Covid-19: Vulnerable People

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Lords Chamber

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the £76 million government package of support to charities supporting vulnerable people, which is targeted at several different groups, will be administered by the MHCLG, the DfE, the Ministry of Justice and the Home Office. Departments are working hard to get the funds to where they are needed as soon as possible. Details on how domestic abuse charities can access the vital funds they need were set out by the Communities Secretary on 7 May, and the application information is clear that the department aims to announce successful grantees by the end of May.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

The Minister will be aware that the £76 million is a reannouncement of part of the £750 million announced for charities on 8 April, nearly five weeks ago. Charities are reporting that very little of that money is getting through to the coalface—in other words, to them—and many are financially on their knees. Why did the Government take until last Thursday to announce that domestic violence charities must bid for £10 million of the already announced £76 million of the already announced £750 million, for housing? Why, according to the application form, must they contribute something from their own resources towards the additional costs they are facing when they are already stretched beyond their limits?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right that these charities perform an absolutely critical role. The Government and all departments are moving as fast as they possibly can to meet these needs and make sure that this funding gets to the right place as quickly as possible.

[Lord Duncan of Springbank (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the announced funding—I think it will do good—but I have one question. How do we promote the routes out of risk for those who are experiencing abuse? By what means can we encourage that promotion and how much of this funding will go towards ensuring that those who are most at risk have routes of escape?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend is quite right that we need to think about the long-term position of people who are experiencing abuse. In providing this funding, we will work with specialist charities, which are the real experts in this, to understand the perspective of victims and address their need for both immediate safety and long-term freedom from abuse.

[Baroness Prashar (CB)]

Covid-19 is making the task of identifying victims of human trafficking even more difficult. Some victims may have gone underground and perhaps are in grave danger. Providing essential and practical support has become even more challenging. It has become very difficult because charities which normally provide practical support are under resource constraints. How are the Government ensuring that support and funds are reaching those charities in a timely manner and that every effort is being made by authorities to seek out such victims?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness touches on an important area. The lead here is the Home Office, which has been working through the modern slavery victim care contract to make sure that government-funded safe accommodation and ongoing support are made available to victims of modern slavery as quickly as possible.

[Lord Desai (Lab)]

Will the Minister bear in mind that asylum seekers are among the most vulnerable groups in society? They currently receive only £37 per person per week, which is 72% below the poverty line. Will the Government do something for asylum seekers in these very difficult times?

[Baroness Barran]

The Government are very aware that particular groups, including asylum seekers, are especially vulnerable. We have a voluntary and community sector emergency partnership involving organisations such as the British Red Cross, and we are getting regular intelligence, feedback and advice on how to respond to those particular needs.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I am sure that we all agree that the voluntary sector needs our immediate support, and we plead with the Government to do that, but we must avoid increasing the number of vulnerable people. One such increase is unemployment. Even last September, the Governor of the Bank of England said that a hard Brexit could mean half a million more unemployed people. However, it is worse than that: we face not a hard Brexit but an impossible Brexit, an impossible deal. We must do everything we can, including extending the transition period from the end of December, because we cannot have fruitful ongoing discussions under the threat of the virus. Will the Government look again and extend that transition period?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran]

The Government are keeping all those issues under review. Their commitment to supporting people to stay in employment remains undiminished.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

Voluntary sector workers with type 1 diabetes have been pressured to go back to work even where their doctor has advised otherwise. Is there some way in which this funding could be used to deal with what is an anomaly in current practice and policy?

[Baroness Barran]

I am unclear as to whether this fund would be applicable, but the Government’s advice on going back to work is clear: people should go back to work only if it is safe to do so, and, clearly, an existing medical condition could impact on that. As the noble Lord knows, detailed guidance is being produced. I recommend that those in the situation that he describes refer to it.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a relief that the Government have recognised the urgent need for funding for domestic abuse charities. Like the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, I am concerned about their having to match some of the contributions. I know that the Minister understands this issue well, so can she assure the House that the Government now accept that those organisations are essential and will never again face the levels of uncertainty over their funding which they have experienced over the past 10 years?

[Baroness Barran]

The Government have been absolutely clear. Like me, the noble Baroness recognises what a huge issue domestic abuse is, not just for women but, critically, for children growing up in homes where fear and coercion are the norm.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, one of the strands of funding is through the Department for Education to support vulnerable children, but it has become clear through the discussion this morning that there will be new cases of domestic abuse. How does the Department for Education identify new cases of vulnerability if there is not regular sight of children going to school?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness raises a crucial point. A number of organisations, including the Department for Education and charities in this field, are finding new ways to make sure that they have regular contact, whether by phone or online or, where safe to do so, face to face, to support those children.

[Baroness Meacher (CB)]

My Lords, asylum seekers waiting for asylum decisions are expected to live on £37.75 a week. Can the Minister assure the House that either a generous portion of the £76 million for vulnerable people can somehow find its way to these particularly deprived people or, better still, that asylum support rates will be lifted by £20 per week in line with universal credit?

[Baroness Barran]

It is up to individual departments to decide exactly how the funding for vulnerable people is distributed, but I acknowledge what the noble Baroness said. This is a particularly vulnerable group.

Charitable and Voluntary Sector

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 30th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

I hope I am—I am working under considerable technical difficulties. I draw attention to my interests as held on the register.

The importance of charities is in their existence not as organisations but as vehicles to help the public and others that they care about. What matters is the services that charities provide which others cannot—not the jobs or the revenue, but the impact on citizens. It is a huge and complex sector with an economy worth £42 billion, and charities that are world-leading in their fields. Charities save, protect, support and enhance lives, and they have never been more needed.

This debate, from which several Members of the House have been excluded by the Government, is inadequate to cover the complexity and the details for the subject, and that is rather unsatisfactory. Therefore my first question is to ask when the Government will set aside time for a proper debate. It is needed. The Government’s approach to charities at this time is fundamentally flawed. Look no further than the statement by a Minister in another place, Oliver Dowden, to the DCMS Select Committee the other day—that the Government had made a “horizontal intervention”, applied to all sectors equally. In other words, the Government thought up blanket solutions for business and just rolled them out. Those business solutions do not apply to many businesses, and certainly not to many charities and social enterprises. Will the Government therefore agree as a matter of urgency to meet representatives of the sector who understand charity law and finance, to come up with changes to the existing package to ensure that it works?

Funding so far has been aimed at supporting the NHS to handle the medical emergency. But now the emphasis, the funding and the planning need to change, moving towards supporting community services. Clearly, mental health services have to stay, but we have to move away from the NHS. We have to start to get all those people who signed up to the GoodSAM app to respond to local resilience hubs, instead of within the NHS. We will not get out of lockdown without a massive reorganisation of public services and social care. We need well-organised volunteering if that is to happen.

I want to say a word about the National Lottery, which has for some years used the voluntary sector to deliver its national priorities but has made little investment in voluntary sector infrastructure or development. That needs to change right now. The lottery has to become a supporter of charities as key players in community resilience. Over the last 10 years, funding for local government and volunteering organisations has diminished. While we have the mutual aid organisations, which are brilliant and enthusiastic, they are working in a vacuum at the moment and are largely unregulated.

We now need to start rebuilding, with local government and the sector, a network of local infrastructure. So my questions are these. When will small charities be able to bid for funding from the National Lottery Community Fund, and will this depend on the timing of funding being released from central government departments? How will the voluntary sector and local authorities be able to ensure that lottery funds are properly targeted and not just another burden or distraction? Will the Minister talk to other government departments to see whether there are specialist pots of money and budgets that can be directed towards charities delivering specialist services?

I want to say a word about the Charity Commission, which has responded by relaxing some of its deadlines for filing documents and so on. That is a very good start, but clearly the commission has to start talking to charities about the unprecedented problems being thrown up for them in the current circumstances. Charities need, for example, immediate advice about insolvency and orderly winding-up, given the circumstances in which they currently find themselves.

Another looming issue that needs attention now is the impact on trustees, many of whom are company directors or members of professional bodies. If they are a trustee of a charity that goes into liquidation, they will have to report that and in future say whether there was any further action. So they cannot risk being found to have acted imprudently, for example by running down reserves. Equally, if a person is a director of a company and has become bankrupt, will they be able to remain as a trustee of a charity? The future impact of the pandemic on the availability of trustees is another potential threat to charities that needs to be looked at now so that the Government can avoid a huge problem in two years’ time.

The attitude of banks to charities is very variable. Some, such as RBS and Lloyds, are very good. They understand charities and work extensively with them. Others do not. They all need clearer instruction to get funding out to where it is needed, because, as others have said in this debate, social enterprises have been hit particularly hard.

