Judgment in Wilson/Reilly Case

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Tuesday 12th February 2013

(11 years, 4 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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The Court of Appeal has today ruled that the Government’s back to work schemes do not breach article 4 of the European convention on human rights.

While the judgment supports the principle and policy of our employment schemes, and acknowledges the care and resources we have dedicated to implementing them, the Court of Appeal has ruled that the Jobseeker’s Allowance (Employment, Skills and Enterprise) Regulations 2011 (“the ESE regulations”) do not describe the employment schemes to which they apply, as is required by the primary legislation. The Court of Appeal has therefore held the ESE regulations to be ultra vires and quashed them.

We are seeking permission to appeal against the Court of Appeal’s judgment and, if permission is granted, we will take our case to the Supreme Court. As we are currently seeking permission to appeal, claimants who have already served a sanction will not be able to appeal on the basis of the Court’s decision until our appeal is heard. We are considering a range of options to ensure we do not have to repay these sanctions.

Today we intend to lay new regulations, which will come into force immediately and enable us to continue to refer jobseekers allowance claimants to our employment schemes and to provide the best chance for people to find employment.

International Labour Conference

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Thursday 7th February 2013

(11 years, 4 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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The 101st session of the International Labour Conference 2012 adopted recommendation 202 concerning national floors of social protection. International Labour Organisation (ILO) recommendations, adopted following negotiation among ILO member state Governments and business and union representatives, serve as non-binding guidelines. The Government welcome this recommendation and recognise its importance in its global context, as it acts as a guide for all countries in their work towards providing basic social protection for their populations. The recommendation is primarily aimed at those countries with less developed social security systems. It is not envisaged that this recommendation will have any impact on the UK as it is consistent with UK Government policies.

The constitution of the ILO requires that the Government bring the recommendation before Parliament. I will place an explanatory memorandum and the text of the recommendation in the House Libraries later today.

Universal Credit (Wales)

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Tuesday 5th February 2013

(11 years, 4 months ago)

Westminster Hall
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Westminster Hall is an alternative Chamber for MPs to hold debates, named after the adjoining Westminster Hall.

Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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I congratulate the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) on securing the debate. He raised some important issues, but I counsel some caution. It is easy to create uncertainty among constituents by mentioning such stories in a way that is not balanced and does not reflect the support that will be in place. He actually identified the answer to his problems in one of the quotes he gave from a housing association about the additional work that it will do to help to support its tenants, such as jam jar bank accounts and additional support for budgeting, both of which we intend to deliver. The support around the introduction of universal credit will not only make the transition easier but improve families’ quality of life and financial stability. He should not overlook the beneficial impact that the proposal will have in improving financial capability.

Hywel Williams Portrait Hywel Williams
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Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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I have 12 minutes and many questions to answer in that time, and I want to correct some of the misapprehensions and misunderstandings that have been raised in the debate.

Universal credit is a cornerstone of the Government’s welfare reform programme, and it will simplify the benefit system and tackle welfare dependency by making work pay. Our aim is to offer seamless support for people making the transition into work. No longer will people find themselves in the absurd position where their benefit is disrupted the moment that they start work. Our reforms will ensure that people are better off in work than they are on benefits.

In Wales, we estimate that once universal credit is fully up and running some 200,000 households will be eligible for higher payments under it, typically seeing an increase of almost £160 per month, and we also estimate that the proportion of people in Wales who would stand to lose more than 70% of their increased earnings by moving into work for 10 hours a week will reduce under universal credit from 32%—as it is under the system we have inherited from the previous Government —to 3%. That is why delivering this reform is important for the people of Wales. It will make people better off in work, it will make work pay and it will reduce the risks involved in taking up work or doing more work.

Let me deal with some of the specific concerns that have been expressed. The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth raised the issue about benefits being paid in arrears on a monthly basis. It is important that the new system is designed around the patterns of modern working life. Given that three quarters of the employed population are already paid on a monthly basis, receiving payments monthly will be something that people are familiar with when we move to universal credit.

Of course we recognise that some people may struggle to budget, and we are making provision to ensure that they do not fall through the cracks. We are working with banks and credit unions, such as the ones the hon. Gentleman quoted, to explore suitable financial products that may help people to budget and to put money by each month to fulfil their responsibilities to pay their rent and other household bills. Around 4.2 million Department for Work and Pensions claimants already have a bank account. We know that historically some people on a low income have experienced difficulties in accessing and using banking products. We want to ensure that claimants have access to a basic bank account with safe and secure standing order and direct debit facilities.

Let me move on to the point that was made about online services. As the hon. Gentleman indicated, the service will be online. We want people to be able to make a claim and to report changes, as they would with online banking. If people are going to participate effectively in today’s modern labour market, they will have to be conversant with digital tools. In the words of Lord Freud, digitisation is a “social imperative”. Of course we can and must do more to ensure that people can access services online. We do not want the digital divide in his constituency and others to persist. We must tackle it and this process is a very good way of tackling it. I am surprised that Opposition Members are so resistant to the actions that we can take to help tackle that digital divide and improve social inclusion.

We are already looking at some of the local authority pilots that have been carried out. Two of them are in Wales, with one in Caerphilly and one in Newport. The pilots are helping us to understand what support we need to give to help people to move into universal credit. We will use the pilots to learn the lessons, and we will apply them as we develop future stages of delivering universal credit, because we have ambitious targets for digital take-up of our services.

Stephen Doughty Portrait Stephen Doughty
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Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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No, I will not give way. The hon. Gentleman had more than his fair share of time, so let me try to deal with more of the questions that he put.

The hon. Gentleman talked about this project being behind schedule. I have no idea where he got that idea from. The programme is not behind schedule; it is actually on time. I counsel him, and he will learn this more as he is in this House, never to believe what he reads in the paper. The programme is on time and on schedule. The first stage will start at the end of April in the pathfinder area in Greater Manchester and the north-west, and the programme will continue to roll out nationally.

The hon. Gentleman rightly made a point about the failure of previous Governments to deliver big IT projects on time. We saw that under the previous Government. I think that all of us in this House who have had to work with the complexity of tax credits on behalf of our constituents will recognise the failure of that system and the problems that it created for our constituents.

The way that we are working through the implementation of this programme is through our pathfinder approach, which enables us to proceed with implementation in phases. It is an approach that we have used in other large programmes. For example, in the new child maintenance scheme we have used the pathfinder process. In implementing the personal independence payment, which replaces the disability living allowance, we will begin with a few thousand new claims in April, before rolling it out. So the staged and methodical approach that we take to rolling out programmes—“prove before you move”—means that we will fully implement a change once we are satisfied from experience in a live environment that it is safe to do so.

