Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 3rd September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Tim Loughton)]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. We have some fantastic youth groups, voluntary organisations and people around the country with a passion for engaging young people and a knowledge of how to do so, who in the past have been frozen out too much from the local offer. In future, they need to be part of the offer for young people locally, and must work with local authorities and schools to ensure that young people get the very best opportunities.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

In Darlington, 50 young people at St Aidan’s academy should have got a C this year but got a D. That is not a one-off case; there are schools like it up and down the country. The Secretary of State has said that he is sad about this matter. Does he think that it is fair?

[Michael Gove]

I think that the GCSE, which was introduced under the last Government and was sat by students this time around, is not fit for purpose. Any specific questions about grade boundaries are properly a matter for examination boards and for Ofqual, the independent regulator. As I mentioned earlier, it would be quite wrong for Ministers to attempt to mark exam papers.

Safeguarding Children

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tim Loughton]

I have known my hon. Friend for more than 30 years and she has never been anything but helpful. Her work on early prevention, which is germane to the Government’s work on neglect and early help, absolutely confirms that the sooner we can detect problems, such as detachment, deficiency and others—the work with troubled families is important in this respect—the more likely we are to step in at an appropriate time and in an appropriate manner to avoid such problems leading to greater harm to a child. She is absolutely right, as she knows, and as she knows I know.

Understanding families and the experiences of children within them can be complex and signs of what appears to be low-level neglect can be misleading. Yesterday, as I have said, we published materials commissioned from Action for Children and the University of Stirling to help on that.

We are already seeing some notable successes from earlier intervention. I again pay tribute to the hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen), who is no longer in the Chamber, for his work on that. For example, the integrated access team in Suffolk is taking and handling quickly cases that would previously have been dealt with by children’s social care, with a £7 million saving on top of better social outcomes for those children. Tower Hamlets is operating a multi-agency integrated pathway and support team to deliver early help, reducing by 50% the number of referrals to children’s social care. That is happening in practice, and we now want more of it around the country.

As the motion indicates, it is important that professionals know what early intervention works best. To support them in that, the Government have recently invited bids for the establishment of an early intervention foundation and we expect the foundation to operate independently of central Government to support the needs of local commissioners and to build a solid evidence base.

I referred at the start of my speech to the importance of a high quality social work work force. Building on the work of the social work taskforce established by the previous Administration, we have focused heavily on improving the capacity and capability of the social work profession. In 2011-12 we invested £80 million in a national programme of social work reform to improve skills for social workers and tackle high vacancy rates in child protection. Together, all those reforms will shift the child protection system from a culture of compliance to a culture in which children and families are at the centre and social workers and other key professionals spend less time in front of their computer screens and more time face to face with vulnerable families and children, which is what we all want to see.

The motion rightly refers to the importance of young people understanding the risks of abuse and sexual exploitation. Tackling child sexual exploitation is a major priority for the Government and it has been at the top of our agenda over the past 12 months. Back in May last year, I made a speech at a Barnardo’s event in which I highlighted the importance of its “Puppet on a string” report. I said then that sexual exploitation of children

“is happening here and it is happening now”

and I went on to say that

“I think it’s a much bigger problem than it may appear now on our radar.”

I fear I was only too right and that we are seeing only the tip of the iceberg.

For far too long, the issue was something of a taboo in this country. It was little spoken about, little appreciated and little acknowledged or dealt with. Few local authorities had much idea about how prevalent child sexual exploitation was in their areas and, as a result, there was a real and tragic failure to grasp the scale of the problem. The high profile verdicts in the recent Rochdale case and others show that the situation is changing. The country is at last waking up to the fact that child sexual exploitation is a real problem in this country, but although the issue has been extensively discussed and debated in the media, there is still a good deal of misunderstanding about it.

Much of the coverage of the case in Rochdale focused on the fact that the perpetrators were British Asian men and the victims white teenage girls. We must not shy away from difficult issues about culture—I have said that on many occasions—and the Rochdale case does raise very troubling questions about the attitude of the perpetrators, all but one of whom were from Pakistani backgrounds, towards white girls, but it would be mistaken, and dangerous, to assume that that is the form that child sexual exploitation generally takes. We know that perpetrators of that appalling crime and their victims can be found in all backgrounds, in all parts of the country and in all social and ethnic sets. As Sue Berelowitz, the Deputy Children’s Commissioner, told the Select Committee on Home Affairs yesterday, this is not just a crime that takes place in northern metropolitan boroughs. She quoted a police officer from a

“lovely, leafy, rural part of the country”

who told her that

“there isn’t a town, village or hamlet in which children are not being sexually exploited”.

