Support for Women in Poverty

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the matter of support for women in poverty.

First, I thank the Backbench Business Committee for allowing this debate to take place. We are indebted to that Committee for all that it does. It is these debates that enable us as MPs to bring issues to the House for consideration.

My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) was meant to lead this debate, but unfortunately she had to go home for a pressing engagement. As we applied for the debate together, we decided that I should lead the debate on her behalf.

People in every constituency can associate with this issue and fully understand the difficulties and intricacies involved. When my sister Joy decried the lack of help around the house from her brothers, including me, my mother would often say that a woman’s lot in life is what it is. My mother accepted the fact that she worked her fingers to the bone in the shop in Ballywalter we had from the ’60s through to the ’80s, and ran her home. What is more, she revelled in that role. My mother today is a very, very fresh 91-year-old who still tells her biggest son what to do and when to do it. She also gives me her clinical opinion on everything that happens in this place, because she is really, really with it when it comes to what is happening. She is a very capable lady who has thrived on hard work all of her days.

As time has progressed, the expectations placed upon people’s shoulders have escalated beyond bearing. I wish to outline the issues faced by all women. I will speak from the honest perspective of a man, while also reflecting the opinions and views of my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann. It should not be that a woman has to accept a substandard quality of life in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as so many do, and changes must be implemented now.

Let me talk about what we are doing in Ards, North Down and Strangford. The Ards community rural network has recently opened a women and family hub at 55 Francis Street, just up the road from my own office. I was really pleased to see it, because it focuses attention on the issues of women, children and families in my constituency. The Ards network has also done a lot of research into the prevalence of poverty in everyday life across Ards and North Down.

The network has collected some lived experiences, which include those of people who live alone and lone parents. Let me give Members an example that I was given the other day in preparation for this debate. A lady called in to see us; she was contemplating whether it was better to give up her job as a classroom assistant because she would be £700 better off if she did so. That is the reality for a woman living in poverty in the United Kingdom, in my constituency of Newtonards.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Nine out of 10 single parents are women. The median gross weekly pay for male single parents is £340, but for women it is £194.40. It cannot be denied that a key factor is gender, as women in general are more likely to be paid less or have to work part time. Does the hon. Gentleman share my concern that the Government are not looking at the big picture of why women are more likely to live in persistent poverty? A variety of factors influences their income.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right, and the statistics from Northern Ireland reflect that. They indicate that what she said is factual and regularly happens to a lot of people.

In Newtownards, we have been working with the Department for Communities and the Northern Ireland Assembly on a women’s development programme. The things that we are doing in my constituency are positive and proactive, and will hopefully lead to the progress that we need.

It is a real pleasure to see the Minister in her place; we look forward to her response. The two shadow spokespeople will, as always, contribute in a very positive fashion and help us to get results from the Minister. I applied for this debate not because I was reminiscing about my childhood with my mum, who was a very, very strong character, but because my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann drew my attention to the issue. We hope it will grasp the attention of Members who can drive for change.

Let me outline some of the facts, which reflect individually and corporately the issues that women in the UK face. Among those who die at working age, 28% of women spend their last year of life below the poverty line compared with 26% of men. Of those who die at pension age, 14% of women spend their last year of life in poverty, compared with 11% of men. That shows another inequality between men and women: women have the greater pain in their last days.

For women in the last year of their life the risk of being in poverty rises by a third compared with women in the general population. Working-age women are three times as likely to be in part-time employment as men. That is a fact of life; I experience it every day in my office and in my advice centre in Strangford. Women are also disproportionately represented in low-paid jobs. More than a quarter of women in work earn less than the real living wage, compared with just 16% of men. As a result, if they lose their job or give up their work, nearly two thirds of working-age women have savings that would last a month or less, and a third have savings that would last less than a week. Women unfortunately do not that much to fall back on. They make very good use of the money that they have, but they do not have that wee bit extra—that wee bit of cream to get them through the harder times. That increases the poverty risk among working-age women in their last years of life.

I will pause for a second to give a Northern Ireland perspective. I always give a Northern Ireland perspective in debates because it helps to formulate opinion, and helps the Minister and shadow Ministers to add their contribution. The unemployment rate for males in Northern Ireland has been consistently higher than for females over the past 10 years. Although the number of employees in Northern Ireland was very evenly spread between males and females, the number of self-employed males was more than double the number of self-employed females, and males were more likely to work full time than females. Furthermore, approximately 60% of employed women with dependent children work full time, compared with 95% of males with dependent children.

The unemployment rate for males in Northern Ireland has been consistently higher than for females over the past 10 years, but the gap is narrowing. By 2019, 44% of unemployed people were female and 56% were male. It is almost like-for-like; that shows the trend. Over the past 10 years, there have been consistently more economically inactive women than men. In 2019, just under a third of working-age women were economically inactive, compared with just under a quarter of men.

The most common reason for inactivity among women was family and home commitments. That might be society, but, to be honest, from my point of view, when my wife and I got married, we always wanted children, so we had three children in the first five years of our married life and my decision, and Sandra’s decision, was to be with the children. She was a mother who looked after the home and the children, and she did it very well, whereas most of the time I was away from the house. That is probably a conducive factor in a good married life—we spent enough time apart to be able to spend the rest of the time together and not fall out.

The most common reason for inactivity for men was sickness or disability. Some 76% of women with dependent children were economically active compared with 92% of men. The lowest rates for women were those with young dependent children, of pre-school age. That reflects the experience in my society and constituency today. Women are more likely to have dependent children and childcare costs than men. I welcome the Government’s action in the Budget on childcare costs. It is really important that childcare support is increased and women are enabled to gain more active employment, right across the United Kingdom.

Marie Curie research has also shown that, UK-wide, working-age people with dependent children are more likely to experience poverty in their last years of life. Among pensioners, women have lower individual retirement incomes than men, reflecting lower average employment over their working lives and lower lifetime earnings than men, and a higher likelihood of having taken time out of the labour market or working part time to raise children. It is a fact of life, and it is again why the issue of women in poverty in the UK is so important.

Retired women are likely to be living closer to the poverty line than men are. This simply feels wrong. I ask the Minister what we are doing to help elderly women who are nearing the last years of their life and who are feeling the financial pressure. They are in the poverty bracket, and they may possibly have disabilities as well. Women aged over 70 in the UK are more than twice as likely as men to live alone, reflecting the average life expectancy of a lady. Living alone is associated with a higher risk of poverty among both the working-age and pension-age population. Some 29% of single pensioners experience poverty in the last years of life, compared with just 21% of pensioners living as a couple. These are the facts according to Marie Curie’s research, which is detailed and well evidenced.

The higher risk of poverty at the end of life for women of both working age and pension age is representative of the inequalities that have built up throughout their lives. These lifelong inequalities mean women are less well placed, on average, than men to bear the additional costs brought on by terminal illness. Many people of that age group who come to me have disabilities. I always point people to the benefits system—attendance allowance, pension credit and so on. We have a very good working relationship with the food bank in our area as well. Those are areas where we are able to help immediately and try to give assistance.

Inequalities persist and are magnified, with retired women’s risk of poverty at the end of life increasing at a higher rate than that of men. Marie Curie’s research also found that women and people from minoritised ethnic groups are more likely to experience poverty at the end of life than men or people from white ethnic groups. The evidential base is clear that ethnic groups are more likely to have those problems, and I ask the Minister for any further information.

The Royal College of Psychiatrists has highlighted the well-established links between women’s experiences and their risk of developing a mental illness. For example, women are more likely to be on lower incomes, at risk of domestic abuse and have additional caring responsibilities. Almost always the lady of the house—the mum—is the carer. All of that increases the risk of developing a mental illness. Around one in five women experience a common mental disorder, such as anxiety or depression, compared with one in eight men, according to the most recent NHS adult morbidity survey. Despite this, there are still thousands of women and girls who struggle alone, and they could miss out on vital support as a result of that bias.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Poverty and food insecurity are not just about going hungry; as the hon. Gentleman said, there are knock-on effects on health and cognitive ability, and therefore educational attainment. People cannot concentrate on lessons or exams when they have not eaten all day, and that can be combined with the other factors that limit women’s chances of breaking out of poverty in adulthood. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Government must give due focus to how their benefits policies may perpetuate the poverty cycle?

[Jim Shannon]

I think they do, but I have no doubt whatsoever that the Minister will answer our questions. I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. Hopefully, we will get an indication of what the Government are doing to address that.

The Department of Health and Social Care surveyed 100,000 women and found that 42% of women would not feel comfortable talking to a family member about their mental health condition, 36% would not feel comfortable doing so with a healthcare professional, and 30% with a friend. Young adults and women were more likely to report worse mental health and wellbeing during the first national lockdown than older adults and men.

Even before the pandemic hit, mental health services were not keeping up with demand. I ask the Minister: what has been done to improve mental health conditions, particularly for women in poverty? We must focus the resources on where the problems are. This debate is an opportunity to identify that. During the covid-19 crisis, school and nursery closures, and homeworking, became a great problem for women, and contributed to poverty, as the hon. Lady referred to. It also contributed to a greater risk of psychological distress.

Reductions in local authority budgets have meant that a disproportionate number of women have taken up roles as unpaid carers. Again, is there anything we can do to help unpaid carers? I know that the Minister has been working hard on matters of gender equality and will continue to do so, but I honestly feel that the burden of children falls mostly on women, not due to the system we are in but due to a mindset. I think there is a mindset. For instance, whenever Naomi, my office assistant, had to take her daughter for surgery, she got parenting leave while her husband went to work. Without stress, her contract allowed for that first week. That is what a caring employer would do. I did that, but not everyone does.

A lady who worked in the retail sector came to see me. Her daughter took sick, and she had to take annual leave, as sick pay would not kick in for four days. Those are issues of unfairness in the equalities system. I was able to do the right thing; perhaps, other employers were not. That lady then had to work Christmas and new year, as she did not have the time off. To me, that is evidence of a clear inequality and is something that we need to address.

The reality is that the toll of poverty on women can be seen in the most despicable of ways. This is rather a sad case, but it is a factual case, and I used it without any names as an example in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. A lady took out a loan with a local loan shark to replace her cooker. She came to my office in tears. She had paid £500 back for her £300 cooker and yet was defaulting, according to the loan shark, and had been told—this is rather difficult to say in this Chamber—that she could pay off her loan in another way. She came to me in desperation. I was able to step in and point her to the help that she needed at that time, but I often wonder how many others find themselves in that particular predicament and how many women in poverty have been forced to do unspeakable things by people in their own community. That must end.

These women are hard working. Their poverty is nothing to do with their choices; it is to do with their circumstances, and we must work in this House to alter those circumstances. It is about the help that we can give. I believe that the Government must consider “women in poverty” funds within communities and that we must ensure that this Minister and her portfolio are funded appropriately, which must translate to help on the ground for the low-income mother who faces in-work poverty; for the lady who is asked to debase herself to provide a cooker for her family—how hard that must be for that lady, and for us in this House to be aware of that; and for the ill lady who has worked all her life, but is not entitled to enough help to deal with her illness and bring her out of poverty.

