Justice and Security Bill [Lords]

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 7th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I feel sure that the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter) will match the exemplary brevity of the Minister without Portfolio, and it is important that he should do so, because at least five or six right hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye and we must conclude the debate by 5 o’clock.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 14th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Maria Miller)]

I am sure that you will not find it inappropriate for me to wish you, Mr Speaker, a happy Valentine’s day, although I am sure that I am not the first person to have done so this morning.

The Government are clear about our vision to deliver legacy over the next 10 years, and we have already made substantial progress across the five core areas: sport and healthy living, economic, community, regeneration of east London and the Paralympics.

[Mr Speaker]

I wish the same to the Secretary of State.

[Chris White]

You took the words right out of my mouth, Mr Speaker.

For sport in our country, 2012 was a fantastic year, but it is vital that we follow it up over the next few years, especially with the young people we have the greatest potential to influence. In my constituency, a charity called Kids Run Free organises events to get young people passionate about exercise and sets up races that are available to school and pre-school age groups. The races have spread across the west midlands and the charity is eager to do more. What support are the Government giving to innovative charities such as Kids Run Free, and how can we ensure that they get the resources they need so that we can build a long-lasting Olympic legacy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Hugh Robertson]

I am not entirely sure what that question had to do with advancing the role of sport. The answer on FOBTs, which emerged in the middle of the question, is that they are subject to the triennial review of stakes and prizes, which has just been launched. The Responsible Gambling Trust is just launching the largest ever consultation into the effect of FOBTs. If, as I suspect, it shows that there is a problem that needs to be addressed, it will be addressed.

[Mr Speaker]

The Minister rightly implies that there was an elastic interpretation of what constitutes sport. We will leave it at that for the time being.

[Hugh Robertson]

First, the Opposition spokesman should not conflate sport legacy with a school sport policy. He is well aware that the sport legacy is going extraordinarily well. He tends never to mention that 1.75 million people are now playing sport who were not playing sport at the time of the bid. There is also a range of international events, and around the globe 14 million extra children have been touched by sport.

If the hon. Gentleman is going to criticise sport provision on the back of the Ofsted report, he should wake up to the fact that it covers 2008 to 2012—throughout the period in which the school sport partnerships were operating. If he wishes to see them reintroduced, he has to explain to the House and others how they would be funded, about which we have heard not a jot from the Opposition since the election.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Graham Allen. Not here.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

7. What steps her Department is taking to encourage the development of non-league football clubs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise to colleagues, but as usual demand has exceeded supply.

The Minister for Women and Equalities was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are short of time, but I want to accommodate the question on religious belief.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

8. What her plans are for equalities on the grounds of religious belief.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must move on.

Police Integrity

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

I, too, welcome this statement, which implements not only the recent Home Affairs Committee report, but the Liberal Democrat policy motion on empowering the IPCC, which was passed last year. I especially welcome the commitment that the IPCC will cover private providers. As Nick Hardwick, the former chair of the IPCC, said,

“if it looks like a police officer, talks like a police officer, walks like a police officer, the IPCC should investigate it.”

Will the Home Secretary confirm that she has spoken to Dame Anne Owers and the IPCC about resources, and that it be well-resourced enough to deal with serious cases and also look at private contractors?

[Mr Speaker]

I hope the hon. Gentleman feels that in that very full question he has covered all elements of the relevant Liberal Democrat motion and brought it to the full attention of the House, just in case we had not previously noticed.

[Mrs May]

In other circumstances, I might say that I was now worried, Mr Speaker, but we are in coalition, so I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his remarks. It is important that private companies working for the police are included, but that will require changes to legislation for which parliamentary time would have to be made available. I am sorry, but with all the banter I have forgotten the second point.

Points of Order

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I rarely raise points of order, but this one is about a reply I received to a question I put to the Home Secretary, which was answered by the Minister for Immigration. I tabled a question asking how many times the Home Secretary has visited Romania and Bulgaria, and how many meetings she has had with Romanian and Bulgarian Ministers on the subject of immigration—a fairly standard question. Over the past 26 years, I have tabled questions to Ministers asking about their visits to other countries and have always received a factual reply. On this occasion, however, I received a reply stating that Home Office Ministers have meetings with a number of partners, but ending with these words:

“As was the case with previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s practice to provide details of all such meetings.”—[Official Report, 5 February 2013; Vol. 558, c. 123W.]