That is why we are rolling out the pathfinder in April in Greater Manchester and Cheshire, to allow us time to test during this period and with a view to successful implementation nationally later this year. This thoughtful and considered approach to rolling out is important. It will ensure that we test the operation to run universal credit; the people capabilities required to support the service; communications; implementation; the behaviour of claimants; and how to ensure that we respond effectively to unintended consequences.

Let me touch on direct payments. I understand the concerns about the payment of housing costs directly to claimants, but we remain of the view that paying housing costs directly is an important way of helping people to manage their own finances and to become more independent. The emerging evidence from the demonstration projects, including the one in Torfaen, does not suggest that large numbers of claimants will suddenly fall into arrears. On the contrary, because the take-on of claims is going to be gradual—over a period of years—there will be no big bang effect, and there is no real evidence of any likely sudden impact on landlords’ incomes.

There will be lessons to learn from those projects, and we will continue to monitor the position very carefully. They will enable us to test trigger points at different levels of arrears, so that if a tenant does fall behind with their rent, action can be taken, including—if necessary—switching back payment to the landlord for a period and offering additional support to the tenant.

We should treat people receiving universal credit as adults. We should encourage them to stand on their own two feet and to manage their money as others manage their money, particularly as they will have to do so as they move into a situation where they increase their earnings. Nevertheless, the support mechanisms that are in place are very important. They give landlords a real incentive to work with their tenants around employment issues to help them into work, and encourage landlords to work more closely with their tenants to understand their financial capabilities and what support might be needed. We should not infantilise universal credit recipients in the way that Opposition Members seem to be suggesting.

There has also been discussion about local support services. We are working in partnership with local authority associations, including the Welsh Local Government Association, on a local support services framework. That will ensure that effective local partnerships are put in place to help claimants with getting online and to learn how to manage their household budgets. As I said earlier, we will learn a great deal from the pathfinder phase of universal credit.

To ensure that we have taken into account the concerns of authorities in Wales, Wales is also represented in the development of the universal credit across a number of forums, pilots and projects, including a senior stakeholder group, a local authority transitional working group, a local authority finance and commercial group, a local support services taskforce, a direct payment demonstration project and local authority-led pilots.

Let me say just a little more about the pilots. We are currently running 12 local authority-led pilots and we aim to conclude those by the end of September. The aim of the pilots is to test and inform the development of a face-to-face delivery model. The pilots will provide important practical lessons on delivering services in an innovative way at the local level, including triage, which is working with claimants to identify their needs, how those needs can be met and where support can be accessed locally; improving online access, so that we can get more claimants using online resources and, where they cannot use them, providing assisted support to get online locally at libraries, community centres and other community buildings where personal computers may be accessible; budgeting support, so that people can manage their finances independently; and, of course, all underpinned with a work focus, to help claimants to find work and stay in work through a range of training and support networks. We have been working very closely with local authorities on a framework for delivering local support to those who need it, and we will announce further details of this very shortly.

We recognise the valid point that the hon. Gentleman made about ensuring that support is available at a local level. It is in none of our interests for claimants of universal credit to be left high and dry. That is why we are working to ensure that the support is in place, whether it is about getting online, debt advice, managing money, or setting up the right bank account or jam jar account to enable people to manage their money. We want to provide the infrastructure around universal credit to help claimants.

By doing it that way, and focusing on how we tackle those problems rather than simply throwing our hands up in horror and saying that it is all doomed to fail, we will provide the right outcomes for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and for mine. That is because it is absolutely right that we do all we can to ensure that people know that work pays, that people in Wales will be better off as a consequence of the introduction of universal credit and that people do not see the disruption that happens at the moment when they move from out-of-work benefits to in-work benefits. The system is here to ensure that people understand that it is better to work than not to work, and better to earn more than to earn less. There will not be the situation that many people are in now, of having to turn down bonuses from their employers because it does not work with the benefit system. We need to tackle some of the problems of the past, to give our people hope for the future.

Work Capability Assessment (Cancer Treatment)

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Monday 28th January 2013

(11 years, 5 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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Today we are implementing further changes to the Work Capability Assessment to improve the way in which it assesses the effect of cancer treatment.

Following extensive work with Professor Harrington, Macmillan Cancer Support, the Royal College of Radiologists and others we are now further improving the way we assess cancer patients.

The resulting changes will mean that hundreds more people who are awaiting, receiving, or recovering from any form of chemotherapy or radiotherapy for cancer will be placed in the support group for employment and support allowance where they will get the support they need while unable to work.

We strongly support the principle of the Work Capability Assessment and are committed to continuously improving the assessment process to ensure it is as fair and as accurate as possible. As part of the programme of continuous improvement of the Work Capability Assessment, today we are also making a number of amendments to the assessment and to the description of certain activities and descriptors. These changes do not represent changes in policy. Rather they are intended to clarify areas which are open to misunderstanding. They will make the process easier to understand for claimants and assessors.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Monday 28th January 2013

(11 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
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19. What steps his Department is taking to support people who want to start their own business.

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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We believe that for many people self-employment is the best route out of unemployment. That is why we have introduced the new enterprise allowance and enterprise clubs, which have proved effective in helping people back into work.

Tobias Ellwood Portrait Mr Ellwood
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Tourism is obviously a key industry in Bournemouth, but the digital economy is now the fastest-growing sector thanks to the work of Bournemouth university—so much so that Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole are now getting the nickname of the silicon beach of England. What more can be done to harness that interest and expertise through incubator units and start-ups?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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My hon. Friend makes an important point. We should be capitalising on the skills of graduates of Bournemouth university to ensure that the digital economy spreads throughout the UK, including to silicon beach. I urge him to talk to his local council and to others to see what opportunities there are to bring forward premises that could be used for self-employment.

Michael Fabricant Portrait Michael Fabricant
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Unemployment in Lichfield was running at 2.6 % in December, but that is still not good enough. What are the Government doing to provide an enterprise culture in practice, and how many people has my hon. Friend managed to get starting new businesses?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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My hon. Friend will be aware that in Lichfield, 30 claimants have started with a business mentor. That has led to 20 businesses starting already. Some 8,000 new businesses have been started as a consequence of the new enterprise allowance, and I am pleased to announce that we are going to extend the availability of the new enterprise allowance to lone parents on income support and to some employment and support allowance claimants, because they are the sort of people who would be able to benefit from the new enterprise allowance and combine their existing responsibilities with starting a business for themselves.

