Oral Answers to Questions

Oliver Dowden Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to strengthen cyber-security.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office (Oliver Dowden)]

I know that my right hon. Friend is particularly interested in this issue following cyber-attacks in her constituency in 2019. I can assure her that we are improving cyber-security defences across critical national infrastructure and Government organisations. Initiatives such as GovAssure, which I launched last year, are setting higher standards for resilience, and the Government’s cyber co-ordination centre is enabling collaboration and information sharing on cyber-security best practice.

[Vicky Ford]

I add my condolences to those expressed to Tony’s family.

Cyber-security is the biggest risk that many companies face, but many small and medium-sized businesses are not insured. Buying good-quality cyber-security insurance can involve a health check to ensure that systems are protected. The UK is the world leader in insurance and Chelmsford has the largest cluster of insurance companies outside London, so will the Minister meet me and representatives of the London insurance market to discuss how an improved quality mark for cyber-security could increase the availability of cover, ensuring that businesses and public sector bodies are better protected?

[Oliver Dowden]

I would be very happy to do so. As my right hon. Friend points out, cyber-insurance plays a vital role in helping to build resilience and we have a shared interest in developing it. The National Cyber Security Centre has stood up the cyber-insurance industry working group, which is working through all these issues. I have met with Lloyd’s of London, and both I and Treasury Ministers will be happy to have further such meetings.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Has the Secretary of State read the speech made by the Auditor General this week about cyber-security, which said that lack of investment in upgrading our infrastructure makes the Government vulnerable to cyber-attack? Is he comfortable that we are safe from such attack? Does that not show that the Tories are penny wise but pound stupid?

[Oliver Dowden]

I am aware of the speech and I have spoken in the House on many occasions about the challenges we face on cyber-security. It is an increasing threat landscape, but the Government are taking a range of actions to improve our cyber-security, not least GovAssure, which I announced last year. That is about going through the cyber-security of all Departments to bring it up to scratch. We published the cyber-policy handbook and we have introduced “secure by design” principles so that all new Government IT procurement projects are secure from the outset.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

The recent British Library incident is a stark reminder of the terrifying security risk and enormous cost of cyber-attacks, and recent ministerial answers have revealed a shockingly high number of red-rated IT systems across Government Departments. I hear the Secretary of State’s words, but given that the Government’s cyber-security strategy tells us that

“transparent central governance structures will maintain oversight and responsibility for cross-government cyber security risk”,

will he now set out the Government’s timetable for remedying this shocking situation and explain how he will keep the House updated on progress?

[Oliver Dowden]

We know about this in the first place because of the work undertaken by the Government to fully understand the cyber-security risks facing this country. We are better prepared than most countries around the world. None the less, in respect of the red- rated systems, we are developing remediation plans, all of which will be in place by next year. We are tracking progress and are confident that we will achieve over £1 billion in efficiency savings, in addition to achieving greater resilience by next year.

[Sir David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)]

4. What steps his Department is taking to improve access to public sector procurement processes for small and medium-sized businesses.

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[Feryal Clark (Enfield North) (Lab)]

6. What steps his Department is taking to protect public services and institutions from cyber-threats.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office (Oliver Dowden)]

We are protecting our public services from cyber-threats through our world-leading Government cyber-security strategy. We are also tackling the threat at source. Last year alone, we sanctioned 18 criminals responsible for spreading a prolific ransomware strain, and we exposed the Russian intelligence services for their attempts to target high-profile individuals and entities through cyber-operations.

[Feryal Clark]

I thank the Secretary of State for his response. In the wake of the recent attack on the British Library, will he tell us what assessment the Government have made of potential cyber-attacks on other non-departmental public bodies? How will he ensure that they are not vulnerable to similar attacks and that the country is not brought to a standstill?

[Oliver Dowden]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to highlight that attack. It demonstrates that such attacks can affect not just central Government; any agency of government can be subject to them. Indeed, we discussed it at Cabinet just this week. I continue to co-ordinate activity through the ministerial cyber board, and the National Cyber Security Centre works closely with Government agencies, including the British Library, to ensure that they are as robustly prepared as they can be.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

7. What recent discussions he has had with the independent adviser on ministers’ interests on ensuring transparency of declarations.

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[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

11. Whether he has had discussions with Cabinet colleagues on the potential impact of the use of AI on the delivery of public services.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office (Oliver Dowden)]

I discuss this area regularly with Cabinet colleagues. The Incubator for Artificial Intelligence, which I announced last year, will recruit experts from the private sector, academia and beyond, who will work with Departments to rapidly and responsibly develop new applications for artificial intelligence across Government, as part of radical plans to harness the potential of AI to improve lives and public services.

[Chris Stephens]

I join others in paying tribute to the great Sir Tony Lloyd; our thoughts and prayers are with his family today.

I thank the Minister for his answer. As the Government have started work on an artificial intelligence hit squad to eliminate civil service jobs and replace human labour, it is of urgent importance that they lay out the safeguards they will enact. The childcare benefit scandal in the Netherlands in 2021, where artificial intelligence baked in racial profiling that discriminated against minorities, highlights the necessity of strict controls and protections, so will the Minister reveal what steps they are taking to prevent the harmful use of artificial intelligence?

[Oliver Dowden]

It is not the case that this is about taking jobs off civil servants; it is to enable them to do their jobs better and more efficiently for the benefit of the public we serve in this place. In respect of the measures that we are taking to ensure that we follow best practice, the Government’s Central Digital and Data Office is ensuring a high delivery of quality and regular testing of that software throughout all stages of development. In addition, there is a service assessment model, so we are taking a number of steps to ensure that we guard against the risks that the hon. Gentleman highlights.

