Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Tuesday 6th June 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 1A.

1A: Leave out subsections (1B) to (1D)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Motion A, I will also speak to the other Motions in this group. It feels very recent that we had Third Reading on the Bill, as the other place has returned it remarkably quickly.

Motion A covers this House’s Amendment 1. The original amendment was to require a Joint Committee to consider the revocation list and to arrange debates in both Houses with respect to anything that represented a change to the law before the legislation on it could be revoked. I thank the noble Lords who sponsored this amendment for not pushing it again today.

Motions B and B1 cover the Commons disagreement to Lords Amendment 6. I sympathise with the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, in lieu of Amendment 6 on its intent to help establish legal clarity. Indeed, one of the main purposes of the Bill is to simplify the statute book. However, in my view, such an amendment is not necessary. The amendment seeks to clarify that the new clause “Retained EU law dashboard and report”, inserted by Lords Amendment 16, will include those rights, powers and liabilities referred to in Section 4 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. I am happy to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, today that the Government intend to ensure that rights, powers, and liabilities referred to in Section 4 of the 2018 Act will be included in future dashboard updates and accompanying reporting. The Government will include those rights, powers and liabilities that they have explicitly codified or intend to codify, as well as those they have decided not to codify because they are no longer fit for purpose. I hope that this provides the necessary clarity around which matters, originally retained under Section 4 of the 2018 Act, will be codified into domestic law. I thank the noble Lord for his valuable and collegiate engagement on this matter. I hope that this commitment provides him with the reassurance he is looking for and that he therefore will not press his Motion.

Turning to the Motion to amend the drafting of what was Amendment 16, I know that many noble Lords have strong views on Amendment 16 and the Motions concerning it. The other place inserted further measures to strengthen the reporting requirements and to ensure that the Government inform Parliament of their progress on using the powers in the Bill and their forthcoming plans on a more frequent basis. The Motion in my name therefore simply tidies that drafting and, on that basis, I hope that the House is able to support it.

Finally, I call on the House to reject the amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson. The Government recognise the significant role that Parliament has played in scrutinising instruments and are committed to ensuring the appropriate scrutiny under the delegated powers in the Bill, including any instruments made under the powers to revoke or replace. This amendment would impose a novel and untested scrutiny procedure on regulations proposed to be made using the powers to revoke or replace. This novel approach is, in our view, simply unnecessary.

The Government will ensure that any significant retained EU law reforms will receive the appropriate level of scrutiny by the relevant legislatures and are subject to all the usual processes for consultation and impact assessment. However, it is important that we ensure that the limited amount of parliamentary time available is used appropriately and effectively.

The existing sifting procedures in the Bill have been purposely drafted as a safeguarding measure for these powers and already contain adequate scrutiny. They allow for additional scrutiny for the exercise of the power to revoke or replace, while retaining the flexibility of using the negative procedure where there are good reasons to do so—for example, in repealing redundant rules that no longer have any purpose on the UK statute book.

In addition, in certain situations, notably the use of subsection (3), the affirmative procedure continues to be required. The existing procedure will give the UK Parliament the opportunity to take an active role in the development of this legislation. It is a tried and tested method of parliamentary scrutiny which, in my view, delivers good results for everyone and draws on the experience of our parliamentary committees. We will, of course, respect the judgment of the sifting committees relevant to the Bill, in the same way as we did for the EU withdrawal Act. Therefore, I do not consider the proposed amendments to be necessary. I hope this provides the House with sufficient reassurance on this matter.

[Lord Anderson of Ipswich (CB)]

My Lords, I will speak to Motions B1 and E1 in my name in this group. Having heard the Minister, I can be brief on Motion B1, which concerns a sometimes-neglected part of the Bill. Clause 3 is headed “Revocation of retained EU rights, powers, liabilities etc”. That clause is unaffected by the Government’s concession on the sunset and continues to provide for all directly affected provisions of EU law—whether they are found in the treaty, in directives, or in international agreements—to be revoked at the end of the year. My concern in tabling this amendment has been to know precisely what is being revoked and what will be proposed by way of replacement.

To that end, Motion B1, which builds on the helpful amendment originally proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, seeks a guarantee that the directly affected provisions will be fully included in dashboard updates, as they have not been to date, and that the Government will give us clear warning in advance of those which they intend to carry over into our law and those which they may have decided not to carry over.

Unpicking provisions so deeply embedded in our law will not be a simple business. I declare an interest as a lawyer who sometimes needs to advise in this area. Such a commitment will be helpful to anyone who needs to understand what our law provides and how it is intended to be changed. I am grateful to the Minister and the Bill team for their constructive engagement on this issue, and for the clear commitments that he has just offered. In the circumstances, I am confident that I do not need to trouble the House with a Division on this issue.

Motion E1 is of a constitutional nature and concerns what, to some of us, has always been the most troubling feature of the Bill. It is nothing to do with the dashboard, direct effect or even the end-of-year sunset. It is rather the delegated superpower, headed “Powers to revoke or replace”, which currently appears as Clause 14. I remind the House of its most remarkable feature, subsection (3), which states:

“A relevant national authority may by regulations revoke any secondary retained EU law and make such alternative provision as the relevant national authority considers appropriate”.


That power will last until June 2026, which even we in the ivory tower of these Benches understand is some time after the next general election. It allows the Government to make regulations that Parliament cannot amend or, in practice, block, even when those regulations have quite different objectives from the laws that they replace, as the Bill makes clear.

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to speak briefly to Motion E1 and to start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for his work on this amendment and throughout consideration of the Bill. Noble Lords will be aware that the amendment differs from the one we debated in Committee and on Report. They will also know that, since the Bill was first published, we have been concerned that it gives Ministers far too much power without reference to Parliament. Clause 15 was especially difficult for parliamentarians to accept, given the extraordinarily wide-ranging powers to rewrite regulations which, in effect, could have similar power to primary legislation. This point was made by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, but it is worth repeating.

Motion E1 allows for a committee to consider regulations when they are rewritten by Ministers and, where necessary, to refer them to the House for consideration. This is a more modest suggestion than that proposed and agreed by this House at Report. As we have heard, a not dissimilar process was used for the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 and, as the noble Lord, Lord Lisvane, informed us, the Census Act.

Our view is that this approach is proportionate, not obstructive of the Government’s intentions and should be acceptable to them. We are concerned that the Commons has so far continued to push back on parliamentary scrutiny and views the procedure proposed by this House as inappropriate, but we hope that the newly constructed amendment proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, will be welcomed by the Government and the other place.

The Commons has expressed a view, but we are returning to it a compromise. We on these Benches consider it to be the appropriate, reasonable and responsible thing to do. Following the question of the noble Lord, Lord Jackson, about whether we are imposing ourselves on the other place, I note that it adjourned a couple of hours ago and seems to have adequate time in its schedule to consider a rather modest suggestion from this House.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, once again, we have had a full, worthy debate on the Bill. I will keep my response brief, as many of these points are well worn and we have largely covered them in opening the debate.

I say to the House that this is not just an ordinary legislative amendment; it is about the procedures of Parliament. It is not even about the procedures of this House; it is about the procedures of the other place. The amendment seeks for this House to say to the House of Commons, “We think that you should set up by legislation an entirely untested and novel way of conducting your scrutiny of secondary legislation”, when the House of Commons has already said it does not wish to do that and does not think it appropriate. It is entirely inappropriate for us to do that when we have already heard the answer once.

