Bus Services (No. 2) Bill [HL]

Report stage
Wednesday 2nd April 2025 Lords Chamber

Report (2nd Day)

Relevant documents: 13th and 19th Reports from the Delegated Powers Committee

16:02

Clause 25: Safety and accessibility of stopping places

Amendment 35A

Moved by

[Lord Blunkett]

35A: Clause 25, page 24, line 37, at end insert “, or—
(c) enabling persons with disabilities (within that meaning) to travel on local services independently, and in safety and reasonable comfort.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment enables guidance about safety and accessibility of stopping places to include guidance for the purpose of enabling persons with disabilities to travel on local services independently and in safety and reasonable comfort.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 35A I will speak also to consequential amendments on the Order Paper in my name. Before I do so, I pay tribute to all those who have been campaigning, as organisations and individuals, over a substantial time on this critical issue, long before I became engaged with it.

I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, on his part and his commitment and dedication. One of the reasons I signed his original Amendments 36 and 38 was to ensure that pressure was brought to bear on the Government, and the Government have responded. I pay tribute to other Members who have signed his amendments, and those who have campaigned, present and past, such as the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, the late Baroness Randerson, who did an enormous amount on this issue, and my noble friend Lady Hughes, who got the attention of the House back in the autumn by moving a Motion to which she spoke which focused attention on this critical issue, as did the Transport Select Committee in the House of Commons, just a few weeks ago.

I thank my noble friend on the Front Bench, who has been prepared to listen and to respond. It is a tribute to him that he has worked diligently to ensure that we could make some progress. I appeal to the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, with whom I have had considerable negotiations, to not allow us to make the perfect the enemy of the good. With the amendments I am laying today, with the support of the Government, we are making genuine and real progress. I understand why the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, tabled his original amendment. How could I not, as I signed it? Having signed it, I wanted to ensure that the Government were prepared to move. It is in that spirit that I am moving Amendment 35A and speaking to its consequential amendments this afternoon.

I ought to make it clear that, if the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, were to push his amendments to the vote and they were carried, my Amendments 39A and 61A would automatically fall. Those amendments are about the consultation arrangements and the immediate progression that is consequent on Royal Assent to the Bill. That would be deeply regrettable, because all of us are aligned in wanting to make genuine and rapid progress in getting to grips with something that is dangerous for people with a range of disabilities and particularly for those with little or no sight. That is why I ask my noble friend on the Front Bench to make it absolutely clear from the Dispatch Box that those organisations working with and for, and speaking on behalf of, people who are blind or partially sighted will be front and centre in that consultation.

This also affects cyclists. My attention was drawn earlier this week to a cyclist who came across one of these floating bus stops opposite the British Library. Its colour coding was so bad that, although he does not have poor or no sight, he did not see it and his bike was wrecked. Fortunately, he was not hurt. My attention has been drawn again and again to the appalling example of what we are talking about just across Westminster Bridge. We really need to understand that this is an issue for everyone, not just for those with sight or motor difficulties, and that we need to get it right.

It is in that spirit that I move this amendment today. Crucial to the nature of what we do when we vote, Amendment 35A refers to how we approach ensuring the safety of individuals. It talks about the right

“to travel on local services independently, and in safety and reasonable comfort”.

The commitment in the Bill to travel in safety requires a complete change to these floating bus stops. Emphasis is being put in the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, on retrofitting. I am entirely in favour of that, although the timing of how it can be achieved and the practicalities that need to be put in place should be explored, which is why I have been prepared to compromise. We need to make sure that we make progress quickly and effectively, rather than thinking that we will make progress only to find that we do not.

There are alternatives to completely scrapping the floating bus stops, in places where it is possible to ensure safety for all concerned. Some years ago, I did a project on the yellow school bus network in the United States—Donald Trump has not yet decided to do away with it. It has a facility which stops traffic once the bus itself has pulled in. I believe that creative and imaginative technology could do that, in circumstances where it is extremely difficult to reconfigure what exists in relation to how people reach the bus or alight from it. There are ideas which we can make work, with a little thought and innovation.

In that spirit, I hope to have the reassurances of my own Front Bench—both on the nature of consultation and on the speed with which we will operate in giving the guidance and ensuring that the information is then collected, collated and published, and that authorities are therefore held to account, not least around what I describe in Amendment 35A if it is passed and added to the Bill, and therefore becomes applicable and enforceable—and that we actually can make progress this afternoon. Again, I thank everyone who was on to this long before I was. With some temerity, I commend this set of amendments in my name.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it may be convenient if I inform the House that we have a number of sight-impaired visitors with us in the Gallery. To increase the inclusivity of their experience, it may be convenient for noble Lords to identify themselves when they speak. To that end, I am Lord Holmes, a Conservative. As with all moves of an inclusive nature, everybody benefits. I am sure that a number of Members are now going, “Ah, so that’s Lord Holmes”.

It is a pleasure to follow my friend the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, who has been and continues to be a role model for millions, not just in the UK but around the world. He was a first-class Secretary of State and a man who has transport in his bones, right back to the excellent bus subsidy scheme that he introduced when he was running Sheffield.

I want to speak to Amendments 36 and 38, which are in my name. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb and Lady Grey-Thompson, and the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, for co-signing them. The noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, regrets not being able to be with us for these discussions, but she was insistent that I made her support clear. She gave me a lot of evidence from her personal experience and what others had relayed to her about floating bus stops. I also thank all the organisations which have been campaigning on this matter since the inception of floating bus stops.

Perhaps it would also be to the convenience of your Lordships if I gave a brief description of what floating bus stops are. In essence, you take a bus stop and move it some way into the carriageway, at a distance from the pavement and with a cycle lane running behind it. Similarly, there are bus stop bypasses—another design. In many ways, it is the name “bus stop bypass” which gives us the greatest clue as to how these parts of our public realm came into being. For most of us, we are not bypassing the bus stop at all; we are simply barred from accessing the bus stop.

I have described floating bus stops and bus stop bypasses, but what are they in reality for blind people, wheelchair users or parents with pushchairs—any of us who do not want to take our life in our hands crossing a live cycle lane? So-called floating bus stops are dangerous, discriminatory and a disaster for inclusive design. They are dangerous by design, prima facie discriminatory by design and disastrous for inclusion by design. They are built to fail and bound to fail. Why? They are an overly simplistic solution to a relatively—I emphasise relatively—complex issue. They could have never solved the issues because they were not predicated on being inclusive by design and ignored the concept of “nothing about us without us”. They say nothing about accessibility.

On my Amendments 36 and 38, perhaps I should first say what these amendments are not. They are not anti-cycling. I am pro-cycling—pro-cycling for all those who can. But I am no more pro-cycling than I am pro-pedestrian, pro-bus passenger or pro-parent with pushchair—in short, I am pro-inclusion.

If we have a continuation of these so-called floating bus stops, we will have a continuation of a lack of public transport in this country. We will have transport for some of the people some of the time. Much more concerningly, we will have transport for some of the public none of the time.

16:15

My amendments are predicated on principles that are the keys to finding inclusive and sustainable solutions to these issues. First, it should be possible for a bus to pull up for passengers to alight and egress to the kerbside. For “kerbside”, read “edge of the carriageway”. On country roads, where there are no kerbs and the bus pulls up to the verge, so be it. All that principle says is that the bus does not pull up mid-carriageway, leaving passengers stranded on an island with a carriageway on one side, a cycle lane on the other and the safety of the pavement some way beyond that. The first principle is for buses to pull up for passengers to alight and egress to the kerbside. Secondly, no one should have to cross a live cycle lane to access that bus service.

On what should happen to potential future floating bus stop sites, we already have thousands of these laid out across the country and clearly that issue needs to be addressed. With the Government already accepting that there is an issue with these designs, surely it would make sense to have a prohibition on all new proposed, potential and pending so-called floating bus stops. Call it a prohibition, a pause or a moratorium—whichever you prefer—but it would seem sensible to take that time to not have any more of these sites laid out before we have come to a conclusion about how to make them inclusive, accessible and sustainable.

I also suggest a prohibition on any DfT funding going towards floating bus stops in their current design. How can it be that taxpayers’ money is used to lay out infrastructure and overlay that is accessible and usable for only part of our communities? It is incredibly difficult to make uninclusive buildings inclusive—things that were put up decades and centuries before anybody even considered issues around inclusion. That is difficult but doable. What is perhaps even more frustrating is where you have sites in the public realm, such as bus stops, that were for decades accessible, inclusive, safe and able to be used independently, then for want of a planning change made inaccessible and excluding for such large swathes of our population. I suggest a prohibition on new sites and a prohibition on any government funding going to such sites.

On retrofitting, it is clear that we have an issue with all the thousands of floating bus stop sites currently in existence. They have to be fitted back to the situation they were in before they were turned into floating bus stops. Alternatively, as the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, pointed out, there are potential solutions that are worth exploring. It is desperately disappointing that we have got to this stage with no such exploration and no such interest in those solutions coming from this Government and previous Governments.

So I suggest prohibition, retrofitting and then rewriting the LTN 1/20—the note that sets out this cycling infra- structure. Perhaps again we get a key as to why we find ourselves in this situation when we look at LTN 1/20. At the beginning of the note, it sets out its key principles —the aims. There are around eight or nine principles in that document governing these pieces of infrastructure —that is the front page. Not one of those principles talks about inclusion. It is instructive as to how we find ourselves in this situation.

The Government talk about growth—quite—but how can they enable economic growth, social inclusion and psychological well-being when huge swathes of the population are not even able to get to the shops, the restaurants, the café or the cinema because they cannot get aboard the bus? The Government talk about getting more disabled people into work—quite—but how will that work when we are not even able to board the bus to get to the interview?

I appreciate all the discussions I have had with my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and his efforts in this pursuit. I will be very interested in and listen carefully to what the Minister has to say. Certainly, one of the most important amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, Amendment 35A, will stand irrespective of what happens with my amendments, as will a number of the others—and that is all to the good. But if we want to ensure that public transport is inclusive by design, accessible by all and worthy of its name, Amendments 36 and 38 would enable that. That is what those amendments are all about, and I very much look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I support those two amendments. For the benefit of those with sight impairments, my name is Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb and I am from the Green Party —yay.

I have been working for three decades or more on the issue of safety on our roads and road danger. I do not know whether that pre-dates the interest of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, but it seems like a very long time, and it has been a very long slog. I have worked with amazing campaigners of all kinds. I have to admit that when I started, I was concerned primarily with cyclists. At the time we had a lot of cycling injuries and deaths and relatively few cyclists; I wanted to get more people cycling, get them off buses and out of their cars and make London cleaner—get the air cleaner with fewer cars. That was my driver at the time. Obviously, as I continued working, preventing deaths and injuries of all kinds—of walkers, cyclists and drivers themselves—became paramount.

When floating bus stops were first mentioned, I thought, “What a fantastic idea to get the cyclists away from the heavy vehicles and buses”. It seemed like a really good idea and I was a huge fan, but I have now seen the light. I have examined particularly the two bus stops over on the far side of Westminster Bridge. They are quite interesting, because one of them is awful—absolutely dreadful. I have almost got mown down by a cyclist there, and I am fully sighted and fully mobile. The other one just about works most of the time, so I can see that there is an option for making all the floating bus stops we have viable. The one on this side is next to St Thomas’ Hospital, and it has a much better layout, better visibility and so on. Also, cyclists zooming up the bike lane perhaps realise that there are people crossing into St Thomas’ who may not be as mobile or as able, and so perhaps they take greater care. So I can see the possibilities, but—and this is a really big but—we have to accept that many of these bus stops are flawed, and we need a huge look at them all to make sure that they are viable.

