Bus Services (No. 2) Bill [HL]

Baroness Pidgeon Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 2nd April 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

I made an exception for my noble friend straight away, because I knew he might react.

Stand on the corner of Parliament Square and watch them. There are cycle lanes and traffic lights, and a substantial number of cyclists ignore the traffic lights—because in their view nothing is coming—and set off around Parliament Square. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Blunkett and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, on the amendment that we are discussing. We ought to acknowledge the fact that, unless there is some sort of enforcement, as my noble friend suggested, the minority of cyclists who behave in that way will continue to behave like that.

Mention has been made of the cycle lanes and the two bus stops at the other side of Westminster Bridge. Only last week, I happened to be crossing the bridge in the direction of travel towards the House, on the left-hand side, where the cycle lane and the bus stop is, in the opinion of earlier speakers, supposedly the safer of the two. There are Belisha beacons and a zebra crossing by the bus stop—a very small one that crosses the cycle lane. As I crossed one day last week, I had to dodge a cyclist—in fact, there were two of them, pretty close together—who ignored the Belisha beacons and the zebra crossing. I said something to the first one as he passed—I presume the second one was associated with him. He responded, and I do not know exactly what he said, but the second word was “off”. That sort of behaviour is all too predictable for a certain minority of cyclists.

I hope that, when he comes to respond, my noble friend the Minister will acknowledge the very real fears, particularly of those who are partially sighted or blind, and that these problems are real and that it is long past time that we tackle them.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, for those who are listening to this debate, my name is Baroness Pidgeon from the Liberal Democrat Benches.

Accessibility and safety have been strong features of the debate, at Second Reading, in Committee and today. I am pleased that the amendments before the House today would help make progress on floating bus stops. I was struck, by the debate in Committee and from discussions that I have had with visually impaired, blind and disabled campaigners, about the accessibility of the bus network. My Amendment 39 is a new amendment that seeks to ensure that all existing floating bus stops or bus stop bypasses are made safe and accessible within a reasonable period. Unlike the amendments that the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, has spoken to, it does not prohibit all floating bus stops, but it does seek to ensure an assessment of the current state of these types of bus stops and a programme to retrofit stops which do not meet the highest safety and accessibility standards.

Floating bus stops tend to be on busy main roads where cycle lanes have been added. They have been designed to tackle a serious issue of cyclist safety, particularly at the point where buses pull out into the main traffic. I want us to remember why this different design of bus stop was created, with absolutely the right intentions: to help prevent collisions with cyclists, and deaths, on these busy main roads. Clearly, in some locations, as we have discussed today, they have not been designed in a way that keeps everyone safe. Bad designs that mean passengers have to board or disembark a bus from or directly into a cycle lane are not acceptable. We have all seen good examples of this infrastructure—and bad examples.

This amendment seeks more detailed guidance, which would ensure that cyclists were kept safe and that blind, visually impaired and disabled passengers were safe and able to access bus services. I hope that the Minister supports this aim. I have met representative groups and received correspondence from different sides of this debate. One thing that unites everyone is the need to ensure that these types of bus stops are designed to the highest possible standards of safety for all users. This amendment ensures that an assessment of current floating bus stops is carried out within six months and that a retrofit programme is then carried out within 18 months. This is a sensible way forward, which I hope that the House can support. It will ensure progress on this issue, about which we have heard loudly and clearly today.

Since tabling my amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, has tabled his own amendments, which I welcome. They would allow progress in the way that my amendment seeks. Therefore, I would like to hear from the Minister whether the Government are minded to accept the noble Lord’s amendments. What assurance can the Minister give the House that the guidance for floating bus stops will be reviewed at pace for all local authorities, that local authorities will have to review their existing floating bus stops, and that there will be a retrofit programme for those that do not meet the guidance—particularly those that we have heard about so powerfully, where the island is just not wide enough and passengers are forced into the cycle lane simply to use the bus?

This has been a passionate debate from all sides of the House and we will all be listening carefully to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, my name is Lord Moylan and I am the Conservative Front-Bench spokesman—yay.

The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, knows that I have the highest personal regard for him, as I do for my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond. They both bring a perspective on this issue which I cannot share and do not possess. However, I do know something, from past experience, about the design and management of roads.

The essential problem is, as was stated by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, that there are locations where road space is a scarce resource. The way in which we choose to deal with this is by a sort of top-down allocation of uses, so that we say, “This is for the pedestrian, this is for buses, this is for bicycles, and this is for general traffic”. Inevitably, people are left dissatisfied, because these are almost insoluble decisions to make. They are a mixture of managerial and political decisions, and they are fundamentally questions of priority, and those priorities shift over time.