I have served in government and since receiving that answer I have talked with others who have served, and none has said that they refused to disclose a meeting between a Minister in this country and a Minister in a foreign country. I have friends in the Romanian and Bulgarian Parliaments and I can ask them to table questions asking how many times the Home Secretary has visited, but this is the bread and butter of the work of Members of Parliament.

There is a question about whether Parliament has been misled, even inadvertently, by the answer given. I like the Minister for Immigration and I am sure that he would not have done that deliberately, but we should be able to ask Ministers how many times they have been to foreign countries and about the overall nature of discussions. We do not want to know what the Home Secretary did in Bucharest, whom she met or what she discussed; we just want to know how many times she has visited Romania and Bulgaria. That is a simple question to answer and it is one that every other Government Department is able to deal with. Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on whether the answer is in order, or whether this is a new practice.

[Mr Speaker]

The response the right hon. Gentleman received has clearly provoked his curiosity and, in a notably mild-mannered Member of the House, a degree of consternation. I will happily offer a statement on the matter, but as the Home Secretary has courteously remained in the Chamber during the point of order relating to her Department, she is very welcome to offer a remark, if she so wishes.

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

She does not wish to do so. In that case, I will say to the right hon. Gentleman that the content of ministerial answers, notwithstanding the practice in previous Parliaments, is not a matter for the Chair. If he is dissatisfied with the answer he has received, or what he regards as the lack of an answer, he may wish to raise the matter with the Procedure Committee.

I note in passing that, on the back of his nearly 26 consecutive years of service in the House, the right hon. Gentleman is as canny as most in the deployment of opportunities open to Members to eke out of Government information that is important to him. Moreover, as Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, he may be aware of other means by which Ministers may be held to account, and is perhaps in a position himself to apply those means. We will leave it there for now.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure the Deputy Prime Minister did not intend to mislead the House when he incorrectly claimed, in response to my question at Deputy Prime Minister’s questions this morning regarding the local government settlement to Newcastle city council, that it was shutting all arts venues in Newcastle. That is blatantly not true. Owing to the very difficult local funding settlement, the council has proposed a variety of cuts to grants awarded to arts organisations, which represent roughly 15% of the funding stream, which is no doubt a difficult decision, but it is far from shutting all arts venues in the city. Given the alarm that such a statement could raise among my constituents in Newcastle upon Tyne, could you advise me on how best I may go about correcting the record in regard to the Deputy Prime Minister’s statement?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her point of order. I can say with confidence that the Deputy Prime Minister would not deliberately mislead the House, for that would be a serious transgression and I know that he would not commit it. Whether he has done so is not altogether obvious to me, but the Deputy Prime Minister will have heard, or if he has not done so, will very soon come to hear of the content of the hon. Lady’s point of order, and if in the light of it he judges that the record needs to be corrected, it is open to him to do so. On top of that, she has put her concerns on the record and it is open to her, if she judges it necessary, to pursue the matter with the right hon. Gentleman in correspondence and in other ways. That is the best guidance I can give her for now.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it not the case that by asserting that Newcastle is closing all its arts venues, the Deputy Prime Minister is insulting the people of Newcastle and our long tradition of supporting the arts even in the worst of times and under the worst of Governments? Would it not therefore be in order for the Deputy Prime Minister to offer an apology to the people of Newcastle?

[Mr Speaker]

The question whether the people of Newcastle, whom we are not in a position now to consult, feel that they have been insulted or affronted is a matter for the people of Newcastle. In answer to the hon. Lady’s inquiry whether it would be in order for the Deputy Prime Minister to apologise, the answer is that it would be if he judged it appropriate to do so, but it is not for me to decree that he should. I hope that is helpful. All points of order on the matter have now been exhausted.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I say to my hon. Friend that the Government support the use of CCTV and that it can be a very important way of bringing criminals to justice. He may wish to speak to his police and crime commissioner, who will hold a new community safety budget, part of which they may wish to apply to support CCTV projects.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) gesticulating the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) in the direction of the Opposition Benches is a triumph, surely, of optimism over reality.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

Medway council is being developed as a regional CCTV hub, helping prevent crime and saving other councils money. What is the Minister’s policy on encouraging the development of CCTV hubs?

