British Sign Language Week

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 20th March 2025 Westminster Hall

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

Before we begin, I point out that a British Sign Language interpretation of proceedings is available to watch on parliamentlive.tv. There are also British Sign Language interpreters in the room for the benefit of those watching from the Gallery. I appreciate that some Members will wish to use sign language during their contributions; I ask them to keep that limited and brief, so as not to creation confusion with the other interpretations available.

[Jen Craft (Thurrock) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered British Sign Language Week.

[In British Sign Language: I beg to move, That this House has considered British Sign Language Week.]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I thank those who have supported today’s debate: the hon. Members who sponsored my application to the Backbench Business Committee; the members of the newly formed all-party parliamentary group on British Sign Language, who had ideas for how to celebrate Sign Language Week; and the British Deaf Association, which campaigns tirelessly to promote the interests of the deaf community. I am delighted that we have live British Sign Language interpretation today, and I am grateful to the House authorities for supporting it. It means that we are able to have members of the deaf-signing community join us in the Public Gallery. [In British Sign Language: Welcome to Parliament, and I hope you enjoy the debate.]

As the theme of this year’s Sign Language Week captures well, BSL is more than a language. For the 87,000 first-language signers in the UK, it represents culture, community and belonging. It is symbolic of a unique way of life—one that empowers deaf people to overcome the barriers they face from birth. It provides connection, not only in the deaf-signing community, but to their loved ones. Sign language creates special moments that other families might take for granted. The first time a parent tells their deaf child, “I love you,” might be using sign.

My daughter has Down’s syndrome and experiences hearing loss, so my husband and I use sign-supported English, which is a form of BSL, as part of our toolkit to communicate at home. To any BSL first-language speakers who are watching, I am going to attempt some BSL throughout this speech, so my apologies. [In British Sign Language: I am trying.]

It is with a real sense of personal pride that I open this debate. It is an opportunity to celebrate Sign Language Week and the rich culture it commemorates, while discussing how we as MPs can go further to improve access and the inclusion of the BSL community. The progress that has been made to date is testament to the determination of deaf campaigners, but British Sign Language is not a new phenomenon; it has existed for hundreds of years. There are printed accounts of a national language of the hand dating back as far as the 17th century, but it was only in 2003 that BSL was officially recognised as a language, and it was not until the British Sign Language Act 2022 that this nominal recognition was translated on to the statute book, with legal recognition of BSL. I pay tribute to the former Member for West Lancashire, Rosie Cooper, for leading that private Member’s Bill through Parliament.

The Act was a watershed moment in galvanising public support, and Rosie Cooper’s exceptional campaigning has left an enduring legacy. The Act legislated for the promotion and inclusion of BSL in Government, and led to the creation of the BSL advisory board, which has done excellent work to put the experiences and voices of deaf signers at the heart of Government. It placed a duty on Departments to prepare and publish reports on the use of BSL in their communications. From May 2023 to April 2024, BSL activity in Government communications doubled, and the overall number of Government Departments that said they had not produced any BSL communications halved, from 11 to five. However, there is still much further to go. Five Government Departments is still five too many.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jen Craft]

My hon. Friend is quite right. All children should be offered the opportunity to learn BSL level 1 at school. As she says, it can only help to break down those barriers to the deaf community and open up our society for those who are BSL first-language speakers.

I will conclude because I know that other Members want to speak, and I want to offer everyone the opportunity to practise their BSL if they have learned some—I very much hope they have. Broadly, the Government must embody the maxim “Nothing about us without us” as they continue to improve accessibility for the deaf community. Deaf signers should lead the design, delivery and evaluation of BSL in Government and across public services. We need to see a commitment to truly embed deaf voices in public service delivery and policymaking.

Sign Language Week does not represent a small minority issue. BSL is the fourth most widely used language in the UK. It is relied on by thousands of families, including my own, and learning BSL opens up access to an enriching community for deaf people to be part of. It provides a special bond and a shared sense of identity, in a society that has historically refused to recognise deaf culture and need.

We owe it to members of the deaf community and the campaigners who have come before us to continue to put BSL on the Government’s agenda. We have the legal framework in place to effect real change, and we now need to turn that into a positive reality.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I suggest five minutes for every speech to start with.

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[Ms Minns]

I absolutely agree; all of us in this House have some way to go to improve access for BSL users. It is just over a year since the House introduced British Sign Language coverage for questions and statements. That was clearly welcome, but it means that on any given day, over 50% of business in the main Chamber remains unsigned. I therefore hope that today’s debate prompts a further improvement on the signing of the business of this place.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I call Perran Moon.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Turmaine (Watford) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) on securing this important debate. I declare an interest as an officer of the APPG.

I thank Watford Deaf Club, which was kind enough to host a hustings event for the general election in June 2024, and Helen Austin from the club, who has helped to identify some of the many challenges the deaf community face in day-to-day life. At the hustings event I was struck by two things: first, by how disappointing it is that society at large does not adequately consider integrating deaf people into our culture, systems and public life, resulting in a discernibly disadvantaged experience of some aspects of what hearing-able people take for granted; secondly, by how frustrated and upset some members of the community are about that first point. As politicians, we need to be very careful to be inclusive, accessible and available to all our residents. Currently, we are not. I say that with my hand up first, among many.

