Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Hoban Excerpts

Monday 20th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

1. What steps he plans to take to implement the recommendations made by Professor Harrington in his final report on the work capability assessment in November 2012.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

As with each of Professor Harrington’s reports, we have adopted all recommendations to improve the process we inherited from the previous Government. We are in the process of implementing those recommendations.

[Ann McKechin]

The Minister will be aware that the rate of successful appeals has actually increased, which would appear to suggest that the reforms to the system are not yet working. Does he intend to investigate the claims made by Greg Wood, a former medical assessor for Atos, who said that the system was skewed against the claimant and made several serious allegations about how people’s claims were assessed?

[Mr Hoban]

As I said, we are in the process of implementing Professor Harrington’s recommendations. I would make the point to the hon. Lady, however, that when her party was in government, one in 10 people received the full employment support allowance, but as a consequence of our reforms three in 10 people now receive it, which demonstrates that the system is an improvement on the one that we inherited.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Does it not indicate that the Government take ESA very seriously and are being diligent in providing unconditional support to those who need it?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I want a system that gives the right support to the people who need it the most. We should also recognise that because of our reforms and improvements to the process, only 15% of fit-for-work decisions are successfully overturned.

[Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)]

Will the Minister explain the successful appeals? What factors underlie the success rate?

[Mr Hoban]

The tribunal has published a list setting out the reasons appeals are successful. In most cases, it is a consequence either of oral evidence presented at the tribunal or newer evidence being presented.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

The Minister will be well aware that there have been issues of public confidence in Atos ever since it was first commissioned to do this work by the last Government. Are the Government looking into and making progress on Professor Harrington’s alternative assessment process for those with hidden and fluctuating conditions, which is a very important area?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend raises an important issue. As a consequence of Professor Harrington’s recommendations, we are considering a range of different descriptors. We are working closely with medical experts and charities to assess those descriptors and will report later in the year on the effectiveness of the programme.

[Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the new enterprise allowance.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

I believe that the new enterprise allowance has been very effective in helping people set up their own business. As at the end of November last year, 31,540 have received or are receiving support from a mentor, and more than 15,000 have commenced trading. As my hon. Friend knows from his own experience, self-employment not only enables people to take responsibility for themselves and their family’s welfare, but gives others the chance of a job as the business grows.

[Paul Uppal]

Does my hon. Friend agree with me— I speak as somebody who ran their own business for 20 years before coming to this place—that the role of volunteer business mentors is crucial in that step between the classroom and self-employment?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I congratulate the voluntary mentors who are taking their role seriously, helping people to get into work and identify ways of setting up their own business. On Thursday, I was in Bradford talking to a group called Inspired Neighbourhoods, which promotes self-employment in its area and provides many voluntary mentors to help people take advantage of those opportunities.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Given the difficulties and challenges in setting up a business, does the Minister agree that it is essential that the advice given ensures that people can succeed, so that they do not end up in a worse situation than if they had not gone down that route in the first place?

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Gentleman is right. That was one of the lessons from Inspired Neighbourhoods, which sat down with people and said, “This is the amount of money you need to make from your business to ensure you become free from benefits and help your family to look after themselves.”

[Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con)]

21. I am sure my hon. Friend will join me in welcoming last week’s employment figures, which show that the number of people claiming jobseeker’s allowance in Reading East is now at its second lowest level since February 2009. Given Labour’s poor track record of securing sustainable employment, does he agree that the Opposition’s proposed job guarantee would fail to provide as many positive outcomes as the new enterprise allowance?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight the fact that the number of people claiming JSA fell by 7,000 last month, which also saw the 11th consecutive monthly fall in the number of young people claiming jobseeker’s allowance. The measures we are taking demonstrate the effectiveness of our programmes, particularly the new enterprise allowance.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister explain why people on the Work programme are not allowed to take up the new enterprise allowance and why he does not do more to encourage Work programme participants into self-employment?

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Lady should be aware that a large number of Work programme providers see self-employment as a route out. For example, I know from talking to Avanta, which operates the Work programme in the north-east and elsewhere, that it sees lots of opportunities for people to get into self-employment and supports them to do so.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as well as providing opportunities to get into self-employment, the small businesses generated are potential generators of many jobs? Has he seen the academic work showing that in business cycle after business cycle, small businesses created during a recession have a much higher chance of survival than those created at other points in the cycle?