Barry Sheerman Portrait Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
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May I push the Minister on what is happening to people who want to start their own business if they pitch up at Jobcentre Plus? Is it not a scandal, the way that Jobcentre Plus recycles people? Giving them a job for one day removes the onus of finding them anything, such as starting their own business, or referring them to the Work programme. There is a tension between what is happening in Jobcentre Plus and what is happening in the Work programmes that does nobody any good.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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To answer the hon. Gentleman’s question about enterprise, when someone first makes a claim for jobseeker’s allowance, advisers talk to them and ask them whether they have an idea for a new business. Where they have a credible plan, they can be referred to a mentor, who will work with them to develop that business plan which, if successful, can lead to the new enterprise allowance. We see the importance of small businesses and of getting new start-ups going. Both the Work programme and Jobcentre Plus are focused on how they can help people set up a business themselves and start to recruit others.

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
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Unfortunately, unemployment in the Rhondda is still growing. The figures for last November are higher than they were for the November before. One of the difficulties is that many of the people who have enough get up and go to set up a company get up and go elsewhere. How can we make sure that geographically isolated communities such as the Rhondda have a strong enough local economy for local entrepreneurs to prosper?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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That is why measures such as the Work programme and the new enterprise allowance help lay those foundations. We need to see businesses moving to places such as the Rhondda and south Wales. I went to Swansea before Christmas to see the work that Amazon is doing there to boost employment in the local community—[Interruption.] Opposition Members may mock, but that created job opportunities that people would not otherwise have had.

Jackie Doyle-Price Portrait Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con)
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3. Whether he plans to phase the introduction of the benefit cap.

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Grahame Morris Portrait Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
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9. What estimate he has made of trends in the number of people in Easington constituency claiming jobseeker’s allowance in 2013.

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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About 3,400 people in Easington are currently claiming jobseeker’s allowance, which is up 340 on the year, but last week we saw a fall in the number of people in the north-east claiming JSA. Since the general election, there has been an increase of 35,000 in the number of people in work in the north-east.

Grahame Morris Portrait Grahame M. Morris
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The Government have stopped publishing the number of unemployed people in each constituency chasing each vacancy. As I have impressed on Ministers before, and I will say it again, the issue for us in Easington, unlike in Lichfield, is joblessness—a lack of jobs. Will the Minister give consideration to publishing those data, which would be useful to potential employers and inward investors?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. I was born and brought up in his constituency, so I well understand the challenges that Easington faces. We do want to encourage more people to invest in the area, and that is why I am keen to commend the work that has been done with the East Durham area partnership to encourage more people into work in Easington. We will look at how we can recommence publication of vacancy statistics shortly.

Stephen Timms Portrait Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
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Ministers often say that they have stopped people on Government schemes appearing in the labour market statistics as “in employment”. But recent analysis shows that of the claimed 500,000 increase in employment over the past 12 months, 214,000 people are in fact on Government schemes and mostly still claiming JSA. What is going on?

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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The question is exclusively on Easington, but the right hon. Gentleman has made his own point with delphic confidence.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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What is happening—and it happened under the previous Government—is that these figures are drawn up in line with international rules. I agree with him that it is inappropriate, and that is why I wrote several months ago to the Office for National Statistics to ask it to change that. Only one in 20 of the additional jobs created since the general election are down to Government schemes, and the right hon. Gentleman should be commending the number of private sector jobs being created that have helped people get back into work. That is why we have record numbers of people in work.

Stephen Hepburn Portrait Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)
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12. What assessment he has made of the potential effect on low-income families of planned changes to housing benefit eligibility in respect of under-occupancy in the social rented sector.

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Emma Reynolds Portrait Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)
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14. What steps he is taking to address long-term unemployment.

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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There are a range of measures in place to tackle long-term unemployment, including the Work programme. Last week’s unemployment figures show a fall of 5,000 in the number of people who have been unemployed for more than a year, and a fall of 10,000 in the number of people who have been unemployed for more than two years.

Emma Reynolds Portrait Emma Reynolds
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According to the House of Commons Library, there has been a 45% increase in the number of people unemployed over the last 12 months. When will the Government get a grip on this issue, and why will they not take up Labour’s compulsory jobs guarantee?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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When the hon. Lady’s party was in government, the number of people in long-term unemployment doubled, but this month we have seen a reduction in the numbers of people unemployed for more than one year and for more than two years. I would have thought she would be welcome that. It demonstrates that ours are the right actions to tackle the problems of long-term unemployment.

Margot James Portrait Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)
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Employment in the west midlands has increased by 4.3% in the past 12 months and the average time spent on jobseeker’s allowance is just three months. What can my hon. Friend do to bring all Work programme providers up to the standard of the best providers, such as EOS in the black country?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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I, too, have seen the excellent work that EOS does to improve people’s chances of getting into work—it has some innovative programmes—and I am relentless in pushing Work programme providers to improve their performance so that we get people into work. Last month’s unemployment figures are testament to the benefits of our actions.

Catherine McKinnell Portrait Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)
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T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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Caroline Dinenage Portrait Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
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T2. Given that one in six of the adult population is functionally illiterate, what training is provided to jobcentre staff to help identify and signpost adults with literacy issues?

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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My hon. Friend makes an important point: poor literacy and numeracy are big barriers to employment. For that reason, personal advisers in jobcentres are trained to identify signs and to signpost people to appropriate course providers. Fareham college in the constituency adjacent to hers is one such provider, but I am sure there are other local providers.

Liam Byrne Portrait Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)
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The Minister will have read about the cases of Becky Bell raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) and of Angel Hooper, the disabled child whose parents have been told that they will lose £20 a week because her specially adapted room will not be shared with another family member. They are two of the 660,000 families being told they will have to fork out extra or move under the bedroom tax. Will he confirm how many one-bedroom properties will be needed for people to downsize to as the bedroom tax kicks in?

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Phillip Lee Portrait Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)
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Last Friday, I visited the A4e offices in Bracknell, and it was encouraging to hear the staff there giving support to my constituents who were seeking to set up their own business. In addition to providing that support, what are the Government doing to extend the availability of new enterprise allowances so that more people in my constituency can start their own business?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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I am delighted that my hon. Friend has seen for himself the work that A4e is doing in Bracknell. We need more people to have the opportunity to set up their own business, particularly lone parents and those with health conditions. That is why I am pleased to announce that we are extending the availability of the new enterprise allowance to lone parents who receive income support and to some employment and support allowance claimants.