The Bill is vital, and now that we have taken back control of our statute book, it is essential to update and modernise by amending, repealing or replacing those rules and regulations that are no longer fit or were never fit for the UK. This will allow us to create a new pro-growth, high-standards regulatory framework to give businesses the confidence to innovate, invest and create jobs. It will provide legal certainty and clarity across the statute book, ensuring we have consistent rules of interpretation across the UK body of law.

Let me mention briefly some of the points raised in the debate. On Motions B and B1, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, for his speech. I hope that the House will move forward with Motion B.

Let me reply briefly to the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, on the timescale for this work. We will add Section 4 rights to the dashboard as identified at least as frequently as every six months, as per the reporting requirement clause that is already in the Bill.

With regards to Motion E1, as I have already said, the Government listened to the views of this House on a number of issues in the Bill. We have already modified the schedule massively to take account of the many concerns that were addressed. I have to say, I consider it an unfair characterisation that the Government have ignored this House—far from it. It is much to the contrary.

On the Motion itself, I can only stress to the House that we believe this proposed novel scrutiny procedure to be unnecessary. The House of Commons has said that it also believes it to be unnecessary. With the reporting requirements already in the Bill and the proven sifting committee procedure that we have already agreed, Parliament will have strong provisions to scrutinise any legislation that is brought forward under this Bill. In the Government’s view, the appropriate balance between the need for scrutiny and the need for reform has been struck. I therefore hope that noble Lords will not push forward this amendment.

Motion A agreed.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 6, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 6A.

6A: Because the retention of anything which is retained EU law by virtue of section 4 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 would be inconsistent with the abolition of the principle of supremacy of EU law.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 15, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 15A.

15A: Because the Commons do not consider the Lords Amendment necessary in order to maintain environmental protection or food standards.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, in moving Motion C, I will also speak to Motion C1, both of which relate to Lords Amendment 15.

We have had myriad discussions on environmental protections during the passage of the REUL Bill. I can only stress once again that the Government have no intention of lowering environmental standards, nor of breaching their international obligations. This not only makes the restrictions that this amendment places on the usage of the reforming powers with regard to the environment unnecessary; it also risks delaying or even preventing reform where it would be beneficial to do so. Indeed, as drafted, this amendment may in fact also make it more difficult for departments to ensure that the policy effect of environmental regulations can be maintained at the end of the year through exercising the restatement power. By doing so, it could actively undermine the purpose that it seeks to achieve.

As I and Ministers in the other place have set out previously, the Government are fully committed to upholding environmental standards. Defra has already reformed retained EU law in a number of key areas through flagship legislation, such as the Fisheries Act 2020 and the Agriculture Act 2020. In addition, since leaving the EU, the Government have also passed the landmark Environment Act 2021 and published strategies including the Environmental Improvement Plan 2023. Any changes to legislation will need to support these ambitions as well as be consistent with our international obligations. Furthermore, Defra has in many areas already reformed its retained EU law to streamline and update it without diminishing—in fact, strengthening in some cases—our levels of environmental protection.

We are very clear that this sets a direction of travel on environmental regulation that makes this amendment unnecessary and, as I said, the amendment may make it more difficult to reach the ambition on environmental protections that I am sure is shared widely across the House. I therefore ask the House to support Motion C and the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, to withdraw his Motion C1.

Motion C1 (as an amendment to Motion C)

Moved by

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As the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, said, this is very uncontroversial. I await the Minister’s response with interest, but if the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, wishes to test the opinion of the House, he will have our strong support.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I can keep my response brief. I have lost track of the number of times during the passage of the Bill that we have had this debate. We had it in Committee, on Report and we are having it now—and of course it was repeated in the House of Commons. The House of Commons has heard the assurances of the Government. I suspect that nothing else I can say will change most Members’ minds but, for the benefit of the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, I will repeat the arguments again.

The noble Lord’s Motion proposes to insert additional measures into the Bill on environmental protections. I appreciate the sentiment, and we recognise the importance of maintaining our environmental standards, but the Government do not believe this amendment to be necessary. The UK is a world leader in environmental protection, despite what the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, wants to tell us, and we will continue to uphold our environmental protections. Furthermore, in a debate in the other place, the House of Commons rejected essentially a similar amendment by a majority of 77.

We are committed to our environmental protections. Nothing in this Bill changes that commitment. As I referenced in my opening speech, we have substantive concerns that this amendment, in the way that it is worded, would actually make it more difficult to uphold those environmental commitments. I hope that, if the Motion is moved to a vote, the House will reject it.

[Lord Krebs (CB)]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate, and I thank the Minister for his response. I will not speak for very long but I want to make three specific comments in response to particular points that have been made.

The noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, referred to food standards. I remind noble Lords that this version of the amendment does not include food, so the noble Lord can relax in his seat and not worry about food.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lawlor, seemed to imply that the amendment would somehow fossilise existing regulations in relation to the environment. It is not about fossilising existing regulations; it is about allowing change and improvement as long as they do not dilute environmental protection and as long as they are made in consultation with, and on the advice of, experts, and that that advice is published. This is not trying to freeze things in 2023 at all. I hope that provides reassurance.

As a final point, in response to the Minister, who repeated the oft-quoted mantra that the UK is “world-leading” in environmental protection, I remind him of what I read out less than half an hour ago from the Government’s own watchdog. It makes grim reading. We are failing on all the targets that the OEP looked at. We are not world-leading; we are struggling. This simple and modest amendment aims to put further legal protections around what the Government claim they are doing anyway; it is simple, modest and straight- forward.

I would not like to be the one going home to explain to my children and grandchildren that I stood up and voted against protecting our environment. I hope that other noble Lords feel the same—that those who have children or grandchildren and are thinking of the future would want to protect the environment on their behalf. Therefore, I wish to ask the House to agree to Motion C1.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That this House do disagree with the Commons in their Amendment 16A, do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 16B, and do propose Amendment 16C as an amendment to Lords Amendment 16 in lieu of Commons Amendment 16A—

16A: In subsection (2)(c), at end insert “including specifying in a list such provisions of retained EU law as is intended to be revoked or reformed”

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That this House do not insist on its Amendment 42, to which the Commons have disagreed for their Reason 42A.

42A: Because the Commons consider the scrutiny procedure imposed by the Lords Amendment to be inappropriate.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023.

Relevant document: 38th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

Motion agreed.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Non-Standard Cases) Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Non-Standard Cases) Regulations 2023

Relevant document: 38th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

Motion agreed.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) Regulations 2023.

Relevant document: 38th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

Motion agreed.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations 2023.

Relevant document: 38th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

Motion agreed.

Energy Bills Discount Scheme Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Regulations 2023.

Relevant document: 38th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations were laid before the House on 25 April this year, as were the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023, the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations 2023, the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) Regulations 2023 and the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Non-Standard Cases) Regulations 2023.

These instruments ensure that essential energy bill support continues to be provided to eligible UK businesses, charities and public sector organisations, following on from the energy bill relief scheme support, which ended on 31 March this year. Each of them is a replacement for an earlier set of regulations that implemented that original scheme. Together, they cover UK businesses that are supplied by both licensed gas and electricity suppliers and licence-exempt suppliers. They also ensure that any end user receiving energy that is supplied with the benefit of these schemes through an intermediary will get a “just and reasonable” share of that benefit. In the absence of an intervention of this kind, energy bill support would no longer be provided to non-domestic customers where they were exposed to the impact of high wholesale market prices.

The Energy Bills Discount Scheme Regulations for Great Britain, the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Northern Ireland) Regulations, the Energy Bills Discount Scheme (Non-Standard Cases) Regulations, the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations and the Energy Bills Discount Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) Regulations, which I will refer to collectively as the “EBDS Regulations”, have been created under the Energy Prices Act, which the Committee will recall gained Royal Assent on 25 October last year.

