tobacco, there is a huge amount of evidence, particularly from Japan, about its health benefits, in helping people to reduce and stop smoking. I just wondered whether the Minister has had any indication that heating tobacco has been looked at as an alternative to vaping. Of course, adding extra duties to it is an inhibitor to people reducing or stopping smoking.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

We are obviously dealing with a product that kills and, as the Minister said, cost the public purse £21 billion a year. That is why there is cross-party support for the tobacco duty escalator, which the Minister just outlined, explaining how it applies to current costs. It will increase the average price of a packet of cigarettes by 95p and the average price of a 30-gram packet of hand-rolling tobacco by £1.75. I have to say that hand-rolling tobacco is the tobacco product that is smuggled most, so we have to be particularly aware of that. The Minister will know that, if he has been to see Border Force. A 10-gram packet of cigars will go up by 48p, a 30-gram packet of pipe tobacco—again, that is a tobacco product that is often smuggled—by 63p and a typical 6-gram pack of tobacco for heating by 24p.

The Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that these increases will raise the amount of revenue taken by tobacco from £10 billion last year to £10.4 billion next year, which will actually return it to where it was the year before. Clearly, that is just an OBR estimate, but I presume that it is based on the work of and information given by Border Force and HMRC. If we are trying to get to a tobacco-free place by 2030, surely we need more progress than this kind of stasis on receipts. I wonder whether the Minister might wish to comment on that.

Clearly, the innovation of vaping is helping many people to give up smoking, but there are unknown health risks to vaping. In particular, would he comment on the way that vapes are being marketed at the moment in our society, with sweer flavours like bubble gum and melon, in a way that is clearly aimed at children. I do not think we should tolerate that. Will he give us a view rather than just saying that vaping is better than smoking cigarettes, which is clearly true?

What that does not include is the alarming rise in vaping among children, which is addicting them to nicotine in a way that might have difficult implications for public expenditure, health and their wellbeing if we allow it to continue. Will the Minister give us at least an early indication of his Department’s thinking on this juxtaposition?

Some organisations that do not think we are going far enough fast enough to eliminate tobacco as a habit to get to a smoke-free 2030 are proposing capping net profit margins on UK tobacco sales to no more than 10%—currently it is 50%—in line with the average for UK manufacturing. That could directly raise £700 million, which could fund the Khan review proposals, which contained a more radical way of trying to get us to the smoke-free target. Is the Department considering something more radical on revenue raising from tobacco products, given that progress has stalled?

As the Minister mentioned, and it is no surprise that he did, as soon as the tax goes up on tobacco products, the financial incentives to smuggle get greater. He mentioned there would be another smuggling strategy, which presumably will try to prevent the complete loss of revenue and lack of any capacity to prove whether the products being smuggled are even vaguely acceptable, because they are adulterated by all sorts, including brick dust. Will the Minister give us more information about what effect that will have on smuggling, because it is a constant problem?

[Gareth Davies]

There was quite a bit in there, but a lot of it was related, so I will do my best to address those points. First, to my right hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley, I will need to educate myself a little better on heated tobacco, but if he would like to write to me, I will provide a more detailed response. I will address his comments on vaping, together with those of the hon. Member for Wallasey, in a moment.

The hon. Member for Wallasey mentioned hand-rolling tobacco and the connection to illicit trade. I want to clarify for the Committee that the fact we are raising the rate so significantly—6% plus RPI—is to help hand-rolling tobacco prices catch up with cigarettes to help us towards our Smokefree 2030 ambition. I wanted to provide that clarity because I did not in my opening remarks. The hon. Lady alluded to various calls to do more and to raise prices even more, and she referenced the OBR’s estimates for that. I will take that, together with the point she raised about the Khan review recommendations. We have to get the balance right with this taxation, as the hon. Lady said. If it is too high, it is likely to push people into the illicit trade. That is a known fact. That is one of the reasons why we have not proceeded with the 30% suggestion from the Khan review. At every review, we are trying to get that balance while also seeking to improve our enforcement action on illicit trade.

I referred to the updated review from HMRC and Border Force that is coming out later this year. I do not want to pre-empt what it is going to say or what it may achieve, but I certainly await it with eager anticipation. I would also add that the Finance Act 2022 included new sanctions, such as enhanced penalties, to strengthen the agencies’ enforcement abilities. That is a key focus of the Government right now.

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[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss that schedule 21 be the Twenty-first schedule to the Bill.

[Gareth Davies]

Clause 320 and schedule 21 legislate to amend part 2 of the Finance Act 2017 to bring into scope the soft drinks industry levy on liquid flavour concentrates used in fountains, also known as dispensing machines, which combine added sugar with the concentrate when the soft drink is dispensed to produce a soft drink with at least 5 grams of sugar per 100 ml. The change takes effect from 1 April 2023.

The Government launched a consultation on the design and implementation of the soft drinks industry levy in August 2016 and set out a response confirming the broad policy approach. The soft drinks industry levy came into effect in April 2018 and supports the Government’s strategy to tackle obesity by encouraging reformulation at manufacturer level. The soft drinks industry levy applies to packaged soft drinks containing at least 5 grams per 100 ml of added sugar. Producers, manufacturers and importers of liable soft drinks must register a report and pay the soft drinks industrial levy on the volume of liable soft drinks packaged in and imported into the UK.

The soft drinks industry levy has driven substantial reformulation, resulting in a sugar reduction in soft drinks of 46% between 2015 and 2020 and the reformulation of more than 50% of sugary soft drinks in response to the levy. The changes made by clause 320 and schedule 21 will close a minor technical loophole within the soft drinks industry industrial levy, improving the consistency of its application. The changes are in line with the intent of the original legislation. The measures extend the definition of a soft drink liable to the soft drink industry levy to include packaged concentrates that are mixed with sugar when dispensed from a soft drink fountain machine. Other fountain machines used in the restaurant, retail and leisure industry that use a packaged syrup or concentrate containing added sugar are already in scope of the soft drinks industry levy.

The change will bring consistency across the soft drinks industry by ensuring that all packaged concentrates used in fountain machines, regardless of the stage when the sugar is added, are captured by the soft drinks industry levy. Existing soft drinks industry levy rules, including registration, rates, accounting and payment will apply to manufacturers and importers of flavour concentrates manufactured to be mixed with sugar in a dispensing machine. The change takes effect from 1 April 2023 and will bring consistency across the soft drinks industry by ensuring that all packaged concentrates used in fountain machines, regardless of the stage at which sugar is added, are captured by the soft drinks industry levy.

[James Murray]

I will speak briefly to clause 320 and schedule 21, which relate to the scope of the soft drinks industry levy. As the Exchequer Secretary set out, the result of these measures is that the levy will now apply to liquid flavour concentrates that are manufactured in, or imported into, the UK. The concentrates are products that are mixed with added sugar in a dispensing machine to dispense a soft drink for the final consumer.

The soft drinks industry levy was announced at Budget 2016 and came into force in April 2018. It has been targeted at producers, manufacturers and importers of soft drinks containing added sugar by encouraging the reformulation of drinks to reduce levels of added sugar and portion sizes, and the marketing of low-sugar alternatives and so on. We recognise that this technical change will bring liquid flavour concentrates within scope of the levy, and we will not oppose the clause.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I wonder which sugary drinks the Minister is addicted to—perhaps she will tell us when we are not sitting in public.

We are dealing here with a technical change to the successful sugar tax, if we can call it that. Again, when we are dealing with Ministers whose job is to get money into the Exchequer, it is strange to have to congratulate them for the declining level of soft drinks industry levy receipts. The tax has successfully delivered on the intention behind the policy, and receipts are down by £21 million for April 2022 to March 2023. That is an awful lot of ruined teeth and extra weight avoided, often for children, whose life chances can be negatively impacted by becoming addicted to sugar.

The consensus among public health officials is that the sugar tax has caused a decline in sugary drink sales, and the total amount of sugar in soft drinks sold by retailers and manufacturers decreased by 35.4% between 2015 and 2019, from 135,500 tonnes to a mere 87,600. That is a success as far as things go, but perhaps the Minister might assure the Committee that the Government will take credit for the success and that they intend to continue to push for lowering even further the 87,600 tonnes of sugar that are currently put in drinks, because there is uncertainty about the Government’s direction.

Two previous Prime Ministers have challenged the existence of sugar taxes. The right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip said that, on the current evidence, it is ambiguous whether they work, but I have just raised some evidence that shows unambiguously that they do. Similarly, the Prime Minister’s immediate and very short-lived predecessor, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), said that

“taxes on treats hit those on the lowest incomes.”