We owe a debt of gratitude to several organisations and individuals for putting the issue on the map, such as Safe and Sound Derby and, in particular, Sheila Taylor, to whom I pay tribute. Barnardo’s also did an enormous amount to raise awareness through its excellent report and its continuing “Cut them free” campaign. The Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre carried out a major assessment last year and reported practitioners telling it

“if you lift the stone, you’ll find it”.

There are many others, including many local projects and voluntary organisations, with whom my Department continues to work closely. We acted, I brought together all the major players and in November of last year we produced the tackling child sexual exploitation action plan. That is one of the pieces of work in my Department of which I am most proud, and it is beginning to have an effect. It is intended to lift the lid on the true nature and extent of this crime and to set out practical responses to it, and as a result many practical measures are already coming into force, although we need many more to take effect.

We identified four key stages where we needed better intervention. We need better awareness among children and their parents. We need better multi-agency action to intervene so that we can help children and families who are caught up in sexual exploitation. Once they have been rescued from it, we need to help them get their lives back on track. Finally, we must secure robust prosecutions and improve court processes to ensure support for victims and their families, including ensuring that we do not retraumatise teenage girls and other victims, who have to go through the whole episode in court in front of a phalanx of defence barristers. That is why the Attorney-General’s influence and involvement are really important. We must and can do better and shortly we will publish a progress report on how a range of Government Departments and national and local organisations are implementing the action plan.

Hon. Members will also be aware that last month the Secretary of State asked the Deputy Children’s Commissioner to provide him with an accelerated report from her office’s inquiry into child sexual exploitation in gangs and groups. Although it is clear that most children who are sexually exploited are not in care, we know that children who are in care are disproportionately represented in the numbers of victims of this crime. The Secretary of State asked particularly for recommendations on how to keep children in care homes safe from this abuse. We have just received that accelerated report, and we will publish it within a matter of weeks alongside the updated progress report, into which some of the findings from Sue Berelowitz’s report will be factored and, as a result, some urgent streams of work will emerge.

We are already taking action on children missing from care, and it is clear that the figures the police and my Department publish are not consistent. That is simply not acceptable. We are now working with the police and local authorities to bring a more consistent approach to figures collected nationally and locally. We need to know the extent of the problem so we can challenge poorly performing local authorities and come up with the right solutions.

I am particularly grateful for the work the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) is carrying out through the all-party parliamentary group inquiry into children missing from care. I look forward to receiving its report next week and will consider its recommendations very closely. I have promised that it will inform the new guidance we are looking to publish in that area.

Of course, safeguarding children in care is only one aspect of our wider reform programme to transform the care system and improve outcomes for the most vulnerable children. Key is ensuring placement stability and good parenting—as we have heard from hon. Members today—whether through adoption, foster care or children’s homes. We also want to improve the support given to care leavers, another group vulnerable to sexual exploitation. We must ensure that children who leave care live in good accommodation and are well supported.

The reference in the motion to multi-agency working has a particular relevance in relation to tackling child sexual exploitation. Local safeguarding children boards have an absolutely central role in overseeing much of the work set out in our action plan. There is growing evidence that LSCBs and local authorities are getting a better picture of child sexual exploitation in their areas and taking steps to address it. But it is clear that some are still not giving this issue the priority it requires. They need to do so without further delay.

There is one final area that I want to mention in particular. Improving the safety of children who use the internet is an urgent priority, including reducing the risk of harm through contact with strangers and the viewing of harmful content. The hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby mentioned a particularly horrific site that was raised yesterday. The Government are working, through the UK Council for Child Internet Safety or UKCCIS, which I chair jointly with a Home Office Minister, to help to keep children and young people safer online. The council is focused on practical action, both by individual members, and collectively.

We have made real progress across a number of areas. The four major internet service providers have signed a code of practice that will see by October 2012 all new broadband customers presented with an unavoidable choice of whether to activate parental controls. Major retailers and manufacturers of internet-enabled devices such as mobile phones, laptops and internet-enabled TVs are developing solutions to increase the availability and awareness of parental controls at point of sale. UKCCIS has also published advice and guidance for internet companies to use so that parents get consistent information about keeping their children safe on the internet.

In conclusion—

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Tim Loughton]

All right, but I am really trying to finish.

[Mrs Chapman]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I hesitated to intervene, given the speed at which he was going, but I did not want to miss the chance to raise with him a very real concern for people in Darlington about registered sex offenders. At the moment, offenders are not required to register their online identities as a matter of course. Sexual offences prevention orders are used to do this job, but it is not a requirement as a matter of course. When people have a known history of child abuse and deliberate grooming, it is very important that they are required to register their online identities as a matter of course.