The Energy Prices Act, introduced in Parliament on 12 October last year, provided the legislative footing needed to ensure that businesses across the UK receive support with their energy bills through the energy bills discount scheme. The EBDS regulations are essential secondary legislation needed to implement and operationalise the scheme. The purpose of the regulations is to provide a discount on the wholesale costs for electricity and gas supplied by licensed and non-licensed energy suppliers to eligible non-domestic customers, and to make payments to suppliers in respect of those reductions in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. To protect eligible non-domestic customers from excessively high energy bills, the EBDS will run for a 12-month period from 1 April this year to 31 March 2024.

I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for reviewing these regulations. We welcome the conclusion it reached and that it took some assurance regarding the effectiveness of the energy bills relief scheme pass-through requirements. I reaffirm that we will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the EBDS and that we expect to publish a report on both the Great Britain and Northern Ireland EBDS before the end of 2024, including the effectiveness of the pass-through requirements. We will continue to review our pass-through requirement communications strategy, including reviewing guidance on GOV.UK and offering engagement sessions to ensure that intermediaries understand their obligations and that customers receive the benefits that they are entitled to.

I turn to the details of the regulations. The EBDS regulations set out that, with few exceptions, all non-domestic customers with electricity and gas contracts from both licensed and licence-exempt non-domestic energy suppliers will be eligible for a discount when the wholesale element of their contract is above a certain level. Licence-exempt supply includes energy taken from the public electricity grid or received via wire or pipe.

The EBDS GB and EBDS Northern Ireland regulations provide for three elements to the scheme for end users of licensed suppliers. The EBDS (Non-standard Cases) regulations replicate this for end users of licence-exempt suppliers. First, there is a baseline per unit discount applicable to all eligible non-domestic customers’ energy bills throughout the scheme’s duration. The discount will be applied if wholesale prices are above a certain price threshold. Secondly, a higher rate of relief will be provided to those non-domestic customers that carry out a substantial part of their UK activities in certain energy and trade-intensive industry sectors—so-called ETIIs.

Thirdly, there is the support aimed at domestic customers on heat networks. There will be a specific higher EBDS rate for heat networks supplying domestic customers set at a level to ensure that these customers do not face disproportionately higher prices than other domestic customers receiving the energy price guarantee. The EBDS regulations set out the process by which the energy supplier is reimbursed by the Secretary of State for the discounts that it gives. The EBDS (Northern Ireland) Regulations prevent end users who are outside Northern Ireland receiving the discount to their bills.

Finally, the EBDS regulations set out essential operational matters, including information and reporting obligations, enforcement powers and powers to impose civil penalties in respect of missing or defective declarations. Customers who receive gas or electricity from non-licensed suppliers—non-standard cases—will be supported under agreements on standard scheme terms. Due to the complexity of some licence-exempt supply chains, the non-standard cases regulations provide the Secretary of State with powers to obtain information from those involved and imply some terms into the contracts to help the scheme work more smoothly. Additionally, the regulations allow for revised EBRS terms, which expand eligibility under EBRS to include the cohort of non-standard customers who receive their energy via private wire or pipe, at a price pegged to wholesale rates.

The EBDS Pass-through Requirement Regulations, EBDS Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) Regulations, and EBDS (Non-standard Cases) Regulations provide for certain intermediary businesses, often landlords, that receive a benefit under the scheme but in turn provide energy to others to pass a just and reasonable amount of the benefit that they receive on to their end users. The regulations set out obligations on the intermediary, including calculating the amount and providing end users with information about this, as well as passing on the benefit as soon as reasonably practicable. They also set out the dispute mechanisms available.

To accompany the regulations, we have published a suite of non-statutory guidance, which provides further detail on how the schemes work. The objectives of these regulations are to protect businesses and non-domestic customers against the volatility of the variable market and avoid firm closures and redundancies, particularly for ETIIs. They also ensure that domestic end users on qualifying heat networks are offered appropriate support.

In conclusion, the EBDS schemes will be a source of critical support for non-domestic customers in the UK, particularly those in energy-intensive sectors, many of which are essential national infrastructure. I emphasise that the measures in these regulations are crucial, because they bring the schemes into legal existence. The EBDS Great Britain, EBDS Northern Ireland and EBDS non-standard cases schemes complement the existing large-scale support that the Government are providing during the energy crisis.

I hope the Committee will support these measures and their objectives, and I commend the regulations to the Committee.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, that is quite a long introduction, and I thank the Minister for it. I have to admit to him that I was looking around at the pictures, and thinking that it was interesting that Moses managed to base Judaeo-Christian law on 10 paragraphs, whereas here we have about 100 pages on energy. We will perhaps move on to that.

I wanted, while not trying to be disingenuous, to actually congratulate the Government on something in these particular instruments. In the instrument on heat suppliers, no. 455, on page 12, in paragraph 1E(6)(c), we actually have the court being able to apply a fine of up to £5,000 in terms of enforcement, which is how I read it. I thought, “bingo”: there is actually a way in which, when we go through all these pass-through regulations, we could actually have something which might appear like a civil on-the-spot fine, which is a way to deter or provide some jeopardy if these pass-through arrangements are not adhered to. But needless to say, in instrument no. 463, we are back to the 2% on the outstanding amount. I am not asking the Minister to go through that again, but I genuinely believe that there was a sensible solution in terms of enforcement and that sort of approach, which could have been used in the other SIs.

On the energy and trade-intensive industries, one of the sectors that is not there is agriculture. I know that the Minister has a very good relationship with Defra, but I wondered whether he could perhaps take back again the fact that the horticulture sector—poultry, I understand, as well—is equally energy intensive, yet that primary industry sector has been left out. I realise, clearly, that this SI cannot be amended to do that, but I show my regret in this context that the agricultural industry has been left out of that. Perhaps the Minister would like to offer an explanation of why.

There is a cap here, which I am not necessarily against, of £5.5 billion. Is it on a first come, first served basis, or are the Government completely assured that that limit will not be hit?

Lastly, my only other question is whether the Northern Ireland situation has been sorted out with the European Union, in terms of approval, which I understand is in process.

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As everyone knows, when you work at the chalk face with vulnerable customers, such as local authority tenants and so on, the level of vulnerability can be extreme. We need to do everything to make sure that these people are protected as far as possible. I would welcome a reflection on whether there is more we could be doing in this space. However, I welcome the fact that there is a time commitment for the evaluation report, and I look forward to an answer to the questions that I have raised.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, for their valuable contributions. I start by saying that the Government have implemented the EBDS to protect businesses and non-domestic consumers from the volatility of the market and, of course, to deliver critical energy bill support, while also taking account of the fact that wholesale prices are now well below previous levels seen during the peak of the energy crisis. The schemes have been designed to operate robustly and guard against fraud and gaming. We will continue to monitor the schemes to ensure that this support is provided to the people and businesses it is designed to help.

I will now respond to the questions raised by both noble Lords. As the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, pointed out, the regulations require that relevant intermediaries, including landlords, claim the benefit and pass it on to end-users. Intermediaries must take all such reasonable steps necessary to ensure that they are provided with the energy bills discount scheme benefit to which they are entitled, so that they may pass it on to their end-users.

We have taken a consistent approach to determine ETII eligibility. Organisations that operate primarily within an eligible sector will be eligible for the support. This means that about 50% of UK revenue generated in the relevant period must be from activity in an eligible sector. I am sorry to tell the noble Lord that the Government currently have no plans to review the eligibility criteria for the energy and trade intensive element of the EBDS. The Treasury-led review of the energy bill relief scheme took account of many contributions from the private sector, trade associations, the voluntary sector and other types of organisations, and the list is what we ended up with following that.