If I may say so, they might also account for the development of a trend that is quite shocking when one thinks about it. There is now a positive correlation being between poor and being obese.  As a society, we ought to tackle that, partially by using such methods, so that we can ensure that the correlation does not survive. We could bring to bear a range of other measures to ensure that happy outcome, but they would be completely outwith the scope of the Bill, so I will not talk about them.

We must, however, congratulate the Government on their introduction of sugar taxes. Since the current Prime Minister’s position is unclear, because he has both supported and rejected furthering a sugar tax, will the Exchequer Secretary tell us what the Government’s position is? Is he willing to stand up and take unambiguous credit for the success of the sugar tax and confirm to us that the Government’s intention is to continue making progress in this area in an appropriate way, with more than just technical changes for drinks fountains?

[Gareth Davies]

I am always grateful for the hon. Lady’s comments. I can answer her quickly. We are committed to the SDIL—the soft drinks industry levy—and we share her positive recognition of the sugar decline. With any tax considerations, however, we have to achieve a balance; we have to balance tax against cost of living concerns, as she pointed out, so all taxes remain under review.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 320 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 21 agreed to.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Andrew Stephenson.)

Finance (No. 2) Bill (Second sitting)

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 16th May 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 6 be the Sixth schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 45 and 46 stand part.

Clause 49 stand part.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms McVey. Clauses 44 to 46 and 49 introduce part 2 of the Bill, which delivers on the Government’s commitment to reform alcohol duty. Clauses 47 and 48 were debated in the Committee of the Whole House, which accepted that they should stand part of the Bill. The clauses change the structure of alcohol duty by creating a standardised series of tax bands based on alcohol strength.

At Budget 2020, the Government announced that they would take forward a review of alcohol. This legislation is the result of that review and makes changes to the duty structure for alcohol, moving from individual product-specific duties and bands to a single duty on all alcohol products and a standardised series of tax bands based on alcohol strength. In making these changes, the Government aim to support public health, encourage innovation and ensure that the duty system reflects modern drinking practices.

Clause 44 sets out what is meant by “alcoholic product” and points to definitions in schedule 6. Clause 45 explains the meaning of alcohol strength and gives HMRC the power to make regulations about how strength is to be determined for duty purposes. Clause 46 gives His Majesty’s Treasury the power to amend the categories of alcohol product and treat products as falling within a certain category, even though they may otherwise have fallen in another. Clause 49 explains when excise duty on alcohol is payable, how the amount is determined and how it is paid.

The changes made by the alcohol duty clauses are expected to impact up to 10,000 businesses that produce alcohol, import alcohol or supply it wholesale. This impact will be down to changes in how they calculate the amount of duty that is due on their products. The entire alcohol reform package will cost £155 million in 2022-23 and £880 million across the scorecard period.

To conclude, the clauses and accompanying schedule form an essential part of the Government’s ambitious reform of alcohol duty and will modernise the tax treatment of alcohol. I commend the clauses and schedule to the Committee.

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It would be incredibly helpful if the Minister could be clear that he intends and hopes that the guidance will come out as quickly as possible, so that people have as good an understanding of it as possible—I am talking about the guidance and regulation that is not in this Bill, but will follow. That would ensure that businesses and companies could make the best and most informed decisions.

[Gareth Davies]

That was an extensive display of preparation and reading, and quite right too, because that is exactly what we are here to do—scrutinise the Bill. Let me try to answer some of the many points that were raised in the three speeches. First, let me thank Opposition Members for their very generous and kind words. It is a great pleasure to serve in this position in the Treasury.

First out of the gate, let me say that the reforms were extensively consulted on; a lot of the comments related to that. As was pointed out, the reforms were first mentioned in 2020. The hon. Member for Wallasey is quite right: one of my first meetings was on this subject. Engagement with industry is paramount, and that is an ongoing process. Many in the various industries affected by the reforms very much welcome the public health focus that is driving this significant change. Many also welcome the simplification that we are bringing in across the board, and the fact that we are correcting several inconsistencies. I was asked by Opposition Members to give several examples. I can do that. One that springs to mind is the fact that sparkling wine pays 28% more duty than still wine, yet has significantly less or the same alcohol content. The driving principle behind the reforms is that the more alcohol in a product, the more tax that the producer pays. That is very clear for businesses to understand.

We were asked at the beginning about our support for businesses, and were told that businesses require certainty. I completely accept that, and we are providing it with the reforms. This is a massive simplification of our tax system for alcohol, and it builds on all the support that the Government have provided through covid and the energy crisis, as hon. Members will be well aware.

Let me try to rattle off a couple of quick responses to the hon. Member for Wallasey. I was asked about the differences in banding and how certain categories of alcohol can fall into different bands. That is true of spirits; Scotch whisky is required to be over a certain level of alcohol, but cocktails in a can and other items that I am aware of are lower in alcohol content, and so will have a lower tax requirement. That is very pertinent to businesses that have a portfolio of different products in their range.

The question about HMRC readiness is absolutely fair, and we are very confident that the processes have been put in place and businesses are ready to adapt to the new system. As I say, it is based on an extensive programme of consultation and engagement. The hon. Lady asked about exports. They are not subject to alcohol duties, although we are aware of the importance of exports to our alcohol industry. That is a live discussion that we have with the Scotch whisky industry all the time.

Let me address the point about the wine easement, which also relates to the question that the hon. Member for Aberdeen North asked about engagement with industry and others. There is a unique circumstance involving wine that comes from fresh grapes: the alcohol content changes by season, according to seasonal factors. That is different from fortified wine, which involves a more artificial process in which spirits are put into the wine to achieve a specific alcohol content. As part of the consultation that I mentioned, we listened to the wine industry, and for 18 months we have put in place a transitional arrangement for still wine of between 11.5% and 14.5% derived from fresh grapes to enable the industry to transition accordingly.

The hon. Member for Wallasey asked about draft relief. If she will forgive me, that was fully covered in Committee of the whole House, but she is right that it will benefit drinkers of pints in a pub over supermarkets. Draft relief applies to all alcohol below 8.5%. It is something that we are doing in support of beer drinkers and to support our community pubs, which are a vital part of all our communities.

Finally, I will just say that cider is also subject to the general principle that we seek to adhere to—namely, that the higher content of alcohol, the more cider producers will pay. Producers of super-strength ciders above 8.5% will pay more duty, but those of fruit ciders will pay significantly less. At the moment, on certain fruit ciders that are not apple or pear cider, producers pay two to three times the amount of duty. The outcome of these reforms will be a range of differential impacts for the cider industry. I will always support the cider industry, because it is incredibly important to the south of our country, but also to those across the country who enjoy drinking cider in the pub or at home.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

The Minister talked about simplification, and changing the system to make it easier for people to understand often brings important benefits. However, the reliefs that are coming in complicate it again. Is he satisfied that he has the right balance in extending the reliefs to the new simplified system, particularly the draft relief and the transitional relief?

As the person who brought in the small brewers relief, I have a certain attachment to it, although we will not be talking about that. What revenue does the Treasury believe these reliefs will rob it of, and does he think he has the right balance in imposing a more complicated relief-based system on his simpler system?

[Gareth Davies]

It is a fair question. We are seeking to simplify the entire system of alcohol taxation, and in the round that is broadly what we are doing. However, we are conscious that certain sectors are under acute pressure—smaller cider makers may have particular vulnerabilities to some of these reforms, for example, and we are mindful of that.

However, we are still applying the principle that I have discussed: the higher the alcohol content, the more tax will be paid. As I mentioned, the wine easement is a reflection of the particular and unique circumstances that I heard about from the wine industry. That is a transitional arrangement, not a permanent reform; overall, we are seeking to simplify the system.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I thank the Minister for his explanations so far. I want to get clarification on a few points. As I mentioned, clause 46 and schedule 6 have been drafted to allow the reclassification of categories. Is any guidance being drafted at the moment? Can the Minister give us more information about how the operation will be carried out to make sure that no issues are identified later? The legislation is not very clear.

To follow on from the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey, extra work will be given to HMRC as a result of this. I know that the Government have done work on the issue for some time, but I would like reassurance that adequate processes are in place. How much resource has been allocated to ensure that this is carried out? There will be extra work for HMRC to make sure that the alcoholic strength regulations are determined. It is important that we know whether there have been issues for HMRC in delivering because it has been under a lot of pressure. More information about that would be very helpful.