It is wonderful that the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, is able to agree to these amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett. I also thank the Minister for the 30-second chat we had in the corridor earlier today—it was very beneficial. This is a step forward, but it is just not far enough. Having lived this for 30 years, I really feel that we have to do something bold and dramatic. There are other ways to traffic-calm, which is what I am aiming to do. We could, for example, tax SUVs. These monstrous vehicles are extremely dangerous; they make people inside them feel incredibly safe, so they drive differently—they are also difficult to park and so on. We need better roads policing. We have some at the moment, but it goes through phases of being very good and then not so good. Of course, we also need good planning; that is paramount.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, I am a big fan of inclusion—as I get older, I realise that I am more interested in inclusion than when I was younger. You cannot justify limiting one group’s opportunities by giving another group more opportunities. I hope that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, will press his amendment to a vote and that we can show the Government just how much we care about the issue.

[Lord Shinkwin (Con)]

My Lords, I support Amendments 36 and 38 in the name of my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond and his co-sponsors. I thank them for their powerful speeches. For the benefit of our visitors, I should explain that I am Lord Shinkwin and I have a disability.

I apologise to your Lordships’ House as this is the first time I have spoken on the Bill. I am doing so for a particular, personal reason as a disabled person. I have run the very close risk of almost being run over on nearby pedestrian zebra crossings three times in the past five days—last Friday evening, this Monday and as recently as yesterday, all in perfect visibility and all by people cycling at speed. In each case, the cyclist had seen me in my wheelchair as I started to cross and chose not to apply their brakes. One interrupted a phone conversation to shout an apology outside Clarence House as she cycled past, which was really good of her. In another case, when I appealed very politely to a cyclist on an e-bike to stop, he looked at me with utter contempt.

The only thing that saved me, and enables me to be here today, is my sight. It is my only form of protection, because I can confidently say that I would not survive a collision. How much worse must it be for those people who do not have that protection, which we take for granted if we do not have a visual impairment? That is why Amendments 36 and 38 are so important.

Although I am speaking for the first time today, I read very carefully the Minister’s response to my noble friend’s amendments in Committee. I want to make clear that I do not question the Minister’s sincerity or commitment, both of which I welcome. My concern is that, notwithstanding the remarks by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, the Minister’s department does not recognise the clear and present danger that disabled people, including those with both mobility and visual impairments, are facing today.

16:30

I just want to put on record that I fear for my life. The chances of me, or a person with visual impairments, being killed by an irresponsible cyclist just yards from your Lordships’ House are extremely high, and are growing as the culture of impunity spawns a culture of anarchy.

I say to the Minister and, through him, to his officials, that the need is now. That is the reality of the situation that Amendments 36 and 38 would enable your Lordships’ House to address. It is an emergency, and I say again that I am not sure that the Department for Transport recognises that. Indeed, its indifference to the urgency of the situation is as much a threat to disabled people as irresponsible cycling. As my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond explained, the Government’s laudable goal of getting more disabled people into work is undermined if disabled people cannot travel safely to work. That is hardly rocket science.

I close with this point. The Minister will know that, for some disabled people, the Government are not exactly flavour of the month right now. Accepting my noble friend’s Amendments 36 and 38 would represent an easy win for the Government, as well as for disabled people. But, if the Minister does not accept my noble friend’s amendments, I, like the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, do hope that my noble friend will test the opinion of the House.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

My Lords, I support these amendments. I believe them to be reasonable and to show responsibility for those we have heard about today. In the same way that the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, has seen the light, I hope that the Minister will join her and agree to these amendments.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, it is Lord Wigley, for the benefit for those who cannot follow the monitors in the House. This is the first time I too have intervened on this Bill. It is sometimes difficult for those of us in small parties to cover all the legislation, but the issues contained in this Bill have been very close to my heart for a long time. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, for his contribution to this, because he has certainly brought a dimension to our understanding.

I am intervening now rather than earlier because, at a meeting held within these premises a week or two ago, we were shown films of the disastrous results when those trying to get on buses, or indeed those who are cycling, have to cope with the layout at bus stops in certain areas. They were really disturbing films; it was frightening just looking at them. We have to make sure that this sort of situation cannot persist.

A moment ago, someone asked, “What if these issues had been going on for 40 years?” They have been going on for longer than 40 years. In 1981, I introduced my own Disabled Persons Bill in the House of Commons, which became the Disabled Persons Act. Part of the Act was to do with the safety of the visually impaired on pavements, with regard to potholes, works on the pavement being undertaken by local authorities, et cetera. The question of disabled people’s safety arose and, even then, it was seen in the context of the social definition of “handicap”, which is the relationship between a disabled person and his or her environment. We may or may not be able to do very much about the basic disability, but we can certainly do something about the environment. Therefore, the responsibility for ensuring that a disability does not become a handicap rests in the hands of those who control the environment. This is classic example of just that.

I am very pleased that amendments have been tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Blunkett and Lord Holmes. I only wish that they could all be amalgamated into one; that may be a challenge for the Government. I hope that we can make progress today in that direction. However, if we cannot, or if only the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, find their way forward, I very much hope that the Government will commit to keeping this under review—and in terms of months, not years—to ensure that the arguments put forward so forcefully by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, are not lost and that we make progress on this issue, to make sure that those who have been suffering do not have to suffer in future.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My Lords, I am Lord Hampton from the Cross Benches and I will speak to Amendments 36, 38, 39 and 39A. I am genuinely conflicted on them. On the one hand, I would like to see floating bus stops stop immediately; on the other, I believe that the Government would be far more sympathetic to the much more gradual approaches of the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, and the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett. I will be interested to hear what the Minister says.

In Committee, I described floating bus stops as democratic: they are dangerous for everyone. Apart from the obvious victims—those with limited sight or mobility—the bus stops are so dangerous because there are two separate pavements that make them look safe. In fact, it is the crossing between the bicycle lane and the pavement that is the problem. No one is designed to look over their shoulder and that is usually where the problem comes from. E-bikes are supposedly capped at 20 miles per hour.

[Lord Burns (CB)]

It is 16 miles per hour.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My noble friend has pointed out the correct figure. I am not sure what the European and Commonwealth speed record for bike-mounted corporate lawyers in Lycra is, but I am sure it is well over 30 miles per hour. When bus passengers are trying to catch a bus—perhaps at night or when it is raining—we are expecting them to cross a cycle path without incident.

As the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, suggested, there is a solution. I catch a bus from London Bridge daily. There is a cycle lane across the bridge which ends to allow buses to pull into the pavement to pick up passengers and drop them off. Cyclists know to go round the bus, bus drivers know how to pull in gently and passengers do not have to cross traffic or a cycle lane. I have seen no incidents or near-misses in my nearly three years of travel from there.

Floating bus stops are a laudable attempt to make life for cyclists safer—but, in fact, they put everyone in danger. They are a huge mistake and legislation to remove them must be in the Bill.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I will speak as a cyclist—one of the first to do so in this debate. I cycle regularly to your Lordships’ House and many other places. I agree that some of the floating bus stops that noble Lords have described, especially around here, are awful—but others are quite good. The problem is that the danger for cyclists going round the back of a floating bus stop has to be measured against the danger of overtaking a bus that is trying to pull in in front of you, because you do not know how many other cars, lorries or buses will overtake you on the outside. I do not have any figures for how many people have been killed or injured by overtaking buses as they pull into bus stops, but it is significant. We need to look at this in a balanced way rather than just saying, “Get rid of floating bus stops by all accounts”.

As noble Lords have said, the floating bus stops on Westminster Bridge are awful, but, leaving the design aside, it does not help that the cyclists cannot go in the cycle lanes there because there are too many tourists. We are talking about too many people wanting to use too much road space, but it does not always work. Coming back the other way by St Thomas’, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, mentioned, it is much easier.

For me, crossing from a pavement to a floating bus stop—with a ramp, I hope, as opposed to a step—is not very different from crossing any other road with a cycle lane and finding that the cyclists are not stopping or obeying the light. We need a proper design that works, rather than rushing into a series of different ones that may or may not work.

I have cycled quite often on the continent and I have given examples of what happens in Berlin, which is the most wonderful place to cycle. First, there is a pavement—the footpath—then there is a cycle lane, and then there are one or two traffic lanes. What happens if there is an obstruction on the cycle lane due to a building site or something? The traffic lanes are reduced from two to one to allow the cyclists to travel and overtake safely—ditto with the pedestrians.

The biggest problem—this came up in the Question from the noble Baroness yesterday—is that people do not comply with the law and there is no enforcement, whether that is enforcement for cyclists and scooters, electric or otherwise, or for freight cyclists. I find that cyclists with freight on the back have a particular habit of rushing around and not obeying red lights. I do not know why; most of us obey red lights, but these freight cyclists make a habit of going diagonally across and hoping for the best. One of these days people are going to get killed.

I love the London cycle routes that have been put in over the last 10 years—most of them are very good. However, you can go out the A10 towards Stratford and see the different designs of bus stops, cycle islands and other types of arrangements for the bus to pull over in front of you, and each one is as dangerous as the other—you have got to be very careful.

I cannot support any of these amendments, but I urge the Minister to agree to commission a proper study of how best to align the needs of pedestrians, disabled and blind people, tourists—who do not, I think, understand what “stop” means—cyclists and other road users, and combine it with enforcement. Until we get some enforcement, such as that in Germany, Belgium, Holland and even Paris now, we are going to get more of these debates, which, while very interesting, are not solving the problem.

With the very large increase in the number of cyclists using the road network now—noble Lords may have seen the cycle route along the Thames from here, going eastwards—I feel quite frightened on that lane in rush hour, because there are so many of them going along and they are going quite fast. We can debate whether it is good for a cyclist to be frightened of other cyclists. Things will change, but we have got to be very careful before we start moving infrastructure without being quite clear as to the benefits to each class—if we can call it a class—of user, to make sure that we get it right and that we do not get, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, said, the conflict from safety. Safety is the be-all and end-all, and it must start there, but enforcement is one of the most important things.

[Lord Burns (CB)]

My Lords, I support the intention behind the amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and I agree very much with the broad thrust of the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, particularly about enforcement. I have cycled many miles on the bicycle paths in central London, and indeed I experienced a serious injury when a runner ran into me on the Embankment, at the very point that the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, was talking about, going from here to Waterloo Bridge.

I accept that floating bus stops are frightening to pedestrians, but, as was pointed out, they are also extremely frightening to cyclists. As many people have commented, the one on the far side of Westminster Bridge is particularly awkward. Cyclists confront people getting on and off buses, who have no knowledge about the complicated configuration of the footpaths, bicycle paths and islands; this is particularly the case for visitors, who often seem to be completely confused. On the other hand, a decision to force cyclists to ride around a bus carries different but extremely serious risks.

