Finance (No. 2) Bill (Third sitting)

Victoria Atkins Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 18th May 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

We are now sitting in public, and the proceedings are being broadcast. I have a few preliminary announcements.

Owing to a printing error, Government amendment 9 was missing from the amendment paper issued earlier this morning. That omission was rectified, and the correct version of the amendment paper is available in the room, from the Vote Office and online.

Hansard colleagues will be grateful if Members could email their speaking notes to [e-mail]. Electronic devices should be on silent. Tea and coffee should not be brought into the room. It is getting a bit muggy, so any Member wishing to take off their jacket may do so. We now continue line-by-line consideration of the Bill.

Clause 313

Transactions funded with the assistance of a public subsidy

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Victoria Atkins)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer.

As a matter of housekeeping, I should say that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ealing North, asked me questions on Tuesday regarding the implementation of changes to the company share option plan, and I committed to write to him with those details. That letter has gone to him this morning, with copies deposited in the Libraries of the Houses. Indeed, I have also arranged for it to be sent to the other Committee members, for their convenience.

The clause will amend existing stamp duty land tax rules to ensure that registered providers of social housing are exempt from the tax when purchasing property using funding allocated under section 31 of the Local Government Act 2003. In December last year, the Government announced an additional £650 million for the Homes for Ukraine support package, which included giving local authorities in England an additional £0.5 billion to reduce homelessness by obtaining housing to reduce pressure on social housing and to help accommodate Ukrainian and Afghan refugees. On 28 March this year, the Government announced a further £250 million of funding, the majority of which will be used to house Afghan families in bridging accommodation. The rest will be used to ease existing homelessness pressures.

The additional funding, as I said, is allocated under section 31 of the Local Government Act, and the existing stamp duty land tax system includes an exemption for social housing purchases. However, not all social housing providers in receipt of the additional funding would benefit from those exemptions, so we are looking to correct that and to enable registered providers of social housing to benefit from the exemption when they use the new funding. It is a sensible clarification and I hope that the Committee will support the clause standing part of the Bill.

[James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve in Committee with you as Chair, Mr Stringer.

The acquisition of certain properties by registered social landlords is exempt from stamp duty, provided that the purchase is funded with the assistance of public subsidy. As the Minister set out, in December last year the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities announced an additional £500 million in funding for local authorities to secure additional housing stock for those fleeing conflict, including those from Ukraine and Afghanistan. We understand that that additional funding was allocated under section 31 of the Local Government Act, and the clause will add that section to the list of public subsidies that enable a purchase to qualify for the stamp duty exemption. For the purposes of the stamp duty exemption, we understand that local authorities that intend to register with the Regulator of Social Housing are treated as not-for-profit registered providers of social housing.

The explanatory notes state that £500 million was announced for the local authority housing fund in December 2022, and I welcome the Minister’s assurance that the additional £250 million announced since will also be covered by this clause. We will not oppose the clause, as any support it offers to local authorities that buy homes to provide social housing is welcome.

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[Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. The hon. Member for Wallasey just asked about the length of the funding. As MPs, we all have hard cases to deal with involving refugees from other parts of the world. What funding will be given to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland so that the devolved Administrations can implement their own schemes?

[Victoria Atkins]

I can answer yes to the question that the hon. Member for Ealing North asked about the £250 million.

On the question that the hon. Member for Wallasey asked about the number of houses, DLUHC has estimated that it will be about 1,300 homes. She will understand—indeed, we discussed this when I was Minister for Afghan Resettlement—that one of the complexities with Afghan families is that their larger family sizes mean that there is not the availability of housing stock that there is for slightly smaller families. That is why it is taking a bit of time.

The hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife asked about Scotland, and I commit to write to him. This is across the board, so I imagine the scheme will be UK-wide, but I will get that confirmation for him by the end of the sitting.

[Samantha Dixon (City of Chester) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Stringer. According to the Home Office figures that were issued at the end of April, there are 8,000 Afghans currently in UK hotels, half of whom are children. On the point about revisiting this at a future date, does the Minister think the Government have done enough?