On CBILS, can the Minister tell us now or in writing how many charities have made claims under that scheme, how many have been processed, and what their total financial value is to date? Will the Government place a cap on the interest rate for CBILS loans after the initial 12-month interest-free period, as debt taken on under the scheme by charities will be very difficult to repay if a charity cannot increase its income? Unlike companies, charities cannot suddenly hike up the price for their services; nor can they suddenly start acting at scale, because most of their activities are labour-intensive. The small business grant scheme provides £10,000 for small businesses in receipt of either rural rate relief or small business rate relief. However, it is not open to charities in receipt of charitable rate relief. Will the Government extend that?

Deferred PAYE has already been a problem for the voluntary sector and seems set to be so again. The Government announced a deferment period for PAYE to deal with the crisis, but the interest payable is 2.5% on each month’s claims for deferred PAYE. It is cumulative, and at a considerably higher rate than commercial loans. Charities just cannot afford to take that on.

We are not asking for help because charities have a right to exist, but because they are crucial to the recovery of the economy and the health of the nation. From food banks to first aid at football and cancer research to social care, we know that the Government cannot save all charities, and nor should they. But by taking a look, alongside people who understand the legal and financial issues specific to charities, they could make better use of the limited resources they have already announced. Crucially, they could design another tranche of funding for the autumn, which would enable charities to still be there to help us when we get out of lockdown and the country starts to recover. Charities built this country and made it what it is. We need them to be there to build a secure and healthy future for us all.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Addington, for securing this debate on such an important subject and at such a critical time for the voluntary sector. I also thank everyone involved in charities and the huge number of volunteers for everything that they have done and will do to be such a key part of the fight against Covid-19.

We have had a varied set of contributions today. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, that the limit on the number of speakers was to do with the limits of technology; the Government would have been delighted to include as many noble Lords as wished to contribute to this debate. The debate has provided a valuable opportunity to hear about the many challenges which the voluntary sector is facing during these uncertain times and for me to set out the range of support that has been put in place to help charities to do their important work. I thank each and every noble Lord who contributed so crisply and snappily to this debate for sharing their thoughts and evidence on this topic. I apologise in advance that I will not be able to answer all the questions in the time available, but I will write a letter and of course place a copy of it in the Library.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, painted one picture of the tide going out and what the world would look like without charities, and the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, asked the question without giving us quite such a vivid image. Charities and volunteering are part of the bedrock of our communities, especially in unprecedented times such as these. Whether we are talking about individual acts of kindness, volunteering efforts or more formal charitable work, they all stem from the same thing, which is a desire to solve a range of problems, create opportunities, and give people a chance to contribute and feel valued. Indeed, my noble friends Lady Hodgson and Lady Anelay, the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, highlighted the global role that we play, both as a funder of charities internationally and in international NGOs. I will talk to colleagues in DfID to make sure that I am able to answer a number of those questions.

The noble Baroness, Lady Barker, suggested that I talk to stakeholders in the sector about changes to the package announced. I reassure her that I am in daily contact with civil society organisations large and small—indeed, I should be on call with them right now—about the impact of Covid-19, and I have a weekly call with civil society leaders. That goes on alongside a range of other meetings which senior officials have with charities and social enterprises.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter, Lady Barker and Lady Jolly, the noble Lords, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Burnett, and my noble friends Lord Astor of Hever and Lord Black of Brentwood all talked about the incredibly wide range of civil society organisations and how they are experiencing increased demand on their services while at the same time dealing with a reduction in their income, because they are unable to pursue previously planned fundraising or trading activities. In particular, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, for the work that he leads at the Institute of Fundraising on increasing transparency and trust in public fundraising.

This situation is forcing many charities to make very difficult decisions, be that reducing services and furloughing staff, cutting into their reserves to keep services running at this vital time, or indeed considering mergers in some cases, as my noble friend Lord Leigh of Hurley described. These organisations have also been co-operating very constructively, as the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, and the noble Lord, Lord Mountevans, mentioned.

I will briefly remind the House of the diversity of the charity landscape before turning to the Government’s announcements, so that we can take those announcements in context. A number of slightly different figures were cited during the debate, but there are around 170,000 charities in the UK, of which almost half, or 80,000, have an annual turnover of less than £10,000. In practice, this means that they are almost entirely staffed by volunteers. A further 58,000 organisations have a turnover of less than £100,000, so 96% of organisations in the sector have a turnover of less than £1 million, and only 4% or 6,000 organisations have income above £1 million. I say this to provide the context in which to consider the funding that we have announced.

The measures aimed at businesses announced by my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer in March will go some way to support many charities and social enterprises through this period of uncertainty, particularly those with paid members of staff, premises and trading activities. This includes many of the 6,000 or so larger charities with income above £1 million. I note the questions from the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, regarding social enterprises. Charities and social enterprises can access the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, which allows them to furlough staff and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage costs.

My noble friend Lord Wei, the noble Lord, Lord German, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Sheehan and Lady Tyler of Enfield, asked about the furloughing scheme and why staff cannot volunteer for their own charities. The purpose of the scheme is to support people who would otherwise have been made redundant. In order to prevent fraudulent claims, we have been clear that individuals cannot work or volunteer for their own organisations. This also protects individuals; if we allowed workers to volunteer for their employer, the employer could effectively ask them to work full time while paying them only 80% of their wages.

I note that many charities have already taken advantage of the scheme—we heard examples today. My quick review this morning showed that from just a very short list of charities those savings will amount to over £125 million in the next few months. Charities can also defer their VAT bills to the end of June, will pay no business rates for their shops next year and may be eligible for the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme.

In addition, while charities are already eligible for 80% business rate relief via the charitable rate relief, charity shops and other premises used for retail, hospitality and leisure will benefit from access to the expanded retail discount scheme at 100% for 2020-21. My noble friend Lady Anelay and the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, asked whether I would meet the Charity Retail Association. I would be delighted to do so.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Pitkeathley and Lady Barker, asked whether there were any changes to business schemes to make them more applicable to the charities sector. I am delighted that the Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan Scheme now permits charities and social enterprises with less than 50% of their income coming from trading to apply for the scheme. I will update the House on the new 100% government-guaranteed bounce-back loans when more information is available in early May. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, will be aware that grants and loans to address cash-flow problems are being made available by Big Society Capital specifically for the social enterprise sector.

Turning to the measures announced on 8 April, as almost all noble Lords noted, the Government pledged £750 million to the charity sector. This is focused on supporting those charities that are responding to Covid-19 on the front line or providing services that protect our NHS and care sectors, ensuring that charities and social enterprises can continue their vital work supporting the country during the coronavirus outbreak. This unprecedented commitment is in recognition of all the issues raised by noble Lords this afternoon around the unique challenges facing the sector.

Of this, £360 million will be allocated by central government to charities and social enterprises in England based on evidence of service need. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay of Llandaff, paid tribute to the extraordinary work of hospices in this country. This funding will include up to £200 million of support for hospices, with the balance going to a range of organisations such as St John Ambulance and citizens advice bureaux, addressing some of the advice needs that the noble Lord, Lord Low, rightly noted as crucial in early intervention, and to organisations supporting vulnerable children, food banks, victims of domestic abuse—as the noble Baroness, Lady Uddin, noted—and other critical areas.

The noble Lords, Lord Mendelsohn and Lord Sharkey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan of Drefelin, asked about support for medical research and wider health charities. I know that my colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care have been liaising with charities in this sector to identify how best to support them. I will confirm with them whether it is more appropriate that they or I meet with the Association of Medical Research Charities, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, suggested.

A further £370 million will support smaller, local charities and social enterprises working with vulnerable people. This is an area that my noble friends Lady Morgan, Lord Kirkhope and Lady McIntosh of Pickering, and the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, all referred to. I am surprised at the sense among your Lordships that small charities might get missed in our planning. We believe that this funding will make a significant difference to many of our small but vital charities, which in turn deploy and manage literally millions of volunteers around the country. In England, this support will be provided through the National Lottery Community Fund. Government will allocate £60 million of this funding through the Barnett formula so that devolved Administrations are funded to provide similar support in Scotland, Wales—where the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox of Newport, cited a number of challenges—and Northern Ireland. This will provide support to thousands of charities on the front line helping vulnerable people affected by Covid-19. The noble Baroness, Lady Cox, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about eligibility criteria. As soon as those are publicly available, I will share them with your Lordships.

Finally, the Government will match the public’s generous donations pound for pound—which as of today have reached £35 million—to the BBC’s “Big Night In” fundraising event last week. The first £20 million of government match-funding will go to the National Emergencies Trust appeal. The remainder will go to Children in Need and Comic Relief for onward distribution to key charities in many of the sectors noted by your Lordships, including food banks, homelessness, domestic abuse and, critically, vulnerable children and young people impacted by the pandemic—as referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, and the noble Lords, Lord Loomba, Lord Mountevans and Lord Addington. I am aware that grants from this funding are already going out, with charities having been pre-screened by the funders concerned.

