Equipment Interference (Code of Practice) Order 2015

Lord Bates Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2015 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Bates]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Equipment Interference (Code of Practice) Order 2015.

Relevant documents: 14th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, 11th Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments (Special attention drawn to the instrument)

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the Committee I will also speak to the Regulation of Investigatory Powers (Interception of Communications: Code of Practice) Order 2015.

Members will know that on 4 November 2015 the Government published draft legislation relating to the security, intelligence and law enforcement agencies’ use of investigatory powers for pre-legislative scrutiny by a Joint Committee of Parliament. The intention is for the Bill to be introduced early in 2016 and enacted before the sunset provision in the Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Act 2014 takes effect on 31 December 2016. In the mean time, the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 and the codes of practice made under it provide the legal basis for the essential investigatory techniques necessary to acquire the communications of those who mean us harm. Today we debate two codes of practice made under the existing legislation: an update of the existing code of practice on the interception of communications and a new code on equipment interference.

Interception is a vital tool that helps law enforcement and intelligence agencies to prevent and detect serious or organised crime and protect national security. It is also among the most intrusive powers available to law enforcement and the security agencies. For that reason, it is subject to strict safeguards in the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 and the code made under it. Interception warrants are issued and renewed by the Secretary of State for a small number of agencies and for a strictly limited range of purposes. RIPA also provides for independent oversight by the Interception of Communications Commissioner and an impartial route of redress through the Investigatory Powers Tribunal.

The interception of communications code of practice first came into force in 2002 and needs updating. There is now far more that can be said about the safeguards that apply to security and law enforcement agencies’ exercise of interception powers and the revised version of the code includes that extra detail. On what is new in the code of practice, the safeguards described in these codes are not new in themselves. In respect of the interception code, the law enforcement and intelligence agencies have always had robust internal arrangements, overseen by the Interception of Communications Commissioner. The draft code provides more detail about those arrangements.

First, it provides additional information on the safeguards that exist for the interception and handling of external communications under Section 8(4) of RIPA—that is, the ability to undertake bulk interception. Secondly, it sets out further information on the protections afforded to legally privileged material and other confidential material. To give an example, the code requires the Secretary of State personally to consider the likelihood that privileged material will be intercepted when determining whether it is necessary and proportionate to grant a warrant. It also requires additional internal safeguards to be applied in cases where legally privileged material is intercepted, including that where such material is retained it must be reported to the independent Interception of Communications Commissioner. Thirdly, it includes minor changes to reflect developments in law and practice since the code first came into force in 2002. For example, it reflects regulations introduced in 2011 which amended RIPA to create the power for the interception commissioner to impose a fine for certain kinds of unlawful interception. Much of the new material on the safeguards that apply to the exercise of interception powers reflects information disclosed during legal proceedings in the Investigatory Powers Tribunal, and it is right that this information is included in codes of practice so that it easy for members of the public to access it.

The equipment interference code of practice is new. Equipment interference is a set of techniques used to obtain a variety of data from equipment. This includes traditional computers or computer-like devices such as tablets, smartphones, cables, wires and static storage devices. Equipment interference can be carried out either remotely or by physically interacting with equipment. It allows the security and intelligence agencies in particular to keep pace with terrorists and serious criminals, who increasingly use sophisticated techniques to communicate covertly and evade detection. Equipment interference has been instrumental in disrupting credible threats to life, including those against UK citizens. MI5 has relied on this capability in the overwhelming majority of high-priority investigations it has undertaken over the past 12 months.

The Security Service Act 1989 and the Intelligence Services Act 1994 provide the legislative basis for the security and intelligence agencies to interfere with computers and communications devices. Warrants may be issued by the Secretary of State only when he or she considers the activities to be authorised are necessary and proportionate. The use of the powers is subject to independent oversight by the Intelligence Services Commissioner. Prior to the draft code, which we are debating today, equipment interference powers have not had their own bespoke code of practice.