Ibrahim Magag

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. To maximise the number of participants in these exchanges, I appeal to right hon. and hon. Members to ask single short supplementary questions and, of course, to the Home Secretary to provide us with her characteristically pithy replies.

[Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con)]

Since the previous Government introduced the Human Rights Act 1998, it has been more difficult, has it not, to strike the right balance between the rights of terrorists and the proportionate protection of society from the threat they present? Should we not be thinking about the long- term future of the Human Rights Act, notwithstanding the support it has from Opposition Members?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs May]

Perhaps I can answer the question in this way. There are certain facts in relation to an individual that are not publicly known because they are subject to an anonymity order, and there are various legal issues relating to that. If I may go away and check those issues, and if it is possible to make a public reference in the House in relation to the passport issue, I will place a letter in the Library of the House.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Home Secretary and colleagues for their co-operation.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 7th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend correctly points out that it was his constituency that I visited in December. I am not going to prejudge the outcome of the work being done by MAC. The whole point is that it is doing some evidence-based work to inform the Government’s decision. It will be looking at whether a successor scheme needs to come into force to ensure that the sector has access to adequate labour when Romanians and Bulgarians have alternative choices after the end of this year.

[Mr Speaker]

For the benefit of any uninitiated members of the public, those referring to SAWS are talking about the seasonal agricultural workers scheme, and the MAC of course is the Migration Advisory Committee. I am sure that 57 million people know that perfectly well, but it is as well to remind them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am always keen to accommodate colleagues, but time is against us and we must move on.

Points of Order

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 3rd December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Is it on the same theme?

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Speaker]

We shall come to it, therefore. I am saving the right hon. and learned Member up. He is worth waiting for, I am sure.

Let me respond first to the point of order of the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis). Ministers and other Members must take responsibility for their own words. I have not received any requests from the Home Secretary to come to the House. The right hon. Lady is reported as having expressed herself in strong terms, as the right hon. Gentleman alluded, and others, notably including the right hon. Gentleman, may disagree with her analysis. The two Houses agreed that a Joint Committee would be an appropriate way of examining the Government’s proposals in detail, but that does not put the proposals beyond comment by others. I am sure that, as with all Joint and Select Committees, this Joint Committee’s report will be founded on a careful and sober weighing of the evidence. I hope that is helpful to the right hon. Gentleman and the House.

[Sir Menzies Campbell]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you received any requests from the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to make a statement about the nature of diplomatic relations between the United Kingdom and Israel? Following last week’s events in New York at the United Nations, a number of actions have been taken and/or promised that are admittedly retaliatory in purpose. Would it not be right for the House to be brought up to date as soon as possible about the attitude of Her Majesty’s Government towards those actions and any future conduct which may be of the same nature?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. May I support the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) in what he has said? Last week, the Foreign Secretary came to this House to make a statement about a proposed action by Palestinians, as was right and proper. It is therefore beyond me that when the state of Israel is breaking international law in three ways the Foreign Secretary has not regarded it as necessary to come here today. When will we have a statement from him?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) and to the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) for raising this point. With respect to the latter part of the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s point of order, I refer to his words directly: it is right that the House should be kept up to date on this matter. There will be precisely such an opportunity at Foreign and Commonwealth Office questions tomorrow. I am not psychic, but you don’t have to look into the crystal ball when you can read the book; judging from the historical evidence of FCO questions, I just have a hunch that the right hon. and learned Gentleman and the right hon. Gentleman will be in their places, and there is surely a reasonable chance that their eyes might catch mine. I hope that that is helpful.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On 2 August, I wrote to the Home Office on behalf of my constituent Vanessa Watson with regard to a dangerous dogs issue, yet despite chasing that Department on many occasions, I have yet to receive a substantive response. May I seek the advice of the Chair as to what I should do next?

[Mr Speaker]

The short answer is: first, timely answers are not just desirable, but essential; secondly, the Home Secretary is on the Bench and is almost thirsting to rise from her seat—she can if she wishes; thirdly, I just point out to the hon. Gentleman that the Leader of the House is in his place and I know he will want to chase an early reply. If the Home Secretary wishes to come to the Dispatch Box, she may do so.