I support the calls of Marie Curie, which are particularly relevant for women in poverty, to give all terminally ill people access to their state pension regardless of age. It cannot be right that people who are forced to give up work due to their condition are left significantly more at risk of poverty in their final months and years simply because they are not yet old enough to claim the state pension. On average, terminally ill people in working age have made 24 years’ worth of qualifying national insurance contributions by their last year of life. The hon. Members for North Ayrshire and Arran and for Rutherglen and Hamilton West have also spoken about the WASPI—Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign—women on many occasions; again, I feel we have an example of that. Research shows that the Government could deliver change on those pensions for just 0.1% of the annual state pension bill. I am ever mindful that this is not the Minister’s ultimate responsibility, so if she was able to send this matter on to the responsible Minister, I would very much appreciate it.

I conclude with this: the question of women in poverty is a real issue in the UK and the solution must be real. I encourage the Minister to liaise with her Cabinet colleagues to find other ways and find additional funding that makes its way straight on to the ground for those women in dire circumstances and make the future brighter for children in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, like my three granddaughters, who deserve the best that can be offered. I thank you, Mr Sharma, for giving me the opportunity to play a part in the delivery of that goal. I look forward to others’ contributions, and in particular the Minister’s response. I find that the Minister always genuinely tries to respond in a positive fashion. I think she grasps the issues. Today, I have hopefully—in a very stuttering way—been able to put forward the case for women in poverty across this great nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and his colleague, the hon. Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart), who is not here today, for securing this important debate. I followed the debate as a fellow Dolly Parton fan and it is a pleasure to engage on this matter. The hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) talked about happiness, and happiness is indeed Dolly Parton. Those who do not know what I am talking about should look at the early-day motion.

We are all here in Westminster Hall on a Thursday because we are passionate advocates of women’s rights and want to improve their lives. Like the hon. Member for Wirral South, I pay tribute to the many ladies before us who trailblazed and gave us the opportunity to be here. On behalf of the Government, I commit to continue to support women at all ages and career stages. I fully recognise that, as the hon. the Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) said, supporting children is an important role. Family life and that support is important.

I hope to cover quite a lot of the questions—I am keen to make my speech, too—but I want to point out that over the last decade the gender pay gap has fallen from 19.6% to 14.9%, although I fully recognise that, as the hon. Member for Wirral South says, there is more to do. The percentage of women in employment has risen from 66.1% to 72.2%. In practice, that means 2 million more women in work since 2010. The Government have overseen increased numbers of women in full-time work and introduced shared parental leave. I absolutely believe in shared parental responsibility, supporting children and being there. We have doubled free childcare for eligible parents and passed our landmark Domestic Abuse Act 2021 to protect and support women and all those, including children, affected by that heinous crime. We will continue to build on that proud record of supporting women to provide a level playing field where everyone has fair and equal opportunities. I absolutely agree with the hon. Member for Wirral South.

On childcare and support for families, particularly for women, the Budget package for childcare has exceeded the expectations of many stakeholders. I welcome the points made by the hon. Member for Wirral South. I have spoken to many parents and visited nurseries. I also just met Save the Children. The increase of universal credit and childcare caps by around one third will help families, and those caps will continue to be uprated by the consumer prices index. I am meeting the Minister for Children, my hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Claire Coutinho), at the Department for Education next week, and I applaud the work that she has done.

The new free entitlements for working parents of young children can be used alongside the universal credit offer. That means full-time working parents on benefits across the country should not face childcare costs that exceed their free entitlements and caps. The DFE is also funding additional wraparound support for school-age children, and that can be used alongside universal credit. That is groundbreaking for those caring for children, and the reforms will revolutionise the amount of support that low-paid parents can receive.

We have spoken about some of those low-paid jobs and low-perceived sectors; the hon. Member for Wirral South made those points. It is really important that we tackle that issue. These are really important jobs that we particularly appreciated during the covid times—these people are doing the difficult jobs. It is really important that we support the people who go out, day in and day out, to do the difficult roles.

The hon. Member for Strangford mentioned mental health. He may have noted in the Budget that we will be embedding tailored employment support within mental health services and extending the well-established individual placement support scheme. That is really important. My hon. Friend the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work is focused on this particular area and on carers. The Health and Safety Commission is also doing work in that area.

I say to the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran that in the approach we showed throughout the pandemic and our response to cost of living pressures, we have been absolutely focused on acting to ensure that households get the support that they need. I am delighted that the powers that the Scottish Government have through the Scotland Act 1998 are being used to support the most vulnerable; that is exactly what they are there for. The partnership with DWP is welcome and has been very much strengthened. I am keen that we should continue to keep it under review and work strongly together. For those people who are struggling, I remind people that there are 1.1 million vacancies out there and we at DWP have all sorts of interventions that can help people to get into those roles. I will come on to that shortly.

I am very mindful of our particular role at DWP in mental health and wellbeing for women. Menopause has been a particular focus for me, particularly when it comes to anxiety and the impact on work. Menopause does not only affect women in their 40s or 50s; it can come at any age and at any career stage. Again, we have recently appointed the menopause employment champion, who will work collaboratively with businesses to ensure that the necessary information and resources are out there to support women. That champion is Helen Tomlinson, who is already cracking on with working with employers. NHS England’s national menopause care improvement programme is also focused on improving clinical menopause care in England and on reducing disparities in treatment. Changes from April will provide support with prescription costs as well. I am very alive to the impact of menopause.

We also discussed carers. I have shared before that my family has been a caring family and shared the impact of that. I look back on the mental health and wellbeing of my mum with some shame, to be honest, about the lack of recognition of the support that people need. I listened to my constituents on Carers’ Rights Day just recently. Disability, and the impact it has, can happen at any age or career stage. It could affect a child, or anyone later.

Carer’s allowance provides a measure of financial support and recognition for people who give up the opportunity of full-time employment to provide regular and substantial care for anybody who is severely disabled. Just under 1 million people receive carer’s allowance, which will increase in April, and receiving a means-tested benefit can be a passport to other support, including help with fuel costs and help through other schemes, such as the warm home discount scheme.

That is why I say to any constituent and to those who are watching: please have a look at the benefits calculator on gov.uk. People should make sure that they are claiming everything that they are entitled to. Many carers do not recognise that they are carers and that there is additional support out there for them.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the Minister for her very detailed response. Sometimes people, for whatever reason—they may just have a busy life—perhaps do not have the opportunity to pursue the suggestions she has just made, which were very positive. In many cases, I suspect that if they did make inquiries they would qualify for money. But is there any way that the Government could be more proactive on the issue, perhaps even by chasing the carers to ask whether they are aware of all their entitlements? Even a small leaflet through the post can make a big difference to a person who wants to understand what they could gain.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Charities such as Carers UK do an incredible job to help people in exactly that way; I know that as a former co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on carers. I will pass the point about communications on to the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work. I remind people that, through DWP, we have the Help to Claim service, and if people head to the Help for Households website, that can help them as well.

Discussing this issue gives me the opportunity to talk again in this Chamber about our amazing caseworkers—those who signpost and support people in need and help them to recognise and understand the support that is out there.

The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran spoke about domestic abuse and coercive and financial control, which the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) also mentioned. Tackling violence against women is an absolute priority for this Government. These crimes are harmful; they have a profound effect on victims, survivors, loved ones, families and our wider society. The hon. Member for Wirral South was absolutely right that one’s gender should not have an impact on how safe one feels or how well one can do. Times have to change.

Split payments are available in the universal credit system for all claimants who need them. A split payment is when the household universal credit award, which would normally be paid to the nominated account, is divided between two claimants. Split payments can be made to two separate members of a household, with a larger percentage allocated to the person with primary caring responsibilities, to ensure the health and wellbeing of the majority of the household.

That is a reminder for me to point out that if anyone is in need of any support—if they are under any control or are worried at all—a jobcentre is a safe place for them to disclose that, by using the “Ask for ANI” scheme and talking to their work coach. Departmental training and awareness are now better than ever, and there are now jobcentre staff who are specifically trained to support people experiencing any kind of domestic abuse, as there are in the Child Maintenance Service. That allows jobcentre staff to proactively identify, support and signpost victims of abuse. We are committed to the best possible support for our claimants, including those experiencing domestic abuse.

The hon. Member for Wirral South mentioned pension credit. That is vital financial support for pensioners on low incomes, which is why we launched a £1.2 million nationwide campaign in April 2022 to increase awareness and take-up, particularly for women who may be on a low income, whom we have discussed today. The most recent figures show, out of the pool of people who are entitled to pension credit, an estimated take-up of 66% for the financial year 2019-20. With the beginning of the pension credit awareness campaign in April 2022, weekly pension credit claims volumes increased by 73% compared to the previous 12 months, so this is working. I hope that that reassures the hon. Lady.

We are undertaking further communications activities, and we are absolutely determined to have a broad reach. The DWP is writing to more than 11 million pensioners to notify them about the upcoming state pension uprating, and last year that notification was accompanied by a leaflet promoting pension credit. We plan to spend another £1.8 million until the end of this financial year communicating with those who might be entitled.

[Jim Shannon]

I welcome that. In my office—I am sure it is the same in yours, Mr Sharma, and those of all hon. Members—whenever pensioners come to see me, I always ask whether they are getting all their entitlements. The first thing we check is whether they are getting pension credit. They might not qualify for it, but we always check it. The other thing is that if age is not on their side and they are getting older, they may not be as physically strong as they once were, and attendance allowance is a benefit that is not emphasised enough. Could we put a wee bit of emphasis on that?

[Mims Davies]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s point, which I shall take back to the Department forthwith. I hope that that pleases him.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank each and every person who contributed. The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) and I are always in debates together. That is the nature of our lives; we probably have the same interests. We are very interested in these subjects. She said that women are impacted by austerity even more than men are. She referred to the figures from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, and she reflected on the necessity of closing the gender pay gap. She spoke about split payments and said that it is time to name and shame, and I agree. If someone is not doing it right, they need to do it right, and they need to be reminded of that. She also referred to what is being done in Scotland. We are often reminded of things that the Scottish Government are doing, and today we were reminded again of some good points that we should be taking on board. She also referred to the gender pension gap, and to compensation. Like her, I feel strongly that there is an anomaly that has to be addressed.

The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) referred to those who keep homes together—mums and lone parents who look after the children. She referred to the pressure they are under and said that she sees that in her office, as we all do.

The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) brought a wealth of information to the debate. I really appreciated her contribution. She referred to Margaret—forgive me; I just could not make out the lady’s name.

[Alison McGovern]

Bondfield.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady. I asked the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran about it, but we could not make out the name. Margaret Bondfield set a trend for powerful women who made a difference. She became the first female president of the TUC and a Cabinet Minister. Those are the people who led the way —the pioneers—and it is important that we remember them.

The shadow Minister also referred to the gender pay gap and to those in retirement. She talked about the structural underpinnings for women. Those are all important objectives; that is what we should be trying to do. She also referred to the working poor. She spoke about looking after the home, earning an income and looking after families—the challenge for women is worse, and it is harder than that of the menfolk. She also said that women’s rights at work must be better, and she referred to flexible working. She made all those points well, and I really appreciated her contribution.