The code does not confer new powers, but simply makes public the robust internal safeguards that the intelligence agencies already apply. It brings greater transparency to the robust processes that the agencies adhere to when interfering with computer equipment to prevent terrorism, disrupt serious crime and identify and stop others who seek to harm us and our country. For the first time, this code of practice publicly sets out the stringent safeguards that the intelligence agencies apply to their use of equipment interference. This includes strict rules on how data acquired through equipment interference must be handled, how they must be securely and safely stored, and how they must be destroyed when it is no longer necessary or proportionate to hold them. The code also explains the consideration of necessity and proportionality that the Secretary of State must take before authorising any use of equipment interference. That ensures that this vital capability may be used only when the scope of the interference has been carefully considered and compared to the potential benefits of the operation. Furthermore, the code explains that equipment interference should not be considered a proportionate power if other less intrusive methods of acquiring the same data are possible.

Akin to the interception code of practice, this document also provides reassurance that the acquisition of legally privileged and confidential information is subject to even greater oversight and safeguards. The code sets out a series of tests that must be applied before any authorisation is granted and then the subsequent handling arrangements, should confidential material be acquired.

Finally, the code also provides information regarding the use of equipment interference targeted at equipment outside the British Isles. This section ensures that the public have a comprehensive guide to the use of equipment interference powers by the intelligence agencies and the range of safeguards and oversight that applies to such important activity.

The codes of practice contain no new powers; instead, they reflect the current safeguards applied by the relevant agencies. The purpose of the codes is to make more information publicly available about the stringent safeguards that the agencies apply in their use of investigatory powers. They ensure that the powers can be used only when it is necessary and proportionate and when it will help keep us safe from harm. I commend the orders to the House.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I must first say that I am not an expert in this area. Our expert on this matter is on the Joint scrutiny Committee, which is about to sit. That is why he is not here. For this to come up when the people considering the draft investigatory powers Bill are elsewhere and engaged in that business is rather an unfortunate clash of tabling.

We are very concerned about interception, but that is and has been a widely known and accepted practice over the years, although the nature of that interception has obviously changed as means of communication have changed. It tends to be specific and targeted at particular individuals who, as the Minister said, intend to cause us harm or who are involved in serious crime. The code of practice on interception, which, as the Minister said, is an updated code of practice rather than a completely new one, is not the major area of concern for us.

We are very concerned about the use of equipment interference and the fact that very little—if any—debate has taken place, in Parliament or outside, about the use of these powers. While the Minister points to legislation that the security services rely on to carry out equipment interference, explicitly setting out what that means was not part of the discussion when those pieces of legislation were presented to Parliament. While what interception of communications involves is reasonably straightforward, equipment interference potentially means gaining complete access to a computer, for example. Speaking for myself, my life is on my computer. Therefore, if there were intrusion through equipment interference on to my computer, practically everything about me would be learnt by the security services, including websites I had visited and passwords that would give access to, for example, online banking. It is a much more intrusive power for the police and the security services than interception.

Hacking into computers and mobile phones was made an offence in the Computer Misuse Act 1990. My understanding is that a clause introduced in the then Serious Crime Bill 2015 exempted the police and the security services from that provision. Does the Minister accept that engagement in equipment interference by the police and the security services between 1990 and 2015 must therefore have been illegal because it was an offence under the Computer Misuse Act 1990, the exemption not coming in until 2015?

As far as I can see, the equipment interference code of practice relates only to the security services. There is no mention of equipment interference being used by the police. Again, I am not an expert on this, but it would appear that the police have to rely on legislation that allows them to interfere with property. That was intended for planting bugs in homes or offices—that sort of thing—rather than interfering with computers. Will the Minister say what the code of practice is for police use of equipment interference, as opposed to that of the security services?

There is also serious concern about general warrants being issued for equipment interference, rather than for named individuals. Indeed, the Intelligence Services Commissioner’s latest report expressed concern that GCHQ was using thematic warrants for equipment interference. How many thematic warrants have been issued?

I have another question for the Minister: why are the Government bringing forward these orders now, when the primary legislation on which they are based is currently being completely reviewed? As he said, the Joint Committee on the Draft Investigatory Powers Bill is currently looking at the primary legislation, so why now?