Finally, I can confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, that discussions with the European Commission are ongoing, and we hope to reach a conclusion on them soon.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blake, also raised the role of intermediaries and pass-through. As she said, we will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the pass-through regulations as well as our communications strategy for communicating to end-users. Detailed guidance has been produced on GOV.UK to help ensure that consumers and intermediaries, and those who advise them, are aware of the specifics of the scheme.

With regard to the noble Baroness’s point on non-standard cases, we have engaged with a range of stakeholders, and the extended eligibility announced on 1 April means that non-domestic customers on private wire networks are now supported. This includes businesses receiving energy from biomass and waste, to give two examples. The Government remain committed to ensuring that consumers continue to receive help with the rising cost of living, which at the moment includes energy bills. These regulations are vital in ensuring that support is delivered to non-domestic customers and, crucially, to domestic heat network consumers. I therefore commend them to the Committee.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

On Northern Ireland, I am interested to understand whether the Commission is being difficult and finding objections or whether it is just a question of it taking the time that it takes.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord will understand that I do not want to go any further at the moment. It is a sensitive area. We are engaging in discussions with the Commission and hope to reach a decision soon. I very much hope that it is not just being deliberately difficult but is seeking the necessary reassurances with regard to the state aid regulations.

Motion agreed.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lord Callanan Excerpts

3rd reading
Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I am disappointed to inform the House that both the Scottish Parliament and the Senedd Cymru have voted to withhold consent for the REUL Bill.

[Noble Lords]

Hooray!

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure we are all shocked to hear that. We acknowledge the concerns of both Parliaments regarding the Bill and the potential impacts on devolved areas. However, it is right and constitutionally appropriate that the REUL Bill applies UK-wide. This will ensure that the benefits of Brexit can be realised by citizens and businesses throughout the whole United Kingdom. The Government therefore intend to proceed with the Bill without their consent. As noble Lords will be aware, the ongoing absence of the Northern Ireland Executive and the Assembly means that it has not been possible to seek legislative consent from the Northern Ireland Assembly on this Bill.

I reassure the House that it was never our intention to proceed with the Bill without consent in place. Our preference would have been to secure legislative consent Motions from the devolved legislatures. The Government have sought to engage proactively with the devolved Administrations on the REUL Bill since March last year. We have listened to their concerns and sought to make meaningful changes to the Bill in response. This includes the amendment to the sunset and the conferral of the powers to make consequential and transitional, transitory and savings provisions to the devolved authorities and devolved Ministers.

The decisions of the Scottish Parliament and the Senedd, while regrettable, will never mark the end of our engagement with the devolved Administrations on retained EU law. We remain committed to supporting sustained engagement with them on the REUL Bill and the REUL reform programme going forward.

Amendment 1

Moved by

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[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, commented that we were rather less than enthusiastic when we discussed this issue last week. I can see why we have got to the position where this amendment has been agreed between the noble Baroness and the Government, and I am very happy for her that she feels satisfied with the movement that the Government have made in getting here. I am afraid that the concerns we have had throughout this process are a long way from being satisfied by the amendment. We do not oppose it particularly, but we are not particularly in favour of it. It does not really do all that much to the substance of what we have been disagreeing about during the passage of the Bill. However, if it helps with some internal political management on the government Benches, that is something that the Minister is entitled to attempt to do.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Well, my Lords, if the Opposition are not enthusiastic about my noble friend’s amendment, I am.

Before I address the amendment, I shall deal with some of the points that Members have raised. First, on the point made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and my noble friend Lady McIntosh about post-devolution rule, that is rule for the devolved Administrations. The reality is that they have not wanted to add anything to the dashboard, and of course we are in no position—and do not wish to force them—to do so. If they wish to add some of their rule to the dashboard then they can, but for now it is just rule made by Her Majesty’s Government. It of course contains UK government legislation that has been made post devolution—just not the rule made by the devolved Administrations.

To answer my noble friend Lady McIntosh’s point, the dashboard has no legal status as such; it is just a list of retained EU law.

Moving on to the main points about my noble friend Lady Noakes’s amendment, the Government have already reformed or revoked over 1,000 pieces of retained EU law, but that is not the limit of our ambition. Departments will continue to review the rule that is not already revoked, reformed or planned for revocation this year in order to identify further opportunities for reform, and we are committed to reducing the burdens on businesses and unlocking the economic growth that will flow from that. As a down payment on our commitment to deliver meaningful reform, the 10 May policy paper Smarter Regulation to Grow the Economy set out our intention to reform regulations and remove burdens on businesses.

We announced changes that will reduce disproportionate EU-derived reporting requirements and could save businesses around £1billion a year. This will just be the first in a series of announcements that the Government will be making in the coming months on reforming regulation in order to drive growth. In addition to the revocation schedule, the powers in the Bill will still enable us to revoke, replace or reform any outdated EU laws that remain on our statute book right through until 2026. This new approach will provide the space for longer-term and more ambitious reforms and the Government intend to do just that. It will also mean that fewer statutory instruments will be required to preserve EU laws that are deemed appropriate or necessary to maintain.

The Brexit Opportunities Unit, spearheaded by the Secretary of State for Business and Trade, has been pivotal in driving the development and delivery of the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill and the wider associated retained EU law reform programme. These efforts are being supported by specialist legal expertise from outside government. Parliament will be able to easily monitor government progress on REUL reform, as we update the dashboard every quarter. That answers the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Fox: we will continue to update the dashboard.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

Did I understand the Minister correctly? Has he just boasted that there will be less parliamentary scrutiny and that we can look it up online?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

You can look up progress online, but of course there will be parliamentary scrutiny. If we propose to make any changes to retained EU law using the powers in the Bill, they will come to Parliament in the normal process of the examination of secondary legislation.

The Brexit Opportunities Unit drove the aforementioned 10 May regulatory reform announcement, setting out a long-term plan to reform UK regulation over the coming months. Furthermore, we have committed to future announcements on how we will reform regulations to reduce the cost of living, deliver choice to consumers, establish trailblazing regulation to catalyse innovation and make the UK a science superpower, and remove obstacles to building world-class infrastructure.

However, it is crucial that Parliament and the public are able to hold the Government’s feet to the fire and ensure that our momentum continues with regard to the retained EU law reform programme. I am therefore delighted to support Amendments 1, 2 and 3, tabled by my noble friend Lady Noakes, to which I have added my name. These amendments insert a new clause into the Bill requiring the Secretary of State to update the retained EU law dashboard and to report on the revocation and reform of retained EU law in periods up to 23 June 2026, at which point, of course, the main powers in the Bill will sunset, and the vast majority of retained EU law reform will have been completed. The reports will summarise the REUL dashboard data, provide an update on whether and how REUL on the dashboard has been revoked and reformed, and detail future plans for further revocation and reform.

I thank in particular my noble friend Lady Noakes for her collegiate engagement in preparing the amendments that she has tabled today. I also extend my thanks to my noble friends Lord Frost, Lord Jackson and Lady Lawlor for their valuable engagement on this matter. These amendments will hold the Government to account in providing the additional transparency both Parliament and the public need to scrutinise the Government’s progress and future plans on retained EU law reform. I therefore hope the House will join me in supporting these amendments.

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB)]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. He has just told us that these amendments will hold Parliament to account. If Parliament is not satisfied with the account it is given under these amendments, what advice would he give to Parliament as to how Ministers can be prevented from carrying out what they have tried to do?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Well, they will hold the Government to account. Of course, Parliament is able to hold the Government to account in many different ways, but particularly, with the reform programme, there would be an extensive programme of statutory instruments. Parliament would be able to debate and accept those instruments or not, as it usually does.

