Oral Answers to Questions

Pat McFadden Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Michelle Welsh (Sherwood Forest) (Lab)]

9. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to implement the Government’s plan for change.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)]

Since we launched the plan for change last month, we have published the elective reform plan to get NHS waiting lists down and the AI opportunities plan so that the UK is a great home for AI investment and the Government make the most of this technology. The aim of the plan for change is to increase living standards, cut NHS waiting lists, boost energy security, give children the best start in life, make our streets safer, and build the houses that the country needs for the future. Just today, we have announced measures to stop repeated judicial review attempts from holding up major investment projects that are in the national interest.

[Warinder Juss]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer. Does he agree that the Government’s plan for change provides my constituents in Wolverhampton West with clear, measurable metrics against which they can hold the Government to account? This will help to restore faith in politics and politicians, and enable my constituents to see shorter hospital waiting lists, better living standards, safer streets, better and more housing and a better start for our children in school.

[Pat McFadden]

I thank my hon. Friend and parliamentary neighbour for his question. I know his constituents well in Wolverhampton and he is right that a higher standard of living, lower NHS waiting lists, more housing and children getting a better start in life will be good for his constituents in Wolverhampton and good for constituents right around the country.

[Michelle Welsh]

Vibrant town centres are so important for the health of our local economies. Under the Conservatives, shop lifting was allowed to spiral out of control and we are still dealing with the consequences. Not too long ago, in Hucknall, a shopworker was brutally attacked. When I speak to local residents and businesses across Sherwood Forest, they tell me that this kind of antisocial behaviour has meant that they do not want to go out into town at night. Can the Minister confirm that the measures announced in the plan for change will deliver safer streets and be a boost to local economies?

[Pat McFadden]

I am very sorry to hear about the distressing attack on the shopworker in my hon. Friend’s constituency. Everyone should be free to go to work without the fear of being attacked while doing their job. I am pleased to say that, under this Government, assaulting a shopworker will be made a separate criminal offence. My hon. Friend is right to say that, on top of that, we need to do more to ensure that our town centres are safe. Restoring community policing with the additional police officers and police community support officers that we plan will enable all our constituents to visit their town centres and go about their business with peace and confidence.

[Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con)]

I welcome the announcement on the judicial review proposals. The Government’s plan for change is an important endeavour, which will need not just Cabinet colleagues but civil servants to row in behind it. Is the Minister able to tell the House how he is marshalling and co-ordinating political and official activities to deliver that, and who will hold the circle to deliver across Government, rather than just in silos?

[Pat McFadden]

I am grateful to the Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee, as he points out an important problem. Siloing is a traditional and difficult issue in our system. This is a plan for the whole of Government—right across Government. The Prime Minister has been very clear with the Cabinet that the goals and aims set out in the plan for change are key things to deliver over the next few years. They require a whole-of-Government machine, crossing departmental boundaries and ensuring that we are focused on outcomes for the public rather than on the processes, which sometimes detain us.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his answer. The high streets have become almost a battlefield with shopkeepers trying to ensure that their goods are not stolen and that they are not attacked. In Northern Ireland, we had a problem similar to what the Minister has outlined and others have described. What helps is having CCTV in place, and a police force that is receptive and answers quickly to urgent requests for assistance. Has the Minister had any chance to talk to the Police and Justice Minister in Northern Ireland to ensure that what has been done here can be replicated in Northern Ireland in such a way that we can all gain?

[Pat McFadden]

Not for the first time, the hon. Gentleman speaks a lot of common sense. Wherever people are in the UK, they want the freedom to go about their business—shopping, work or whatever it is—in peace. We believe that some of those measures, such as CCTV, are important. So too is community policing. I am very happy to have a positive and constructive dialogue with the Administration in Northern Ireland and all the devolved Governments on these issues. Powers in these areas are devolved, but we share a common interest in protecting the public and ensuring that our streets and communities are safe.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Mike Wood (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire) (Con)]

In recent weeks, in response to written parliamentary questions, the Cabinet Office has refused to commit to updating Parliament on the status of the targets in this plan; refused to publish information on the delivery board monitoring; refused to have an independent review and audit of the targets and to publish an annual cost analysis of them; refused to publish a risk register on meeting the targets; refused to publish an annual report; and refused to publish a public dashboard. At the same time, Ministers have been unable to explain how a series of targets in the plan will be measured, so will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster explain whether this a sign that his Department is being obstructive and evasive, or that the plan has not been thought through beyond the slogans?