16:45

I am concerned about proposals to abolish floating bus stops without a proper assessment of where the danger points are and of whether they can be adapted to improve safety for everybody—pedestrians and cyclists. Maybe the danger points and the potential remedies are not the same at all floating bus stops; they might depend on the number of pedestrians, the time of day and the proportion of visitors. Maybe there are potential changes, as have been mentioned by speakers already, to ensure that cyclists slow down or stop as they approach a floating bus stop when a bus is there. Surely it would be sensible to engage in a more detailed evaluation of both the problems and the potential solutions before making a decision on this issue.

I am attracted by the amendments which propose sensible design guidance following assessment and consultation with groups with impaired sight. I can see merit in proposals to persuade local authorities to make changes to those that do not comply when that work has been done. However, to simply abolish them all without a proper assessment, as some of the amendments would do, would surely escalate the risks in the long term, for both pedestrians and cyclists.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I will intervene briefly, if I may. One group of people involved in these discussions has not been heard from so far, and that is the bus drivers themselves. I have no financial interest to declare these days in these matters, but over the years I have worked either as a consultant, director or chairman for three different bus companies. When you talk to bus drivers about their daily problems, you find that their views about cycle lanes are well worth listening to. Many of them say that they do not open the doors sometimes until they have checked the cycle lane to their nearside mirror.

Although it is not very popular to say so—I do not wish to fall out with my noble friend Lord Berkeley—it is about time someone acknowledged the fact that a substantial number of cyclists on our roads are, quite frankly, maniacs.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I agree.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

I made an exception for my noble friend straight away, because I knew he might react.

Stand on the corner of Parliament Square and watch them. There are cycle lanes and traffic lights, and a substantial number of cyclists ignore the traffic lights—because in their view nothing is coming—and set off around Parliament Square. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Blunkett and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, on the amendment that we are discussing. We ought to acknowledge the fact that, unless there is some sort of enforcement, as my noble friend suggested, the minority of cyclists who behave in that way will continue to behave like that.

Mention has been made of the cycle lanes and the two bus stops at the other side of Westminster Bridge. Only last week, I happened to be crossing the bridge in the direction of travel towards the House, on the left-hand side, where the cycle lane and the bus stop is, in the opinion of earlier speakers, supposedly the safer of the two. There are Belisha beacons and a zebra crossing by the bus stop—a very small one that crosses the cycle lane. As I crossed one day last week, I had to dodge a cyclist—in fact, there were two of them, pretty close together—who ignored the Belisha beacons and the zebra crossing. I said something to the first one as he passed—I presume the second one was associated with him. He responded, and I do not know exactly what he said, but the second word was “off”. That sort of behaviour is all too predictable for a certain minority of cyclists.

I hope that, when he comes to respond, my noble friend the Minister will acknowledge the very real fears, particularly of those who are partially sighted or blind, and that these problems are real and that it is long past time that we tackle them.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, for those who are listening to this debate, my name is Baroness Pidgeon from the Liberal Democrat Benches.

Accessibility and safety have been strong features of the debate, at Second Reading, in Committee and today. I am pleased that the amendments before the House today would help make progress on floating bus stops. I was struck, by the debate in Committee and from discussions that I have had with visually impaired, blind and disabled campaigners, about the accessibility of the bus network. My Amendment 39 is a new amendment that seeks to ensure that all existing floating bus stops or bus stop bypasses are made safe and accessible within a reasonable period. Unlike the amendments that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, has spoken to, it does not prohibit all floating bus stops, but it does seek to ensure an assessment of the current state of these types of bus stops and a programme to retrofit stops which do not meet the highest safety and accessibility standards.

Floating bus stops tend to be on busy main roads where cycle lanes have been added. They have been designed to tackle a serious issue of cyclist safety, particularly at the point where buses pull out into the main traffic. I want us to remember why this different design of bus stop was created, with absolutely the right intentions: to help prevent collisions with cyclists, and deaths, on these busy main roads. Clearly, in some locations, as we have discussed today, they have not been designed in a way that keeps everyone safe. Bad designs that mean passengers have to board or disembark a bus from or directly into a cycle lane are not acceptable. We have all seen good examples of this infrastructure—and bad examples.

This amendment seeks more detailed guidance, which would ensure that cyclists were kept safe and that blind, visually impaired and disabled passengers were safe and able to access bus services. I hope that the Minister supports this aim. I have met representative groups and received correspondence from different sides of this debate. One thing that unites everyone is the need to ensure that these types of bus stops are designed to the highest possible standards of safety for all users. This amendment ensures that an assessment of current floating bus stops is carried out within six months and that a retrofit programme is then carried out within 18 months. This is a sensible way forward, which I hope that the House can support. It will ensure progress on this issue, about which we have heard loudly and clearly today.

Since tabling my amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, has tabled his own amendments, which I welcome. They would allow progress in the way that my amendment seeks. Therefore, I would like to hear from the Minister whether the Government are minded to accept the noble Lord’s amendments. What assurance can the Minister give the House that the guidance for floating bus stops will be reviewed at pace for all local authorities, that local authorities will have to review their existing floating bus stops, and that there will be a retrofit programme for those that do not meet the guidance—particularly those that we have heard about so powerfully, where the island is just not wide enough and passengers are forced into the cycle lane simply to use the bus?

This has been a passionate debate from all sides of the House and we will all be listening carefully to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, my name is Lord Moylan and I am the Conservative Front-Bench spokesman—yay.

The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, knows that I have the highest personal regard for him, as I do for my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond. They both bring a perspective on this issue which I cannot share and do not possess. However, I do know something, from past experience, about the design and management of roads.

The essential problem is, as was stated by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, that there are locations where road space is a scarce resource. The way in which we choose to deal with this is by a sort of top-down allocation of uses, so that we say, “This is for the pedestrian, this is for buses, this is for bicycles, and this is for general traffic”. Inevitably, people are left dissatisfied, because these are almost insoluble decisions to make. They are a mixture of managerial and political decisions, and they are fundamentally questions of priority, and those priorities shift over time.

What has certainly been the case is that, in recent years, the priority has shifted substantially in favour of the cyclist. I think that the mood in the House today is that perhaps it is time to look again at the priority that should be given to pedestrians, and particularly to disabled pedestrians. For that reason, I will say that, while we do not object to the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, if my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond chooses to test the opinion of the House on his Amendments 36 and 38, we will support him.

[The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)]

My Lords, as the Minister, I will turn to the amendments related to floating bus stops and accessibility. I thank noble Lords for their contributions on these important points. I recognise the passion and sincerity of all those who have spoken. I say clearly that the Government acknowledge the problems that floating bus stops can cause. We recognise that this is about equality and the ability to make independent journeys confidently. It is also about safety, including, as my noble friend Lord Berkeley and the noble Lord, Lord Burns, have referred to, the safety of cyclists. It is also, as the noble Lord, Moylan, just said, about the allocation of road space, which in many English towns and cities is at a premium.

We also recognise that more needs to be done to make these installations accessible to all, which is why the department is working—at pace, for the benefit of the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon—with Active Travel England and Transport for London to provide further guidance and undertake research to fill the gaps in our knowledge and evidence base. Since Committee, we have been exploring ways in which we can strengthen this commitment, and we have listened very carefully to noble Lords’ and other stakeholders’ concerns.

First, in the short term, we have decided to instigate a pause on the installation of the most problematic floating bus stop designs. These are the ones with shared-use bus borders, where the cycle track runs across the front of the bus stop, between the stop and/or shelter and the kerb. Noble Lords have referred to a number of stops in this respect, and I will refer to bus stop U on Brentford High Street, near the piano museum, where bus passengers get on and off directly into a cycle lane. The pause will be voluntary, as there are no powers enabling the Secretary of State to instruct local authorities on this. It will apply to any new installations currently at the design stage, which local authorities will be requested not to take forward. This does not require legislation, and the Secretary of State will set out expectations on this to local authorities as expeditiously as possible.

With regard to future modifications to existing sites, we will highlight to local authorities that existing funding is available to them to make these changes. Options include consolidated active travel funding and highways maintenance funding, and Ministers will encourage them to use this. Active Travel England will also be making available further funding to local authorities to enable them to retrofit existing sites on their network.

Amendment 36 from the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, is similar to Amendment 39A tabled by my noble friend Lord Blunkett, in that it requires the Secretary of State to issue guidance on this matter. However, my noble friend has gone further in his amendment and stated that this guidance has to be in place within three months after Royal Assent. I fully support him on this matter: it is important that guidance is developed quickly to help solve this issue, and I know that partially sighted, blind and disabled bus passengers will appreciate action being taken quickly. This guidance will be better than local transport note 1/20, to which the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, referred, because that is non-statutory, and it will answer my noble friend Lord Berkeley’s point about a proper study.

Amendment 39A also makes provision for consultation and includes the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee as a statutory consultee. I agree that this is the right thing to do. I agree that any consultation on this guidance will also include other bodies of, or representing, blind and partially sighted people, and, more generally, disabled people, older people and those with additional needs. They are experts, as users of the network, and we want to be sure that they have had an opportunity to provide their views. Amendment 61A is a technical amendment that ensures that the new clause proposed in Amendment 39A comes into force as soon as possible after Royal Assent.

17:00

My noble friend Lord Blunkett has tabled three more amendments to support accessibility on buses. Amendment 35A provides that the guidance on safety and accessibility of stopping places is issued for the purpose of both facilitating travel of disabled people and enabling them to travel

“independently, and in safety and reasonable comfort”.

Amendments 36A and 36B apply Clause 25 to Greater London, as it should.

Finally, Amendment 39B empowers the Secretary of State to request that local authorities provide information on how they have complied with the new guidance. It is supported by a duty on local authorities to provide this information, and if the Secretary of State is of the view that a local authority has not complied with that duty she may publish a statement to that effect. I regard this amendment as important to ensuring local authorities are held accountable. It will also enable the Government to understand what progress has been made to ensure that bus stops are designed well and suitable for all users. Individuals and organisations are always welcome to write to the Secretary of State where they have concerns about compliance, and she may then seek evidence from the local transport authority. Therefore, we strongly advise the authorities to ensure they are fulfilling the obligation set out in Amendment 35A.

Amendment 38, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, seeks to require the Secretary of State to take steps to prohibit the installation of any new floating bus stop, to prevent funding being used for their construction, and to retrofit existing sites within 18 months. Amendment 39 does not go as far as that but would require the Secretary of State to carry out an assessment of all floating bus stops within six months and similarly implement a retrofit programme within 18 months.

I thank all noble Lords for again highlighting the importance of accessibility. The Government are also clear that they want to see improvements in the design of floating bus stops. The Government believe that a full break or moratorium on floating bus stops goes beyond what can be reasonably delivered within the timescales set out in the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, but I thank him for the amendment he has tabled, which has hugely, and rightly, raised the profile of the subject.

I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, for her amendment. There is merit to what the noble Baroness has tabled and, in particular, what she has said in this debate. However, I believe that my noble friend Lord Blunkett’s amendments go further and set out a requirement for the Secretary of State to publish guidance on the design of floating bus stops to which local authorities must have regard. They also give the Secretary of State the power to request information from authorities and to make public any authorities that are not complying with the duty to have regard to the guidance.

The need for an effective reporting mechanism has been raised by a number of stakeholders as key to ensuring that authorities are acting to improve the safety and accessibility on the most dangerous of floating bus stops. My noble friend Lord Blunkett’s amendments deliver that. I also note, and will review, my noble friend’s view about the yellow school bus experience he described.