[Baroness Noakes (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have spoken in this debate. I thank my noble friend Lord Callanan in particular for answering the points raised on devolution. I do not think he answered the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, on subsection (4), which is a useful addition because it means that if a report is not laid, we get another opportunity to be told that it has not been laid, and thereby to trigger any accountability mechanisms. I regard it as an important additional subsection, and I shall certainly be using it as a precedent in amendments to other Bills in future.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Bill do now pass.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, this Bill is crucial in ensuring, as I said earlier, that we can seize the regulatory reform opportunities of Brexit. It is the next step in reasserting the sovereignty of Parliament and untangling the United Kingdom from nearly 50 years of EU membership. Through the Bill we will improve legal certainty, removing confusion from our statute book where EU principles of interpretation overlap with those of UK domestic principles. This fulfils an important constitutional objective: that our law is clear and accessible, so that citizens can understand it and regulate their conduct accordingly.

There is a long list of people whom I wish to thank for their help on the Bill. Let me start with my noble friend Lady Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist. Sadly, my noble friend is leaving the Front Bench and she will be missed by us all. My chances of getting to the Chamber on time are greatly reduced without the hurry-up texts from my noble friend Lady Bloomfield, who has kept me right many times in this Chamber and when we have debated statutory instruments in the Grand Committee. I am hugely grateful for all the help and support that she has given to me; I am sure other members of the Front Bench feel the same. She will be a great loss to the Government.

Let me also thank my noble friends Lady Neville-Rolfe and Lord Benyon, and my noble and learned friend Lord Bellamy, for their support during the Bill’s passage. I fear I would have continuously sat on this Bench for a great many days in addition to those when I did without their help and support, which has been greatly appreciated.

Let me also give my thanks to the Bill team. All the Bill teams I have worked with have worked extremely well and tirelessly, but I can tell the House that this Bill team in particular has gone above and beyond the call of duty. I said this when there were some frankly ill-considered remarks about the Civil Service while we were on Report, but many of them really did work all weekend to get the explainer out for the benefit of noble Lords when we were discussing the schedule. Their assistance has been great and their legal advice superb. If there were legal errors in anything that I said, I can assure noble Lords that it was not their fault. The fault was entirely mine, as they did a great job in trying to explain some of these complicated concepts.

I also thank members of the Opposition, including the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, my noble friend Lord Hodgson—who is of course not a member of the Opposition but is on our own Benches and played a big role in the Bill—and the noble Lord, Lord Fox, among many others who contributed to its passage. We did not always agree on many parts of it, of course; I apologise if, from my point of view, I sometimes expressed a little bit of irritation with some of the speeches that were made. Nevertheless, I do accept that it is the job of the House to scrutinise the Government, to look at our legislation closely and to propose amendments. If we could perhaps have a bit more constructive opposition sometimes, I would appreciate it.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Nevertheless, the contributions are appreciated.

The Government have of course sought to address the concerns raised, notably around the sunset and courts provisions. We listened to the points made in the House and addressed those concerns via the amendments that we brought forward on Report. I hope that the House recognises how significant a move this was from the Government and takes that movement in the spirit in which it was intended. We really did try to alter the Bill to take account of many of the concerns that were addressed.

The House has also made its views known on some other areas of the Bill on which the Government do not agree, including the reform and repeal powers we believe are crucial to the ambitions we have in this space. Our work in producing the retained EU law dashboard highlighted that there are many defunct laws on our statute book relating to activities that the UK does not conduct, such as my famous example of regulating reindeer herdsmen in Lapland. Now that we have taken back control of our statute book, it is appropriate to update it by amending, repealing or replacing REUL that is no longer fit for the UK.

I do not think there is much argument on all sides of the House about the list of measures we have produced that deserve to be repealed. This will allow us to create new pro-growth, high-standard regulatory frameworks that give businesses the opportunities and confidence to innovate, invest and ultimately to create jobs. This Bill delivers, in addition to providing clarity and certainty. It provides the powers for the Government to make legislative changes that will benefit all of us in the United Kingdom. With that, I beg to move that the Bill do now pass.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his speech. His answer to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, indicates why what I will call the Hope-Hamilton amendments are so important. I hope it is clear to the Minister that your Lordships’ House considers these to be very important and that they should be retained rather than reversed when they head to the other place.

Any Commons reversal of Amendment 48 will be seen as a show of intention by the Conservative Party on environmental legislation. Again, it would not be wise, given the very good reassurance we have had from the noble Lords, Lord Benyon and Lord Callanan, on retaining that legislation. Pushing out Amendment 48 would be moving things in the opposite direction.

Overall, the work of this House has achieved a major change and a U-turn. As I said before, it has achieved a reverse in the polarity of this Bill, and noble Lords should be very proud of that. It has been a fraught debate at times. I owe a mea culpa to the noble Baroness, Lady Fox. In the hubbub I misrepresented her use of the term “blob”, and I am happy to put the record straight—so apologies there. During that debate there was also a to and fro, which was very important. The Minister is right to say that that is the role of this House.

I thank the Ministers—the noble Baronesses, Lady Bloomfield and Lady Neville-Rolfe, and the noble Lords, Lord Benyon and Lord Bellamy—for their hard work in trying to bring us along; they have not often or always succeeded, of course. The Bill team, when we have met, have always been very helpful and courteous; they are a credit to their service. I hope that, for those of the team who want to visit the Cheshire salt mines, I have in some way helped them head that direction.

His Majesty’s Opposition have been a pleasure to work with: I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and of course the team in their Whips’ Office. Many Cross-Benchers and other noble Lords across the House have participated fully. It would be difficult to mention them all, but for his virtuoso display during Report, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, deserves the full gratitude of your Lordships’ House.

Quite a few Liberal Democrats have participated in the Bill, not least those who were mobilised over the weekend to try to review 600 laws and work out what they did. I am not going to name them all, but I thank them for their support. I will name my noble friend Lady Ludford, who unfortunately cannot be here; she has been able company for me on the Front Bench. Finally, I thank Elizabeth Plummer in our Whips’ Office, whose grasp of this Bill has been beyond compare.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I was surprised when I saw this amendment. I have now spent 13 years in opposition in this and the other place, tabling such amendments at just about every opportunity. When you know that the Government are not going to do what you want them to do, one of the things left to you is to ask the Government to report annually or six-monthly to both Houses on whatever the issue might be. I have done this on everything from women’s justice to food standards to access to medicines. It is an in your back pocket kind of amendment—the sort that Ministers usually bat away quite easily. They talk about the cost and how much Civil Service time would be taken up in preparation. They do not want to use up valuable parliamentary time to debate these things, nor to distract Ministers with these sorts of fripperies.

On this occasion, it seems that the Government have decided that they can afford the time, money and resources to compile this list—to keep the argument alive for some people within the Conservative Party. What has happened to the noble Lords, Lord Frost and Lord Jackson? The tigers of Brexit are being bought off by an annual report to both Houses of Parliament. This is the sort of thing that the Opposition would have settled for at any point. There they are, taking this at what is meant to be the climax of their Brexit mission. I am quite disappointed that this is all the noble Lords have sought to achieve at the end of all this. They must be quite disappointed, although at least they get to have their report each year, to raise things and to ask why this or that regulation has not yet been dealt with. This is not going to be a red-letter day in my diary but, if it keeps the flame burning for others, then so be it.

