Oral Answers to Questions

Amber Rudd Excerpts

Monday 1st July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

1. What progress her Department has made on rolling out universal credit.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Amber Rudd)]

The national roll-out of universal credit was completed in December 2018. As of May 2019, there are now more than 2 million people claiming universal credit, and of those, 34% are in work. We now plan to begin “the move to UC” pilot later this month.

[Drew Hendry]

The right hon. Lady’s Government promised that

“universal credit should not leave councils out of pocket.”

Yet Highland Council has nearly £3 million of additional costs, including £640,000 of indisputable administration costs, directly as a result of universal credit. Despite letters, questions and meetings with officials and Ministers, where details and data have all been provided, there is still no settlement. When will this debt to highland households finally be repaid?

[Amber Rudd]

I am aware that the hon. Gentleman has raised this matter before and has had a number of meetings with the Minister for Employment. As a result of some of those meetings, we have already increased the additional funds available to councils such as the one to which he refers. There has been an increase in the total amount of new burdens money that has been paid out, but we have also said that we will investigate further. I want to reassure him that this is not finished yet, and that I will continue to look at it myself to ensure that there is satisfaction.

[Stephen Kerr (Stirling) (Con)]

May I thank my right hon. Friend for her very successful visit to Stirling last Thursday and Friday? When we met the work coaches and the other staff of the Department of Work and Pensions team at Randolphfield, was she struck, as I was once again, by their degree of dedication and their genuine concern for the claimants with whom they work? They are a credit to themselves and to the DWP team. Does she agree that, rather than spread fear and scaremongering, Scottish National party Members should be encouraging the people who live in their constituencies to go to the DWP to get the help that they need, confident that they will be respected and treated with genuine dignity?

[Amber Rudd]

I thank my hon. Friend for his important question and for setting up the visit, which was so useful and purposeful. I do note that when I went to the jobcentre and met the work coaches, they were passionate about delivering the right outcomes for their constituents. When we asked them what they would change about universal credit, they said the publicity, because they are so committed to getting the right outcomes for the right people. These are people who are doing good work for good people.

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm for the record that any EU national who has been granted settled status in the United Kingdom is regarded as being habitually resident for the purposes of applying for and receiving universal credit?

[Amber Rudd]

That is largely correct. The only issue here is about the evidence that people now have to supply which they did not have to supply before. I know that there are a number of places where people were able to claim benefits and they now no longer qualify for universal credit. We are looking at those individually to see whether it is an issue with their application for settled status or something else.

[Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab)]

21. Universal credit was rolled out in my area last year. Staff at my local citizens advice bureau found that, last year, 1,882 people contacted them in relation to debt linked to universal credit. Surely that is an indication of how many people are finding difficulty in managing during that initial five-week wait. Will the Secretary of State tell me when the Government will act to end the misery of the five-week wait?

[Amber Rudd]

In answer to the first part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, which is about assistance in getting the applications through, we announced in April this year the help-to-claim arrangements so that applicants who are struggling to apply for universal credit can have the additional support they need from citizens advice bureaux. I hope that he will find that that is working well in his local bureau. On the second part about getting money to people earlier, as he will be aware, we have made advances available and we are extending the amount of time over which people have to repay it and the amount that is deducted from their core amounts so that they do not feel it as badly as they would have previously.

[Mr Speaker]

With commendable brevity, I feel sure. Neil Gray.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)]

Research released last week from the Child Poverty Action Group and the Church of England shows that women are being forced to choose between poverty and an abortion because of this Government’s two-child cap—that is the reality facing families with three or more children. It appears unlikely that the Secretary of State will face another Work and Pensions Question Time, so will she make it her legacy to scrap the two-child cap and avoid impoverishing half of all children in those families?

[Amber Rudd]

I will try not to be distracted by the hon. Gentleman’s slightly personal remarks. He might know that I visited Scotland last week, and the Scottish Government have taken their own steps on what they feel is the way to address child poverty. Those of us on the Government side of the House feel that the best way to address child poverty is to help more people into work. I am proud of the fact that there are now 1 million more people in work and that over 600,000 children are no longer in houses where no people work.

[Neil Gray]

I note that the Secretary of State did not answer my question. I would like to compare and contrast, because CPAG has said of the two-child cap,

“you could not design a policy better to increase child poverty”,

but last week it described the new Scottish child benefit, to which the Secretary of State referred, as

“an absolute game changer in the fight to end child poverty”.

Therefore, on the 20th anniversary of the reconvened Scottish Parliament, is this not yet another example of where Holyrood empowers, Westminster impoverishes?

[Amber Rudd]

Again, I point to the fact that there are different ways of addressing poverty, both child poverty and family poverty: one is to hand out money, which is what the Scottish Government have chosen to do; and another is to focus, with laser-like attention, on ensuring that we build the economy and create employment and that there are good jobs so that people can support their family.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (Ind)]

2. Whether she has made an assessment of the potential merits of splitting her Department into two separate Departments.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Amber Rudd)]

There has been no such assessment. As one Department, we have rolled out universal credit, providing a holistic benefits system to ensure that everyone is given the support they need. As one Department, we have seen record levels of employment and the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s.