I hope noble Lords will support my noble friend Lord Blunkett’s amendments. I make it clear that the Government are fully behind them. We will move at pace in the guidance and press local transport authorities for the reviews that it will stimulate. I hope that I have thus persuaded the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, and the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, not to press their amendments.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank everyone who has taken part in this debate. I appreciate that we are not at loggerheads; we are talking about the way in which we can move as quickly as possible, in a practical fashion, to achieve a common goal. If noble Lords will forgive me for one minute, I had a vision of the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, and I on a tandem, with him on the front and me clinging on as hard as I can to ensure that both of us do not end up in danger of hitting one of these floating bus stops.

The noble Lord, Lord Hampton, mentioned speed. I hope the Government will come back to that at some point, because it is a disgrace that there is no appropriate and proper speed limit for cyclists. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Burns, for clearly spelling out why my amendments go a long way, in a practical fashion, to meeting what the whole House wishes to achieve this afternoon. I thank other noble Lords for their kind words.

I say to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, from the Conservative Front Bench that I am sorry if we are going to divide on Amendments 36 and 38 because he will remember that the night before Rishi Sunak called the general election, we collectively reached a compromise on the Victims and Prisoners Bill with the Government. Had we not done so, the changes on IPP that have come in would not have happened. We did so—if I might use this expression—with our eyes wide open to the fact that we were marginally compromising with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Bellamy, and his Secretary of State, Alex Chalk, but we were doing so in order to make progress. It is in that spirit that I will move this amendment and associated amendments this afternoon.

Amendment 35A agreed.

Amendment 36

Moved by

[Lord Holmes of Richmond]

36: Clause 25, page 25, line 3, at end insert—
“(2A) The Secretary of State must issue guidance requiring—(a) buses to stop at the kerbside to allow all passengers to board from and alight directly to the pavement, and (b) stopping places to be designed such that all passengers can continue their journey without crossing a live cycle lane running through or on any part of the pavement.(2B) The organisations listed in subsection (6) must comply with the guidance issued under subsection (2A) when commissioning the design, construction or maintenance of a stopping place for a local service, or any facilities in the vicinity of a stopping place for a local service.”

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, I thank everybody who has spoken in the debate. I particularly thank my noble friend Lord Shinkwin, who brought such vivid and real lived experience to the debate, and all noble Lords who took part, in particular the Minister. I thank him for all his consideration and the time that he has put into progress on this. It is a rare and positive thing to have a Minister for Transport who not only understands but loves transport. He is surely a candidate for Secretary of State. Things would improve dramatically across the piece.

I also thank my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, for all the work that he has done on this matter. Progress has been made and I am very pleased that Amendment 35A and other amendments in his name will also pass, irrespective of what may or may not happen presently. The difficulty is, for all that has been said, that too much is still voluntary and lies in guidance. It could be pinned down far more. For example, the Government could do more, particularly on not providing finance for such schemes. They could have taken a different approach—rather than guidance, they could have taken a different legislative pathway. Similarly, it is worth noting at this point that, for those local authorities that do not abide by any guidance, judicial review will be the only route of redress for an individual. In essence, for the vast majority of us, there is no route of redress whatever.

I am extremely grateful to the Minister and my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, but, to make more progress and in acting for inclusion by design, accessibility by all and public transport worthy of that title, I should like to test the opinion of the House.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Geddes) (Con)]

Before putting the question on the amendment, I must advise the House that, if it is agreed to, I will not be able to call Amendments 36A or 61A due to pre-emption.

17:09

Division 1

Ayes: 214

Noes: 216

17:19

Amendments 36A and 36B

Moved by

[Lord Blunkett]

36A: Clause 25, page 25, line 19, at end insert—
“(aa) Transport for London;”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment applies clause 25 to Transport for London.

36B: Clause 25, page 25, line 22, leave out “outside Greater London”
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment applies clause 25 to local traffic authorities in Greater London.

Amendments 36A and 36B agreed.

Amendments 37 and 38 not moved.

Amendment 39

Tabled by

[Baroness Pidgeon]

39: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—
“Assessment to retrofit floating bus stops(1) Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must conduct a full assessment of all existing floating bus stops to determine their level of safety and compliance with relevant safety and accessibility guidance.(2) The assessment must also identify any necessary retrofits to ensure floating bus stops are fully accessible and designed inclusively.(3) Following the assessment, the Secretary of State must develop and implement a programme to retrofit existing floating bus stops in accordance with relevant safety and accessibility standards.(4) The retrofit programme must ensure that floating bus stops are designed to allow room for passengers to board and alight directly between the bus and the pavement safely, without accessing a cycle lane.(5) The retrofit programme detailed in subsection (3) must be completed within 18 months of the assessment’s conclusion.”Member's explanatory statement
This new clause requires the Secretary of State to assess all existing floating bus stops for safety and accessibility compliance within six months of the Act's passage and to complete any necessary retrofits within 18 months thereafter.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, having considered the Minister’s response from the Dispatch Box, I will not move my amendment.

Amendment 39 not moved.

Amendments 39A and 39B

Moved by

[Lord Blunkett]

39A: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—
“Provision and design of floating bus stops(1) The Secretary of State must give guidance about the provision and design of floating bus stops.(2) The guidance may, in particular, include guidance about—(a) matters to be taken into account, and the consultation that should be carried out, when deciding whether it is appropriate to construct or remove a floating bus stop;(b) the circumstances in which it is appropriate to construct or remove particular types of floating bus stops;(c) other considerations to be taken into account when designing floating bus stops.(3) The Secretary of State may at any time vary or revoke guidance given under this section.(4) The Secretary of State must publish guidance given under this section and any variation or revocation of the guidance.(5) The first guidance given under this section must be published before the end of the period of three months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed. (6) The Secretary of State must consult the Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee, and any other persons who in the opinion of the Secretary of State it is appropriate to consult—(a) before giving or revoking guidance under this section, or(b) before varying guidance under this section in a way which, in the opinion of the Secretary of State, results in a substantial change to the guidance.(7) The following must have regard to the guidance—(a) a local transport authority (within the meaning given by Part 2 of the Transport Act 2000) whose area is in England;(b) Transport for London;(c) a local traffic authority (within the meaning given by section 121A of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984), in relation to stopping places on roads in England;(d) a local highway authority (within the meaning of the Highways Act 1980), in relation to stopping places on highways in England;(e) a strategic highways company (within the meaning given by section 1 of the Infrastructure Act 2015), in relation to stopping places on highways in England.(8) In this section—“floating bus stop” means an area in the immediate vicinity of a stopping place for local services, which is designed—(a) for use by people accessing the stopping place, and(b) so as to incorporate a cycle track (within the meaning of the Highways Act 1980 (see section 329 of that Act));“local service” and “stopping place” have the same meanings as in the Transport Act 1985 (see sections 2 and 137 of that Act).”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to give guidance to certain authorities about the provision and design of floating bus stops.

39B: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—
“Duty to provide information to Secretary of State(1) An authority which is subject to a duty under section 25(6) or (Provision and design of floating bus stops)(7) (duties to have regard to guidance) must, when requested to do so, provide to the Secretary of State—(a) details of how they have complied with the duty, and(b) any other information relating to stopping places provided by the authority and used by local services that is specified in the request.(2) The request may specify the form in which, and the period within which, the information is to be provided.(3) The Secretary of State may publish—(a) any information provided under this section, and(b) if it appears to the Secretary of State that the authority have not complied with their duty under section 25(6) or (Provision and design of floating bus stops)(7), a statement to that effect.(4) In this section “local service” and “stopping place” have the same meanings as in the Transport Act 1985 (see sections 2 and 137 of that Act).”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment requires an authority to provide the Secretary of State on request with compliance information relating to guidance about safety and accessibility of stopping places, or about floating bus stops. It allows the Secretary of State to publish the information and, if it appears that the authority did not have regard to the guidance, a statement to that effect.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

I am moving these amendments formally, but I just want to make it absolutely clear to the House and beyond that that vote does not defeat the progress that has been agreed by this House in terms of ridding us of the worst of the floating bus stops.

Amendments 39A and 39B agreed.

Clause 27: Training about crime and anti-social behaviour

Amendment 40

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

40: Clause 27, page 27, line 31, leave out “possible” and insert “safe to do so”
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment makes it clear that the training will require a person to take steps to prevent crime or anti-social behaviour only where it is safe to do so.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

My Lords, this next group of amendments relate to Clause 27, on training for staff about crime and anti-social behaviour.

On Amendment 40 under my name, I thank noble Lords who in Committee highlighted the need for clarity on how new requirements could impact the safety of drivers and front-line staff. I know we all agree that the safety of everyone on the transport network is important, and this includes both passengers and staff. This amendment seeks to make particularly clear the importance of the safety of staff when preventing incidents relating to crime and anti-social behaviour.

It is important that staff are trained to assess whether it is safe for them to prevent such incidents but, to be absolutely clear, staff are not expected to physically intervene in incidents which should be dealt with by enforcement authorities, such as the police. I have previously stated that we are not expecting bus drivers to leave their cab in order to prevent incidents of crime and anti-social behaviour. This is not appropriate and may put the driver at risk. However, drivers and other staff should be equipped to intervene in other ways, such as through understanding what to say to de-escalate a situation where it is safe to do so. Therefore, this amendment makes it clear that the training requirement is to assist staff in taking preventative steps only where it is safe to do so.

As I have stated before, the intention has always been to involve relevant stakeholders in the development of guidance which sets out the requirements of training on crime and anti-social behaviour, and the Government remain committed to doing so. I hope noble Lords will accept this amendment.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I am glad to see the amendment in the name of the Minister. I pointed out at Second Reading, and again in Committee, that the drafting of Clause 27 was, frankly, absurd, dangerous and misleading, in that it raised public expectations about what drivers are able to do in handling crime and anti-social behaviour that were completely unrealistic and unfair to the drivers. I have an amendment in this group which elegantly and beautifully addresses the matter; the Minister’s is more brutal, but it does the job, so I welcome it.

There is a further amendment in this group in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley. Unfortunately, he is not in his place to speak to it, but the suggestion that trade unions should be consulted about the content of training overall seems to me unobjectionable, so I am sad not to see him here in his place.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

I turn to my noble friend Lord Woodley’s Amendment 41. I appreciate that the intention of his amendment is to ensure that the views of bus workers are considered when developing the training that they are required to take. I agree that this is important, but I am not convinced that placing a requirement on individual public service vehicle operators to consult trade unions before preparing training to be undertaken by their employees is the best way to go about it. This would place an undue burden on operators and likely delay the implementation of training, while resulting in inconsistency in staff capability and service provision, which is in the interests of neither bus workers nor passengers. I have already explained that we will involve relevant stakeholders in the development of guidance covering training. This includes ensuring that the views of bus staff and their representatives are fully considered. We remain committed to this and believe that we can set clear and realistic direction about what the training should entail and the expected outcomes.

The final amendment in this group is Amendment 42. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, for his amendment —I am not sure that I should thank him so much for regarding my own as brutal, but his amendment is clear. I thank noble Lords for their amendments in this group and hope that the House accepts the amendment tabled in my name, which is intended to clarify the policy intention of Clause 27.

Amendment 40 agreed.

Amendments 41 and 42 not moved.