My officials and I have been working with the different appeals and are identifying how we can help co-ordinate the distribution of funds so that charities receive grants quickly and with a minimum of the bureaucracy to which my noble friend Lady Morgan of Cotes referred and, most importantly, so that need on the ground is met. The noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, talked about the role of philanthropists. We are working on plans to talk to and liaise with philanthropists in this sector—the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, also raised that point.

At this point, I want to commend the National Emergencies Trust for its work. When I last looked, it had already distributed over £22 million to local communities. I note in particular its proactive outreach to black and minority-ethnic organisations, given the terrible impact of Covid-19 on those communities. I have been heartened to see how open the organisations involved are to working together and learning from one another.

More broadly, the British public have been extraordinarily generous in supporting local NHS charities, led inimitably by the wonderful Captain Tom Moore. There have been major corporate donations, too, such as £100 million from Barclays Bank and a major donation from Tesco. Time does not permit me to mention them all, but the national response has been truly outstanding.

I note also the £160 million package of funding for arts charities announced by Arts Council England, supporting important work and securing the future of some of our major museums and arts charities. The noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, raised important points about smaller museums, which I shall discuss with my honourable friend the Minister for Culture. I agree entirely with the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Hudnall, about the role of creative activities in helping young people cope with the impact of Covid-19 on their mental health. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans and my noble friends Lord Marland and Lord Wei talked about incentives for giving, including around gift aid. I would be happy to explore those in more detail and to raise them with colleagues in the Treasury.

I stress that this package of support is unprecedented in scale and goes beyond the funding that the Government have made available to other sectors. We will not be able to save every business or every charity, but in response to questions from the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, we will continue to engage proactively with organisations across the voluntary, community and social enterprise sectors, so that we maintain a complete picture of the impact of coronavirus on the organisations and, of course, the people they serve. I will endeavour, on behalf of the noble Lord, Lord Hastings, to liaise with DfE colleagues on his point about university funding.

Lastly, I acknowledge the work undertaken by the leading grant-making foundations, including the National Lottery Community Fund. Many of these have changed their guidelines to make funding more flexible and easier to access. While I understand the concerns of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, about delays in funding for non-Covid related work, I think he will understand that many funders have had to prioritise in the current circumstances.

On volunteering, we have seen an overwhelming response from the public, expressing their willingness to step up and volunteer to help those in need during this time. We have seen this through local volunteer networks such as the 3,500 Covid mutual aid groups that have sprouted up on Facebook, WhatsApp and Nextdoor, as well as the incredibly important established charity networks, large and small, which have been able to respond quickly and effectively, based on a deep knowledge of their communities and trusted local relationships. Having had a wonderful visit with the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, to her local community organisation, I can tell noble Lords that it is an exemplar of all those things.

The magnificent response to the launch of the NHS Volunteer Responders service is testament to that generosity. Within a few short days, 750,000 people have signed up to lend their support to the NHS and to people in their communities. My noble friend Lady Sater suggested taking time to reflect on how we channel this volunteer energy in future, and I would be delighted to meet her. More broadly, we are working with the sector, including the Voluntary and Community Sector Emergencies Partnership, to support wider volunteering activity and make sure that existing, experienced organisations have the capacity to continue to deploy volunteers where they are needed most. I have a weekly call with half a dozen different local volunteering networks, and I am absolutely blown away by what they achieve.

Finally, we are also grateful to the Charity Commission for its work during this crisis, particularly on the guidance it has provided for charities in difficulty. In closing, I reassure noble Lords that everyone at DCMS has been working tirelessly to ensure that civil society is in the best possible place to get through this unprecedented time. We will continue to work closely with the sector to understand and respond as well as possible. We are all proud to see the work being done at a national and local level by volunteers, charities and social enterprises to support our country at this time.

I congratulate those organisations which have shown incredible agility in reconfiguring their services to operate virtually and collaborating in ways that none of us could have imagined possible. As the noble Baronesses, Lady Hayter and Lady Barker, both remarked, we will need more of this creativity and pragmatism as we plan for the months ahead. If there is one positive thing that we can perhaps take from this incredibly difficult situation, I hope that the spirit of coming together that has been forged during this crisis will strengthen our social ties and sense of connection for many years to come. We have found new ways to be close while having to be physically apart. I think we have all found and understood how each one of us is vulnerable, but also how each one of us can help someone else. We have all adjusted our ways of living and working to an unimaginable extent. Our challenge, and the challenge for those working in the voluntary sector, is to sustain this response.

I spoke recently to the leader of a small charity in Hartlepool who said to me, “We are aiming for our response to be like a candle, not a match.” I think that is a very good goal for us all. In this new social contract, civil society will have a vital contribution to make. I look forward to working with the sector in all its variety to achieve this in the weeks and months ahead.

Social Media: Fake News

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Wednesday 29th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her very timely and important Question. Accurate information is more important than ever and misleading information about coronavirus, whether maliciously intended or not, could cost lives. The Government are working around the clock to build a comprehensive picture of false stories and posts about the virus. We are responding directly to false narratives, working closely with social media platforms to help them remove dangerous, incorrect claims about the virus, and are promoting the steps that everyone can take to reduce the spread of misinformation.

[Baroness Kennedy of Cradley (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for her response. I completely agree with her. Disinformation and conspiracy theories flooding the internet seriously undermine the efforts of those working hard to keep us safe. The Government set up the Rapid Response Unit to work with social media companies to take action and combat fake news, yet we have heard very little about its work and received no detail on what its achievements or actions are. When will the Government make a statement on the work of the Rapid Response Unit? What assessment have they made of the effectiveness of the actions of the social media platforms so far?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right that we set up the counter-disinformation unit at the beginning of March, bringing in expertise from across Whitehall. When asked a similar question the other day, my right honourable friend the Secretary of the State assured colleagues that, when time allows, there will be a Written Ministerial Statement to reflect on a number of issues, including this one. However, our real focus at the moment is to act as expeditiously as possible when any misinformation or disinformation content gains traction.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my interests in the register. Children and young people are the demographic most likely to access their news online and least likely to have the funds to get behind a paywall, and they have little life experience from which to identify misinformation. A recent Pew report shows that those who believe in conspiracy theories are the least likely to observe social distancing rules. At a time when children are entirely dependent on online communication—we have increasing evidence that they are experiencing a range of harms, including misinformation—what justification do the Government have for the recent reports of a delay to the long-promised online harms Bill? In answering, can the Minister say when we can expect this Bill in the House?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right to raise the issues of risks posed to children and young people online. My honourable friend the Minister for Digital and Culture recently met a number of child safety organisations in this regard. We are continuing work in partnership with the Home Office to agree our final position on the regulatory framework as quickly as possible. Obviously, a media literacy strategy will form part of that.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, Covid-19 exposes the pernicious power of fake news; it can be a matter of life and death. Will my noble friend the Minister commit to looking at all elements of fake news, not least getting the harms White Paper in this House, looking at its impact on our democracy and ensuring that a message goes out from the Government to all sections of society that we should always go the extra click to ensure the veracity of information?

[Baroness Barran]

I am happy to agree with the points raised by my noble friend. There is an irony at the moment, when our thirst for quick news feels so urgent, that the time we need to take to get accurate news is even more important. I commend those journalists who are playing such an important part in achieving that.

[Baroness Grender (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that, if anything, there should be an acceleration to pass laws to make social media companies more accountable, with a duty of care and the use of criminal sanctions? Unfortunately, last week the Secretary of State appeared to be slamming on the brakes, asking them instead to beef up their systems and, in his words,

“drive reliance on reliable narratives”.

Any delay to online harms laws lets social media companies off the hook at this critical moment. Will the Minister agree to an urgent meeting with Peers to provide detail on the progress of this legislation?

[Baroness Barran]

I will be delighted to meet noble Lords to discuss this. I stress that the Government have been absolutely clear that we want the social media companies, which have unparalleled engineering capacity, to be even more proactive in addressing this very urgent threat.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a particular responsibility on role models to ensure that fake news is not propagated? Will she single out in particular, as I do, the broadcaster and television presenter Eamonn Holmes, who—perhaps unwittingly, but none the less effectively—cast doubt on the causes of Covid-19 and the link between 5G masts and the spreading of the disease? Is that not something that needs to be condemned? Also, should not the activities of the anti-vaxxers, who are also propagating fake news—I am thinking here of Novak Djokovic, who is giving credence to the anti-vaxxer movement—be criticised and rebutted whenever they make these misleading and dangerous statements?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is right that when celebrities intentionally or inadvertently spread misinformation, this can fan the flames and increase risks around coronavirus. I reiterate the work the Government are doing: our “Don’t feed the beast” campaign, the SHARE checklist we have created and the very clear advice that we should follow public health guidance.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that it is very different when people seek to deliberately spread misinformation, blaming particular minority groups—maybe Jewish people or Muslims—using pernicious false information, graphs and other forms of information? What discussions has she had with the various police authorities in this country and internationally for a co-ordinated attack on this attempt to undermine society from within and to have us start to hate our fellow citizens?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend makes a very important point. Unfortunately, there have been a number of examples of these pernicious attacks. We are working in a co-ordinated way with Governments around the world, because clearly we need the most collective response possible.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

While Rachel Riley is running a brilliant one-woman campaign against fake news, Impress, the regulator of online publications, has an unlimited ability to fine. Does the Minister agree that those powers should now be extended to allow Impress to enforce these fines?