Among other things, the Government have produced HM Government Transparency Report 2015: Disruptive and Investigatory Powers. I cannot find any reference in it to equipment interference. As the Government are being transparent about these things, can the Minister assist me with where we can learn how much equipment interference has been going on?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, the orders before us today are important. They are tools to obtain evidence of suspected wrongdoing. I can tell the noble Lord that the Opposition support both orders, although we have some concerns. There has to be a balance between the scope of the powers exercised by the state and the rights of individuals who are subject to the exercise of those powers.

The noble Lord will, I am sure, be aware of the concerns raised by the Bar Council in relation to legal privilege. It would be helpful if he could say something about the safeguards against interference with privileged communications and, in particular, how the equipment interference order could result in the acquisition of matters subject to legal privilege, as well as what steps are being taken to mitigate such a risk. What I am looking for today from the noble Lord, Lord Bates, is more reassurance that the balance has been properly fixed. Clearly, technology is moving very fast and I am supportive of the Government ensuring, on the one hand, that the powers are appropriate and up to date and, on the other, that the procedures are properly codified and people’s rights are respected. I also understand that the orders are likely to be in force for only a short time, as of course we will be having the new Bill, which has to be on the statute book by the end of next year.

It would be helpful if the noble Lord could explain to the Committee a bit more about the safeguards that are in place, particularly in relation to the interception of communications code. Can he also say a bit more about the equipment interference code? As he said, it confers no new powers but simply sets out those powers and the safeguards that are in place. The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, suggests that new powers are being conferred, so the comments of the two noble Lords contrast somewhat. Therefore, we need to be clear about whether there are new powers in this code. If the noble Lord says that there are not, can he set out for the Committee why he believes that he is correct and the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, is wrong in that respect? Having said that, the Opposition support the orders.

[Lord Bates]

First, scheduling business is a matter entirely in the inscrutable hands of the Whips’ Office and usual channels. The Home Office has no influence on that. I take it that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, was referring to the noble Lord, Lord Strasburger, who plays a very important role in the pre-legislative scrutiny of the investigatory powers Bill at present. Of course, we appreciate his expertise in this area. I am sure he will bring that fully to bear when the Bill comes before your Lordships’ House later. Let me try to deal with some of the points that the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, raised.

One was: why choose to do this now when we have legislation going through? I alluded to part of the reason in my opening speech, relating to current or recent cases that have gone through the Investigatory Powers Tribunal service. There is always a balance to be struck there. The legislation proposed is just that: it is proposed—it is not on the statute book. We need to make sure that the powers are in place appropriately and that the code is kept up to date for the purposes of activities that happen in the interim.

That is an important element as well, which I would convey through the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, back to the noble Lord, Lord Strasburger. Given the noble Lord’s strong interest in these areas, I assume he would welcome these codes of practice being kept up to date in the light of case law going through the tribunal and, in particular, in relation to equipment interference. Effectively, there are now 18 pages of guidance that were previously not in the public domain. Those can now be scrutinised and reviewed. They are there to be reviewed by the committee currently sitting, should it so wish. All the way through this process with investigatory powers legislation, we are trying to make sure, at the same time, that the security services have the tools they need to do their job and that we keep the public on our side in feeling that the powers exercised—which are intrusive in certain cases—are necessary and proportionate.

I pay tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Jones, on the Intelligence and Security Committee in the other place. He knows all too well about the work going on. In that context, he will be aware that the powers we are talking about are not notional or academic. Elements of investigatory powers are deployed in response to the majority of serious and organised crime, such as the seven terrorist acts over the past year prevented by the security services. I certainly join the noble Lord in paying tribute to the work those services do to keep us safe.

I shall deal with some of the other issues raised. I will come back to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that in a sense our argument is that there is nothing new here and, at the same time, we are introducing some new measures. I will be able to tell him what is new in this.

The noble Lord, Lord Paddick, asked if, before now, it was an offence under the Computer Misuse Act to interfere with equipment. The answer is no. The powers to undertake equipment interference are contained in the Intelligence Services Act 1994 and the Police Act 1997, so we do not believe that at any point the police or security services have operated outside their powers. The noble Lord asked about the number of thematic equipment interference warrants that have been requested. That information is not collected centrally at present. Of course, we also have as part of the investigatory powers a quite sophisticated system of commissioners who oversee these processes, to whom those who feel that their rights have been trespassed on wrongly can go to seek redress—either directly through the commissioner or through the tribunal. Of course, that happens.