Lindsay Roy Portrait Lindsay Roy (Glenrothes) (Lab)
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T8. As several of my hon. Friends have already said, almost 500,000 women aged between 59 and 60 will not qualify for the new state pension while men of the same age will do so. How does the Minister justify penalising 700 such women in my constituency in that way?

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Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight the fact that there are more women in work than ever before. That is testament to the flexibility of the labour market, which allows more women to work, either part time or full time.

Teresa Pearce Portrait Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)
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T9. Given the inability of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to write to all parents affected by the recent child benefit changes, I have serious concerns about the real-time information that will need to be delivered if universal credit is going to work and succeed. In September, the Minister for Welfare Reform, Lord Freud, said that 99.8% of the data sent by employers had been matched, yet a parliamentary answer from the Exchequer Secretary on 17 December revealed data from the same month showing that only 71% had been matched. Which Minister has got it right?

Sickness Absence

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Thursday 17th January 2013

(11 years, 5 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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Today the Government will publish a Command Paper giving their response to the independent review of sickness absence in Great Britain carried out by Dame Carol Black and David Frost. We are setting out a new strategy which will help people to stay in work, support employers to manage attendance more effectively, and reduce the number of people falling needlessly on to sickness benefits.

The review identified structural failings in the current system, which typically offers little support to either employees or employers in the early stages of sickness absence and brings significant state resources to bear only once the individual has become detached from the labour market and significant damage has been done to their future employability.



Our response sets out new measures to support employers, employees and healthcare professionals to minimise avoidable absences and keep more people attached to the labour market. We expect this to yield significant benefits for individuals, employers and the state.

At the centre of our approach is a new state-funded service which will carry out an independent assessment of employees after four weeks of sickness absence and provide advice to the employee, employer and GP. This service will be funded by the abolition of the percentage threshold scheme, which currently reimburses some elements of statutory sick pay but does nothing to encourage employers to reduce it. We agree with the reviewers that existing resources would be better used to support employers to manage sickness absence more effectively.

We will also support employers by retaining existing tax relief on employee assistance programmes and abolishing statutory record-keeping requirements for statutory sick pay. We will consider the introduction of a tax relief on interventions recommended by the new service, and make a decision at the 2013 Budget.

The response sets out how we will use the opportunity provided by wider reform of the welfare system to address the problems the reviewers identified with the way the current benefit system treats people with health or sickness issues. Under universal credit we will ensure that people receive appropriate support to assist their return to work from the start of their claim rather than waiting until they have undergone a work capability assessment. And we will use the universal jobmatch system to help people who are unable to return to their old job due to health issues to find more suitable employment.

The response also announces measures to strengthen sickness absence management within the public sector, following the progress made by the civil service in reducing absence and reviewing the terms of occupational sick pay policies. We will continue to work with public sector employers to bring transparency and accountability to the management of sickness absence.

The response has been informed by close working across Government and the devolved Administrations and input from employers, employee organisations and health care professionals across the country, who have all made an important contribution to the development of these proposals.

Atos Work Capability Assessments

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Thursday 17th January 2013

(11 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Heather Wheeler Portrait Heather Wheeler
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I am sure the Minister has heard every word that the hon. Lady said.

I finish on two final points because time is short and many people want to speak. People have mentioned the tick-box nature of the interview; my constituents find it hugely frustrating that they cannot expand on an answer. After all this time, perhaps the interview process could be tweaked to allow that. My last point is about the absolute frustration of GPs and consultants who feel that no account whatever is taken of the fact that they take their time to write the letters. That is desperately frustrating and a huge waste of public money.

Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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We do ask GPs and consultants to provide medical evidence; we send a form to them. Only 37% of those are returned in time.

Heather Wheeler Portrait Heather Wheeler
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I thank the Minister for putting that on the record. I will gladly go back to my GPs and consultants and say that they will be taken into account if they please return the forms on time.

I will finish now, because many hon. Members want to get in. I am delighted that we are having this debate because I genuinely feel that there is an opportunity to get the issue right. The people deserve it.

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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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I also congratulate the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) on securing this helpful debate. It gives me the opportunity to address some of the concerns expressed on both sides of the House about this process.

“For too long, too many long-term sick and disabled people have been written off by the welfare system to a life of dependency, entirely reliant on benefit and devoid of experience of the labour market.”—[Official Report, 9 January 2007; Vol. 455, c. 246.]

Those were not my words, but the words of the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) when he was employment Minister on Third Reading of the Welfare Reform Bill in January 2007. The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) was a DWP Minister at the tail end of the previous Government, so I am sure she made her concerns known at that time to her ministerial colleagues—or perhaps not. This measure was introduced by the previous Government. The argument of the right hon. Member for East Renfrewshire was right then, and it is right now.

Helen Goodman Portrait Helen Goodman
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Government Members are constantly asking Opposition Members to say sorry. Actually, about the way this has run, I am sorry.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I welcome the hon. Lady’s candour. It would be good if more of her colleagues expressed similar candour.

One aspect of the Welfare Reform Act 2007 that has been referred to frequently throughout the debate is the establishment of the independent annual review. The last three have been undertaken by Professor Harrington, a distinguished occupational physician. What evidence has he put forward? In his first report, he stated that he did

“not believe that the system is broken or beyond repair”.

In his second report, he noted that the WCA had

“noticeably changed for the better”,

and in his third report, he said that

“real progress has been made”

and stressed that

things are beginning to change positively in the best interests of the individual.”

It is important not to lose sight of that.

David Anderson Portrait Mr Anderson
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I want to make a bit more progress, because a lot of detailed points were raised and I want to address as many of them as possible.

Despite the improvement, it is clear—today’s debate reinforces this—that the WCA continues to generate heartfelt and passionately held views, but some of the worry experienced by claimants is a result of adverse media coverage and risks being fuelled by incorrect anecdotal information and—indeed—total myth. We have heard some of those myths today, and I want to set the record straight. This is an opportunity to address the facts behind the process and to set out what is happening in the Atos process.

Several hon. Members suggested that Atos had targets for finding people fit for work or placing them in a particular group. Let me be absolutely clear—let nobody in or beyond the House be in any doubt—there are no such targets. There are no targets for who should be put into which group. Instead—hon. Members would want this—there are quality-control checks. We want the right decisions to be made for our constituents and we want to ensure consistency between physicians and practitioners, and assessment centres. That quality control —saying that we should all be familiar with things we do and come across in our daily life—is not the same as a target. Atos has no targets to recommend that people go in particular groups.