I thank the Minister, who came with a positive attitude. She said that everyone here was a passionate advocate for women’s rights—that includes her, by the way. Looking after children is an important role in itself, never mind keeping the home going, and she spoke about childcare caps for women in poverty. We welcome the childcare measures, as did the shadow Minister and the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran. The Minister referred to the work that has been done to ensure that full-time working parents benefit. She talked about the need to help the low-paid and she mentioned mental health pressures, which we all brought up; she recognises where such support needs to be. She referred to the extra moneys that were set aside in the Budget for that, for the carer’s allowance—I have a massive interest in that—and for cost of living help. She referred to wellbeing and the menopause, and how women have to deal with many other things in their lives.

The Minister also referred to domestic abuse, as did the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran, and to pension credit. We need to help people a wee bit more with attendance allowance and other benefits. I appreciate the Minister’s commitment. Sometimes what people need is just a wee bit of a nudge in the right direction. That is why when people come into the office, I always ask them what they are getting, so that we have an idea of what they should be getting but might not be. I think we can all be encouraged by the Minister’s response.

I say to everyone who took part, and particularly to the Minister, that I hope that with this debate we can move things forward for women in poverty across the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I believe that we have a big task, but it is always easier when we have a Government and a Minister who are also committed.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the matter of support for women in poverty.

Social Mobility

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered social mobility.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson, and to be able to raise the important issue of social mobility. I am absolutely delighted to see that the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies), will respond to the debate.

This matter has interested and concerned me for many years. Having been so fortunate as to be a product of social mobility, as are my family, I am keen to see it advanced. My family originated in the east end of London, in Bow and Poplar. Through education, hard work, opportunity, determination and good fortune, my grandfather, Thomas Evennett, and my father, Norman Evennett, were able to progress during their lives. I too have had many opportunities to work in careers that I have loved so much, including as Member of Parliament for Bexleyheath and Crayford, and before that, for Erith and Crayford.

Social mobility is about every single person having the opportunity to succeed. It is the link between our starting point in life and where we end up. If where we begin strongly determines where we end up, mobility is low, but if everyone has a good chance of achieving any outcome, regardless of their background, mobility is high, and that is what all of us here want. The Conservative Government are determined to ensure that work is a route out of poverty and into a future where individuals can achieve their ambitions, irrespective of their situation or origin.

Social mobility is one of the key reasons why Britain has been so successful in channelling the talents of all sections of our country, to their own benefit and that of the whole nation. Social mobility is good not just from a moral perspective; it has a huge impact economically. By ensuring talent is harvested from across the whole social spectrum, we can boost productivity and our GDP.

The Social Mobility Commission notes:

“the popular narrative of worsening mobility prospects for young people in the UK is not supported when we take a careful look at a range of outcomes across education and employment.”

That is positive news, because although talent in Britain is spread evenly across the country, regrettably, opportunity is not always. Every individual should have a fair chance of reaching their full potential, so we must ensure that everyone has the opportunity to build a good life for themselves, irrespective of their background.

In the latest “State of the Nation” report from June 2022, almost every gap in the intermediate outcomes between young people from higher and lower socioeconomic backgrounds has narrowed in the past decade. However, there are still disparities, but there has been progress across all measures. Intermediate outcomes in education and work have been trending in a positive direction. Educational attainment gaps between people from higher and lower socioeconomic backgrounds have narrowed, especially at key stages 2 and 4.

The gaps between those from professional and working-class backgrounds for both university participation and degree attainment have also narrowed, although I only have figures from the Sutton Trust, which are rather out of date now. However, there is still a long way to go. On early careers, the gap between people from professional and working-class backgrounds has decreased for most of the occupational and economic outcomes since 2014. However, it is noted that the full effects of the covid-19 pandemic are still unlikely to be shown in any data.

Although positive progress has been made, research undertaken by Professor Steve Strand from the University of Oxford found that there are still vast inequalities in educational achievement at the age of 16. I am particularly concerned about the fact that British white and British black Caribbean male attainment falls well below the average for all students of that age, and scores the lowest across all socioeconomic groups, particularly for the working class.

The variations in attainment are particularly pronounced in the lowest socioeconomic groups, with black Caribbean males achieving an average score of -0.77, and British white males achieving a score of -0.68, compared with Bangladeshi boys achieving a score of 0.07 and those in other Asian male groups scoring -0.11. There are also significant disparities between the attainment of boys and girls in these groups. White British girls and girls of black Caribbean origin score significantly higher across the socioeconomic levels than their male counterparts. Girls from black Caribbean origins from an average socio-economic group scored 0.01, whereas boys scored -0.41. British white girls from the same socioeconomic group scored 0.09, while British white boys scored -0.22.

This data is concerning as educational achievement has such a significant impact on socioeconomic attainment in later life. Our priority must be to create an even playing field, so that everyone has the opportunity to excel and achieve, wherever their ambitions take them. Even before the pandemic started in 2020, there were already many challenges facing our country, but the past three years have added many global challenges outside of the Government’s control—not just the devastating pandemic, but the ongoing war in Europe and the rise in the cost of living. These have all had an impact on social mobility. That is why it is more important than ever that the Government’s levelling-up agenda should remain at the heart of all that we do. The Government have an important role to play—they can lead—but others need to take up the issue and give it support, be they businesses, professions, families or communities.

The covid-19 pandemic was hopefully a once-in-a-generation crisis. It will have an impact on the world’s social mobility for years to come. It was entirely out of the Government’s control. It is important to remember that the historic vaccination programme enabled us to be one of the first western democracies to restore people’s freedoms and open our economy. The Government also delivered more than £400 billion-worth of unprecedented support during the pandemic. It was one of the most generous economic support packages anywhere in the world. It supported more than 14.5 million jobs and provided almost £80 billion in business grants and loans. However, the covid-19 pandemic has impacted particularly harshly on young people from poorer backgrounds. It is likely to have long-term consequences, in education and work, for that cohort. In the short term, we can expect there to be an adverse effect on social mobility, particularly for young people entering the labour market.

It is more important than ever that we provide support that can lift everyone, irrespective of who they are, where they live and where they come from. We cannot accept a country where people have different ladders to climb. People must be encouraged to engage with education and understand its long-term benefits. The recovery programmes that have been introduced, such as the recovery premium and the national tutoring programme, are vital in helping the most disadvantaged. I also welcome the Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill, which is proceeding through Parliament. It will enable people to get education and training throughout their life, so that they can skill and upskill, from school age up to the age of 60. That is a really positive movement.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the right hon. Gentleman for what he says. I am very aware that those with educational attainment can move on to employment that reflects that. People move from one job to another, but not every person can achieve educational attainment. I am not decrying anybody, by the way; it is just a fact of life. For those who cannot achieve educational attainment, their jobs may be on a building site or a farm, but we should never decry them. The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned opportunity three or four times. Does he agree that we need to make sure that a young boy or girl who is trying to achieve something moves in the direction that they need to?

[Sir David Evennett]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Of course, the whole thing about the Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill is that it offers skills, training and opportunities. If people did not succeed at school, they can come back and get skills, training or qualifications later. That is a really positive thing that the Government are doing.

I have worked as a college lecturer, teaching women returners to the workplace after career breaks, the unemployed and those who needed additional qualifications to advance in their careers, or to change career. Unfortunately, too much of the education in colleges and universities has been for young people only, but I taught people who are older—those who would benefit from what the Government are doing with the lifelong loan entitlement. It will improve access to education and training, and accelerate the Government’s levelling-up agenda.

Providing people with opportunities to acquire skills will help them to obtain work, or to advance their careers. That is particularly important in the technological age we live in, where the need to learn new skills never stops. All of us are always learning. Lifelong learning has become a reality, as I am sure you will agree, Mr Robertson. Education played a vital part in my life, and I am grateful to teachers, employers and my family for support and encouragement. We should accentuate the positives and say thanks to the teachers and lecturers at colleges and universities, as well as businesses and industries that invest in their staff and help them to advance in their careers.

I recognise that education alone will not be enough to transform social mobility; nor are the Government’s actions alone. As we continue our recovery from covid, the Government are spending record sums on apprenticeships, which play a key role in boosting social mobility, improving people’s skills, and increasing earnings and opportunities.

Health and Disability White Paper

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Tom Pursglove]

My hon. Friend is a brilliant champion for his constituents, and he is always arguing for improved employment opportunities for residents in his area. The Budget commitments, which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will no doubt touch on during today’s debate, amount to more than £500 million of employment support by 2025-26. That very much reflects the best practice that is being delivered out there in the country, building on it and cascading it further. I think it is fair to say that my hon. Friend’s constituents and mine, and those of hon. Members across this House, will feel the benefit of this work in the years ahead.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his answers on this important issue. Large numbers of my constituents have disabilities and are on benefits, and have understandable concerns, so I seek some reassurance. Will he outline whether greater financial incentives can be offered to employers to take time to put in place procedures to allow disabled people to be part of the team yet work from home? That would allow more people to overcome their physical restrictions and be a huge asset to a team, and thereby gain confidence and independence through employment.

[Tom Pursglove]

The hon. Gentleman is right to touch on the fact that disabled people contribute so much to our workplaces, and I want to extend their contribution further so that we can unleash the potential in our society. With the right help and support, we will build on the successes that we have seen in getting people into work. The target of getting 1 million more disabled people into work was met five years early, but that is not the end of the story.

We need to continue to move forward, which is why the hon. Gentleman is right to also touch on the support that we have in place and our work with employers. Access to Work is an important part of that, because it supports the physical things that people need in workplaces to facilitate employment opportunities. Another area that I am passionate about and want to look at closely, and relates to what the Chancellor said yesterday about occupational health, is what more we can do to improve soft skills for employers to ensure that they have good-quality workplace conversations to best support those who are coming to work for them, and those who work for them already.

Local Housing Allowance

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Elliott. I congratulate the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing this Westminster Hall debate. Northern Ireland has a totally different system, so I do not expect the Minister to answer any questions about Northern Ireland. This is a devolved matter on which the Assembly takes decisions. However, I want to support the hon. Member for Arfon by illustrating how the local housing allowance is causing similar difficulties in Northern Ireland. I put on the record that I concur with and fully support his comments on the difficulties in his constituency and in Wales, as well as remarks of the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) on the difficulties in England.

Housing allocation is done differently in Northern Ireland. The principle of shortfall housing allowance is a UK-wide issue, which is why I am here to support the comments. Almost 30,000 private renters in receipt of local housing allowance in Northern Ireland are facing a shortfall in their monthly rents. It is having a real effect. Among the biggest issues raised with my office are those of benefits and housing. If an issue combines both benefits and housing, that causes real difficulty. That is where I am.

I read an article this week that said that almost three quarters of housing benefit claimants living in private rented accommodation in Belfast are being charged more than their housing benefit allowance. This is replicated in Newtownards, the mainstay of my constituency, with a lack of one or two-bed properties meaning that people have to rent three-bed properties, which costs a lot for those on a smaller wage. In Northern Ireland and particularly in my constituency, rental accommodation costs far outstrip income and wages.