[Victoria Atkins]

I must direct the hon. Lady to the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, who is now leading on that. He has overall control of the programme of rehousing for Afghan refugees, and the Homes for Ukraine scheme—obviously that is a very separate system. The scheme is one of the tools available to the Government, which is why we are making the stamp duty changes to assist local authorities in their efforts to find homes for refugees. It will not be the only way in which we find accommodation for those families; there are other ways, including the military helping with accommodation for those who formerly served or helped the armed forces when they were in Afghanistan. It is one tool, and we want to make it as easy as possible for local authorities to use. I encourage the hon. Lady to speak to the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs, who is leading on the issue.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Another question occurs to me: is the scheme only for Afghans and Ukrainians, or does it accommodate other homeless people who are fleeing conflict? It is clear that those who have fled Afghanistan and Ukraine are in a pretty unique position, with special schemes attached. Could the Minister put it on the record that the exemption may then also help others who are in a similar situation, but not in those categories?

[Victoria Atkins]

I am very happy to. The scheme is certainly not restricted to Ukrainian and Afghan refugees. It is designed to meet all local authority social housing needs. It is a measure to help alleviate overall social housing pressures on local authorities, precisely because we realise that the enormous generosity of the United Kingdom in helping Ukrainian and Afghan refugees has put increased pressures on local authorities when it comes to social housing. We want to ensure that this is sorted out for local authorities, as part of our humanitarian response to those crises—we are also long enough in the tooth to understand that there may be other humanitarian crises in the future.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 313 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

[Victoria Atkins]

On a point of order, Mr Stringer. Before we move on, in relation to the clarification that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife asked for, stamp duty applies only in England and Northern Ireland. Scotland and Wales have their own land transaction taxes. Obviously, we are very happy to work with the devolved authorities if there is a point of clarification that they need on that.

Clause 314

Deposit schemes

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Victoria Atkins]

Clause 314 makes changes to the Value Added Tax Act 1994. Those changes will enable further secondary legislation designed to ensure that businesses only account for VAT on the price actually paid for bottles or drinks containers covered by deposit return schemes. Such schemes are being introduced across the UK to encourage the recycling of containers, and under existing law VAT is due on the full price paid for a drink, including any deposit.

Existing rules do not permit VAT adjustments for deposit scheme refunds. That means that under the current law VAT would be collected on drink deposits, even though they have been refunded. We do not want that to happen, because we want to support the environmental aspirations of such measures. The changes made by clause 314 will address that, by removing the need to account for VAT on the deposit amount when it is charged. The new rules will require VAT to be accounted for only on unreturned deposits.

To avoid complexity for both consumers and businesses, only the business that makes the first sale of the drink with a deposit will be required to account for VAT on unreturned deposits. What that means in practice is that producers and importers will be the ones liable to account for it on their VAT returns. We have tried to protect both consumers and small shops—corner shops, newsagents and the like—from having to deal with any VAT complexity from the measure. When drinks containers are returned, they will be scanned, and the consumers will receive a refund of the deposit. It will not touch them; they will get the money back that they put forward. Information on numbers of returned products will be collected and passed to the business that made the first sale of the product on which a deposit was charged.

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[Samantha Dixon]

Clearly, this is a complex piece of work that has taken a great deal of time, but I get the sense that the Government may be kicking the proverbial recyclable can down the road. Taking it piecemeal without a comprehensive view across the whole UK does not seem to be the best approach. Could the Minister speak to that?

[Victoria Atkins]

On the last point, I gently redirect the hon. Member’s observation about a piecemeal approach. That is probably more for the Scottish Government to answer because we would very much like to be acting in tandem. By the way, I am responsible for only the VAT elements, so questions about the wider design of the scheme, including whether glass is included, must be directed to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

I have been holding that wet towel over my head at night thinking about this. For example, what happens if somebody buys their bottle of drink just north of the border, pops over to visit Newcastle for the day and wants to get rid of that bottle? There are practical considerations. With some of this—and the Scottish Government are in this position as well—we will have to see how consumers behave. I hope that the scheme will be an enormous success and that the producers will pay the VAT on returned bottles, but it will take us a bit of time to get used to it.

[Douglas Chapman]

Would it not be a good idea to have a consistent approach that the UK Government could get behind? We have had to push on with our DRS to actually achieve some of our net zero targets and a better environment for our citizens, so the Government could back us up on that and bring in their own scheme.

[Victoria Atkins]

Again, I am trying to be terribly tactful about how I put this. There has been so much discussion between officials behind the scenes. Scotland has wanted to run ahead with its scheme. Frankly, there were some significant intellectual debates about how VAT is dealt with in this scenario. If the hon. Member—I am not pressing him because I know this is not his portfolio—or others in the Scottish Government want a little breathing space to check that we are all going in the right direction, that is of course a matter for them.

