Supplementary Estimate (2012-13)

Michael Moore Excerpts

Wednesday 13th February 2013 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

Subject to parliamentary approval of the necessary supplementary estimate the Scotland DEL net of depreciation will be increased by £531,033,000 from £27,837,168,000 to £28,368,201,000. Within the total DEL change, the impact on resources and capital is set out in the following table:

Scotland in the UK

Michael Moore Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The Government have published the first paper in the Scotland analysis programme series to inform the debate on Scotland’s future within the United Kingdom.

“Devolution and the Implications of Scottish Independence” covers the benefits of devolution and the legal consequences of establishing an independent Scottish state.

Alongside this paper the Government have published an independent expert legal opinion from leading experts on international law. The opinion concludes that, in the event of a vote for independence, Scotland would become a “successor state”. It would therefore be required to create a new set of domestic and international arrangements. The remainder of the United Kingdom would be the “continuator state” and would not have to negotiate new treaties or memberships of international organisations because, as the continuing state, the remainder of the UK would be largely unaffected under international law.

Negotiations would need to take place with the UK Government on any requests to retain UK-wide arrangements on matters such as a currency union, financial regulation and national security. An independent Scottish state would also need to negotiate with the European Union and other international organisations to agree new terms and conditions of membership.

Future papers from the Scotland analysis programme will be published over the course of 2013 and 2014 to ensure that people in Scotland have access to the facts that will help inform them ahead of the referendum.

Constitutional Law

Michael Moore Excerpts

Tuesday 15th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I beg to move,

That the draft Scotland Act 1998 (Modification of Schedule 5) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 22 October 2012, be approved.

I am grateful that we have longer to debate the order than would usually be the case. This reflects the interest that hon. and right hon. Members have shown in the issue and the time they have spent scrutinising it, not least in the Scottish Affairs Committee, whose report is a very important contribution to the parliamentary process.

On 15 October 2012, the Prime Minister, the First Minister, the Deputy First Minister and I signed an agreement on behalf of our respective Governments that will, if the order is approved by this House and the other place, allow a legal, fair and decisive referendum to take place on Scottish independence. We will face the most important political choice that people have taken in Scotland in more than 300 years.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

What is the role of the Electoral Commission? Can the Scottish Government override it or is it mandatory for them to accept what it says?

[Michael Moore]

I applaud the hon. Gentleman’s early intervention. He will not be surprised to know that he has anticipated slightly an issue that I will turn to at reasonable length, with the House’s permission, later in my speech. Put simply, we expect the same standards to apply to the Scottish Parliament as apply here—no greater, no less.

This process began with the Scottish National party’s victory in the May 2011 Scottish parliamentary elections and its manifesto pledge to hold an independence referendum. From the very beginning, we recognised the political mandate that the SNP had secured for a referendum. However, as I set out in the House just over a year ago, the Scotland Act 1998 is very clear that the Scottish Parliament cannot legislate on matters reserved to this Parliament. That includes the constitution and, specifically, the Union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England.

That is why we published a consultation paper on 10 January 2012, which set out the different ways to deliver a legal referendum. Shortly afterwards, the Scottish Government set out their own consultation.

Our paper sought views on how to facilitate a legal, fair and decisive referendum. We set out the available legislative options and stated that our preferred option was to provide the Scottish Parliament with the legal competence to legislate itself. This received the overwhelming support of those responding to our consultation. More than 70% of respondents agreed that the Scottish Parliament should be given that power. Throughout the discussions with the Scottish Government, we stressed that there should also be a single question to deal decisively with the issue of independence. Three quarters of respondents to our consultation agreed. In our consultation paper, we set out our view that the Electoral Commission, the independent body responsible for overseeing referendums in the UK, should be responsible for this referendum. That is the same position as for any other referendum.

The UK Government’s position was supported by 86% of respondents. Indeed, that was a point that the Scottish Government accepted fairly quickly. They moved from their initial proposal to establish a separate Scottish body to oversee the poll to a position of accepting that the Electoral Commission was the right body to oversee the referendum.

We also sought views on timing and on the franchise. On timing, we sought views on when the referendum should be held. Many people supported our view that it should be held sooner rather than later. Indeed, the order before us today provides an end date for the referendum, but it does not prevent it from being held sooner. It will be for the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament to set the referendum date.

On the franchise, we asked for views on who should be entitled to vote in the referendum.

[Andy Sawford (Corby) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether there are any provisions in the Bill to take account of the views of the many Scottish people who live in other countries—especially the Scottish population in Corby, who are absolutely convinced that we are stronger and better together? Will he take account of their views?

[Michael Moore]

It is important that people in all parts of the United Kingdom make it clear to all of us living in Scotland that they value the Union and the United Kingdom. I respect the fact that there is a strong and rich diaspora of Scots all over the United Kingdom and, indeed, all over the world. Having looked carefully at the options for the franchise, we took a straightforward decision—we agreed wholeheartedly with the Scottish Government’s view on this—that the same franchise should apply to the referendum as applied to the Scottish Parliament elections that gave the Scottish National party its mandate in that Parliament. That keeps it simple, straightforward and fair, and that is the basis on which we will proceed.

[Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend not agree that it is an anomaly that a Frenchman living in Edinburgh can vote on Scottish independence when a Scot living in London cannot do so?

[Michael Moore]

I think that that is a reasonably easily understood anomaly. The French person, the EU national, who has made a commitment to living in Scotland is entitled to vote in a referendum there, just as they would be in the Scottish parliamentary elections. It is important that we show consistency on that front. I accept, however, that there is a range of opinion on this matter, and my hon. Friend has made his own point clearly.

On the issue of 16 and 17-year-olds participating in the referendum, respondents to our consultation were divided. I will return to that issue later.

[Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, if this order goes to the Scottish Parliament and if that Parliament agrees to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote in the referendum, the matter will no longer need to come back to this House or to the other place?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman highlights an important point. He is right to suggest that, if this House and the other place agree this order and it is passed, that will transfer responsibility for the referendum totally to the Scottish Parliament.

Following the respective consultations, a period of discussions between Scotland’s two Governments led to the signing of the Edinburgh agreement on 15 October. I will return to the other important elements of that agreement shortly, but first I want to deal with the order itself.

The order is made under section 30(2) and (4) of the Scotland Act 1998. It inserts a new paragraph 5A into part 1 of schedule 5 to the Act. Part 1 provides, among other things, that the Union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England is reserved to the UK Parliament. New paragraph 5A will ensure that the reservation does not apply to a referendum on independence, provided that the referendum meets the requirements set out. Those requirements are for a single-question referendum, on the subject of independence, to be held before the end of 2014, and without any other referendum provided for by an Act of the Scottish Parliament being held on the same day.

The order also makes provision in respect of public referendum broadcasts and free mailshots, which would otherwise be outside the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. Under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000—PPERA, as we know it —referendum campaign broadcasts can be made only by or on behalf of a designated campaign organisation. The order applies that provision of PPERA to an independence referendum. That means that the restriction in PPERA on who can make referendum campaign broadcasts can apply to the independence referendum.

The agreement in 2006 between the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the BBC requires the BBC to broadcast referendum campaign broadcasts, as defined by PPERA. The provisions of the order mean that the BBC will have the same obligations and responsibilities in respect of independence referendum campaign broadcasts as it would have in respect of any PPERA referendum broadcasts. Under PPERA, each designated campaign organisation can send a mailshot to every elector or household without being required to pay the postage costs. That service is provided by Royal Mail and the costs are recovered from the Consolidated Fund. The order applies those provisions in PPERA to an independence referendum. It specifically provides that the cost to the Royal Mail of providing the service will be recovered from Scottish Ministers.

The section 30 order that we are debating today will enable the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a legal referendum. The Scottish Parliament has already considered the order and approved it unanimously. If the order is approved by both Houses of this Parliament, it will enable the Scottish Government to introduce a referendum Bill setting out the wording of the question, the date of the referendum and the rules of the campaign for the Scottish Parliament to consider. This devolution of power will ensure that the details of the referendum process itself are made in Scotland, in the Scottish Parliament. That is a principle of great importance to the devolution settlement. Furthermore, the approach here respects another key feature of devolution—namely, that once a matter is passed to the Scottish Parliament, it is for that Parliament to determine the details of the legislation that follows.

However, our agreement does not just make the referendum legal and respect the devolution settlement. It also sets out the conditions that are necessary and that have been agreed between the UK and Scottish Governments for the referendum to be fair and decisive. In this context, it is important to consider the memorandum of agreement alongside the order. The agreement is a statement of political intent by Scotland’s two Governments. It commits us jointly to an approach to, and the delivery of, the independence referendum which will ensure that the proceedings are fair and that the outcome is decisive. With permission, Mr Speaker, I will therefore briefly describe that broader agreement.

At the heart of any fair referendum must lie a set of rules and processes that have the support of both sets of protagonists. For the outcome to be legitimate, both sides of the argument must have faith in all aspects of the referendum. That is particularly true when we are considering the future of our nation. The agreement therefore sets out the commitment of both Governments to the normal rules and procedures that govern referendums in the UK, as contained in PPERA. A core part of the PPERA process is the central role of the Electoral Commission. The two Governments have agreed that the Electoral Commission must review the proposed referendum question, and that its report will be laid before the Scottish Parliament. That process is under way. Since PPERA came into force, there have been three referendums held under that legislation.

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that, if the Scottish Government were to disagree with the Electoral Commission on what form the question should take, that position would be open to a legal challenge?

[Michael Moore]

I think that there would be a price to pay for that. If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I shall return to that issue shortly.

The three referendums held under the auspices of the Electoral Commission have been: the north-east regional assembly referendum in 2004; the referendum in Wales in 2011 on further devolution; and the referendum on the voting system for the UK Parliament, also held in 2011. In all three cases, the Electoral Commission reviewed the Government’s proposed question and provided its advice. The Government responded by revising the questions in line with that advice. Of course, in the past, some Members on the SNP Benches have referred to the wording of the proposed question for referendums on local council tax.