[Pat McFadden]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place. If he wants to know what the targets are, I suggest that he reads the plan for change; they are set out very carefully in it. On the lists of processes, I said that we were focused on outcomes. That is why today we have announced reform of the judicial review process to stop repeated, and often lengthy and hugely expensive, actions that delay important investment projects that are in the national interest. I would have thought that he would have welcomed that.

[Dr Allison Gardner (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab)]

2. What recent progress his Department has made on strengthening cyber security.

[Kevin Bonavia (Stevenage) (Lab)]

6. What recent progress his Department has made on strengthening cyber security.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)]

The battle to ensure protection against cyber-attacks is constant and ongoing. I made a speech to the NATO cyber-defence conference a couple of months ago, and said that the Government are taking action to strengthen our cyber-security and protect our digital economy to deliver economic growth. Last week, we announced important proposals to protect UK businesses from ransomware, the most harmful cyber-crime, which can often cost a lot of money and do a lot of damage. Those measures will complement the Cyber Security and Resilience Bill, which is being introduced this Session, to help to make the UK safer from cyber-threats.

[Dr Gardner]

Given the critical importance of closing the skills gap across the Government and defence sectors to safeguard against emerging threats in this digital age, which worry my constituents of Stoke-on-Trent South, what plans do the Government have to collaborate with organisations such as Code First Girls to develop a skilled and inclusive cyber-workforce, as highlighted in the artificial intelligence opportunities action plan?

[Pat McFadden]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s question. The AI opportunities action plan gives us great opportunities and shows how seriously we take this matter. I know that organisations such as Code First Girls are doing important work providing free coding courses for women. I thank them for that. It is really important in pursuing this plan that we have the skilled people to do it. I am pleased to say that much of the cyber-security work in Government is led by outstanding women. We want more people with the right skills, so well done to Code First Girls, which we look forward to continuing to work with.

[Kevin Bonavia]

Between July 2023 and 2024, over 150 cyber-incidents were reported by the local government sector in the UK. Last year, the average ransom demand from a ransomware attack was over £2.2 million. As the local government sector does not pay ransoms, the average cost to our councils of recovering from a ransomware attack is approximately £12 million. Will my right hon. Friend therefore make additional support available to local authorities to enhance their cyber-security and protect local services for constituents such as mine in Stevenage?

[Pat McFadden]

My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the threat to local authorities. This is a whole-system threat. It can affect central Government, private businesses and local authorities. In October, my colleagues at the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government launched the cyber assessment framework for local government, which sets a clear standard for the sector. They also provide monthly cyber clinics and support local authorities to improve collaboration, share intelligence and tackle common vulnerabilities. There has to be constant dialogue and a constant fight against this growing threat.

[Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Ministers in this Department and in others have been generous in engaging with my repeated requests for engagement with Cheltenham’s cyber-security industry, where GCHQ and the National Cyber Security Centre are located. There is increasing evidence that having the private and public sectors co-located is important for our cyber-security sector. The Golden Valley development provides an opportunity to do that, and the Places for Growth scheme might give an opportunity for more public sector officials to be placed alongside one of our most influential cyber-clusters. Would the Minister be interested in having a meeting about that?

[Mr Speaker]

But not at the expense of Lancashire.

[Pat McFadden]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I congratulate the hon. Member for his relentlessness in raising those issues on behalf of his constituency. He is right to draw attention to the assets we have there—GCHQ and the National Cyber Security Centre—and I pay tribute to the officials working there. There is a benefit to clusters in people learning from one another and in being close by, and it all helps contribute to our efforts in this area.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.

[Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)]

Last year, the National Cyber Security Centre, located in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Max Wilkinson), said that the Government were almost certain that Russian actors had attempted to interfere in the 2019 general election. We are clearly in a new era of politics. Trust in politics is at an all-time low; disinformation is on the rise; and following instances across the world of foreign interference in elections, it is essential that the Government make a plan to address this threat to democracy. It is vital that we take all possible steps to restore faith in politics to strengthen our political system, boost political engagement at home and protect our national democracy from external influences. What steps is the Secretary of State taking to safeguard the democratic processes of the United Kingdom from foreign interference?

[Pat McFadden]

The Liberal Democrat spokesperson makes some strong points. We have to take the protection of our democratic system and processes seriously. I outlined Russian activity in my speech to the NATO cyber-security conference a couple of months ago. We have to guard against it here and help other countries guard against it, too. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence made very clear yesterday what we think of Russian interference in our waters, and the same applies in the cyber-sphere.

