Financial Inclusion: Rural Areas

Anna Sabine Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2024 Westminster Hall

[Anna Sabine (Frome and East Somerset) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered financial inclusion in rural areas.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Pritchard. I am grateful to the Chairman of Ways and Means for granting this debate.

Financial inclusion is the ability of people to access, understand and use financial services to manage their money and reduce poverty. I hope the Minister will agree that we need better financial inclusion across the UK. I have been heartened to hear the new Government talk about financial inclusion, but more rural areas face a whole host of issues that make the challenges around financial inclusion even greater, and that is what I will focus on today.

My constituency of Frome and East Somerset is a predominantly rural area, with a number of market towns such as Frome, Midsomer Norton and Radstock, and 150 villages and hamlets. Frome has recently been allocated a banking hub, after our last bank branch announced that it would close. Thankfully, Midsomer Norton still has two bank branches open, but they serve surrounding areas as far as the city of Bath, meaning that residents in the surrounding villages still have to travel miles to reach their nearest bank.

Access to cash and face-to-face banking is vital for about 5 million customers across the UK who may be vulnerable because of low income or age, and in rural areas many people are dependent on cash for their livelihoods. When bank branches close, which is already more likely in rural areas, residents are increasingly vulnerable because the alternatives are more physically spread out, and after losing free-to-use cashpoints, rural residents have to travel three times as far to get cash as those in urban areas.

[David Chadwick (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe) (LD)]

I thank my hon. Friend for securing this debate. Large banks are leaving our high streets at an alarming rate. Ystradgynlais, the biggest town in Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, has been denied a request for a banking hub, despite the billions of pounds of profit that Lloyds bank made in 2023. Does my hon. Friend agree with me that communities such as Ystradgynlais, which has some of the most deprived areas in Wales, should be at the forefront of moves to expand banking hubs across the UK, and that the big banks should treat their customers well and deliver a fair share of services for local residents?

[Anna Sabine]

It will not surprise my hon. Friend to hear that I do agree. I will come on to talk about the criteria that Link uses in allocating banking hubs.

In Frome and East Somerset, an average of £630,000 is withdrawn in cash each month, showing how vital access is for people in these areas. The two main groups most affected by lack of access to cash are the deprived and the elderly. For people on low incomes, cash can act as an effective method to budget efficiently. Many elderly people feel excluded by the increasing reliance on digital services. With BT set to swap from analogue to digital landlines for millions of customers across the UK, there are concerns that that will lead to more isolation for elderly people who rely on landlines for their access to the outside world, and in many rural areas they may not have good broadband or mobile signal either.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. Unfortunately, in my Strangford constituency, 11 banks have closed, I think, so the impact on rural dwellers is very real. Does the hon. Lady share my concern? If people do not have a bank or the face of someone to talk to, what do they end up doing? They can look towards unregulated moneylending and not receive the appropriate financial advice that they need. With that being the case, the banks and the massive profits they make mean that the ordinary person is suffering even more.

[Anna Sabine]

I totally agree. I had not considered that for my speech, but I will take away unregulated moneylending as a point to note.

Since the Financial Conduct Authority changed its regulations, Link has been able to do some valuable work to provide cash access to local areas. However, I urge the Government to look at how to make the regulations for Link more flexible to allow it to work on a case-by-case basis, as the current criteria do not take into account certain geographical and other barriers that affect rural areas. We know that 93% of people live within 1 mile of an ATM, which on paper sounds good, but it does not take into account issues that might come up in rural areas. For example, if someone lives in a village or hamlet, that 1-mile walk might have no safe walking routes and no bus connection. That is why we want to see the legislation expanded to include specific geographical, physical and societal barriers, so that they are taken into consideration.

[Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is making an excellent speech about both the accessibility of banks and other financial services and the challenges faced by residents in rural areas. In my Reading Central constituency, we face similar challenges with the large village of Caversham, which is now part of Reading. Many Caversham residents struggle because they have to go into Reading town centre. Although it is pedestrianised, it can be quite an intimidating journey for someone who is disabled, and perhaps involves a bus journey for someone with limited mobility. Does the hon. Lady agree that there is a valid point about the location of banking services in terms of how close they are to parking and residents homes, and that short journeys are much better for disabled and vulnerable residents?

[Anna Sabine]

I totally agree with the hon. Member; that is exactly the point that we are trying to make. I believe Link wants the flexibility to make more subtle judgments, rather than working on a flat assessment structure.

With the closure of bank branches, banking hubs are becoming a lifeline for many towns, reinvigorating high streets and increasing football—footfall, even. They probably increase football as well. Frome residents are excited to have their banking hub open soon.

[Adam Dance (Yeovil) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Pritchard. Does my hon. Friend agree that banking hubs are key for financial inclusion? Does she share my concern that the Government’s plan to build 350 banking hubs over five years across the entire country is not enough to ensure proper access to in-person banking and cash services in rural communities? Does she also share my frustration that the town of Ilminster in my constituency has just been denied a banking hub by Link’s reassessment? Will she join me in calling for Link to reconsider its decision?