The Government made it clear when they brought forward the regulations to provide for those referendums that discussions were ongoing with the Electoral Commission on the wording of the question. Revised regulations were tabled on 8 January and the Electoral Commission has confirmed that it is content with the revised wording.

Under the terms of the Edinburgh agreement, it will be for the Scottish Government to respond to the advice of the Electoral Commission. The Scottish Government have committed to putting before the Scottish Parliament their response to the Electoral Commission’s recommendations. That means that the Scottish Government will be held to account by the public and Parliament alike for how they respond to that advice. All Opposition leaders in the Scottish Parliament have stated their intention to abide by the Electoral Commission’s judgment in this case. To do otherwise would be a significant step, for which there would be a political price.

As I have set out, both Governments recognise that the referendum process must be seen to be fair by both sides of the campaign. That applies across the process, but particularly to the financing of the campaign. As part of the Edinburgh agreement, the Scottish Government committed to consulting the two campaign organisations for their views before proposing spending limits for the referendum campaign to the Scottish Parliament.

The agreement ensures that the independent Electoral Commission will provide the Scottish Government with advice on the appropriate spending limits for the two campaigns and the parties. That is what has happened in previous referendums, such as the 2011 referendum in Wales on further powers for the Welsh Assembly. In that referendum, the Electoral Commission recommended that the spending limit for designated campaign organisations should be set by reference to the expenditure limits that apply to elections to the relevant legislature. In its response to both Governments’ consultation documents, the Electoral Commission provided its view that the model remains appropriate for the Scottish independence referendum. The Electoral Commission has met the parties represented in the Scottish Parliament to seek their views on the finance arrangements.

When the Scottish Government set out their final proposals for financing the referendum campaign in the referendum Bill, they must set themselves aside from their own campaigning interests and recognise that their approach is being watched by all of Scotland, and indeed by the international community. That is a point that the Deputy First Minister recognised when she rightly said that the poll must satisfy the highest international standards. All people must believe that there is a fair process and, therefore, a fair result.

Both Governments agree that the basis for the franchise will be that for the Scottish Parliament elections—that is, those UK or EU citizens who are resident in Scotland. That is set out in the Edinburgh agreement. In addition, the Scottish Government propose to give 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote. I recognise and respect that there are differing views on that issue in the House. My party, the Liberal Democrat party, supports the principle of 16 and 17-year-olds participating in all elections. Our coalition partners do not, however. Views on both sides of the argument can be found on both sides of the Chamber.

In devolving the power to hold the referendum, however, we respect that this is a matter that should be debated and determined by the Scottish Parliament. Indeed, where the Scottish Government and Parliament have the power to hold referendums and elections already, they have chosen to allow some 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. However, the Scottish Parliament’s decision with respect to health board and crofting commission elections in Scotland has set no precedent for any elections for which the UK Government are responsible. I fully expect that the Scottish Government’s proposals will be debated robustly in the Scottish Parliament. However, let me be clear that it will be for the Scottish Government to make the case for this proposal in the Scottish Parliament and to deal with the issues that arise. Let me be equally clear that any decision taken by the Scottish Parliament for the referendum will not affect the voting age for parliamentary and local government elections in the United Kingdom. That remains the responsibility of this Parliament alone to determine.

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

Have there been any practical discussions between the UK Government and the Scottish Government about the ability to implement this measure ahead of the referendum, given that there has been much talk of the inability to do so because of the state of the electoral register?

[Michael Moore]

That issue was discussed during the negotiations leading up to the Edinburgh agreement. However, as we made plain in the agreement and as I have repeated this afternoon, as we are devolving that power, it is for the Scottish Government to bring forward their proposals. That will require legislation and that legislation will be properly scrutinised by all of us and, in particular, by MSPs. That process is yet to get under way.

[Jim McGovern]

When I have visited schools in Dundee recently, it has been pointed out to me that it would be ridiculous if 16 and 17-year-olds were allowed to vote on the future of the country, but could not buy a packet of sparklers on Guy Fawkes night.

[Michael Moore]

That is a classic example of the debate that rages over whether 16 and 17-year-olds should vote in elections. I take it from that intervention that the hon. Gentleman is not a supporter. However, this is a matter for the Scottish Parliament.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for giving way; he is being very generous. We, as campaigners, will be contacting minors to seek their views and discuss the issues. Has he had any discussions with the Scottish Government about the rules and regulations that will apply to parties engaging with people who are not yet adults?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady hits on an important, sensitive and practical point that must be considered carefully in any legislation on this issue that is introduced in the Scottish Parliament. Until the legislation is published and people can consider its detail, her point cannot be properly examined. I am confident that the Scottish Government are alert to that issue and it is incumbent on them to bring forward appropriate proposals with the necessary safeguards.

[Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that although the whole House agrees that the Scottish Parliament should make the decisions about the conduct of the referendum, matters such as the franchise ought also to be discussed fully in this House, as we are doing now and will do for some considerable time today, because the outcome of the referendum affects not only Scotland, but the whole United Kingdom?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend has made two important and linked points. On the first issue, nobody is suggesting for a minute that people in this House cannot offer an opinion about whether it is right or wrong for 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. She is right that this afternoon is a good opportunity for people to make the case one way or the other. On the second point, she is also right that what happens in Scotland affects the whole United Kingdom. A huge amount is at stake in this big debate. Although people south of the border will not vote in the referendum, it is important that their views are included in the public debate. I am sure that they will be.

Before I took the interventions, I made the point that when 16 and 17-year-olds have been allowed to vote in admittedly smaller elections in Scotland, it has had no ramifications for the decisions that are made in this place, and neither will this decision. However, the debate on the rights and wrongs of 16 and 17-year-olds voting will remain live in politics and I see no worry about that.

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for giving way yet again. Before we move on from the franchise, will he advise the House whether there has been any progress in the talks on allowing members of the Scottish armed forces who are, through no fault of their own, serving elsewhere in the UK or around the world to vote in the referendum?

[Michael Moore]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady, who has made that point strongly not only on the Scottish Affairs Committee, but in other debates. I recognise that it is a sensitive issue. We must ensure that, as would be the case in any other referendum or election, those in the armed forces who have a connection to Scotland are aware of what it will take for them to vote in the referendum. There is a range of complexities in that, but the Scottish Government are aware of the issue and understand it. When they publish the legislation, there will be plenty of time for people in the Scottish Parliament, and those of us here who take an interest in the matter, to offer their views on the details.

[Mr Frank Roy]

May I point out to the Secretary of State that it is not only members of the armed forces who will be affected, but their wives and husbands? For example, people who are based in Catterick may have been moved there from Motherwell.

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point that reinforces the views of his colleagues, and I recognise that this matter is important to Members on all sides of the House. It will now be an issue for the Scottish Parliament to consider, and I am confident that in the political debate across Scotland the role of the armed forces and voting will be properly considered.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

The exchanges of the last moment or two have raised a broader question. Once responsibilities are handed to the Scottish Parliament, what will be the role of this place in monitoring the issue and ensuring—so far as we can—that the objectives of fairness and decisiveness are properly maintained?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend highlights an important issue and principle. In the order and the political agreement that sits alongside it, we set out what we believe should happen when the referendum process is resolved in the Scottish Parliament. As I said earlier, we are observing and honouring the principles of devolution so that when a matter is devolved from this place to the Scottish Parliament, it becomes that Parliament’s responsibility, including all the details and everything that goes with it. We are not, however, disfranchised from the political debate. Plenty of MSPs offered views on this process long before it went anywhere near the Scottish Parliament, and I am confident that lots of MPs will contribute to the debate long after it has left this place, and, if it is passed, the other place as well.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Will the Secretary of State confirm whether, as well as actively encouraging members of the armed forces from Scotland to register to vote, people will be encouraged to register their sons and daughters who are 16 and 17 years old? This issue will affect their lives as well.

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady adds to the points made by her hon. Friends. I am confident that all these issues will be debated in the Scottish Parliament, and I encourage her, and others, to make such representations directly. We are not stymied in this debate simply because we have passed the legal process—assuming that we do; I do not wish to take the House for granted in that respect.

[Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab)]

Is that what the SNP thinks?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman asks me to give views on the role of the SNP, but I am confident that, if they catch your eye, Mr Speaker, SNP Members will have an opportunity to contribute to the debate and set out their own views a little later.

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

rose—

[Michael Moore]

Finally, if I may.

[Jim Sheridan]

May I probe the Secretary of State on the timing of the referendum? He may recall the separatist slogan, “Scotland free by 2003”, yet when it gets the chance in 2012, the SNP says that it is not ready until 2014. Has he picked up any rationale for why that is the case, or is it just the general public view that they are just big fearties?

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Moore]

I am sure we can offer Hansard the appropriate assistance should it be sought. This is a point on which I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is slightly curious that after 80 years of existence—give or take—the Scottish National party is not rushing to get this over and done with straightaway. One would have thought it would want to do it as quickly as possible, and it would certainly be in Scotland’s best interest to resolve the issue as quickly as possible. However, it will be a matter for the Scottish Government and then the Scottish Parliament to consider.

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

rose—

[Michael Moore]

I did say finally, but I must give way to the former shadow Secretary of State.

[Ann McKechin]

I understand there is some suggestion that the Committees in the Scottish Parliament that will deal with the Bills on both the franchise and the referendum will be subject to a truncated timetable programme. Has the Secretary of State had any discussions with the Scottish Government about that? Given the importance of the referendum for our whole country, does he agree it is important that the Scottish Parliament’s Committees have appropriate time to consider the issues in great detail and ensure they are satisfactorily answered?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. I do not believe it is appropriate for us to discuss that directly with the Scottish Government; it is for the Scottish Parliament to decide how it determines its own business. Former Members of that Parliament who are in this House today may wish to pick up on the hon. Lady’s point. I absolutely agree, however, with her central point that we should consider the issue properly and seriously. Symbolically, we are taking longer than we would normally to consider a statutory instrument because of the significance of the order. People would look askance if parliamentary processes elsewhere were cut short in the course of the debate, but the issue is for the Scottish Parliament to determine. We all have colleagues in that Parliament who, I am sure, will make the hon. Lady’s point very vigorously.