Amendment 43

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

43: Clause 27, page 28, line 7, at end insert—
“(3A) Where regulations made under this section impose a duty or confer a power to process personal data, the duty or power does not operate to require or authorise the data to be processed in a way which contravenes the data protection legislation (but the duty or power is to be taken into account in determining whether the processing contravenes that legislation).(3B) In subsection (3A) “the data protection legislation”, “personal data” and “processing” have the same meanings as in the Data Protection Act 2018 (see section 3 of that Act), and “process” and “processed” are to be construed accordingly.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment clarifies that regulations requiring holders of PSV operators’ licences to keep records relating to their compliance with the training requirement do not operate in a way which contravenes the data protection legislation.

Amendment 43 agreed.

Clause 29: Training about disability: further provisions

Amendments 44 and 45

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

44: Clause 29, page 29, line 12, at end insert—
“(1A) Where regulations made under this section impose a duty or confer a power to process personal data, the duty or power does not operate to require or authorise the data to be processed in a way which contravenes the data protection legislation (but the duty or power is to be taken into account in determining whether the processing contravenes that legislation).”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment clarifies that regulations requiring carriers and terminal managing bodies to keep records relating to their compliance with the disability training requirements do not operate in a way which contravenes the data protection legislation.

45: Clause 29, page 29, line 28, at end insert—
“(za) “the data protection legislation”, “personal data” and “processing” have the same meanings as in the Data Protection Act 2018 (see section 3 of that Act), and “process” and “processed” are to be construed accordingly,”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment defines terms used in clause 29(1A), inserted by my amendment to clause 29, page 29, line 12, and is consequential on that amendment.

Amendments 44 and 45 agreed.

Clause 30: Use of zero-emission vehicles for registered local services in England

Amendment 46

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

46: Clause 30, page 30, line 21, leave out from “a” to “may” in line 23 and insert “service that falls within subsection (1A)”
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment, together with my amendments of clause 30 at page 30 line 24 (first amendment) and page 31 lines 10 and 11, provides for the requirement to use zero emission buses to apply to the local services in England set out in my second amendment at page 30 line 24.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

These amendments cover provisions relating to zero-emission buses. Those tabled in my name—Amendments 46 to 49—amend Clause 30, which will prevent the use of new non-zero emission buses on local bus services, from a date not before 1 January 2030. I would like to attribute these amendments to the late Baroness Randerson, who worked tirelessly to ensure that the environmental benefits of bus services are fully realised; she continued, quite rightly, to push consecutive Governments to do more. They also address issues raised eloquently by the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, in Committee.

Amendment 47 widens the scope of the current drafting to include all local services run under franchise schemes and local services in London. Therefore, all registered and franchised services, which includes those that are commercial, tendered or operated by local authority bus companies, are captured by the measure. This amendment will enable the carbon-saving and air-quality benefits afforded by the transition to a zero-emission fleet to be fully maximised. It will ensure that all areas of England are included and that the benefits of the transition to a zero-emission fleet are felt nationwide.

17:30

Amendments 46, 48 and 49 sit alongside Amendment 47 and are necessary to satisfy the Government’s intention. I hope these amendments demonstrate the Government’s commitment to working constructively with colleagues to improve this Bill and that the Government listened carefully to concerns raised earlier in the parliamentary process.

One further amendment to Clause 30 is tabled in my name. Amendment 50 directly addresses the recommendation from the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee; there is also Amendment 51, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Goodman of Wycombe. I am grateful to the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, of which the noble Lord is a member, for its recommendation to change from the negative resolution procedure to the affirmative procedure for the statutory instrument made under the new Section 151A(2)(b). This sets the date from which new non-zero emission buses may not be registered to be used for local English bus services.

Having considered the committee’s recommendation, the Government are tabling an amendment to Clause 30 to make that statutory instrument subject to the affirmative procedure. I have written to the committee in response to its report on the Bill to confirm that the Government accept its recommendation. As noble Lords will have noted, the specific date will be set out in a future statutory instrument, but the specific date will not be before 2030.

The clause also enables regulations to be made setting out documentation that can be relied upon in deciding whether a new bus is zero-emission. Regulations can also be made setting out any exemptions to the end date on the basis of the type of bus or service if deemed necessary. It is important that the Government have flexibility on these matters—for example, to quickly respond to any change in vehicle registration procedure and to help ensure that there are not adverse consequences from requiring bus services to become zero-emission.

I also note that the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee did not recommend that this mechanism was amended for regulations that might be made under new Section 151A(3). Furthermore, unlike the date from which non-zero emission buses cannot be registered to be used in English local bus services, these regulations are more technical in nature, and I do not believe they need the same level of scrutiny.

[Lord Goodman of Wycombe (Con)]

My Lords, my Amendment 51 concerns the matter to which the Minister has just referred. I speak as a member of the Delegated Powers Committee—though of course I have no licence to speak for the committee. None the less, the Minister just reported entirely correctly what the committee said. We produced a recommendation on the crucial matter of the date by which the use of new non-zero emission vehicles would be prohibited. We took the view that this should be considered under the affirmative rather than negative procedure. I am delighted that, as a result of our representations, the Minister decided he is not going to have a fight about it but will agree with our recommendation. Although, as I said, I cannot speak on behalf of the committee, I am sure that we are all very grateful to him. When other Ministers are looking at the advice they get from our committee, they would do very well to take a leaf out of his book.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for these important amendments, which will ensure that cleaner zero-emission buses will provide bus services right across England. It was an anomaly that my noble friend Lady Randerson spotted before Christmas and raised directly with the Minister. Therefore, I am pleased to see it has been addressed here and that the Minister has acknowledged the part the late Baroness Randerson played.

Zero-emission buses will cut levels of air pollution and boost manufacturing while helping to accelerate the decarbonisation potential of buses. Some 55% of the public have said that they are more likely to travel by bus if they know it is zero-emission; therefore, it is a win-win situation. I thank the Government for responding so positively to our amendments.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House will be grateful to the Minister and acknowledge his decision to accept the recommendation of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

In relation to this group, I gave notice to the Minister that there were two questions I was going to ask him, so that I could hear what he had to say at the Dispatch Box before we decided our attitude to these amendments. He has dealt with the first one already. It is very important that he has stated at the Dispatch Box that the measure is to apply to all local bus services, whether franchised, privately operated or run by a local authority bus company that is directly owned and a subsidiary, and that there is nothing here that discriminates against or disadvantages private bus companies. I have heard what the Minister says and I am grateful and glad to be able to note that.

My second was more in the nature of a question, and it is a very important consideration. We have a bus manufacturing industry in this country. We make quite a lot of buses and we are quite good at it. We employ a reasonable number of people in the manufacture of buses. When all buses are going to be zero emission, what assurances do we have that British industry will be in a position to make zero-emission buses in the numbers required, and that the outcome of this measure will not be a flooding of Britain with Chinese or other buses made overseas, to the detriment of good British jobs and businesses?

Understanding the department’s view on where this path is taking us in relation to manufacturing and employment is increasingly to the fore in the minds of people considering the net-zero journey, if I may call it that. So the views of the Minister and the department on that will be of crucial importance to us.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, does he remember that the biggest bus manufacturer in the United Kingdom for many years was Leyland buses? Does he remember what happened when it asked for a government subvention in order to stay afloat? The company then went bust. So, is it not rather strange that he should now advocate that buses should be made and built in Britain, when the last Conservative Government let our biggest bus operator go to the wall?

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I recall that my childhood was punctuated by almost monthly demands for subventions from Leyland as an operator. They were often granted in exchange for improvements in productivity and manufacturing. Eventually, someone had to stop it—that was the simple fact of the matter. I was in that part of the world not so very long ago. It is sad that Leyland is not manufacturing buses and trucks, but it has left behind it the most splendid museum. I had an extremely enjoyable day looking at the marvellous old buses and lorries that can be found at the site, and I recommend it very much to the noble Lord when he is next there; it is an appropriate legacy. But let us now see what can be done to ensure that government policy allows existing successful businesses to continue and is not set to destroy them.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, can he tell us how he managed to escape from the museum? I am amazed he was not kept in there.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I have now sat down.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

Noble Lords might like to note that I was driving a Leyland bus last Saturday on Route 19. The vehicle is older than I am. It makes a lot of noise but it does not go very fast.

I thank in particular the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, for her remarks on this subject and for noting the work of the late Baroness Randerson on this. The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, asked directly about supporting UK manufacturing. My colleague in the other place, Minister Lightwood, recently chaired the inaugural meeting of the bus manufacturing panel on zero-emission buses. The Government are focused on delivering on their promise to bring jobs and investment into Britain’s industrial heartlands by boosting bus manufacturing through investment in zero-emission buses, while also driving up passenger comfort and service reliability. The scale of this technological ambition, combined with the highly skilled manufacturers across the UK, will ensure that the economic benefits of net zero are felt by workers across the country, including those building and using buses.

It is estimated that over 60% of zero-emission bus regional area-supported buses—the acronym is ZEBRA, but I am blowed if I am going to use it—will be procured from UK-based bus manufacturers, supporting economic growth and jobs across the zero-carbon transport industry. We want to see UK-based bus manufacturers build on this foundation and stimulate innovation and skills development to ensure that UK- based manufacturers are able to compete with high-quality, affordable products.

The UK’s continuing membership of the government procurement agreement prevents the department requiring that grant funding should be used to procure British-built zero-emission buses. The UK Government have no role in the procurement of buses, because that is the responsibility of the bus operators and/or local transport authorities and local authority bus companies.

The department is not able to require bidders to design their procurement processes in a way that would explicitly favour UK bus manufacturers. We are, however, exploring whether there are any relevant factors that we can build into this requirement, which may help to encourage competitive bids from UK firms without compromising wider commercial outcomes and delivery.

The supply chain for zero-emission buses is global, with UK bus manufacturing sourcing key components, such as vehicle batteries, from foreign-based companies. Those companies are therefore expected to continue to play an important role in the supply of zero-emission buses for the UK market, both through supplying key components and on occasion exporting complete vehicles directly to the UK market.

We have seen no evidence that foreign bus manufacturers are undercutting UK bus manufacturers. Recent evidence suggests the contrary—that UK bus manufacturers are not being undercut, with prices being broadly comparable. When zero-emission bus regional area orders have gone to international bus manufacturers, local transport authorities and bus operators have indicated that those decisions have been based on build quality and timeliness, rather than price. International manufacturers win some orders, just as UK manufacturers are winning orders abroad, from Germany to Hong Kong. A healthy and competitive global market is a positive thing, driving up performance and quality and driving down cost.

I hope that that puts the mind of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, at rest about the Government’s intentions in respect of British zero-emission bus manufacturing. I shall not speak further, other than to welcome the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Goodman of Wycombe, on Amendment 51. I hope that your Lordships will welcome my other amendments for zero-emission buses and accept the need for all my amendments.

Amendment 46 agreed.

Amendments 47 to 50

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

47: Clause 30, page 30, line 24, leave out “that area” and insert “England”
Member’s explanatory statement
See the statement for my amendment at clause 30, page 30, line 21.