[Baroness Barran]

My Lords, I found it slightly difficult to hear the noble Lord. If I may, I will listen again and respond in writing.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port. No? I call Lord Clement-Jones.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, in the light of the Avaaz report and Ofcom’s latest figures showing the massive extent of Covid disinformation, is not the Government’s approach to social media platforms far too flabby? Should they not be obliging social media platforms to not only provide correct information, but issue warnings and then terminate the accounts of those disseminating misinformation about Covid-19?

[Baroness Barran]

We would rebut the allegation that our response has been flabby. This is clearly an incredibly fast-moving situation. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State meets regularly with the social media companies. As I said earlier, we think that there is more that they can do, but they have made some important moves in recent weeks.

[The Lord Speaker]

My Lords, I am afraid to tell you that the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. My apologies to the noble Baronesses, Lady Lane-Fox and Lady Healy of Primrose Hill. We can now come to the third Oral Question.

Olympic and Paralympic Games 2021

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

We continue to work with UK Sport and sports bodies to support our athletes and sports in the run-up to the Tokyo Games in 2021. We want the Tokyo Games to be a resounding success and will work alongside everyone involved to help achieve this. The forthcoming spending review will address the budget needs to do this beyond the current funding cycle.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, the Answer given will be welcomed by the world of British Olympic sport. Will my noble friend also take into account the wider concerns of some British Olympic and Paralympic sports governing bodies, which, like the British Olympic Association and the British Paralympic Association, are facing serious financial loss, and the need to reassure them on the availability of funding for their programmes to prepare the very best possible British teams for Tokyo?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank my noble friend for his question. We are working closely across the sector to understand the impact of Covid-19 on income generation. My colleague the Minister for Sport is involved in this on a daily basis.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister will agree that the London 2012 Olympics were one of Britain’s greatest success stories of the last decade. We recall that pride in our NHS was, very presciently, the theme of the opening ceremony choreographed by Danny Boyle. Will she encourage her department to work with the Japanese organising committee and the IOC to ensure that Tokyo 2021 celebrates the restoration of public health worldwide and recognises the generosity of athletes in all sports everywhere, such as the runners in Sunday’s virtual London marathon, who are making such a difference in the present emergency?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord makes a very important point. I think there is a strong feeling that Tokyo in 2021 will do exactly as he suggests. It will be a great moment to bring our nation and the world together in celebration of the restoration of health, and I share his gratitude to everyone who is going above and beyond, in many different ways, to address the current situation.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

Does the Minister agree that the success story of British sport in the last couple of decades has been based on certainty and funding? Will she give a guarantee that all programmes, not only the Olympics, will at least have certainty about what they are going to receive so that they can plan properly? The worst thing that could happen is for somebody to have their funding cut or reduced half-way through.

[Baroness Barran]

I absolutely agree with the noble Lord that certainty in funding has been critical to our sporting success. As I mentioned earlier, we are working with all sporting bodies to understand the particular pressures within their sport and what we can do to support them.

[Baroness Grey-Thompson (CB)]

Live sport is a lifeline for many people as spectators, but it is also massively important for giving athletes competition opportunities. I read with interest that the ECB has been nominated as the organisation to lead on opening sports events. What process was undertaken to get to that stage, and what other organisations are being talked to? We do not want to rush opening live sport, but for athletes to qualify for next year they have to have a competition opportunity.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is quite right. No process was undertaken and no formal appointment has been made. Rather, an offer was received at a working level from the ECB relaying some thoughts from the sector. This was warmly welcomed. There is real emphasis on ensuring that this is a hugely collegiate effort to bring back sport, whether competition or training. Ministers and officials are continuing to work with the full range of sporting bodies.

[The Lord Speaker]

Lord Griffiths of Burry Port? Lord Campbell of Pittenweem.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

Does the Minister appreciate that not everyone can win medals and that for many competitors the mere fact of selection for the British Olympic team is the high point of their sporting careers? Will support be available for them, not just for those identified as likely medal winners?

[Baroness Barran]

The decisions about where the funding allocation goes are entirely for UK Sport to take, and it takes a number of criteria into account in making those decisions.

[Lord Mann (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, indoor climbing is one of the new sports for the Tokyo Olympics where we have a big chance of success in winning medals. Are the Government in close contact with the governing body so that, as we move forward into the summer, those who require access to specialist equipment will have their considerations borne in mind when decisions are made?

[Baroness Barran]

As I mentioned earlier, my noble friend the Minister for Sport is working across the full range of sports to make sure that specific needs are taken into account, but I will share the noble Lord’s specific concerns with my honourable friend.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

Given the possibility of greater social contact facilitated by testing and tracing, will the Minister talk to her colleagues about how Paralympians, both with their trainer and, in the case of blind people, with those who, for instance, run with them, would be facilitated in coming together rapidly as the situation improves, to be able to train in a way that makes their participation possible next year?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord makes a very good point, which I will raise with my honourable friend. Obviously, all decisions that are taken on the resumption of training or participation will be entirely consistent with public health guidelines, but the interests of Paralympians are incredibly important within this.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, competitive sport can bind the nation together. However, does government recognise that the essential training and preparation before an event go hand in hand with the event itself? While the equestrian sport, for example, features high up in past medal tables, and is strong in terms of gender and disability equality, will government reflect that, along with other similar sports, it attracts significantly less funding support at the expense of more media-exposed sports such as track and field?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is right about training and preparation. We recognise the unique challenges in equestrian sports with regard to maintaining grounds and keeping horses fit for competition. However, we are working with UK Sport to ensure that the right funding and support is there so that we can have a speedy return of all sports.

[The Lord Speaker]

My Lords, I fear that the time allowed for this question has elapsed; I apologise to the two Members who were unable to get in. We now move to the second Oral Question, from Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town.

Covid-19: Music Sector and Creative Economy

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in doing so I declare my interest as chairman of the Royal College of Music.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Covid-19 pandemic presents a significant challenge to many of DCMS’s sectors, including, of course, music and the wider creative industries. The Government have announced unprecedented support for business and workers to protect them against the current economic emergency, including the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme, £330 billion of government-backed guaranteed loans to support businesses, and the self-employed income support scheme. We are continuing to work very closely with partners across music and the creative industries to understand the impact of Covid-19 on their activities and to provide the necessary support.

[Lord Black of Brentwood]

I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Music, the bedrock of our creative economy, is in deep trouble. The virus has had a terrible impact on the sector, because music cannot exist without audiences and human contact, and both have disappeared along with the livelihoods of thousands of musicians. Is my noble friend aware that four in 10 creative organisations, where many hourly-paid musicians are employed, have seen their income drop by 100%? The truth is that the music business model is being destroyed as a result. As it becomes clear that mass gatherings are likely to be the last to be reintroduced after lockdown, and with many event cancellations having started in January, this will be a devastating lost year for the whole sector and so many individual artists. Does my noble friend agree that there must be an urgent sector-specific package of financial support for music and the arts, similar to the €50 billion programme in Germany, to ensure that the sector and all those who work in it survive the emergency?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend is right to highlight the huge challenges to cash flow for these sectors of our economy. The Government, as I said earlier, have focused on offering very broad support, and doing so at scale and at pace. My honourable friend the Minister for Digital and Culture is meeting representatives from the music industry and the wider creative industries on a weekly basis to understand individual impacts, gather the evidence and then see what we can do to support them on any issues that emerge from that.

[Baroness Quin (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as chairman of the board of Tyne & Wear Archives and Museums, and in doing so I thank DCMS and Arts Council staff for working with museums and understanding the particular and deep ways in which this crisis is affecting them.

As the Minister knows, many museums across the UK have a fine record not only in promoting tourism but in engaging with schools and the different communities in their areas. For that reason, I echo the call that has just been made for the Government to ensure that there will be a joined-up, targeted approach across all relevant government departments, backed by the Treasury, to support the creative sector and its key economic and social role as we try to move forward.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right to high- light the extraordinary part which the creative industries have played in the success of the British economy. I commend the work that Tyne & Wear Archives and Museums did prior to the crisis, supporting children educated at home; I imagine that demand for that work is expanding greatly at the moment. The noble Baroness will be aware that Arts Council England has announced £160 million of emergency funding and is in the process of gathering further information on needs within the sector. We continue to work very closely with it.