[Tim Loughton]

The hon. Lady makes a very important point. Rather than go into detail now and take more time from Back Benchers, I would be happy to look into it if she would like to have a conversation with me and send me some details.

This is a huge, complex but deeply important subject and one that must remain a key priority for the Government and the Department in particular. The documents we published yesterday are intended to help create the new culture that we are determined to see. It is a culture that is not overly focused on compliance and dependency on central prescription and guidance; in which front-line professionals who work to keep children safe from harm no longer have their judgment stifled by what has all too often been pointless—albeit well intentioned—bureaucracy, made up of unnecessary rules and targets; and which has the needs and well-being of the child at its centre. It is apparent from the motion that the Government and the Opposition share the same goals in relation to the safeguarding of children, and I believe that the important reforms I have outlined will be welcomed by hon. Members on both sides of the House. I congratulate again the shadow Secretary of State on bringing this important subject before a slightly reduced audience in the Chamber today, because it is really important to a much bigger audience outside the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 16th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is one in a million and I look forward to meeting him. I think there is an opportunity in the diary at 11 o’clock this Wednesday for us to have a cup of tea. I am committed to doing everything I can to improve education in Bradford. It is a great city and it has some great representatives.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I will be as quick as I can. Will the Secretary of State have a look at the 16-to-19 funding formula as applied to Darlington college and make sure that it has been done correctly?

[Michael Gove]

I will do everything in my power.

Financial Education

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely spot on with that point and I am just about to come on to it.

We have already had a number of debates in this Chamber on debt management companies, doorstep lending and payday loans. In fact, on annual percentage rates, we have already seen worrying evidence that consumers often think the higher the APR, the better. When people take out loans, they are not necessarily taking them out for a simple 12-month period. Most people could probably calculate 10% on a £100 loan, but it becomes complicated. Sometimes, the high-interest rate loans can be better than what people think is a safe bet. A good example of that is someone who wishes to borrow £100 for two days. They can borrow it from one of those well-known payday lenders who charge 4,635% plus £5.50 for the product fee, or they can go into their unauthorised overdraft facility at their local bank, which will charge them an understandable flat fee of £10 a day and a £2.50 fee for the privilege of using their debit card. Nearly everybody would accept the bank’s offer, because it is understandable.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I feel obliged to intervene, given that my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) is not here, but how many people does the hon. Gentleman believe sit and make the calculation when they are working out whether to take a loan from Wonga? How many of them does he think roll over their loans at the end of the borrowing term?

[Justin Tomlinson]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention and that is exactly the point. It is so complicated. In my example, the bank was not the right option, but on many other occasions, it would be the other way around. The majority of consumers cannot calculate the interest rates to make those informed decisions. The market benefits from that and targets its marketing to take advantage of the situation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Chapman]

The hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) mentions spread betting, but will the hon. Gentleman confirm that we are not suggesting teaching primary school children gambling?

[Tessa Munt]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. I congratulate the hon. Members for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) and for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) on the work that they put into the report. However, before this turns into a complete love-in in which we all congratulate each other on our efforts, I should observe that I see financial education as being about 20% of the solution to the problem with debt in this country. We also need to look carefully and quite quickly at regulating certain parts of the industry, especially payday loans and the high-cost lending sector. I would also like to improve advice services and secure advice services that are under threat at the moment. I would look at advertising, too. I think that it is at the root of some of the severe problems that people get themselves into with debt. On loans, some very dodgy products are made to look commonplace, and young people are encouraged to take out short-term loans for things such as going to a music festival, which sends completely the wrong message. We need to do something about that fairly urgently.

As a nation, many of us lack the knowledge we need to properly manage our finances. About two thirds of people in the UK say that they feel too confused to make the right choices about their money and more than a third say that they do not have the right skills to properly manage their cash. Only 36% of people understand that the term APR relates to payments. Within families, about 19% of parents have never discussed how to spend money with their teenagers and 32% have yet to discuss how to budget or even describe what one is. Research has shown that 43% of parents do not know what basic financial terms such as APR or PPI mean. On Tuesday, I was in a financial education class in a women’s prison and I was quite impressed by how well informed some of the inmates were, but there was quite a long discussion about PPI, which seems to be a huge issue on which many people feel they have been misled. They say they would have benefited from clear information at a young age.

Frighteningly, about three quarters of us say that a lack of basic financial understanding is to blame for our debts. The gaps in our national financial knowledge are worrying but are made all the more troubling in these times of austerity. The citizens advice bureau in my constituency tells me that in the past 12 months it has dealt with just under £9.5 million of debt. Between 2004 and 2010, individual insolvency levels rose sharply. Apparently, in the 12 months ending in quarter 3 of 2011, about one in 361 people became insolvent, which is significantly higher than the annual average of one in 1,655.

[Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

Has my hon. Friend noticed, as I have, even more people coming to her surgery with financial issues than previously? Is she as worried as I am that they are coming to us at a time when even less independent financial advice is available for them to access?

[Mrs Chapman]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. She tempts me to break a promise that I made to myself when I came into the debate not to have a rant about the economy and make a wider political point, because I thought that that probably would not be what this occasion demanded. However, she makes that point for me and I thank her for it.

Education is the armour against being misled and I believe that advertising is misleading us. I refer the House to my ten-minute rule Bill of about a year ago, which I am sure all hon. Members have followed closely, which would curb some of the advertising on financial products. Financial education provides protection against some of the most traumatic circumstances a person can find themselves in, from paying an additional fee on an unauthorised overdraft because one is not aware of how the charges work, to losing one’s home or having one’s belongings repossessed and being declared bankrupt. Many of us have been able to learn from our mistakes because either the economy has been in a good state or we have been able to rely on family or friends. We have been lucky but young people now, as the hon. Member for North Swindon said, are in danger of financial mismanagement having a much longer-term effect on their lives. On finishing education, young people immediately face tough monetary decisions. At 17, they are already in debt and tied into contracts that they did not fully understand for things such as mobile phones. I take the slack given to me by the hon. Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) who made a good point about gambling. If that is an issue at primary level, which I had not appreciated, it is right that that be included in the curriculum. Therefore, we need to be properly prepared to deal with these decisions. Put simply, an informed borrower is a safer borrower.

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

I appreciate the hon. Lady’s point, but does she not agree that if we have a problem with children under the age of 11 gambling, the most important place to start is not the curriculum, but access to online gambling?

[Mrs Chapman]

I agree completely. That goes back to the first point that I made about financial education being one of four strands of the solution, the others being debt advice, advertising and regulation. The hon. Gentleman is right to point that out.

In schools across England, the provision of personal financial education is ad hoc. We saw some good examples when writing this report. I took it upon myself to visit schools in my constituency and I was impressed with what I found. There is little teacher training on personal financial education and there is therefore limited subject knowledge and confidence among some teaching staff. It is stating the obvious to say that schools face significant barriers to teaching financial education, such as curriculum time, the absence of a statutory mandate and the lack of awareness of suitable resources.

[Elizabeth Truss]

Does the hon. Lady agree that the current requirement of a grade C in mathematics to teach in primary schools may need to be amended? Is she concerned, as I am, that we have the smallest proportion of students studying maths from 16 to 18 of any country in the OECD? We therefore do not necessarily have people moving through the system with the right mathematical understanding.

[Mrs Chapman]

I agree with that to a point. I have A-level maths and I am very glad that I studied that. One does not have to be a maths expert to deliver good financial education, but one does need to have confidence in the subject, have a good grasp of the knowledge and be a good teacher. A good teacher who can get the ideas across can probably teach the things that we discuss in the report quite well.

[Lyn Brown]

Given that I could not tempt my hon. Friend to have a rant on the economy, perhaps I can tempt her one more time to deviate on to the Government’s record on this matter. In November 2011, applications for training courses for secondary maths teachers fell by more than a quarter on last year. Is she as concerned as I am about the implications of that?

[Mrs Chapman]

I am very concerned about that. I am not only concerned about mathematics. My region has seen a drop of about 20% in higher education applications. We are assured that there will be a last-minute surge in applications. If that is not the case, I fear that we will face a serious problem.

[Oliver Heald]

Does the hon. Lady agree that there is also an important issue about an entrepreneurial society? If we do not have enough basic financial information and knowledge in our community, it is a brake on innovation and entrepreneurialism. It also means that people who do set up a business often cannot prepare a decent business case and that their business does not sustain itself. That is important to our economy, as are the matters that she is raising.

[Mrs Chapman]

I do agree with that. There are plenty of examples of entrepreneurs who have done incredibly well with little formal education. I do not know this for sure, but I do not think I am pushing the boat out too much to suggest that Duncan Bannatyne, who has his head office in my constituency, does not have a maths degree. Such exceptions aside, most people would benefit from having this sort of knowledge. I think that it would assist in the way that the hon. Gentleman indicates.

I will conclude because much of what I was going to say has already been said, and probably much more eloquently, by the hon. Member for North Swindon. [Interruption.] I was not expecting a response to that. On the advice of teachers, the all-party group on financial education for young people felt that it was necessary to have a champion for personal finance in each school. I had my doubts about that when the report was drafted, because I was not sure that schools would welcome having that burden loaded on to them. However, it was pointed out to me that teachers had argued strongly for that recommendation to be included. With that in mind, I am happy to support it.