Let me turn to one issue that has attracted some comment, particularly from the Scottish Government. The concluding paragraph of the Edinburgh agreement contains a commitment by both Governments to hold a referendum that is legal, fair and decisive. There have been some creative interpretations of this paragraph in recent times, and I want to take the opportunity to restate its clear and obvious meaning.

Paragraph 30 reads:

“The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed, through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others, to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two Governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two Governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.”

That means that the two Governments will conduct the referendum on the same constructive terms as they work today, and that if the referendum follows the path set out in the order and agreement, its outcome will be decisive. Regardless of the result, that constructive relationship should continue as we move forward. That is good practice and common sense. It does not mean, however, that in the event of a yes vote, the remaining UK would facilitate Scotland’s every wish—no more than an independent Scotland would unquestioningly facilitate the wishes of the remaining UK. Inevitably, when there are two separate countries, there are two sets of interests—sometimes mutual, sometimes at odds. That is the case in the UK’s relationships with its closest allies today, and we honour that principle, and so it always will be between separate, sovereign states.

The Edinburgh agreement, particularly paragraph 30, is a statement of our determination to hold a referendum that is legal, fair and decisive. It does not—and cannot—pre-empt the implications of that vote, and it is important that everyone is clear about that.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State talks about what might happen if the result of the referendum is yes. Whose interests will he be representing post the yes vote?

[Michael Moore]

I am absolutely confident that Scotland will vote to stay in the United Kingdom. I am committed to doing what is in the best interests of Scotland, regardless of the outcome, as I said on the radio yesterday morning.

Scotland’s future within the UK will be the most important decision that we as Scots take in our lifetime. Facilitating a legal, fair and decisive referendum is critical. That is why we consulted on this issue, why both Governments have spent many hours discussing and negotiating the process, and why we seek the support of the House today to approve this order.

Debating this order in the House today marks an important step as we move from discussions on process to the substance of the great debate. It is now essential that the referendum decision is focused on determining whether Scotland chooses to remain an integral part of the most successful partnership of nations the world has ever seen; to remain part of a family of nations that works in the interests of all; or whether it wishes to leave and go it alone. That decision should not be taken lightly; it should be taken after examining all the facts.

[Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State think it fair that the Scottish Government can be both the referee and a player in a referendum?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman and his fellow Committee members have written important reports on this subject and highlighted the dangers in the process. As I made clear in my earlier remarks—and this, I think, is the tenor of the contributions we may anticipate this afternoon—the Scottish Government will act in setting the rules and pushing them through Parliament on behalf of all Scots and both sides of the argument. It is important that they do so in a way that is not fair to one side and unfair to the other.

I strongly believe that, with the support of colleagues across the House, across Scotland and across the whole of the United Kingdom, fellow Scots will join me in the autumn of 2014 in choosing to remain part of the United Kingdom. We are indeed better together. In the meantime, I commend the order to the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Moore Excerpts

Wednesday 9th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con)]

1. What steps Ministers in his Department are taking to promote Scottish business overseas.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The Government have taken a range of actions to promote Scottish businesses overseas, including the appointment of Brian Wilson as a UK business ambassador. I have also held recent discussions with the Canadian Trade Minister and with business leaders in Canada and the USA.

[Mr Amess]

How many Scottish business leaders has the Secretary of State met who believe that the Scottish trading position will be improved if Scotland leaves the United Kingdom?

[Michael Moore]

No Scottish business leader has ever put that point to me, possibly because they recognise the strength of Scotland’s being in the United Kingdom and the fact that there are 162 UK Trade & Investment offices backed up by 270 consulates across the world.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Last year, the Scotch whisky industry was worth more than £4.2 billion; it is one of Scotland’s and the UK’s biggest exporting industries. Can the Secretary of State confirm that the UK Government charge for its promotion internationally? How much do they charge and why?

[Michael Moore]

I join the hon. Gentleman in welcoming the success of the Scotch whisky industry, which is a huge part of the overall success of Scotland’s food and drink sector and goes alongside other significant economic areas such as financial services, energy and the like, which are so critical to Scotland’s exporting potential. I do not want to put any of that at risk; that is why I think that Scotland’s being part of an international network of embassies, consulates and UKTI offices is the best way forward.

[Angus Robertson]

Everyone will have noticed that the Secretary of State did not answer the question. I asked him whether he would confirm that the UK Government charge for the promotion of Scotch whisky internationally. Apparently, the Foreign Office does charge—£3,000 a time to Scottish Development International to promote Scotch whisky at international events. That is utterly ridiculous. What is he doing about it and when is it going to stop?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman chooses to ignore the fact that, thanks to the UK Government, we have our network of offices across the whole world, and our embassy network is second to none—certainly when compared with what an independent Scotland would have. Scotch whisky is in a much stronger place as a result of Scotland’s being part of the United Kingdom than it would be if we were independent.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

Does the Secretary of State recognise how important the energy industry in north-east Scotland is to driving export potential for Scotland? We have built a strong home base for skills and technology, honed in the North sea, and that is a base for great export potential to provinces around the world.

[Michael Moore]

I pay tribute, as I have in the past, to my hon. Friend’s significant work in this area. He is an undoubted champion of the oil and gas sector, not just in north-east Scotland but across the whole UK. He is right to point out the sector’s potential and will be aware that I met the Brazilian ambassador and Brazilian oil and gas interests in Aberdeen a few months ago. I look forward to returning to Brazil to focus on oil and gas issues in the next few weeks.

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

I go back to the question of Scotch whisky, which accounts for 25% of all UK food and drink exports, yet is held back by various tariff barriers around the world—most notably in India, where there is a tariff of 150%. Will the Secretary of State set out what action the Government are taking to help whisky industry export growth in other countries?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the importance of the whisky sector, not least to large chunks of Scotland; it is not just concentrated around the distilleries. We are working hard with Scotch whisky interests to ensure that we work within Europe to break down the barriers in India and elsewhere. There is a level of support for the Scotch whisky industry that it could not hope to have in an independent Scotland.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

2. What effect cancelling the fuel duty rise planned for January 2013 will have on motorists in Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

3. What discussions he has had with ministerial colleagues and Ministers in the Scottish Government on the continued use of sterling in an independent Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The United Kingdom Government are undertaking a programme of work to inform the debate ahead of the referendum. This involves looking at a range of issues including the importance of sterling to all parts of the United Kingdom. There have been no discussions with the Scottish Government about the use of sterling by an independent Scotland.

[David Mowat]

The decision to use sterling after separation means that the Bank of England will be the bank of last resort and the lender of last resort to Scotland. To avoid a repetition of what happened in the eurozone, the UK residual Government must have an oversight role in Scottish spending plans. Has this been sought, and on what time scale will it happen?

[Michael Moore]

There have been no such discussions. The important point is that sterling has served Scotland and the whole of the UK well for 300 years. We have seen in the eurozone the risk of having a formal monetary union without a fiscal union. A fiscally independent Scotland would create real complications in that regard. All this would have to be negotiated after the referendum vote, and it would take some persuading for people in the rest of the UK to take on the role that the Scottish National party wishes for it.

[Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)]

The Minister knows very well that the Scottish Government intend that Scotland should continue to use sterling after independence, and as sterling is a fully convertible and floating currency there is precisely nothing to stop that. While it makes far more sense to have a formal union, does he not agree that a stability pact based around debt and deficit levels is perfectly sensible but can in no way be portrayed as a foreign currency running Scotland’s economy?

[Michael Moore]

First, I am sure that the whole House will join me in welcoming the hon. Gentleman back to his place. Although we do not always agree with all his points and arguments, we are absolutely delighted with his contribution. We are glad to see him in good health and wish him all the best.

Should Scotland vote to become independent in the referendum—I do not believe that it will—the use of sterling would be a matter for negotiation. The reason for the Bank of England’s credibility as the lender of last resort at present is that we have a single, central fiscal authority and the UK taxpayer stands behind it. To complicate that would require negotiation with the rest of the UK, which would have to consider its interests. We cannot have a one-sided wish list; we have to recognise that there will be negotiation.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Is not the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) and, in fact, the Secretary of State wrong on this? If there were an independent Scotland, I assume that it would want, mistakenly, to apply to join the European Union, so would it not then be required to accept the euro?

[Michael Moore]

There are many ways in the which the SNP and the hon. Member for Dundee East are completely wrong—I agree with the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) on that. He makes an important point that, amid all the SNP’s turmoil over its position on Europe, it has never set out how it would negotiate the opt-out from the critical central requirement to join the euro.

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

13. Last year, on 5 December, I took part in a Westminster Hall debate in which the Under-Secretary said that he had commissioned a report into why the separatist-led Dundee city council was the worst-performing local authority in Scotland with regard to the Work programme. I have contacted his office several times since, but he has yet to get back to me. On 19 December, he said that I would get a letter with more details, but I have yet to receive it. When will the report be published?

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman wanted to inquire about the continued use of sterling in an independent Scotland.

[Michael Moore]

I am not sure how the Work programme would be affected by a different currency or the currency arrangements after independence, should that be the way we go. My right hon. Friend the Under-Secretary would be delighted to meet the hon. Member for Dundee West (Jim McGovern) as soon as possible to discuss the important issue that he has raised. We will make sure that that happens.