We are committed to implementing the scheme in 2025, but it will need a lot of publicising as to the impacts for consumers. We will all want to encourage our constituents to either use their own drinking vessels wherever possible or to return their bottles and cans when they can, but we have tried to simplify the VAT so that the larger producers will be the target of that first stage of VAT accounting.

On the complications, as I say, we have tried to simplify the scheme. One can imagine the scenario where if we were accounting for VAT at every single stage of the transaction process, that would be a nightmare for the tiny retail shops that we all care so much about. That is a good example of two of the three objectives that I set His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Treasury to ensure taxes are fair and simple so that there is a little tension between them, but we have tried to ensure it is as simple as possible for consumers and smaller businesses.

Just to make it clear, we are not making any money from this scheme. Indeed, we hope that tiny amounts of VAT will be paid to us, because that would mean that the overwhelming majority of people were returning their bottles. I hope we make as little money out of this as possible, which is perhaps unusual for me to say.

We will deal with the plastic packaging tax later in the Bill. The latest figure is just over £200 per tonne. As with the landfill tax, it will sit alongside this scheme and the whole point is to, first, cut down on plastic and secondly, make sure that less of it goes to landfill. I very much hope that people will see this as a holy trinity of environmental measures to try and achieve the ends that we are all so keen to achieve. Unless there are any further takers, I will sit down.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 314 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 315

Dumping, subsidisation and safeguarding remedies

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

That schedule 19 be the Nineteenth schedule to the Bill.

That schedule 20 be the Twentieth schedule to the Bill.

Clauses 316 and 317 stand part.

[Victoria Atkins]

This grouping can be summarised as further tools to defend UK businesses in international trade disputes or where the rules are not clear or could be interpreted in a variety of ways. The Department for Business and Trade leads on this work, but it is my pleasure to bring these measures into the Finance Bill to help it assist UK businesses in taking full advantage of our Brexit freedoms and ensuring that they continue to flourish in exporting their goods and services around the world.

Clause 315 and schedule 19 deal specifically with existing trade remedies legislation and create new processes for bilateral safeguards. At the moment, we have only two choices when making decisions on trade remedies: we either accept a Trade Remedies Authority recommendation in full or we reject it entirely. That means that we have a limited ability to consider the broader public interest, which the Trade Remedies Authority cannot consider. The changes made in schedule 19 will allow for a greater flow of information between Government and the TRA by requiring the TRA to notify Ministers before initiating new investigations.

The other changes will maintain the TRA’s expert, independent, analytical and investigative role while giving Ministers greater flexibility when making decisions about trade remedies. It will provide Ministers with the power to request that the TRA reassess a recommendation and give them the flexibility to apply a different remedy to that recommended by the TRA and to revoke a measure without a TRA recommendation, provided there is supporting evidence to do so and it is in the public interest. The TRA will have the power to provide alternative options of recommendations to Ministers where justified.

Currently, the TRA can only recommend a measure if it meets the economic interest test, which goes beyond World Trade Organisation requirements. Schedule 19 makes that test advisory, meaning that Ministers can consider the overall economic impact of a measure alongside the broader public interest. It makes technical provisions to allow for the reimbursement of trade remedies duties, the backdating of trade remedies exemptions and the claiming of unpaid duties by HMRC in certain circumstances.

Clause 315 also introduces schedule 20, which concerns bilateral safeguards: another type of trade remedy that may be used when domestic industries are suffering from the adverse effects of increased imports as a result of a free trade agreement. The changes made in the schedule create a new process for the investigation and application of bilateral safeguards, extending the role and responsibility of the TRA and aligning the process to the wider UK trade remedies framework. That will ensure that the UK can adequately protect UK industry and fulfil provisions in our free trade agreements.

Clause 316 introduces customs advance valuation rulings. Those will enable UK traders to apply for legally binding rulings from HMRC on how to calculate how much duty and tax for a specific good is due. That will facilitate trade flows by giving businesses importing to the UK certainty on the amount due before their goods are shipped and will therefore help to support financial planning. We already issue advance rulings in respect of tariff clarification and origin of goods, but we have not provided advance rulings on customs valuations. That is a legacy of such rulings not being provided in the EU, so we are correcting that through the Bill. Indeed, customs authorities worldwide offer them outside the EU. All traders with an economic operator registration and identification number will be able to apply for such a ruling.