[Gareth Davies]

Let me answer the point about guidance. I assure the hon. Lady as well as the hon. Member for Aberdeen North that guidance will be issued very shortly. The hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead will be able to review that and it should answer a lot of the questions that she has just asked.

Let me repeat what I said about HMRC. The organisation has some incredibly hard-working staff who I have had the pleasure of meeting just in my first two weeks. As a Treasury, we have been preparing for this for quite some time. I have every confidence that our colleagues at HMRC are ready and waiting to implement the system. I have nothing further to add on this, so I urge that the clauses stand part of the Bill.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I have a brief comment about the guidance. I appreciate that a proportion of the stuff coming out is guidance so will not need to go through any parliamentary processes. However, some of the issues are to do with statutory instruments. Is the Minister satisfied that enough parliamentary time would be given for those, whether under the negative or affirmative procedure? Will they happen as quickly as possible? Clause 119 is about procedure and regulations. Will there be enough time for all that as well as for the less formal guidance coming through from HMRC?

[Gareth Davies]

We all take parliamentary scrutiny incredibly seriously and of course we will allow appropriate time for scrutiny of the Bill and all the guidance in the appropriate way.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Given the newness and thoroughness of the changes that the Minister has outlined, and obviously extensively consulted on, I am presuming that the Treasury will also have a review process once the introduction has happened, so that it can look at how the changes have gone and whether further tweaks are necessary. Certainly, but not surprisingly, some aspects of the industry at the higher ABV end wish the transitional arrangements for wine to be extended beyond 18 months, as the Minister would expect. Is there going to be a review process? Could the Minister briefly outline the kind of time scales that are on his mind?

--- Later in debate ---

[Gareth Davies]

All taxes are always under review, as the hon. Lady knows. The Treasury Committee, of which we were both members, plays a vital part in the scrutiny process—of course it does. That process started when the Chancellor appeared before it, and carries on through the parliamentary procedures we are going through right now. The Treasury is unusual in that it has two fiscal events per year—

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Or more!

[Gareth Davies]

I was waiting for that.

The Treasury has two fiscal events in which the full House has the opportunity to scrutinise our decisions. That also gives the Treasury the opportunity to review existing rates and systems, which is what we are doing as part of the spring Budget.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 44 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 6 agreed to.

Clauses 45 and 46 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 49 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 61

Mergers: general provisions

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 62 to 71 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 61 to 71 provide for transitional arrangements for small businesses that merge under the new small producer relief and provide definitions for terms used in the chapter.

The Government are committed to modernising and reforming alcohol duty. Part of the reform package is a new small producer relief for businesses that make alcoholic drinks of a strength less than 8.5% alcohol by volume. That will extend the benefit of progressive duty rates enjoyed by small brewers to the producers of other alcohol products. The provisions on mergers and acquisitions mean that small businesses that merge will not face a cliff-edge duty increase in the first year of the merger; instead, their duty rates will increase gradually over a three-year period. The clauses also include some general provisions around definitions for the purposes of the relief.

Clause 61 introduces the concept of a post-merger group, which is a company formed from the merging of two or more companies, and explains how each of the three years in the transitional period will be referred to. Clause 62 sets out the conditions which must be met for a newly merged business to qualify for the relief. Clause 63 explains what is meant by the “relevant production amount” during the transition period. Clause 64 explains what is meant by “post-merger amount”, which determines the level of relief available to newly merged businesses.

Clause 65 provides for termination of a transition period where the amount of alcohol produced by a post-merger group decreases. Clause 66 explains the treatment when another merger takes place during an ongoing transition period. Clause 67 explains the treatment of mergers involving more than two small producers at the same time. Clause 68 provides that that the transition period ends when businesses demerge. Clause 69 gives definitions of “production premises”, “production groups” and “connected premises” for the purposes of small producer relief. Clause 70 explains that the definition of “connected persons” for the purposes of the relief mirrors that in the Corporation Tax Act 2010. Clause 71 provides a table of expressions used throughout the small producer relief chapter.

Around 10,000 businesses in the UK produce alcohol, import alcohol or supply it wholesale. The clauses will help small businesses compete with larger businesses, such as multinationals, and support them as they grow. The entire alcohol reform package will cost £155 million in 2022-23 and £880 million across the scorecard period. These clauses and accompanying schedule form a key part of the Government’s ambitious alcohol duty reform and will support small alcohol producers to grow and thrive.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

The clauses under discussion in this group form part of chapter 3 on small producer relief, as the Minister mentioned. I thought it would be helpful to remind the Committee that Labour introduced the small brewers relief in 2002, and we are proud of the effect it has had in supporting small brewers, creating the vibrant UK beer scene, and supporting British business. We therefore support its extension to other producers.

In the context of small producer relief, clauses 61 to 68 specifically deal with the regulations and provisions for when mergers take place. Clause 61 sets out general provisions, determining that a merger of two small producers is to be called a post-merger production group, and is deemed to be in a transition phase for the three years following the merger. Clause 62 introduces modified conditions to determine whether the premises of two small producers that newly merge are small production premises for the purposes of small producer relief. A merged small producer will be eligible for small producer relief if the adjusted post-merger account does not exceed the small producer threshold of 4,500 hectolitres and if, for each set of premises in the group, fewer than half of the alcoholic products produced on those premises in the previous year were produced under licence.

Clause 63 sets out that, in calculating small producer relief for a post-merger group, the adjusted post-merger amount is used for the “relevant production amount” as set out in section 59. Subsection (3) sets out that the exclusion in clause 58(c) does not apply to the premises in a merger transition year. The Minister will not be surprised that I want to ask why that is the case. I cannot find anything about the purpose of the subsection in the explanatory notes, and it would be helpful to get the background as to why it exists.

Clause 64 provides a definition of the adjusted post-merger amount, which is used to determine eligibility and calculate the rate of small producer relief for companies transitioning post merger. Clause 65 sets out that a merger transition period will end early if the total amount of alcohol produced on all premises by a post-merger group in the preceding production year is less than the adjusted post-merger amount for the current year.

Clause 66 lays out provisions for subsequent mergers of alcohol producers. If a second merger takes place, the producer is no longer considered to be in its merger transition period for the first merger. The second merger could be considered a new merger transition period if the eligibility conditions are met. On the other hand, clause 67 lays out provisions for simultaneous mergers, setting out which producers will be considered the “larger producer” and the “smaller producer” for the purposes of determining the small producer relief. Clause 68 sets out what happens when a production group demerges and the regime to be applied for demerged businesses looking to receive small producer relief.

As we know, clauses 69 to 71 provide some guidance on the interpretation of chapter 3. Clause 69 lays out definitions of the terms producer, production premises, group premises and connected premises. Production premises are premises where alcoholic products are produced, including premises outside the UK. Group premises are all the premises on which the same person produces alcoholic products. A production group includes the group premises and all connected premises. A producer is a person who produces alcoholic products.

Clause 70 states that two people will be considered to be connected persons if they meet the test contained in section 1122 of the Corporation Tax Act 2010, although HMRC’s commissioners can overrule that if they think it necessary. Finally, clause 71 provides a table of expressions used in the small producer relief chapter. These clauses are all administrative in purpose, and we will not oppose them.

[Gareth Davies]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments. Let me start by acknowledging the success of small brewers relief. We have seen the number of breweries increase six times since its introduction, and I think we should applaud a good policy, wherever it originates. In fact, we are seeking to build on it by expanding its principles to the new small producer relief and extending it to all alcohol products under the parameters that she has outlined. There was a very specific point of clarification, which I am afraid I do not have to hand at the moment, but I am happy to set out in writing the detailed answers that she seeks.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 61 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 62 to 71 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 72

Exemption: production for personal consumption

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 73 to 81 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 72 to 81 reproduce existing exemptions and reliefs from excise duty on alcohol products. These reliefs and exemptions will continue to operate in the same way as they do now. To reform the alcohol duty system, we are legislating for a restructured duty system and two new reliefs. To ensure that all primary legislation relating to the production and use of alcoholic products is contained in one place, existing exemptions and reliefs from alcohol duty unaffected by the reforms but still needed in the new duty system have been re-enacted in the Bill. The relevant legislation in the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979 and Finance Act 1995 will be repealed.