[Mr Speaker]

It may be that the hon. Member for Dundee West really wanted to come in on question 4 and that he got ahead of himself. I do not know, but it is done and I am sure that he is grateful.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

Against a difficult economic backdrop, the autumn statement set out a range of measures to protect Scotland’s economy, to help equip Scottish businesses to compete in the global race and deliver growth, and to ensure that businesses and households in Scotland are treated fairly.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

Would my right hon. Friend confirm that one disastrous consequence of any hypothetical independent Scotland would be a disjointed transport system? Although my Lincoln constituency might benefit from more capacity on the east coast line, does the Minister agree that many people in Scotland would not be happy to see direct rail services on the line from London to Edinburgh and beyond curtailed in any way?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the importance of keeping Scotland within the United Kingdom, to the benefit not just of Scotland but of the whole United Kingdom.

[Gemma Doyle]

The Government said that they would get the deficit down, balance the books fairly and get people back to work. However, the deficit is billions of pounds higher this year than it was last year, one in five working families is having its tax credits slashed, and long-term unemployment is rising faster in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Is the Secretary of State happy to be part of a Government who are failing all their own tests?

[Michael Moore]

The deficit has come down by a quarter, and the hon. Lady should acknowledge that the Government are clearing up the mess that Labour left behind. We will take absolutely no lessons from the hon. Lady or her party. We have cut income tax for the lowest earners: they did not. We have restored the earnings link to pensions: they refused to. We have helped millions of Scottish motorists during difficult times: they were planning to do the opposite. We will take no lessons from Labour on how to manage the economy.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Moore Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The agreement reached between the United Kingdom and Scottish Governments recognises the importance of the independent Electoral Commission and that the referendum should be based on the normal rules for referendums held across the UK.

[Bob Blackman]

It is clearly important for all parties to respect the independence of the Electoral Commission. Does my right hon. Friend agree that if the SNP Administration in Scotland were to ignore the commission’s advice, that would taint the whole process and call into question whether the referendum was fair?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend is right to highlight the expertise and experience of the Electoral Commission, which is indeed a highly respected institution. I do not think that it would be in the interests of the Scottish Government or any nationalists to pit themselves against the commission’s advice.

[Karen Lumley]

Does my right hon. Friend share the concern that the referendum question submitted to the Electoral Commission by the Scottish Government is weighted in favour of a positive outcome?

[Michael Moore]

I understand the concern that people feel about the formulation presented by the Scottish Government, but I think that, given its great experience, great expertise and trusted status, the Electoral Commission is in the right position to carry out the right procedures. I am ready to stand by its advice, and I hope that the Scottish Government are too.

[Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Secretary of State accept that while the Electoral Commission may be a trifle wishy-washy on occasion, it is necessary for an impartial body to decide important questions such as the question of the question? The alternative is for separatists to be both referee and player, and it is simply unacceptable for the party that is on one side of the argument to decide the rules as well.

[Michael Moore]

I entirely agree with the eminent Chair of the Scottish Affairs Committee. He and his colleagues have been conducting a series of investigations of that issue and others relating to independence. I believe that the referendum must be seen to be fair to both sides. We cannot possibly have folk calling the outcome into question at the end of the process, which is why we have laboured long and hard to secure a referendum that is legal, fair and decisive. I hope that the Scottish Government will accept the Electoral Commission’s advice.

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

Given that any proposal to extend the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds is unlikely to take effect until the spring of 2014, will the Electoral Commission provide advice on how all those young people will be able to register and vote in any referendum?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady has raised an important point about the potential extension of the franchise. It will be for the Scottish Government to present detailed proposals, but I imagine that the Electoral Commission will be closely involved in the guidance that is provided for all voters as we approach the referendum.

[Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con)]

Yesterday, the gentleman who gave evidence to the Select Committee chaired by the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson) on behalf of the Yes Scotland campaign for separation refused to state categorically that his campaign would abide by the advice of the Electoral Commission. What sanctions can be imposed on a Government, a Parliament or a campaign that blatantly refuses to take the commission’s advice ?

[Michael Moore]

I understand my hon. Friend’s anxiety, but this Government and their predecessors have always followed the advice of the Electoral Commission, and I would expect the Scottish Government to do so as well.

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State has just asserted yet again that no Government have ever ignored the advice of the Electoral Commission, and has implied that the Scottish Government might. Far from ignoring the commission’s advice, the Scottish Government have yet to receive it. Meanwhile, the right hon. Gentleman’s Government have rejected the Electoral Commission’s advice on the desirability of referendums on council tax in England. Will he now put the record straight?

[Michael Moore]

I hope that I can reassure the hon. Gentleman and help him to calm down. As the Electoral Commissioner John McCormick said on television just the other weekend,

“For every referendum that has taken place, the Electoral Commission’s advice and question has been accepted.”

As for the issue of local government referendums, none has taken place. We have already said that we have reflected on the Electoral Commission’s advice, and I shall be presenting proposals on that question very shortly.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to promote businesses in Scotland around the world.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

12. What steps his Department is taking to promote businesses in Scotland around the world.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The Government are committed to promoting United Kingdom businesses, including in Scotland, around the world. Brian Wilson, the former Trade Minister, is currently carrying out a review of Scottish exporting and has been appointed a UK business ambassador with special focus on Scotland.

[Andrea Leadsom]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that reply. Does he agree that, as well as promoting business, we need to support businesses at this time when access to finance is so difficult? What steps is he taking to work with the devolved Government to ensure that there are prompt payments in the supply chain, and in particular that the public sector pays private sector suppliers in a timely fashion?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Government are committed to ensuring that private sector suppliers are paid on time so they can sustain their businesses, and I am happy to work with the Scottish Government, or anybody else in the public sector, to ensure that everybody adheres to best practice.

[Alun Cairns]

What action is the Secretary of State taking to ensure there is no conflict between Scottish Development International and UK Trade & Investment when they use public money to try to attract companies either side of the border by offering bigger carrots?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend underlines the importance of trade for the Scottish and UK economies. Scotland’s exports are worth some £22 billion, but to put things in perspective, that is half the value of what we sell into England, Wales and the rest of the UK. SDI has 21 offices in 13 countries, whereas UKTI has 162 offices in 96 countries, and 270 Foreign and Commonwealth Office consuls operate in 170 countries. That network offers a great opportunity to Scottish business to get the best out of the United Kingdom. It is important that we work together, and it is clear that we are stronger together and would be weaker apart.

[Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab)]

As we have seen, the work undertaken here has an impact on Scottish businesses both at home and abroad. May I draw the Secretary of State’s attention to the troubles that Scottish businesses are currently experiencing, however? Unemployment is now higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Recent research by the Fraser of Allander Institute reveals another challenge for the Scottish economy and Scottish businesses: it found that welfare changes in Glasgow alone will remove £115 million from the local economy and lead to the loss of almost 2,000 jobs across Scotland. What does the Secretary of State plan to do about that?

[Michael Moore]

I share the hon. Lady’s analysis in this respect: there is a huge mess that has to be cleared up, and there are significant challenges and some deep-seated problems in the Scottish and UK economies, as well as real problems on our doorstep in Europe. Every time she comes to the Dispatch Box, however, she tries to duck Labour’s responsibility for the mess we inherited, and she simply cannot do that. We are determined to ensure that through welfare reform we make work pay, by supporting the most vulnerable and helping people into work. We are also determined to put money back into the pockets of low-income and middle-income Scots; from next April, 162,000 will be taken out of tax entirely, and 2 million will have seen their tax bills reduced.

[Margaret Curran]

Perhaps I can draw the Secretary of State’s attention to some of the comments made by his Liberal Democrat colleagues, who I do not think share his enthusiasm for his welfare changes, and ask him to focus on the loss of jobs that they will cause in Scotland. Perhaps he should focus a little more on that. The truth is that the Government’s policies are hitting Scotland hard, and the Secretary of State must start addressing the work his Government are doing in Scotland. Earlier this month in a letter to me, the Secretary of State revealed he is not on a single one of the Cabinet Committees dealing with either the economy or welfare. The last time I questioned the Secretary of State we had no action on food banks, and now there is no action on Scotland’s economy. It would seem that he does not understand the impact of the welfare changes in Scotland. When are you going to start doing your job in relation to the Scottish economy?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am certainly doing my job, but I think the hon. Lady is referring to the Secretary of State, and we will now hear about how he is doing his.

[Michael Moore]

Once again, we are going to take no lessons from the Labour party about the state of the United Kingdom economy. We have a plan that will make sure we deal with the mess it left us, and that gets us back on the right track and gets us sustainable growth—unlike Labour, which has no plan whatever.

[Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con)]

4. What recent discussions he has had with the Scottish Government on the referendum on Scottish independence.

[John Robertson (Glasgow North West) (Lab)]

5. When he last met the First Minister to discuss the planned referendum on Scottish independence.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I have discussed the referendum with the Scottish Government on a number of occasions, most recently on 15 October, when Scotland’s two Governments reached agreement on the process to ensure that there is a legal, fair and decisive referendum.

[Mr Amess]

Does the Secretary of State agree that one of the arguments for separation is based on the false premise that it would be good for the Scottish economy? Does he agree that separation would be good for the English economy but not for the Scottish economy?

[Michael Moore]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that Scotland is stronger as part of the United Kingdom economy. We would be weaker if we were outside it, primarily because it gives us access to this huge single market which takes twice as many of our exports—if we can call them that—as anywhere else in the world; it has the resilience to absorb huge financial catastrophes, such as the bank collapse; and it gives us the clout internationally to be at the top table, where all the key economic decisions are made. That is far better for Scotland.

[John Robertson]

Does the Secretary of State agree that last week we saw an example of what happens when people do not listen to the Electoral Commission—the debacle of the police commissioner elections, with a turnout of less than 10% in some places and empty boxes? Will he talk to the Scottish Government to ensure that a similar debacle does not happen in Scotland?

[Michael Moore]

Funnily enough, I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman on the example he uses, but I am in complete agreement with him on the principle that we should listen to the Electoral Commission and follow its advice.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I was not particularly going to ask about this issue, but I am happy to ask the Secretary of State—

--- Later in debate ---

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Thank you for clearing up that confusion, Mr Speaker.