[Lord Aberdare (CB)]

My Lords, orchestras and other performing organisations are currently focused on short-term survival with the help of the Government’s welcome support schemes, despite gaps that affect the creative sector in particular. Can the Minister expand a little on her answer to the noble Lord, Lord Black, and indicate when the ban on large-scale events might be lifted so that orchestras that have managed to survive that long and find themselves without bookings, tour plans or indeed income can have some hope and understanding of what support they might be able to expect in future?

[Baroness Barran]

The decision about the ban on large-scale gatherings will obviously be driven by the scientific advice which the Government receive. More broadly, the department is now starting to work on plans for how we emerge from this crisis, but we do not underestimate the challenge that some degree of long-term social distancing poses to the economic model that orchestras, theatres and others will face.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, while much of the focus will be on the so-called high-end events affected by Covid-19, including many festivals cancelled this summer, will my noble friend also consider the plight of small music venues, which play a key role in nurturing new talent as well as being essential and important community assets? Many world-conquering British rock bands started out playing to small audiences in such venues. Earlier this month, the Music Venue Trust warned that over 500 such small venues could face permanent closure as a result of lockdown. Can the Government do anything more to support them?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank my noble friend for his question. We recognise the financial challenges which small venues face, particularly those in London that might not benefit from the relief to business rates because they have a rateable value above £51,000. We are grateful to the Music Venue Trust for the work it is doing to gather evidence from the sector, and we will use that to inform our plans as we move forward.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

As the Minister will know, and the noble Lord, Lord Black, and other noble Lords have highlighted, the music sector and other live arts performance has been extremely badly hit by the coronavirus lockdown. We have discussed current support for the sector this morning. Will the Government give serious consideration to financial incentives to stimulate and promote UK music and other live performance production after the lockdown, especially in view of the recovery period that will be required?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is right that the recovery period could be longer for these sectors than some others. As I said, we are working very hard to understand the evidence on this. Giving evidence to the Select Committee yesterday, the Secretary of State said that we have not reached the end of the road in our thinking. We are listening, analysing the evidence and working on where we should focus our support.

[Baroness Rawlings (Con)]

My Lords, I applaud the Government on the way they have coped with this very alarming pestilence. Does the Minister agree that Covid-19 has had a dramatic effect on the music sector and the creative economy, a major source of the health of the country? Much of this is the result of the repeated, and successful, slogan “Stay at Home”. So successful has it been that it is reported that people dare not venture out even to be tested, so will the Government now say “Get tested and contact tracing”?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank my noble friend and agree on the critical part that this sector has played in the growth of the economy and the creation of high-quality jobs. As I said in response to an earlier question, our advice will be based on the science and the five tests that were highlighted earlier this week. I cannot add to that at this stage.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

My Lords, the power of the creative industries is often expressed in its ability to generate £100 billion to the economy, but perhaps more important is its contribution to the national psyche. Since lockdown, one of the few bright spots in this difficult time has been to witness the irrepressible creativity and joy that results from the rise of book and film clubs, galleries and theatre online, ballet from the kitchen and rock legends performing in their bedrooms. Does the Minister recognise the need for a specific financial support package that does not look only to the immediate needs but rather recognises the atypical workforce and the length of time it takes to get an idea from page to public?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right and speaks from great personal experience. I am sure that many noble Lords having enjoyed seeing extraordinary examples of agility and creativity shown in productions from National Theatre Live, in the work of the British Film Institute and, of course, of the music industry. On funding, I hope that the noble Baroness is aware that we have announced £750 million of R&D funding for small and medium-sized firms where we hope the extraordinary combination of agility and tech will flourish in the future. However, I agree with the noble Baroness that, at a time when many of us are reflecting on the values of our society, the creative industries can help us think them through and build on the sense of connection that we are all feeling so strongly.

[The Lord Speaker]

My Lords, I regret that the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed and I apologise to the four Members who have been excluded from it. That underlines the need for short questions and short answers.

Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) Bill

Baroness Barran Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 22nd April 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Barran]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I do not need to say how vital to the continuation of everyday life and to broad swathes of the economy our broadband connectivity has been in recent weeks. The Covid-19 pandemic has brought into very sharp relief the importance of robust and rapid broadband connectivity. The telecommunications network has never been more important. Right now, it is permitting millions to work at home, providing information and entertainment to those isolating themselves and allowing children to continue their education while their schools are closed. It is at times like this that we must turn our attention to the children, older people and workers who live in areas with limited or no access to the internet. How they are coping in these unprecedented times, and what can we do to ensure that this country’s communications infrastructure is able to meet these and future challenges?

In the other place, my honourable friend the Minister for Digital Infrastructure spoke about how gigabit-capable connectivity can grow businesses internationally and into areas such as big data, artificial intelligence and blockchain technologies. He explained how it more easily allows us to have smart meters and other forms of connected homes, and how faster, more reliable broadband makes accessing media content and finding the best deals online even quicker and easier. Gigabit-capable connections certainly do all these things. It has become increasingly apparent that access to the internet is now an ever more important aspect of daily life, especially at times of national crisis.

It is a credit to our telecommunications operators that the UK networks have responded so quickly to provide the capacity that this country needs during the Covid-19 outbreak. I have no doubt that operators will continue to work tirelessly to optimise their networks and ensure that all of us can access the services we need.

These uncertain times show clearly the need to ensure that everyone in this country has access to fast, reliable, resilient connectivity. Currently only about 12% of the country can access the latest generation of broadband that this Government are determined to roll out nationwide. Gigabit-capable connections are those that offer download speeds of 1,000 megabits per second and above. By way of comparison, the average download speed in the UK is about 54 megabits per second. The Bill before the House today ensures that those living in blocks of flats and apartments—known by the telecommunications industry as multi or multiple-dwelling units, or MDUs—are supported in receiving new connections. We know that such MDUs are often especially difficult to connect. As your Lordships will know, a building’s owner must give their permission before a telecoms operator is permitted to install its equipment in the common parts of the building. When a person requesting a connection lives in a flat, whether they are renting or they own the leasehold, the permission of the landowner is required for the common areas, such as basements and stairwells, so that a telecoms operator can then install its infrastructure.

In practice, an operator will attempt to contact a landowner to request permission to install its equipment and cabling and will offer to negotiate a long-term agreement on access. I am sure many noble Lords will be familiar with the process. These access agreements—or wayleaves, as they are often known—set out the responsibilities of both the landowner and operator with regard to installation, maintenance and future access. It is these agreements that allow residents to be connected.

We understand from the likes of Openreach, Virgin Media, CityFibre, Gigaclear and other major telecoms providers that around 40% of their requests for access in such situations receive no response. I want to make it clear: we are not talking about instances where a landowner refuses to allow telecoms operators access, which they are well within their rights to do. Neither are we talking about landowners who respond to an operator’s notice requesting time to consider the offer, which is also a reasonable course of action. The policy aim of this Bill focuses only on circumstances where a lessee in the property is seeking a service and where a landowner repeatedly fails to respond to a telecoms operator’s request for access.

Currently, when an operator finds itself in the situation I have just outlined, our understanding is that it opts to bypass the property in order to maintain momentum of its wider deployment. The result of that operator’s commercial decision is that the residents within the property concerned are left with little choice but to accept that they will miss out on connections or upgrades to their existing connections. The Government consider this to be unacceptable.

The Bill before the House today seeks to provide operators with an alternative course of action by creating a new streamlined process in the courts to gain rights to install their infrastructure. Clearly, there must be conditions to be satisfied by the operator, and I will come to those shortly. This application process is intended to be a last resort for operators. We hope that through the passing and implementation of this legislation, landowner response rates will increase and this new court process will, over time, not even need to be used.

As I am sure noble Lords will agree, the best way for operators to install equipment in a property is as a result of an agreement negotiated by the operator and landowner. Noble Lords will recall that, in 2017, this House passed the Digital Economy Act. Among other things, that Act updated the Electronic Communications Code, which I shall call “the code”. The code provides a regulatory framework for the relationship between landowners and telecommunications operators. The code does not prevent operators from making use of the courts to have rights imposed in circumstances where a landlord is unresponsive. However, we are not aware of any operators having sought to use the code as it presently stands in order to gain access rights in such a situation. We understand from operators that this is due to the cost and time of doing so. There are varying estimations of the cost of using the current court system, but a conservative estimate is around £14,000 per application, including legal fees and administrative costs. It can take six to seven months from the commencement of proceedings until their conclusion.

