Oral Answers to Questions

Suella Braverman Excerpts

Thursday 19th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) (Lab)]

3. Whether the Government plan to take steps to maintain economic and social rights as part of their negotiations on the UK leaving the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Suella Braverman)]

The White Paper published last week makes it clear that the Government are committed to high levels of social and employment protection and proposes a reciprocal non-regression requirement for domestic labour standards. The paper also proposes a mutual commitment to individual rights, noting that the UK will remain a party to the European convention on human rights after it has left the EU. This is also reflected in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, which maintains existing rights protection as part of EU retained law.

[Mr Sharma]

I thank the Minister very much for her response. In 2009, the Secretary of State said that he did not believe in economic and social rights. How can he guarantee that he will not use Brexit as an excuse to slash protections for minorities and workers?

[Suella Braverman]

The Secretary of State is experienced and has a proven track record not only as a Justice Minister but as a lawyer, and any attempt to undermine his credentials and commitment to the rule of law, civil liberties and now delivering a successful Brexit is fundamentally misguided. The Government have made it clear—not just in the White Paper, but on numerous occasions during the passage of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act—that leaving the EU does not mean a diminution of human rights.

[Mr Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State referred earlier to the mooted common rulebook as very narrow, but when we look at what is necessary for free circulation, it is actually extremely wide. I am concerned that the parliamentary lock in the White Paper is actually unworkable, because there will be the sword of Damocles of a hard border in Ireland should we derogate from any of it. Does my hon. Friend remember that decades of Conservative manifestos have committed to retaining or increasing our autonomy over such regulations?

[Suella Braverman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. I know what an indefatigable campaigner he is for the UK leaving the European Union, and his expertise on this issue is well known. At the end of the day, the common rulebook is going to be subject to a parliamentary lock, and it also reflects rules on goods that have not changed for many decades.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

The Minister rightly points out that the White Paper proposes non-regression clauses on environment regulations and on social and employment protections. In 2016, however, the Secretary of State wrote in The Times that Brexit was an opportunity to

“ditch”

the

“100 most burdensome EU regulations”.

He took exception to the agency workers regulation, for example, on the grounds that it

“gives agency workers the right to the same basic employment and working conditions as full-time staff”.

Does the Minister agree with the White Paper or with her Secretary of State?

[Suella Braverman]

The Government have been clear in the White Paper that our commitment to rights protection is unequivocal and that how those rules are applied is ultimately a decision for Parliament. May I remind the hon. Gentleman that rights do not emanate from the EU? We have our own rich and proud tradition of civil liberties, such as the Race Relations Act 1965 or the Equal Pay Act 1970, and we acceded to those critical pieces of legislation before our accession to the European Economic Community.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

I understand my hon. Friend’s position on guaranteeing UK rights—indeed, I respect her position, which is that UK rights need no foreign courts to guarantee them. Perhaps she can help me understand how she views the rights of others on our continent. The great achievement of many of our people in the past 50 years has been the extension of those rights, yet today I see lists of Jews being suggested in Vienna, and I hear about the erosion of the rule of law in other parts of eastern Europe. What will be the Government’s position on making sure that those human rights still exist?

[Suella Braverman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. As I said, we have a long and proud tradition, which predates our membership of the EU, to protecting civil liberties, upholding human rights and enhancing the position of the individual, whether through the rule of law or our commitment to the ECHR. Brexit will not change that.

[Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

4. What recent progress he has made on negotiations with the EU on a withdrawal agreement.

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[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

5. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport on negotiating a deal to support international broadcasting businesses maintaining their UK base after the UK leaves the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Suella Braverman)]

The Department is working closely with the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport to understand the complexities of the issue relating to broadcasting. Together we are listening to the international broadcasting sector to understand its needs and concerns. I was very pleased to address the Creative Industries Federation in March.

[Christine Jardine]

Is the Minister aware that the Commercial Broadcasters Association has expressed its concern about the lack of clarity in the Government’s proposals post Brexit, particularly for international TV channels based in the UK, which are currently worth more than £1 billion to the economy and provide one in five jobs in the broadcasting sector? At the moment, UK-based international TV channels have a licence for the rest of the EU, and the Commercial Broadcasters Association is concerned that it is not clear whether that will continue. We are already seeing international broadcasters moving, so what steps are the Government taking?

[Suella Braverman]

The Prime Minister’s Mansion House speech committed to exploring creative options, with an open mind, to replace the country of origin principle enshrined in the audiovisual media services directive. The UK’s position represents the best credible proposal for the future relationship. It reflects the EU’s aim, as stated in Council guidelines, of allowing market access to provide services under host state rules.

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

rose—

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[Mr Speaker]

Very creative.

[Suella Braverman]

I know how experienced the hon. Lady is in the arts sector. The White Paper proposes new arrangements for services and for the creative and digital sectors, recognising that the UK and the EU will not have the current levels of access to each other’s markets. The EU and the UK included broadcasting in the joint list of topics for discussion in the future framework, which reflects our shared understanding of the importance of the sector as a whole. Obviously, it is the responsible duty of the Government to prepare for all outcomes.

[Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab)]

6. What steps he is taking to ensure that there is no change to rights, standards and protections derived from the EU after the UK leaves the EU.

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[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on negotiations with the EU on fishing policy for when the UK leaves the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Suella Braverman)]

We work closely with Ministers and officials from all Departments, including DEFRA, to further our preparations for exit from, and a new partnership with, the EU. This includes discussions on the recently published future framework White Paper and the fisheries White Paper.

[Peter Aldous]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. Can she confirm that her Department shares the commitment of the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to the UK having full control of our territorial waters when we leave the EU, with trade in fish and fish products being a completely separate matter, and that there will be no trade deals linked to access to our fisheries?