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[Kirsty Blackman]

Alcohol hand sanitiser is obviously not for human consumption, but is it considered to be a medical item and so exempt under clause 76(2), or to be not fit for human consumption and so exempt under clause 79? However it is considered, will the Minister clarify that it is exempt from alcohol duty? Many of us had not often used it prior to 2020, but these days it is a significant part of our lives. It would be a concern if it received an alcohol duty charge, because it is part and parcel of keeping us safe and ensuring that we stop any further spread of covid or anything else.

[Gareth Davies]

As I set out at the beginning, the changes are largely administrative. To answer the question directly, there is no change whatsoever in terms of how the provisions are operationalised; they are carried over. The whole point is to consolidate the legislation in one place. I think our alcohol taxation system dates back to 1643, and the last change was in the 1990s. A lot of the changes are administrative, and the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead should take assurance from that.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I appreciate that a lot of these clauses are administrative. In that case, is the Minister able to tell me whether there has been any work done on unauthorised exemptions? Has that issue come up, does he have data on it and is he confident that unauthorised exemptions are being prevented? Could he give more information about what schemes or measures may be put in place? I appreciate that the clauses are administrative, but there is nothing in them about how to ensure that the system is not being abused.

[Gareth Davies]

There are penalties already in place if a person uses products or carries out activities that are not approved. The hon. Lady should take my assurance that these are carry-over provisions that come with the protections that we already have in place. I really do not have anything more to add, other than the fact that what was in existence prior to this legislation is being carried over. To answer the specific question on hand sanitizer, it is exempt.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 72 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 73 to 81 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 82

Approval requirement: producers

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 83 to 89 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 82 to 89 make changes to the approval and registration requirements for alcohol producers, ensuring that they are harmonised across all products. The new alcohol duty rates and reliefs will take effect from 2023, but the commencement of changes to approvals will come into force at a later date. The Government are committed to simplifying the current alcohol duty system, which is complicated and outdated. The clauses repeal and replace the Alcohol Liquor Duties Act 1979, as well as sections 4 and 5 of the Finance Act 1995.

The changes made by the clauses will standardise the approval processes for all alcohol producers, regardless of which alcoholic product they produce. Clause 82 sets out the requirement for a person to be approved by HMRC in order to produce alcoholic products. Clause 83 stipulates that an approval may cover multiple premises and product types, and that HMRC may vary or revoke an approval at any time. Clause 84 provides an exemption from the requirement to be approved for those who make alcoholic products for their own consumption, although that does not apply to spirits.

Clause 85 provides an exemption from the requirement to be approved for those who produce alcohol only for research and experiments. Clause 86 restricts the mixing of multiple alcoholic products except in certain circumstances. Clause 87 reproduces a section of the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979 with minor changes to update terminology. Clause 88 gives HMRC the power to make regulations regarding the administration and collection of alcohol duty. Clause 89 details the penalties and forfeiture that may apply if a person does not comply with the approval requirements. Overall, the clauses simplify and standardise approval requirements for alcohol producers.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

We come to chapter 5 of the Bill and a group of clauses concerning regulated activities and approvals. Clauses 82 and 83 would require any person producing alcohol products to be approved by HMRC as a fit and proper person to do so, as determined by the HMRC commissioners. Clauses 84 and 85 provide exemptions from the approval process, so that a person may produce alcoholic products for their own consumption or for research into, and experiments in, the production of alcoholic products without needing approval from HMRC.

Clause 86 restricts the mixing of multiple alcoholic products, except in certain circumstances, such as if it is done in an excise warehouse and the mixing occurs before the duty point; the alcoholic products being mixed are all of the same type and strength; or the alcohol duty on each product has been paid and the resulting mixed product is to be consumed at the place where the mixing took place, such as a pub or bar. Clause 87 sets out that a person cannot mix water or any other substance with alcoholic products if the mixing is after the duty point, the mixed product is to be sold, and the resultant product would have attracted a higher amount of alcohol duty if the mixing were done prior to the duty point.

Clause 88 provides for HMRC to make regulations concerning the production, packaging, keeping and storing of alcoholic products; charging alcohol duty in reference to a strength that might reasonably be reached; relieving alcohol products from alcohol duty in certain circumstances; and regulating prohibition of the addition of substances and mixing. Before the Minister says that these are all largely administrative clauses, which I do not dispute, these seem like quite wide powers. I am interested to see that they will be subject to the negative procedure. Perhaps he can explain why that is the case?

Clause 89 sets out the penalties or forfeiture that can occur if a person fails to comply with clauses 82, 86 and 87, and any regulations made under clause 88, as we have just discussed. As we know, this is an administrative set of clauses laying out a reasonable approval and exemptions process, so we will not oppose it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Angela Eagle]

It is obviously important, when we get on to enforcement, that we are confident that HMRC is on top of this. The Minister was a bit coy about when these clauses will come into being, so perhaps he can explain that, given that they are quite important. They are about the fitness, rightness and properness of the characters out there producing alcohol, who must be properly registered by HMRC.

The Minister gave the impression that this is just a technical thing—that it is a hold-over from older laws dealt with in a more simplified and perhaps modernised way—but he was not very explicit about how it will be simpler or modernised. Can he give us some idea? Will it all be done online? Is there some modernisation such as that? If he can give us a handle on how the administration of the scheme will change, that might give us an idea of HMRC’s intention.

The Minister is about to introduce a new scheme, whereby the taxation of alcohol is based on the alcohol by volume level. That creates a completely different incentive for adulteration along the production process. HMRC’s decisions about which category of duty a product is in become important in terms of what tax is due. That creates new forms of incentives for fiddling. I am not saying that everyone in the alcohol industry, by definition, wants to fiddle and avoid tax, but there will be temptations along that line, given the new focus on alcohol by volume as a way of calculating what tax is due. That makes adulteration and fiddling potentially much more valuable for avoiding tax. It also means that HMRC has to be vigilant in protecting revenue from those taxes.

Will the Minister therefore say a little about enforcement? Given the new dangers around alcohol by volume and the approach to what duties are due, will HMRC beef up its enforcement regarding not only approved producers but checking along the production line when decisions are made on what tax will be due on the particular product being manufactured?

[Gareth Davies]

Let me respond to those questions in turn, but I will come to the post-duty point dilution last, if that is okay. I was asked about scrutiny in the first instance by the Labour spokesperson, the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead. The powers mirror those that we have already, and we are putting exactly the same procedures in place in the Bill, but I will outline, and give an example of, how the Government could use the powers.

The powers allow HMRC to make adjustments to the new reforms by regulation, if needed. It will have that flexibility, given the scale and novelty of the reforms. That is a sensible precaution to allow HMRC to make changes quickly if the reforms are not working as intended. Today, reviewing and tweaking as necessary have come up consistently. We are carrying over a lot of the legislation, and this is one power, in particular, that we are able to use.

The overarching policy is one of simplification and putting in place a simpler, streamlined process, where we have one single approval process for all alcohol products, to answer the hon. Member for Wallasey. She also asked about HMRC’s readiness and, as I have already said, I have full confidence in our colleagues at HMRC to be able to process the changes and—she also asked about this—to enforce the rules, regulations and laws we are putting in place. Furthermore, we are looking to deliver a digitised application process, which will happen at a later date, once robust systems are put in place. As she would rightly expect, we want to get that absolutely right for producers first.

Let me directly answer the question of post-duty point dilution. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North raised that with my predecessor in 2018, and she is a great champion of her constituent, who raised the issue with her. Following the question to my predecessor, we introduced post-duty point dilution specifically to address wine, I think. We now go further by extending the provisions to all alcohol products and not just wine. That goes back to the overarching principle that we are trying to impose a consistent, simplified approach to all alcohol categories. That is why we are doing it, and we believe that it is impactful. I have no anecdotes, but if I obtain any, I will certainly write to her.

[Kirsty Blackman]

I appreciate the logic behind the original measure and behind the change. Had I been the Minister, I would have been talking positively about the change and about the fact that we are moving from made-wine and wine to everything. He is right that this is a simplification and a good thing, and it will ensure that everyone ends up paying the right tax. He is playing it down a bit by saying that it was just about terminology changes. That is another of the issues I had with the explanatory notes, which could also have sung the praises of the changes that are being made, rather than simply describing them as minor terminology changes to tidy things up. This is a change in the application, and I am glad the Minister has confirmed and clarified that from the virtual Dispatch Box. That will make this change easier for people to understand when they read about it in concert with the Minister’s statements in Committee.