Cheryl Gillan Portrait Mrs Gillan
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful for that assurance, because it is a matter of great concern. Will the Minister go a step further and say whether he is aware of any internal targets? Will he give us an assurance that there are no internal targets at Atos?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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There is nothing in the contract with Atos to suggest that there should be any targets for whom they recommend gets placed in particular groups. I want to be absolutely clear: there no targets and it is absolutely right that there should be no targets, because what all of us want, whichever side of the debate we are on, is to ensure that we get the right people in the right groups for the right support. We cannot do that with targets. We have to treat everyone individually. That is the dignity that we should accord the people going through the process. They should know that they are going to be treated with dignity. There are no preconceived targets.

Julie Hilling Portrait Julie Hilling
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The question then is not whether the Government are putting targets in place, but whether the Minister is 100% convinced that Atos does not set targets for any of its work force in any way, because that does not seem to be the evidence coming out. Is he utterly convinced about that and if not, will he investigate whether that is the case?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

We have these discussions; there are no targets in the system. Indeed, the proportion of people who have been placed in the support group has doubled. To my mind, that suggests that there are no targets—it is very clear evidence of that.

Natascha Engel Portrait Natascha Engel
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

No, I am not going to give way. I want to make some more progress and the hon. Lady raised some questions that I want to address.

It has also been suggested that Atos health care professionals make decisions on benefit entitlement. They do not. Those decisions are made by DWP decision makers. They take the ESA50—the form people complete when making an ESA claim—any further medical evidence produced by a GP, consultant or health practitioner with whom the claimant is working, and the Atos assessment, but they look at all that evidence. The decision is made by DWP decision makers, not Atos. That is why there are a number of cases where the DWP decision maker’s decision has been different from any recommendation made by Atos. It is up to the DWP—the decision is made by the Department, not Atos—to decide who goes into which group.

Pamela Nash Portrait Pamela Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

Let me make a bit more progress.

People say that the number of appeals overturned at tribunal is evidence of poor Atos reports—a point raised by the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore). When we asked judges why they overturned DWP decisions, they said that an error in the Atos assessment was the primary reason for an overturn in only 0.3% of cases. However, although it happens very rarely, I agree with her on one point: I would like to get more information from the judges.

Iain Wright Portrait Mr Iain Wright
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

You’re a Minister!

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

The hon. Gentleman says that I am a Minister, but the judges are independent—one of the strengths of our system. I hope that the judges have heard the comments that have been made—not only in this debate, but in other debates—about the need for more detail. To get the system right we need better feedback from the judges, but let us not forget that where we ask judges for the reason for an overturn, in a large proportion of cases they say it is the presentation of fresh evidence. They are very explicit in saying that the primary reason for overturn in only 0.3% of cases is the Atos assessment.

Sheila Gilmore Portrait Sheila Gilmore
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, because this is an important point, especially as it has been briefed on so often. What I want to know—the Minister has to ask this question too—is this. I suspect that the question of overturns is simply one of some fairly simple error in the form, but according to the same judges, in 40% of cases they made their decision because they disagreed with the presentation of the case. That still suggests something wrong with the initial assessments—whether because the people concerned did not present them well or because the Atos assessors rushed them through. In 40% of cases the judges came to a different decision.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

Just because the statistics do not suit the hon. Lady’s argument does not mean that they are wrong. A lot of this debate is about constituency casework and experience. Sometimes we also need to look at the overall stats and figures behind this issue to put those cases in context, which is why I made the point about the overturn rate.

It has been suggested that GPs should make the assessment. The British Medical Association has been prayed in aid. Let me quote what the BMA said about that idea:

“However, it is not part of the GP’s role to provide any opinion…on the patient’s capability to work as part of this process. It is vital that these two roles are kept separate and that GPs are not asked to provide an opinion on their patient for the purpose of receiving the Employment and Support Allowance; doing so could damage the doctor-patient relationship.”

It has also been said that the work capability assessment does not take full account of mental health conditions. Let me say a bit about that important issue. We have sought to improve the process and the support for the health care professionals who are undertaking the assessments. All Atos health care professionals receive specific and additional training in assessing mental health conditions—

Kevan Jones Portrait Mr Kevan Jones
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

No, I am going to continue.

Kevan Jones Portrait Mr Jones
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

You are talking rubbish, that’s why.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

We do ensure that those professionals receive the support that they need to assess those conditions.

Following Professor Harrington’s recommendation, Atos has 60 mental health function champions in place to spread best practice. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) asked whether they had specific training in autism. I can assure her that that is the case. She also asked, as did other hon. Members, whether we could review the effectiveness of the mental health champions. It is not for me to dictate the work that Professor Harrington’s successor will undertake as part of the fourth review, but I think that that is a good suggestion. We need to look at the effectiveness of the recommendations that Professor Harrington has made.

David Anderson Portrait Mr Anderson
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I am going to make some progress, as I have only a few minutes left to speak before the next debate starts.

In March 2011, we also implemented the recommendations of a Department-led review of the work capability assessment, which included the expansion of the support group to cover more people with certain communication problems and severe disability due to mental health conditions.

Hon. Members have suggested that the assessment does not take account of fluctuating conditions, but that is not the case. It gives people with a fluctuating condition the opportunity to explain how their condition varies over time. It is not a tick-box assessment, as some have suggested. There is a discussion between the health care professional and the person making the claim for ESA to determine how their condition varies over time. The questionnaire that customers are sent has been redesigned for that purpose, and people are now asked to give more details about how their fluctuating condition affects them as an individual. If a person cannot carry out a function repeatedly and reliably, they will be treated as unable to carry out that function at all. We all recognise that the capacity of people with a fluctuating condition can change, and it is important that proper regard should be given to that fact.

I want to pick up on a point made by the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms). We have committed to a review of the descriptors for fluctuating conditions, and we are working closely with charities on that. We also need to ensure that any new descriptors are as good as, or better than, the existing ones, for the purpose of assessing someone’s condition. That work is going on at the moment.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I know that the right hon. Gentleman is keen to find out when that review will be published, but let me just say this. We want to make changes, if there is evidence to support such changes, and we need to ensure that that evidence is gathered and evaluated. I am as keen as he is to ensure that changes are made as quickly as possible, and that we make the right changes and the best changes to improve the process. I am not in any way seeking to delay the process—we want to ensure that it happens—but we have had to work quite hard to get the right descriptors that will provide the evidence on functional ability, and we are now assessing them.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I will not give way. I have only three or four minutes left and there is a bit more to say.