48: Clause 30, page 30, line 24, at end insert—
“(1A) A service falls within this subsection if it is—(a) a local service which has one or more stopping places in England and which—(i) is registered under section 6 of the Transport Act 1985, or(ii) is not required to be registered under that section because of section 123J(2) or an exemption granted under section 123PA(1), or(b) a London local service (within the meaning given by section 179 of the Greater London Authority Act 1999).” Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment provides for the requirement to use zero-emission buses to apply to local services registered under section 6 of the Transport Act 1985, local services in franchise areas and London local services.

49: Clause 30, page 31, leave out lines 10 and 11
Member’s explanatory statement
See the statement for my amendment at clause 30, page 30 line 21.

50: Clause 30, page 31, line 17, at end insert—
“(4) In section 160 (regulations and orders)—(a) in subsection (2), for “or 141A(1)” substitute “, 141A(1) or 151A(2)(b)”, and(b) in subsection (3), for “or 141A(1)” substitute “, 141A(1) or 151A(2)(b)”.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment provides for regulations setting the date of first registration for the purposes of the zero-emission vehicles requirement to be subject to affirmative resolution procedure.

Amendments 47 to 50 agreed.

Amendment 51 not moved.

Amendment 52

Moved by

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

52: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“Review of the operation of the English national concessionary travel scheme(1) Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must conduct a review of the English national concessionary travel scheme (ENCTS).(2) The review must assess—(a) the overall effectiveness and impact of the ENCTS for eligible persons,(b) the impact of the timing restrictions of the ENCTS for eligible persons, and(c) the approximate cost of removing timing restrictions of the ENCTS to allow eligible persons to use the scheme on travel 24 hours a day and seven days a week.(3) In conducting the review, the Secretary of State must consult relevant stakeholders, including local councils, transport authorities and relevant user groups.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to review the current English national concessionary travel scheme.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, for the benefit of those with sight impairments, I should declare that my name is Natalie Bennett, or Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle. I am the other Green—and we are doing an unusual bit of tag-teaming here, because I did the Second Reading of this Bill when my noble friend was off on medical leave. Interestingly, I raised in my Second Reading speech the issues covered by Amendment 52, which talks about the way in which the national concessionary travel scheme does not meet the needs of lots of people who very much need to be able to use it.

As I said at Second Reading, the restrictions mean that the scheme does not start until 9.30 in the morning. Many people have medical appointments that require them to travel before that time, and many people are providing childcare, often for relatives, which requires them to travel before that time. I described making concessionary travel a 24-hour event then as a modest investment that the Government could make. What we have now in Amendment 52 is a modest amendment, because it does not require the Government to do anything; it calls for a review of the scheme. I have told stories based on experiences that have been shared with me, particularly by some very doughty transport campaigners in Sheffield—but that is all anecdotal. This amendment would demand that there is a review of the scheme to see how it is meeting people’s needs and to help to uncover the costs of expanding the scheme.

This is a very simple amendment—a review amendment. It is not the intention to divide the House on it, but I hope that the Government will take it on board and I beg to move.

17:45

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 58, standing in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, regarding the recording and sharing of data about assaults on the buses.

For the record, I declare my interest as chair of Amey, as set out in the register. Our involvement with buses is primarily collaboration with councils, such as Kent County Council, to use bus CCTV cameras to identify and capture data on road defects, such as potholes and cracks, to improve overall road maintenance. To avoid any conflict, as the Minister knows, I have restricted myself to speaking only on matters that impact transport which are outside any commercial involvement. It was for that reason that I spoke earlier during the Session in support of the noble Baroness, Lady Grey-Thompson, in her advocacy of long-standing issues that face disabled people on transport, particularly trains, about which I feel very strongly.

I am grateful to the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Hendy, whose knowledge of transport issues is greater than that of anyone else in this House—even more so than my noble friend Lord Moylan—and whose advocacy of reform and improvement from a position of unparalleled professional expertise makes the transport debates in your Lordships’ House among the best in Parliament. With that glowing tribute, I hope that he will support the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Woodley.

From my experience in another place during my years representing the people of Lewisham East, I know that assaults on the vulnerable, particularly women, on buses, especially at night, was a serious issue, as evidenced in representations made to me in my constituency advice bureaux. These incidents ranged from verbal harassment to physical attacks. To this day, such attacks continue to significantly impact women’s sense of safety on public transportation, especially at night.

It is unacceptable that, in this day and age, the vulnerable, the elderly and women still feel vulnerable to harassment on the buses. Yet when incidents happen, the levels of reporting vary by location and factors such as time of day, route and bus occupancy. I accept and welcome the fact that many bus operators have implemented measures to increase safety, such as installing surveillance cameras on some buses and in stations, employing more visible staff and increasing security patrols—although many drivers are, understandably, protected and out of sight from many passengers. I welcome the fact that promoting awareness campaigns to encourage the reporting of incidents takes place.

However, I believe—and agree with the noble Lord, Lord Woodley—that more can be done. Few victims know how to report assaults, whether the bus companies have established hotlines or whether support services exist specifically for this purpose. Ignorance creates fear. Relevant signage is too often close to non-existent. The noble Lord, Lord Woodley, is right to seek to add to the law to protect individuals from harassment and violence in public places. There is all too little, somewhat sporadic, documented evidence of assaults on women on buses in the UK, with various studies, reports and statistics seeking to highlight the issue.

Over the years, I have noticed that the British Transport Police reports take this seriously, and that some of its statistics include data on incidents of sexual offences. The Home Office releases some reports on crime in England and Wales, including some statistics on violent crimes and sexual assault, but without this legislative backing. Groups such as Stop Street Harassment and the Everyday Sexism Project collect testimonies and survey data from women about their experiences of harassment on public transport, providing qualitative evidence on the issue. Of course, the media can help, and research studies have examined the nature and impact of public transport harassment.

The first part of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, is commendable. It goes further than anything on the statute book to date. If passed, as I believe it should be, bus operators would be required by law to record and register all data about assaults and violent behaviour on their buses, and local transport authorities would consult unions about the data. This is a Government who support the unions as a growth sector and therefore I hope that there will be support across all parties for the amendment. In return, as set out in the second part of the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, the unions could add their voice to help create a legal deterrent against such incidents, which continue to damage the confidence of the elderly and all vulnerable groups who travel on the buses and affect the safety of women.

I hope the Minister will agree to this small, yet important, change in the law. In the absence of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, I shall move the amendment when it is called.

[Baroness Owen of Alderley Edge (Con)]

My Lords, I support Amendment 58 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, and I apologise that I was not able to speak at Second Reading.

The Government have an admirable ambition to halve violence against women and girls in a decade. I believe this amendment would aid the Government to achieve this by ensuring bus operators recorded and shared all data about assaults and violent behaviour that had taken place on their buses. I focus my remarks particularly on women, as the West Yorkshire Combined Authority conducted a survey which found that only 41% of women feel safe catching a bus at night, compared to 68% of men. This fear means that women are unfairly forced to pay for taxis to be reassured of their own safety. Women have even spoken of questioning whether their clothes are suitable so as not to attract unwanted attention when using the bus service. No woman should have to be fearful for her safety on public transport. The noble Lord’s amendment would go some way to encouraging bus operators to tackle the issue of violence and harassment, and, importantly, give people the confidence to come forward and report incidents on the bus.

In 2021, TfL launched a campaign that sought to end the normalisation of abuse on its services by encouraging people to text the British Transport Police. It stated that it wanted to make it clear

“that it is never acceptable and that the strongest possible action will always be taken”.

We cannot continue with a situation where more than half of women under 35—including me—decide to drive or get a taxi instead of getting a bus or train because they fear crime or harassment. The bus service should be available for all to use safely and free from fear. I fully commend the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, on his amendment and I hope the Government will back it.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to my Amendment 57 and return to the topic of safety. I am indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, both for suggesting the solution in Committee and for adding his name to my amendment. In Committee, the noble Lord suggested that buses could adopt a “Vision Zero” accident policy, just like the building industry. It did not occur to me until afterwards that this is exactly what Transport for London does.

I thank the Minister and his Bill team for the extremely collegiate way in which they have worked, and for the letter that he sent to noble Peers addressing some of my concerns from Committee. I thank him for guidance on the use of NEBOSH and IOSH, the updating of STATS19 in SCRICS, and the publication of clear safety data by the DVSA. The guidance will make this a safer Bill.

On my plans for this amendment to implement a Vision Zero programme, I was told that it could not be in the Bill because it was more of an idea than a concrete law—it was a vision. I consulted an external constitutional expert who said that it would work very well in the Bill because the meaning of the amendment is clear. The Government say the implications are vague. If the implications are vague, then it could apply whether it is in guidance or in the Bill.

The Mayor of London has committed to a Vision Zero action plan for accidents and lists the obligations—safe speed, safe streets, safe vehicles, et cetera—and what they entail. The mayor’s example and elaboration of details demonstrate that the principles can be given concrete application and should be in the Bill.

This Bill could leave this House a considerably safer Bill than it arrived. With these changes, it could save lives. I cannot see any reason why my amendment could not be in the Bill, and I appear to have considerable support in this. I urge the Government to accept the amendment and warn them that I intend to test the opinion of the House.

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I would like to add my support to Amendment 58, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley. I am sorry that I did not spot that it was down in time to add my name to it. The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and the noble Baroness Owen have set out the case for it eloquently, particularly the fear of vulnerable people, women and older people in using buses at night, when there are often fewer passengers. I also think it is relevant not only to passengers on the buses but to members of staff, particularly drivers, who we know are at high risk, sadly, of verbal and physical harassment and deserve to be protected too.

I spend quite a lot of my time in this House talking about online violence against women and girls, but the rules we have talked about there should apply in the physical world as well. One of those requirements is that we should collect data to know exactly the scale of the problem. Without the necessary data, there is, as we know, a risk of under-reporting. Bus companies and the Department for Transport would then be at great risk of saying that there is not a problem, although we all know it exists, particularly those who use buses regularly. I hope that the Minister will accept this straightforward and simple amendment about encouraging the collection of data.

Finally, I am reminded of the Question I asked the Minister in this House on 24 February about violence against women and girls on trains. He gave a typically generous and fulsome Answer in which he agreed that this was both an issue and something the Government wanted to take very seriously. He talked about regular meetings between Department for Transport Ministers and Home Office Ministers, all to fulfil the Government’s stated ambition of cutting violence against women and girls. While the House has the opportunity to take this measure and call for data to be collected, I hope the Minister and the Government will be able to accept this amendment.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I want to speak to Amendment 60, which would introduce a £2 bus fare cap, subject to periodic review. The Government’s official evaluation of the first 10 months of the £2 cap showed a 5% increase in bus patronage outside London, out of a 13% total increase in the period. However, their own survey data implies a stronger effect: some 40% of people said they took more bus journeys when the cap was in place, and 90% of those taking more bus journeys said it was because of the fare cap. In Transport Focus’s research, 80% said it helped with the cost of living and 40% said their bus journeys were replacing those they would have made by car, so awareness of the policy and support for it are high.

The increase in the bus fare cap from £2 to £3 has created real barriers for passengers, particularly those on low incomes who rely on buses to go about their everyday lives. Do not just take my word for it; the DfT’s own bus fare statistics, published just last week, show a 4.1% rise in the cost of bus fares outside London between December 2023 and December 2024. This legislation is about improving bus services and enabling local authorities to have the choice about how local services are provided, but unless there are affordable bus fares, there is a huge hole in this plan.