My local deaf club says:

“We are so glad that BSL was recognised by the DWP in 2003, and that the BSL Act was passed in 2022, but there are still so many issues that BSL users meet every day.”

I know from the comments of people at the club that the issues include BSL interpreter availability. It is great when interpreters are in the room at televised events, such as political conferences and briefings, but they are often hidden in a corner, meaning the angles of vision can be difficult for BSL users viewing events on TV. The deaf community would like interpreters to be front and centre, as they are in America and New Zealand. Their being tucked away makes the community feel like people are embarrassed of BSL and, by extension, them.

Signed TV programmes are put into ghettos, often at unhelpful times, and appear and disappear with no notice. That also makes the community feel second class. Not all programmes are subtitled, and smaller channels are not expected to provide them. Sometimes, automated subtitles do not keep up with the speech, a phenomenon known as—excuse my language—craptions. Certainly, not all programmes are signed. Members of the deaf community point out to me that they pay 100% of the TV license but do not have access to 100% of the programming content they contribute to.

Additionally—and here I confess guilt of my own—not all politicians subtitle their videos, making democracy inaccessible. My local deaf club says:

“We’d love BSL interpreted videos but subtitles would be a good start.”

It is best practice to make social media posts accessible. I try, but there is clearly room for improvement on my own feeds, and no doubt on others’ too.

The community has raised particular difficulties accessing public services. This was raised at the aforementioned hustings event, and it obviously continues to be an issue. NHS access is still unreliable and inaccessible. Let me read a quote:

“Deaf people have to chase staff in their second language to find out if anyone has bothered to book an interpreter for each and EVERY appointment (hospital and GP, or any other NHS service) and fight for one when they haven’t, despite this being their right under the Accessible Information Standard (AIS) so should be automatic. 

Health services being outsourced is another massive issue. They often find buildings are inaccessible—you have to speak into a box, no way to sign, and no-one seems to know if they are covered by the AIS and, if so, whose responsibility it is to find/book/pay for the Interpreter?”

MP and councillor surgeries have also been raised. How can the community access them and have BSL interpreters present? That is a great idea and I will take it on board for my own surgeries.

Communication with emergency services is a problem as well. My local deaf club has highlighted the case of a member who was sexually assaulted and, despite repeated requests, never had access to a BSL interpreter when talking to the police. That is shocking. It is disappointing that there is no longer a police liaison for the deaf community in my county of Hertfordshire. Many, if not all, of these problems can be solved through basic training and understanding.

It is vital that we take steps here in this place, and when dealing with the big charities as parliamentarians, to make sure that national efforts are made and connected with local communities; otherwise, we risk ignoring people as individuals, and we might create or reform services in ways that do not work for them.

Finally, it is important to acknowledge the great deal of concern among the community regarding the forthcoming benefits reforms. Although we await the final details, it is vital to acknowledge that we need to support the community to cover the additional costs of living with deafness. For example, having to pay for BSL interpreters in person or online is a requirement that impacts people whether they are employed or not. This has been an inspiring debate, and I look forward to taking action to address the issues raised today.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

I have to impose a three-minute formal time limit.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Desmond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for securing this debate. When I worked at the Royal National Institute for Deaf People 25 years ago, I learned how important BSL is as a means of communication for deaf people.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (in the Chair)]

Order. Interventions must be short.

[Rachel Taylor]

BSL is a rich and important part of the cultural identity of the deaf community. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is essential that deaf people and their parents have access to BSL based not on whether they can pay for the courses but on need? That would enrich the language and cultural identity of the deaf community.

Welfare Reform

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I agree with my hon. Friend: I know people are worried and concerned and that is a really important issue. It is why I disagreed with the Opposition spokesman saying that we need to be tough; I am not interested in that because this is about real people and real lives. The changes to PIP are not coming in immediately; they will be coming in from November 2026 for new claimants. Those with severe conditions who will never work will be protected. If people do have a reassessment, it will be done by a fully trained assessor or a healthcare professional and will be based on their individual needs. In order to ensure there is greater confidence in those assessors and the decisions that are being taken, we will overhaul our safeguarding and training and we will record those assessments as standard, because that is essential.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Because working is so beneficial to mental health, will the Secretary of State require claimants to undertake socially useful work in order to retain their benefits?

[Liz Kendall]

No.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 17th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s interest in this subject, which she and I have met to discuss. She is absolutely right: there should be no barriers to young people and their families accessing these funds. The Ministry of Justice has made some progress already. I do not think the answer will be altering the DWP appointee scheme, but there will be further progress to make things easier.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

What is the Minister’s estimate for the number of pensioners who would qualify for pension credit but have not applied in North Durham?