I have to ask the Minister the same questions that he would ask me if the roles were reversed. Who will be compiling this list of regulations? How much time will they be spending on it? What is the cost? Will there be an opportunity to debate this report in Parliament each year? What format will this take, or will it go to a Select Committee? I wonder about the Government’s priorities. They find time to undertake this task when mortgages are soaring, inflation is still high, people are dying waiting for treatment, unable to see their GP and are pulling their own teeth out. This is what is going on in the country and yet the Government make this a priority.

I understand that the Government intend to accept this amendment, despite everything they have managed to do. They have completely rewritten their Bill. They have shown a little bit of backbone in doing that. I give credit where it is due. Now, at the 11th hour, they think that this is going to get them over the final hurdle. I am disappointed in the Minister for falling at the final fence. I am particularly disappointed in the noble Lords, Lord Frost and Lord Jackson, for settling quite so easily. There we are. I do not think we will bother to oppose the Government on this. Given everything else that has been going on, it does not seem worth the time of the Chamber to do so. This was quite a surprising, last-minute event in the process of this Bill.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, for what must be the most cynical speech I have heard on this Bill so far. We have seen just how committed the Opposition are to any kind of serious reform. They were perfectly to accept all this legislation which was imposed by the European Union through the various processes—before the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, corrects me. Now Labour is not interested in any kind of reform of it. It is perfectly happy to live with it. It shows the true colours of the Opposition.

Nevertheless, I am of course pleased to say that the Government have already reformed or revoked more than 1,000 pieces of retained EU law. But I agree with the contributions of my noble friends Lady Noakes, Lord Jackson, Lady Lawlor, Lord Frost and Lord Shinkwin—but this should not be the limit of our ambition. The answer to the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, is that the retained EU law is already listed in the famous schedule, and, if she accesses this internet thingy, she can get a list of all the remaining retained EU law. Departments will continue to review all the retained EU law that has not already been revoked, reformed or planned for revocation this year, to identify further opportunities for reform. We want to do this because we want to reduce the burdens on business, generate more jobs and unlock the potential for economic growth. Again, we can see where the Opposition’s true priorities are in that agenda.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

52: Clause 20, page 22, line 9, leave out “Minister of the Crown” and insert “relevant national authority”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment extends the consequential power in clause 20 to devolved authorities.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

54: Clause 21, page 22, line 14, leave out “the preceding provisions of”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment is consequential on the Minister’s amendment at page 24, line 14 to leave out “Minister of the Crown” and insert “relevant national authority”.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

57: Clause 23, page 24, line 12, leave out from “regulations” to the end of line 13 and insert “appoint.”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment is consequential on the Minister’s amendment at page 24, line 14 to leave out “Minister of the Crown” and insert “relevant national authority”.

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Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

64: Before Schedule 1, insert the following new Schedule—

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This amendment inserts a new Schedule listing the legislation to be revoked by Clause 1 at the end of 2023.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, Amendment 64 introduces a new schedule to the Bill that will serve as the revocation schedule. The amendment, in effect, introduces the pieces of legislation due to be revoked by the Bill, as trailed in the amendments in my name, which we discussed on Report on Monday. There are 587 pieces of legislation on the revocation schedule. Each instrument has been included following a thorough review by officials and Ministers. For clarity, it is split into two parts, the first covering EU-derived subordinate legislation and the second encompassing retained direct EU legislation.

I will now speak to a few of the specific entries in which noble Lords have expressed some interest. Amendment 64A would remove Regulations 9 and 10 of the National Emission Ceilings Regulations 2018 (S.I. 2018/129), which are no longer in force. Similarly, Amendment 64B would remove the Commission Implementing Decision (EU) 2018/1522, which is no longer in force, from the revocation schedule, thereby preserving it in domestic law.

The relevant regulations and implementing decision relate to the preparation of a national air pollution control plan, which was required by the national emission ceilings directive. As such, these two pieces of legislation are intertwined, and therefore I will speak to them together.

The NAPCP is a common format required of all EU member states to set out the policies and measures being considered to meet the national emission ceilings targets. The current format of the NAPCP is long, complicated, resource intensive and duplicative. Removal of the regulations relating to the NAPCP will allow us to move away from the overly burdensome system that we inherited from the EU. A large majority of the information in the NAPCP is reflected in individual national strategies and more accessible documents, including the Environmental Improvement Plan for England. Removing the NAPCP would therefore remove this duplication in the public domain, streamline communications on the air pollution policy with existing national strategies and better focus on what will actually help to clean up our air.

As we are appealing only Regulations 9 and 10 of the National Emission Ceilings Regulations, the rest of these provisions will remain in force, including the national emission reduction targets, which are set for five key pollutants, and the requirements to publish UK-wide emissions inventories and projections. With that explanation, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, will not move her amendments.

Amendment 64ZA would remove the Water Resources (Environmental Impact Assessment) (England and Wales) Regulations 2003, which are no longer in force, from the revocation schedule. These regulations were intended to complete the implementation of the environmental impact assessment directive for certain agricultural water resources projects. The regulations impose procedural environmental impact assessment requirements on water resources management projects for agriculture, including agricultural irrigation projects and water abstraction projects that are not accepted under Section 27 of the Water Resources Act 1991 and that are not subject to environmental impact assessment under other regulations.

When these regulations were made in 2003, it was considered that there might be a potential gap in our environmental assessment of agricultural water management projects. This was because a project might well proceed and not be linked to land use, the planning processes or the need for environmental assessment. Moreover, it might not be linked to the need for environmental assessment linked to the requirement to obtain water abstraction or impounding licence from the Environment Agency in accordance with the Water Resources Act 1991. In fact, this gap in regulation was never realised in practice and was filled when we removed water abstraction licence exemptions from all forms of irrigation from 1 January 2018 by commencing provisions in the Water Act 2003. Accordingly, therefore, Defra officials do not consider that there are any other types of agricultural water management projects for which an environmental assessment is required that are not already covered by abstraction and impounding licences or other EIA regulation and would be a relevant project under regulations. Therefore, these regulations are no longer required, which is why they are proposed for revocation. In addition, we understand that no environmental impact assessments have been made under the regulations since 2003. Therefore, I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, will not move her amendment.

Amendment 64ZB would remove the Foodstuffs Suitable for People Intolerant to Gluten (England) Regulations 2010, which are no longer in force, from the revocation schedule. This has been raised a number of times by the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, who has been in contact with the FSA on this issue. We have also been working closely with the FSA, which has assured us that it has carefully examined the eight pieces of legislation that it has put on the schedule, and that removing them will not impact on the safety or standards of UK food. The regulations referenced in Amendment 64ZB provided for the execution and enforcement in England of Commission regulation (EC) 41/2009 concerning the composition and labelling of foodstuffs suitable for people intolerant to gluten, in particular as regards the use of the terms “very low gluten” or “gluten-free”. However, the Commission decision was repealed by the EU in 2016 and replaced by EU regulation 828/2014. As such, the regulations that are proposed to be revoked via the schedule are, in fact, legally inoperable. With that information, I hope that the noble Baroness will not move her amendment, as it would be a retrograde step to keep on the statute book laws that are, in fact, legally inoperable.

Amendment 64ZA (to Amendment 64)

Moved by

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There has been a collective sigh of relief from charities, businesses, environmental organisations and food producers, following the months of pointless uncertainty caused by this Bill. As the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, said, there has not been the consultation or engagement on important issues which would give us the confidence to wave this schedule through. It cannot be right that noble Lords are asked to agree a list in a matter of days. I commend the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell, Lady Brinton and Lady Hayman, for spotting regulations that need further consideration. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Foster of Oxton, and to those who agree with her, that is not the job of civil servants to have done this work and to have decided which regulations should stay and which laws should be our laws. This is the job of Ministers, of Members of this and the other place. This is what Parliament is for. I look forward to everyone who believes in this principle on these Benches and on the Benches opposite joining us in the Content Lobby after this debate in voting for Amendment 76 in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the House for yet another fascinating debate, only a small part of which had anything to do with the amendments we were discussing.

