Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hammond of Runnymede Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effects of the 2012 Budget on the pay of all ranks of armed forces personnel.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

The Chancellor announced extensions to public sector pay restraint in the autumn statement 2011. That will impact on armed forces pay. However, my right hon. Friend announced no further changes in relation to pay in the 2012 Budget, but he did announce the doubling of council tax relief for personnel on operations; the doubling of the families welfare fund to support the families of those deployed; and an additional £100 million of spending to improve accommodation for service personnel and their families. In addition, the lower-paid members of the armed forces are benefiting from the changes to taxation announced in the Budget.

[Diana Johnson]

Before the 2010 election, in full knowledge of the deficit, Hull Liberal Democrats promised to “raise the pay of our lowest-paid soldiers by as much as £6,000”. Lib Dems now back the pay freeze and the 20,000 redundancies while expecting our troops to sort out the Olympic shambles. Why should our armed forces trust Liberal Democrat promises ever again?

[Mr Hammond]

The hon. Lady supported the Government who got us into the deficit that this Government are currently digging our way out of. We are setting out plans for sustainable, affordable armed forces who will be properly equipped for the task we ask them to do in future. They understand that.

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

Part of the remuneration package for reservists is the option for them to earn a bounty if they are deemed to be efficient. Territorial Army regulations allow the linking of a compulsion to train on certain days with the award of that bounty. Although that is not currently done, are there any plans to do it in future?

[Mr Hammond]

As my hon. Friend knows, we are committed to publishing a consultation document in the autumn that will look at employer engagement and terms and conditions for reservists. We will set out clearly our proposals for the new deal for reserves under the new arrangements I announced last week.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

There is all-party concern about forces’ pay during the Olympic games. The Secretary of State is right that there is no exact comparison with other workers, but the country has noticed that London bus and train drivers are getting Olympic bonus payments and that our forces are not. What contact has he had with G4S about it paying bonuses to troops who are called up at the last minute? I do not begrudge the transport workers their bonus, but just because troops rightly cannot go on strike, they should not be ignored by the Government.

[Mr Hammond]

Clearly the union got to the right hon. Gentleman and made sure he included that last bit. We are determined to ensure that the welfare of our troops who are engaged in the Olympic project is properly looked after while they are deployed on that operation and that they are properly recognised. I am in discussion with senior members of the armed forces about how best to do that.

The Government do not have a direct contractual relationship with G4S—the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games holds that relationship—but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that whatever resources we need to ensure we offer an appropriate package to our armed forces will be made available.

[David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)]

22. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that battalions made up largely of British personnel, such as the Royal Welsh, are now facing the axe, whereas battalions made up largely of non-British personnel, such as the Gurkhas, are not?

[Mr Hammond]

This strays slightly wide of the original question. I explained the week before last, I believe, the reason why the decision was taken not to look at removing a Gurkha Rifles battalion—the arrangements we have with the Sultanate of Brunei for the rotation of battalions would have broken down and been inoperable had we removed one of the two battalions.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

2. What recent assessment he has made of the defence situation in the middle east; and if he will make a statement.

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[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

7. What plans he has for the future of Defence Equipment and Support; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

I expect to be able to make a written ministerial statement about this issue tomorrow that will give further detail. However, in headline terms, the analysis conducted by the Chief of Defence Matériel on the comparative benefits of changing Defence Equipment and Support into either an Executive non-departmental public body with a strategic partner from the private sector or a Government-owned contractor-operated entity suggests that the strategic case for the GoCo option is stronger. More value-for-money analysis is required to confirm that assessment, and the Ministry of Defence will focus effort over the summer on developing and testing the GoCo option further.

[Kerry McCarthy]

I thank the Secretary of State for that reply. Was it not the case that the Government were always in favour of privatising Defence Equipment and Support but found it difficult to find the evidence to show that that provided value for money for the taxpayer? Were the other options under active consideration and in development?