[Mr Hoban]

That is a very good point. When I have visited jobcentres, I have seen examples of people who have created employment opportunities for themselves and others as a consequence of setting up their own business. That is a testament to the strength and resilience of the sector.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister realise—I tell him this as someone who has employed a lot of people in social enterprise—that social enterprise is also a good destination for entrepreneurs? Is he aware of the critical importance of high-quality mentoring? I know he went to Bradford; he could have come to Huddersfield to see the Enterprise Foundation. The quintessential success of that operation was down to good mentoring and trained mentors who carry on mentoring over the long term.

[Mr Hoban]

Indeed. I went to Portsmouth last month to see the Cathedral Innovation Centre, which was working with people from the Royal Society of Arts and Portsmouth university business school, as well as volunteers, to provide the right sort of mentors to enable social enterprises to get set up and be successful.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

3. What financial support his Department makes available to sick and disabled people while their claim for employment and support allowance undergoes mandatory reconsideration prior to the formal appeal.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

Jobseeker’s allowance is available to those found fit for work. Alternatively, employment and support allowance can be paid for those who subsequently decide to appeal. ESA can be backdated to include the reconsideration period. Those who are put in the work-related activity group, but appeal because they want to move to the support group, will continue to be paid ESA at the assessment rate, as now.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the Minister for that answer. A number of my constituents who have claimed for JSA have been told that they are not fit for work—they have a medical certificate—and are therefore not eligible because they are not available for work. What are people supposed to do in that situation? Will it not drive them into the hands of payday lenders?

[Mr Hoban]

First, if someone is found fit for work, they should be eligible for jobseeker’s allowance. The hon. Lady will be aware, as I am, of some of the hardship arrangements that are in place to help people, but it is absolutely right to try to encourage those claiming incapacity benefit to be reassessed, to ensure that those who are fit for work can get back into work, rather than be written off and face a lifetime of inactivity, as happened under previous Governments.

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

More broadly, when the Select Committee on Work and Pensions looked at this issue, we were interested in claimants’ experience of face-to-face interviews and, in particular, claimants with mental health problems. Will the Minister update the House on his assessment of those areas?

[Mr Hoban]

As a member of the Work and Pensions Committee, my hon. Friend speaks knowledgeably about this issue. When the employment and support allowance was introduced under the previous Government, a third of those with a mental health condition received it. As a consequence of the reforms we have introduced, that number has now gone up to 43%.

[Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware of the representations that I have made to the Secretary of State about a constituent of mine who has been suffering from mental illness for 13 years? Three months before his Atos test, he tried to commit suicide. Nevertheless, he was immediately refused a continuation of his benefit and was put into the limited liability group. Does the Minister not realise that there are some horrendous cases of punitive action being taken against people who are completely innocent in this respect? That constituent was without any visible means of income, and I had to refer him to the food bank in order to prevent him from starving. Is the Minister proud of such consequences of his policies?

[Mr Hoban]

I remind the right hon. Gentleman that he was in the Government who introduced the work capability assessment and the employment and support allowance. I have set out the improvements that we have made to the system that we inherited from the previous Government, which was not working. We are continuing to make reforms, and that is demonstrated by the fact that the proportion of people claiming employment and support allowance has tripled under this Government.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

I am afraid that appeals to tribunals following refused ESA claims are taking far too long. The Leicester office, which deals with appeals from my constituents, now has a waiting list of 40 weeks. I know that this is not the responsibility of the Minister’s Department, but will he liaise with the Ministry of Justice to get this sorted out as quickly as possible?

[Mr Hoban]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the whole process is taking far too long. We are working closely with the Ministry of Justice to reform the system and ensure that appeals can be heard more quickly. We are also working with charities to see what additional support we can give to people claiming employment and support allowance, to ensure that the right information is made available as soon as possible to enable claims to be processed as quickly as possible.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

What would the Minister say to my constituent, Philip Gillespie, who served our nation in Afghanistan and lost his right leg in an explosion there? Last month, he lost his disability living allowance and was told that he would be caught up by the new military system that is soon to be put in place. I hope that he will be caught up by it, but will the Minister ensure that this never happens again, and that a soldier serving his nation is never refused a benefit to which he is entitled?