[Gareth Davies]

I always take constructive feedback on presentation and talking up the policies we are implementing, so I completely accept that. For the record, we believe this is a really important anti-avoidance measure, which will protect the integrity of the duty system we are implementing, and I want to be really clear about that.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 82 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 83 to 89 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 90

Denatured alcohol

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clauses 91 to 97 stand part of the Bill.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 90 to 97 reproduce the existing exemption from excise duty on denatured alcohol. The exemption will continue to operate in the same way as it does now. As mentioned during the debate on clauses 72 to 81, we are legislating to ensure that all primary legislation relating to the production and use of alcoholic products is contained in one place.

No policy changes are made by these clauses. They reproduce an existing exemption from the charge of alcohol duty for denatured alcohol. In some clauses, changes to the structure and language have been made to modernise and simplify the legislation, but the operation of the exemption remains the same. The clauses reproduce the exemption for denatured alcohol, which is used for the manufacture of products that are not for human consumption, such as paint fillers, cosmetics and toiletries.

The clauses are an administrative measure to ensure that the current exemption for denatured alcohol will continue as now in the newly reformed alcohol duty system. I therefore urge that the clauses stand part of the Bill.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

We now come to chapter 6 of the Bill, which concerns denatured alcohol. Clause 90 states that the definition of “denatured alcohol” will be provided by the HMRC commissioners. Perhaps the Minister could give us an idea of what that definition might look like. The clause also sets out that alcohol duty will not be charged on denatured alcohol.

Clause 91 specifies that a person must be licensed as a denaturer to legally denature alcoholic products or be a wholesaler of denatured alcohol. Clause 92 provides the HMRC commissioners with a sweeping set of powers, such as allowing them to regulate the denaturing of alcoholic products and the supply, storage and sale of denatured products. Perhaps the Minister could outline the purpose of this wide set of delegated powers or give an example of where he would expect them to be used.

Clause 93 sets out that failure to comply with the regulatory regime for denatured alcohol, as set out in chapter 6, will attract a penalty under section 9 of the Finance Act 1994. Clauses 94 and 95 lay out the circumstances in which denatured alcohol is liable for forfeiture or penalty—for example, when a person produces or possesses more denatured alcohol than they are licensed to.

Clause 96 gives HMRC officers a power to inspect, at any reasonable time, premises being used to produce denatured alcohol, and to take samples. Finally, clause 97 lays out the circumstances in which it is an offence for a person to use denatured alcohol—for example, preparing denatured alcohol as a beverage or purifying denatured alcohol. Most of these clauses simply update and integrate into the Bill provisions already laid out in the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979, so we will not oppose them.

[Gareth Davies]

Let me again provide reassurance that we are not changing the definition of denatured alcohol, and we have no need to do so—this is a legislative update. However, the hon. Lady should know, for interest and further exploration, that the definition is found in the Denatured Alcohol Regulations 2005. In this measure, we are simply re-enacting existing powers. She should take reassurance from that.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 90 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 91 to 97 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 98

Definitions

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clauses 99 to 105 stand part.

That schedule 10 be the Tenth schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 106 and 107 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 98 to 107 and schedule 10 simply reproduce existing provisions for excise controls on anyone making wholesale transactions in duty-paid alcoholic products.

As mentioned during the debate on clauses 72 to 81, and clauses 90 to 97, we are legislating to ensure that all primary legislation relating to the production and use of alcoholic products is located in one place. Clauses 98 to 107 and schedule 10 reproduce the requirements for the wholesaling of controlled alcoholic products. Those controls and requirements will continue to operate in the same way as they do now.

To conclude, these clauses and schedule 10 are an administrative measure to ensure that all primary legislation relating to the production and use of alcoholic products for duty purposes are contained in one place.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

We now come to chapter 7 of the Bill, which concerns the wholesaling of controlled alcoholic products. Clause 98 provides several definitions relevant to the chapter, and clause 99 allows HMRC commissioners to make specific definitions concerning whether goods are to be considered wholesale or retail sale. Clause 100 lays out an approval process to allow a person to carry out wholesale activity. Again, that simply reproduces, with updated terminology, sections of the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979.

Clause 101 requires HMRC to keep a publicly available register of all approved wholesalers, and clause 102 provides HMRC with powers to regulate the wholesale system. I would be grateful if the Minister could humour me and give me more information on how the register will be made publicly available, what timescales have been given to HMRC and what publication dates will be required for that information.

Clause 103 turns the focus to purchasers of alcoholic products, specifying that a person may not buy controlled alcoholic products unless they are buying from an approved wholesaler. Clauses 104 and 105 and schedule 10 make it clear that a penalty could be incurred if a person knows, or reasonably suspects, that they have bought alcoholic products from someone who is not suitably approved.

Clause 106 defines a group for the purposes of the alcoholic product wholesaler provisions, and clause 107 provides definitions for some of the terms used in the chapter. We do not take issue with this set of clauses concerning wholesale transactions, and we will not oppose them.

[Gareth Davies]

I appreciate the points that the hon. Lady has raised. I reassure her that these are technical updates to consolidate the legislation, so that, for simplification purposes, we have in one place all the legislation for alcohol duty and measures—isn’t that a wonderful thing that we are doing?

The hon. Lady made a good point on communication. We will ensure that all communication is as good as it can be, and we will come up with further details on that in due course.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 98 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 99 to 105 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 10 agreed to.

Clauses 106 and 107 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 108

Reviews and appeals

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 11 be the Eleventh schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 109 to 112 stand part.

That schedule 12 be the Twelfth schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 113 and 114 stand part.

That schedule 13 be the Thirteenth schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 115 to 120 stand part.

[Gareth Davies]

Clauses 108 to 111 and schedule 11 make supplementary changes for the reformed alcohol duty system. The provisions are necessary consequential amendments as a result of changes made elsewhere in the Bill. Clause 112 and schedule 12 reproduce the requirements for duty stamps on alcoholic products. Those controls and requirements continue to operate in exactly the same way as they do now. Clauses 113 to 116 make changes to repeal outdated legislation and provide transitional arrangements for wine businesses and small cider makers as they move to the new duty system. Clauses 117 to 120 allow for regulations to be made to supplement the provisions in primary law.

The Government are committed to simplifying the current system for alcohol duty, which is complicated and outdated. As mentioned in debate on previous alcohol duty clauses, we are legislating to ensure that all primary legislation relating to the production and use of alcoholic products is contained in one place. Clauses 113 to 116 and schedule 13 repeal some parts of the Alcoholic Liquor Duties Act 1979 that are no longer needed, and they ensure that all primary legislation relating to alcohol duty is now contained in one place. They also include specific transitional provisions for cider and wine products, which face the biggest challenges as we move to the new strength-based system. Clauses 117 to 120 allow the Government to commence different parts of the primary legislation at different times by appointed day order.

Clause 108 and schedule 11 provide a right to reviews and appeals for decisions that HMRC makes. Clause 109 ensures that the forfeiture provisions across the reformed alcohol duty system are consistent. Clause 110 updates legislation relating to certain movements of alcohol products from a warehouse so that it applies equally to alcohol products removed from premises that have the new alcohol approval. Clause 111 extends brewers’ existing ability to offset a claim for refunds of excise duty against liability on their monthly return. Clause 112 and schedule 12 reproduce the requirements for duty stamps on alcoholic products. Those controls and requirements will continue to operate in the same way as they do now.

Clause 113 provides a list of repealed legislation. Clause 114 makes consequential amendments to other legislation, which is required as a result of the policy changes. Clause 115 is a temporary provision for producers and importers of certain wine products, to help them to manage the transition to a strength-based system. That will be in place for 18 months, and it will ease the administrative burdens of moving to calculating the duty on wine based on strength. Clause 116 is a temporary provision for small cider producers to maintain the effect of the exemption from registration and paying alcohol duty that they currently hold until the approvals provisions are given effect next year.

Clause 117 provides an index of terms used in this part of the Bill and references to where further detail can be found regarding each. Clause 118 provides a power to make regulations in relation to this part of the Bill and how the power may be used. Clause 119 explains the parliamentary procedure that must be used to make regulations using the various powers included in this part. Clause 120 concerns commencement and states that, other than these clauses and other regulation-making powers, none of the provisions in the Bill concerning alcohol duty takes effect until an appointed day order is laid.

These clauses and accompanying schedules are administrative measures that ensure that the Government’s ambitious alcohol reform is underpinned by modern legislation, and that the transition to the new system is smooth. The clauses conclude the part covering alcohol duty reform, and I commend them to the Committee.