The all-party group also believes that the subject should be examined, and I agree. Ofsted has stated that courses leading to formal accreditation have inspired

“a more coherent curriculum and sharper focus on the learning outcomes students were expected to achieve”.

As one head teacher has explained:

“Unless you test it, it will not happen”.

The introduction of dual mathematics GCSEs would promote the right objective and ensure that the subject is properly examined and taught.

I urge the House to examine the matter closely, take it seriously and include it in what I hope will be a package of measures that will help address the serious problem that we have not just with the lack of financial education but with debt more broadly. I hope that we will consider matters such as advertising, the provision of advice and the regulation of the high-cost lending market.

I wish to conclude with a lovely quotation that I have found, which I could not help but try to give at some point. Benjamin Franklin said:

“An investment in knowledge pays the best interest.”

I think that is quite a nice way to end.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House of Commons (Mr David Heath)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) raised a point of order a short time ago about the availability of a written ministerial statement from the Ministry of Defence about the London 2012 Olympics. I have since had the opportunity to look into its whereabouts. It was, in fact, issued just after 1.30 pm today, but for some reason the IT did not allow it to get through to the Vote Office. That has now been corrected, and it is now available in the Vote Office. I hope that if the hon. Lady goes to either the Vote Office or the Library, she will get a copy, but I have a further copy here if she would like it.

New Schools

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We are all committed across the House to rebalancing the economy and ensuring that, in addition to our strength in financial services, we recover our strength in manufacturing. If we are to do that, we need to ensure that children acquire the necessary mathematical and scientific skills at the earliest possible age. I think that the involvement of more than 130 companies in the UTC programme, as well as high-performing higher education institutions, will help us to do just that.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I am afraid that I must inform the Secretary of State that the Tory group on Darlington borough council somewhat embarrassed him recently by inviting Lord Baker to Darlington to discuss the prospect of a UTC. I do not think that they fully understood the scheme, because in Darlington we have enough secondary school places. The scheme seems quite inflexible, as a new school would have to be established, rather than an existing one converted. Will the Secretary of State spare their blushes in future by allowing schools to convert, rather than being brand new?

[Michael Gove]

Rather than embarrassing me, Darlington Conservatives have shown that they have exceptionally good judgment by inviting Lord Baker rather than me to address them. I absolutely take the hon. Lady’s point. Sometimes we will look at existing schools to see how we can allow them to develop a specialism that will support high-quality vocational learning.

Careers Service (Young People)

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I greatly admired the speech given by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), but I am slightly perplexed as to how he can speak eloquently and passionately about something in which he clearly believes but then, at the last minute, say that he will be able to vote with the Government—that is extraordinary— and that he will encourage his colleagues to do the same. It is his call to vote with the Government and support them. I shall support young people in all of this, as they need us now.

We decided to call this debate on careers advice—not the sexiest subject out there—because it matters to us in the Labour party. This is about social mobility, and if the Labour party cares about something, it is social mobility. If we get this wrong, it will make a huge difference to young people’s lives.

[Simon Hughes]

The hon. Lady rightly said that we all have to show that we are on the side of young people, and I hope that I have shown that and that my colleagues are, too. The Government must not just provide one response to one question but respond comprehensively. They also have to find the money. That is their job, not my job. I want them to do it, and we are putting pressure on them. Let me put pressure on in my way; if the hon. Lady puts pressure on in her way, I am determined that the Government will deliver.

[Mrs Chapman]

I listen carefully to the right hon. Gentleman, and clearly he is far more experienced in the ways of the House than I am. It really is not about what we get up and say—it is what we do. We must show support for young people through our actions, not just by giving a fancy speech.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I am listening carefully to the distinction that the hon. Lady is drawing between how Members will vote on the motion and their commitments more widely. Will she tell us whether the previous Government guaranteed face-to-face contact for every person, as the motion seeks to demand that the Government guarantee?

[Mrs Chapman]

There are issues with Connexions, and if I am able to deliver the rest of my speech, I will come on to that.

Satisfaction with Connexions varies a great deal, and the Minister rightly pointed out that its careers advice was lacking. In his report, Alan Milburn observed that only one in five young people questioned on the issue found that the careers advice offered by Connexions was satisfactory. That situation is not sustainable, and we should not put up with it. My objection is that the only young people who will receive guaranteed, face-to-face, top-notch, good-quality careers advice are those in fee-paying schools, which no one in the House should tolerate, regardless of their political affiliation, background or education.