Some criticism has been made of Atos, with suggestions that—

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Order. The Minister is most courteously attending to the issues, and he refers to three or four minutes. I know that he will be leaving at least two, if not three, minutes for the right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) to wind up at the end. I think that we are clear on that.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I am, Mr Speaker. I am aiming to finish at 2.58 to allow the right hon. Gentleman his two minutes. I would quite happily continue for longer, but I know another debate is to follow in which hon. Members are also interested and another time limit applies.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I have only four minutes left and I want to address some more questions.

Let me deal with the issue of Atos’s capability. Atos deals with 100,000 cases every month and it consistency meets the quality thresholds. Only 3.6% of assessments are below standard compared with a threshold of 5%. It receives complaints about only 0.6% of assessments. DWP decision makers return to Atos assessments that are inadequate for reaching a decision in only 0.2% of cases.

The hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) asked about the appeal rates. Let me be clear about the rate of successful appeals. Of all the fit-for-work decisions taken by the Department, only 15% are overturned on appeal. Only 15% of all the decisions we take, then, are overturned on appeal, which I think demonstrates that while we need to ensure that there is a proper appeals process, we should not be bandying around figures that misrepresent the level of successful appeals.

Natascha Engel Portrait Natascha Engel
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

No. I have two minutes left and I want to make some more comments.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) talked about quality. The tribunal service can refer substandard reports back to Atos as an appeal for further action. It has exercised that right only 23 times in the past year. Rigorous checks are in place to ensure that quality applies.

Much has been said about employment and support allowance not working—that is untrue. What we are seeing is people coming off ESA and getting into work. The number of working-age people on ESA and incapacity benefit in February 2012 was 2.56 million—the lowest level since the introduction of IB in 1995. Early estimates to September 2012 suggest that overall numbers for this benefit are falling and will for the first time be below 2.5 million.

Finally, although there are many other myths, the last one I shall address today is the myth that the WSA is not fit for purpose. Professor Harrington has made it quite clear that the WSA, designed as a first positive step for work, is the right concept for assessing people who need our support. There is a need to improve it. No one doubts that, which is why we have implemented Professor Harrington’s recommendations. The assessment we inherited needed refinement. That is why we accepted and have largely implemented more than 40 of his recommendations over the past two years. That is why twice as many people have gone into the support group in comparison with when ESA was introduced.

Overall, the proportion of people with mental health conditions being awarded ESA has risen from 33% to 49%. We are seeing improvements and more will be introduced later this month on the categories of cancer treatment that allow people to go straight into the work-related activity group. These changes are happening. We should recognise that change is important and that it is happening. This is the right approach; demonising the work capability assessment does not help our constituents and does not address their concerns.

Fund for European Aid to the Most Deprived

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Tuesday 18th December 2012

(11 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Read Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
- Hansard - -

I beg to move,

That this House considers that the draft Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on the Fund for European Aid to the Most Deprived (European Union Document No. 15865/12 and Addenda 1 and 2) does not comply with the principle of subsidiarity for the reasons set out in Chapter 3 of the Twenty-second Report of the European Scrutiny Committee (HC 86-xxii); and in accordance with Article 6 of Protocol (No. 2) of the Lisbon Treaty on the application of the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality, instructs the Clerk of the House to forward this reasoned opinion to the presidents of the European institutions.

This is the third time that I have moved a motion on this issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), the Chairman of the European Scrutiny Committee, is the inspiration behind this motion and I am pleased to support it. I welcome the ESC’s report on the European Commission’s proposal and I am pleased to have the opportunity to discuss it on the Floor of the House.

The Government share the Committee’s view that the Commission’s proposal is not consistent with the principle of subsidiarity. The proposal would establish a new instrument: the fund for European aid for the most deprived. It is intended to replace, from 2014, the European Union’s food distribution programme for the most deprived people. The current programme distributes food stocks such as butter, milk powder, beef, sugar, rice and cereals, and in 2012 the budget has a ceiling of €500 million.

At present, 20 of the 27 member states participate. The main recipients are Italy, Spain, Poland, France and Romania. The UK has not participated since 1998, after which the previous Administration withdrew from the scheme. Both this Government and the previous Administration have opposed Commission proposals since 2008 to extend the programme and expand its social dimension. The UK has consistently set out its concern that the programme does not comply with subsidiarity.

Nothing in the Commission’s proposals changes our position. As the Committee points out eloquently in its report, the Commission has not provided a convincing justification of the need for EU action. Indeed, in many ways the new proposal is even more objectionable than the current programme. It will be used not only to provide food aid, but to purchase and distribute basic consumer goods. Whereas the current scheme is optional, the new scheme will be obligatory on member states and they will be required to provide match funding of at least 15% of the costs.

Stephen Timms Portrait Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I understand the Minister’s case that this could perfectly well be undertaken by national Governments, but do the Government intend to give any help to the network of food banks that is growing at a rate of, I think, three a week up and down the country and for which there is a clear need?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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Food banks are undertaken by the voluntary sector. I will come on to the ways in which the Government provide support to people on low incomes or who are benefit recipients, in order to demonstrate why we do not believe that this EU programme is right. Our principal objection, of course, is one of subsidiarity, echoing the ESC’s comments, but also reflecting the previous Government’s stance when they withdrew from the scheme.

Luciana Berger Portrait Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

To pick up on the Minister’s point that the voluntary sector makes a choice to step in, we now have up to 300 food banks across the country under the umbrella of the Trussell Trust, which estimates that it will have fed about 250,000 people in our country by the end of this financial year. Does he think that it is right that the voluntary sector has to step in to provide people in this country with emergency food aid?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

The hon. Lady is a prolific tabler of questions on this matter and I have answered one or two for her today. This initiative is undertaken by the voluntary sector. The previous Government ignored the existence of food banks. Even at the height of the recession, when long-term unemployment doubled, the previous Government simply ignored them and pretended that they were not there. This Government acknowledge the existence of food banks. They play an important role and enable people on low incomes to get food, toiletries and other basic needs, and to use their incomes or benefits for other purposes. We also signpost people to food banks, but what nobody has done yet—this point has been made on a number of occasions—is analyse who uses food banks and why.