[Torsten Bell]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The Department for Work and Pensions does not produce data at a constituency level, but I will tell him the answer to his question at a national level: much lower than it was before this Government came into office.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I know that my hon. Friend is passionate about helping more people into work. Youth unemployment in her constituency is almost twice the national average, so it is essential for her constituents that we sort this out. Alongside work experience, we want to expand the number of sector-based work programmes, which have tailored courses for employers. We will also hold summits in three key growth areas—construction, health and social care, and clean energy—to bring employers together with local areas so that we can really go for growth.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

The ambition of the Secretary of State for an 80% employment level is bound to be made more difficult by the findings in the impact assessment of the Employment Rights Bill, which foresees a £5.4 billion increase in costs and a 53% increase in strike action, is it not?

[Liz Kendall]

Government Members are ambitious for people right across the country. We do not accept the situation that we inherited from the Conservative party, as the only country in the G7 whose employment rate had not gone back to pre-pandemic levels. Creating more good jobs in every part of the country and narrowing the employment gap between different areas is tough, but we believe that it is achievable, and it is no less than the British people deserve.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Emma Reynolds]

There are unfortunately many such cases in which people are preyed on by scammers. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the case further.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T3. Why did the Office for Budget Responsibility estimate that the Budget would cost 50,000 jobs?

[Alison McGovern]

I refer the right hon. Gentleman to the OBR report that says that overall, employment will go up.

“Get Britain Working” White Paper

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

My hon. Friend will know of our plans to make work pay, bring in day one employment rights, end exploitative zero-hours contracts and improve flexibility at work. We need to do all those things to make sure that there are good-quality job options out there for young people. There will be new leadership roles for mayors in combined authorities, but also clear accountability for delivering the outcome that we want, which is that every young person has an opportunity to earn or learn. We will make sure that happens.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

To ensure that

“if you can work, you must work”,

will the Secretary of State familiarise herself with the works of Jeremy Bentham?

[Liz Kendall]

If I have time.

Women’s State Pension Age: Ombudsman Report

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I beg to move,

That this House notes the findings of the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman report on Women’s State Pension age; and calls on the Government to deliver prompt compensation to women born in the 1950s who had their State Pension age raised.

I am delighted to have secured today’s debate on this very important issue. The motion urges the UK Government to deliver prompt compensation to women born in the 1950s who had their state pension age raised, following the report from the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman on the Department of Work and Pensions’ communication of changes to the state pension age for women. I extend my thanks to the Backbench Business Committee for granting the debate. I lament the fact that it will not be possible to press the motion to a vote, as Tellers from both sides of the argument would be required for such a vote to be held.

Although I am disappointed that there will be no vote, there is nothing at all to prevent the Government from bringing forward such a vote in Government time. Indeed, the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman has invited the House to express a view by laying its report before Parliament, so that clearly needs to happen.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady address the prejudice touched on at the Work and Pensions Committee last week, namely that there has been an element of contributory negligence, in that the change was not a state secret—it was advertised and covered in the newspapers—and that some women who were approaching retirement or early retirement did not take proper notice? Will she knock that on the head?

[Patricia Gibson]

If the right hon. Gentleman reads the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman’s report, he will see that it makes it very clear that action was not taken to inform women in the appropriate way that one would expect and, indeed, that the DWP was negligent in that regard.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Paul Maynard)]

Let me simply point to what the Resolution Foundation had to say in its Living Standards Outlook: pensioner poverty is forecast to fall.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T2. Given that it would not survive under Labour, just how vital is the work plan?

[Mel Stride]

My right hon. Friend is entirely right to raise that point: in the absence of this Government, the work plan will be no more. The problem is that we do not know exactly what will replace it, because there is no plan from the party opposite—no plan on work capability assessments, no plan on personal independence payments, no plan on fit notes. We do not know what Labour stands for, so let us stick with the plan, and let us elect a Conservative Government at the next election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mel Stride]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman; I opened my door to him as soon as he requested and had him and his colleagues in for a discussion. We continue to consider those matters as part of the general policy going forward, and I will keep him informed of news as it may or may not occur.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Is the disability action plan in addition to the national disability strategy?

[Tom Pursglove]

The plan is in addition to the national disability strategy. We as a Government disagree with the position that the Court has taken regarding consultation. We have been given permission to appeal, and we are appealing. The disability action plan is about short-term measures that we can get on and deliver.

Oral Answers to Questions

Desmond Swayne Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Laura Trott]

I am sorry to hear about the pensioners involved. If they are eligible for pension credit and not claiming, I assume the hon. Lady is helping them. As a Department we are happy to give any assistance to those individuals. We are doing all we can to boost pension credit uptake. There was a campaign before Christmas, which I am sure she was part of, to get people to claim the cost of living payment, which we will repeat this year. We saw a 177% increase in claims just before Christmas. There will also be the pension credit week of action for the summer on 12 to 16 June, which I hope many hon. Members will take part in.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

Ministers agitated for us all to get involved in the campaign to extend the uptake of pension credit. Has the Minister any innovative plans that will make it easier for us to do so, such as toolkits and the like?

[Laura Trott]

Absolutely. I am also looking at what more we can do to use data from housing benefit and from His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to make it easier to target people for a claim. Working together, we can make a real difference in the number of pension credit claimants in this country.