I will make an observation before we get into debating the amendments. I have had the privilege of being in government since 2017—for six years in three different departments. I have worked with some excellent officials, who have provided me with nothing but unstinting support. As an example, we tabled this schedule late last week—in response, I might say, to concerns expressed in this House, in an attempt by me, as the Minister, and the Government to allay the concerns that many in this House had expressed about legislation being repealed by accident. That was never our intention. It would never have happened. These regulations would have been revoked anyway but we thought it would be helpful and for the benefit of the House to set them out.

A number of Members then asked for further details about the individual regulations. Officials across government, in the Bill team and elsewhere, worked tirelessly all weekend to get the explainer to this schedule done so as to answer the concerns of Members. They worked very hard and are a credit to the Civil Service. Let me be clear, the responsibility lies with Ministers. Civil servants produced the advice, but I approved the revocation schedule for my department, DESNZ—the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. Other Ministers approved it in their departments. Responsibility is clearly at a political level, and I will have nothing said against the Civil Service. Certainly, the Bill team worked incredibly hard all weekend, as they have done throughout the production of this Bill.

I turn to the amendments under discussion. As I said, we published the explainer to give an extensive line-by-line explanation that provides a clear justification, for the benefit of Members, for each entry on that schedule. I outlined the rationale for including the regulations flagged up by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, in my opening speech. I hope that she does not want me to repeat those points on the national air pollution control plan and the national emissions ceiling directive, which are no longer in force. These depend on one another. The current format of the NAPCP is long, complicated, resource-intensive and duplicative. Removal of these particular regulations will allow us to move away from the overly burdensome system that we inherited.

Similarly, in my opener, I explained why Amendment 64ZA, from the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, is also duplicative, given other active environmental impact assessment regulations. No environmental impact assessment regulations have been made under those particular regulations since 2003. It is no longer necessary to have this on our statute book.

On Amendment 64ZB, I spoke to the specifics of the food-labelling regulations referenced, but I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, that the laws to be revoked within the FSA’s remit have generally been superseded by new legislation and no longer need to remain on the statute book. Even the EU has revoked the regulations. Some have already had their operative provisions revoked, and others exist to amend or enforce legislation that has itself already been revoked.

The noble Baroness also raised enforcement. We provided additional details to her by email, but, as she knows, Commission Implementing Regulation (EU) 828/2014 laid down harmonised requirements for the provision of information to consumers on the absence or reduced presence of gluten in food, by setting out the conditions under which foods may be labelled “gluten-free” or “very low gluten”. That particular regulation remains in force and will be preserved as part of the retained EU law process. Sufficient powers are already in place under general food law to enforce the definitions. The chair of the Food Standards Agency wrote to us last week to confirm this position and to reinforce that removing them will help to make the body of law on food safety and standards clearer, while being entirely consistent with the principles agreed by the FSA board.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

I am grateful for the Minister’s response. I forwarded to him and his officials the response that I received from both the FSA and Coeliac UK, which said that this was a temporary arrangement, until 828/2014 could be introduced as a regulation under UK legislation; in other words, it is still needed. So I repeat my question: the Government consulted in 2016, and it is now seven years on, so when will that regulation be shown to the House?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will pass the noble Baroness’s comments on to Defra, which will write to her again, but she has already received replies to her concerns in emails and she has spoken to Bill team officials about this. As I said, the FSA has said that it is entirely happy that this regulation should be revoked.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)]

I wonder whether I can help the Minister. I support what he said today, and I congratulate him on how he started and what he said about the Civil Service. But I wonder whether he might want to think, before Third Reading, about the addition of an emergency brake. I share the worries of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope: supposing it turns out that something is needed and that, before the deadline—before they disappear—a real case is established, could the Government not give themselves the power, by statutory instrument, to leave a particular regulation off the schedule, or to amend the schedule by statutory instrument before the deadline, simply to remove a regulation that it turns out is there in error? I do not ask for an instant reaction, but perhaps the Minister might like to think about this before Third Reading.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are on Report. We do not need to wait until the next stage; I can tell the noble Lord now that there is a power in the amendments to allow exactly that. He does not need to have any further concerns about it.

In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, I say that the UK remains committed to international agreements on air pollution, to which we are an independent signatory. We set new, legally binding targets under the Environment Act and the environmental improvement plan to halt and to reverse nature’s decline. The stretching targets mean that any reform to retained EU law must deliver positive environmental outcomes, and nothing in this schedule alters those commitments. I hope that reassures the noble Baroness.

In response to the noble Lord, Lord Fox, and his famous salt mine example, I am sorry to tell him that he is wrong. The National Archives found its pieces of retained EU law in its EU legislation database, which is now online. The noble Lord might want to consult the internet next time, rather than crawling down his salt mine. One of my officials said that she would have loved to have gone down a salt mine—it would have been a very interesting experience—but she did not need to.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

I think the Minister should check that.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I can absolutely assure him: she would have been delighted to go down a salt mine. I will not name her, but she messaged me to say that she was very keen to do so. Perhaps the noble Lord would want to arrange it for her.

The noble Lord also mentioned several regulations which are good examples of EU-inherited provisions that we may no longer need. He may not realise it, but some regulations perform multiple functions—we want to revoke some and to keep or reform others. To update and improve the regulations, we of course need to keep them for now, so that we can make those changes.

I had a feeling that the noble Lord might ask me about the famous reindeer regulation. Indeed, Regulation 1308/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council includes provisions on reindeer, which we want to revoke because, the last time I looked, there were not many in the United Kingdom for which we need to have responsibility—perhaps even the noble Lord could agree with that. But there are other aspects of the regulation that we want to keep; therefore, in due course, there will be a reform programme which will alter that regulation. Of course, the House will get to see that through a statutory instrument at the time. I have no doubt that the noble Lord will want to engage with the Defra Minister in a meaningful debate on how important it is for the Liberal Democrats to preserve the preservation of reindeer in Lapland.

Finally, I turn to the issue of interpretative effects. My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked again for clarity on the Government’s intention. I assure her that the Government’s intentions have not changed in this regard. As she will be aware, the House agreed to Amendment 15 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, on Monday, which seeks to replace the sunset of Section 4 of the EU withdrawal Act at the end of each year with a requirement for the Secretary of State to make a statement on the Section 4 rights and obligations which will be sunsetted at the end of this year. The House can be assured that the Government will address that.

Clauses 5 and 6, which relate to the ending of the principle of supremacy, including the principle of consistent interpretation or indirect effect and ending the application of general principles of EU law, will stand part of the Bill, as agreed by the House.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Before the noble Lord sits down, I remind him that I asked a number of questions about areas other than air pollution—for example, on flooding. I wonder if the Minister could look through Hansard and write to me with a response to those questions before we reach Third Reading.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will certainly look again at the noble Baroness’s questions.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his response and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, for her support. I thank all noble Lords who took part in this very lively debate, particularly the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, whose concerns I share completely.

In the time available, it has been impossible for most of us to go into detail on the schedule to the extent that my noble friend Lady Brinton did, and I commend her for her efforts in that respect. The Minister will have realised from the debate that there is concern across the House at the lack of opportunity to scrutinise these regulations. I do not share the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Foster of Oxton, that this is all the fault of the Civil Service.