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to my hon. Friend for the delay in responding to his particular question. I will ensure that that matter is chased up and he receives a more timely reply.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Home Secretary and I hope that is regarded as helpful. I hope there will not be many more points of order, as I do not want other people to be unduly delayed. However, I will take a last point of order from Mr Jim Dowd.

[Jim Dowd (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am particularly obliged to you for taking this point of order, which relates to the next, and main, business of the day. You will be aware that one of the main categories in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests is that of media earnings, which are many and diverse, and affect very many Members of this House. First, may I ask you to decide whether everybody who has an interest in that category should declare it in the forthcoming debate? Secondly, rather than just giving the completely uninformative, “I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests,” should Members say what it is they are pointing to?

[Mr Speaker]

What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is that each hon. and right hon. Member is responsible for his or her own declaration of interest. On the further point of substance, the declaration of interest should be sufficient to enable the House to recognise the nature of the interest. I hope that is helpful. I think that, if I may say so, what I have said is, or at any rate should be, self-explanatory to hon. and right hon. Members.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 19th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that participation in future PCC elections will improve, as excellent candidates such as Sir Clive Loader in Leicestershire will be able to point to a record of achievement? Does he agree, too, that one method of increasing voter participation that should not be encouraged, and should be resisted at all costs, is giving prisoners the vote in these or any other elections?

[Mr Speaker]

I remind the Minister that we are discussing reducing bureaucracy in policing.

[Damian Green]

I will happily obey you in this instance, Mr Speaker, as I always do.

Sir Clive Loader will make an excellent PCC, and he will be keen to reduce bureaucracy. It is precisely on their record of releasing the energies of the police to do what we want them to do and serve on the front line that PCCs will be judged when the elections come round again. I am sure that that will engage the public more.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

In Kent the new PCC was the outgoing chair of the police authority. When she was elected, she made it clear that she would have no truck with privatisation. It should be said that she resoundingly beat the Tory candidate by nearly 2:1. Is that not an indictment of the Government’s policy on PCCs, and is it not an example showing that the existing chair was much preferred—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman’s question is rather long and it is only tangentially related to the matter on the Order Paper. I have indulged—[Interruption.] Order. I have indulged him adequately.

[Damian Green]

I am not entirely sure that the hon. Gentleman had got to a point yet. It will clearly be in PCCs’ own interest to look at the best way of spending most efficiently the money that they control so that police are visible on the front line and are able to cut crime. In the end PCCs have been elected, they are responsible for their own actions and what they say, and the electorate will judge them after a few years. I urge all PCCs to take a sensible and pragmatic view about the Police ICT Company and collaboration.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

One of the things that the UK Border Agency is attempting to do is make sure that the system is more sensitive to those who have suffered sexual violence and have been trafficked. It has recently published some information about how it goes about doing that through training its front-line officers and its caseworkers. I take that matter very seriously, and will ensure that the UK Border Agency pays great attention to it. If the hon. Lady has any particular concerns about specific cases, I am of course happy to discuss them with her at any time.

[Mr Speaker]

Last but not least, I call Andrea Leadsom.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have been complaining to a national housing association for the past two years on behalf of a small group of constituents who are suffering at the hands of a small group of social tenants things such as homophobic attacks, domestic violence on the street and drug dealing in the streets. The housing association has done nothing about it. What more can we do to force housing associations to take their responsibilities more seriously and allow other people to live their lives quietly?

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I am sorry to disappoint colleagues, but, as they know, in Home Office questions, demand invariably exceeds supply. We must now move on.

Scrap Metal Dealers Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Friday 9th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment (a) to Government new clause 2, in subsection (3), after ‘record’, insert ‘and verify’.

New clause 4—Sale of scrap metal—

‘(1) No person shall sell or attempt to sell scrap metal other than to a scrap metal dealer licensed under the provisions of this Act.

(2) No person aged under 21 shall sell or attempt to sell scrap metal.

(3) A person who sells or attempts to sell scrap metal in breach of subsection 1 or 2 above is guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale.’.

New clause 6—Metal marked with smart water—

‘(1) A scrap metal dealer must not purchase scrap metal from a person without first checking that the metal has not been marked with smart water.

(2) If a scrap metal dealer purchases scrap metal in breach of subsection (1) he shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.’.