[Mr Hammond]

We have looked at all the options, including what we call “DE and S-plus”: keeping an on-vote solution with enhanced capabilities. At the moment, it is clear that the work being done is pointing in the direction of a Government-owned contractor-operated entity, but I will publish further details tomorrow, and further details still as they become available later in the summer and in the autumn.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

While welcoming my right hon. Friend’s willingness to be bold in this area, may I suggest to him that one of the key factors to take into account in deciding just how bold to be—the GoCo is the boldest option—will be how many years Mr Gray is willing to stay in the job? I speak as one of his great admirers.

[Mr Hammond]

We are extremely grateful for the contribution that Bernard Gray is making as Chief of Defence Matériel. He is looking at bold and radical solutions that will allow us to deliver the equipment programme within the budget envelope we have set, and thus ensure that the whole of our programme for the armed forces is sustainable, in marked contrast to what the previous Government managed to deliver.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

8. What steps his Department is taking to improve the employment opportunities of veterans.

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[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

12. What account he took of recruitment capability in determining regimental disbandment.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

In selecting infantry battalions for withdrawal, the Army has focused on the major long-term recruiting challenges that it faces in this area. It has looked carefully at historic recruiting performance over a decade, and at demographic projections for the age cohort from which infantry recruits are drawn in the recruiting catchment areas of different regiments. It has also considered regional and national affiliations, the merger and disbandment history of individual battalions, and existing commitments of battalions to future operations. The overriding objective has been to arrive at a solution that delivers a balanced and effective military force and is seen as fair and equitable by those currently serving in the Army.

[Mr Baron]

Although the MOD has not been able to supply the five and 10-year recruitment figures, despite a named-day written parliamentary question tabled the week before last, the three-year figures clearly show that better recruited English battalions, including the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, are being axed in order to save the more poorly recruited Scottish ones. Will the Secretary of State deny that petty politics in relation to the Scottish referendum has influenced decisions?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is repeating an assertion that he made when I made the statement. I sat down afterwards with the Chief of the General Staff and went through his process again to reassure myself that I could say with confidence to my hon. Friend that the assertion he is making is simply not correct. Looked at over a decade, the recruitment figures for the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers speak for themselves. I am happy to have a meeting with him and go through the numbers, if he would like to do so.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Three former senior figures from all three services wrote in The Daily Telegraph this morning of “cynical” cuts to our armed forces and described the plans for Army 2020 as “unbelievable”. Does the Secretary of State not think that with a collapse in confidence at such a high level and morale among the ranks in free-fall, along with his risky strategy on the use of reservists, his decision on 2020 should be another candidate for a possible Government U-turn?

[Mr Hammond]

As usual, plenty of criticism and no constructive suggestions from the Opposition. In relation to the letter this morning, the key word is “former” senior officers. I take my advice from senior serving officers in the military. This is a plan designed by the Army to secure the future of the Army. They are confident that they can deliver it and I have confidence in their ability to do so.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

13. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the unification of the new regiments created in 2006-07 where battalions were created from previous historical regiments; and if he will make a statement.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

The Royal Regiment of Scotland, the Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment, the Yorkshire Regiment, the Mercian Regiment, the Royal Welsh and the Rifles were all created in 2006-07. All these regiments have provided battalions for operations in Afghanistan which have been well prepared and which have delivered significant success, as well as all taking significant casualties.

[Philip Davies]

My right hon. Friend will understand the disappointment in Yorkshire at the disappearance of 2nd Battalion the Yorkshire Regiment—the Green Howards—but can he confirm whether his intention is to have a completely merged Yorkshire regiment in its entirety with the two remaining battalions, which I understand is what the majority of those serving would like to see, or to have the two remaining battalions based on their previous regimental backgrounds, which it seems the majority of retired personnel would like to see?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend draws an interesting distinction—not the only one that has been brought to my attention—between the desires of people serving in the Army now and those of former members of the armed forces, because they are not necessarily aligned. I can only repeat what I told the House on 5 July: having announced the changes, we expect regiments to come forward with proposals for restructuring within the boundaries we have announced. We will support decisions made within the regimental families to do that, whichever way they propose going.

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[Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Philip Hammond)]

My departmental responsibilities are to ensure: that our country is properly defended now and in the future through delivery of the military tasks for which the MOD is mandated; that our service personnel have the right equipment and training to allow them to succeed in the military tasks; and that we honour our armed forces covenant. My first priority is the success of the operation in Afghanistan, followed by the provision of support to the Olympics security plan. The Ministry of Defence has also embarked on a major project of transformation to ensure the behavioural change needed to maintain the budget in balance and deliver the equipment programme.