Can the Minister confirm that following the Edinburgh agreement, which all parties agreed to, the referendum on independence is now exclusively a matter for the Scottish Parliament and that this House has no further role in it?

[Michael Moore]

I know that the hon. Gentleman always wants to denigrate the Parliament of which he is a part, and I wish he would stop doing that, but I point out to him that a rather important part of that agreement is that we will pass the section 30 order, which will transfer the powers to the Scottish Parliament. Importantly, that will involve debates in this place and in the other place, as well as in the Scottish Parliament. We are all part of this debate, and all Scots will be part of that political process.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

When the Secretary of State next meets the First Minister will he share with him the powerful call of President Clinton and Secretary Albright when they visited these shores reminding us that what binds us together is far more powerful than any distinctions in identity?

On economic co-operation, was the Institute for Fiscal Studies not right to point out that if we want to diversify the Scottish economy away from our dependence on oil and gas revenues, we need not only a shared currency and interest rate, but a powerful and strong fiscal union which benefits Scotland? That is the likely result in terms of our shared prosperity in the future.

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman makes two important points. One is that when senior international figures look at the issue confronting Scots—the most important political decision in 300 years—time and again they say that they think Scotland would be better off as part of the United Kingdom. Secondly, the report he highlights is significant as it shows the strength of Scotland’s economy as part of the UK, both in terms of its opportunity and in reducing the risks attached to it. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Far too many noisy private conversations are taking place—mainly on the Opposition Benches at the moment. Let us hear from Mark Pritchard.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

7. What recent assessment he has made of the economy in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The UK Government have reduced the deficit by a quarter and we are taking important steps to promote growth. Cutting corporation tax, accelerating infrastructure projects and establishing the funding for lending scheme are just some of the range of measures being implemented.

[Ian Murray]

Does the Secretary of State agree with the recent assessment of the Institute for Fiscal Studies that in the event of a separate Scotland the economy will not be sustainable in the long term?

[Michael Moore]

I quite agree with the hon. Gentleman. We will have much stronger opportunities if we continue as part of the United Kingdom than we will if we go our own separate ways.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

Vion has put up for sale McIntosh Donald, a meat processing factory at Portlethen in my constituency that employs 600 people. Will the Secretary of State emphasise to any potential buyer north-east Scotland’s excellent reputation for high-quality meat production and the importance of the factory in a route to market for that excellent product?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. These have clearly been difficult months, particularly for those employed by Vion at Hall’s in West Lothian, and now we have the sale of the rest of the group. I am happy to meet my hon. Friend and other Scottish colleagues to discuss the implications, and encourage everybody to see the potential in the company. I hope that we will sustain the jobs that are in it.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Vion’s decision to cease operations in Scotland also affects up to 400 people in my constituency in Cambuslang. Does the Secretary of State agree that it is intolerable for the company to refuse to provide those 400 people, who are obviously very anxious about their future, with meaningful information? Will he make contact with the company to remind them that they should be ensuring that their employees get clarity about their positions as soon as possible?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very fair point and I shall certainly take it up on his behalf and add to his efforts with the company. I will be happy to meet him in due course to discuss it further.

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

8. What steps the Government are taking to widen access to superfast broadband in Scotland.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Moore Excerpts

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab)]

1. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Defence on the effect on Scottish-based defence jobs if Scotland becomes an independent country.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on defence matters relating to Scotland. There is no doubt that there would be far-reaching implications for all sectors of the economy, including the defence industry, should Scotland become independent.

[Lindsay Roy]

I thank the Minister for his answer. I am very proud of the immense defence work that has been undertaken in Fife—for example, at Raytheon in my constituency. The contribution to national security has been immense. According to the Ministry of Defence, the new Type 26 frigate that is about to be commissioned will be the backbone of the Royal Navy for decades to come. Can the Minister advise how likely it is, in the light of possible separation, that the frigates will be built in Scotland?

[Michael Moore]

I pay tribute to the hundreds of skilled workers in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency who contribute so much to United Kingdom and, indeed, international defence through the work that they do at Raytheon and elsewhere, and I agree that this is not the time to be putting that at risk. On the specifics of the Type 26, it is clear that if Scotland were an independent country, the rest of the UK would be applying European Union procurement rules, which basically keep such contracts for the domestic market. We would therefore be locking ourselves out of the potential for millions of pounds-worth of work involving hundreds of jobs in Scotland, and that is not acceptable.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that Scotland makes a magnificent contribution not only in terms of manufacturing, as we heard from the hon. Member for Glenrothes (Lindsay Roy), but in terms of basing and recruitment? Will he welcome, with me, the fact that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence has gone to great lengths to keep Scotland in the Union as regards defence, and does he agree that that would very probably be lost if there were to be independence?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to focus on what would be at stake were Scotland to become independent and separate from the rest of the United Kingdom. The Scottish contribution to UK defence is absolutely immense, but Scotland gets a huge amount from being part of the UK. We are safer, and we have more clout, as part of the United Kingdom, and I do not want to put any of that at risk.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Since this Government took office, service personnel numbers are at a record low and commitments have been broken on returning troops from Germany, on facilities, and on the retention of historic Scottish regiments. Is this totally embarrassing record the reason why the Secretary of State for Defence has never even visited Scotland since taking office?

[Michael Moore]

If we are talking about embarrassment on defence policy, the hon. Gentleman should look to his own party’s policies on these matters. In Scotland we have access to a UK defence budget of £34 billion—the fourth largest in the world. We have 15,500 service personnel and 40,000 people working in the defence industry in 800 different companies. That is an immense contribution from UK defence to Scotland and from Scotland to UK defence.

[Angus Robertson]

To correct the Secretary of State, service personnel numbers are just over 10,000; I am sure that he would want to amend the record on that.

So the Secretary of State is not denying that the Secretary of State for Defence has not even been to Scotland since taking office. The Defence Secretary was asked for a meeting in November last year. He was asked for a meeting in March this year and nothing came of it. An offer was made of discussion through the former Armed Forces Minister, the hon. Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey), when I met him and the joint chiefs of staff in June last year, but there has been no formal response from the Government since then. Why is the Ministry of Defence so bad at dealing with Scotland?

[Michael Moore]

I completely reject what the hon. Gentleman has said. Defence Ministers, as well as the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell) and I, have made regular visits to different defence installations around Scotland; indeed, we have done so only in the past couple of weeks. I understand why the hon. Gentleman wants to dodge the serious issue here. He does not want to focus on the Scottish National party’s defence policy, particularly the little trick it wants to pull on NATO. The SNP knows that people want NATO security and defence, but it wants to have a pick-and-mix approach—to take on the baubles of NATO and not the obligations. That just will not do.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

3. What discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on reform of the common agricultural policy as it affects Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

6. What recent assessment he has made of the effect on Scotland of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

A total of £33 million worth of Olympic and Paralympic contracts were awarded to businesses in Scotland. Businesses will also have benefited from the hugely popular events that took place in Scotland. The games have been very successful and provide a great springboard for the Glasgow Commonwealth games in 2014.

[Mr McCann]

The Olympic and Paralympic games show how great sporting events can be used to regenerate large parts of our cities and their surrounding areas. Will the Secretary of State ensure that the lessons from London 2012 about regeneration and legacy are shared with the organisers of Glasgow’s Commonwealth games?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman has focused on exactly the right issue—legacy. When congratulating all the Scots and others who participated in the Olympics and Paralympics, we are reminded of this summer’s great festival of sport and its fantastic outcomes. Apart from inspiring a generation—obviously, that is already under way—what matters is that we get regeneration in the regions around London and across the UK. I believe that the economic legacy will be strong, and I hope that the lessons from London will be learnt in Glasgow as well.

[Tom Greatrex]

During the Olympic games, I was privileged to be a games-maker at Hampden, along with people from many different backgrounds volunteering for the first time. The Secretary of State has discussions with the Scottish Government on many different issues, but will he urge the organisers of the 2014 Commonwealth games to take the best from that volunteer programme to ensure that many people can get involved in Glasgow 2014 in the same way?

[Michael Moore]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, whom I saw in the games-maker uniform and who was very helpful when I visited Hampden for the United States versus France women’s football game—clearly he has talents for things other than politics. He makes an important point. The volunteering legacy is one of the most important parts of the games—perhaps one of the more unexpected parts—and I hope that that legacy will be evident in Glasgow in two years and that people across the whole of Scotland will take part.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Would my right hon. Friend like to take the opportunity to congratulate that Scottish gold medallist, Mr Andy Murray, on his remarkable marathon triumph in the US? Has he noticed that the term “Scolympian”, coined by the Scottish First Minister, appears rapidly to have fallen into disuse? Also, has he heard of any Scottish competitors selected either for the Olympics or Paralympics, or any medallist in either games, complaining that they were representing the United Kingdom, not Scotland?

[Michael Moore]

I join my right hon. and learned Friend in congratulating Andy Murray on his Olympic gold medal and on securing his first grand slam title—an immense achievement that is being celebrated the length and breadth of the country. The Olympic games demonstrated the great benefits of working together, whether in terms of financing, training or, indeed, competing—our first Olympic gold was won by a Scot and somebody from the south-west of England. That was great and perhaps makes the point that we are better together.

[Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con)]

Would the Secretary of State like to clarify further that there is no conflict between being Scottish and being British, and that millions of reasonable people in the UK and all over the world live happily as both?