This amendment would allow for a £2 bus fare cap scheme to be set up and priority access to funds for those authorities that opted in to this scheme. Affordable fares, alongside franchising and enhanced partnerships, will truly ensure that our bus services properly serve our local communities. The Official Opposition last week told this House that the Conservative manifesto pledged to keep the £2 bus fare cap. It will be interesting to see this evening whether their words are genuine, but I hope Members across this House will support our amendment.

I want also to add our support for Amendment 57, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hampton, to implement a Vision Zero programme for buses to improve safety in the sector. I look forward to the response of the Minister to the issues raised in this group.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I will respond to the contribution from the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, who made a similar speech—in fact, almost exactly the same speech—in Committee. If you are on the fringes of government or in opposition, it is easy to demand reductions, whether of bus fares or something else. In my experience, the Liberal Democrats have made a virtue of such behaviour over many years.

I recollect that the Liberals were in government, along with the Conservative Party, from 2010 to 2015. Did they introduce a £2 or even a £3 maximum bus fare in those years? No, they did not. In fact, government statistics indicate that, every year between 2010 and 2015, bus fares went up by an average of 3.8%. Under the Conservative and Liberal Administration, bus fares increased in real terms by almost 20% over five years. Of course, the Liberals are not in government anymore, so it is easy for the noble Baroness to sit there and demand reductions from £3 to £2.

18:00

The noble Baroness appealed for support from the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, and the Conservative Party. In fact, during the Conservative Governments’ terms in office from 2010 to 2024, bus fares increased by over 300%. I am sure that the noble Lord will respond with his usual wit and humour, but—I said this to him in Committee—if he supports this amendment, there will be more than a grain of cynicism behind it.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I am ever grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Snape—if only, on this occasion, for reminding the House that bus fares went down under the Conservative Administration, ending with £2 as the maximum fare cap.

I am sorry that the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, seeks to call our good faith into question. My concern about her amendment is not that she wants to continue to promote this excellent Conservative policy, which we would have implemented had we been elected; it is with its practicalities. It is a pity that there is not a proper opportunity to interrogate it now, but I find the notion of a voluntary £2 fare cap appearing in statute very strange, especially on an unfunded basis. However, I look forward to hearing what the Minister will say about it.

I will briefly speak to my Amendment 59 before turning to other amendments. I do not intend—if noble Lords will forgive me—to address every amendment in the group, partly in the interests of time; I hope that is not rude of me. My Amendment 59 concerns the fact that last year Louise Haigh, the then Secretary of State for Transport—in, I think, her very last official action before she sank into political oblivion—announced bus funding for the country, to which the Minister has referred a number of times since. Three-quarters of that funding was given to local transport authorities on the basis of a completely new formula, which had never been consulted on and which nobody had been given any advance notice of.

When I protested about this at the time and asked for an explanation of or rationale for the formula—because distribution formulae are very important—the Minister said:

“The Government are entitled to make decisions about how they wish to spend money”.—[Official Report, 19/11/24; col. 127.]


That was the substance of his answer. That proposition is broadly true: we often ask whether the Government will spend, for example, more money on defence or welfare, or less on aid or transport. They are the big issues that the Government are elected to make decisions about. However, when it comes to the distribution of money to other public authorities—those pots having been decided—two other considerations need to be taken into account. The first is—although I am not attributing this to the Government—the possibility that formulae are manipulated to favour certain local authorities over others; the second is a simple obligation of fairness to local authorities that they understand how their funding is being calculated and how they are being rewarded.

My amendment seeks to require the Government to set out, in the near future, not only a formula but a rationale for the bus funding distribution, including some notice of its distributional effects as well as the alternatives that they may have considered. This would contribute greatly to good government and transparency. I do not propose to divide the House on the amendment, but I hope that it would have had support, because it would have acted as a very good example to many other departments.

I turn to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hampton. Buses are dangerous. Somebody told me a statistic 20 years ago—it is one of those statistics that does not appear in regular series—that was so astonishing that I had to ensure that it was robust. It stated that, at least in London, 50% of women aged over 65 presenting at A&E had suffered an injury inside a bus. The reason is straightforward: if you are inside a bus with modern brakes and the brakes are applied, one can be thrown about the bus, including when going to a seat, coming from a seat or simply standing—many of us, I think, will have had this experience, although not all of us will have fallen over. Because those responsible for health and safety have made brakes sharper and more effective, as that would appear to make the bus safer, there is not always consideration for what happens to the people inside. That needs to be looked at.

It is also true that buses cause injuries to people outside. They sometimes have large mirrors that stick out. Have people thought properly about that?

I had some involvement in the construction industry—not directly, but in a non-executive capacity under various roles—and I was struck by the complete transformation that has taken place in that industry over the past 20 or 25 years. Some 30 years ago, it was expected that people would lose their lives on building sites or that they would suffer life-changing injuries, but a determination on the part of the industry to change that—to have a vision zero—means that, nowadays, a death or serious injury on a construction site is not only very rare but shocking and pored over, and people try to learn lessons from it. That attitude, which is what I believe the noble Lord, Lord Hampton, wishes to bring to the bus industry, is commendable. It perhaps requires a change in mindset—there are examples; the noble Lord drew attention to the Mayor of London’s activities—and it should be a national programme. If he wishes to divide the House on his amendment, the Conservative group will support him.

Closely related to that is Amendment 58, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley. I am very disappointed that the noble Lord, for whom I have a high regard, is not in his place and has not been able to speak to his amendment. Colleagues on my Benches have spoken very clearly about the importance of safety, not in the sense of being shaken around in a bus by the brakes but in relation to the threats, particularly to women and girls, of violent assault or intimidation on public transport—or, more specifically for today’s debate, on buses. Clearly, the recording of data to support responses to that should be mandatory and taken forward in the way suggested by the noble Lord’s amendment. That too is an amendment that, if he were here to press it, we would have supported—and we still will, in principle, if there are some means by which it could be voted on.

Finally, I turn to an amendment not in this group but debated earlier, which will be called shortly. Amendment 53, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, relates to an audit or review of bus services to villages. When it was debated, I said very clearly from this Dispatch Box—and I am very happy to say it again—that the Conservative Party is the party of villages. If the noble Baroness chose to divide the House on her amendment, there can be no question but that, on this occasion at least, the Conservative Party would stand solidly with her and follow her through the Lobby.

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)]

My Lords, this final set of amendments covers a range of bus policy issues. I will first address Amendment 52,which would require the Secretary of State to conduct a review of the English national concessionary travel scheme.

The Government want everybody who needs it to have access to public transport and are committed to improving the system so that it is more inclusive and enables disabled people to travel safely, confidently and with dignity. In England, the English national concessionary travel scheme costs around £700 million annually, and any changes to the statutory obligations—such as the hours in which the pass can be used being extended—would therefore need to be very carefully considered. Local authorities in England already have the power to offer concessions in addition to their statutory obligations. For example, we have seen this in London, where individuals aged 60 and over are eligible for the 60-plus Oyster card, which entitles them to free travel on a number of services. Similar schemes exist in other parts of the country, where local authorities have chosen to provide specific support to their communities through offers that go beyond their statutory obligations. A review of the English national concessionary travel scheme concluded in 2024, which included an assessment of the travel time of the scheme. We are currently considering the next steps on this. On that basis, I ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

Amendment 54 would require the Secretary of State to review the impact of making bus travel free for children. The Government remain committed to exploring targeted solutions that deliver value for money for taxpayers, while ensuring affordable bus travel for those who need it most, particularly young people. Bus operators can choose to offer concessions to children and young people. For example, in the year ending March 2025, youth concessions were offered by at least one commercial bus operator in 73 out of 85 local authority areas in England outside London. Local authorities have powers to introduce concessions or discounts for young people. We want bus fares to be affordable. That is why we are funding a £3 bus fare cap until the end of 2025. We continue to keep the affordability of bus travel under review. On that basis, I ask the noble Baroness not to press her amendment.

On Amendment 55, I thank my noble friend Lord Woodley for raising the idea of a national bus forum. I understand what my noble friend is seeking to achieve through this amendment. However, I assure him that my department actively engages with all stakeholders and has conducted extensive engagement in developing the proposals before your Lordship’s House today. The Government recognise the importance of working with stakeholders to ensure that bus services across the country serve the passengers and communities that rely on them. They understand that engagement with local authorities, bus operators, trade unions and community groups—to name but a few groups—is imperative to delivering the best outcomes. I assure my noble friend Lord Woodley that conversations with these groups will continue beyond the Bill. This is just one stop on the journey to better buses, and the department will use its convening power to bring stake- holders together in the interests of passengers, local areas and the industry. I therefore do not consider it necessary to establish a statutory body to duplicate work that the department has already undertaken.

Amendment 56, tabled by my noble friend Lord Woodley, seeks to place a statutory requirement on the Secretary of State to publish a report assessing the impact of the Bill’s provision on the ability of the Government to introduce collective bargaining for the local bus sector nationwide. I have explained that this Bill does not mandate a single bus operating model, and it will be for local leaders to decide what model is right for their area. These changes will not happen overnight. It will likely take up to five years for local transport authorities to franchise or set up a local authority bus company. Six months, as suggested in my noble friend’s amendment, is clearly too short a period of time to assess the Bill’s impact. The Bill is about empowering local areas. They will be best placed to engage with local stakeholders, including trade unions, as they work together to provide the best services for their communities.

18:15

In addition, as part of the Employment Rights Bill, the Government are introducing fair pay agreements in adult social care in England and social care in Wales. We intend to consider introducing sectoral agreements in other sectors in due course. It is important that we learn from this process and apply such learning when considering any future sectors. On that basis, I would ask that the amendment is not pressed.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hampton, for Amendment 57. It seeks to implement a Vision Zero programme for the bus sector, as was eloquently described. The Government are sympathetic to the aims of this amendment. We are deeply concerned about safety incidents in the bus sector, and indeed on any mode of transport, and we share a vision of working together to improve road safety.

As I said during the first day on Report, the Government are taking steps to improve safety in the bus sector. The DVSA has assured me that it is prioritising public service vehicle reporting, with a streamlining of the process enabling more timely interventions and making it easier for everyone, including bus staff, to raise concerns. My officials are working with the Standing Committee for Road Injury Collision Statistics to ensure that there is full visibility over any safety incidents on buses, wherever they occur, including in bus stations, helping to identify areas for potential further action.

However, there is more to be done, which is why, for the first time in well over a decade, the department will publish a road safety strategy. Enforcement action can be taken against those who operate a local service unreliably or in a dangerous way by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency and the traffic commissioners.

Vision Zero strategies are increasingly being adopted by local areas, with Greater Manchester adopting its own approach in December last year, joining London, West Yorkshire and Liverpool City Region, among others. Such strategies provide a means to allow local leaders to determine the most appropriate approach to their local circumstances, which this Bill encourages and supports.

While we seek to eliminate any serious injuries or deaths on our transport networks, this amendment is not the right means of achieving this laudable aim. It cuts across the forthcoming and actual work on a new road safety strategy, on which further details will be announced in due course. For those reasons, I hope that the noble Lord will consider not pressing his amendment.

My noble friend Lord Woodley’s Amendment 58, advocated by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, seeks to require bus operators to record and share with the local transport authority data on assaults and violent behaviour, and for the local transport authority to consult with trade unions about staff safety issues that arise from the data. The provisions of the Bill include measures to enhance the safety of staff and passengers on bus services, including ensuring improved safety for women and girls. This amendment would place an additional burden on public service vehicle operators and local transport authorities through an increase in the time and resources required to record, collate and share data, as well as on LTAs to consult in respect of it.