The local housing allowance in Ards is £83.53 per week, meaning a make-up of around £300 per month for those who rent accommodation. It takes a massive effort to squeeze the shortfall at a time when price rises are putting the pressure on. It is important to say that I recognise that the Government have taken many steps to try to help with the issue of price structures and increases, and I recognise the many good things that the Government have done. However, I think there needs to be a focus on this issue in particular, and I concur with the comments made by the hon. Member for Arfon and the right hon. Member for East Ham.

It is unsustainable for my constituents to have to make up £300 when the cost of gas and electric has trebled. Further information shows that in a workgroup covering Dunmurry and Lisburn—both in Northern Ireland—89.5% of claimants have a shortfall between the rent charged by their landlord and the applicable local housing alliance for the property occupied. That massive number indicates that this is an issue. Local housing allowance is used to calculate the level of housing benefit available to those living in the private rental sector. Over half of low-income renters—some 51%—surveyed across Great Britain in November said that their rent had increased. Research by Crisis on the cost of living provides a snapshot of the devastating impact of unaffordable housing. The hon. Member for Arfon illustrated that very well and evidentially in his contribution.

It is little wonder that we are in a housing crisis. In the past year alone, rents in Northern Ireland have risen at their fastest rate in 16 years, and have increased by an average of 11% across Great Britain. In the last year, listed rents in Scotland have increased by 13%, and by 15% in Wales. These are massive increases to try to keep track with. It has led to people applying for affordable social housing, which has in turn led to the Northern Ireland housing statistics for 2020-21 showing that some 44,000 people were on the Northern Ireland Housing Executive waiting list as of 31 March 2021. Of those 44,000, just over 30,000 are in housing stress. That means that three quarters of those people are in housing stress through attempting to address the issue of rent.

I will conclude, as I want to give the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) the chance to participate. For me it is abundantly clear that if we address the issue by making the local housing allowance come close to covering basic rent, we will allow those who are working and able to cover a small difference to come off the list, thereby allowing those who need full rent coverage to access social housing. Families are under pressure and inflation has risen, along with the price of groceries, energy and fuel. The price of every single item has increased. I heard on TV this morning that every foodstuff has increased by between 17% and 19% in the last few months. The rates will increase again this year. That automatically results in an increase in outgoings, but the incomings simply cannot meet the cost. That is a fact.

I agree with the assessment made by Crisis, which did a case study of a lady who could make her rent payments but could not afford to heat her home or eat three times a day. This is the depth of crisis that homelessness statistics do not show—those who have walls but do not have a home. That has to be addressed.

Single-Parent Families

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is not often I get called first in a debate in Westminster Hall. The reason I have been today is that I am the only Back Bencher —I hope that augurs better for the future. It was a pleasure to listen to the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan) putting forward the issues for single-parent families.

Over many years in my constituency, and particularly over the past three years, I have dealt with mothers who have valiantly looked after their children in the face of financial difficulties. The hon. Lady ably outlined that case and the problems for constituents, and I look forward to hearing what the two shadow Ministers—the hon. Members for Glasgow East (David Linden) and for Wirral South (Alison McGovern)—and particularly the Minister have to say. I am not saying that to give the Minister a big head, but because I believe he understands the issues we are referring to. I know from my deliberations with him, and from those of others, that he shows understanding and compassion, and provides help, for those who are under pressure, vulnerable and finding life difficult. When he responds at the end, I am fairly confident—without writing his script for him—that he will be able to address some of the issues and concerns that we have.

We stand up for these lone parents. Every Member here will be aware of the struggles they have had over the past couple of months and—let us be honest—over the past three years, as the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire mentioned. Covid brought the extra pressure of living together and not being able to go out. It brought the pressure of ill health and put pressure on finances, with people not being able to work and earn money for the family. Children must have the best start in life, and parents feel the utmost responsibility to ensure that they can give them that. Every parent—mum or dad—can give their child that start in life and put them on the road to a successful future.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Single parents want to be a good role model for their children but, in reality, they often experience long periods of unemployment, are unable to work all the hours they want, are forced to accept lower-paid jobs and may have to put their career aspirations aside in their child’s early years. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that the impact that that can have on a single parent’s mental wellbeing should not be overlooked? That would influence how the child feels in that relationship.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention. Yes, I do concur with that, because I have seen it in my constituency. People have come to me in times of torment and difficulty, when the pressure is very much upon them. With that in mind, we have to look not only at the financial help we give but at the broader picture of mental health and anxiety issues and at family support, when that is needed.

Parents’ guilt due to the current financial situation has left them no choice but to scrape their last pennies together to put a meal on the table. I am sorry to have to say that that is the reality. It is not the Government’s fault, by the way, but the nature of society and of what has happened over the past two or three years.

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Member for giving way. He is making an excellent speech, and we will all have heard many excellent speeches—as I am sure we will in this debate—about the experiences of single parents and their children. I am proud to be the child of a single mother. The hon. Member mentioned the word “guilt” and my mother grew up with a lot of guilt for being a single parent. Does he agree that we need to celebrate single parents? We need to support them and celebrate the diverse and different families we have—be that two mothers, two fathers, a mum and a dad, just a mum, just a dad, or those who are looked after. Single parents are truly heroes. We need to ensure that all Governments do everything they can to support them through what the hon. Member describes as incredibly difficult times.

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady brings personal experience to the debate, which we all acknowledge. At the end of my contribution I am going to say just how much I admire single parents. I want to say that because the ones I meet regularly in my office are the ones who deliver each week. They are the ones who scrape and save and perhaps go without a meal. They do not get the help they need, when they need it. The hon. Lady is right about the parents who struggle and scrape to save every penny. They also give a level of love and affection to their children that helps build them up to enter society.

It is always a pleasure to come and tell some stories from Strangford, in Northern Ireland. That is not because Strangford is any different from anywhere else, but because it replicates every other constituency across the whole of this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Office for National Statistics estimates that there are just under 3 million single-parent households across the UK, which equates to 15%. That is a big figure when we think of the pressures that those 3 million households are under.

[Amy Callaghan]

The hon. Member is a very good friend, and I thank him for giving way. On the note that all Members in this House have significant amounts of casework on this issue, does he recognise that they have cases relating to the CMS that have not been resolved over a number of years, because the Department is stalling on fixing the grave issues with the child maintenance system?

[Jim Shannon]

I do, and the Minister has responded on that on a number of occasions. I hope he will take the chance today to respond—I am quite sure he will. It is good to reinforce issues on behalf of our constituents. Child maintenance payments are incredibly difficult. Sometimes there is an absent father who, in drastic circumstances, may leave his job to reduce his income so that he does not have to give a contribution to his wife and children. I find that absolutely disgraceful. The hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire puts down a marker in relation to that.

There are fathers I have known over the years who seem to have a portfolio of buildings and properties but who for some reason do not make their child maintenance payments in the way they should. I find that incredibly frustrating. We are seeking from the Minister some methodology to feed in that information so that urgent action can be taken. I think that is what the hon. Member would like to see; it is certainly what I would like to see.

[Hannah Bardell]

I thank the hon. Member for being so generous with his time. I attended a Council of Europe event yesterday on the Istanbul convention and its importance. One of the issues that was raised by women from across Europe and beyond was the abuse of single parents, and particularly single mothers, through the court system by former partners. Does he agree that we need to ensure that every system in every Government supports mothers who are trying to protect their children from violent men?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I certainly do, and there is no excuse for not protecting them. I hope that there is understanding and compassion in the courts to ensure that families are protected—there needs to be. The anxiety of the occasion can also put extra pressure on families.

The latest data from the family resources survey found that 50% of single-parent families were claiming income-related benefits in 2020 and 2021. One of my staff members has been working for me for over 10 years as a benefits adviser. I could not do without her; her knowledge of the benefits system is phenomenal, as is the money that she is able to get for those who are under pressure. Mr Paisley, I think one of your staff members is equally helpful to you and has managed to get back a substantial, seven-figure amount. We cannot do without them. My staff member does her very best daily to advise and assist those single-parent families who are in need. There are many who are in need.

Single-parent families are over-represented among benefit claimants.  The survey also revealed that single parents are more likely to be in poverty. Child poverty levels in Northern Ireland are running at 30%. You and I know that, Mr Paisley, through our workloads in our offices. There is no doubt that single parents are in a highly difficult position. The cost of living has increased the price of more or less everything. No matter what it is, the price is up. Food, electricity, oil, gas, school uniforms, childcare and transport have all dramatically increased in price over the last couple of months. To be fair, that is due to many things beyond the Government’s control, including Ukraine, energy prices and other problems with the movement of goods.

I have said this before, but in my office I have seen an increase in the number of food-bank parcel referrals since last September and October. It is not just those in a lower income bracket, but those in the middle class who are affected. People I refer to as the working poor are also under pressure. I would go as far as saying that at the peak of the cost of living crisis, we were referring 30-plus families every week for assistance, when we used to refer around 10. The Thriving Life food bank tells me that out of all the referrals, the most come from my office. My staff are excellent at dealing with people in a compassionate way and assuring them of support. Vulnerable people feel that wee bit more confident when they leave the office with some way forward. We try to help them with that.

It saddens me that those who are in need are often embarrassed to ask for help. The hon. Member for Livingston (Hannah Bardell) is right. There should never be any shame in not having a level of income. Never should someone have to excuse themselves or apologise for that. When times are tough, we do our best to ease the burden on struggling families, especially single parents. It is my duty as an MP—as an elected representative—and as a person who has compassion, to respond positively and to help people whenever they need it.

I have heard of numerous child maintenance issues in my office over the last five years. The hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire referred to that. The main issue is that single parents simply do not feel that the payments are doing any justice, given how expensive things are. Whenever they get them, they are too small. Whenever they are agreed, they have not caught up with inflation. As another example, some parents look after their children and have them to stay six nights a week. They say to me that maintenance payments simply do not do any justice to the situation. I ask the Minister what extra help we can give to those families under financial pressure, particularly at this time.

The Department for Work and Pensions estimates that there are around 2.3 million separated families in Great Britain, and 3.6 million children living in such families. Here is a shocking figure: around 40% of those families were estimated to have no child maintenance arrangement at all. Wow—that is 40% of them with nowhere to go. I always ask questions to be constructive and helpful. What can the Government and the Minister do to help that 40% without child maintenance? Whether it is direct contact or special help for them, we certainly have much to do.

In Northern Ireland specifically, more than a quarter of the children born last year were born into a single-parent household. Just shy of 1,200 babies—5%—were registered by their mother alone with no record of a father, because that is what the person wanted. A further 5,154 babies—21%—had details of a dad, but one living at a different address. Those are probably most of the people who come to see me in my office.

Our social security and welfare state must do right by single parents. There should be no stigma or shame. The hon. Member for Livingston is right. Those people have come through hard times to rear a family when they were the only person producing anything in the house. Single parents do a fantastic job providing for their kids. That should never be taken away from them. Indeed, we should underline that and say how well they are doing to encourage them, give them confidence and help them move forward. Sometimes in life, people need that wee extra boost, extra nudge or bit of help. I underline that statement—they do a fantastic job providing for their kids, and that should never be taken away from them.