Amendment 66, page 5, line 39, in clause 10, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 67, page 6, line 3, leave out ‘3’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 98, page 6, line 10, in clause 11, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 71, page 6, line 25, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 72, page 6, line 25, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘3’.

Government amendment 18, page 6, line 26, in clause 12, divide Clause 12 into two clauses, the first [Records of dealings: receipt of metal] to consist of subsections (1) to (5) and the second [Records: supplementary] to consist of subsections (6) to (11).

Government amendment 19, page 6, line 30, leave out ‘type and weight’ and insert

‘type (or types if mixed), form, condition, weight and any marks identifying previous owners or other distinguishing features’.

Amendment 87, page 6, line 38, at end insert—

‘(f) whether the metal has been tested for smart water and the result of that test’.

Government amendment 20, page 6, line 42, leave out subsections (4) and (5) and insert—

‘(4) If the dealer pays for the metal by cheque, the dealer must keep a copy of the cheque.

(5) If the dealer pays for the metal by electronic transfer—

(a) the dealer must keep the receipt identifying the transfer, or

(b) if no receipt identifying the transfer was obtained, the dealer must record particulars identifying the transfer.’.

Amendment 73, page 7, line 7, leave out subsection (6).

Government amendment 21, page 7, line 7, after ‘subsections (2) and (5)’, insert

‘and section [Records of dealings: disposal of metal](3) and (4)’.

Government amendment 22, page 7, line 13, after ‘subsections (2) to (5)’, insert

‘and section [Records of dealings: disposal of metal](3) and (4)’.

Amendment 74, page 7, line 13, leave out ‘3 years’ and insert ‘1 year’.

Government amendment 23, page 7, line 14, at end insert

‘or (as the case may be) disposed of.’.

Government amendment 24, page 7, line 15, after ‘under’, insert

‘section [Records of dealings: receipt of metal], section [Records of dealings: disposal of metal] or’.

Government amendment 25, page 7, line 18, after ‘at’, insert

‘or (as the case may be) despatched from’.

Amendment 76, page 7, line 27, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘1’.

Amendment 77, page 7, line 27, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘3’.

Government amendment 26, page 8, line 24, clause 13, leave out ‘section 12’ and insert

‘section [Records of dealings: receipt of metal] or [Records of dealings: disposal of metal]’.

Amendment 101, page 10, line 10, in clause 18, leave out from ‘(a)’ to ‘whether’ in line 11 and insert

‘collects, purchases or sells discarded metal suitable for reprocessing for reward’.

Amendment 132, page 10, line 13, leave out paragraph (b).

Amendment 133, page 10, line 19, leave out subsection (4).

Amendment 30, page 10, line 19, leave out ‘carries on business’ and insert ‘engages in activity’.

Amendment 134, page 10, line 32, leave out ‘includes and insert ‘is’.

Amendment 102, page 10, line 33, leave out ‘old’ and insert ‘used’.

Amendment 135, page 10, line 33, after ‘old’, insert ‘used’.

Amendment 103, page 10, line 36, at end insert—

‘(c) any new product article or assembly which is made from or contains metal and is not being used for the purpose for which it was intended when originally purchased.’.

Amendment 136, page 10, line 36, at end insert—

‘(c) items made from or containing metal which are of sentimental or heritage value,

(d) war memorials that are made from or contain metal,

(e) property made from or containing metal belonging to any place of worship, and

(f) property made from or containing metal belonging to or used for the purposes of rail travel.’.

Amendment 104, page 10, line 38, leave out paragraph (a).

Amendment 138, page 10, line 39, at end insert—

‘(c) platinum, iridium, osmium, palladium and ruthenium, and’

Amendment 105, page 10, line 42, leave out subsection (8).

[Mr Browne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the excellent timing with which you brought our debate on the previous group of amendments to a conclusion and for allowing me to introduce this second group of amendments.

This group relates to the trading in scrap metal. Within this grouping, the Government wish to create one new clause and make seven amendments to the Bill. Unfortunately, like the previous grouping, there are a significant number of other amendments which we fear may dilute the effectiveness of the Bill, although hon. Members are entirely within their rights to table them. It is therefore not our intention to accept those amendments. I do not propose to address each of them separately, though I have sought, and will continue to do so, to clarify points where that may help the House.