What has certainly been the case is that, in recent years, the priority has shifted substantially in favour of the cyclist. I think that the mood in the House today is that perhaps it is time to look again at the priority that should be given to pedestrians, and particularly to disabled pedestrians. For that reason, I will say that, while we do not object to the amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, if my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond chooses to test the opinion of the House on his Amendments 36 and 38, we will support him.

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Tabled by

[Baroness Pidgeon]

39: After Clause 25, insert the following new Clause—
“Assessment to retrofit floating bus stops(1) Within six months of the day on which this Act is passed, the Secretary of State must conduct a full assessment of all existing floating bus stops to determine their level of safety and compliance with relevant safety and accessibility guidance.(2) The assessment must also identify any necessary retrofits to ensure floating bus stops are fully accessible and designed inclusively.(3) Following the assessment, the Secretary of State must develop and implement a programme to retrofit existing floating bus stops in accordance with relevant safety and accessibility standards.(4) The retrofit programme must ensure that floating bus stops are designed to allow room for passengers to board and alight directly between the bus and the pavement safely, without accessing a cycle lane.(5) The retrofit programme detailed in subsection (3) must be completed within 18 months of the assessment’s conclusion.”Member's explanatory statement
This new clause requires the Secretary of State to assess all existing floating bus stops for safety and accessibility compliance within six months of the Act's passage and to complete any necessary retrofits within 18 months thereafter.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, having considered the Minister’s response from the Dispatch Box, I will not move my amendment.

Amendment 39 not moved.

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[Lord Goodman of Wycombe (Con)]

My Lords, my Amendment 51 concerns the matter to which the Minister has just referred. I speak as a member of the Delegated Powers Committee—though of course I have no licence to speak for the committee. None the less, the Minister just reported entirely correctly what the committee said. We produced a recommendation on the crucial matter of the date by which the use of new non-zero emission vehicles would be prohibited. We took the view that this should be considered under the affirmative rather than negative procedure. I am delighted that, as a result of our representations, the Minister decided he is not going to have a fight about it but will agree with our recommendation. Although, as I said, I cannot speak on behalf of the committee, I am sure that we are all very grateful to him. When other Ministers are looking at the advice they get from our committee, they would do very well to take a leaf out of his book.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for these important amendments, which will ensure that cleaner zero-emission buses will provide bus services right across England. It was an anomaly that my noble friend Lady Randerson spotted before Christmas and raised directly with the Minister. Therefore, I am pleased to see it has been addressed here and that the Minister has acknowledged the part the late Baroness Randerson played.

Zero-emission buses will cut levels of air pollution and boost manufacturing while helping to accelerate the decarbonisation potential of buses. Some 55% of the public have said that they are more likely to travel by bus if they know it is zero-emission; therefore, it is a win-win situation. I thank the Government for responding so positively to our amendments.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House will be grateful to the Minister and acknowledge his decision to accept the recommendation of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

In relation to this group, I gave notice to the Minister that there were two questions I was going to ask him, so that I could hear what he had to say at the Dispatch Box before we decided our attitude to these amendments. He has dealt with the first one already. It is very important that he has stated at the Dispatch Box that the measure is to apply to all local bus services, whether franchised, privately operated or run by a local authority bus company that is directly owned and a subsidiary, and that there is nothing here that discriminates against or disadvantages private bus companies. I have heard what the Minister says and I am grateful and glad to be able to note that.

My second was more in the nature of a question, and it is a very important consideration. We have a bus manufacturing industry in this country. We make quite a lot of buses and we are quite good at it. We employ a reasonable number of people in the manufacture of buses. When all buses are going to be zero emission, what assurances do we have that British industry will be in a position to make zero-emission buses in the numbers required, and that the outcome of this measure will not be a flooding of Britain with Chinese or other buses made overseas, to the detriment of good British jobs and businesses?

Understanding the department’s view on where this path is taking us in relation to manufacturing and employment is increasingly to the fore in the minds of people considering the net-zero journey, if I may call it that. So the views of the Minister and the department on that will be of crucial importance to us.