These are trying times. They are hard times. In my lifetime, it has never been like it has been over the last three to four years. We are living in an environment where parents—this is a fact—are skipping meals to ensure that their children are fed. That is the reality I deal with in my office every week.

Through my staff members who deal with benefit issues for my constituents in Strangford, I am aware that the UK social security system offers great support. We thank the Minister and the Government for what they are doing, but when we are confronted with extra problems, which are galloping away from us, we look to those who provide to help more.

It is important that those who are parenting individually know that they can turn somewhere for advice and support. Is there any direct help and support for those parents? They can turn to the offices of MPs and elected representatives and we then refer them to the Government for help as well. The rise in the cost of living is having an impact on everyone, but some are more vulnerable than others. We deal with the more vulnerable every day. We must do better to help them through.

The Minister is a compassionate man—one who feels for the vulnerable and hard-pressed single parents. I know he does, and I hope that he will outline a number of steps that he will take, which we can pass on to our constituents. I ask that all the information and all the help is made available so that we can help those who need help more.

On other subjects, we often say we are a voice for the voiceless. We are also a conduit—a door—for those who need help. I look to the Minister for support and help, so that we can grasp the way in which we can help our constituents to deal with the pressures of the day.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

As ever, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Paisley. I congratulate the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Amy Callaghan) on securing this important debate. She made a very good speech, highlighting many of the issues that single parents face. We also heard strong contributions from the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for Glasgow East (David Linden), who ran through a number of important issues.

My nan, who died in August, was made a single parent at the age of 40 by the sad death of my grandfather when my mum was 14. I saw her work her fingers to the bone for years. That is the main message of my contribution today: single parents in this country work so hard. They work hard to care for their kids and to bring them up really well, despite the odds sometimes being stacked against them, and they work really hard in their job, committing and offering their skills and talents, because they know that they have to work harder to get the same recognition. Single parents in the United Kingdom work really hard, and I think it is incumbent on the Government to support them a little better than is the case at the moment. It is with hope that I say that single parents work really hard and ought to be backed by the Government. I am pretty sure that the Minister will agree with that sentiment. It is a cross-party idea that single parents are deserving of our support, and I hope that he will agree with that, too.

Hon. Members have raised important issues about the Child Maintenance Service—what it does and does not do, how that could be improved and, if it were improved, how that would help with incomes. Members also raised matters relating to domestic abuse. We know that too many people are struggling and that, sometimes, the way the state operates does not help. But I want to focus on single parents in work, because, despite recent decreases in their employment, a large majority of single parents are working.

The Government often say that employment is the best route out of poverty. I worry that that is not true at the moment. I think we should want it to be true—I think that everyone deserves employment with dignity, self-respect and a decent pay packet. That is true for single parents just as it is for everybody else. Unfortunately, at the moment, 41% of children in working single-parent families are in poverty, including 27% of families where the parent is working full time and 54% where the parent is working part time. We have known for years that being part of a single-parent family puts a child at much greater risk of poverty, even where their parent is working hard. That is why we need to focus on the areas where we can remove barriers to work for single parents and, at the same time, think about how to get them better-paid jobs and help them to do more with their skills, so that their time and talent are not wasted.

[Jim Shannon]

I commend the hon. Lady on her excellent contribution. One issue, which the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) mentioned, is childcare. We hope that in the Budget tomorrow the Chancellor of the Exchequer might announce some extra help with that. Without that help, single parents are under even more severe financial pressure than other families, so that is really important.

[Alison McGovern]

Yes. If you are a single parent and you are on an income that is too low, what do you do? There are only so many hours in the day and somebody needs to care for the children while you are at work. Without a really good childcare system in this country, single-parent families are always going to be behind everybody else. There are myriad reasons why we need to sort childcare in the United Kingdom, and this is one of the key features. We have a shortage of people in the labour market, so we cannot let anybody’s time or talent go to waste.

Offshore Wind Farms: Health and Safety

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (Alba)]

A just transition was proclaimed when COP26 was held in Glasgow in 2021. While that global jamboree may have underwhelmed in so many respects, it was at the forefront in one aspect, for as we transition from fossil fuels to renewables, not just countries but businesses, communities and workers were to be supported. Entire industries require to be run down or forsaken and decent jobs given up, even lifelong careers; however, financial support was to be given to assist nations in that journey. As for workers, assurances were made that in the transition to net zero, they would be protected and long-held rights would be assured—justice for workers, as well as for our planet.

Those assurances were echoed outwith the global gathering, endorsed by the UK Government—they have since been championed by them in the green jobs taskforce—and chorused by the Scottish Government in their just transition commission. The rhetoric has been fairness and equity for those whose work would require to change. In Scotland and in the UK as a whole, the sector most affected is in the North sea. Though extraction of oil and gas is still required, we are on a journey to decarbonise and to transition to renewables; it is a transition, but it must be a just one. That sector has provided huge wealth and benefit to our society, and many who worked hard in those difficult and often dangerous conditions are now moving into renewables. Where once it was oil and gas, it is now becoming wind, wave and tidal—let us not forget that we recently had a Prime Minister who championed the UK as the Saudi Arabia of wind. It is a move that matters for our nations and will create wealth, as well as provide hope for our planet.

However, recent events in the North sea have revealed that while there is a transition in the economy, there is no just transition for those working in that new and growing sector—primarily in the maritime sector, where minimum wage law does not apply consistently and immigration law is used as a crude instrument to profit from seafarer exploitation. That, though, is a debate for another day. Tonight, I want to raise the issue of employment rights, especially the effectiveness of health and safety legislation that is too easily avoided. The lack of consistent and effective offshore safety legislation has been brought to light by a recent tragedy. We must hope that from that sorrow there will come some solace, with the existing legislative gap being remedied.

That legislative gap affects hundreds if not thousands of workers in the offshore energy supply chain, sailing out of not just existing offshore hubs such as Aberdeen or Dundee but Eyemouth, Montrose, Fraserburgh, Wick, Buckie, and other Scottish ports involved in delivering a successful offshore wind industry. It also affects those in England servicing energy installations in the North sea from Humberside, Tyneside, Teesside or East Anglia, along with those who will be embarking from Holyhead, Milford Haven, Mostyn and other ports in Wales. At present, the framework of statutory employment and seafarer rights on which that workforce will depend for their health and safety is not fit for purpose. A just transition was promised, and a just transition there must be for our maritime and offshore workers, as well as our planet.

Let me detail the tragedy which brought those failures to light. On Sunday 22 January, a man went missing from Valaris 121, a mobile offshore drilling unit being towed to Dundee and located some 98 miles from Aberdeen. Police Scotland investigated and while satisfied that no criminal investigation was required, had concerns regarding wider health and safety issues, which they referred to the Health and Safety Executive. This is something that the HSE would not normally investigate. That it did so here is perhaps indicative of the concerns that the police had raised, for it is not the same as an industrial accident on land. Neither is it similar to that on an oil or gas rig on the UK continental shelf, or even on a fixed or floating wind turbine in the UK exclusive economic zone.

HSE legislation has rightly been extended to cover workers’ rights, but it is incomplete and, as a result, workers are at greater risk. Mobile drilling units such as Valaris 121 are classified as a ship or a vessel when towed, meaning that they fall outwith HSE jurisdiction and within that of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency. Accordingly, while the HSE could and very likely would have carried out a full investigation had this incident been on land, a rig or even a turbine, it is restricted in what it can do in this instance. Likewise, a report that may have seen a fatal accident inquiry in Scotland or a coroner’s court hearing in England and Wales will not happen. Why is that? It is because it is not classified as a health and safety issue, giving the HSE authority. Instead, it is considered a maritime safety matter, and the MCA has authority and leads these investigations through the marine accident investigation branch.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing this matter forward. When it comes to health and safety, we are all concerned. Given the fact that the offshore energy created comes on land in Scotland and England, is there some role for the Health and Safety Executive, even though, as he has clearly outlined, the MCA takes precedence? If the energy is coming here and the workers work out of Scotland and England, is there not a responsibility?

[Kenny MacAskill]

As I will come on to say, the HSE does a good job onshore, on oil and gas and on turbines, but we require that its powers be extended. It is the agency. The MCA and the MAIB do a wonderful job in preserving life and ensuring wider maritime safety, but they are not qualified in industrial accidents; neither are employment laws within their remit. Fundamentally, and worsening that handicap in expertise, the MCA does not even have responsibility for the investigation, or jurisdiction over this incident. That is because it occurred outwith UK territorial waters, which extend to 12 miles. Beyond that distance, even when within the UK exclusive economic zone of 200 miles and on the UK continental shelf, incidents are subject to international maritime regulations, which prescribe that the investigating agency is to be from the vessel’s flag state. That is the country where the ship is registered.

Valaris 121 is registered in Liberia, a flag state managed in Virginia, USA. Accordingly, we have the absurdity of responsibility for an investigation and jurisdiction in enforcement for an incident leading to the death of a UK worker resting not with police or Crown, HSE or MCA, or even with an organisation based in Edinburgh or London, but in the flag state of Liberia, a country located on another continent. That country is one of the world’s largest shipping registers and is categorised by the International Transport Workers Federation as a flag of convenience. That means that employment and safety standards are at the international minimum and ship owners pay no tax to the Liberian state. That alone is a concern, as questions are sometimes raised regarding registration, let alone supervision.

Despite my asking numerous questions, the Government are unable to tell me how many vessels operating in the UK sector are foreign flagged. That should be a concern, as anecdotally it would seem that the vast majority are not registered under the red ensign, despite the Government’s obsession with wrapping things in the Union Jack.

The Lord Advocate advised that a multi-agency meeting took place to discuss the incident; it involved representatives of the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, the Health and Safety Executive, Police Scotland, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and the Republic of Liberia. They discussed who would have primacy in the various investigations. I do not know this, but I assume that it was a virtual meeting; likewise, I do not know who the representative from Liberia was, or what level of seniority they had. The Lord Advocate explained further that Police Scotland remains in charge of the missing person enquiry, though, sadly, the body may never be recovered.

The Lord Advocate confirmed that the HSE remained the lead agency for the investigation in Scotland and the UK—but doing what, and enforcing which laws? Is that because there is no one here from Liberia to do it, and because the only folk nearby are from the HSE? Will we simply see a report filed and no further action taken? More importantly, how does this address the failure to extend health and safety legislation for the oil and gas sector to the new world of offshore wind, other renewable energies and nascent green technologies such as hydrogen, carbon capture and storage and liquefied natural gas?

Leaving aside the good intentions of the Lord Advocate and the diligent work by the HSE, let us recall where jurisdiction and enforcement lie: with the flag state, Liberia. Let me again set out why that is—all this has been confirmed through repeated parliamentary answers from several Government Departments.