[Stephen Lloyd]

I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. However, she will be aware that there is a significant difference between the benefits of universal credit, disability benefits and pensions. She will also be aware that certain newspapers are prone, when talking about the allegedly outrageous amounts of money that people on unemployment or disability benefits get, to look only at the Department’s overall spend. Of course, as she will be aware, 90% of that spend is on pensions. Would it not be simpler, easier and more straightforward simply to split DWP into two Departments, so that both can focus on what they should be focusing on?

[Amber Rudd]

Although I recognise the good work that the hon. Gentleman has done in many of these areas, I respectfully disagree. I think that it is right that those elements are held together in one Department. If we look at the results, we are seeing record levels of pensioner poverty—[Interruption.]

[Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)]

Yes, we are.

[Amber Rudd]

I say quickly to the hon. Lady on the Opposition Front Bench that we are seeing the lowest levels of pensioner poverty, as well as the highest levels of employment.

[Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con)]

I very much welcome the recent decision to move the Office for Disability Issues into the Cabinet Office, creating a super-hub of all equalities work right across Government. Will the new hub be leading the reform to statutory sick pay so that it is better enforced, more flexible and covers the lowest-paid workers, and when will the consultation on this vital reform take place?

[Amber Rudd]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, and may I take this opportunity to pay homage to the extraordinary work that she did to ensure that took place? The point of having an equalities hub in the Cabinet Office is to ensure that we have strong enforcement to deliver on the disabilities changes across Government. With her help, following the work she put in, we are able to do that.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

And my tie has whales on it, Mr Speaker—Japan comes to mind. The fact of the matter is that the Secretary of State knows that she has some really good people working in her Department—certainly the people working in my patch are very good—but the trouble is that they are not well managed or well led. Splitting is not the answer; the answer is to get in some managers who can tackle things such as the awful situation for people on universal credit who do not have a bank account, because she has still not tackled that.

[Amber Rudd]

I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that we are working with Lloyds, for instance, to ensure that basic bank accounts are more available. May I also take this opportunity to join him in praising the work of the staff at the jobcentre in Huddersfield to help people in his constituency?

[Emma Dent Coad (Kensington) (Lab)]

3. What recent assessment her Department has made of trends in the level of child poverty.

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[Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab)]

16. What recent discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Justice on universal credit claims and access to legal aid.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Amber Rudd)]

The Ministry of Justice is responsible for access to legal aid, and we will continue to work closely with it as it reviews the means test for entitlement. However, that is not the only initiative on which we have been working together. For instance, I recently announced an ex-offenders pilot scheme, which will provide enhanced employment support and help with access to universal credit in order to lift people out of the cycle of reoffending.

[Shabana Mahmood]

Solicitors in my constituency have told me that the DWP is refusing to supply written confirmation in the precise legal format that is required for legal aid applications made by people on universal credit. It is a case of one Government body refusing to comply with the rules of another. Is the Secretary of State aware of how deep these problems go, and will she ensure that no universal credit claimant misses out on legal aid because the DWP cannot follow the rules of the Ministry of Justice?

[Amber Rudd]

I am surprised to hear that question from the hon. Lady. According to my experience and the evidence that I have received during my conversations with the Ministry of Justice, there is no problem and it has been possible to passport in the same way. I hope that that will continue, but, as the hon. Lady knows, the Ministry of Justice is conducting a review. If she will write to me about that particular case, I will look at it myself.

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[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Amber Rudd)]

Now that we have moved from the design to the implementation of universal credit we continue to seek ways to ensure that it is a fair, compassionate benefit that takes account of people’s circumstances. I know that there have been concerns across the House about how overpayments of benefits that result from fraud or error are recovered from claimants, and I pay tribute to the hon. Member for High Peak (Ruth George) and my hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) for alerting me to this issue.

I am able to announce today that in cases where a claimant has been convicted of defrauding the Department and their only considerable asset is their home, we will take account of this prior to instigating Crown court proceedings to recover assets under the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. This ensures a proportional response that should not result in the claimant having to subsequently apply to the Department for housing benefit. We believe this provides the right balance between pursuing what is owed to the Department and acknowledging the deprivation debt recovery can cause some claimants.

[Robert Halfon]

I had intended to ask another question, but I want to refer to the answer given to me by the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work; he is a very serious Minister but gave a very disappointing answer worthy of Sir Humphrey. The fact is that my constituent Lacey-Rose Samaanthy, who is deaf, was offered a job by the NHS in mid-Essex; I saw the letter. That job offer was then rescinded because it said it was too difficult. She then got another very similar job in another organisation and it was able to adapt to her needs. This sort of thing should not be happening; it is incredibly unjust, and I want to know what the Department is going to do about it by being humane and showing compassion to my constituent.

[Amber Rudd]

I thank my right hon. Friend for being such a great champion of people with disabilities and tackling the challenges they have in the workplace, and I must say that the example he has given is very disappointing, because we would always hope and expect employers to show compassion and support where they have applications and the opportunity to employ disabled people. The work that this Government are doing will always try to address that, and with my right hon. Friend’s help we will make sure we get it right.