Many operators already collect such data, and it should be up to them to decide what works best for their operations and staff, rather than for the Government to direct them on this. Moreover, we need to consider that any such data will need to be treated sensitively and that not all victims of incidents may want such data to be recorded and shared. We do not want to discourage victims from reporting incidents.

When people do report incidents to the police, under the Home Office crime recording rules all reports, whether from victims, witnesses or third parties, and whether crime-related or not, will, unless immediately recorded as a crime, result in the registration of an auditable incident report by the police. This is in line with the vision that all police forces in England and Wales have the best crime reporting system in the world: one that is consistently applied, delivers accurate statistics that are trusted by the public, and puts the needs of victims at its core. So it is not appropriate that we duplicate that work of the police. Even more importantly, for those who choose not to report incidents to the police, we need to make sure they are confident in whom they choose to report to and that their data will not be shared without their consent. With all that in mind, I ask my noble friend not to move his amendment.

Amendment 59 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, proposes the introduction of a statutory requirement on the Secretary of State to publish a report detailing a proposed bus funding formula for consultation. This would risk constraining the department’s ability to adapt bus funding allocation methodologies swiftly and efficiently while the consultation takes place. The noble Lord well knows that the significant local transport authority share of the funding package of £955 million awarded last December was allocated on the basis of population, bus mileage and deprivation. That was a fair package and, I believe, a very reasonable way of allocating that funding. In contrast, the previous Government’s allocation of local transport funding was entirely selective in the number and sort of local transport authorities it was applied to, and the choice of those authorities was not immediately apparent to either those receiving the money or, more importantly, those who did not.

Given the current financial constraints facing the Government, it is essential that the department remains agile and responsive, allowing it to set budgets based on the most up-to-date funding envelope and evolving priorities. Although the department remains committed to engaging stakeholders and enhancing transparency, the requirements outlined in this amendment could hinder rather than help its ability to deliver effective and adaptable bus funding solutions in what is inevitably a financially constrained environment. For these reasons, I hope the noble Lord will not move his amendment.

Finally, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, for bringing forward Amendment 60, which would require the Secretary of State to establish a voluntary £2 cap on single bus fares in England, to be reviewed every three years. When the previous Government’s £2 cap ended at the end of 2024, the Government decided to introduce a new cap at £3 to prevent a cliff-edge return to commercial fares and to protect those who rely on most affordable bus services, while also allowing a significant saving to the taxpayer. The Government are providing funding of over £150 million to deliver the £3 cap in England, outside London, for the duration of 2025. Maintaining the cap at £2 for the entirety of 2025 would have cost an estimated £444 million, so the £3 cap still represents a significant saving for taxpayers. As I remarked on the first day on Report, it is also notable that the previous Government had failed to provide any further funding for the £2 cap outwith the closing months of last year.

In any event, local authorities and metro mayors can also fund their own schemes to keep fares lower than £3, as is happening in West Yorkshire, Greater Manchester and the West of England. The £2 national fare cap has been shown to deliver relatively low value for money, which would only worsen over time as the cost of maintaining fares at £2 grows. Noble Lords have already heard from me on the first day of Report that, although the cap increased from £2 to £3, individual fares rose only by inflation above £2 and, of course, most urban bus fares were under £2 to start with. On that basis, I ask the noble Baroness not to move her amendment.

I conclude my remarks by thanking all noble Lords for their contributions to improving the Bill, which has been possible through productive engagement during the Bill’s passage. We have identified amendments that will help improve bus services for passengers, help local transport authorities run their bus networks, deal practically with the issue of floating bus stops and generally ensure that the Bill functions as intended. As we move towards Third Reading, where I look forward to discussing any outstanding issues with noble Lords, I thank noble Lords for their contributions.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his very detailed and careful response and thank all noble Lords who contributed to what has been a rich and rather lively and passionate debate on issues that really matter to bus users, whether they are able to access the bus at all because of cost and whether they are safe in the environment of the bus. I am sure many people will be pleased to hear that I will not run through every amendment, but I want to make a couple of comments in response to what the Minister said.

First of all, on Amendment 52 and the concessionary travel scheme, I am slightly encouraged by the noble Lord’s pointing to the Government giving consideration to a review—although he said that local authorities have the option of subsidising the general English scheme, and of course we know how incredibly cash-strapped local authorities are; I declare my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

I also take encouragement from the noble Lord’s response to Amendment 54, about a review of the costs and use of bus travel by children. The noble Lord said that the Government remain committed to exploring the issue; I encourage them to explore north of the English border to Scotland, where the Green-introduced free travel for under-22s has proved extremely popular and successful.

I will just mention very briefly the excellent amendment on Vision Zero from the noble Lord, Lord Hampton. Vision Zero matters to me much, for very personal reasons, and I think we should see it everywhere. I take the points that the noble Minister made about various safety measures, but Vision Zero is something beyond that. It means knowing that people will do the wrong thing, and creating an environment where that is not going to leave them dead or seriously injured. That is not just the same thing as safety measures, and it is important that that is understood.

Finally, I will also mention—

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

—as was addressed by a number of noble Lords, the issue of reporting of assaults on buses. The Government have a target of reducing violence against women and girls by half. This is a method for doing it. As many noble Lords from around the House have said, this would be an important step, and I hope the Government will take it on board for the future. But in the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 52.

Amendment 52 withdrawn.

Amendment 53

Moved by

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle]

53: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“Review of the provision of bus services to villages in England(1) The Secretary of State must, within two years of the day on which this Act is passed, conduct a review of the level of bus services being provided to villages in England.(2) The review under subsection (1) must assess—(a) the change in the level of services to villages since the passing of this Act,(b) the number of villages in England not served by bus services,(c) demographic characteristics of villages in relation to the level of bus services available, and(d) the impact of this Act on the provision of bus services to villages in England.(3) In conducting the review under subsection (1), the Secretary of State must consult relevant stakeholders, including local councils and transport authorities.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to review provision of bus services to villages in England.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

This amendment was debated earlier and we heard expressions of support, so I beg leave to test the opinion of the House.

18:27

Division 2

Ayes: 242

Noes: 157

18:38

Amendments 54 to 56 not moved.

Amendment 57

Moved by

[Lord Hampton]

57: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“Implementing a Vision Zero programmeThe Secretary of State must work with bus service providers, trade unions, professional bodies, and appropriate training institutions to implement a Vision Zero programme within the bus sector, modelled on best practice in the industry, with the aim of eliminating serious injuries in the course of bus operations.” Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to collaborate with key stakeholders to implement a Vision Zero programme for buses, aiming to eliminate serious injuries during bus operations and improve overall safety within the sector.

[Lord Hampton (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister made me very excited when he talked about the Government being deeply sympathetic to improvements to safety and Vision Zero increasingly being adopted by local authorities. He then gave the can an almighty kick down the road. Therefore, I beg to test the opinion of the House.

18:39

Division 3

Ayes: 240

Noes: 148

18:50

Amendment 58

Moved by

[Lord Moynihan]

58: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“Recording and sharing data about assaults(1) Any bus operator which has entered into a contract to operate a franchising scheme or enhanced partnership plan must record all data about assaults and violent behaviour that have taken place on their buses and share that data with their Local Transport Authority.(2) Local Transport Authorities must consult relevant trade unions regarding any issues of staff safety arising from the data collected under subsection (1).”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would require bus operators to record all data about assaults and violent behaviour on their buses and LTAs to consult unions about that data.

[Lord Moynihan (Con)]

My Lords, I place on record my thanks to the Minister. Amendment 58 from the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, which I spoke to, is an important measure to address assaults and violent behaviour on the buses, especially against women, and provides a valuable role for the trade unions, so I seek to test the will of the House.

18:50

Division 4

Ayes: 226

Noes: 142

19:00

Amendment 59 not moved.

Amendment 60

Moved by

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

60: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“£2 bus fare scheme(1) The Secretary of State must establish a scheme to cap the fare for a single bus journey at £2.(2) Bus operators in England, including private companies, franchisees, and local authorities, may opt into the scheme.(3) Service operators under this scheme may receive preferential consideration for the allocation of financial grants under section 19 of this Act.(4) The Secretary of State may review the terms of the scheme every three years from the day on which this Act is passed and amend it through regulations made by statutory instrument.(5) A statutory instrument under this section may not be made unless a draft has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to introduce a scheme capping single bus fares at £2, alongside the existing £3 scheme. The scheme will be subject to periodic review.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the Minister’s word and I believe it is essential that the £2 bus fare cap scheme goes hand in hand with the existing cap. Therefore, I wish to test the opinion of the House.

19:01

Division 5

Ayes: 59

Noes: 148

19:12

Amendment 61

Tabled by

[Baroness Brinton]

61: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“Compliance with the Equality Act 2010(1) The Transport Act 2000 is amended as follows.(2) In section 108 (local transport plans), after subsection 1(b), insert—“(c) ensure bus services which are subject to the provisions of the Bus Services (No.2) Act 2025 do not discriminate against disabled persons as defined by section 15 of the Equality Act 2010.””Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment links the Equality and Public Sector Equality Duty (PSED) provisions in Section 15 of the Equality Act 2010 to local transport authorities and local PSV bus services under both the Transport Act 2000 and this bill. It also clarifies that any bus operating under the provisions of this Bill must comply with the PSED.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I am grateful for what the Minister said the other day at the Dispatch Box about Amendment 61. I was not terribly happy with his response, but I will not test the opinion of the House.

Amendment 61 not moved.

Clause 33: Commencement and transitional provision

Amendment 61A

Moved by

[Lord Blunkett]

61A: Clause 33, page 32, line 8, at end insert—
“(1A) Section (Provision and design of floating bus stops) comes into force at the end of the period of two months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment provides for the clause about guidance on the provision and design of floating bus stops to come into force two months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 61A agreed.

The Schedule: Procedure for varying franchising scheme

Amendments 62 to 64

Moved by

[Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill]

62: The Schedule, page 35, line 35, at end insert—
“(da) such persons with disabilities (within the meaning given by section 6 of the Equality Act 2010) who are users or prospective users of local services, or such organisations appearing to the authority or authorities to be representative of such persons, as they think fit;”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires a franchising authority to consult disabled persons, or organisations representative of disabled persons, before adding an area to the area to which the franchising scheme relates.

63: The Schedule, page 38, line 15, at end insert—
“(da) such persons with disabilities (within the meaning given by section 6 of the Equality Act 2010) who are users or prospective users of local services, or such organisations appearing to the authority or authorities to be representative of such persons, as they think fit;”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires a franchising authority to consult disabled persons, or organisations representative of disabled persons, before varying (without adding to) the area to which the franchising scheme relates.

64: The Schedule, page 40, line 19, at end insert—
“(ia) such persons with disabilities (within the meaning given by section 6 of the Equality Act 2010) who are users or prospective users of local services, or such organisations appearing to the authority or authorities to be representative of such persons, as they think fit, and”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment requires a franchising authority to consult disabled persons, or organisations representative of disabled persons, before varying a franchising scheme in some way other than varying the area.

Amendments 62 to 64 agreed.