The issue is not just the life chances of individual young people, although it certainly includes that, and I am sure that will be the main focus of debate. This is about economic regeneration. My constituency has an engineering heritage and I have some very large engineering companies. I am thinking of Cummins, which makes engines. I do not understand fully what the company does, but I know the engines come in a range of colours. The careers advice and guidance that I was given, growing up in a town with such a strong engineering heritage, was about the public sector, health care and social sciences. Nobody ever spoke to me about taking maths, about a career in engineering, about getting into technology—nothing. Not very much has changed in that respect.

[Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that it is the quality of advice that counts, more than its quantity? What does she recommend we could do to get more people into schools to talk about STEM subjects, for example, and to inspire pupils to take those—boys and girls?

[Mrs Chapman]

Exactly right; I agree with that. I look at my own sons and wonder who is going to talk to them if they want to go into science, technology, engineering or maths. Heaven help them if they look to me or their father for advice. I can give them advice on politics, psychology, archaeology, retail and cake decorating.

Alan Milburn was right. I am happy to see the service devolved to schools. It is fine for schools to commission the service as they see fit, but they need money to enable them to buy quality face-to-face advice, and there needs to be a proper inspection regime.

[Damian Hinds]

rose—

[Mrs Chapman]

Please be brief.

[Damian Hinds]

Is the hon. Lady aware of the STEMNET ambassador programme, in which people from relevant industries go into schools and get the benefit of continuing professional development while they are sharing their knowledge and enthusiasm with the young people?

[Mrs Chapman]

Fantastic! I am all for that. That is marvellous, but is it happening in every school in the country? Of course not. I have some brilliant engineering businesses which go into schools and inspire young people. They try to point young people in the right direction and show them that there are wonderful careers for them on their doorstep—international careers—but young people need more than a visit from such a company. They need proper face-to-face advice from people who will inspire them.

The businesses in Darlington to which I referred are recruiting senior engineers from Greece, Brazil and Turkey, because we are not producing the people to fill those senior roles. One reason for that is that people are not getting the right advice at the right age. I am not talking just about 16 and FE. I am talking about year 6 in primary school, before they take their options, so that they know that they have to take good science subjects and maths. I am glad to see the hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) agreeing with me. Such careers advice will not happen via Google. It needs to be face-to-face, inspiring advice.

I am fortunate to have in Darlington the Queen Elizabeth sixth-form college. I shall shamelessly plug the work of one woman, Stella Barnes, who provides first-class careers advice to young people there. I am sure that despite the pressures that it faces, the college will find the funding to keep Stella doing such fantastic work, but that is one woman and she can only do so much.

In the turbulent world that our young people are entering, job prospects are not certain, the costs of higher education are putting people off, and EMA no longer incentivises young people to stay on post-16. That applies not only to the at-risk, the vulnerable, the people who would not have a job if their mother had not organised something for them. It applies to all young people from all kinds of backgrounds. It is not just about the children of people on benefits. It is about people whose parents are in professional careers but who lack the wherewithal to open other doors—people like myself.

The biggest shame is that the Government have over-promised on what they will do. When they said that there would be an all-age careers service, people took them at their word. They thought that that meant the same for everybody and that it would be fair, but that is not what we will find. Adults can get face-to-face advice, because the Government rightly recognise that they need it, so why can young people not get it? They need it more than anyone else. They need someone to look them in the eye, work out their personal circumstances, listen to their hopes, dreams and aspirations, perhaps give them some if they do not have any, and work out the best thing for them. Otherwise, we are leaving young people stranded.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

There are good examples across the United Kingdom, and some of those will be in Northern Ireland. I suggest that that might be a way forward.

[Mrs Chapman]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that inspiring contribution. I find myself now in a situation in which everything has been said, but probably not by everyone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is the first debate I have spoken in since the summer recess, so may I declare an interest that I should have declared when I spoke in a Westminster Hall debate on 6 July? Since March this year, I have had a part-time placement in my local office from a local not-for-profit social enterprise, the Neighbourhood Services Company. Due to an oversight on my part, I did not register that interest until 8 August. I am pleased to have this opportunity to put that on the record.

My right hon. Friend the shadow Education Secretary set the context for this important debate—rising youth unemployment, the loss of education maintenance allowance and the increase in tuition fees, with the danger that today’s generation of young people could be left in the lurch. He also made the important point that Labour Members are not arguing for preserving the status quo, and he made it clear that we want to work on a cross-party basis to deliver the terms of the motion. I welcome the comments by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), who reminded us of the recommendations in his report. I gently encourage him and his colleagues to follow those words by joining us in the Aye Lobby.