[Mr Hoban]

I am not familiar with the details of the case to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but we are working on arrangements with the Ministry of Defence and, in future, such cases will be dealt with by the Ministry rather than by the Department for Work and Pensions. However, the assessment is about functionability, not about someone’s condition. The old system, under which people were judged on their condition, resulted in many people being written off for decades because of their illness.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

4. What assessment he has made of the arrangements for offshore safety inspections in the North sea.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

I meet the chairman and chief executive of the Health and Safety Executive regularly to discuss health and safety matters, including those relating to the offshore sector, as appropriate. The departmental Select Committee and the Maitland review, which was commissioned after the Deepwater Horizon episode, both concluded that we had a strong offshore regulatory system.

[Tom Greatrex]

The Minister will be aware—or at least he should be—that next month will be the 25th anniversary of the Piper Alpha disaster, which precipitated the present health and safety approach taken in the North sea. Does he share the concern expressed by the trade unions operating in the North sea that the Health and Safety Executive’s energy division was set up without any consultation with the unions, and that the division undertakes not only offshore inspections but others as well? Will he guarantee that neither the number of inspectors available to conduct offshore inspections nor the number of such inspections will change as a result of this?

[Mr Hoban]

We have brought together various aspects of the energy sector in a single department. That bringing together of complementary skills is a sensible response to the increased diversification of the energy sector. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there is no slackening of focus on the offshore sector; indeed, we are recruiting more offshore inspectors.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

5. What assessment he has made of the effects of planned changes to the state pension on women born between April 1952 and April 1953.

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[Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

14. What steps he is taking to reduce the eligibility to UK benefits of nationals of other EU member states.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

We are taking steps to tighten further the rules relating to all migrants, not just new migrants. We are strengthening the habitual residence test; the Home Office is creating a statutory presumption that European economic area jobseekers and workers who are involuntarily unemployed will not have a right to reside here after six months unless they can demonstrate they are actively seeking work and have a genuine chance of finding a job; and we will prevent those with no entitlement to work in the UK from claiming contributory benefits.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it may be a good idea in the longer term to consider a more contributions-based system of benefits for all? One of the biggest problems for many people is although they may have worked and paid into the system for many years, if they are out of work for a period they receive little more than someone who turned up only last week.

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend raises an interesting point, but she might be aware that in a contributory benefits system those benefits can be exported to other EU member states, and she may think that is a disadvantage of the contributory system.

[Mr Chope]

Why do the Government not insist that out-of-work benefits paid to non-United Kingdom citizens should be paid at the rate of benefit prevailing in the claimant’s home country? Should we not insist on that being a red line in the welcome forthcoming renegotiation?

[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend is aware that we are, in part, operating within a framework determined by the European Union. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State met his German counterpart last week, and further meetings are planned for next month with European employment Ministers to discuss these very issues.

[Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)]

9. What steps he is taking to help pensioners.

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[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

12. What assessment he has made of the effect of sanctions on jobseeker’s allowance claimants.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

Sanctions have played a key role in ensuring that jobseekers meet their commitments to the taxpayer in return for jobseeker’s allowance, and 40% of claimants say that they are more likely to look for work due to the threat of a sanction.

[Mr Hepburn]

In my constituency, the number of jobless people chasing each vacancy is more than double the national average, yet my local citizens advice bureau informs me that there has been an increase in the number of people who have been to see it who have been kicked off benefits because of sanctions. When will the Government—more specifically, the Tories—stop demonising the unemployed for not having a job, and when will they stop this relentless war against the poor?

[Mr Hoban]

I point out to the hon. Gentleman that there are people in his constituency who are paying their taxes and working, and who expect jobseekers to do all they can to look for work, so that they can look after themselves and their families. That is the contract that underpins the welfare state—the contract that the previous Government signed up to; I am surprised that he seems to be backing away from that.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

13. What redress is available to tenants whose landlords seek to evict them on the grounds that they are housing benefit recipients subject to the benefits cap.

