Employer National Insurance Contributions

Kanishka Narayan Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I have heard the hon. Gentleman intervene in various debates, and I am coming to the conclusion that he is probably a rather sensible SNP Member, because he is absolutely right. [Interruption.] I did not opine on how sensible his party is. I just said that he is one of its most sensible Members.

It is very clear that this Government will not create firm foundations for the economy. They will actually create a vulnerable economy, because there are risks around the central forecast and downside risks around growth, inflation, net migration, economic inactivity, energy prices, interest rates and so on. There will also be risks around the spending envelope after the first couple of years, particularly for a profligate Labour Government who may find that constraint unbearable.

There are also external risks. We know that there will be a new Government in the United States, and there is talk of tariffs. It may be that the deficit financing of tax cuts leads to interest rates rising around the world as bond yields increase, and that could be imported to our shores.

All these things mean that we need a good level of headroom against our fiscal targets, yet, on the stability target, it is quite possible that the headroom has already evaporated. Why? Because, to my earlier point, the Government talked down the UK economy and, partly as a result, are paying more to service the debt that this country carries.

[Kanishka Narayan (Vale of Glamorgan) (Lab)]

I thank the shadow Chancellor for giving way; my interest was piqued by his talk of deficit financed tax cuts. Does he agree with his boss, the Leader of the Opposition, that the Liz Truss mini-Budget, which is the prime example of the thing he criticises, was the right package, but just with the wrong communication?

[Mel Stride]

If the hon. Gentleman has a look at the history of that time, he will see that I was the Chair of the Treasury Committee, and I had a great deal to say about the economic policies that were pursued in the so-called mini-Budget, so I will leave it at that.

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[Kanishka Narayan]

The Vale of Glamorgan, and Wales more broadly, is full of small and micro businesses. The Office for National Statistics and the OBR have both told us that most small businesses and micro businesses will be better off or the same as before. The Vale’s businesses get not only better public services but a good tax set-up. Does my hon. Friend agree that this is a great Budget and a great proposition for small businesses in the Vale?

[Louise Jones]

I could not agree more. I have heard from so many small business owners in North East Derbyshire who are so thankful for the changes that we are making to support them.

If we fail to make these decisions today, we risk the prospect of cuts to crucial services or an increased burden on future generations, which would fall on the most vulnerable in society.

Finance Bill

Kanishka Narayan Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett), and I congratulate her on her very heartfelt maiden speech. I commend her for her commitment to the NHS, and for her desire to be a role model for the next generation of women, who will follow up the ladder behind us. Her skills in data and tech will be incredibly helpful in this House as we grapple with the challenge of online harms, and the threats and opportunities of AI, and I wish her well in her career in this House.

There is no doubt but that the Government have received a terrible inheritance. Under the former Conservative Government, our economy flatlined, people’s living standards plummeted and our public services were left on their knees, so inevitably the incoming Government have had to make some difficult decisions. [Interruption.] Conservative Members might like side B. [Interruption.] Steady on. Some of those decisions we Liberal Democrats agree with. To start with, the Government have decided to borrow for productive investment, and in principle we agree with that. They have raised the levy on the oil and gas giants and closed the loophole, and we agree with that. They have decided to invest in the NHS, and we also agree with that. However, we cannot support the Bill, for many of the reasons set out in our reasoned amendment.

The first question is who should pay for fixing our NHS and social care. We Liberal Democrats have always said that it should be those with the broadest shoulders. Unfortunately, the Government’s Finance Bill does not reverse the tax cuts given to the big banks by the Conservatives; it does not raise the digital services tax on the big tech companies; and it does not increase the remote gaming duty. Those three measures, outlined in our reasoned amendment, would have raised billions of pounds to help fix our NHS and social care, and that money could also have been used to reverse the cut to the winter fuel payment.

The inheritance tax measures are not included in the Finance Bill, but it does pave the way for them. I must say that it is a bit rich of the Conservatives to pretend suddenly to be the friends of the farmers when they ushered in the very trade deals that have undermined so many farmers. However, I urge the Government in the strongest terms to think again about the family farm tax. That measure is badly thought through and leads to the worst of both worlds. It does not close the loophole that results in big equity companies and investors buying up land—it is still more tax-efficient for them to do that than to place their money elsewhere—yet family farms are being caught up as collateral damage. There are rumours that the Government may be thinking again, and I urge them to do so. It is possible for them to look at introducing a genuine family farm test, as exists in France and Ireland. If the Government look at this issue, the Liberal Democrats will, in the spirit of constructive opposition, work with them to get this right and to protect family farmers.