The big policy challenge to which several Members have referred is how we can increase social mobility. We know from research, including last year’s “Going for Growth” report from the OECD, that this country has an appalling record. The strength of the link between a person’s income and their parents’ income is higher in this country than in any other OECD country. That is a truly shocking fact. I think that every speaker has mentioned Alan Milburn, so I feel the need to do so as well. In his 2009 report, Alan said:

“Birth, not worth, has become much more of a determinant of people’s life chances.”

We must ensure that we address that in this debate.

[Mrs Chapman]

On the subject of Alan Milburn, if my hon. Friend cared to read further on in his report, he would notice that Mr Milburn recommended that schools should be funded in order to commission such careers advice.

[Stephen Twigg]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. I was going to make a similar point later, but she has made it very powerfully.

The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, who is not here this evening, has been cautious in his criticism of the previous Government’s programmes, and rightly so. Of course, as Members on both sides of the House have said, there were serious imperfections with Connexions and Next Step, but we must be careful not to write off the positive features and the important work of many talented and committed professionals who have worked, as some still do, in those programmes.

Today, in advance of tonight’s debate, I spoke to people in some of the secondary schools in my constituency. Those at St John Bosco school in Croxteth told me about the work they have been doing with the Aimhigher programme. They have drawn particularly on the importance of the role of face-to-face contact by employing a graduate mentor to assist the girls at the school with their university applications and career development. This is a school in a very deprived neighbourhood that has an excellent reputation and a high percentage of its girls going on to university.

Cardinal Heenan school for boys has pioneered a particularly innovative approach to careers advice. I want to commend Dave Forshaw, the head teacher, and his team for their industry day programme, which I have had the opportunity to visit on two occasions. The programme draws on alumni, partners and a range of local organisations to deliver rich and effective careers advice, starting in year 7. Its recent industry days have had contributions from a former pupil of the school, the actor Ian Hart, who appeared in the Harry Potter films, as well as local and national journalists, sports professionals, solicitors, accountants and others. West Derby school has adopted a similar approach and held its first careers convention last year.

I cite those examples because they demonstrate two important points. The first is the critical importance of giving information and advice at an early age. Too often, these things are left too late. The second is the importance of drawing on expertise, including among the alumni of the schools themselves, to inspire young people.

The head teachers of those schools said to me today that quality careers advice needs resources. They are very concerned about what they see as a potential shift in policy away from face-to-face interaction to online and telephone-based services. My right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State set out the research published by Unison that was done at the university of Derby, which shows the sheer scale of the cuts in careers services up and down the country. That is the backdrop for this important debate.

Some of this debate has focused on low-cost solutions and how effective they are in delivery. I would like to bring the House’s attention to the work of an organisation called Future First. It has done excellent research on careers services. Like the head teachers of the schools in my constituency that I have cited, it emphasises that careers advice cannot be reduced to online information and telephone services. A complementary model is surely the best way forward. Future First seeks to increase social mobility by building communities of alumni around state schools to inspire young people about their futures.

School Closures (Thursday)

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

We all listen with respect to the Select Committee, and its Chairman is quite right. The general secretaries of those trade unions have, throughout their careers, shown a commitment to improving state education. I therefore believe that their motives are right in most circumstances. On this occasion, however, they have made a mistake and they should acknowledge it.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I went to school in Darlington in the ’80s and I remember being sent home from school because not all the teachers had informed the head that they were going on strike. I was sent home and sat on the front door step before a neighbour came to fetch me. What guarantees can the right hon. Gentleman give about the fact that, although schools might be open, some teachers unexpectedly might not be present? The most important consideration here is the welfare of children. What is the right hon. Gentleman going to do to ensure that we do not see a return to strike after strike after strike under this Tory Government just like we did in the ’80s?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for making her point, but as the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) made clear from the Opposition Front Bench, this strike is unjustified at this time, and the responsibility rests on those general secretaries and trade union members who are going on strike. They are causing inconvenience to hard-working parents and they should not be going on strike: that is the united position of both Front-Bench teams, and I am sorry that the hon. Lady does not share it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Tim Loughton)]

I share some of my hon. Friend’s concerns and I know that she has written to the Secretary of State on the matter. She will be aware that we are currently reviewing personal, social and health education, of which sex and relationship education is a key part. It is crucial that whatever we do should be age appropriate. I would welcome her further input into the review as it proceeds.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the future of buildings at Mowden Hall in Darlington? The local council, residents and a property developer have an alternative site that will save money and create jobs. It will require quick decisions and innovative thinking. Is he up for it?

