Ukraine

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Friday 25th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, in his closing speech. I agreed with everything he said. From being a scrappy, feisty Minister, he has become a genuinely statesmanlike shadow Minister.

I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions, but would particularly like to welcome my noble friend Lord Spellar. I have known him for quite some time, and I am not sure he is accustomed to bathing in the warm glow of adoration in many of the places that he has spoken over the years, so I hope he has not found things here too uncomfortable. We are genuinely pleased that he is here. Perhaps there can now be fewer conversations between him and my husband on Sunday mornings; sometimes, there have been three people in my marriage. For all his feistiness and no doubt his decades of fighting the extreme politics on the left of our country, there is a softer side to my noble friend; he has been—and I hope continues to be—a leading light in the APPG on horticulture. I very much look forward to his future contributions in this House.

I have made many notes during this debate. I will try as hard as I can to reply to all the questions that have been raised but, if I fail to do so, please allow me to check Hansard after the debate and I will endeavour to answer any questions that I miss in writing.

As the Foreign Secretary said at the UN Security Council last month:

“Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is in his interest alone”,


but the consequences matter for us all. If Putin wins in Ukraine, the threat posed by Russia to UK and European security will increase. The credibility of international law will be severely undermined, and a signal will be sent to authoritarian leaders elsewhere that aggression pays and that the commitments and statements of the UK and her allies are worthless. We cannot allow this to happen.

As we approach 1,000 days of war, the situation on the front line for Ukraine is incredibly difficult. Russia has made some tactical advances and continues to intentionally target Ukrainian energy infrastructure, to punish millions of innocent Ukrainians ahead of winter. This month, Russian missiles have struck several commercial vessels in the Black Sea, some loaded with grain destined for global markets—yet another grim reminder of Russia’s disregard for international law and global food security. But Ukraine continues to prove that with the right tools it can defend itself, and proves its determination to do so. I note the calls for Storm Shadow and other measures from this Government, and I do not for one second complain about any noble Lord who is pushing us to do more, to go faster, harder, and to be further ahead. I welcome that. I just hope that in return, noble Lords will appreciate that I need to be careful what I say, and that, at the moment, the position of the Government remains as it was. I know that this is entirely what noble Lords expected me to say, but I want to be clear that we do not resist or complain about any contributions that urge us to do more in our support for Ukraine.

Earlier this year, Ukraine successfully headed off a Russian attempt to establish a new foothold in Kharkiv. In August, Ukraine launched a bold offensive across the Russian border into Kursk, targeting Putin’s supply lines, exposing the vulnerabilities of his front-line forces and demonstrating Ukraine’s ability to achieve strategic surprise. In recent weeks, Ukraine has conducted several successful strikes on major Russian munitions depots, restricting Putin’s ability to resupply his forces.

The UK’s support for Ukraine is, as many have said, ironclad. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, said that freedom does not come for free. I would say that failing to support Ukraine would have a far higher price than the one we are paying now. We have provided £12.8 billion in support for Ukraine, including £7.8 billion of military support and £5 billion of non-military support. I note the thoughtful comments from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, about psychological support for children and post-traumatic support. He made a very good point; it is something that the Government are mindful of and support. We have been clear that we will support Ukraine for as long as it takes. Helping Ukraine to emerge from this war as a strong, secure and sovereign nation, able to deter future Russian aggression, is in the best interests of both the UK and our international partners.

I shall now address some of the important questions that have been asked in today’s debate. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lords, Lord Carlile and Lord Banner, made memorable speeches. They bring extensive personal knowledge and enriched our debate enormously. We thank them for that. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Banner: please thank your niece for her letter to us. We do not need her thanks but we do appreciate them. Please tell her that we—in this House, in particular—stand with her.

The UK is taking action to support Ukraine using all the levers at our disposal. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, were correct to remind us that we must constantly remind ourselves and others of why this matters. It is not an act of charity; it is about self-interest and collective interest all at once. If the territorial integrity of Ukraine is lost or compromised, the message we send to the world is that war wins.

I turn to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, my noble friend Lord Spellar and others about our military-industrial policy. The Government are well aware of those points, which were well made. That is why we are appointing a national munitions director, both to help co-ordinate this work and to ensure that our military obligations to Ukraine can be met.