There are around 450,000 multiple-dwelling units in the UK, housing approximately 10 million people. If we consider that 40% of the people who own those buildings do not respond to operators’ requests for access, then some 4 million people are losing out. It is avoidable.

The process proposed by the Bill is proportionate and balanced. It places a low burden on the landowner and proportionate evidential and procedural requirements on the operator. First, a tenant in the property must have requested a service. Then, the operator must have issued three notices to the landowner requesting access over 28 days, plus a final notice explicitly referencing the fact that the court may be used to gain access. Only once that period has ended will an operator be able to apply to a court for rights under the code, which will allow it to enter the common areas of the landowner’s property to install its infrastructure, allowing the operator to provide the connection requested by the tenant. On application to the court, the operator must be able to provide evidence of all this. Should the landowner in question wish to stop this process at any point, they need only respond to one of the operator’s multiple notices. The expectation is that applications made to the court will allow judges to make decisions based on operators meeting clear evidential requirements. This will allow decisions to be reached quickly and efficiently.

Indeed, during Committee in the other place, the Government tabled amendments to make the adjudication of applications under the court process set out in the Bill more efficient by ensuring that those applications would be heard by courts and tribunals even better placed to do so. Those amendments make provision for the First-tier Tribunal to hear applications made under this legislation, instead of the Upper Tribunal. This will apply to cases in England and Wales. In Scotland, applications will be heard by the sheriff court. In Northern Ireland, applications will be heard by the county court. This way, the applications will be heard by judges at an appropriate level. The amendments were tabled as a result of engagement with the devolved Administrations and senior members of the affected judiciary themselves, as well as in response to valuable points about the judiciary’s capacity identified in the other place during the Second Reading debate there.

If an application is successful, the operator will obtain interim rights under the Electronic Communications Code, allowing it to install, maintain and upgrade its infrastructure in the property for a period no longer than 18 months. The interim rights will have terms attached; we will consult on those terms before they are set out in regulations. They will include such things as requirements on the standard to which works must be completed and that care is taken to minimise the impact on other residents.

If an operator wishes to continue providing a service to the building after the interim code rights have expired and the landlord continues to be disengaged, it may use existing provisions with the code to apply for full access rights. However, we hope that time-limiting the rights to a maximum of 18 months will incentivise operators to continue to try to negotiate an agreement with the landowner so as to avoid the cost, time and uncertainty of making an application to the tribunal for full access rights.

I look forward to noble Lords’ contributions, and to seeing this short and technical—but significant—Bill pass through this House. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran]

My Lords, I thank both the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, for their contributions. I will start with the noble Baroness’s comments on behalf of her noble friends. We all hear the concerns that she shared with the House but I think we are also aware that the House authorities have been working absolutely tirelessly to change how we work as a Chamber—in ways that perhaps none of us could have imagined would be possible. The Government will make sure that time is given to her noble friends and all Members of this House to contribute fully and perhaps slightly more conventionally as we progress with the Bill.

More broadly, I would also like to put on the record that the Government recognise the sacrifices that are being made all around the country by people whose lives have been turned upside down by what has happened over the last few weeks. We are enormously grateful to them.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, finished by suggesting that the Government could do more to combat some of the misinformation about 5G and coronavirus. I stress that the Government’s view is that 5G conspiracy theories in this area are baseless, exactly as the noble Lord said. There is absolutely no evidence of any link between 5G and coronavirus. The Government have been very active both in working with the industry to address this matter and in taking extremely seriously any threats of violence or actual violence towards workers or damage to mobile phone masts.

The noble Lord also raised the question of high-risk vendors. As he will know, the Government have thought very carefully about this matter. As my honourable friend said in the other place, the security and resilience of our telecom networks is of paramount importance. The decision by the Government on high-risk vendors was made after considering all the necessary information and analysis from the National Cyber Security Centre and from the industry, and in conversation with international partners. As the noble Lord noted, legislation is being brought forward. He asked about the timing. It will be brought forward before the summer. We believe that that will be the right opportunity for amendments in this area to be introduced, and we look forward to engaging with colleagues ahead of that time.

As both noble Lords noted, in the past few months, and undoubtedly in the weeks and months ahead, the country’s telecoms infrastructure has proven and will continue to prove that it is a key pillar of our society, allowing families who are separated to be together and workers to continue to do their jobs, and providing the essential communications that our blue light services need to do the work that we all value so enormously. We are proud of our nation’s telecommunications infrastructure. I am sure noble Lords will agree that our network operators have more than risen to the challenge posed by the coronavirus pandemic and should be commended for the service they are providing to the country. The ability of our network to cope in the past few months is thanks in part to the investment that this Government have made in the past decade.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, challenged us on why we have not gone further on speeds and been more ambitious in the Bill, suggesting that we have chosen the least ambitious route. I hope I will be able to convince him otherwise. Superfast broadband is available to 96% of the country, up from 58% in 2011, as a result of the interventions made by the Government over the past 10 years, including the hugely successful BDUK programme. This ranks the UK seventh across the EU.

For those who cannot access decent connectivity, the universal service obligation, which went live last month, ensures that everyone across the UK has a clear, enforceable right to request high-speed broadband of at least 10 Mbps, which acts as an important safety net. But I assure the noble Lord that the Government are intent on delivering nationwide gigabit-capable services as soon as possible. It is through interventions such as the Bill that we are creating a regulatory and legislative environment that will promote the nationwide deployment of these gigabit-capable connections. These are bearing fruit, with more than 13% of premises now able to access full-fibre networks and 18% with access to gigabit-capable services. Operators are connecting increasing numbers of premises every month. Last year we saw 1.5 million homes connected, and this year we are beginning to see connections rising to around 200,000 a month.

More broadly, on the noble Lord’s questions about why the Bill is so narrow in focus and what else we could be doing, there is a balance to be struck between how we can implement our ambitious plans as practically and as quickly as possible, and our judgment was that to combine the measures into a single Bill would be less practical and slower. I think we share the noble Lord’s aspirations, but perhaps have chosen a different route to get there.

To reiterate, the Government announced £5 billion of funding in the Budget to support the rollout of gigabit-capable networks, which I hope goes some way to addressing the noble Lord’s point about how people can have confidence, and there is a particular focus within that in reaching the hardest-to-reach areas of the country. We are also legislating to make sure that new-build homes come with gigabit-capable broadband fit for the future. We are working with the Department for Transport to reform the street works regime to help operators roll out more quickly and easily, so there is a very comprehensive programme of work that seeks to address these issues.

The Government really do not accept that we are not being ambitious enough. The league tables that the noble Lord refers to often lag behind the latest data and do not reflect the significant uptick in UK rollout over the last year. They also do not take into account the full range of gigabit services available, since they are focused on full-fibre build only.

We continue to work closely with operators and landowners to identify and address the barriers to deployment. If appropriate, we will bring forward further reforms to ensure that fast, resilient and reliable broadband reaches every home and business.

This Bill marks an important step forward. It will bring gigabit-capable connections to tens of thousands of households that may otherwise be left behind and ensures that our telecommunications network operators remain ready to meet the challenges of the future, whatever it may be.

I have tried to address the points raised by noble Lords as fully as I can and thank them for sharing their reflections ahead of this debate given the unusual circumstances. I invite any noble Lords who wish to talk about any issue related to the Bill to contact me and my officials. We would be very happy to discuss by various virtual means their thoughts, reflections and concerns. I look forward to a fuller debate in Committee in due course.

Bill read a second time.

Covid-19: Charities

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 24th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ramsbotham (CB)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Dannatt I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, civil society organisations and volunteers are making a huge contribution to ensuring that the most vulnerable across the country are supported. However, we know that Covid-19 presents serious challenges to the sector. We are hearing concerns around income disruption, particularly for those charities where the bulk of their money comes from public fundraising, trading or investment income, and they will be hit especially hard. We are working with partners across government in the sector to gather a picture of the impacts for civil society, including for those working in frontline roles with vulnerable and lonely people.

[Lord Ramsbotham]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Reply. As chairman of the National Emergencies Trust, my noble friend has been pressing the Government to put a significant amount of money into the voluntary sector for two specific reasons. First, as the Minister said, general fundraising for charities has almost completely stopped, so that even the big ones, such as the Red Cross and St John Ambulance, are struggling to survive. Secondly, is the need to resource local charities that can help people on the ground now. The amount required —between £3 billion and £5 billion—is a fraction of the £150 billion put in to save businesses and jobs.