[Abena Oppong-Asare]

With this group of clauses, we turn to chapters 8, 9 and 10 of the Bill concerning supplementary items, repeals, further amendments, transitional provisions and final provisions. Clause 108 and schedule 11 make relevant amendments to the Finance Act 1994. They appear to be purely administrative, but perhaps the Minister could clarify that? Clause 109 specifies that HMRC may destroy, break up, or spill anything seized as liable to forfeiture. Clause 110 inserts new subsections into the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979. As this is quite technical, perhaps the Minister could explain precisely what the clause achieves, because I found that the explanatory notes did not cover it in depth. [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Gareth Davies]

Let me first address the request from the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead for me to further explain certain clauses. Clause 108 ensures that the legislation works, basically, and detail is provided in the explanatory notes. If she requires more detail, I am happy for her to write to me. Clause 110 ensures that this measure works with amended legislation, because it is about the movement of alcohol from excise warehouses to authorised people. Clause 115 basically sets out the period of 18 months that I am about to address. Clause 116 relates to when the period ends and approvals come into force.

The hon. Member for Aberdeen North makes some good points, and she asked a good question about the 18-month period for the wine easement. It has been determined, through consultation and engagement with the wine industry, that 18 months is sufficient time for it to put in place the operational requirements, such as labelling, for it to be able to meet the alcohol reforms that we are making. As I set out at the beginning, some types of wine will see a reduction in duty. Simplification is driving these reforms, and we are moving to the principle that the more alcohol a product contains, the more tax it attracts, so there will be increases and decreases as part of all this.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 108 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 11 agreed to.

Clauses 109 to 112 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 12 agreed to.

Clauses 113 and 114 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 13 agreed to.

Clauses 115 to 120 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Andrew Stephenson.)

High Street Bank Closures and Banking Hubs

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Thursday 11th May 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

It is a particular pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Davies, because I know that if you were not in the Chair, you would be making an impassioned speech. I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) for bringing forward this debate. There is strong feeling on this subject across communities and constituencies, including mine. She spoke with great passion and knowledge on behalf of her constituents, whom she serves very well.

My hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn) quite rightly said that banking is changing. In recent years, innovation has led to an increase in online banking, which many people find quicker and more convenient than banking in branch. We know this from our experience, as well as seeing it in the data. In 2021, the industry body, UK Finance, found that 86% of UK adults made contactless payments; 72% banked online; and 57% banked using their mobile phone. That is not just young people. The latest data shows that more than 70% of people aged over 65 use online banking.

As the hon. Member for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock) pointed out, given the rise of online banking, we have to ensure that digital connectivity and mobile phone coverage are strong. In 2020, the Government announced a £1 billion deal with mobile operators to deliver the shared rural network, which will see operators collectively increase mobile phone coverage across our country. As for speed, in 2021 the Government launched Project Gigabit, which commits £5 billion to expanding gigabit coverage to 85% of households in the country.

The basic fact is that local bank branches receive fewer and fewer visitors because, frankly, many customers’ needs can be met digitally through video calls, banking apps or on the phone. In that environment, banks and building societies have a decision to make about how to provide in-person services to those who need them in the communities in which they operate. Those decisions are nuanced, local and, most importantly, commercial. The Government rightly cannot and do not intervene in them.

That being said, we recognise the real concerns expressed more widely about losing access to bank branches, which, as has been said, are important to many communities. For a variety of reasons, some members of our communities, such as those who are vulnerable, may need to do their banking in person. All firms should follow the FCA’s guidance to ensure that they carefully consider the impact of planned closures on their customers. That guidance sets the expectation that if a branch closes, firms will put in place reasonable alternatives in order to meet customer needs. Where firms fall short of that expectation, the FCA has the power to ask for closures to be paused, or for other options to be put in place.

[Wendy Morton]

I am interested to know the number of occasions on which an intervention has been made after a closure. I hope the Minister agrees that this is important. Banks should not close a branch and then review the engagement and so on, because then it is too late. Too much is happening on the back foot.

[Gareth Davies]

My right hon. Friend makes a good point. I will have the Economic Secretary to the Treasury write to her with any figures that we have on the pauses that have taken place as a result of FCA guidance. LINK carries out reviews in order to suggest and recommend the services that can be put in place. If there are no bank branches left in a community, a banking hub can be suggested. However, if my right hon. Friend will allow me, I will ask my colleague to write to her with more detail on that point.

The industry is innovating and finding new ways to respond to customers who want and need to access in-person services. I am pleased that we have heard a lot of discussion today about post offices, because they play a vital part in this issue. It is right to point out the statistics, which I was quite shocked to learn when preparing for this debate. Some 99% of personal banking customers, and 95% of business banking customers, can do their everyday banking—can do such things as withdraw cash or check their balance—at one of 11,500 post office branches across the country. I was also shocked to learn that 93% of people in this country live within just 1 mile of a post office, so almost everyone can access their everyday banking services locally.

[Kirsten Oswald]

Does the Minister appreciate that that will be cold comfort to people who no longer have a post office, or who have an on-and-off post office, which is not a very reliable way of doing business, or who do not live in the heavily populated areas that presumably make up that 99%? That is probably an unhelpful comment, in their opinion.

[Gareth Davies]

I accept the challenge, of course. The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) also asked me to comment on what support the Government are providing to post offices. I can respond to both points.

In the 2021 spending review, some £227 million was secured in Government investment between ’22 and ’25, including a subsidy of £50 million to protect access to post office services in commercially challenging locations. That later increased to £335 million, including a £150 million subsidy to those in commercially challenging locations. I therefore accept what the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald) says, but the reality for the 93% who live within 1 mile of a post office cannot be ignored. For those who are not within that catchment area, the Government have stepped in with subsidy and significant funding to ensure access to a post office.

[Tulip Siddiq]

We are lucky in this place, with two post offices that hardly ever have queues, but in my constituency there are massive queues outside the post offices, in which people have to wait a long time. Also, some of the services that constituents want to use a bank for are just not appropriate in a post office. Some post offices, certainly in my constituency, are based in WHSmith or another shop; it would not be appropriate to go in there to talk about personal banking services. Will the Minister comment on that?

[Gareth Davies]

What services banks provide is a commercial decision for them, but they provide a lot of different ways to interact with them these days, including several online options. As I pointed out right at the start, the majority of the British public access banking in those ways, whether online through a website, web chat or a mobile banking app, or via the telephone. Customers of commercial banks have a variety of ways to interact and get advice, and I would encourage them to do so. It is not the Government’s place to intervene in the commercial decisions of banks on what services they provide and where.

In addition to what I have just laid out on the variety of online services, many banks and building societies have programmes in place involving community centres, libraries, mobile banking vans or semi-permanent banking pods. The pods are structures that provide a dedicated private space to support customers with banking services. They can be moved around to different locations, depending on demand—the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) may wish to engage the banks on those for her area. For people who need to speak to their bank face to face, such places can make a vital difference.

Alongside those programmes, there is the high-profile innovation of shared banking hubs, which many Members have referred to in the debate. The hubs provide a dedicated space where customers can meet community bankers, who support them with more complex services. The hubs also offer a range of everyday banking facilities, allowing customers to deposit cheques, check their balance, and withdraw and deposit cash. More than 50 shared banking hubs have been announced for communities across the country, as has been said. Four have opened their doors already and two more are expected in the coming weeks.

[Wendy Morton]

Does the Minister agree that 52 hubs are due to open, which is great, but only four have opened? What more can he or his Department do to encourage, or gently push or prod, the organisers of the hubs to get them in place? The point made by Members across the Chamber today comes down to banks closing and hubs not opening.

[Gareth Davies]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend. The Government recognise and share the frustrations that she has voiced about the pace of the roll-out of the hubs. Those are commercial arrangements and the industry is working to deliver the hubs quickly. We expect the delivery to accelerate over the coming months, but I share the frustration. The Government have laid out very clearly, as I have today, our expectation: we want the delivery to speed up. We welcome these initiatives, which clearly demonstrate how innovation is supporting access to banking in the longer term. We believe that the impact of branch closures should be mitigated where possible, so that all customers, wherever they live, continue to have access to appropriate banking services.