[Richard Baker (Glenrothes and Mid Fife) (Lab)]

3. What steps he is taking to improve relations with the EU.

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[Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)]

13. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to reform public services.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)]

As I set out in a speech last month, modern government is about not just what the Government want to do but reform of the state itself. We want to see public services that revolve around the needs of service users, using new technology in the best way possible to secure value for money and better outcomes for our citizens. We have launched a number of test and learn projects with local authority areas to get better results on difficult issues such as temporary accommodation. Just this week, we announced that we will launch a new gov.uk app in June, which will be a step change in fast and easy public access to Government services.

[Dr Cooper]

I thank the Minister for those comments. How will he ensure that tackling health inequalities is baked into public service reforms, devolution agreements and local growth plans?

[Pat McFadden]

At the heart of what we want to do is improving living standards, outcomes and opportunities for all. One of the consequences of the long waiting times and waiting lists in the NHS in recent years is that it has been tougher on those who simply cannot afford to pay. It is therefore in the interests of good health and equal access to put in the investment that was announced by the Chancellor in the Budget, which is being taken forward in the plans announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care.

[Mr Lee Dillon (Newbury) (LD)]

The reform of public services and the reliance on artificial intelligence to deliver that led the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to pilot the Microsoft Copilot program. That pilot ended after six months, yet it demonstrated transformative improvements in departmental efficiency and was particularly beneficial for disabled and neurodivergent staff. Will the Minister confirm whether funding for that tool, which has been suspended until 2026, could be released so that staff could benefit from its application?

[Pat McFadden]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right to point out the advantages that can come from these things. I am reluctant to make specific announcements about funding for specific projects. However, the Government are determined not only to make the UK a good home for investment in AI, which will be huge around the world in the coming years, but to make the best possible use of AI in the delivery of public services, which we believe can get good value for money and better outcomes for the public. The road will not always be easy, and there will be things that go wrong, but frankly, with our tradition of creativity and innovation, we want to grasp this technology and make the best use of it.

[Daniel Francis (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Lab)]

14. What steps he is taking to reduce fraud in the public sector.

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[David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Pat McFadden)]

Since the last Cabinet Office questions we have set out the Government’s approach on public sector reform, published our response to module 1 of the covid-19 inquiry, updated the national risk register and launched our artificial intelligence opportunities plan. Just yesterday, alongside the Department for Work and Pensions, we introduced new legislation to deliver the biggest fraud crackdown in a generation, with greater powers for the Cabinet Office’s public sector fraud authority to retrieve some of the money that was lost during the last Administration.

[David Davis]

Quite properly, this week the Government have been talking about applying AI to improve efficiency and effectiveness across Whitehall. When a human civil servant—let us say at His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs or the DWP—makes a mistake and is challenged, they can explain their logic and how they came to the decision. We know that the courts always believe that computers are best and give the right answer, but AI makes mistakes—sometimes huge ones. Because of the way it is programmed, it cannot explain how it got to the decision. How will the Government ensure that the appeal process continues to work and we do not have a high-tech version of the Post Office scandal?

[Pat McFadden]

The right hon. Gentleman raises an important issue. The public inquiry into the Horizon scandal shows that blind faith in a computer system used in a court of law can lead to injustices. I do believe in the possibilities of AI, but it is important to keep the human element at all times. It will enhance human productivity but not replace it. That is the way we should go.

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[Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)]

Given the news from Germany, will the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster update the House on the work the Cabinet Office is doing to prepare for the possibility of an outbreak of foot and mouth?

[Pat McFadden]

I am grateful to the shadow Minister for his question. Those of us of a certain age will remember the appalling consequences of the last serious outbreak of foot and mouth in the UK, more than 20 years ago. Let me say very clearly from this Dispatch Box that we are treating this with the utmost seriousness. I met with Cobra officials yesterday and have asked for several briefings since the outbreak in Germany, and my colleagues at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at a ministerial and official level are taking this very seriously as well. We know the threat that such an outbreak would pose to our farming communities, and we want to work with farmers and do everything we possibly can to protect them from it. So far, there has been no outbreak in the UK, but we will—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. This is a very important subject; I totally agree. The trouble is, in topicals, I have to get a lot of Members in. As this subject is so important, I would always welcome a statement on Monday.

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his reply. Could he assure me that he is speaking to interested parties in Northern Ireland? Given that Northern Ireland is so closely connected to Ireland, which is part of the EU, farmers there are consequently very concerned that they may be affected by any spread of the disease. Will he therefore assure me that he is undertaking that work?

[Pat McFadden]

I will keep it short, Mr Speaker: we will ensure that we co-ordinate our response with all parts of the UK.