Health and safety legislation applies to workers on land and operating in UK territorial waters, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned; those territorial waters extend for 12 miles. The Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 (Application outside Great Britain) Order 2013 applies to oil and gas, and even turbines, but that is insufficient for the new sector, as I shall detail. Valaris 121 is classified as a vessel or ship, which means that it is not subject to that legislation. As the tragedy happened outwith UK territorial waters, it is classified as a maritime incident—hence the involvement of the flag state, and the absurdity of Liberian jurisdiction. The issue of the absence of health and safety rights goes far wider than this incident or this vessel. It goes to the very heart of how the new sector to which we are transitioning operates.

As disclosed in parliamentary answer 139284 from the Department for Work and Pensions, under the 2013 order, health and safety protection applies to those operating in the offshore wind sector when on a “structure or machine”; the provisions apply to

“structures for the production of energy from wind”,

and to

“the operation of a cable for transmitting electricity from an energy structure.”

All well, one might think, but no; the legislation goes on to specifically state:

“Ships are not defined as energy structures for the purposes of this legislation.”

Therein lies the injustice of this North sea tragedy. It also shows that current provisions are incapable of providing the protections required for workers in this new sector. There are two clear reasons for that. First, few people work on a turbine; it is accessing, maintaining and supporting turbines that matters. Workers do not live on them, as they do on oil and gas rigs—or at least not yet, and if that changed, living accommodation would likely be confined to flotels, special operation vessels and other entirely separate solutions. If protection is provided only when people are physically working on the turbine, that totally ignores the nature of both the job and the sector.

Secondly, Valaris is classified as a vessel or ship, but she is not what most imagine a vessel or ship to be, as she is designed as a working platform. Some workers will be drilling, and others will be working while attached to a turbine. If they are physically attached to the turbine, then they are covered, but when they are travelling to the turbine or back, or even if they are proximate to it but not physically attached to it—that will likely be the bulk of the work—they are not.

The current legislation fails to take account of the operation of and working practices in offshore wind. It is an expanding and developing sector, which means that people are being denied cover in aspects of the work that lack protections. The danger is that this tragedy might be replicated, and oft times more, given the expansion of the sector. Health and safety protections that apply for oil and gas must be available for offshore wind and other renewables.

I have had discussions with Offshore Energies UK, which takes safety extremely seriously, as the House would expect, and it has indicated an acceptance of the gap and a willingness to assist in resolving the situation. To address it, the definition of energy structures under the 2013 order needs to be extended, and legislation to protect seafarers operating in the offshore wind sector needs to be enacted, but so far the DWP has failed to show any interest. Will the Minister agree to meet me and worker representatives to discuss this? There must be a just transition for our planet, but there must also be a just transition for workers, and this most certainly is not a just transition in the offshore wind sector.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

No, but you did stand at the beginning. In that case, I call somebody who is always going to stand: Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is very important that all benefit fraud is taken on board, but many times in my constituency over the past few years, people have inadvertently filled in forms incorrectly and have found themselves having to pay money back. May I ask that compassion be shown to those who have inadvertently done wrong but realised they have to pay back, to ensure that they can pay back at a level they can afford?

Saving for Later Life

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2023 Westminster Hall

[Sir Stephen Timms]

That is very important. We are expecting quite significant progress on the dashboard this year. The Select Committee will, I hope, be taking evidence about that in a session quite soon. That will be an important step, when it finally becomes available.

We recognised in our report that with the cost of living crisis now is not the right time to increase everybody’s pension contributions, but the ground needs to be prepared for increases in future. To quote the Financial Inclusion Commission, we need a “light bulb moment” to alert employers and the public to the gravity of the current under-saving problem. We need to start building a new consensus on what an adequate retirement income is and what is needed to deliver it.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the right hon. Member on bringing this forward. It is not just about the workers of today; we must start earlier. I know he has probably commented on that, but there have been numerous surveys. One, undertaken by Deloitte, states that younger people do not have a sound understanding of things such as ISAs, saving pots or pension pots. We must also note that some teenagers as young as 14 have jobs, so they should be knowledgeable about pensions and savings. Does he agree that consideration should be given to incorporating these matters into learning for life and work modules in schools across the UK nationally? Start it early, because that is when we build for the future.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. It is helpful for people at school to develop an understanding of financial matters. Even a fairly brief exposure to these matters at school can be really helpful in forming an understanding that serves people well throughout their future working lives.

In their response to our call for work to start building this consensus, the Government said they had a range of metrics for adequacy, but that misses the point. Will Ministers work with others to identify what an adequate retirement income is, and will they then start laying the ground for sufficient saving to deliver it? The Department’s own analysis in 2017 was that 12 million people were under-saving—that is about 38% of the working-age population. Some 1.5 million were substantially under-saving. The Minister’s predecessor, the hon. Member for Hexham, told us that the number of under-savers was “up for debate” but “clearly substantial”. He said the Government would carry out further analysis and keep the Committee informed. When will the Department produce new estimates of the extent of under-saving? When will it publish its research on the pension saving issues for people with low incomes?

The 2017 auto-enrolment review recommended first lowering the minimum age at which a worker must be auto-enrolled from 22 to 18. Secondly, it recommended

“removing the lower limit of the qualifying earnings band”—

which is £6,240 at the moment—so that contributions are paid on the whole of somebody’s earnings. We heard there was “almost universal support” for thus helping people poorly served by the current system—in particular, low-paid or part-time workers—and we recommended doing so. In response, the Government restated their commitment to implementing the 2017 review in the mid-2020s, saying:

“We aim to bring forward legislation at a suitable opportunity and when parliamentary time allows.”

Well, the mid-2020s are approaching rapidly. We need legislation this year if that is to be achieved, and I would welcome any encouragement that the Minister can give us about the prospects for that.

A second big problem is tackling exclusion from auto-enrolment. As I have said, auto-enrolment has reversed the decline in the number of employees saving in a pension. By contrast, there has been a big fall in self-employed pension savings, from about 48% in the 1990s to 16% now. We have known about that for some time; indeed, the Department’s response to the 2017 auto-enrolment review said that it was

“a significant and complex strategic problem”,

which is a fair comment.

A lot of people giving evidence to our inquiry argued for mirroring auto-enrolment, using the tax or national insurance system to auto-enrol self-employed people. It is very disappointing that the Government have no plans to do either of those things. Instead, they say that they favour prompts and nudges through accountancy, plus opportunities from the Making Tax Digital programme, but none of that will be enough. Can the Minister tell us when the Department plans to report back on those efforts? I am afraid they are doomed to fail.

A key part of our report focused on the gig economy. The 2021 Uber case suggested to some people that auto-enrolment might be opened up to all workers, but there are big enforcement challenges. Uber gave us compelling evidence and told us about its auto-enrolment model for drivers, which it had invited competitors to join. None of them has done so yet. The Government say that many gig economy workers are already eligible for auto-enrolment, including fixed-term contract, zero-hours and agency workers. The Pensions Regulator ought to be securing employer compliance, but it told us about a “significant evidential burden”. It told us that employers routinely challenge it at every stage and that the guidance issued by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy last July did not help.

Uber and the GMB trade union called on the Government to legislate for better enforcement, with a new body for that purpose. We repeated the recommendation that we made in two previous reports for an employment Bill to address these issues. We have no idea why that Bill has not been forthcoming. In their response, the Government referred to their backing for five private Members’ Bills on a range of employment issues. Those are all no doubt helpful, but none of them helps with delivering auto-enrolment in the gig economy. We called for the Department to work with the Pensions Regulator to estimate, first, how many people in the gig economy should be workers for auto-enrolment purposes and therefore should be auto-enrolled, and, secondly, what resources or powers the Pensions Regulator needs to make sure that employers comply with their obligations, which they are most certainly not doing at the moment. I hope the Minister will be able to tell us something about what the Government will do to stop people working in the gig economy missing out on their entitlement.

The third important gap was referred to in evidence to us from a number of bodies, including Age UK, which told us the gender pensions gaps remains a serious problem. It reflects differences in labour market participation and hits women at retirement, when there is very little they can do about it. Nobody in government produces any data on the gender pensions gap, so the Prospect trade union produced a definition. It suggested the definition should be the percentage difference in average gross pension income for men and women receiving the state pension, and it currently estimates the gap to be 37.9%. There has been very little progress in reducing that since Prospect started reporting five years ago.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hosie. I congratulate the Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), on securing the debate. As a member of the Backbench Business Committee, I thank him for applying for time for us to have a debate on this important topic.

Pension debates are bit like buses: we have had none for ages, and now we have had three in the last four sitting days, so we can certainly explore the topic thoroughly. By some fluke, we have ended up with all the key planks of pensions status being considered over the last few days. We looked at the age at which people should get their state pension and, last night, we looked at increasing pensions to keep them in line with inflation, which is key plank. If we are going to have a model where the state pension should be enough to keep people out of poverty in retirement, and after that is up to people to save for the kind of living that they want, we need to ensure the minimum floor is in the right place. We should welcome the fact the Government did that last night.

However, that leaves our whole pension-saving approach relying on how much people and their employers save for their own retirement. It is almost impossible to avoid the conclusion that people are simply not saving enough. The vast majority of people who work now are not saving enough, and the younger they are the more likely they are not to be saving enough.

The situation is stark. Around 28% of employees are still in defined benefit schemes, mainly in the public sector. Some 87% of those get an employer contribution of over 12% of their pay. However, for the 51% of people in defined contribution schemes, that number falls to 9%, so 91% of people in defined contribution schemes are not getting an employer contribution that is anything like the level that they used to have, or the level that we get.

The situation for the self-employed, as the Chair of the Select Committee set out, is even worse, as only 16% of self-employed people are saving anything like a material amount in a pension. Despite the incredible growth in the employed having a pension, that number for the self-employed is down from 48% 20 years ago, so they are going in the wrong direction. I suspect that is mostly because there is now a lot more self-employment in the gig economy. We can argue whether they are really self-employed, but they are the ones without any pension provision at all. There is clearly a huge problem, and we need to find a way to solve it.

Auto-enrolment was a tremendous start, getting people who were not saving anything to at least save something. The problem, of course, is that they are not saving anything like enough, and they probably do not even know that. The reason why auto-enrolment was chosen and was such a great success was that it did not require any engagement from the individual. In some ways, engagement is a bad thing, because if they do not know that this money is being taken from them and put in a pension scheme, they will not opt out.

We are trying to build a model that requires engagement to boost savings levels on a model where success was based on not having very much engagement. That is a real problem that we must wrestle with carefully. We do not want people to start opting out, but we do want them to realise that they are not going to have much quality of life in retirement if they do not do something materially different.

That brings us to two initiatives. The first is the dashboard and the second is access to guidance. There is a general consensus that the dashboard will be great, and that it will move us forward by enabling people to understand how much they have got in savings. It would be helpful if the Minister could give an update on when people will have live access that enables them to see at least the majority of the pensions they have saved for in their life. I think we would all accept that it is better to have it later than to have something that is rubbish, but let us not have perfection delay it too far. There probably will be some pensions schemes that will not be able to meet any kind of realistic starting date soon, but they will have so few savers in them that there will not be a problem for the vast majority. I hope that some time next year, people will have live access so that they can find out how much pension saving they have.