On the Government amendments, clause 12 currently requires that scrap metal dealers record all metal that is received in the course of their business, and includes a criminal offence of failure to fulfil the requirement of the clause. Following discussion with the police, they have suggested continuing the requirement in the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 to record both the metal being received in the course of their business and the metal being dispatched. We have considered that suggestion and believe that there are merits to justify its inclusion, allowing law enforcement officers and local authorities to trace metals through the scrap metal sector.

New clause 2 outlines that requirement, defining the meaning of disposed of metal and stipulating information that needs to be recorded by scrap metal dealers, both in respect of mobile collectors and those who hold a site licence. As I have said, although the amendment creates a new requirement in the Bill on the scrap metal dealer, recording metals that are dispatched is not a new burden on the industry—an important point—as that provision already exists in the 1964 Act, which currently applies. It should be noted that the proposed recording requirement for collectors appears slightly less onerous than that for site licence holders.

We considered carefully what information should be recorded to bring value to the records that are kept. Collectors should not process metals; they collect metals and then sell them to scrap metal dealers who operate a site to process them. Therefore, the metal that a collector receives and records must be the metal that they dispatch. It is for that reason that the regulations differ slightly for them and are slightly less onerous. We did not therefore consider it necessary to require collectors to double-record the metal; rather we are simply requiring them to record to whom the metal was sold and when.

I do not believe that the amendment to new clause 2 is necessary. All records that a scrap metal dealer is required to retain as part of this new scrap metal regime should be accurate. Amendment (a) to new clause 2 requires that information relating to disposed of metals be verified, which, aside from the person’s name and address, is an almost impossible task and one that makes the amendment unworkable.

--- Later in debate ---

[Philip Davies]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 114, in clause 15, page 9, line 8, leave out ‘5 years’ and insert ‘1 year’.

Amendment 115, page 9, line 8, leave out ‘5 years’ and insert ‘2 years’.

Amendment 116, page 9, line 8, leave out ‘5 years’ and insert ‘3 years’.

Amendment 117, page 9, line 8, leave out ‘5 years’ and insert ‘4 years’.

Amendment 118, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(c) publish the crime figures associated with scrap metal theft for the whole of the period of the review.’.

Amendment 119, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(d) publish the crime figures associated with metal theft generally for the whole of the period of the review.’.

Amendment 120, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(e) publish comparative figures for 1(c) and 1(d) for the preceding equivalent period to the review to show trends in metal crime.’.

Amendment 121, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(f) publish figures showing the number of convictions for each new offence created in the Bill.’.

Amendment 122, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(g) publish a study comparing the use of all legislation in existence prior to the introduction of this Act to this Act and the role that has played in tackling metal theft.’.

Amendment 123, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(h) publish an assessment of the effect that prohibiting scrap metal dealers from using cash has had on business.’.

Amendment 124, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(i) publish a study of the cost to all scrap metal businesses over the period of the review of the new legislation.’.

Amendment 126, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(k) publish a comparison of convictions under the Scrap Metal Dealers Act 1964 compared to the convictions for the same offences under this Act for a period of the same length as the term of the review.’.

Amendment 127, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(l) assess the prevalence of the export of stolen scrap metal to Scotland in the whole of the period of the review.’.

Amendment 128, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(m) assess the prevalence of the export of stolen scrap metal to Europe in the whole of the period of the review.’.

Amendment 129, page 9, line 11, at end insert—

‘(n) assess the prevalence of the export of stolen scrap metal through UK ports to other countries exlcuding Scotland and Europe in the whole of the period of the review.’.

Amendment 99, in clause 17, page 9, line 37, leave out subsection (2).

Amendment 100, page 9, line 40, leave out ‘under section 11(2) or 18(8)’ and insert

‘or regulations under this Act’.

Amendment 131, page 10, line 1, leave out subsection (4).

Amendment 85, in clause 20, page 11, line 41, leave out from ‘Act’ to end of line 42 and insert

‘shall come into force two months after Royal Assent’.

Amendment 86, page 12, line 1, leave out subsection (3).

[Philip Davies]

I hope to strike more oil with this group of amendments than I have managed thus far. I am rather disappointed that the Minister’s approach so far has been, “This is my script. I won’t listen to the debate, I will just stick to my script come what may.” My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) and I will have another go at persuading him that the Bill could be improved.