Last week, with the support of the Duke of Cambridge, the National Emergencies Trust launched a national appeal, which to date has raised over £5 million—a mere drop in the overall ocean—which will be distributed to where it is most needed by the community foundation. Will the Minister please tell the House whether and how the Government plan to support the charitable sector?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, for this Question and commend the noble Lord, Lord Dannatt, for the work that he has done in his leadership of the National Emergencies Trust. However, this is not a competition between funding for business and funding for the voluntary sector: both need to be funded. We need to keep people safe and make sure that the economy comes through this with as little damage as possible.

In terms of what the Government are doing, many actions have happened already, including the ability to furlough some staff offering of loans, which to certain parts of the sector—although not all, I appreciate—is important. But for some charities, demand is up sharply and income is down sharply, and we are working tirelessly and talking every day to the sector about how we bridge that gap.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my railway interests, as declared in the register. The Minister will be aware that the heritage railway sector has effectively been wiped out for the whole of this summer season by the emergency. However, will she commend a worthwhile initiative which the HRA—the trade association—has taken to help Network Rail with its laudable aim to keep trains running for the next six months under government control? The heritage sector is volunteering its members, who are retired railway staff, particularly signallers and station staff, to help Network Rail. Will the Minister encourage Network Rail to take up this offer and, maybe, encourage similar groups where volunteers are available and skilled to take on work in the national interest?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the noble Lord. One thing that brightens my day is hearing stories such as that. People are being extraordinarily generous and creative in how they are sharing their organisation’s assets. I will share the noble Lord’s comments about Network Rail with colleagues in the Department for Transport and I thank him for raising this.

[Baroness Finn (Con)]

My Lords, community foundations will be critical to ensure that aid is properly distributed to those who need it most. Can the Minister confirm that they will receive the support that they require to do this?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend makes an important point. In other emergency situations we have seen that aid is not always distributed effectively. Community foundations around the country have extraordinary networks of local charities and can make sure that the money raised gets to the places that need it most. I know that the National Emergencies Trust and others are working actively with the community foundations.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as patron of a number of charities, including very local ones. As the Minister is well aware, many people who deliver services for charities and local communities are volunteers who are themselves in the same vulnerable categories as those they wish to support. We know that local charities often find a great deal of bureaucracy in securing funds, especially when they have to match fund or go through a byzantine system of funding applications. Will the Government’s package of support include that element?

We have seen reports of people using the good support for charities for their criminal activities. One example is scammers leafleting people offering to get shopping then taking money and not providing it. Will the Government make sure that our criminal justice system is acting proactively on those who are taking advantage of the most vulnerable in society? This is abuse and there should be zero tolerance of it at this critical time.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord made important points about local charities, simplification of funding and older volunteers. I am pleased that we announced this morning, through the Department of Health and Social Care, the launch of the GoodSAM app, which I commend to Members of the House. It allows volunteering both from home, by telephone support for others, and in the community if necessary. On simplifying funding, every funder that I have spoken to is looking at ways to simplify and become more agile and responsive. That is happening across the piece. The noble Lord made an important point about scammers; colleagues across Government are working on that.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston (Non-Afl)]

I refer noble Lords to my entry in the register. I commend the Government for the steps they have already taken in support of charities. I particularly support the charities on the front line and the dedicated volunteers who are doing such important work at this time. The Charity Commission is taking a flexible and pragmatic approach to regulation where relevant and appropriate, and will continue to do so. Will the Minister assure me that, as the commission continues to explore regulatory opportunities to make life easier for those charities doing such important work on the front line, we will be able to seek government support for that aim should we need it?

[Baroness Barran]

I am delighted to give the noble Baroness that reassurance.

[The Lord Bishop of Rochester]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has indicated that conversations are going on between the Government and the sector. I wonder whether she could give us more detail on that and on whether new networks are being put in place in the present circumstances, especially to link not just with the larger charities but with the wider sector, particularly those on the ground.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran]

We are working closely with some of the major delivery organisations as well as with the umbrella bodies, particularly organisations such as the NCVO and NAVCA, the latter being responsible for organising the local community response. We are also aware—but think that we need to be supportive but not controlling—of some of the more spontaneous work going on, including from established networks such as faith groups.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, may I briefly pick up on the last point? How often is the Minister meeting the NCVO, the umbrella organisation? It has come up with a three-point plan; does she have a response to it and have the Government responded to it? It is a diverse sector, and working with the umbrella organisation is vital.

[Baroness Barran]

I think the chief executive of the NCVO and I have each other on speed dial. I can reassure the noble Lord that we are talking pretty much every day and certainly were over the weekend. We are in very close conversation. The noble Lord is right that this impacts on the sector in different ways. There are organisations, perhaps more in the arts and heritage, that can mothball staff and then re-emerge, but there are also those where demand is up but income is down, and that is what we are trying to pin down now.

Covid-19: Public Interest Reporting

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 24th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Griffiths of Burry Port, and with his permission, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are clear that journalists are critical to providing essential information about coronavirus to the public and that it is imperative that they are able to continue doing so. We are working with the industry and others to ensure that journalists are able to continue performing their vital function at this time. Relevant journalists, broadcasters and ancillary staff have been included on the list of key workers whose children will be prioritised for school or other educational or childcare places. We are also clear that employers need to be responsible about who needs to be in the office, and we encourage them to help their staff find alternative arrangements and to support them in working from home.

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

I thank the Minister for that response and welcome the Government’s response on designation, but it is not the only issue. The Minister mentioned others; I hope they include the National Union of Journalists, which across the sector represents not only employees but the self-employed. When it comes to the means for journalists to do their job, it is the self-employed—the freelancers—we must be concerned about. In the debate on the Bill, we have talked about support for the self-employed; I hope that the Government will be able to respond positively to that. I also hope that the Minister will reassure us that, if she does not have the general-secretary of the NUJ on speed dial, she will be speaking to him soon.

[Baroness Barran]

I hope my honourable friend the Minister for Media and Data has the NUJ on speed dial, but I will check; he is certainly actively talking to broadcasters, the Society of Editors and others regularly. As the noble Lord rightly raised, work is going on in relation to the position of the self-employed.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to all the journalists, photographers and, in particular, camera staff in our 24-hour news service, who are providing a vital, trusted news source in an incredibly fast-moving situation. As the noble Lord said, many of them are freelancers. Does the Minister agree that it would be quite wrong for those freelancers to feel under pressure to work because they do not have the underpinning support enjoyed by those employees rightly identified by the Chancellor in the very supportive settlement that he arranged? There is no equivalent for those freelancers. We have the UQ coming in a minute, but I see that the Statement says that further help is coming. I hope that further help is coming very fast indeed; otherwise, we will see freelancers who feel obliged to carry on working when they are creating a danger to themselves and others.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord has covered a number of points. I absolutely echo his sentiment about the importance of journalists and those involved in public service broadcasting at the moment; not only are they a trusted source of facts, but they will have a role to play in rallying communities and getting the message across about how we can keep ourselves and our families safe, and protect our NHS. Undoubtedly, they have a critical role. I know the noble Lord understands the pace at which government has had to work over the past couple of weeks. In a number of these areas, it may be worth waiting a couple more days and getting the solution right, rather than being too hasty.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, might this be an appropriate moment for the over-75s to be given back their free licences?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord might not be aware that an announcement was made about the changes to licences for the over-75s due to be effective from 1 August.

Covid-19: Holiday and Caravan Parks

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Monday 23rd March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Redesdale]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to ensure that residents in holiday or caravan parks who are self-isolating due to COVID-19 are not adversely impacted by the closure of such parks.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are doing absolutely everything they can to tackle the pandemic and mitigate its impact. We are mobilising every bit of government to defend our people and our country. The public, including residents in holiday or caravan parks, have a crucial role to play in delaying the spread of the virus, making sure that they stay at home if they have coronavirus symptoms. The Government have issued guidance to the public advising them against all non-essential travel. Under that advice, travelling to caravan parks for either leisure or self-isolation purposes is non-essential. The public should remain in their primary residences. Nobody should become homeless as a result of coronavirus, and the Government are committed to helping ensure that park-home residents have a safe place to live.

[Lord Redesdale (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response. I declare my interests as listed in the register. Does she not agree that this is a very complex issue? For many residents, the holiday park is their primary residence for 11 months of the year and it would be a major problem if they were asked to move, especially as some have their second home abroad. Will the Minister work closely with industry organisations, such as the BH&HPA, and the larger park owners, many of whom have offered their parks for essential workers and for looking after the children of essential workers, to move this forward?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is quite right. We are aware that caravan and holiday parks are used in this way. As with everyone else, it is important that the residents of these parks stay in their accommodation and do not go out unless it is absolutely essential to do so. In that regard, it is helpful that the cafes, restaurants and pubs within the parks are now closed and offering only delivery and takeaway services. In response to the noble Lord’s second point, Ministers are already heavily involved with stakeholders across the industry. My honourable friend the Minister for Tourism and the Secretary of State have been actively engaged—they were on the phone with the industry this morning—and that work is being co-ordinated by VisitBritain’s Tourism Industry Emergency Response Group. I know that the BH&HPA has been in contact with officials and all those concerns are being actively considered.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister consider giving clear advice to people who are leaving the cities that the number of hospital beds, and indeed their own GPs, are linked to population distribution, and point out the difficulties they might have in accessing healthcare if they leave their primary residence?