Our reasoned amendment also outlines our opposition to the increase in alcohol duty, because it will hit not only consumers, but small businesses—and not just any businesses. The businesses in this sector are bastions of new craftsmanship and innovation in our small-batch distilleries.

In summary, we know that the Government had an awful inheritance and had to make difficult decisions, but we Liberal Democrats would have made different choices.

[Kanishka Narayan (Vale of Glamorgan) (Lab)]

Has the hon. Member reflected on the fact that the Liberal Democrats, instead of being just the party of no, were the party who enabled the coalition Government, which she is criticising?

[Daisy Cooper]

I think we can all say that a lot of water has passed under the bridge since those times. Since 2015, we have seen what the Conservatives did when they were left in government on their own. I hope that people will have seen at the most recent general election that we Liberal Democrats put health and social care front and centre; that led us to become the largest third party in the last 100 years.

To conclude, we Liberal Democrats would have made different decisions from the Government, and for that reason, we will not support the Bill.

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[Kanishka Narayan (Vale of Glamorgan) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak while you are in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker. It was also a pleasure to hear the brilliant maiden speech from my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett). We are colleagues and partners in crime in the cause of technology. I know that she has a glittering career in front of her, and I look forward to witnessing it.

In view of the instruction from your predecessor in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker, I studiously read the Budget briefing from the House of Commons Library, which explained the history of the Finance Bill. Broadly, that history commends this country’s stability and its financial institutions—broadly, but with one great blip. Let me start by recognising the context of the Bill: the wreckage from which we emerge—the wreckage of the “growth plan”, as the Conservatives called it under their Prime Minister Liz Truss. The briefing, for which I thank the Library’s staff, tells us that not setting out the prospective flow of a Finance Bill from that was a total aberration. From the wreckage, however, has come the return of stability.

In fairness, I recognise that at the time, the present shadow Chancellor—the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride)—called the party leader out. He said that she was “flying blind”, and others were following her blindly. It seems that blind flight is contagious on the Opposition Benches today. The right hon. Gentleman talks about opposing, about being the party of “no” rather than the party of government. He did not tell us how he would fund public services; he did not tell us what taxes he would raise if he opposed all of ours. I am conscious that he also once called the pension triple lock “unsustainable”. This is not someone to be trusted with government or with opposition.

I note that the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) has just left the Chamber, having said that he was not interested in choosing. He stands for the 100%. As my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Lola McEvoy) said, to govern is to choose. To avoid choice is to play the fantasy politics of opposition, and I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman has found the warm Benches opposite.

[Dave Doogan]

The hon. Gentleman says that the Tories have no plan for public services. I accept that the Labour Government do have a plan, but it is completely unbelievable, so where does that leave us?

[Kanishka Narayan]

May I recognise, with warm comfort, the traditional place of the Scottish nationalists as total enablers of Conservative Governments? The hon. Gentleman talks about fiscal credibility. May I point out the absolute wreckage of the Scottish Government, who have wasted almost half a billion pounds of offshore wind proceeds on day-to-day spending because of their fiscal mismanagement? If he is taking tutorials alongside the Conservative party, may I ask him to invite his colleagues in Scotland to them? Those will serve them very efficiently.

From my experience of the City of London, and of investing in this country and abroad, the broad lesson I have learned is that finance is always contingent, but the fundamentals matter. For that reason, the Bill has to be seen in the context of what it enables. Where the Conservatives treated the working people of this country as their cash machines, we are protecting payslips. Where they did not support healthcare in this country and wrecked the waiting list system, as I experienced growing up in this country, we are supporting the NHS. Where they slashed public investment and took cowardly decisions across their Finance Bills, we are investing in our future.

I want to mention a proposal in the Bill that is close to my heart: the relief on draught duty, which will affect the Lamb and Flag in Wick, the Three Golden Cups in Southerndown and, closest to my heart, Finnegans on Barry Island. When the “Gavin and Stacey” Christmas special is shown, I will make sure to make the most of the draught duty relief—particularly at Finnegans, but across the Vale of Glamorgan.

Let me return to the choice at the heart of this Bill. As the Treasury’s distributional analysis shows, the overall context of what we have done, both in the Bill and more broadly, is that 90% of households in this country will be better off. That is the amazing distributional context, after 14 years of what we experienced under the Conservative party.