Stephen Timms Portrait Stephen Timms
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I want to make progress. This debate is about European proposals to spend taxpayers’ money and, if I remember rightly, the Labour party seems very keen to reduce the EU budget. We look forward to hearing what the right hon. Gentleman has to say. I do not know whether he is suggesting that we should enter this programme and that he supports obligatory participation. Perhaps he will clarify his position now.

Stephen Timms Portrait Stephen Timms
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Does the Minister accept that the number of people using food banks is bound to go up further in the coming 12 months?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I am not going to predict that. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman has missed what has been happening recently. He should recognise that there are record numbers of people in work and that unemployment is falling. The number of people on out-of-work benefits has fallen by 199,000 since May 2010. I am not going to engage in making predictions, but I would have thought that he celebrates the fact that more people can look after their own families and that more people who want to work are getting into work, meeting that basic aspiration that we all want people to share.

The right hon. Gentleman did not say whether his party will sign up to the Commission’s proposal and whether they want to spend more taxpayers’ money in Europe. Hopefully he will mention that in his remarks.

John Redwood Portrait Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I congratulate the Minister on taking a firm line on this matter. I am glad that he is opposing this regulation. I notice that all matters have to be accounted in euros, which does not seem to be appropriate for a country that still has its own currency. What does he think the outcome is likely to be in the debates and discussions in which he puts our case?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

At the moment, discussions are taking place in the working groups. One discussion has taken place so far and I believe that there will be another in the new year. There is currently a blocking minority that is opposed to the regulation. A number of member states that are concerned about the EU budget and the multi-annual financial framework are keen to oppose the proposal. Of course, the money will come out of the structural and cohesion funds, so it will not be spent on other ways to improve the economy across Europe.

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I will make a bit more progress. I am sure that the hon. Lady has some interesting views on subsidiarity that she will want to share a little later.

The Government’s view has not changed. We are unconvinced of the merits or appropriateness of the proposal. The principle of subsidiarity, which is enshrined in article 5 of the treaty on European Union, states that the EU should act collectively only when

“the objectives of the proposed action cannot be sufficiently achieved by the Member States”

on their own, but can “be better achieved” by action on the part of the Union. We consider that the measures to assist the neediest members of society, as set out in the proposal, can be better and more effectively delivered by individual member states through their own social programmes, not at an EU level. Member states and their regional and local authorities are best placed to identify and meet the needs of deprived people in their countries and communities in ways that are administratively simple and efficient.

In the explanatory memorandum, the European Commission states that the ability of member states to support those who are at the margins of society has been diminished and that social cohesion is threatened by fiscal constraints. We recognise the need to protect the most vulnerable in society and are taking action to do so. However, as I have said, there is nothing in the proposal that could not be organised and financed by member states. The Commission provides no convincing argument for why it is necessary to superimpose a European scheme. The solution must lie with the member state, not at EU level. Member states have that responsibility and must take it. The Commission may argue that the response of member states to these issues is inadequate or that some member states make use of the food distribution programme. However, the Commission does not make the case that the situation is the same in all member states. There is, therefore, no justification for making the fund mandatory for all member states.

Kate Green Portrait Kate Green
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

In a debate on food poverty a few days ago in Westminster Hall, which was called by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath) made much play of the fact that food poverty was being caused not, this Minister will be pleased to hear, by the actions of the Government—although some of us were sceptical—but by rising food and commodity prices around the world. Is that not exactly the kind of issue that is susceptible to collective European solutions, particularly when this country is seeing a rising number of people, including working people, having to access food banks because of the Government’s failure to act?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
- Hansard - -

I am not entirely sure what European action the hon. Lady thinks would tackle that problem. We do need to examine the regulation of commodity markets, which is happening in connection with MIFID II—the second markets in financial instruments directive —at the moment. However, European Governments intervening to buy up food stocks might not be the most helpful action. Those with long memories, such as my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr Cash), will acknowledge that the source of the programme in question was the intention to tackle another problem—the wine lakes, butter mountains and so on. European intervention perhaps causes as many problems as it is intended to solve.

In justifying its position, the Commission points to the Europe 2020 strategy and its headline target of reducing poverty and tackling social inclusion. However, as the European Scrutiny Committee indicated in its report, the proposal was not envisaged when the Europe 2020 strategy was devised, nor does the existence of an EU target mean that action must be taken at EU level. In any case, the EU already has instruments to strengthen cohesion in the form of structural funds. We believe that EU cohesion policy should contribute to tackling poverty and the European social fund programme should contribute to helping disadvantaged people into work.

We are also concerned that the proposal does not represent value for money and would be burdensome to administer. Using EU structural and cohesion fund processes to deliver the instrument in question would lead to heavy and costly administrative burdens on member states and partner organisations. The structural and cohesion funds are there for very different activities from the new fund. They do not buy and distribute food and consumer goods. The new fund will require different, and probably more burdensome, procurement, monitoring and auditing processes. Not only is it inconsistent with subsidiarity, it will also use resources that would be better deployed at national or local level.

If the fund were removed from the proposals, the UK could argue for an equivalent reduction of €2.5 billion in the EU budget over the seven years of the multi-annual financial framework. Given the Labour party’s view, I assume it would support that.

In opposing the Commission’s proposal, I reiterate that the Government strongly support measures to tackle poverty and social exclusion at member state level. In the UK, we have a full range of benefits and tax credits in place to cover financial needs for those in and out of work. We are investing £400 million in the current spending review period in helping local authorities prevent and tackle homelessness, and we are committed to eradicating child poverty. We are taking a new approach to tackling the root causes of such problems, including worklessness, educational failure and family breakdown. The EU structural and cohesion funds are better used in tackling the root causes of poverty than its symptoms.

On food aid, the Healthy Start scheme provides a nutritional safety net in the form of vouchers for basic healthy foods and free vitamin supplements for pregnant women and children under four from disadvantaged and low-income families. Initiatives such as FareShare and FoodCycle are good examples of essential work that charities are doing to support communities. We therefore believe that member states are capable of taking such action to help the most deprived, and we are not convinced that the European Union is better placed to take such action.

We agree with the European Scrutiny Committee that the Commission has provided no convincing argument that the proposal meets the principle of subsidiarity, and I thank the Committee for its work and for proposing the motion for debate.

--- Later in debate ---
William Cash Portrait Mr Cash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I could not agree more, and I would love to go down that route. I will not do so tonight, but the overpayment of civil servants in the European Union is a scandal.