[Anna Sabine]

I am sorry to hear about what is happening in Ilminster; it sounds very frustrating. I will talk a little more about banking hubs and why they are a good thing that we need more of.

Prosper Frome, an organisation in my constituency that focuses on improving financial accessibility, had been advocating for a banking hub for over a year before it was announced by Link and Cash Access UK in September. That was a great relief to residents, who were about to see their final bank close, but Jean and Sam at Prosper Frome believe that the scope for banking hubs is too narrow, and have been lobbying hard to get a banking hub included as part of a much wider community project, enabling the hub to be multi-purpose. Making banking hubs more diverse widens their appeal and can make banking and financial inclusion the anchor of the kinds of community third spaces that many towns currently lack.

[Steff Aquarone (North Norfolk) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. She is right to say that banking hubs are about more than just access to cash. In the market towns of North Norfolk, our small businesses need access to banking services, which full banking hubs can provide. Does my hon. Friend understand why residents of North Walsham are so frustrated that the outcome of their recent cash review was simply to give them a cash and deposit machine located in the local fried chicken shop?

[Anna Sabine]

That sounds very frustrating; I am sorry to hear it. I will talk about the importance of face-to-face contact in banking.

Shutting branches and opening banking hubs is currently financially efficient for banks, but there is a real risk that those banking hubs could close after a few years once the banks stop saving money and see the hubs as a drain on their profits instead of a benefit. We need reassurance about the long-term provision of banking hubs and a requirement on banks to keep funding them on an ongoing basis.

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. In Wokingham, our application for a banking hub was declined, despite the hard work of one of my constituents, Lynn Forbes. The work of Link, within the current legislation, can help to encourage the protection of face-to-face banking. However, it is not explicitly empowered to take that into account, and it is therefore not considered in Link’s final decision-making process for a banking hub. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government need to introduce further legislation to require the protection of face-to-face banking services?

[Anna Sabine]

I agree with my hon. Friend that we need to tighten up and look again at the criteria to which Link is working, to make sure that banking hubs are in the right places.

To turn away from banking hubs, I would like to raise the role of the post office, which is a vital service in many rural areas. In the village of Rode in my constituency, the post office sits within the local shop and café, doing vital work in not only posting parcels but supporting the local community. We have pop-up post offices in communities such as Freshford and Mells. For the elderly, the post office is a vital support in providing information on how to deal with bills and understand their pension credits, as well as generally giving them someone to talk to. Post office branches provide basic banking services, and in small towns where a banking hub is not viable, post offices are often the only remaining financial institution for customers and small and medium-sized enterprises.

[Joe Morris (Hexham) (Lab)]

The hon. Lady is making an eloquent speech and has been generous with her time. I have talked before about the need for a banking hub in Haltwhistle, in the west of my constituency. It has, unfortunately, lost banking services. Local businesses tell me that the Post Office van that stops there infrequently is simply not enough to regenerate the local economy.

I have been pleased to hear the hon. Lady speak about the need for banking hubs to be decided on slightly more loose criteria. Does she agree that for rural areas in particular, where central towns can be the linchpin of local economies, we should look at how we underpin their economic growth when we consider where we can bring in banking hubs?

[Anna Sabine]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman.

In my constituency, cash deposits are valued at £2.1 million each month, which shows how reliant small businesses and charities are on having access to banking facilities that allow them to withdraw and deposit money.

I would also like to talk about digital inclusion. In a world that is increasingly moving online, many elderly and vulnerable people are being left behind. Older people are not necessarily comfortable using online or even phone banking. They are being forced on to those services, which reduces their financial inclusion and puts them at greater risk of financial fraud. Rural communities can find themselves doubly excluded as more banking services move online, with a lack of access to cash facilities locally and poor digital connectivity.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

Residents have told me that they really valued paper statements. Some 6,000 bank branches have closed in the past nine years. Two of the new banking hubs are in the area that I represent, in Axminster and Sidmouth, but people cannot get hold of printed statements. Does my hon. Friend agree that they ought to be able to get them at banking hubs?

[Anna Sabine]

That is a great question from my hon. Friend. I believe people should. As I understand it, there is a challenge relating to banking hubs and printers because there is a data or GDPR issue with the different banks sharing the printer. That definitely needs to be looked into for banking hubs.

To return to poor digital connectivity, just this week I had an email from a couple in their 70s who run a small artisan business in Pilton. They are getting speeds of only around 1.5 to 3 megabits if they use a normal router, but when they asked to be connected to the nearby Glastonbury exchange they were told it would cost them £290,000, including VAT. I have heard about similar issues from farmers in my constituency who cannot get broadband past the boundary of their farm, which can be several miles from the actual property.

Financial and digital inclusion are critically linked. For those on low incomes, access to online banking can be costly, requiring a computer or mobile phone data. For people in rural areas, it is tricky to manage finances online with limited access to broadband.

[Chris Bloore (Redditch) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this important debate. I also represent a rural constituency, and one of the big problems is that many older-generation residents have lost their buses over the past 10 years—thousands of bus routes have been lost. Right now, some of my oldest residents in a rural area are facing the prospect of losing the 145 bus, which is their only connection to the banks that remain in the constituency. I hope the hon. Lady agrees that the Government’s recent extra funding will help us to protect those routes. I urge local councils not to risk older residents being cut off from key banking institutions.