Clause 317 updates customs legislation to ensure that decisions by HMRC to require a financial security as a condition of releasing imported goods from customs control are subject to appropriate safeguards. It also brings together all legislation relating to customs guarantees into a single framework. As I say, those are a variety of tools to help Ministers, the TRA and HMRC ensure that we have what we need to protect UK business and to help the flow of goods between the UK and other countries.

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Will the Minister say something about the relationship with the World Trade Organisation? I presume that the WTO is staying at the back, as a backstop, and that it can be approached by anyone involved in a dispute who does not accept what is happening. In the end, we remain involved with the WTO, so will she say something about that relationship? Will she also explain whether similar authorities are run in similar ways? The way in which the Government chose to set up the TRA was so off beam that this Bill now has to make major reforms to how it works.

[Victoria Atkins]

I hope I will be able answer some of the questions that the hon. Member for Wallasey asked about why the changes are being made. We announced our decision to reform the trade remedies framework in June 2021, and this is the end of a review process to look at how our framework is working. As I suspect Members across the House, not just this Committee, might expect, we have been talking and listening to industry, asking it for its views on how the trade remedy system could be improved. Consultations on including bilateral safeguard provisions have taken place as part of new free trade negotiations, and those will continue to occur for each negotiation. Importantly, we have asked not only the industry but the TRA, and we will work with it to ensure that the changes are implemented effectively.

The hon. Member for Ealing North asked about international comparators. I confirm that all the changes we are making are in line with our obligations under the WTO. Advance rulings are a key component of the UK’s accession to the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans-Pacific partnership and other key free trade agreements, but they also help business. Those are some reasons for introducing them. On clause 317, no statutory right of appeal for traders has existed since we left the EU, but we continue to offer the trader the right to be heard scheme, which gives a trader a period of 30 days to present additional information before HMRC confirms the decision.

The hon. Member for Wallasey asked some important questions about the TRA and its independence, including why this has to be done through legislation. The TRA very much remains an independent body, and we genuinely value its expertise and advice. Its core objective will be to investigate allegations of unfair trading practices and unforeseen surges in imports, and to make recommendations to Ministers. It will continue to run fair, impartial and evidence-based investigations. The Secretary of State will then decide whether a measure should apply based on the evidence provided.

The Bill injects another element of transparency, because the Secretary of State for Business and Trade will have to make a statement to Parliament if Ministers decide to apply an alternative remedy to that recommended by the TRA—I imagine that the Treasury Committee would take a great interest in that—and the statement would set out the reasons for their decision. The TRA will continue to maintain a public file of the evidence and publish its conclusions as well. I hope colleagues will be reassured by the transparency that we seek to bring in.

On the TRA itself, it started to investigate cases in 2021. To date, its completed cases include one new investigation and 11 measures transitioned from the EU. It investigates, for example, allegations of dumping, subsidy and unforeseen surges in imports, and it provides objective, independent and evidence-based advice to Ministers, which we will very much continue to value.

As to why we have to make the changes through legislation, the TRA is a statutory body, it can therefore only act within its statutory powers. That is why we have to bring forward the legislation. Furthermore, it will give certainty to parliamentarians should it be needed in future—though I hope that will not be the case.

[James Murray]

I thank the Minister for her response, although she might have misunderstood my question on international comparators. Her response, I believe, was that what the UK Government are doing is in line with WTO requirements, but my question was whether there had been any international benchmarking of the TRA, its role, its powers and its relationship with politicians—its level of independence and so on—against similar authorities in other countries. Perhaps she will address that question.

[Victoria Atkins]

I do not have that information to hand, but I will endeavour to get it as quickly as possible and furnish the Committee with it.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 315 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules 19 and 20 agreed to.

Clauses 316 and 317 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 318

Excepted machines etc

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)]

I am afraid you’ve got me, Mr Stringer. It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship.

Clause 318 makes technical amendments to the legislation that restricts the entitlement to use rebated fuels to a number of qualifying uses from 1 April 2022 to adjust the restrictions and ensure the legislation operates as intended. It makes minor amendments to changes that were introduced in April 2022 to restrict the entitlement to use rebated fuels.

At Budget 2020, the Government announced that we would remove the entitlement to use rebated diesel and biofuels, including marked oils, from most sectors to help meet our climate change and air quality targets. The changes were legislated for in the Finance Act 2021 and amended by the Finance Act 2022. The changes ensure that most users of rebated fuels prior to April 2022 are now required to use fully duty-paid fuel, like motorists. That more fairly reflects the harmful impact of the emissions that they produce.