[Suella Braverman]

The Government are clear that upon our exit from the European Union the UK will be an independent coastal nation free to set our own rules including on access to our waters and fisheries policies, and we seek to agree a process for future annual negotiations with the EU on access and fishing opportunities. I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend that we will be taking back control of this significant sector of our economy.

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

With our leaving the EU next year, access to European funds that have done a great deal for fishing communities around coastal areas will be lost. Will the Government themselves replace those funds in the same way that they propose to deal with funding for farmers?

[Suella Braverman]

I was delighted to visit the hon. Lady’s Grimsby constituency earlier this year and I know how energetic she is as a representative of her constituents. The fundamental principle, as set out in the fisheries White Paper and the future framework, is that we—this Parliament—will be in control of how we distribute funding, how we set the rules and how we empower our fishing communities around the country.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

Notwithstanding what the Minister has said and what her colleagues have said on previous occasions, she will be aware that in fishing communities there are still concerns that the Government will use fishing in some way and make further concessions. Can she give an absolute guarantee that there will be no further concessions on fisheries?

[Suella Braverman]

Again, I was very happy to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency as part of my travels as a Minister. Like him, I represent a coastal constituency, where we know that our fishermen work very hard to earn their livings. The Government have been absolutely clear that once we leave the EU and no longer abide by the common fisheries policy, we will be an independent coastal state managing our fisheries and controlling access to our own waters. I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

10. What steps he is taking to ensure that the Government engage with the international business community during negotiations on the UK leaving the EU.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Suella Braverman)]

The Government have regular and productive dialogue with the international business community, and the DExEU ministerial team has visited 18 EU member states this year alone, meeting businesses to understand their priorities and explain how our proposals enable businesses to thrive. Tomorrow, the Secretary of State and the ministerial team will be meeting business leaders from a number of countries at Chevening House, which is a dedicated opportunity to hear from them.

[Jeremy Lefroy]

One issue that the business community has raised is continuing access to the working and investment capital currently supplied through the European Investment Bank. What arrangements are the Government making to ensure that continued flow of capital to our businesses?

[Suella Braverman]

My hon. Friend is right to point out that investment is crucial for the economic future of our nation and of the wealth creators in our country. The UK believes it may be mutually beneficial to maintain some form of ongoing relationship with the European Investment Bank, and we are exploring those options now.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

What assessment have the Government made of the costs to international and domestic business of preparing, amidst the chaos of this Government, for all the possible outcomes of new relationships with the EU?

[Suella Braverman]

As has been set out this morning on many occasions, the Government are carrying out extensive preparations for all outcomes. No deal is not our objective, but we are preparing for that scenario, as is responsible and expected. Our future framework White Paper, however, sets out how we see our economic relationship working with the EU so that UK and EU businesses can continue to trade fruitfully as we leave the EU.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

Following on from that question, when will the Minister’s Department properly publish an impact assessment for all sectors on the impact of a no deal scenario, in contrast to the shambles that we saw at the end of last year?

[Suella Braverman]

The Government have been clear that we will provide the appropriate analysis at the time that a deal is presented to Parliament. Many predictions of impacts and outcomes were made at the time of the referendum, but let us look at the facts. Manufacturing is at a record high, exports are rising faster than imports, and unemployment is at its lowest in 40 years. Let us base our predictions on the facts, not on scaremongering.

[Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP)]

12. What discussions his Department has had with the devolved Administrations on the content of the White Paper on the future relationship between the UK and the EU, published on 12 July 2018.

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[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

T7. The repeated commitment from this Government that we are indeed leaving the common fisheries policy is welcomed by the fishing communities of Banff and Buchan and around the United Kingdom. Concerns remain, however, that the position of the European Fisheries Alliance, among others in Europe, is to maintain as much of the status quo as possible. Will the Minister commit to meeting me and representatives of the Scottish fishing industry to discuss how leaving the CFP can lead to this vital industry not just surviving but thriving and growing post Brexit?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union (Suella Braverman)]

I assure my hon. Friend that I share his and the Environment Secretary’s view that, once we leave the EU, we will be able to control access to our waters by non-UK registered vessels, which will be a matter for negotiation. Access to markets for fish products will be agreed as part of our future economic partnership, just as with other goods and food products.

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

T3. I understand that the Secretary of State, as a member of the campaign committee of Vote Leave—the campaign committee met weekly, according to Vote Leave’s website, to agree the leave campaign’s strategy—may not want to comment on this week’s findings of the Electoral Commission until he has spoken to the police, who are investigating those findings, so I ask him this hypothetical question instead. In a situation in which an organisation has been found to have lied about its spending and to have broken UK law in order to secure a narrow referendum victory, what does he believe the consequences should be?

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[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

On citizens’ rights, UK citizens in some EU countries may have to renounce their British citizenship to stay living in those countries. It is unclear whether any of the 1.2 million in the EU will be able to move from living in one country to living in another without making further applications. At the same time, the EU is very reluctant to secure reciprocal voting rights. It is good that our approach is generous, but is my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State concerned about the lack of reciprocity in some areas of citizens’ rights? Will he raise the issue with Michel Barnier later today?

[Suella Braverman]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight this issue. The Home Secretary has issued a statement that sets out his disappointment that the EU has not necessarily put into plan the reciprocal arrangements that it agreed to for EU citizens. For our part, we have made it clear that we have agreed the sections of the withdrawal agreement that provide for an exhaustive and comprehensive series of protections for EU citizens. That is on a reciprocal basis and we expect the EU to respond in kind.

[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

This week, the Office for Budget Responsibility followed the Institute for Fiscal Studies in pointing out that there is no such thing as a Brexit dividend. Given that the OBR was set up to provide expert advice to the Government, may we have an assurance that there will be no more talk from Ministers of this fantasy Brexit dividend?