So far, the UK has provided £7.8 billion in military support to Ukraine. As many noble Lords noted, we announced on Tuesday that, on top of that money, we will provide an additional £2.26 billion to enable Ukraine to purchase essential military equipment; this represents the UK’s contribution to the Extraordinary Revenue Acceleration Loans to Ukraine scheme, which was agreed by the G7 leaders in June. This historic loan, which will be repaid by revenues stemming from immobilised Russian sovereign assets, will ensure that Russia pays for the damage it has caused Ukraine.

The noble Earl, Lord Courtown, asked in his excellent speech when that money will be available. There will be further announcements in the Budget. We anticipate that it will be soon or in due course—whatever form of words we are using at the moment—but we are not going to hang about. Some legislation will be needed to allow for this.

I am grateful to the noble Lords who encouraged the use of all diplomatic and political means. That is why the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary have continued to engage closely with international partners: to ensure that Ukraine gets the military support it needs now so that it can defend itself against Russian aggression. The Prime Minister discussed this with his Quad counterparts in Berlin last Friday. We remain in close discussion with Ukraine on the support—be it military, financial or humanitarian—that it needs to secure a just and lasting peace.

Several noble Lords—in particular, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, on the Liberal Democrat Front Bench—mentioned the BRICS and CHOGM summits. We had noticed these. This week, Putin hosted the BRICS summit in Kazan. With mounting evidence of Russia’s war crimes, the international community must remain united in demonstrating to Putin that such actions will not go unchallenged. We must ensure that engagements with Putin are never treated as business as usual. We urge all our partners to use every opportunity to impress on Putin the need to end the war immediately by withdrawing the Russian forces from Ukraine and ceasing his illegal attacks.

Since the start of the Russian invasion, the UK and our international partners have implemented the most severe package of sanctions ever imposed on a major economy. They are working: Putin himself has admitted that sanctions are causing a “colossal amount of difficulties”. Where we can do more, we will. Thanks to efforts by the UK and its allies, Putin faces extreme costs from the conflict. The UK has sanctioned over 2,000 individuals and entities under the Russian sanctions regime, with over £22 billion of Russian assets now frozen because of UK financial sanctions.

The noble Lords, Lord McConnell and Lord Alton, asked about Chelsea FC. I assure noble Lords that we are committed to making progress on this. The money is held in an account, and it will leave that account only when we are sure it will go on humanitarian work, but we are moving forward with that. This has resulted in depriving Russia of over $400 billion—or four years of funding for Putin’s war machine. The UK continues to co-ordinate through the G7 to undermine Putin’s war efforts and engage countries that have seen an increase in the trade of sanctioned goods.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked a number of questions specifically about North Korea and the discussions we had earlier in the week on liquefied natural gas. We discussed this during a sanctions SI debate in the Moses Room on Monday. I do not have the full answer, and I do not think he expected me to have it today, but there has been a letter to which we will respond in full. For now, however, the UK has taken significant action to constrain Russia’s LNG revenues. In the past month, we have sanctioned nine vessels carrying Russian LNG, including vessels loading from the US and UK-sanctioned Arctic LNG 2 project. This is in addition to our 2023 ban on the import of Russian LNG and export ban on energy-related goods to restrict Russia’s longer-term LNG production. We will continue to explore options to target Russian LNG revenue, while balancing impacts on global supply and energy security.

On the DPRK, we are committed to accountability for the most serious international crimes. The UK consistently supports strong resolutions on human rights in the DPRK at both the UN Human Rights Council and General Assembly. We also joined 53 other countries in a co-sponsored joint statement noting the 10th anniversary of the UN commission of inquiry into DPRK human rights and calling on the DPRK to co-operate with the special rapporteur. The UK will continue to build on momentum from the COI’s 10th anniversary and reinforce the commission’s call for the UN Security Council to consider both the human rights situation in the DPRK and appropriate action to ensure accountability, including through consideration of referral to the International Criminal Court.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised the issue of disinformation, and the noble Viscount, Lord Chandos, spoke about journalists. This is really important and I am very grateful that they raised the point. Russia has made no secret that it is making a strategic priority of this. There is a reason why Russia is establishing cultural centres and language learning through Africa and Latin America. It is powerful and is working to Russia’s advantage. However, we also have some strength in this space. I point to the work of the World Service, particularly when we are talking about Ukraine. The most reliable record of Russian war dead is being compiled by the BBC and the World Service. They have been supported well by families inside Russia. They have found that people as young as 18 or 19, and people well into their 70s, have been killed in Ukraine. Their work is commendable. It will probably come as a surprise to many people here in the UK, but we should promote and acknowledge it because it comes at no little risk to some of those journalists involved.