[Alice Macdonald (Norwich North) (Lab/Co-op)]

T4. The Labour-led city council in Norwich was recently awarded £34 million in Government funding to help to unlock affordable homes and jobs at Anglia Square. This is long overdue, and will bring huge benefit to Norwich. It is a brilliant example of the Government’s mission for growth as part of our plan for change. Will my right hon. Friend update us on broader cross-Government plans to deliver the affordable housing needed across the country?

[Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)]

T6. More than 170 tonnes of illegal meat products have been seized at the port of Dover since 2022. Given the biosecurity threat posed by African swine fever and foot and mouth disease to more than 800 farms in my constituency, alongside thousands of others up and down the country, what steps is the right hon. Gentleman taking with Cabinet colleagues to ensure national security and protect British agriculture? I am sure that a statement would be very welcome.

[Pat McFadden]

As I said in response to the shadow Minister, we take the threat of foot and mouth in particular very seriously. We want to work with our farmers and protect them. This is a matter of national security, but it is also a matter of making sure that Great British farming is not affected by the outbreak in Germany.

[Gregor Poynton (Livingston) (Lab)]

T5. Under the SNP, every public service in Scotland is straining under 18 years of mismanagement, with Scots paying more for less. Thanks to decisions taken by this UK Government, the Scottish Government have the largest budgetary settlement in the history of devolution. Does my right hon. Friend agree that more money will not solve all the problems with Scottish public services, and that we also need a programme of reform? Given that the UK Labour Government are instituting a comprehensive programme of reform, would he share those learnings with the Scottish Government in order that we can reform our public services, too?

[Pat McFadden]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to draw attention to the increased funding for the devolved Government in Scotland as a result of the Budget. We are also putting more money into the NHS in England. He is right to say that when we ask the taxpayer to pay more, that should come with reform. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has been clear about that, and I hope it applies elsewhere too.

[Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)]

The permanent secretary at the Ministry of Defence said recently that he would reduce the number of permanent civil servants at the MOD by 10% by the end of this Parliament. Will the Cabinet Office be larger or smaller at the end of this Parliament?

[Pat McFadden]

The hon. Gentleman has perhaps not been paying attention. We announced our programme to reduce the number of civil servants in the Cabinet Office just before Christmas.

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[Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)]

With impending decisions on airport expansions across the south of England, communities in my constituency, including Flamstead and Markyate, are very worried, not only because the evidence about economic growth is quite low but because the Climate Change Committee has said that the impact on the climate would be rather large. Can the Minister assure the House that the Government will be listening to the Government’s own advisers and will have a UK-wide capacity management framework before any airport expansion?

[Pat McFadden]

There has been a lot of speculation in recent days. I would advise the whole House to not comment on speculation. If there is an announcement to be made, it will be made.

[Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) (Lab)]

T8. Travelling and working abroad can be an incredibly enriching experience, and I welcome the Government’s steps to strengthen our relationship with the EU. My young constituents would like to know specifically what steps are being taken to increase their opportunities in Europe. What discussions has the Minister had with Cabinet colleagues and EU counterparts regarding an EU youth mobility scheme and any other further actions to ease work and travel for young people in Europe?

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[Pat McFadden]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care met with colleagues on this issue. We believe the vaccine programme had great benefits for the UK, but there is a compensation scheme in place for cases where that was not the case.

[Callum Anderson (Buckingham and Bletchley) (Lab)]

T9. Earlier this month, the Chancellor rightly went to China to put our UK-China relations on a more pragmatic footing. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on what assessment he has made of the National Security and Investment Act 2021 to ensure that it remains fit for purpose in safeguarding the UK’s economic and national security as we cultivate new commercial links?

[Pat McFadden]

The Chancellor was right to go to China. It is an important economic relationship, but there is a security aspect, too. The National Security and Investment Act has an important role to play; it is there to safeguard critical areas of the economy. We keep it under regular review, and we will approach the relationship keeping both the security and economic interests of the country in mind.

[Dr Marie Tidball (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

Two weeks ago, my constituency was hit by the worst snow in 15 years, leaving vulnerable and older residents, schools and GP surgeries blocked in by the snow. I commend the Barnsley council team, who were out 24 hours a day, eight days a week solid, but because resources are stretched, their gritters can cover only the council’s primary and secondary roads. Does the Minister agree that much more should be done to improve national resilience in extreme and exceptional circumstances where snow is prolonged by cold temperatures, by giving local authorities that cover rural areas such as mine increased gritting resources and access to snow ploughs?