[Michael Moore]

There are occasions when the hon. Lady and I have differences of opinion, but we are at one on this issue. She is absolutely right. I am sure that people across the House will accept that being Scottish and being British—all these things—can be done at the same time.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

The Scottish National party would like to take this opportunity, too, to congratulate Andy Murray on a fantastic win. The whole of Scotland and the UK is celebrating that magnificent success. I am sure that the Secretary of State will agree that we must look beyond the mixed economic impact and appreciate the huge lift that the games gave to Scotland. All of Scotland was cheering on Team GB. We supported our Scottish athletes as well as those from right across the UK. Team GB was Scotland’s team, and it was great that they did so well. Will he assure me, however, that he will work as closely as possible with the Scottish Government to ensure that we secure the maximum economic benefits from the Glasgow Commonwealth games?

[Michael Moore]

On a personal level, I agree that the hon. Gentleman has consistently supported Scots and other GB Olympians and Paralympians—although that has not always been the tenor of contributions from all in his party. As my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for North East Fife (Sir Menzies Campbell) said, the term “Scolympian” did not exactly get carried high after the First Minister coined it. The hon. Gentleman’s point about legacy is important, but with the Chief Secretary and others we have already been working closely with the organisers of the Commonwealth games to ensure that they are a fantastic success. The London Olympics have created a great platform from which to do that.

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

5. What recent discussions he has had with his ministerial colleagues on the Government contracting services to post offices in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

Ministerial colleagues and I regularly discuss issues regarding post office services in Scotland and we recognise the importance of maintaining the network. That is why the Government have committed funding of £1.34 billion to secure its long-term future.

[Mr Reid]

The Post Office has delivered Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency services—including car tax renewal—well for many years, and it is trusted and supported by the public. Does the Secretary of State agree that the DVLA contract should not simply be handed over to the cheapest bidder, and that when deciding to whom to give the contract, the high quality of service delivered by the Post Office for many years should be given a high weighting?

[Michael Moore]

May I put my hon. Friend’s question in context? We ended the compulsory closure programme that we inherited from the Labour party, which saw 5,000 post offices close over a seven-year period, including more than 400 in Scotland. We are investing in the post office network to ensure that it is sustainable. As the hon. Gentleman will know, the DVLA contract must be conducted under EU procurement rules, and it is about not only the cost but other important criteria such as customer service and security of supply. We will ensure that all those objective tests are met.

[Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab)]

One in five post offices in Scotland is under threat of closure because of this Government’s policies. The nationalists criticise that, but they have scrapped the post office diversification fund, which shows them to be no better than the Secretary of State and his friends. If a post office does not accept parcels, cash deposits or withdrawals, and does not provide DVLA services, is it a post office? Is the Secretary of State happy to sit idly by while the Tories and the nationalists destroy our post office network?

[Michael Moore]

May I welcome the hon. Gentleman on his debut at the Dispatch Box? He has a strong track record in Scottish politics, and I look forward to the debates that we will have over the months and years ahead. It was, however, quite a cheek to lead with that question, not least because—as I said in an earlier reply—it was the Labour Government who closed 5,000 post offices across the UK, including more than 400 in Scotland. We want to see a sustainable network. We are investing in that and are determined to ensure that services across the country go through the Post Office.

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

Is the Secretary of State aware that since 2005, the level of Government services that go through post offices has fallen from half to a fifth? Losing the DVLA contract would have a dramatic effect and possibly lead to the closure of many more post offices. If the Government cannot do anything about that, what is the point of saying that the Post Office should be the front office of Government?

[Michael Moore]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s desire to see a sustainable post office network. Over the past two years we have reversed the previous Government’s damaging policies, and we are committed to significant further investment in the network. I do not, however, see the same level of support coming from his colleagues in the Scottish Parliament.

[John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con)]

7. What assessment his Department has made of the introduction of a 50p per unit fixed minimum alcohol price in Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

Since this question was last asked in February, no new official figures have been published. The most recent estimate of the level of public expenditure in Scotland, published in October 2011, shows that the level of public expenditure in Scotland was £10,165 per head for the year 2010-11.

[Mr Bone]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. Ten thousand pounds per year on average is paid by taxpayers to people in Scotland, but in my constituency and the rest of the east midlands it is £8,000 per person. Is that fair?

[Michael Moore]

The last time my hon. Friend raised this point, it followed a discussion with Mrs Bone and other members of the family. I appreciate that she is otherwise distracted getting herself ready for this weekend’s charity run, for which the whole House will wish her all the best. I regret that when she focuses back on politics, the answer she will hear is very little different from the one I gave a few months ago, namely that our priority is to sort out the public finances and the mess we inherited from the Labour party. We are focused on that relentlessly, and any future review must wait until it is completed.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

It is a fact that Barnett spending was higher in both Northern Ireland and London than Scotland. Does the Minister know that Scotland has 8.4% of the UK population, but pays 9.6% of UK taxation and is more than paying its own way?

[Michael Moore]

I agree with one part of the hon. Gentleman’s observation, namely that spending around the UK varies considerably. We need to take all spending into account as we assess the situation. As for believing the Scottish National party’s figures, we must continue to agree to differ.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with the Deputy Prime Minister on the West Lothian question.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I am in regular contact with my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister on a range of issues. When the commission on the consequences of devolution for the House of Commons has concluded, we will have an opportunity to discuss its findings and its official report.

[Mr Hollobone]

Is the Secretary of State confident that the commission will report on time in spring 2013? Is he also confident that it will bring forward meaningful proposals when it reports, and not just another recommendation for another commission or inquiry to kick the question further into the long grass?

[Michael Moore]

These are very serious issues. That is why we have the expert commission looking very seriously at them. The commission has a cross-section of experts, representing all parts of the UK. All in government look forward to its findings and to debating them.

[Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab)]

I am glad you called the new Member for West Lothian, Mr Speaker—I inherited Tam Dalyell’s question. The new question, clearly, is how many questions should there be in the referendum in Scotland? In my constituency, they say it should be one: do people want to separate from the rest of the UK or stay in the UK? Does the Secretary of State agree?

[Michael Moore]

I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman that there should be only one question on the ballot paper.

[Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con)]

11. What involvement his Department had with the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games; and if he will make a statement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Michael Moore Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

1. What steps he is taking to promote the benefits of Scotland remaining within the UK.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

As my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has made clear, we believe that Scotland is stronger in the United Kingdom and that the United Kingdom is stronger with Scotland in it. Leading up to the referendum, the Government will produce detailed evidence and analysis to assess the benefits that Scotland gains from being part of the United Kingdom and the contribution that Scotland makes to our United Kingdom.

[Bob Stewart]

I thank the Secretary of State. Does he agree that the defence of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland will be greatly enhanced if we do not have a separate Scotland? Defence matters greatly to the whole of this country.

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Over the next 18 months, civil servants will prepare detailed analysis and evidence that will show the basis of the arguments that we need to be involved in as Scotland confronts this great debate. Fundamentally, protecting our citizens is one of the most important parts of our role in government. We will also want to consider our position in the world and the economic benefits that we get from being part of the United Kingdom.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State and his Tory and Labour allies in the anti-independence coalition all say that they believe the constitutional status quo is not sustainable. With only days to go until the formal launch of the no campaign, will he outline to the House what joint proposals they have for further devolution? What powers will be devolved, and when?

[Michael Moore]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman has not got himself into trouble by mentioning the “independence” word, but he is a brave guy, so perhaps he thought it was a risk worth taking.

It is a bit rich for the hon. Gentleman to come here and ask questions of us, with our having just delivered the biggest transfer of financial powers from London to Scotland since the Act of Union. Every time we ask him what “independence” means, his proposals unravel.

[Angus Robertson]

Last time I looked this was Scottish questions—questions to the Secretary of State and the UK Government. I ask him for a second time: given that he and his allies say that the constitutional status quo is not sustainable, what specific joint proposals do they have for the further devolution of powers? He did not answer the question the first time I asked it. Will he please answer it now?

[Michael Moore]

I thought that the hon. Gentleman’s party had belatedly and even grudgingly welcomed the fact that the Scotland Act 2012 has now set in place the biggest transfer of financial powers north of the border, including borrowing powers, the Scottish rate of income tax and the transfer of stamp duty land tax. The debate to which he refers, which we all need to get on with, is the one about independence. That is why the UK Government are absolutely committed to ensuring that we get the necessary evidence and analysis, working with experts, academics and outside bodies to ensure that we are equipped for that great debate across the country.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend consider that Scotland being part of the United Kingdom is an important benefit in any international trade disputes? I particularly have in mind the efforts of the United States some years ago to restrict the import of the finest quality cashmere goods from his own constituency, in a dispute about bananas. Was the fact that Scotland was part of the United Kingdom an important factor in ensuring a proper resolution of that issue?

[Michael Moore]

My right hon. and learned Friend is absolutely right. It was critical to us in the borders, and to the producers of luxury goods the length and breadth of Scotland, that we were part of the United Kingdom. We had great clout within the European Union and could negotiate within the World Trade Organisation to get the right outcome. Our position in the world, the protection of our citizens and the future of our economy are the three key strands that we will examine to ensure that we are well informed in this great debate.

[Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)]

We heard it here first: the launch of the “Separatists for Devolution” campaign. Scottish National party Members do not like the word “separation” or the word “independence”, and they want to leave Britain in order to make us more British. What a ludicrous set of proposals.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think there was a question somewhere.

[Michael Moore]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman.

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

What representations has my right hon. Friend had on whether an independent Scotland would wish to join the euro?

[Michael Moore]

None, but it is a matter for the Scottish National party and Scottish Government to set out their proposals. They have singularly failed to do so.

[Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State may be aware that I received answers to parliamentary questions yesterday that indicate that although the Scottish Government argue that a separate Scotland will continue to use sterling, the Bank of England and UK financial regulatory institutions, they have not yet undertaken any work behind the scenes to explore those options—no correspondence has been sent, no questions have been asked and no discussions have taken place. Does he agree that the First Minister should spend less time in Hollywood and more time in Holyrood—[Interruption.] It was a good try. Given that the Scottish Government have made those statements on the economy and a separate Scotland, what steps has the Secretary of State taken to clear up the confusion and ambiguity of such claims?