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

The two men competing to be the next Prime Minister have both said they would be willing to push through a catastrophic no deal. That is despite long-running warnings that disabled people will be hit hard by a no deal, with risks to vital medical supplies and the recruitment of care workers and the loss of the European social fund. However, last week Ministers revealed that the Government have not carried out any assessment of the impact of no deal on disabled people, so will the Minister commit to carrying out such an assessment, and could he in good conscience be part of a Government who pushed through such a reckless act?

[Amber Rudd]

The hon. Lady may be aware that I have some concerns about no deal; I would much prefer that this country chooses to leave the European Union on the basis of a deal, and I am hopeful that when we have a new leader in place we will be able to arrive at that position, possibly even with the support of the hon. Lady, to try to ensure that we get an exit that supports disabled people as well as everyone else.

[Luke Graham (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Con)]

T6. I established a universal credit action group in my constituency to track local progress and add performance indicators to see how the roll-out is going in Clackmannanshire. What measures are in place to track local success and progress? Are Ministers willing to meet me to discuss the progress of my action group?

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[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

T2. I have the honour of chairing the all-party parliamentary group for terminal illness, and we have been taking evidence over recent months on the challenges that dying people face in accessing social security due to the six-month rule. Incidentally, the Scottish Government are already committed to allowing clinicians to make judgments for PIP, with their limited powers. We will be launching the report on Wednesday at 4 o’clock in the Members’ Dining Room, so will the Minister attend and agree to meet me and Marie Curie to discuss the report’s findings?

[Amber Rudd]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his work in this area, and I reassure him that there have been several meetings with Marie Curie on this subject. I will take an interest in the report that is coming out on Wednesday, and I can tell him that we are once more looking at this matter again.

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

T8. Will the Minister provide an update on the Department’s work to help people who are out of employment back into work, particularly in the Black Country and, more specifically, in my constituency of Walsall North?

[Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Ind)]

T3. I want to ask the Secretary of State about my constituent who hanged himself shortly after losing his personal independence payment. I wrote to her asking whether she would establish an inquiry, whether that inquiry would be independent, whether it would be headed by somebody who knows something about this area, whether it would report in three months, and whether the report will be made public.

[Amber Rudd]

I am taking this case very seriously, and I have had the right hon. Gentleman’s letter. At the moment, we are doing an internal inquiry, and if the right hon Gentleman will leave that with me, I will come and talk to him if anything additional is required.

[Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con)]

T10. Earlier this year, I visited the Friendly Autism Moray Experience in Lossiemouth. FAME is paid for by the Lossie Entertainment Academy and works in collaboration with the DWP and Moray’s autism services. Local DWP manager Jane Munro has seen people on the project and believes that their contribution increases both their capabilities and their confidence. Does the Minister agree that we should support this valuable project? Will he also wish everyone involved with FAME all the best for the future?

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[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

T7. With the childcare element of universal credit being paid in arrears, many people, particularly women, face a real barrier to entering work. Will the Secretary of State look at either paying that element in advance or paying for the first month of childcare for free so that all parents can access the employment market?

[Amber Rudd]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising this question, and I am mindful of the Select Committee report that addressed some of it. We have now made changes so that women going into work for the first time from benefits—either universal credit or a legacy benefit—will be able to access advance payments for that first month so that they do not have to find the money themselves. I am making sure that work coaches have more independence to support people back into work; that is one of the changes I have made.

[Gillian Keegan (Chichester) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend tell me whether poverty has risen or fallen since 2010?

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

T9. Have the Government come to a view on Philip Alston’s report on poverty in the UK?

[Amber Rudd]

We have made substantial responses to Philip Alston’s report. We have acknowledged some of his suggestions, and we will look at changing our assessments on poverty by using the Social Metrics Commission’s proposal. Otherwise, we are disappointed by the very political nature of his approach.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Hollobone]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that, when fully rolled out, spending on universal credit will actually be £2 billion a year higher than is currently spent on the equivalent legacy benefits, and that this will be worth some £300 a year to each recipient family?

[Amber Rudd]

I can confirm that, and it is refreshing to be able to point out that universal credit is, compared with the legacy benefits, a more generous, more effective and better-targeted system, and it is also better funded.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

My 16-year-old constituent has a severe hearing impairment and has been on DLA since the age of three. My constituent has recently been reassessed and is now receiving no support whatsoever. How do the Government justify such decisions?

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[Mr Speaker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I have not received any indication that a Minister is planning to make an oral statement in the House on this matter, although it is perfectly open to a Minister to offer to do so. The Northcote-Trevelyan principles are of the utmost importance, and I hope they will be upheld by Governments indefinitely. They have existed for a long time because the principles involved—permanence, anonymity and neutrality—are absolutely sacred. I simply suggest that the hon. Gentleman pursues the matter with his characteristic persistence and vigour, and I feel sure that, using the Order Paper and the resources provided by the Table Office, he will be happy to do so.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Amber Rudd)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to reassure the House that we have complete confidence in the fairness and independence of the civil service. It has said that it will respond and I frankly question the good judgment of the shadow Minister for bringing this up in the House at this stage, before it has had the chance to do so.

[Jon Trickett]

rose—