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[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

T5. I am proud to have given full-time jobs to two young people who did some short-term work experience in my constituency office. That was work experience, not an internship. What evidence has my hon. Friend that work experience helps people get back into work?

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Mr Mark Hoban)]

An evaluation that we published last year shows that young people who have had work experience have a better chance of getting off benefit and into work. I am grateful to everybody, including my hon. Friend, who makes available work experience places to give young people a chance to get out of unemployment and into employment.

[Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State give the House his personal forecast for when this year’s allocation for the discretionary housing payment fund will run out?

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[Mr Hoban]

My hon. Friend will recognise that we have seen a big fall in the number of people who are out of work and a reduction in the number of people claiming the main out-of-work benefits. I am confident that our reforms to universal credit will further improve the lives of those who are out of work and those who are on low incomes.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

T2. For many, retirement is a welcome liberation from demeaning drudgery. For others, it is an unwelcome end to their useful lives, often leading to ill health. What are the Government doing to ensure more choice in the age of retirement?

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[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

T3. I keep hearing of homeless people having particularly difficult and negative experiences of the Work programme. Crisis has told me of a woman who lives in a hostel and has serious mental health problems, some of which relate to being homeless, yet she was referred to a sub-contractor specialising not in mental health, but in learning difficulties, who was obviously no use to her whatsoever. What will the Secretary of State do to sort out the people who are supposed to be offering services and support that are appropriate to people’s needs and end the failure of his Work programme?

[Mr Hoban]

There are some excellent examples of how the Work programme has worked with people who are homeless and those who have mental health problems. The important thing is to learn from where practice is excellent. We will ensure that that happens and that good practice is shared.

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

T9. Will my hon. Friend please update the House on what recent assessment she has made of the number of Remploy staff who have made it into employment or training?

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[Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)]

T8. The Secretary of State and his ministerial colleagues have taken a number of questions on Atos and the work capability assessment, and I think that many people listening to these proceedings would consider their answers relaxed to the point of complacency. Does he recognise that people who have intermittent, real problems with working—people with brain damage and with mental health problems—are not being served properly by the work capability assessment? Does he recognise that this is a problem, or not? If he does, what, in practice, is he going to do about it?

[Mr Hoban]

The hon. Gentleman needs to remember that his party in government introduced the work capability assessment, so Labour Members cannot shirk their responsibilities. Since we came into office we have implemented the findings of Professor Harrington, and the fourth independent report is under way. The proportion of people going into support groups has tripled under this Government. That is a consequence of the reforms that we have introduced to fix a system that the previous Government created.

[Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con)]

T10. Will the Minister join me in welcoming last week’s figures from the Office for National Statistics showing a fourth consecutive quarter of significant growth in the employment of UK nationals? Will he contrast that performance with the performance of the previous Government between 2004 and 20011, when we saw a significant increase in the employment of non-UK nationals in the economy?

[Mr Hoban]

The former Prime Minister used to bang on about British jobs for British workers, but in reality the majority of new jobs went to non-UK nationals. We have reversed that trend, and now nine out of 10 new jobs go to UK nationals.

[Fiona O’Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

A constituent of mine who lives in Haddington was recently asked to attend a tribunal for her disability living allowance in Glasgow, which, because she had to use public transport, would have meant a round trip of six hours. That is not only unacceptable for her but places a strain on welfare rights in my constituency. Does the Minister think that that is acceptable?

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[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I know that Ministers want to be on the side of those who work hard to get on, including a constituent of mine—about whom I have written to the employment Minister—who worked hard for many years before undergoing chemotherapy for blood cancer. Two years ago he spent a month between jobs, during which time he chose not to claim benefits, but he has been told by the benefits office that, as a result of this gap in his contribution history, he is not eligible for contributory employment support allowance. Will the Minister meet me so that we can examine this case and try to make sure that rigid bureaucracy does not prevent us from helping people in such situations?

[Mr Hoban]

I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the case in more detail.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

A recent judgment said that homeless people using night shelters are not eligible for any housing benefit payments. Given that night shelters will not be able to continue without an income from their service users, what action is being taken to address this problem?