Having spent years working out the mechanics and how to make the system safe, what we really need to fix is what people will see when they go on the pensions dashboards. Will the Minister set out the process and her vision for it? People need a clear statement of what they have already saved and some objective, fair and consistent comparison with what they need to have saved, what other people have saved by that time and what they are on track to achieve. Otherwise, they will just see a large-looking pot of money. For someone with no other savings, having 20 grand in their pension might look like they are rich and everything is going to be fine.

[Jim Shannon]

I want to pick up on the point about national insurance contributions, and ladies who thought they were on a pension scheme that would reward them when they reached pension age. As an elected representative, I have had a number of constituents come forward over the past few years to tell me that, as they were part-time workers, their national insurance stamps were paid only for a certain period of time. That means that when they reach pension age, their pension is not there for them, although their understanding was that they would have a pension. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that for ladies of the generation now coming to pension age who will not have a pension because they have not paid their national insurance contributions to their full entitlement, the Government should make people more aware so that they can take steps early?

[Nigel Mills]

Yes, the hon. Gentleman is right that we need people to understand if they have gaps in their state pension record. That can be found relatively straightforwardly on the state pension system. The dashboard will need to show the state pension entitlement. I urge ladies who might be in that situation to check, because they ought to have got credits while they were receiving child benefit. They might not have been working, but they had other caring responsibilities. It is always worth checking whether they have entitlements of which they may not be aware, and which the system has not picked up.

Back to my theme on the dashboard: for the dashboard to have the impact we want—for people to change their saving behaviour—the information needs to be there. It needs to say, “Yes, you have saved this amount, but most people by your age have saved this amount. If you want to have £10 grand of extra income in retirement over your state pension, you are not on track to do that, and you need to increase your saving.” We need to find a way to give people a context for their savings information. Otherwise, we will have a meaningless number that might not drive behaviour. It might even perversely make people think they are better off than they are.

It is important to understand what the Government and the regulators will allow to be shown and want to be shown. We must ensure that the data is objective, fair, accurate and preferably consistent, because we do not want people to get slightly different pension target across six schemes; they should be told the same information so they can make an accurate comparison.

The second area is the thorny issue of access to guidance and when people should have it. The Work and Pensions Committee has argued with the Government and the regulator about that for a few years. I hope the noises coming out of the Government about trying to get people who are not in economic activity back into work, and about wanting to do more than a midlife MOT or a financial review, mean that they are moving our way now, but the take-up of Pension Wise has been far lower than everybody wanted it to be. The Minister at the time said that Pension Wise take-up should be the norm. I am not sure how 8% or 14% take-up could be described as the norm; I would have thought that the norm would be just below half, or something. Perhaps the Minister can tell us what she thinks the norm is in that context.

There is no room for doubt: even with the stronger nudge that the Money and Pensions Service is trialling, Pension Wise will not get anywhere near that take-up. It is absolutely right that people should have access to that service when they are about to do something with their pension pot. It is a decision that they will not be able to change for the rest of their life, and if they get it wrong, it could be disastrous. Equally, given that we have so much unused take-up, can we not find a way of getting people to access the scheme earlier, soon after their 50s? That would allow them to get a proper review for half an hour or an hour and have all these things explained to them, so they can see what their situation is while they still have a chance to change it, rather than when it is too late? I am old enough to remember “Bullseye”—at the end of the show they used to say, “Here’s what you could have won.” Having a pension review at the age of 65 and a half that says, “Here’s what you could have had if you had saved a bit more,” is not all that helpful to people, so they should get that intervention earlier.

I was a little disappointed by the Government’s response to the Work and Pensions Committee. They said they did not want to go forward with a trial of auto-enrolling people into a Pension Wise appointment shortly after their 50th birthday. I understand that some pension schemes are willing to put their members forward in some sensible, random way so we can find out whether that works. All we are asking the Government to do is to allow MaPS and regulators to commission one of those trials so that we can see whether enrolling people into an appointment in their early 50s gets positive feedback and changes their behaviour. If it does not work, fine—we will have to find some other way—but it looks to be a low-cost way of seeing whether an intervention might work. It would use capacity that is already there and is not being taken up, and it would be a powerful way forward.

I hope that the Minister will be a bit more supportive than her predecessor. If we want to work out how to give people some kind of nudge, hint or push at an age when they can make a change, that is the best idea out there. If the Government are looking for ideas to get people in that age bracket to come back into work, because they have not saved enough for retirement but they think they have, a half-hour or hour session with an expert who can explain what they really need and what they have really got may be the best way of doing it. The online midlife MOT that the Government have produced contains some very useful information—I am not saying it is a bad thing—but it will not change behaviour. It is not an intervention that will really make a difference.

Social Security and Pensions

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[David Linden]

Yes, I think we are going to have a political “Lady and the Tramp” moment where we actually agree on this. There will be spaghetti across the House. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We need to be in a situation where we encourage all our constituents to take up pension credit. Having met the Minister fairly recently—

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

rose—

[David Linden]

I will give way to my very honourable Friend.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. In my constituency, my staff and I encourage all the pensioners we meet every week to look at pension credit. Some will qualify and some will not. Today, Citizens Advice came to me to say it is going to start a project in Newtownards in my constituency and I look forward to that unfolding. Does he feel that the Government should focus attention specifically on pension credit, because there are many people out there who would apply if they knew more about it?

[David Linden]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I think I am unique in that I am one of the few people who serve as a Member of this House who has been in his constituency office and spoken to his constituency staff—some of us go on holiday to places like Newtownards. He is absolutely right. I ask the Government to put just as much effort into advertising things like pension credit take-up as they do into propaganda-like billboards in our constituencies about levelling up. If that amount of resource were put into advertising pension credit, perhaps we would see it go further.

The British Government’s assault on pensioners does not just extend to the pitiful state pension. Let us not forget that the Tories also scrapped free TV licences for over-75s, including in Broadland. People who watch on and see the Westminster incompetence of this place will know that pensioners across these islands have already been short-changed by £6,500 on average due to state pension underpayments. Peter Schofield, the permanent secretary at the DWP, recently told our Select Committee that—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate and add a Northern Ireland perspective, as I always try to do both here and in Westminster Hall. Right hon. and hon. Members have set out well the state of the country’s finances for many people. I wish to put on record, and I think it is right that I do so, my thanks to the Government, and the Minister in particular, for coming forward with proposals that help.

I want to make four points in my contribution. A Presbyterian sermon is three points, and I will make four; I am not sure whether that makes my speech a sermon, but it is Presbyterian plus one.

[John McDonnell]

I think that makes you a Catholic, Jim!

[Jim Shannon]

You be careful, boy.

I am very pleased to add my contribution to the debate. Inflation and the cost of living are really hurting people in Northern Ireland. The right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) set the scene when he referred to child poverty and adult poverty in Northern Ireland, and he was right. I have a staff member who deals with nothing else but benefits, five days a week, and other staff members fill in. That gives an idea of the poverty and disability issues in Northern Ireland and why it is important for me to sow into this debate.

While I thank the Government, and the Minister in particular, for what they have put forward, and it is good to have that, I must first make the point from a Northern Ireland perspective that—as has probably become accepted in this House after so many debates—the Northern Ireland protocol has increased our outgoings substantially more than those anywhere on the mainland UK. The haulage costs and the prices of covering payroll have lessened the numbers of suppliers who will ship to Northern Ireland. That being the case, it becomes much harder to source competitively priced items. While this debate is about how we can help people on social security and improve their standard of living, we must recognise that costs in Northern Ireland are higher than anywhere else.

I read an interesting report back in October in the Belfast Telegraph that stated:

“Average weekly grocery spend is the third highest in the UK for shoppers in Belfast and Derry, according to new research by financial hub Admirals Group.

Shoppers in Northern Ireland’s two biggest cities are reportedly paying £77.70 on average for their weekly grocery shop in 2022, forecast to rise to £179.06 by 2030”—

well over twice the price. The report added:

“Only shoppers in London and Southampton are said to be paying more for their weekly shopping”.

That illustrates clearly that we in Northern Ireland are paying more. When it comes to social security and the benefit cap, we must register our concern that it is more costly to live in Northern Ireland than in other parts of the United Kingdom.

The lowest prices were said to be in Leeds and Sheffield—so at least they will have some benefit—and the same report stated:

“In 2021 the average British household spent £69.20 on groceries each week…If inflation were to remain constant at 11%, by 2030, the average grocery shop for a UK household could cost £177.02 per week, £771.28 per month and £9,204.84 per year.”

Those on benefits in Northern Ireland face a real anomaly. It is dearer to live in Northern Ireland; it is dearer to warm our homes and it is dearer to buy our groceries. That means that someone on benefits in Northern Ireland cannot expect their money to go as far as someone in one of the other constituencies in the UK represented in this House today.

While it is right and proper that benefits are uplifted to enable people to buy the bare necessities, the protocol means that those are not even covered by this uplift. The girls in my office referred almost double the number of people to the food bank coming up to Christmas this year, an indication that for many people any additional pressure on finances, such as to buy a small gift or a special meal, just cannot be managed.

The first Trussell Trust food bank that ever came to Northern Ireland came to Newtownards in my Strangford constituency. It has found a place and it is doing excellent work, and I support it very much, as indeed does the community. I am one of the referral points, so when it comes to understanding why people are going to food banks I can categorically state that it is not just those on the minimum wage, but those in the middle class, who I refer to as the working poor. The extra referrals, and we have had somewhere in the region of 30% or 35% extra just this last Christmas, tell me not only that the work of the food bank is important, but that there are different people going there. Again, that comes down to the cost of living, especially for those on benefits in Northern Ireland.

I am thankful for the food bank and to the social supermarkets, which are also doing fantastic work in seeking to help people make their money stretch further by teaching budgeting and different ways of purchasing. However, money is not elastic—it can only stretch so far. It is clear that the Government must bridge the gap, and by the same token we must lower the threshold to allow more people to access the help they are entitled to.

Having posed my first question to the Minister on behalf of the citizens of Northern Ireland about how they are finding it harder to beat the inflation that makes foodstuffs and heating more expensive there, I have a second question for him. For example, someone who is £5 above the threshold for universal credit will have missed out on the cost of living payment and will need the same help to pay the same amount for groceries as someone who is just below that threshold. We often find people who fall between two stools, and clearly those people do, so I want to make the point, as others in have in this debate, that they need help. I know the Minister always tries to respond, so I look forward to his response.

My third point is that I will hopefully bring a ten-minute rule Bill to the Floor of this House at some stage in the near future to make meaningful change to the child benefit threshold. Those disingenuous thresholds, which bear no relation or relevance to the cost of living and life, must be reviewed, and the same consideration must be given to the benefits threshold. We had a debate in Westminster Hall last Thursday, led by the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day), in which he raised a clear issue: two people in one house can earn £49,000 each, or collectively £98,000, and their child benefit will not change. However, one person in another house who earns £52,000 and whose partner earns £10,000, so that they earn £62,000 collectively, will see their child benefit change. There is clearly an anomaly in the threshold, and there needs to be a change of direction and some clarity to ensure that those who find themselves disadvantaged in that way are taken care of.