Following the implementation of the changes, the Government were made aware of a small number of unintended impacts on fuel users. This measure will make minor amendments in relation to them and will correct a technical issue in section 14B of the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979.

The changes in the clause will adjust restrictions on the entitlement to use rebated fuels to a number of qualifying uses, will qualify how the changes to the new rules work, and will allow the legislation to operate as intended. They will allow machines or appliances used to generate electricity or provide heating primarily for non-commercial premises to use rebated fuels even if they also provide some of the electricity or heat to commercial premises. They will also add arboriculture to the list of activities for which machines and appliances, other than vehicles, can use rebated fuels. That clarification will allow those working in the sector to use rebated fuels in the same machines and appliances as they did before April 2022.

The changes allow the use of rebated fuels in tractors and gear owned by lifeboat charities used to launch and recover their lifeboats. Finally, they make minor technical corrections to remove an anomaly of section 14B of the Hydrocarbon Oil Duties Act 1979.

These changes reflect feedback received from stakeholders since the Finance Act 2022 received Royal Assent. The technical changes in the clause will ensure that the Government’s reforms to the tax treatment of rebated fuels made in April 2022 work as intended. I commend the clause to the Committee.

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[James Murray]

I will speak briefly to clause 320 and schedule 21, which relate to the scope of the soft drinks industry levy. As the Exchequer Secretary set out, the result of these measures is that the levy will now apply to liquid flavour concentrates that are manufactured in, or imported into, the UK. The concentrates are products that are mixed with added sugar in a dispensing machine to dispense a soft drink for the final consumer.

The soft drinks industry levy was announced at Budget 2016 and came into force in April 2018. It has been targeted at producers, manufacturers and importers of soft drinks containing added sugar by encouraging the reformulation of drinks to reduce levels of added sugar and portion sizes, and the marketing of low-sugar alternatives and so on. We recognise that this technical change will bring liquid flavour concentrates within scope of the levy, and we will not oppose the clause.

[Victoria Atkins]

Out of an abundance of caution, I refer Members to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and my ministerial interests. I am recused from this subject matter in a ministerial capacity.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

I wonder which sugary drinks the Minister is addicted to—perhaps she will tell us when we are not sitting in public.

We are dealing here with a technical change to the successful sugar tax, if we can call it that. Again, when we are dealing with Ministers whose job is to get money into the Exchequer, it is strange to have to congratulate them for the declining level of soft drinks industry levy receipts. The tax has successfully delivered on the intention behind the policy, and receipts are down by £21 million for April 2022 to March 2023. That is an awful lot of ruined teeth and extra weight avoided, often for children, whose life chances can be negatively impacted by becoming addicted to sugar.

The consensus among public health officials is that the sugar tax has caused a decline in sugary drink sales, and the total amount of sugar in soft drinks sold by retailers and manufacturers decreased by 35.4% between 2015 and 2019, from 135,500 tonnes to a mere 87,600. That is a success as far as things go, but perhaps the Minister might assure the Committee that the Government will take credit for the success and that they intend to continue to push for lowering even further the 87,600 tonnes of sugar that are currently put in drinks, because there is uncertainty about the Government’s direction.

Two previous Prime Ministers have challenged the existence of sugar taxes. The right hon. Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip said that, on the current evidence, it is ambiguous whether they work, but I have just raised some evidence that shows unambiguously that they do. Similarly, the Prime Minister’s immediate and very short-lived predecessor, the right hon. Member for South West Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), said that

“taxes on treats hit those on the lowest incomes.”

If I may say so, they might also account for the development of a trend that is quite shocking when one thinks about it. There is now a positive correlation being between poor and being obese.  As a society, we ought to tackle that, partially by using such methods, so that we can ensure that the correlation does not survive. We could bring to bear a range of other measures to ensure that happy outcome, but they would be completely outwith the scope of the Bill, so I will not talk about them.

We must, however, congratulate the Government on their introduction of sugar taxes. Since the current Prime Minister’s position is unclear, because he has both supported and rejected furthering a sugar tax, will the Exchequer Secretary tell us what the Government’s position is? Is he willing to stand up and take unambiguous credit for the success of the sugar tax and confirm to us that the Government’s intention is to continue making progress in this area in an appropriate way, with more than just technical changes for drinks fountains?