We are also taking strong steps to protect access to cash, as has been asked of me today. It is true that electronic payments are being used more and more, and cash less and less. Over the last decade, the use of cash to pay for goods and services has declined by almost three quarters. However, cash continues to be important for millions of people across the UK, including businesses and people who may be in vulnerable groups. There is, as ever, a balance to be struck. As more and more people and businesses embrace the benefits of new payment methods, the Government should not stand in the way, particularly when those innovations can make it easier to start and grow a business or to manage family finances, but we must offer reassurance and protection for those who do need cash.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills asked me to make a commitment on this, and I will say that the Financial Services and Markets Bill, which is going through Parliament right now, does just that. It will enshrine access to cash in legislation. In doing that, we are helping to ensure that everyone, whoever they are and wherever they live, is able to manage their finances in a way that works for them. I hope that that commitment has been heard today by not just my right hon. Friend but many of her constituents, who I know will be concerned about that.

Like many of the speakers in today’s debate, the Government understand the challenges that these changes have brought, and the nervousness that can accompany any change, but supporting customers, communities, businesses and people across the country remains our key duty. Of course, we will always welcome innovation, especially in financial services, to support competition and grow our economy. We will continue to work with the sector, the public and all Members across the House to ensure that we have a modern, flexible banking system that caters to the needs of every person and business in our country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

4. What fiscal steps he is taking to support businesses with energy costs.

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

The energy bills discount scheme will provide all eligible businesses and other non-domestic energy users with a discount on high energy bills for 12 months from 1 April 2023 to 31 March 2024. It will also provide businesses in sectors with particularly high levels of energy use and trade intensity with a high level of support. The scheme will help those locked into contracts signed before recent significant falls in the wholesale price manage their costs and provide others with reassurance against the risk of prices rising again.

[Christine Jardine]

Speaking to businesses in my constituency of Edinburgh West over the past week, I have been hearing that they are not finding the help that they need. The combination of the cost of living crisis, energy costs and business rates is pushing them towards a crisis. The Federation of Small Businesses estimates that 93,000 small businesses could go out of business this year because of high energy costs. Do the Government accept that more will have to be done, particularly to help small companies renegotiate tariffs, and will they tell me what they intend to do about that?

[Gareth Davies]

The hon. Lady raises an incredibly important point, and this Government are very alive to the issues that businesses face across the country. She will be aware that, last year, the energy bill relief scheme was unprecedented in its nature and scale, and that the Government were always clear that that would be time limited and intended as a bridge for businesses as wholesale gas prices come down. Those prices have now come down quite significantly, but we do have the energy bills discount scheme, which strikes the right balance between supporting businesses for another year, but also limiting the taxpayers’ exposure to volatile energy prices.

[Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)]

The Treasury was quick to act during the pandemic when hoteliers in Aberconwy told me that banks were directing them to their premium lending products instead of the Government’s coronavirus business interruption loan scheme. Now those same hoteliers are telling me that the energy supply market seems to have failed. They are seeing their bills tripling just as market rates drop below Government support levels. They fear that the supplier’s thumb is on their side of the scales. None of this will be new to the Minister, so can he please tell me what he is doing and can he meet me and sector representatives to make sure that some common sense is brought back to energy supply contracts?

[Gareth Davies]

My hon. Friend is a great champion of businesses in his constituency. In the first instance, I advise businesses always to contact suppliers to discuss their contracts. We are alive to the fact that some businesses are having difficulties securing the benefit of falling wholesale prices from their energy suppliers. In January, the Chancellor wrote to Ofgem, which oversees the energy market for consumers, and Ofgem has now launched an investigation into the non-domestic energy market. We await its conclusions, and, at that point, I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

5. What recent steps he has taken to reduce the rate of inflation.

Funding for Major Infrastructure Projects

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd May 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Gareth Davies)]

It is a great pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Sharma, particularly as this is my first outing as a Minister in Westminster Hall. What a great start!

There has been a really informed, detailed and, if I may say so, courteous display of speeches. The central core of every one of them was a deep care for our national infrastructure and a recognition of how important it is to all our constituencies. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) on securing the debate—at the last minute, I hear, although you would not know it—and thank hon. Members for all the other contributions. I will try to cover off some of the points raised in the time available.

Good infrastructure acts as a knot that ties our communities and our Union together. It is a vital part of how we protect our environment and helps us to unlock economic potential. The Government, right up to the Prime Minister and Chancellor, are absolutely committed to delivering the long-term economic benefits derived from capital investment and infrastructure schemes. We want to build infrastructure that is modern, efficient and accessible to everybody across our four nations.

During this Parliament there has been a step change in how we fund national infrastructure, underpinned by our national infrastructure strategy, which was referenced by my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond). To achieve the aims of the strategy we are increasing funding; we have a strategy and we are matching it with funding. That was announced in the spending review of 2021. A multi-year settlement provided £100 billion of investment in economic infrastructure for this spending review period. That includes over £35 billion for rail investment—including, yes, HS2, which I will come to in a moment—and other rail enhancements to boost connectivity across our country. In the longer term, our integrated rail plan, published in November ’21, committed £96 billion for rail construction and upgrades, representing the biggest ever single investment into our rail network. It will deliver a modern network that will benefit small towns and big cities, boost productivity and bring our communities closer together.

The hon. Member for Bath referred to HS2, so let me address that head on. It is a key part of our rail strategy—a long-term investment that will improve connectivity across the country and provide a low-carbon alternative to cars and planes for many decades to come. It is already supporting tens of thousands of jobs. The Government remain absolutely committed to delivering HS2 from Euston to Manchester, and continue to push on with the sections in peak construction so that the first high-speed services—running from Old Oak Common in west London to Birmingham Curzon Street—can be delivered between 2029 and 2033.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I share the Minister’s wish for HS2, but it is just that because there are so many delays, we are losing the public. Is it not important that the Government really come clean and say, “We will deliver this, and it will be great for this, that and the other reason,” rather than putting doubt into people’s minds that it might not be delivered, might be only half-delivered, or whatever it is? Let us go out there and really sell this as a great improvement to our rail infrastructure. Does the Minister not agree?

[Gareth Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady, although I think we are selling it. She is absolutely right: it will boost productivity. It is creating jobs, as I have said, and it will boost connectivity. It is important that we all do go out and sell that. However, we have to be real: we have to balance the need for high-speed rail with sustainable public finances and respond to events as they happen around the globe. That is the reality of what we are doing with the recently announced rephasing. This is true for construction projects all over the country and, if I may say, in many parts of the world; we face significant inflation as a result of Putin’s war in Ukraine and supply shortages coming out of covid. We are reacting to that as hon. Members would expect any reasonable and responsible Government to do.

The hon. Member for Bath referenced the National Audit Office report—I can tell her that we are looking at that report very carefully and will respond in due course. However, the point I am trying to make is that on HS2 is that it is vital and we are committed to it, but we have had to make difficult decisions and choices in order to balance the need for both robust transport infrastructure and robust public finances, which we will always do for the British people.

More broadly, as has been mentioned by many speakers, we are improving rail connectivity and restoring our transport services across the country, but in particular to reverse the 1960 Beeching cuts. It is important that we expand the rail network as well as improving the existing rails.

In the interest of time, I will pick up some of the direct points raised by hon. Members. The hon. Member for Bath should be aware that I am briefed on the M4, which she mentioned—even though I am only a week in, I know about the M4 connection to Dorset. The hon. Lady will know that the DFT commissioned a study by National Highways on that route, and its outcomes are being carefully considered by the Government and wider stakeholders. It is a live discussion and we look to come back on that very soon.

The hon. Member for Bath and my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon also made some excellent points on rail electrification. The hon. Lady should be aware of the transport decarbonisation plan, which will deliver a net zero railway by 2050. She referenced some specific statistics, and I will respond with a couple of my own: since 2010, we have electrified 1,224 miles of track, of which 1,000 miles have been installed in the past five years alone—compared, by the way, with just 70 miles electrified in England and Wales between 1997 and 2010. I think we are doing a pretty good job, although there is more to do. I do not think anybody would deny that.

The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) made a very insightful and interesting speech about the challenges his constituents face. I will look into the issue he raised about Treasury responsibility for the pot and come back to him.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon said eloquently that these things do not all rest on Government finances; the Government cannot pick up the tab for all our infrastructure projects. The benefits of our national infrastructure strategy will be secured through Government and private funding, so we will win the prize by mobilising private capital investment. Almost half of the UK’s future infrastructure pipeline is forecast to be privately financed, and the Infrastructure and Projects Authority recently estimated that the total infrastructure investment for the next decade across the public and private sectors will be nearly £650 billion.