[Andrew Selous]

As a former Territorial soldier, I have every confidence that our reserve forces will rise to the challenge set by the Secretary of State, as they always have done, but when does he expect the order of battle for the Territorial Army to be announced?

[Mr Hammond]

As I said, we will publish a consultation paper in the autumn. The consultation period will take us through into the new year and we expect to be able to publish full details of our plans for the Army reserve in the spring, including the order of battle.

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

How many contracts does the Ministry of Defence have with G4S? Will the Secretary of State commit to reviewing them in the light of recent events, and will there be a moratorium on the MOD signing any future contracts with that company until the findings of those reviews have been reported in full to Parliament?

[Mr Hammond]

I cannot given the right hon. Gentleman a simple answer on contracts we have in place with G4S—

[Mr Murphy]

Why not?

[Mr Hammond]

I am quite happy to look into the matter and write to him. Depending on the type of contract being let, the MOD is bound by the regulations binding all Departments—European procurement directive regulations—unless it is a contract for war-like supplies, and must conduct its procurement in accordance with them.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

T2. Can the Minister update the House on the range of protected vehicles available to our troops in Afghanistan?

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[Mr Philip Hammond]

On the first point, I take advice from the Army, and that is the correct way for the Defence Secretary to behave in these matters. On the preservation of the name of the Staffords, I am well aware of the concerns expressed by Staffordshire Members of Parliament, and as I said in relation to the Yorkshire Regiment, this is a matter for the regiment. If the regiment comes forward with a proposal to merge the antecedent name into the antecedent names of the 1st Battalion the Cheshires, we will be quite happy to support that arrangement.

[Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)]

T3. Does the Defence Secretary agree that the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers has done everything that was asked of it in conflict, in peacekeeping, in recruitment and in coping with reorganisation? Why, then, has it been reduced to a single battalion, when its recruitment record is so much better than battalions unaffected by the infantry cuts?

[Mr Hammond]

I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman repeats the comments that my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) made earlier, and that is simply not the case. Looked at over a 10-year horizon, the recruiting figures speak for themselves, and the Army has conducted a rigorous process that resulted in the withdrawal of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. I can say no more than that to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

T5. Significant cuts to the armed forces carry real risk; increased reliance on the reservists carries real risk; and greater emphasis on the private sector for logistical support, again, carries real risk. Will the Secretary of State therefore respond to my concern that the potential cost-saving benefits of the cuts to capability that the Government have announced do not outweigh the risks that they pose to our ability to leverage force in an uncertain and changing world?

[Mr Hammond]

As usual, there is no alternative constructive suggestion. We have a £38 billion black hole in the defence budget, and we have to resolve that problem to make our armed forces sustainable in future and to ensure that we can properly equip them when we ask them to put themselves in danger. What we have done is to set out a coherent plan that will deliver smaller but better equipped armed forces that are sustainable in the medium and long term, and I suggest to the hon. Gentleman that that is the best way forward for them.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

T7. I warmly welcome the involvement of the armed forces in ensuring that the Olympic games are safe and secure. Will my right hon. Friend explain the role that they will play during the Olympics and, in particular, the various consultations and engagements that have taken place with the community over the use of ground-based air defence systems?

[Mr Hammond]

Yes. The armed forces will support the police in the security operations for the Olympics. We will provide the air policing regime, including the ground-based air defence missiles, to enforce the prohibited and restricted zones around London. There will also be Royal Marine activity on the River Thames in support of the police, and of course 11,000 people will be deployed in support of the venue security operation. There has been extensive consultation with local authorities, landlords and Members of Parliament on the proposed location of the ground-based air defences.

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

T6. Will the Secretary of State update the House on the MOD’s current position in Libya?

[Mr Hammond]

I am very happy to double-check and write to the hon. Gentleman, but I believe that the position is that we have two MOD personnel on secondment in Libya. [Interruption.] The Minister for the Armed Forces is confirming that.

[Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)]

T8. Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to our armed forces, who do such a tremendous job? Does he believe that their professionalism will be an asset at the Olympic games?

[Mr Hammond]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Contrary to a lot of the noises off that we have been hearing, most people visiting the Olympic games and most people living in London will be hugely reassured by the presence of our armed forces. They bring resilience and reliability to the security arrangements. When a soldier is scheduled to be at place A at time B, you can bet your bottom dollar that he will be there.

[Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab)]

What will be the effect of the ludicrously last-minute commitment for our armed forces on post-operative leave entitlement for those returning from Afghanistan?

[Mr Hammond]

I have answered that question in the House before. People who came back from Afghanistan in April will have had their post-operational leave scheduled. It is possible that some people who have post-operational leave scheduled for the period of July and August will be asked to reschedule it. However, I can confirm to the right hon. Gentleman that everyone will receive their full entitlement of post-operational leave, or any other kind of leave, and that people who have to change their personal arrangements and incur any financial loss as a consequence will be fully reimbursed for that loss.

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the Scout specialist vehicle will go ahead, giving much needed certainty both to the armed forces and the supplier, General Dynamics, a valued employer in my constituency?

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[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Would any further cuts in the armed forces be unsustainable?

[Mr Philip Hammond]

We have announced all the reductions in armed forces manpower required to deliver the outcome of the strategic defence and security review. The changes announced will allow us to deliver the Future Force 2020 structure in 2020.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State look again at the cuts to the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, particularly the impact on Coventry and Warwickshire and the local impact? Can we have an answer without the right hon. Gentleman blaming everybody else? He is responsible for the double-dip situation that we have got.

[Mr Hammond]

I am responsible. I take advice from the Army, which is the only responsible way to decide on a restructuring package for the Army. As I said, I have reassured myself since I made the announcement that all of its elements are sound and based on proper evidence provided by the Army.

[Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con)]

There is an excellent proposal for 10,000 tickets for the Olympic games to be given to Her Majesty’s armed forces personnel. What procedures are being undertaken for the proper allocation of those 10,000 tickets? Can my right hon. Friend say something about whether, if other tickets remain unsold, it might be possible to give those tickets to armed forces personnel?

[Mr Hammond]

We are extremely grateful to the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games for the help that it has provided in making tickets available through Tickets for Troops and directly to the armed forces. We now have a substantial number of tickets available and we hope there may be still more to come. The detailed arrangements for distributing those tickets will be determined by the commander-in-chief, land forces.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

I am sure that the thoughts of all right hon. and hon. Members will be with the families of those who lost their lives in Afghanistan in recent days. What assessment has the Secretary of State made of recent reports that the Taliban believe that the insurgency can no longer be won? Is not this the perfect opportunity to convene all-party talks to bring about a secure peace in Afghanistan?

[Mr Hammond]

Indeed. The Government’s policy is to maintain the pressure through the military campaign, while encouraging both sides to come together and explore their tentative early contacts, and also to encourage Pakistan to play a constructive role in this process, because, in many ways, Pakistan holds the key.

[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

A senior military source has told me that many soldiers have been taken off promotional courses as a consequence of the G4S shambles. Will the Secretary of State assure me that they will get back on to those courses and will be fully compensated if their course is delayed by, say, a year?

[Mr Hammond]

I am not aware of any such cases, but I am happy to talk to my hon. Friend outside the Chamber and to write to him.

[John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to the previous unclear answer, is the Secretary of State categorically ruling out revisiting the “cat and trap” system for the aircraft carriers?

[Mr Hammond]

I do not think that there was a previous unclear answer. We have made a decision to revert to the STOVL––short take-off and vertical landing—solution. We are highly confident of the delivery of the F-35B STOVL variant, which the US Marine Corps depends on. We have had the highest level discussions with the US Administration, who strongly support the programme. I am looking forward to seeing US Marine Corps aircraft flying at Pax River on Wednesday.

[Mr Speaker]

Before I call the shadow Home Secretary to ask the urgent question that I have allowed, I must tell the House that I intend to bring proceedings on it to an end after half an hour. In view of the proceedings on Thursday, I ask Members not merely to repeat questions already posed and answered then, but to explore new territory that has since arisen.