Since February 2022 the UK has committed £5 billion in non-military support. This includes £4.1 billion in fiscal support through World Bank loan guarantees and £937 million in bilateral assistance. I pay special tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, especially on sexual violence. He asked me about the special envoy. We will make an announcement on that in due course, but I assure him that the work he did will continue. We thank him for that work.

This year £242 million of bilateral funding to Ukraine will fund humanitarian, energy, recovery and reconstruction programmes. Furthermore, the UK has provided more than £370 million for energy security and resilience in Ukraine through grants and guarantees, including £64 million to repair, replace and protect energy infrastructure that has been targeted by Russia—as the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, pointed to—with ongoing support for solar panels to power hospitals, back-up generators to keep the lights on and power generation equipment in Kharkiv and Odessa.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, for bringing a delegation from Lviv this week to discuss a wide range of issues with me and many other noble Lords, including recovery and those regional partnerships. We will work closely with a range of international partners to deliver reforms and economic support for Ukraine’s recovery and reconstruction, through the Ukraine Donor Platform and bilaterally.

The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester and the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, spoke of the welcome that Ukrainian refugees have received and the extensive contributions that they have made to our communities. I was asked about visas and our plans for the Homes for Ukraine scheme. I assure noble Lords that there will be an opportunity for Ukrainians here to extend their visa if they want to, starting after Christmas. They will be able to extend on the same terms they have now for another 18 months.

To those who are motivated by a desire for peace and who are urging the Government to do more to urge the Ukrainians towards a conclusion to this war, I say this: it is for the Ukrainians to determine their position on a ceasefire or peace negotiations. Together with more than 90 countries, we made clear at the June peace summit that for peace to be just and lasting, it must be based on international law, the UN charter and the will of the Ukrainian people. Putin cannot be trusted. Russia has violated multiple previous agreements, as the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, recalled, including the 1994 Budapest memorandum in which it committed, among other things, to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and national borders in return for Ukraine agreeing to give up its Soviet-era nuclear arsenal.

Putin has also ignored the demand of 141 countries of the UN General Assembly for the complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory. Make no mistake: we will be sure to hold Putin and his cronies to account for the hideous atrocities they have committed. In May 2022, alongside the EU and the US, the UK launched the Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group to support the office of the prosecutor-general in Ukraine in its domestic accountability efforts. So far the UK has provided £6.2 million to support Ukraine’s domestic work to document, investigate and prosecute war crimes. This is in addition to £2 million that the UK has provided to the International Criminal Court to collect evidence and support survivors. The UK will support work towards establishing a special tribunal on the crime of aggression against Ukraine, to ensure that those responsible for these barbaric crimes are held to account for their actions.

I end this debate by echoing the Prime Minister’s words at the UN General Assembly last month. We will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes, because the alternative would be to confirm that international law is merely a paper tiger and that aggressors can do whatever they like. We will never let that happen because it is our duty to respond to a more dangerous world with strength and to keep our people safe. Putin must not be allowed to expand his mafia state into a mafia empire. We see his actions. We know who he is. We support Ukraine. Ukraine must and will prevail.

Motion agreed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mark Lancaster)]

The UK remains fully committed to the long-term security of the region and to the counter-Daesh coalition. We continually assess UK and coalition logistical capability to ensure that we are well placed to continue to contribute to the counter-Daesh effort, and we remain at the forefront of the coalition’s air campaign.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

T6. It is just not possible to recognise the sacrifice and service of our armed forces in pay alone, but it is wrong that the salary of a new recruit is now worth over £1,000 a year less than it was 10 years ago. What is the Minister going to do? When will a new recruit’s pay match what it was 10 years ago in real terms?

[Mark Lancaster]

I am delighted to say that my understanding is that, as a result of the recent pay review, the starting salary of a private soldier has risen to over £20,000 a year.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 8th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

The challenge we faced was that people were reluctant to come forward. They thought that if they put their hand up and said there was something wrong with their mind, that would somehow impact on their ability to be promoted or hold them back in some way. They would keep their problems to themselves, which would then incubate and eventually they would have to quit the very thing they loved: the armed forces. We have changed that with our focus on promoting better resilience, prevention to stop these things happening, and earlier detection and treatment. From putting that all together we are seeing far better results with people staying in the armed forces and not being hindered or affected by mental health issues.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

According to the Centre for Mental Health, there is not a greater likelihood of veterans experiencing mental ill health than the rest of the population, but there is a significant increase in the likelihood of their having problems with alcohol, so can the Minister tell us what he is doing specifically on the issue of alcohol misuse among veterans, which is something I see in my community?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am really pleased that the hon. Lady has put this in context because a myth is perpetuated that those who join the armed forces will be affected by mental challenges, but she is right that there are other challenges that we face, not least with alcoholism. We work closely with a number of charities, and we are also doing work as part of the transition services so that people are aware of where they can get treatment early on.