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[Ashley Dalton (West Lancashire) (Lab)]

T1.   If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office (Oliver Dowden)]

This week, I signed an agreement on biological security between the United Kingdom and the United States. This strategic dialogue will mean sharing more data, collaborating on research and co-ordinating action, preparing for a whole spectrum of biological threats. I also signed a memorandum of co-operation on cyber partnership with Japan, helping to fulfil a key element of the Hiroshima accord.

This week, the Government are making available a free portrait of His Majesty the King. Available to all public buildings, this portrait will hang in schools, police stations and local authorities, serving as a reminder of the country’s ultimate public service. I am sure the whole House will wish to join me in wishing His Majesty the King and Her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales very swift recoveries.

[Ashley Dalton]

It emerged this week that Avanti West Coast bosses were recently caught giving PowerPoint presentations bragging about receiving free money from the Government. Is this value for money?

[Oliver Dowden]

I am not aware of those allegations, but they sound very concerning and I am very happy to look into them on behalf of the hon. Lady.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

T2.   Last year, the Government trialled their emergency alerts system. This summer, I had the joy of going to South Korea. Unfortunately, I was caught up in the typhoon, but there were many such alerts telling people where roads were closed or flooded. Recently in Leicestershire, the likes of Shenton and Witherley came under the cosh of flooding, and my constituents are wondering whether the alert system could be used for something like this, as the Government website states that it can.

[Oliver Dowden]

Yes, the service is available, but it is up to local responders to determine whether to put in a request for it. In this case, they did not do so. I would commend the local responders—whether the Environment Agency, the police or the fire service—for their response. That tool is available to them should they need it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

I echo the condolences that have been given to the family of Tony Lloyd.

Further to the question about flooding, yesterday the Public Accounts Committee said that over 200,000 properties in England were vulnerable to flooding, and the budget for flood protection is now expected to cover 40% fewer properties than the Government originally said it would. We have seen the devastation that flooding can do in recent weeks and the terrible consequences for those affected. Given the Cabinet Office’s responsibility for resilience, can the Secretary of State explain why the plan is so far behind schedule and what the Government will do to protect the 200,000 properties that may now be left without adequate flood protection?

[Oliver Dowden]

As the right hon. Gentleman highlights, the Cabinet Office has responsibility for resilience under a lead Government Department model, but the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is responsible for individual flood defences. We have put record sums into flood defences and we have provided record flood defence building. Clearly, there is more to do to allocate those resources, but we have made considerable progress.

[Mr McFadden]

This week, Gareth Davies, the head of the National Audit Office, said that Ministers could save up to £20 billion a year of taxpayers’ money by modernising IT systems, tackling fraud and better management of major projects such as HS2. He also said that out-of-date IT exposes the UK to a greater risk of cyber-attacks, and we have heard reference this morning to the cyber-attack on the British Library. Why is it that time after time, the Government reach for tax rises—such rises will leave a typical family paying £1,200 a year more in tax—instead of saving money by getting a grip of these IT projects and major infrastructure projects, as has been called for by the National Audit Office?

[Oliver Dowden]

That is precisely why we have created i.AI—the Incubator for Artificial Intelligence—under my leadership to make sure that we apply artificial intelligence to drive down the cost of public services and to improve outputs. I say gently to the right hon. Gentleman that it is a bit rich to be taking lectures from the Labour party, which wasted over £26 billion when it was in government on failed IT projects—failed IT projects in the NHS, the Ministry of Defence and DEFRA. And where was the right hon. Gentleman? He was sat in Downing Street while that happened.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

T6.   May I first associate myself with the Deputy Prime Minister’s words about the royal family?On 23 February, this House has the opportunity to correct the constitutional sexism that means that one eighth of the seats in the other place are reserved for men only. Will the Government support and work with me on my Hereditary Titles (Female Succession) Bill to ensure that the succession of peerages moves in line with that of the Crown?

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

T3. In light of the shocking revelation that only 2% of the tip-offs received by the Government’s covid fraud hotline are being actively pursued, can the Secretary of State explain to an increasingly despairing nation what steps the Government are taking to recover every single penny of that fraudulently claimed taxpayer money?

[Oliver Dowden]

That is precisely why we set up the Public Sector Fraud Authority and I can update the House that in its first year it met more than double its target. In addition, there are both civil and criminal investigations ongoing to bring every person responsible to justice if they have defrauded the taxpayer.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

My constituency boasts the highest number of veterans of any in the UK, with about 12% of people having served, but the veterans agency is not assisting me and other MPs like me in serving my constituents, because when I raise issues with it, it insists on responding via ministerial correspondence from the Ministry of Defence. There can therefore be no direct interface with it, making it very time-consuming and frustrating for my constituents. Will the Minister get the veterans agency to introduce an MPs helpline so that veterans’ concerns can be answered quickly and efficiently?

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[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s cyber protect team in relation to learning the hard lessons that have arisen from the numerous data breaches of office information across the PSNI and throughout the United Kingdom?

[Oliver Dowden]

This was an appalling incident, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and it highlighted big flaws in how data is handled in respect of freedom of information requests. We have issued further guidance on how such requests should be handled, but I continue to work with officials in my Department and across Government to make sure that that sort of incident never happens again.