[Michael Gove]

I am always up for innovative thinking, and always up for a meeting with the hon. Lady. I take the point about Mowden Hall. I had the opportunity to visit it a few months ago—the first Secretary of State to do so, I think, since David Blunkett. I would be happy to discuss with her how we can help her constituents.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Thursday 17th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Prisk]

Last but not least. I assure the hon. Gentleman that the 13% figure is often driven by the need for local partners to get their arrangements right. We are standing ready. We know that these partnerships can help local growth right across England, right across London, and in his constituency as well.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

We found out this morning that Wonga, the payday lender, has raised £73 million to expand its operations across the country into even more communities. When are this Government going to get a grip on these legal loan sharks?

[Mr Davey]

As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said earlier, we are waiting to respond to the consultation on consumer credit and personal insolvency, which will deal with all aspects of consumer credit. I am not aware of the particular point that the hon. Lady has made, but when we respond I hope that she will welcome our ideas.

Independent Debt Advice

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Tuesday 8th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I completely agree. I will come to the issue of where people are likely to go in the future.

[Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way and I too congratulate her on securing this debate. On the issue of where people will go for their debt advice, I suspect that they will have somewhere to go, which will be into the arms of fee-charging providers who advertise their services and, according to the Office of Fair Trading, mercilessly use every opportunity to recruit people inappropriately to use their services.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention; I will come to the issue of fee-paying debt management companies shortly.

As I was saying, I have a second question for the Minister. Does he expect financial education to eradicate the need for debt advice in the future? It is my experience that most people fall into debt due to unplanned events, for example bereavement, illness or the loss of a job. People do not plan to get into debt, and borrowing is only debt when people cannot afford to pay the money back. At such stressful times in people’s lives as dealing with a bereavement or an illness, timely advice is vital. Indeed, one of the most distressing cases that I have dealt with personally was that of a family who had a child with a severe disability. They received all the disability and carers’ benefits, and they had taken out loans to adapt their home and car to enable their daughter to be cared for at home rather than in residential care. However, she died suddenly and unexpectedly, and they were left on vastly reduced benefits and facing a high level of debt.

Where are those people to go in the future? Like my hon. Friend, I fear that they will be thrust into the clutches of the fee-charging debt management companies, the same companies that the OFT found flouted debt management guidelines by misrepresenting their services as free when they are not free. The OFT also reported that many front-line advisers working for those companies lacked competence and provided poor advice based on inadequate information. Unfortunately, urgent action was not taken to address the problem and the issue is now being considered as part of the consumer credit and personal insolvency review. Unless action on the regulation of debt management schemes is fast-tracked, it is very unlikely that the necessary protections will be in place until autumn 2011 at the earliest, if they are put in place at all.

Vulnerable people should not be put into the position of paying unregulated and often incompetent providers to deal with the fact that they do not have enough money to pay their bills. The situation is becoming more urgent daily, with more and more advice agencies closing their door to new debt clients, so I urge the Minister to consider extending the financial inclusion fund programme until the review of advice services is complete, or to provide sufficient alternative funding for free face-to-face debt advice to continue in local agencies. Not to do either of those things will have a great cost—both in human terms and for the state.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Percy]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Perhaps Opposition Members will now reflect upon what some of us on this side of the Chamber are trying to do.

I shall move away from the help and assistance that I am trying to ensure that my staff are able to give people who contact me, and on to some of my concerns. The move away from a face-to-face debt advice service to a telephone or internet-based service has already been commented upon. I have bitter personal experience of debts. A few years ago, I tried to access assistance on some debts and, as much as I do not like to air my washing in public, it was incredibly difficult to access the correct advice on where to go with particular problems. I accrued debts through funding my postgraduate studies, as is the case with many people—in no way am I alone in that. [Interruption.] It was postgraduate education, which has had fees for a considerable number of years and is not affected by any current changes. It was incredibly difficult to access advice on where to go. As the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North has said, it is not always easy to interact properly with someone in a telephone conversation, and it is difficult to talk about one’s personal financial situation. Talking with somebody over the telephone is no substitute whatsoever for talking with someone face to face.

In support of the point made by the hon. Member for Makerfield, when searching for debt advice, particularly online, it is unclear who provides it at a profit to themselves and who does not. If a company calls itself a national debt or advice helpline, the natural assumption is to conclude that it is a charity, when in fact, as others have commented, it is out to make profits from people’s debts.

[Mrs Chapman]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Andrew Percy]

I will give way, because I know that the hon. Lady will make a reasonable and sensible point.

[Mrs Chapman]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Would he support a scheme similar to that in Scotland in which debt management advice is more carefully regulated and caps are used to regulate provision?