Armed Forces Day

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Wednesday 26th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ellwood]

That is mapped out in our annual report, and, if I may, I will send the hon. Gentleman a copy of it. He is absolutely right to suggest that we should not be complacent about the importance of setting the bar ever higher. This is one of the toughest things that I have found in getting parity across the country, not least because responsibility for this is devolved to the other nations.

I can finally get to my third point on what the armed forces are actually about: the bond of the communities themselves. I am looking round the Chamber, and I can see representatives of the places where people have served. There is a symbiotic relationship between the garrison, the base or the port and the surrounding conurbation. Let us take Portsmouth, Aldershot and Plymouth as examples. Those places have a long history of relationships between those in the garrison and those who are working outside. Spouses and partners will seek work in those places, and children will need to be educated there. It is absolutely paramount to get all those things right, and we must ensure that we celebrate that as well. Armed Forces Day can highlight and illuminate the bond between organisations, and it is important for us to focus on that.

That brings me to the issue of veterans, which my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash)—who has now departed—raised earlier. Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that you want me to conclude soon, but it is worth focusing on this issue for a minute or so, if I may. We owe a duty of care to our veterans. I was on board the Boudicca for that incredible journey, taking people who did so much 75 years ago at the turning point in the war. It was humbling to be with those soldiers, who landed in the biggest maritime invasion that has ever taken place, with 150,000 people on those five beaches: Omaha, Utah, Gold, Sword and Juno. I discovered that Juno was originally going to be named after jellyfish. Ours were all named after fish—goldfish, swordfish and so forth—but Churchill was not going to have a beach landing, at which people would die, called “Jelly”, so it was changed.

I spoke to some of those veterans. I asked one in particular, “What’s it like coming here?” He said, “It reminds me of when Britain was great.” That sent a bit of a shock through me about where we are today and the role that we have taken. Perhaps we have become a little risk averse in what we do, and in our willingness to step forward as a force for good. We should reflect on that.

The veterans strategy, which I touched on earlier, is critical in bringing together and co-ordinating charities and the work that we do, to ensure that support is there. Part of that is ensuring that there is a transition process, and that when people leave the armed forces they transition back into civilian society with ease. Of those who participate in the official transition process, which can last up to two years, 95% are either in work or employment within six months, which is very good to see.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I represent Darlington, which is the nearest major town to Catterick garrison. I see what the Minister is talking about day in and day out. Does he think that we do enough to celebrate, and to highlight to people who might be considering a career in the armed forces, the support that is available to people leaving, and the breadth of successful careers that veterans enter into, from teaching to running their own businesses? All kinds of things are possible, and sometimes we do not explain and highlight enough the support that is available to people as they leave.

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady is right to point out the challenges for somebody who has perhaps done three tours of Afghanistan on the general-purpose machine gun. How do they put that in their CV and then sell it to, say, a civilian organisation? There is not a lot of call for that, unless they are some soldier of fortune who is looking for mercenary work, which I hope would not be the case.

We need to ensure that this can be turned around, and the skillsets can be recognised. That must happen in two phases. First, we must explain to companies what the skillsets are, and our Defence Relationship Management organisation does exactly that. Secondly, we must ensure that the individual who is in uniform and who is departing can learn the necessary skills and gain civilian qualifications on their way out, so that they can land in civilian street best armed to face the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

10. What steps his Department is taking to improve service life satisfaction rates in the Armed Forces.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

The experience and morale of service personnel are central to defence. Both the Department and the new single services place the management of this as a high priority. As such, we have put in place a large number of programmes, namely the flexible engagement system—a Bill on which will come to the House shortly—the future accommodation model, the new joiners offer and the armed forces family strategy.