The Civil Service is under pressure, and occasionally mistakes do occur, but the dire situation we are in now is not its fault: it is the fault of the way in which the Government have gone about this piece of legislation, and I admire the Minister for his acceptance of that responsibility. The number of Defra’s instruments in the Marshalled List before us is overwhelming. I thank my noble friend Lord Fox for his very stirring summing up, which I cannot hope to match. The Minister set out his case at the start of the debate, and it is regrettable that he is not prepared to move on these issues. In the interests of time, and in the face of that, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

65: Schedule 4, page 45, line 6, leave out “any of sections 1 to 20” and insert “this Act”
Member's explanatory statement
This amendment is consequential on the Minister’s amendments at page 24, line 14.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

70: Schedule 4, page 47, line 8, at end insert—
“(e) regulations under section 20 which amend, repeal or revoke primary legislation.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment makes procedural provision in light of the Minister’s amendment at page 22, line 9 which extends the consequential power in clause 20 to devolved authorities.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

77: Schedule 4, page 53, line 25, at end insert—
“Transitional, transitory or saving provision
19 This Part of this Schedule does not apply in relation to regulations under section 23(4).”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment is consequential on the Minister’s amendments at page 24, line 14.

Non-Domestic Alternative Fuel Payment Application Scheme Pass-through Requirement Regulations 2023

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Callanan]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 17 April be approved.

Relevant document: 37th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 16 May.

Motion agreed.

COP 28

Lord Callanan Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Boycott]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what preparations they have made for COP28 and which Minister has responsibility for representing the United Kingdom at the negotiations.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the right honourable Graham Stuart MP will be representing the United Kingdom as the Minister responsible for the UN and CCC negotiations at COP 28. Following the UK’s COP 26 presidency, we of course continue to work with countries around the world to ensure that commitments made in the Glasgow climate pact are turned into action. We want to support the agenda of the incoming UAE presidency and drive an ambitious outcome for COP 28 to keep 1.5 degrees within reach.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer, and of course we all welcome Minister Stuart, but the fact that he is not a Cabinet Member raises some alarms as to quite how seriously we are taking this incredibly important conference that is coming up later in the year. Can the Minister provide clarity on when the UK will formally respond to the global stocktake of progress towards our nationally determined contributions? They are due in June but the CCC has noted that we are behind on both adaptation and mitigation.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I disagree. Graham Stuart is a very senior Minister who is committed to this agenda, and he has already taken part in a number of the ministerial negotiations. There is a cross-government group of Ministers chaired by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster meeting to co-ordinate the Government’s response.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, are the Government aware of President Macron’s recent plea for a pause in EU environmental regulations in a push to reindustrialise France? Do the Government agree that we ought to consider that, especially in view of the fact that an increasing number of countries are profoundly disturbed about the cost of trying to limit global warming?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I had not seen President Macron’s intervention. Happily, what France and the EU do has nothing to do with us any more. They can have their own negotiations. We are just getting on with the job.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I agree with the noble Baroness that it is a great disappointment that we do not have a Secretary of State going to the Gulf for COP 28. Will the UK still be chairing the Powering Past Coal Alliance that it has led and chaired in the past? If so, will it therefore cancel its coal mine intentions in Cumbria, here in the UK?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am not going to get into the debate about Minister Stuart. He does an excellent job and is well respected across the international community for his work, building on the work that we did at COP 26. We are committed to the Powering Past Coal Alliance. I think the noble Lord is being slightly disingenuous; he knows that the coal mine in Cumbria is nothing to do with power generation.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

Do noble Lords share my concern that the Minister has just said that what France is doing does not concern him? Does he not understand that, if we are to deal with climate change, we all need to work together?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I think I said that what negotiations go on between France and the EU are not our concern any more because we are not a member of the EU. Of course we work collaboratively with many countries across the world, not just in the EU. This is a worldwide problem and we need to negotiate on a worldwide basis, which of course we do. Carbon emissions do not respect international borders.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Since 2008 developing countries’ debt has doubled, and many of the countries most at risk from catastrophic climate change are actually paying more in debt repayment than they are able to spend on climate adaptation. At COP 28, will the UK be talking with international finance institutions about issues such as debt swap, which could address this problem?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point, although it is slightly off the topic of the COP 28 agenda. We are incredibly proud of the massive contribution of £11.6 billion that this Government are making towards international climate finance, helping those very countries. The wider issue of debt relief is also important and will be taken forward by international development colleagues.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government have already set out some of their priorities for COP 28, one of which is to actively follow up on the phase-down of coal and the phase-out of all fossil fuels. The recent words of COP 28 president Sultan Al Jaber have been widely interpreted as meaning using carbon capture and storage to capture CO₂ emissions and not completely phase out fossil fuels. What consideration have the Government given to these remarks and what steps have been taken to address them?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes an important point, citing the chairman of COP. The reality is that there will still be a requirement for fossil fuels in the years to come. There will still be a requirement in the UK, which is why we have an ambitious programme —we are spending £20 billion on carbon capture usage and storage. That still enables emissions to take place but of course they will be captured and stored back underground.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Regardless of the status of whoever represents us at COP 28, will the Minister make sure that the Government understand and explain to the public that while we are getting on very well in decarbonising the electric power sector, that is only one-fifth of our total energy usage? Therefore, we are only still in the foothills of trying to climb the net-zero peak target, which requires massive expansion of both nuclear power—preferably small nuclear power—and wind power on a scale not yet contemplated and not yet being invested for.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend of course knows this subject very well from his time as Energy Minister and makes an important point. We already have invested massively in renewables. We have the biggest wind sector in Europe by far. We have the first, second and third-largest wind farms in Europe, so we are massively expanding our renewables sector. It makes sense because particularly wind power and solar power are cheap compared to fossil fuel generation, but renewables are intermittent, which is why we will also need our nuclear generation. He draws attention to the scale of the problem we face.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, I ask the Minister whether our Government are fully behind the COP 28 declaration to phase out fossil fuels, something that we tried to do at COP 27—not successfully. I assume the answer to that question is yes so, to help realise that aim, will the Government commit to the UK joining the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are committed to phasing out fossil fuels and I outlined in a previous answer the progress we are making. But it is a transition: we have a requirement for fossil fuels during that transition period and have had exchanges about that before. I do not know the details of the declaration that the noble Baroness refers to, but I will certainly have a look at it.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

My noble friend made reference to our co-operation with other countries. Do they include China and India, which continue to build coal-fired power stations and make the attainment of net zero pretty unlikely?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes an important point. We continue to liaise with and talk to those countries, as we do many others. The situation is complicated. While it is true that China continues to expand its coal-fired generation, it has also massively increased use of renewables. In fact, it has the largest offshore wind sector in the world now; it took over our lead on that.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, following the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Howell, I would be the first to recognise that the route to net zero is fraught with challenge and difficulty. But will the Government publish a considered integrated assessment of the optimum route forward for the UK and a detailed plan—which we do not have at the moment—of where we go over the next five to 10 years?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sorry to disagree, but we do have detailed plans on where we are going. We have laid them out in our building strategy and in our net-zero plan. Only just before the Recess we published our Powering Up Britain plan, outlining exactly the kind of details that the noble Lord referred to.

[Lord Razzall (LD)]

My Lords, do the Government have any view on the impact on COP 28 of the invitation for President Assad to attend?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I saw that the COP 28 presidency had invited Assad and all world leaders. It is a UN body, so of course we do not control who gets invited or who chairs it. Clearly, we deplore the invitation of such an appalling man to this event, but it is not something for which we are responsible.