What a daffodil-laden Budget we have! The Bill offers the biggest ever budget settlement for Wales; it means £1.7 billion for Welsh public services. Some 70,000 minimum-wage workers in Wales will be better off. There is £100 million for our coal and steel communities, and a timely £25 million of support for coal tips. For the daffodil-laden Budget and the Bill that undergirds it, I am very grateful to the Chancellor.

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[Jerome Mayhew]

There were a number of points in the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. First, how much money should be spent? Secondly, what should it be spent on? And thirdly, where should we get it from? I will go straight to the heart of where we can get the money from: if we return public service productivity back to 2019 levels, there are tens of billions of pounds to be saved; if we return the size of the civil service to the 2019 level, before the big covid expansion, there are tens of billions of pounds to be saved; and if we return welfare spending on disability back to pre-covid levels, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride) was in process of doing before the general election, there are tens of billions of pounds to be saved.

[Kanishka Narayan]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Jerome Mayhew]

In a moment. If we add that all up, there would be £50 billion that could be spent on the frontline. However, the problem with the Labour party is that it takes money and spends it on inflation-busting wage rises for its union paymasters, but not on increasing and improving the outcomes for the people who use services. That is the big difference between the Conservative party and the Labour party. The focus of our spending is not the people providing the services; we are for the people who use those services—the people of this country.

[Jerome Mayhew]

My hon. Friend is entirely correct: over the course of the forecast period, the Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that growth will be cut by 0.7%. It is worse than that, however, because we also have an increase in taxes on businesses of £25 billion through the national insurance contributions, which the OBR tells us will be paid for overwhelmingly by reduced pay for workers, amounting to £7.5 billion. It also forecasts that more than 50,000 full time-equivalent jobs will be lost as a result of the policies that Labour Members plan to vote for.

[Kanishka Narayan]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Jerome Mayhew]

I will on that point.

[Kanishka Narayan]

The hon. Member keeps talking about his Government having been in the process of making a mark on productivity. Having left us with the worst productivity slowdown in 250 years, will he tell us how long the process would have taken?

[Jerome Mayhew]

The hon. Gentleman’s intervention was not on the point that he rose for, but there is one thing that he does not mention, and that is the covid impact. [Interruption.] Hon. Members can laugh about it, but we spent £400 billion supporting the economy and the people of this country in a once-in-a-century impact on our economy.

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[Josh Simons (Makerfield) (Lab)]

May I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for South Derbyshire (Samantha Niblett) on her excellent maiden speech? As a fellow technologist, she has done so much to make sure that women in particular are part of the technology sector. That is vital as we work to get more women involved in the technology sector and in technology policy.

Last week, a constituent who had voted Labour at the election came to see me. She was an elderly woman and she asked me this very simple question: what makes this a Labour Budget? As a corollary of that, she said, “If I were to vote now, why should I vote Labour to make sure that we have another Budget like the one you have just passed?” And I had a particular answer for her. We talked about some big things. We talked about the big choices that were in the Budget underpinned by this Finance Bill. We talked about, for example, the choice to make hard decisions in order to fund our NHS properly, to make sure that we shift from a national health service to a neighbourhood health service, so that, in my constituency we can ensure that there is proper health provision in towns like Hindley Green and Orrell, which over the past 14 years, have lost all their primary care provision. She thought that was compelling.

I then said that another of the bigger choices that we made in the Budget, which this Finance Bill underpins, is to invest, instead of accepting the slow decline that the Conservative Members have presided over for 14 years. We then discussed some of the less well covered measures that this Finance Bill supports, and it is those that I wish to talk about today. In these measures, we can see the values that make the Budget, and this Finance Bill, a Labour Budget: care, respect, and pride in our communities. These are the measures that answer her question: what is it that made the Budget that this Finance Bill pays for a Labour Budget?

Let me talk about a few of the smaller things that will benefit my constituents and working people right across the country. Most importantly for those I represent, we will end the injustice of the mineworkers’ pension scheme. Just yesterday, my constituents remembered the Springs colliery disaster in Hindley. Tens of thousands of people who used to live in the constituency of Ince, which preceded my own, came together in what was a powerful and emotional moment for them. By ending the injustice of the mineworkers’ pension scheme, the Chancellor ensured that as we build the next generation of energy, reducing bills and ensuring that foreign dictators no longer have a hold over energy production in this nation, we also remember the last generation of energy production: the workers who powered our industrial revolution and built this nation’s wealth.

[Kanishka Narayan]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the proceeds from the Finance Bill will allow us not just to invest in the future but to recognise our heritage, compensate mineworkers, and in particular support coal tips in Wales?