[Baroness Barran]

As ever, the noble Baroness makes a very wise point. I hope that she agrees that the Government’s guidance on the matter this morning has been very clear. It says:

“Essential travel does not include visits to second homes, camp sites, caravan parks or similar, whether for isolation purposes or holidays”,


and that people must not put

“additional pressure on communities and services that are already at risk.”

We all have a part to play in that.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that, in that perfectly understandable and justifiable circumstance, some sort of simple identification system for those whose residence is in those parks might be made available? As the powers are strengthened, and greater enforcement is brought to bear, I fear that some of those people will find themselves at the end of enforcement measures to which they are not actually subject.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord makes a helpful suggestion. He will also appreciate the extraordinary pressures that all our public services, many businesses, charities and the voluntary sector are under at the moment. I will feed the noble Lord’s suggestion back to officials.

[Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford (Con)]

My Lords, sophisticated and continuous Covid-19 response is going to require the NHS to predict demand across the country so that we can ensure that each CCG area will have the staff and equipment it needs. If people travel unnecessarily, not only are they going to be spreading the virus, but they will undermine the NHS’s ability to respond and protect the most vulnerable. I am sure that the Minister agrees that we each have our part to play in listening to the latest advice, staying at home and saving lives. Does she also agree that, if we do not do that, more stringent measures may be necessary and that we will all be responsible for that?

[Baroness Barran]

I agree with my noble friend that we all have a part to play. I also accept that, as human beings, all our lives have been turned upside down in the last few weeks. I am sure that some of the people whom we saw on the TV heading to the countryside perhaps did not appreciate quite how many people were going to be there with them. My noble friend puts her finger on the critical point that we must all be practising social distancing and that must include not undertaking any non-essential travel. However, that is only one part of the strategy. The Government are aiming to have an absolutely comprehensive strategy in this regard.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab)]

My Lords, those who are temporarily resident fall under the points previously made; the Minister has carefully explained how that is happening. However, is there not also a danger that, for those who have more than just temporary residence in parks—which may not have sufficient local resources—that aspect of their lives may not be taken into account? Can the Minister confirm that detailed information about those residences is collected and shared with health providers in the area, to ensure that there is no gap in provision for those who think themselves covered in one area but turn out not to be?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord will be aware that there is a huge amount of mapping of exactly that sort of data, particularly in relation to the most vulnerable groups. An enormous amount of work on this has been going on for several weeks.

Covid-19: Business Interruption Insurance

Baroness Barran Excerpts

Tuesday 17th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration it has given to the ability of entertainment and hospitality businesses to claim on their business interruption insurance policies where customers have been advised to stay away but no order for closure has been given.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government understand that this has been an unprecedented time for these industries and that Covid-19 has indeed had a very profound impact. At the Budget last week, the Government set out a £30 billion fiscal stimulus to support British people, British jobs and British businesses. I think the noble Lord will be aware of the statement this morning from the Association of British Insurers saying that the vast majority of businesses would not be covered for business interruption of the type we are talking about under their insurance, but my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is having calls across the industry this afternoon to make sure that our lines of communication are open.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. I, too, have read the statement from the ABI. This is a major issue which has rightly received extensive and negative attention in the media. These businesses are in limbo and are threatened with ruin as a result of being unable to invoke the terms of their business interruption insurance policies. Will the Government now reconsider their policy and direct closure, as has been the case in so many continental countries? It is much more likely—although not certain, as the ABI statement makes clear—that claims will be successful in those circumstances. The other alternative is for the Government to put their own scheme in place where insurance is not available. It is incumbent on the Government to show that they understand what business is facing.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is quite right. Across government we are trying to understand the challenges that business is facing, which is why all Ministers are in regular, frequent conversations with the key stakeholders they represent. I referred to the package of measures in the Budget, but we know that given the scale and speed of this epidemic we need to do more and we need to do it quickly, which is why the Chancellor will be addressing the other place with a package of measures at 7 pm today.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, earlier today in the other place, during a debate on finance, it was said that Ministers in the Treasury would be meeting the insurance industry this morning, I think. The Minister said that lines of communication are open, but what is the nature of the discussions with the industry? Are the Government telling the insurance industry that it needs to refocus its effort on supporting its customers or, as the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, suggested, will they underpin these businesses with, in essence, their own insurance policy?

[Baroness Barran]

To be clear—the noble Lord will appreciate this—the discussions are across many industries, and this industry is critical. There is something about stitching those different conversations together in terms of the overall package. On the approach, we are trying to sequence the priority issues, of which cash flow seems to be perhaps the most pressing in the short term, but I do not want to—and cannot—anticipate exactly what my right honourable friend the Chancellor will say this evening.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a director and shareholder of a number of businesses, which are set out in the register. My noble friend will be aware of the Chancellor’s announcement last week of the business interruption loan guarantee, an essential announcement which could be the difference between a business surviving or going under in the current crisis. Having spoken to a number of banks about how it will play out, the clear indication is that they do not have guidance from the Treasury about what this package will look like. We are now nearly a week on from that announcement. As noble Lords will appreciate, businesses are looking to stabilise their finances now to ensure that they keep people employed. Does my noble friend have any idea of what guidance has been given, when it was given and when businesses will hear from banks about the package of measures that could be put in place to stabilise them?

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend makes a very important point. A new coronavirus business interruption loan scheme, which is being delivered by the British Business Bank, will launch in a matter of weeks—I cannot give a more precise answer than that—to support businesses to access bank lending and overdrafts. In addition, all businesses and self-employed people who are in financial distress in relation to their outstanding tax liabilities may be eligible to receive support with their tax affairs through the HMRC’s time-to-pay service.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, what might be done about theatres? Only this morning Tamara Rojo, the great ballerina and the leader of English National Ballet, pointed out that unless the Government say that theatres should close, they will have no access to insurance to cover the losses they will incur in having brought companies together and so on. Their insurers are requiring that there is a direction from government that they close in order to protect public health. Is it the Government’s intention to protect our arts, which are so important and which run on very tight margins?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness makes an important point about the contribution of the arts to this country. The department is extremely aware of that and is proud of our arts and anxious to protect them. On insurance, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Clement- Jones, the Association of British Insurers has already said that the vast majority of businesses would not be covered in this way. If that is different for theatres, I will write to the noble Baroness. There was also a question about the timeliness of receiving funds in relation to insurance, but the key point is that we are looking at all possible options to support these valued sectors.

[Lord Newby (LD)]

Does the Minister accept that businesses will hear the phrase “within weeks” with a chill running down their spine? This is intensely urgent. Within weeks businesses will be going bust. Even if the scheme comes in within weeks that does not mean that everybody who wants to benefit from it will get immediate support. Once a scheme is up and running, it takes time for everybody to benefit from it. Will the Minister take back to her colleagues that this is an intensely urgent issue, that a week has gone by since the Budget, that no further guidance appears to have been given, and that weeks and weeks simply will not cut the mustard as far as many thousands of businesses are concerned?

[Baroness Barran]

I am more than happy to take the noble Lord’s concerns—and, I am sure, those of others in the House—back to the department. What we are trying to balance here is speed, which the noble Lord rightly focuses on, and clarity, which businesses also want. We all hope that we will get more of that from the Chancellor later today.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, businesses do not need clarity, they need cash. There is an absolute need for the Government to make it clear that they will change the regulations that prevent the banks providing the support that is needed. I am afraid that the Chancellor is going to have to get himself a helicopter. This is a major financial crisis on a scale similar to what we saw following the banking crisis. If the Chancellor is making a Statement to the other place, will we get the opportunity to have a Statement and discuss these issues?

[Baroness Barran]

On my noble friend’s final point about the opportunity to review those issues here, I understand that that will be dealt with through the usual channels as speedily as possible. On the need for cash and the need to change regulations, I think that is the point I was trying to make a few moments ago about how we sequence this. Cash flow appears to be the single most pressing issue, and that is where we are focused.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, it is my understanding that the Statement is not being repeated later today. Could the Minister take back to the usual channels the acute concern about that? This Statement is the single most important business that Parliament will conduct this week, and I sense that noble Lords would like the opportunity to ask the Government questions about it and to give their views.

[Baroness Barran]

I understand from my noble friend on the Front Bench that an offer was made to repeat the Statement here today, but the usual channels agreed that the economic debate tomorrow will be used as a platform to debate it.