[Anna Sabine]

I agree that bus routes are critical to rural communities. It would have been lovely if we could have kept the bus fare cap at £2—that has made it a bit harder—but I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman about buses and their importance in those areas.

I am going to make some progress now. I urge the Government to think carefully about how they move forward with legislation on digital services for banking, especially in rural areas.

Finally, although this is not necessarily a rural issue, I would like to make the Minister aware of a specific issue relating to the identity requirements for a bank account. I visited my local food bank in Frome on Monday, and people told me that although the Government have a website designed to help those without an address to get the ID they need to open a bank account, there is a critical flaw in the process. The last stage of the website requires the applicant to get a professional, such as an accountant or lawyer, who is personally known to them to sign off on their application. Clearly, that is not possible for many of those who apply. Please will the Minister look at that? It is currently preventing many people from accessing the ID they need to get a bank account.

I am pleased that the Government’s plans talk about financial inclusion, but the Lib Dems want to go further and see a dedicated national financial inclusion strategy. That would require the Financial Conduct Authority to have regard to financial inclusion, such as by protecting access to cash, especially in remote areas, by supporting banking hubs, by expanding access to bank accounts and by supporting vulnerable customers. As technology and innovation evolve, it is critical that we bring everyone along on the journey. That is very much the case when it comes to finances. Rural areas deserve the same levels of financial access as everyone else, and I urge the Government to bear that in mind in their decision making.

Farming and Food Security

Anna Sabine Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Tim Farron]

The right hon. Member is absolutely right. I support the NFU’s call for accurate labelling that is enforceable, and he is right to say that.

To move on, if we are losing farms and losing farmers, which we are as we speak, not only are we losing our ability to feed ourselves as a country, but we are undermining our ability to deliver for the environment. Let us not fall into the mistake of thinking that this is a debate between caring for the environment and producing food; we either do them both or we do not do them at all. Some 70% of England’s land mass is agricultural, and the figure would be greater across the UK as a whole. If we think we are tackling the climate and nature crises without farmers, we are kidding ourselves. The greenest policies in the world will just be bits of paper in a drawer if we do not have the farmers on the ground to put them into practice.

[Anna Sabine (Frome and East Somerset) (LD)]

Farmers in Frome and East Somerset, like many farmers, work tirelessly to produce food for our country. However, does my hon. Friend agree that it is vital to acknowledge the role they also play in restoring nature and mitigating the effects of climate change, and that the Government need to support farmers to develop natural climate solutions to restore nature?

[Tim Farron]

I completely agree with that, and it leads me on to what I was going to say next, which is to praise Michael Gove. The environmental land management scheme created at the beginning of the last Parliament has an awful lot going for it, and there is actually cross-party support for the idea of public money for public goods, as my hon. Friend rightly points out.

I will say this: we have searched high and low for Brexit benefits, and this might be one of them. The common agricultural policy was riddled with all sorts of failures, some of which have been mentioned already. ELMs provide the possibility to have a bespoke farming and cultural environment policy that actually delivers what we want in the places where we want it, and providing environmental goods is absolutely part of that.

However, this positive idea with all-party support was botched by the last Administration. There was a £2.4 billion budget for England alone—eroded, of course, over five years by inflation and all the shocks we have talked about—yet even that pitiful budget, which was frozen by the last Government, was underspent by £358 million. What does that mean? It reduces our ability to feed ourselves as country, to restore nature and to tackle climate change. We did not spend the money not because farmers did not need it, but because of a surplus of complacency from a Conservative party that thought the countryside would always vote for it, because of a lack of care for farmers, their families and their communities, and from a fundamental absence of competence.

My message to the Secretary of State, the Treasury, the Prime Minister, and every Labour MP is this: please do not let the Treasury take financial advantage of Tory incompetence. Do not bake in the underspend. Please, Secretary of State, do not give in to No.11 and No.10. Protect this budget, because without that public money we will not get those public goods. Please fight your corner—[Interruption.] I am pleased to hear him say that he will do so. In fighting his corner, he will be fighting the countryside’s corner, and I want to support him in that.

I would like the Labour party to understand why the Conservatives botched the transition and why the money did not get spent. One of the few efficient things that the previous Administration did was to get rid of the basic payment on time and without any delay. That happened without any problems whatsoever. What did not happen at the same time was the adequate rolling out of new ELMs payments, in particular the sustainable farming incentive. We had a stop-start approach, and many people on historic stewardship schemes for example, were simply not able to get into the SFI.

At the Westmorland county show a few weeks ago I spoke to a youngish hill farmer in his 40s—I mention this particular case because it is so typical of all the others I have spoken about in my constituency and beyond. He said to me that by the end of the process he will have lost £40,000 in basic payments from his annual income. He will gain £14,000 in SFI, and by the way that cost him £6,000 in agent fees. That is a net loss every year of £26,000, and that is typical. That is why there is an underspend. Please do not bake it in. The Secretary of State rightly spoke about mental health, and in this time of flux and change I have never worried more about the mental health of my constituents, and of farmers in particular.