Does the Minister believe that there is evidence of a broad “request by European citizens” for this type of supranational financial support? From what he has said, he clearly does not. The Commission’s impact assessment also states:

“Currently more and more social stakeholders and EU citizens perceive the EU as a threat for their personal and collective protection.”

It goes on:

“Action at European level is required, all the more so, as a lack of social cohesion would hinder the Union's further development and undermine its legitimacy in the eyes of its citizens.”

In other words, this aspiration is based on the fact that the Commission wants to create a perception that the European Union is helping people, and it is then calling for a vast amount of money to justify that perception. In a way, this is an exercise in legitimised propaganda.

The Committee found that statement startling on a number of levels. Does the Minister agree with the Commission that the EU is perceived as a threat to the “personal and collective protection” of its citizens? Does he think it legitimate for this type of humanitarian funding to be used to reinforce the EU’s legitimacy? This is almost akin to Soviet propaganda.

A constant complaint by our Committee is that the Commission does not pay sufficient attention to the need to confirm that its legislative proposals comply with the principle of subsidiarity. I have given the House some instances of breaches of the rule of law. What kind of Government does the Commission purport to run, if it breaches the rule of law whenever it suits it to do so? When it was breaking the rules on the European financial stability mechanism, for example, Madame Lagarde came out of a meeting and said, “We’ve violated all the rules because we want to preserve the euro.” The thinking, which is very dangerous, seems to be: “Providing we can use the power that the member states have given us to get what we want, it does not matter whether we can justify our actions according to the rule of law or the principle of subsidiarity. We’re going to do it anyway, and we’re going to justify it by talking about people’s perceptions.”

It is no wonder that people like me get up repeatedly—like pestering wasps, as I said to the Prime Minister the other day—and try to ensure that we keep the European Commission under surveillance and control. That is precisely what the European Scrutiny Committee is doing. We are ensuring that these matters are properly looked at, and I am delighted that the Government are going with us on this occasion. In this instance—believe it or not—the word “subsidiarity” is not even mentioned in the Commission’s explanatory memorandum. Will the Minister give us his assessment of the Commission’s assertion that the proposal does comply with subsidiarity? Does he agree that, in order to warrant supranational action, the Commission must show that the provision of emergency aid in some member states is undermining social cohesion in others, and that there is a genuine cross-border element involved?

I am arguing the case on subsidiarity, never mind on the justification of the arguments on the merits of giving money. It is an utter, complete and devastating tragedy that people all over Europe are resorting to using food banks. I sympathise with the concerns of the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) about those very people. I do not have any problem there. It is one of the reasons why I spend as much time as I can on matters relating to international aid in countries throughout the world and in the Commonwealth. I am concerned about these people, but we cannot use this sort of legislative framework because of the misuse to which it is being subjected. So does the Minister think that the Commission has proved the existence of this cross-border element?

William Cash Portrait Mr Cash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am delighted to hear that. This is where it gets tricky for us as a Parliament. We generally agree that this is not the right thing to do and I believe that the Opposition agree with that in terms of subsidiarity, although they have expressed their view about the question of the merits. The problem is that the number of reasoned opinions on this proposal will fall far short of the minimum required to oblige the Commission to reconsider. However, in the opinion of the Committee, that does not mean that a reasoned opinion of the House of Commons is without meaning or consequence.

Finally, will the Minister tell us whether—and, if so, to what extent—the Government plan to make use of the reasoned opinion in the Council negotiations on this proposal. As I said to the Prime Minister on another subject, it is difficult—he is between a rock and hard place. There are dilemmas, but we as a Committee have a job to do, which is to point out where the subsidiarity has been breached and to present a reasoned opinion. What really troubles me is that we do our job and look to other member states that are constantly berating us for our so-called “attitude” towards the European Union. However, when there is an absolutely clear-cut breach of the rules that they have set themselves, they turn round and say, “Well, we listened to what you said. We are not going to enter into an argument with you about whether you are right on your reasoned opinion”—they cannot; there is no way that could possibly be justified—and then they say, “But we are still going to vote for it.” That is the way to destroy the European Union, and they are doing a pretty good job.

Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Thursday 13th December 2012

(11 years, 6 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council met on 6 December 2012 in Brussels.

There were public discussions on the posting of workers enforcement directive and Europe 2020. The debate on posting of workers showed a split in member states position on the key articles. The file will now be considered in parallel by the European Parliament and Council in the new year. On Europe 2020, Ministers broadly welcomed the Commission’s youth employment package. The UK stressed that the youth guarantee needed to reflect the dynamics of national markets. Ministers also held an informal exchange of views on the newly adopted proposal for women on company boards.

The Council adopted a progress report on the European Globalisation Adjustment Fund (EGF). There was some support for the continuation of this fund in the next programming period. The UK disagreed, arguing that the fund should be discontinued.

The Council noted the presidency’s report on the state of play of the programme for social change and innovation (PSCI), Council conclusions on violence against women, the Council declaration of the European year 2012 of active ageing and a progress report on the equal treatment directive.

Under any other business, the Council noted presidency updates on supplementary pension rights and the EU fund for the most deprived. The presidency provided information on conferences held during the Cyprus Presidency. Finally, the Irish delegation outlined the work programme of their forthcoming presidency.

Youth Contract Employer Wage

Mark Hoban Excerpts
Wednesday 12th December 2012

(11 years, 6 months ago)

Written Statements
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Mark Hoban Portrait The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)
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The Youth Contract, worth almost £1 billion, builds on existing support to provide young people with more intensive adviser support and work experience, as well as providing employers with wage incentives and apprenticeship grants to encourage them to recruit young people. This will create around 500,000 opportunities for young people and will ensure that every unemployed young person will receive the support that they need.

On 17 December 2012, the Government will extend the eligibility of the employer wage incentive element of the Youth Contract to include all young people, aged 18 to 24, who reach six months on benefit. This will make an incentive worth up to £2,275 available to businesses that employ these young people for six months or more, as it has been in 20 youth unemployment “hotspots” since July. This means that wage incentives will be available via Jobcentre Plus before most young people enter the Work programme.

Providing earlier access to wage incentives across Great Britain will simplify the offer for employers and will allow greater collaborative working between Jobcentre Plus and Work programme providers.

In order to maintain additional provision in the youth unemployment “hotspots”, extra Jobcentre Plus support will be made available for young people at the start of their claim in these areas. This is equivalent to an additional 80 minutes adviser time every fortnight from day one to month three of a young person’s claim. This will start to become available from January next year.