I make a special request, as others have done. Last week, we had a Westminster Hall debate on cystic fibrosis and living costs. Those with disabilities, such as those with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease or those who need oxygen 24/7, have higher costs. I quote some figures from that debate:

“People with CF have higher food bills because they need a higher calorie intake to maintain a healthy weight, and higher energy bills because they need to keep their homes warm to stave off lung infections and they may need to power an additional fridge to store sterile medications or essential medical devices such as ventilators.”—[Official Report, 2 February 2023; Vol. 727, c. 169WH.]

While this 10% increase is welcome, I ask the Minister very respectfully what can be done for those people with disabilities who are feeling the pain more than most.

In my opinion, and I believe others agree, a society is always marked by how it looks after those who are less well off. Our job in this House is to ensure that those who are finding these times particularly difficult—there are many of them across the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—are looked after. That is my fourth request of the Minister.

While I welcome the increase, we are missing out those middle-of-the-road working people who are struggling and scraping by, week to week. I ask the Government to make their next priority the squeezed middle class, and those who need help and just cannot get to the level they would expect.

Child Maintenance Services

Jim Shannon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Mims Davies]

Yes. To be clear, yesterday afternoon we went through the review step by step and took on board some of the feedback. On recommendation 10, there is some feedback with regard to timelines and implementation that I need to take to my noble Friend to try to unpick some of the questions that were raised yesterday and have been raised during this debate. On the review and the taskforce, we are aware of what has been reported today. I am keen to look at that because, again, it has been picked up today. I hope that clarifies things for the hon. Gentleman. [Interruption.] Yes and no, then.

As I say, in the Government’s response we were keen to ensure progress, to ensure that parliamentary scrutiny and engagement with stakeholders occurred, and absolutely to look to what the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw mentioned. I hope that we will find, in essence, a middle way. I cannot speak too roundly for my noble Friend, but I am very keen to engage on this matter.

On the wider recommendations, I am engaging in this place on the question of amending the legislation to prevent direct pay from being used as a form of coercion and control. The removal of the requirement to report domestic abuse to qualify for the application fee waiver has been accepted. On piloting the use of dedicated caseworkers for complex domestic abuse cases, that is absolutely something that we will bring forward. In addition, the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross asked about reviewing the calculation formula to ensure affordability for low-income paying parents and including a broader range of agencies in CMS training, as did many of the charities and organisations I spoke with, and Dr Callan recommended that too.

Crucial work is being done both in the review and through the two private Members’ Bills mentioned by the hon. Member for Westminster North. The Bill promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye, which is supported by the Government, will help to ensure that anyone using the service who has suffered any form of domestic abuse can feel safe and be reassured that their case will be handled sensitively and efficiently.

I would like to outline some improvements we have made in the CMS area, but I want first to cover a few other points that have been made. The hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross mentioned training. The CMS reviewed its domestic abuse training in 2021, with input from Women’s Aid, but it has been challenged about whether that is enough to ensure that our caseworkers are fully equipped to support parents in these multiple and challenging vulnerable situations. Some aspects of the training teach caseworkers how to recognise the various forms of domestic abuse, as well about checking on previous reports of abuse and providing appropriate signposting to domestic abuse support groups.

Following the independent review of the ways in which the CMS supports survivors of domestic abuse, the CMS will review the training to ensure that it is up to date and fully in line with best practice. The CMS also uses a complex needs toolkit for its caseworkers, which includes clear steps to follow to support customers who are experiencing abuse. The CMS will continue to review and evaluate the effectiveness of the guidance and training with regard to domestic abuse.

Issues around enforcement have been raised in the debate—certainly by the hon. Member for Weaver Vale, who mentioned deductions from earnings. Deductions from earnings orders have proved efficient and effective as a tool for collecting child maintenance. In the quarter ending September 2022, almost half of child maintenance —£29 million—was collected from paying parents who had a deduction from earnings order in place at the end of the quarter. We are working closely with employers to ensure that they understand their legal obligations and to help them to collect and pass on payments to the CMS much more quickly.

On minimum payments, operating a scheme in which the Government guarantee child maintenance payments is not the intent of CMS policy. The role of the CMS is to encourage parents to take financial responsibility for their children. However, as I say, we are often in a very challenged place when managing this issue. In the UK, CMS payments do not have any impact on the money received from other benefits, which has a positive impact on child poverty.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I apologise to you, Mr Twigg, and to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone); I was in the main Chamber for questions and could not be here earlier, although I wanted to be here and I had a speech prepared.

May I ask about how we chase those who are reluctant to make child maintenance payments? In most cases they are men, and in many cases they are self-employed. I know of cases in which they return end-of-year statements that show minimal income yet live in half a million pound houses—paid for—and have top of the range cars that are worth perhaps £60,000. Their assets and quality of living would indicate that their income is far above what they declare. Is there any way that those cases can be looked at? I apologise to the Minister for not being here at the beginning of the debate.

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Gentleman was clearly double parked this afternoon—in two places at once. I will come on to his point; I will try to cover that for him.

The Child Support Collection (Domestic Abuse) Bill, the private Member’s Bill promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye, would amend the grounds for transferring people from direct pay to the collect and pay service in order to allow victims of domestic abuse to be transferred to collect and pay, and consideration is being given to exempting parents transferred for that reason from collection charges. The Bill will have its Report stage on 3 March, and I encourage Members to participate in that debate if they are able to.

Let me turn to unearned income, which has been mentioned this afternoon. The Government’s response to the consultation “Child Maintenance: modernising and improving our service” was published in March 2022. Currently, for certain taxable income a parents earns, such as income from property or investments, either parent must ask for that to be taken into account in the calculation. Our intention is to change the approach so that unearned income is identified at the initial case set-up stage and included in the calculation at that point. That will provide a more accurate reflection of the paying parent’s overall income; as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) alluded to, there are certainly concerns that that is not always the case. The change will require amendments to the legislation that governs the Child Maintenance Service, and we are exploring how that could be implemented. I shall come on to enforcement.

Hon. Members raised the issue of the 4% collection fee for the receiving parent, which is a contribution to the cost of using the collect and pay service. The fee is taken only from any maintenance received. The CMS often has to take action to secure child maintenance payments in the collect and pay service. There is a balance here, with the taxpayer subsidising a difficult service, but the fee acts as a nudge to encourage people to consider whether a voluntary arrangement can be made, whereby there are no fees to pay. However, I have heard hon. Members’ concerns about the fee.

With regard to the NAO findings on effective arrangements, the CMS is designed, as I have said, to encourage people to agree their own family-based arrangement. Some 40% of parents are now doing that, compared with just 29% before the CMS was established. This is a better system for children and families, and for the taxpayer. It is vital that we continue to push for such engagement.

[Jim Shannon]

I again apologise for not being here to get the full gist of what the Minister and others have said. Over the years, I have had some ladies come and tell me that their husband has transferred their house, their rental properties and everything else into his mum’s and dad’s names; the husband has actually moved out of the property that they were living in to live with their mum and dad. Quite clearly, that is an abdication of responsibility by those men. Is there a mechanism within the changes and the new legislation that the Minister has outlined to ensure that those people who blatantly and systematically try to avoid making payments for their children can be caught?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and I completely agree with him. The lengths that some parents will go to are astounding, which is why we support the work by my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) on this issue.

At the end of the day, we all should be responsible parents who do the right thing. We know that the vast majority of parents want to do the right thing and do it. However, it is absolutely clear that some people are prepared to do something very different. We need to ensure that child maintenance is paid. That is appropriate, because we know—I have reiterated this point today—the difference that it makes.

Where a parent fails to pay on time or in full, the CMS takes a proportionate approach. Importantly, it first tries to re-establish compliance. That gives the parent the opportunity to get back on track and to prevent the build-up of arrears. There are two different sorts of cases—those where people actively avoid payment, and those where people find that their circumstances change—and we need to be cognisant of that.

Where somebody consistently refuses to meet their obligations towards their children, the CMS will be robust in using enforcement measures. As I have said, it has powers to make deductions from earnings, bank accounts and certain benefits. It can also use enforcement agencies—previously known, in old language, as bailiffs—to take control of goods, and it has the power to force the sale of property. Baroness Steadman-Scott encouraged the CMS to be bold in using its enforcement powers and to leave no stone unturned to ensure that youngsters are adequately protected, supported and provided for. The hon. Member for Strangford outlined very important action that the CMS has to take, although it must be balanced in its approach. I know that some paying parents whose circumstances change wish for that to be understood more fully.

We are absolutely committed to the highest standard of engagement in terms of the customer experience, which has been raised today, with a focus on getting back to people and communicating better, and making digital improvements so that people can update us and engage with us more quickly. The phone line has been mentioned today, but customers can also apply online; indeed, over 90% of applications are now made digitally, which makes it easier for parents to access support. There is now an online service—My Child Maintenance Case—that allows customers to access and maintain data themselves. Parents can now report 20 different changes of circumstances online, and automation means that it will be much quicker for them to manage their arrangement.

Key changes have also been made to help people arrange child maintenance. A more accessible, 24/7 digital service helps customers try to work out the most suitable arrangement for them. It is a more modern, flexible service for the majority of customers and ensures that our caseworkers are able to focus on the most complex cases and the ones with which parents need more support and engagement.

In this conflicted parental environment and in supporting troubled families, customer satisfaction is key. We are reviewing the customer service framework through the digitalisation and transformation programmes. There is a focus on gathering customer insight and perception. Anecdotes from Members of Parliament are key, but it is important that we use that voice and change things in real time more quickly. The CMS recently piloted real-time customer feedback to better understand the customer experience and is now supporting a wider roll-out. We are focused very much on efficiency and improvements, and of course the review that I have responded to today and the two private Members’ Bills will help.

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Mims Davies]

I will take one final intervention and then I will try to conclude.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister is being most generous—I want to put that on the record. Another concern that my constituents tell me about is the time it takes for an investigation to start and conclude. In the changes that the Minister has referred to, which I welcome, by the way, will a timescale be put on an investigation so that a lady who applies for a benefit can say, “In three months’ time”—or whatever the time is—“I will have this concluded”?

[Mims Davies]

That is a really important point, and I will take it away with me. This is often something that we hear from constituents in the process: “How does it work? How long will it take? What can I expect?” Certainly when it comes to supporting families, I can understand the point that the hon. Gentleman raises.

I want to conclude by saying that I appreciate all the insights and engagement from across the Chamber this afternoon. The response to the CMS independent review has been roundly welcomed by the sector and many of those who have heard some of our response today. I look forward to engaging further. I can assure hon. Members that although responsibility for the policy sits predominantly in the other place, there is interest across both Houses. That will not change as we try to support and help youngsters and families in these difficult times.

I thank Members for the opportunity to respond to this debate. I have tried to cover most of their points and I thank them for their constructive and helpful feedback. The DWP and the CMS will follow reports by the all-party group and other with great interest, and will always do what is best to support families and youngsters to get the best opportunities by working together.