[Michael Moore]

I agree with the hon. Lady that it is quite striking that the SNP and Scottish Government are curiously short on the detail as they set out their lifelong ambition to create an independent Scotland, and that they are not curious to ask more questions. I start from a simple point: Scotland is stronger within the UK and the UK is stronger for having Scotland as part of it. The economy is a key part of that argument.

[Margaret Curran]

I thank the Secretary of State for that argument. In such debates on Scotland, we have assertion, not argument, and fantasy rather than facts—the Scottish Government’s arguments cannot pass the most basic test of credible evidence. Will the Secretary of State and the whole UK Government therefore work with others to ensure that we have credible evidence and arguments that pass the test of objective and independent scrutiny to ensure that Scottish people get the arguments they deserve?

[Michael Moore]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady that it is important that this great debate is well informed by detailed evidence and strong analysis. That is why the Government are getting civil servants to work through the key issues and to engage with academics, think-tanks and other respected experts outside the Government to ensure we have all the evidence to inform the debate. As we do that over the next 18 months, I am confident we will show beyond doubt that Scotland’s place is much stronger as part of the UK.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

2. What discussions he has had on the effect of the Scottish Government’s modern apprenticeship scheme on employment in Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sandra Osborne (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab)]

5. What steps he is taking to expand employment opportunities in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The Government are committed to creating the right environment for sustained economic growth to provide the basis for the creation of secure jobs.

[Mr McKenzie]

It should come as no surprise to the Secretary of State that unemployment in Scotland is at crisis level. The unemployment figures are unacceptable; in particular, the youth unemployment figures are disgraceful. If it were not for my council in Inverclyde—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are grateful, but we must move on.

[Michael Moore]

I agree that we must do everything possible to reduce unemployment, particularly youth unemployment, which, as the hon. Gentleman will recall, began to rise during the growth periods under the previous Labour Government. Through our measures, including the Work programme, the youth contract and our joint work with the Scottish Government, we have been bearing down on the problem, but I am happy to meet him to discuss the matter further, if he wishes.

[Sandra Osborne]

Is the Secretary of State aware that the Scottish chambers of commerce have today called for an expansion of infrastructure investment to help Scottish businesses? What will he do to ensure that this happens?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Lady needs to recognise the serious steps we are taking to get the economy back on a secure path to growth, after what we inherited from her Government two years ago. We must also bear in mind the crisis in other parts of Europe. By cutting corporation tax, keeping interest rates as low as possible and introducing specific measures for Scotland, including the enterprise areas in Irvine, Nigg and Dundee, we are taking action to help the Scottish economy.

[Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that by cutting corporation tax, reducing regulation and, at the same time, having the largest Work programme the country has ever seen, we are succeeding in Scotland, with 14,000 fewer unemployed people this month—the third month in a row?

[Michael Moore]

I certainly welcome the reduction in unemployment, but we need to recognise that things will continue to be challenging for people the length and breadth of Scotland and the rest of the UK. My hon. Friend is right, though, that our measures to get the economy back on the right track are fundamentally right and are the way to create secure jobs.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

Does the Secretary of State agree that Statoil’s decision to invest in the North sea and a further 300 jobs for Aberdeen is recognition that the Treasury’s positive new approach to encourage investment is bearing fruit?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend is right. There have been significant announcements in the energy sector from Statoil, BP, Gamesa and others on the future of Scotland’s energy needs, not only in oil and gas but elsewhere. They recognise that that is an important part of what the Government are committed to and that Scotland is better for being part of the UK when it comes to delivery.

[Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)]

I am glad that the Secretary of State welcomed the 14,000 fall in unemployment—that is good news—and I am sure he will also want to welcome today’s news on foreign direct investment into Scotland creating jobs, but of course he is right that we must create the right environment for businesses to employ people. That means downward pressure on costs, particularly fuel prices, which are recognised as one of the most significant cost pressures that businesses face. Will he therefore ask his Treasury colleagues to cancel the fuel duty rise planned for August?

[Michael Moore]

I point out to the hon. Gentleman that thanks to the Government’s actions in introducing the fuel duty stabiliser and abandoning the escalator we inherited from the Labour party, we are doing a lot to help motorists, and will continue to do so.

[Mr Speaker]

I remind the House that the clue is in the heading—“Questions to the Secretary of State for Scotland”.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

Listening to the Secretary of State reminds us how totally isolated he is in Scotland in believing that the answer to this crisis of weak economic demand is harsher austerity over the next four years. Does he not accept that nearly twice as many people as on black Wednesday are being forced to work part time because there are not enough full-time jobs in our economy? Some 320,000 people in Scotland are struggling below the poverty line despite being in work, and real wages have fallen every month that this Government have been in office. Is that not the real explanation of why we face a double-dip recession, made in Downing street?

[Michael Moore]

It may suit the hon. Gentleman’s case, but he cannot be allowed to forget the legacy of his Government and the mess that we inherited two years ago, nor can the Opposition be allowed to be blinkered about the challenges around Europe and the world. We are ensuring that we create the right financial and economic conditions to get Scotland and the UK economy back on the right foot.

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

4. What recent discussions representatives of his Department have had with representatives of the Scottish agricultural industry.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab)]

6. What recent discussions he has had with the Scottish Government on youth unemployment.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I meet with Scottish Ministers regularly to discuss a range of issues. On 15 March, Scottish Ministers joined me in Dundee for a joint-Government summit to discuss youth unemployment in Scotland, and we agreed to continue to work together on this important issue.

[Michael Connarty]

With the information that there was falsification going on in the apprenticeship schemes—with people already in work being counted as new apprentices—and with the offshore oil industry saying that it needs 44% of those with non-graduate technical skills to fill the spaces that are coming up in the industry, is it not time that the Secretary of State showed some leadership and called an all-party, all-Parliament forum in Scotland about unemployment and stopped the behaviour of the Scottish National party, which has been running a single-party state, with its Ministers wandering round having one-party meetings?

[Michael Moore]

I appreciate the length of time that the hon. Gentleman has spent working on this issue over his political career. I also believe that it is important that the parties can work together, because the origins of youth unemployment lie elsewhere, rather than just under this Government’s tenure. I am happy to work with him and others to ensure that we get all the best ideas focused on tackling youth unemployment.

[Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s recent visit to my constituency’s largest employer, Aviva in Bishopbriggs, which has 1,100 staff, and his support for my “Get East Dunbartonshire Working” initiative, which has helped to create 43 new employment and training opportunities in the local area since the end of April. What more can the Government do to ensure that businesses are aware of the support that is available, particularly through the £1 billion youth contract, to employ young people in particular?

[Michael Moore]

I thank my hon. Friend for the opportunity to pay a visit with her to the Aviva offices in her constituency, and I pay tribute to Aviva for the work it is doing with young people and others. It is very important that we do all that we can to support young people. That is why the youth contract is now in place, boosting work experience, increasing the number of wage incentives that are available and ensuring that the Scottish Government have support for more apprenticeships.

[Mr Speaker]

There is plenty of scope for an Adjournment debate, I think.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State recently visited my constituency. I wonder whether he could give us a progress report on how he has got on with the schools-industry liaison committees.

[Michael Moore]

I regret to inform the hon. Gentleman that I have not made as much progress as he would wish me to. I hope, however, that he will recognise the important support that we have given to Irvine, in the form of the enterprise allowances—the 100% capital allowances that are now available—and I will be happy to catch up with him on the school-industry partnership and the Scottish Government’s role in it any time soon.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the plans to reform employment law will particularly encourage small businesses to take on more young people?

[Michael Moore]

As my hon. Friend will know, the employment law review will carry on through this Parliament, and I look forward to seeing the proposals that will come forward in due course.

[Mr Tom Clarke (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

7. What steps he is taking to reduce energy prices in Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

8. What steps he is taking to reform central Government funding for the devolved Government in Scotland.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

As the coalition agreement sets out, we are committed to a review of public funding arrangements once we have dealt with the unprecedented deficit that we inherited from the previous Government.

[Mr Leigh]

Someone would need an intelligence as profound as that of Spinoza to understand central Government funding of Scotland, but it must be clear to even the most basic English person that not only do we have no say over education and health in Scotland while they run ours, but we pay over the odds for theirs. Should not the Scottish National party be careful what it wishes for when it calls for independence?

[Michael Moore]

My hon. Friend, more than most, understands the complexities of public spending in this country. I say to him, however, that our priority has to be to reduce the deficit, after which we can look at these issues again. I would also gently point out to him that within England there are quite large variations, and that the figure per head for spending in London is higher than in Scotland.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

10. Given that the Scottish Government have had no discussions with either the Chancellor or the Bank of England about having a place on the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee—which would be a committee of a foreign country—does the Secretary of State agree that this is another fanciful assertion that cons the Scottish people?

[Michael Moore]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely right to highlight the fact that the Scottish Government are yet again making such assertions rather than producing detailed analysis and evidence, which is what this Government are determined to provide in this great debate. The Scottish Government seem willing and able to swap a good partnership for some kind of new dependency, and that is not right.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

9. What assessment he has made of the implications for the Scottish fishing industry of the recent EU Fisheries Council.

Emergency Towing Vessels

Michael Moore Excerpts

Tuesday 12th June 2012 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The Scotland Office has been leading efforts to secure a long-term replacement for the emergency towing vessels (ETV) service in waters surrounding Scotland. The Government have listened carefully to all representations and reviewed the arguments put forward.

I am pleased to announce that the Government will continue funding of an emergency towing vessel for the duration of the spending review period. This commitment sits alongside our ongoing efforts to secure an additional vessel under a commercial call-out arrangement. The procurement process for the publicly funded vessel will be launched today and, if needed, further funding will be provided towards a temporary contract for a vessel until the longer-term arrangement is put in place. To ensure sufficient coverage across a wider spread of waters, the vessel will not be used habitually for passive escorts through the Minch, but could be tasked by HM Coastguard to undertake specific escort duties should they consider it necessary. Options for optimal stationing of the vessel will be sought from the market, however decisions on operational positioning and tasking will rest with HM Coastguard. This model is intended to ensure the best possible coverage across locations while accommodating practical considerations, in particular the distances involved, sea conditions and traffic density.