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[Baroness Morgan of Cotes (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I would like to add my support to Amendment 58, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Woodley. I am sorry that I did not spot that it was down in time to add my name to it. The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and the noble Baroness Owen have set out the case for it eloquently, particularly the fear of vulnerable people, women and older people in using buses at night, when there are often fewer passengers. I also think it is relevant not only to passengers on the buses but to members of staff, particularly drivers, who we know are at high risk, sadly, of verbal and physical harassment and deserve to be protected too.

I spend quite a lot of my time in this House talking about online violence against women and girls, but the rules we have talked about there should apply in the physical world as well. One of those requirements is that we should collect data to know exactly the scale of the problem. Without the necessary data, there is, as we know, a risk of under-reporting. Bus companies and the Department for Transport would then be at great risk of saying that there is not a problem, although we all know it exists, particularly those who use buses regularly. I hope that the Minister will accept this straightforward and simple amendment about encouraging the collection of data.

Finally, I am reminded of the Question I asked the Minister in this House on 24 February about violence against women and girls on trains. He gave a typically generous and fulsome Answer in which he agreed that this was both an issue and something the Government wanted to take very seriously. He talked about regular meetings between Department for Transport Ministers and Home Office Ministers, all to fulfil the Government’s stated ambition of cutting violence against women and girls. While the House has the opportunity to take this measure and call for data to be collected, I hope the Minister and the Government will be able to accept this amendment.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I want to speak to Amendment 60, which would introduce a £2 bus fare cap, subject to periodic review. The Government’s official evaluation of the first 10 months of the £2 cap showed a 5% increase in bus patronage outside London, out of a 13% total increase in the period. However, their own survey data implies a stronger effect: some 40% of people said they took more bus journeys when the cap was in place, and 90% of those taking more bus journeys said it was because of the fare cap. In Transport Focus’s research, 80% said it helped with the cost of living and 40% said their bus journeys were replacing those they would have made by car, so awareness of the policy and support for it are high.

The increase in the bus fare cap from £2 to £3 has created real barriers for passengers, particularly those on low incomes who rely on buses to go about their everyday lives. Do not just take my word for it; the DfT’s own bus fare statistics, published just last week, show a 4.1% rise in the cost of bus fares outside London between December 2023 and December 2024. This legislation is about improving bus services and enabling local authorities to have the choice about how local services are provided, but unless there are affordable bus fares, there is a huge hole in this plan.

This amendment would allow for a £2 bus fare cap scheme to be set up and priority access to funds for those authorities that opted in to this scheme. Affordable fares, alongside franchising and enhanced partnerships, will truly ensure that our bus services properly serve our local communities. The Official Opposition last week told this House that the Conservative manifesto pledged to keep the £2 bus fare cap. It will be interesting to see this evening whether their words are genuine, but I hope Members across this House will support our amendment.

I want also to add our support for Amendment 57, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Hampton, to implement a Vision Zero programme for buses to improve safety in the sector. I look forward to the response of the Minister to the issues raised in this group.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, I will respond to the contribution from the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon, who made a similar speech—in fact, almost exactly the same speech—in Committee. If you are on the fringes of government or in opposition, it is easy to demand reductions, whether of bus fares or something else. In my experience, the Liberal Democrats have made a virtue of such behaviour over many years.

I recollect that the Liberals were in government, along with the Conservative Party, from 2010 to 2015. Did they introduce a £2 or even a £3 maximum bus fare in those years? No, they did not. In fact, government statistics indicate that, every year between 2010 and 2015, bus fares went up by an average of 3.8%. Under the Conservative and Liberal Administration, bus fares increased in real terms by almost 20% over five years. Of course, the Liberals are not in government anymore, so it is easy for the noble Baroness to sit there and demand reductions from £3 to £2.

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Moved by

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

60: After Clause 30, insert the following new Clause—
“£2 bus fare scheme(1) The Secretary of State must establish a scheme to cap the fare for a single bus journey at £2.(2) Bus operators in England, including private companies, franchisees, and local authorities, may opt into the scheme.(3) Service operators under this scheme may receive preferential consideration for the allocation of financial grants under section 19 of this Act.(4) The Secretary of State may review the terms of the scheme every three years from the day on which this Act is passed and amend it through regulations made by statutory instrument.(5) A statutory instrument under this section may not be made unless a draft has been laid before and approved by a resolution of each House of Parliament.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment requires the Secretary of State to introduce a scheme capping single bus fares at £2, alongside the existing £3 scheme. The scheme will be subject to periodic review.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, I have listened carefully to the Minister’s word and I believe it is essential that the £2 bus fare cap scheme goes hand in hand with the existing cap. Therefore, I wish to test the opinion of the House.