As my hon. Friend mentioned, we are building on a strong base. The UK is a great centre for private investment. We have a strong system of regulation, a strong legal framework that is replicated all around the world, and a leading financial and services sector that helps to mobilise private capital. He talked about the bond market, and as he knows we are one of the leading issuers of green gilts. We are doing a lot to help mobilise private capital, but critical to our financing will be the mechanisms and institutions that we have available to mobilise private capital. That is why, when I was a Back-Bench MP, I was delighted to join him in the debate on the UK Infrastructure Bank, which will play a massive role in funding the projects that people around the country rely on. It has been set one mission: to partner with the private sector and local government authorities to increase infrastructure investment in pursuit of two objectives. The first is to tackle climate change, and the second is to support regional and local economic growth through connectedness, opportunities for jobs and higher levels of productivity. As it stands, £22 billion of financial capability has been provided to the bank, and we expect it to crowd in private capital investment and support more than £40 billion of infrastructure investment. To date, it has already announced 15 deals worth more than £1.4 billion, covering clean energy, digital infrastructure and green transport. That will be transformational.

A lot of Members mentioned net zero, which is absolutely critical. What every party has in common is our commitment to the health of the planet. We are world leaders in fighting climate change and galvanising action on the global stage, as we saw at COP26, and we are right to do that at home with our net zero pledge. The UK already has a world-leading track record of delivering decarbonisation. We have reduced emissions faster than any G7 country since 1990. By the way, we have grown our economy by 75% over the same period.

The Government are committed to a total of £30 billion of domestic infrastructure for the green industrial strategy. Since March 2021, an additional £6 billion for energy efficiency was committed at the autumn statement, and £20 billion for carbon capture, utilisation and storage was announced at the spring Budget. We have in place a clear strategy to deliver on our net zero obligations, deliver energy security and drive economic growth.

To Members who question our ambition and ask whether it is achievable, I say look at what we have already done. Some 71% of all UK households have access to gigabit-capable broadband—an uplift of 8% since November 2021—and we are on track to reach a target of 85% coverage by 2025 and at least 99% by 2030. Some 92% of the UK has access to 4G mobile coverage, and we are on track to meet the Shared Rural Network target of 95%, which has a big impact on Scotland. We also had the opening of the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Abbey Wood. Those are all high-quality infrastructure priorities and projects, and other crucial projects will be announced for economic growth, boosting productivity and competitiveness.

We will go on. We will continue with our strategy, our funding and our prioritisation of national infrastructure. We will transform our railways, including HS2 to Manchester, East West Rail and the Northern Powerhouse Rail core network. We will secure the UK’s energy security through delivering new nuclear power, including Sizewell C, and the roll-out of cheap, clean renewables, including wind and solar.

Infrastructure offers us one of the most exciting and efficient direct ways of improving living standards, boosting our economy and supporting our communities, and I appreciate the opportunity to outline that today.

Financial Services and Markets Bill (Seventh sitting)

Gareth Davies Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 1st November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Siobhain McDonagh]

My amendments 16, 17 and 18, together with new clauses 10, 11 and 12, address access to free cash, which is indisputably important in our society. Ten per cent. of UK adults—5.4 million people—continue to rely on cash to a great or very great or extent in their daily lives. One in five people says that they would struggle to cope in a cashless society, and that struggle would disproportionately affect those on lower incomes, the elderly and people with physical or mental health difficulties.

Without Government intervention, we are losing free access to cash in our society. In my constituency, the number of free-to-use ATMs has declined by 36% in the last five years, while the number of pay-to-use ATMs has increased by an extraordinary 22%—there is money to be made somewhere. The problem is not confined to Mitcham and Morden: since 2015, the UK has lost more than half its branch network—5,003 branches—at a terrifying rate of 54 branches each and every month.

Through my amendments, I wish to draw the Committee’s attention to the notable decline in the provision of free-to-use ATMs. Since August 2018, the UK has lost 12,599 free-to-use ATMs—a decrease of nearly 24%. Meanwhile, almost a quarter of ATMs now charge people for access to their own cash. It is no wonder that more than half of consumers experienced one or more issues accessing cash at a bank branch in the past year.

Who are the losers in this cashless society? The access to cash review unsurprisingly revealed that those earning less than £10,000 per year were 14 times more likely to be dependent on cash than those earning more than £30,000 per year, and yet they are the residents of the areas where free access to cash is hard to come by.

Take Pollards Hill in my constituency, where a ridiculous clause in the lease prevents the new Co-op from opening a free-to-use ATM because of two paid-for cash machines further down the row of shops. Residents are taking out small sums of money in order to control their budgets, some of them at just £10 a time, but they are charged £2 to take that out—a 20% charge for every single payment. They literally have to pay for access to their cash. Surely the legislation must be tightened to avoid imposing additional costs such as that on the most hard-pressed.

I believe that the need for access to cash is growing. Age UK highlights that one in five older people still relies on cash for everyday spending. The cost of living crisis has seen households reliant on cash counting out the pennies to ensure that they can make ends meet—it is no wonder that in August, the Post Office handled its highest total of cash ever. The evidence is overwhelming and I believe that there should be a societal duty on the Government to ensure that the most vulnerable people in our society have free access to cash and are not left behind.

It is not just me who has such concerns. The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd (Dr Davies), now the Under-Secretary of State for Wales, stated on Second Reading that he hoped the Government would commit to protecting free cash withdrawals and deposits, presumably in light of Prestatyn losing TSB, Barclays, HSBC, NatWest and Royal Bank of Scotland in recent years, initially leaving the town’s high street without a single bank or cash machine despite being a major regional shopping centre.

On 19 April, the hon. Member for Beaconsfield tweeted after the announcement of bank branch closures in her constituency that she would take up the issue in Westminster, describing crisis talks with the banks on access to cash on high streets everywhere as essential. I am sure she agrees that this is the moment to vote where her voice was.

The hon. Member for Havant has seen at first hand how damaging the removal of access-to-cash provision has been for his most vulnerable constituents, having launched campaigns against TSB, NatWest, Barclays and HSBC in recent years, and having raised his concerns with HSBC about the potential impact on the elderly, who might not be able to access online banking and are reliant on face-to-face services. The hon. Member for Orpington has seen Nationwide, Santander and Barclays close in Petts Wood. He pledged to hold the latter to account in support of those residents who do not use mobile or online banking. Well done to that Member!

The hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford, in advance of the closure of the HSBC branch in Bourne, shared concerns with his constituents about the impact on his elderly constituents whom he said relied on the bank as a vital service in the town centre.

[Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making a fantastic speech—let me say that straight out of the gate—but may I clarify that her proposed access-to-cash solution is for the Treasury to make an intervention on the regulator?

[Siobhain McDonagh]

I do not believe that the regulator, the FCA, will force through free access to cash unless we legislate for that. As Members, we are responsible for that. I suppose I am trying to say that hon. Members are doing their job excellently by highlighting concerns in their constituencies. Even though we have been through a very rough time in politics and a lot of our constituents are unhappy about the turbulent times we have entered, many of them still have faith in democracy, party politics and our system because Members do that sort of work. I believe that we need to follow through when we are given the power to do so.

I have more. The point was even more strongly expressed by the hon. Member for West Bromwich West, who made a powerful speech. Following HSBC’s decision to close its branch in Wednesbury, he gave this message to his constituents:

“The argument of go to West Brom is not good enough! I am determined to fight this”—

good on him!

The hon. Member for North Warwickshire described the impact on local residents as “obvious” when the Lloyds Bank branch closed, leaving Coleshill High Street without a bank branch. As an MP for a rural constituency, the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye detailed her concerns to our witnesses last week about her constituency being able to access cash free, and about the distance her residents would have to travel otherwise.

I do not doubt that my constituency neighbour, the hon. Member for Wimbledon, shares my concern about the loss of cash machines and bank branches in Morden town centre, which we share. One of the only remaining free-to-use ATMs is hidden in a Cashino—an arcade. That is extraordinary.

Government Members need not worry: the new Chancellor shares their view. He was pictured in the Alton Herald just last November celebrating the arrival of a new free-to-use cash machine in his constituency. I say to the Minister: do not worry. If these amendments pass, the Chancellor is right behind you.

Given what appears to be an overwhelming consensus on the issue, I hope Members on both sides of the Committee acknowledge that the Bill needs to be amended to ensure not only that there is access to cash but that there is free access to cash. They will be lauded in articles in their local newspapers and posts on Twitter and their social media for passing these amendments.