[Jenny Chapman]

Currently, forces families are given special assistance by local authorities when they leave the Army. Is the Minister aware that, upon divorce or separation, an Army spouse is instantly no longer classed as part of an Army family and receives no such support? Will he look into this and consider amending the advice given to local authorities?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am certainly happy to look into that, and I am grateful that the hon. Lady has taken the matter up. It is important that we get the package of measures right so that we can support our armed forces personnel and their families as they transition through their career.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Francois]

It is true that reservists returning from operations have a slightly higher rate of incidence of PTSD than regular personnel, but according to my last briefing on the subject the rate is only about 1% to 1.5% higher. I am afraid that I do not agree with the analysis that it is twice as likely. My hon. Friend might not agree with me, but, if he wants, he can pop down and see Professor Sir Simon Wessely and have a word with him about it.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

In the United States there is widespread successful use of specialist courts for veterans who might suffer from mental health and other problems. That helps to divert them away from committing further crimes. Given the Minister’s personal interest in such issues, will he consider the use of such courts and let me know his view of whether they could be appropriately used here?

[Mr Francois]

I should say from the get-go, as the Americans say, that if it is an issue about courts the Ministry of Justice would normally lead on that. I and the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), who is responsible for defence personnel, welfare and veterans, will attempt to talk to our colleagues in the MOJ and see whether any lessons can be learned from the American experience.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

As I have said in answer to an earlier question, it is just not possible, within the resource envelope available, to maintain the regular forces at their previous level while also recruiting and building the reserve. Neither would it allow us to restructure the force in the way necessary to deliver the outputs required from Future Force 2020.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Darlington is home to many forces families, probably because we are so close to Catterick garrison. What more are the Government going to do to support families moving between postings, particularly those who have children with additional needs?

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Mark Francois)]

As the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) has already indicated, we are looking at the range of accommodation we provide for service families. Under the new employment model, we also hope to be able to provide greater stability for armed forces personnel. We will still move them, in the interests of the service, but we hope, in many cases, to do so less frequently than we used to. I hope to visit Catterick garrison next week and perhaps this could be one of the things I look at while I am there.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Dunne]

I am aware that the hon. Gentleman was concerned last year when the Woodvale rally could not take place as a result of the discovery of fragments of asbestos following burrowing activities by, I believe, rabbits and moles in the grassy areas of the airfield. They have been fenced off and we are undertaking a land quality assessment exercise this year to see whether the asbestos can be safely contained, for public health and the health of the servicemen and women who work there.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

How much are the Government planning to save through the rationalisation of the defence estate by the end of this Parliament?

[Mr Dunne]

The Government’s estate has been the subject of one announcement so far on Army basing, and there will be a subsequent announcement on reserve basing. As part of that exercise, the Government are intending to make savings that are baked into the efficiency targets agreed with Her Majesty’s Treasury, and I would be happy to write to the hon. Lady with more details in due course.

Army Basing Plan

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 5th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I do agree with my right hon. Friend, and we will no doubt hear in a moment from the representatives of the Scottish National party. I find their posturing on this slightly incredible when their agenda is about taking Scotland out of the United Kingdom, removing our Army, our Air Force, our Navy and our marines completely from Scottish soil.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

My constituency of Darlington is very close to Catterick garrison and we are proud to help to accommodate and educate Army children in our town, but the right hon. Gentleman will understand that at times that can put pressure on local services. What specific discussions will he have with local authorities near the seven bases that he has referred to to try to make sure that these children are welcomed back from Germany in the way that we would want?

[Mr Hammond]

We have had discussions with colleagues from the Departments for Education and Communities and Local Government and the Department of Health, and we believe that on the time scales set out here, the additional infrastructure required, which is relatively modest with the exception of the Salisbury plain area that receives more than 4,000 additional troops, will be deliverable over the time scales set out in the document that I have circulated.

Armed Forces Redundancies

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Darlington has a long and proud history of service in the armed forces, particularly the TA. I commend the Minister for his prior service, but as he will have picked up, there is a lot of concern in the House about levels of recruitment to the TA. Will he help us by identifying exactly what level of recruitment to the TA is required and how far we are from achieving it?

[Mr Francois]

The target is for the Territorial Army—probably to be renamed the Army Reserve—to have 30,000 trained reservists by 2018. By the way, we also want to increase the maritime reserve and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, but they are already nearer their targets. We have looked carefully at the recruiting process. The White Paper, which we will publish in the spring, will lay out our plan of action. We will then move forward rapidly to execute that plan of action. I assure the hon. Lady and the House that I am keeping a laser-like focus on this, because I served in the reserves and I want to see them do well.