Combined with the host of significant technological advances and operational measures adopted by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency to enhance safety of shipping since publication of the 1994 Report by Lord Donaldson¹, the Government are satisfied that this model will deliver a proportionate solution, balancing risk, operational considerations and value-for-money, including costs of an incident. I welcome the active participation of local authorities, including local harbour masters, who have assisted in this process, and we will continue to consult them on the detailed options available.

I remain very grateful to the companies who have participated actively in pursuit of a commercial call-out arrangement using oil industry vessels. This shows their commitment to corporate social responsibility, and I pay tribute to the efforts of Oil and Gas UK who facilitated this work. It is encouraging that considerable work has gone into preparation of suitable operational procedures, led by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and discussions remain underway with industry on the commercial framework.

¹1994: “Safer Ships, Cleaner Seas”: Report of Lord Donaldson’s Inquiry into the Prevention of Pollution by Merchant Shipping (Command Paper CM 2560).

Government's Legislative Programme 2012-13 (Scotland)

Michael Moore Excerpts

Thursday 10th May 2012 Written Statements

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

The legislative programme for the Second Session was outlined by Her Majesty on Wednesday 9 May.

The Government remain committed to reducing the deficit and restoring economic stability. This programme of legislation will focus on ensuring economic growth across the United Kingdom including Scotland.

We will implement important reforms of the banking system to promote a competitive economy and protect and sustain jobs. These reforms will also reduce risk in the system to help guard against a repeat of the financial crisis and provide greater stability in our banking system.

The Government will reform the energy market to help create a sustainable and greener energy future as well as supporting the transition to a greener economy with the creation of the new United Kingdom Green Investment Bank.

We will implement regulatory reform to reduce burdens on business and will take forward measures to reform the pensions system to make it fair and financially sustainable. We will create greater choice and flexibility for parents in how they share the care of their child in the first year, helping both parents to achieve a better work and family balance. A Groceries Adjudicator Bill will ensure large supermarkets treat their suppliers fairly and lawfully.

We will continue to take forward measures to renew the constitution of the United Kingdom by reforming the composition of the House of Lords, making the registration system for electors more secure and working toward the end of the male bias in succession to the Crown.

In this Session we will protect freedom of speech and strengthen the oversight of the security and intelligence agencies and bring forward important measures to prevent and reduce organised crime.

This statement provides a summary of the legislation announced in the Queen’s Speech and its application to Scotland. It does not include draft Bills. Fourteen of the 15 new Bills mentioned in the Queen’s Speech for this Session of Parliament contain provisions that apply in Scotland, either in full or in part.

In addition to the Government Bills listed here we will seek to support the Scottish Law Commission in bringing forward measures to reform the law in relation to Scottish Partnerships and Unincorporated Associations.

The Government are committed to the principles of the Sewel convention. As in the First Session of this Parliament, we will work with the Scottish Government to secure consent for Bills that contain provisions requiring the consent of the Scottish Parliament.

The Bills listed in section 1 will apply to Scotland, either in full or in part. The Bill listed in section 2 will not apply in Scotland.

Section 1: Legislation applying to the United Kingdom, including Scotland (either in full or in part);

Crime and Courts

Families and Children

Enterprise and Regulatory Reform

Justice and Security

EU (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision)

EU (Croatian accession)

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Public Service Pensions

House of Lords Reform

Groceries Code Adjudicator

Small Donations

Pensions

Banking Reform

Energy

Section 2: Legislation that will not apply in Scotland

Defamation

Scotland Bill

Michael Moore Excerpts

Thursday 26th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

As we begin debating the Lords amendments, I hope the House will consider it appropriate for the Opposition to mark the significance of what is likely to be our final consideration of the Scotland Bill. If it receives Royal Assent in the coming days, the Bill will represent the largest devolution of financial powers to Scotland in 300 years; will make decisions on spending and taxation more transparently accountable to the Scottish Parliament than at any time since 1999; and create new borrowing powers with the potential to boost economic growth significantly.

This enhancement of devolution is the culmination of a four-year process of cross-party and cross-societal constitutional reform through the Calman commission, which was established by Wendy Alexander and other pro-devolution party leaders in Scotland. Its outcome was accepted in a White Paper by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy); was assisted by my hon. Friends the Members for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin) and for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) in various capacities; and has been implemented with cross-party support by the coalition Government.

It is also welcome that the Scottish Government have finally indicated their assent, if not warm-hearted approval, for the Bill, after a significantly longer and more circuitous journey to reach that position than that undergone by Scotland’s other political parties.

[The Secretary of State for Scotland (Michael Moore)]

I would like to pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman, his colleague the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Members for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin) and for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) and those from all parties in the House and elsewhere who have helped to make this Bill what it is today. I hope that the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) will agree that this is a good model for how parties should work together to produce consensus and plan, and then devolve significant powers to Scotland.

[Mr Bain]

I heartily agree with the Secretary of State.

The Bill is good for democracy in decentralising certain financial powers, and good for the Scottish economy in devolving the right levers to promote further growth.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stewart Hosie]

Indeed it does. We can safely say that we have no territorial claims on Antarctica. This is a Scotland Bill, and the re-reservation removal is sensible.

Lords amendment 18 deals with reports on the implementation and operation of financial measures in the Bill. That is a sensible provision, and it is linked closely to the commencement of those financial provisions. We made that point repeatedly throughout debates on the Bill. In the Committee of the whole House, on the second day of debate, we discussed commencement powers to ensure that things were done at the correct time. We had a good debate on six separate commencement provisions for various financial measures. We said:

“If the commencement arrangements are left unchanged, many of the most important questions about the Bill will be left unanswered.”—[Official Report, 14 March 2011; Vol. 525, c. 89.]

On Third Reading, we said that the amendments that we had tabled on commencement would ensure that the tax provisions could not

“be brought into effect unless the Scottish Parliament...specifically consented.”—[Official Report, 21 June 2011; Vol. 530, c. 248.]

That was not just a point of principle—matters that affect the Scottish Parliament should be decided by the Scottish Parliament—but concerned some practical, technical issues. If a number of fiscal measures were introduced at the wrong time in the economic cycle that could be detrimental economically. Several Labour Members understood that point, and did so very clearly indeed, and it was interesting that Labour abstained from decisions on commencement—the party did not object to it, and I am glad that it welcomes what we have at the moment.

I want to take the opportunity, unusually, to be generous to the Secretary of State. The discussions and negotiations between his team and Bruce Crawford, the Cabinet Secretary for Parliamentary Business and Cabinet Strategy, and the letter that the Secretary of State sent to Bruce and to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance, Employment and Sustainable Growth, John Swinney, were extremely helpful, particularly the part of the letter that said:

“Consistent with the principle of consent”—

which was what we were determined to deliver—

“our two governments should reach agreement on implementation issues, including adjustments to the block grant…Each government should also provide assurance to its Parliament before the relevant provisions of the Bill are brought into force and before implementation arrangements are brought into effect.”

That agreement on the requirement properly to engage the Parliaments, and the principle of consent, were what we were trying to achieve. For the avoidance of doubt—and I have said this to the Secretary of State for Scotland, so it is not a surprise to him—of course there will be a bun fight about the contents of the Bill. Of course the matters that are being devolved do not go far enough for the Scottish National party—that is not a huge surprise—but making sure that we avoid the dangers of the financial provisions commencing at the wrong time was always the key thing that we needed to change. The Secretary of State knows that, so I very much welcome that exchange of letters to ensure that commencement is done properly on the basis of consent.

[Michael Moore]

Allow me to be equally generous to the hon. Gentleman in accepting the points that he has made. From the outset, we have made it clear that we want to reach agreement on all those provisions before they are implemented. What he and his colleagues originally wished for was joint commencement powers, which are not in the Bill. However, we are committed, as we properly have to be, to working with the Scottish Government, of whatever colour, to ensure that those proposals are implemented properly.

[Stewart Hosie]

I thank the Secretary of State. Irrespective of the final mechanism, which was a subject of some negotiation, the provisions, which allow us to proceed on the basis of consent and agreement, effectively deliver the protections against the commencement of fiscal provisions at the wrong time, which was a key objective in getting to where we are.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I make the same apology to the House as I made to you earlier, Madam Deputy Speaker, for having been late for the debate? There was a break-in in Glasgow and I was involved in clearing things up.

As Chairman of the Scottish Affairs Committee, I very much welcome clause 18. Aside from the political discussions and disagreements in the Committee and elsewhere about the Bill, the main issue on which we wanted the Government to move was the question of transparency and whether the transfer of financial powers, both borrowing and revenue-raising, would have unintended consequences. We were concerned that the transfer might lead to errors and a diminution in the amount of money going to the Scottish Parliament owing to other changes not intended by the legislative movements being proposed.

We wanted to ensure that everything was above board and clear because we recognised that gainsayers of devolution wished to identify causes of dissent and disagreement. We thought that illumination of the facts might remove difficulty. The proposals to make everything transparent address our major issues with the Bill. Others might have said this already, but this seems to be a major step forward from the Government, indicating that they are prepared to consider the work of a Select Committee and take onboard its non-partisan points. My Committee colleague, the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), is present. I understand that the Committee is the high point of her week—she has said that to me and my colleagues several times—and I hope that she has made these points as well.

[Michael Moore]

I hope that the difficulties to which the hon. Gentleman referred are sorted out quickly. I thank him and his Committee for their work and for his observation that the amendment resolves one of the central issues that he was anxious about. We assured him at the time that we wanted to ensure transparency and a proper ability for scrutiny. The report will be the basis of that, and I look forward to discussing the matter with him further at the appropriate moment.