Syrian Refugees: Settlement in the UK

Lord Bates Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made to implement the Prime Minister’s pledge to settle 1,000 Syrian refugees by Christmas.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the charter flights which have arrived represent a significant upscaling of the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement programme. We are on track to meet the Prime Minister’s ambition of 1,000 arrivals from the region by Christmas.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware of the requests that have come from many places that we accommodate 3,000 unaccompanied children? Following the Prime Minister’s promise made last Wednesday—

“I am very happy to look at that issue again … to see whether Britain can do more to fulfil our moral responsibilities”—[Official Report, Commons, 2/12/15; col. 339.]

—what progress has been made towards Britain fulfilling its moral responsibilities?

[Lord Bates]

In terms of moral responsibilities, it should be recognised that we have committed to take 20,000 refugees by the end of the Parliament, which represents a significant upscaling of the scheme. The Prime Minister said last week that he would look at this issue again. He is doing so, but a key group that is concerned here is the UNHCR, which we are working closely with. It is concerned that if we offer special treatment to unaccompanied minors, that may encourage more of them to be trafficked or might take them away from the region where they would actually stand more chance of remaining with their families. In fact, that is being exploited by the people traffickers, who send the children first in the hope that they might be resettled, and that others may follow afterwards. The Prime Minister is looking at this again because on the face of it, there is a compelling humanitarian case. However, no decision has been taken yet.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

Will the Minister reflect on the fact that another of the Prime Minister’s pledges was to reduce net migration from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands? Can he update your Lordships’ House on the statements made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last week, in which he seemed to suggest that the Government are minded to take migration for the purposes of higher education out of the net migration count?

[Lord Bates]

I have two thoughts on that. First, of course, it is absolutely right that there needs to be downward pressure on the wrong sort of immigration into this country. We have got to get those numbers down, precisely so that we can also offer more generous support to the genuine refugees and asylum seekers. On the specific of students, whatever the change in the calculation of the numbers, it will make no change to the student policy. There is no cap on the number of students who can come here for genuine courses at genuine universities, and that will remain the case.

[Baroness Sharples (Con)]

How can we be sure that these people seeking refuge are indeed from Syria?

[Lord Bates]

Yes, my noble friend is absolutely right to point this out. That is one of the reasons why we want the investigations and checks to take place in the refugee camps in the region, under the auspices of the UNHCR, rather than encouraging people to make the perilous journey here and then try to establish whether their bona fides and credentials are as they say they are.

[The Lord Bishop of Bristol]

My Lords, I return to a question I previously hinted at, and in the light of the rather high-profile reportage of the plan of the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury to house refugees in a cottage in the grounds of Lambeth Palace. Given that we understand there is some necessary bureaucracy associated with the proper placement of refugees, have we got the balance right? It is not just a question about the Archbishop, but about the good will shown by a good many people, which seems to be turned back by unnecessary bureaucracy.

[Lord Bates]

We do not want that to happen, of course. We must remember that the priority consideration regarding the vulnerable persons scheme is that the people in question are vulnerable. First, we are talking about women and children who are at risk, along with people who have been subject to torture and those in need of acute medical care. They may not be the ideal people to take up the offers coming forward under the community-based sponsorship scheme. Like the right reverend Prelate, I read that report over the weekend. A meeting is going to take place on Thursday between Lambeth Palace and the Home Office to resolve that difference—I am sure it can be resolved—and to make sure that that very generous offer is accepted and taken up.

[Baroness Hamwee (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the recent thoughtful report from the Children’s Society, entitled Not Just a Temporary Fix, on the search for durable solutions for separated migrant children? One of its recommendations is that Home Office decision-makers should be trained in how to assess a separated child’s best interests, rather than simply referring to Section 55, the welfare duty, as if such a reference was enough.

[Lord Bates]

I read that report, which I think is good. We are looking at it and it raises a number of issues. Under the unaccompanied asylum-seeking children scheme—UASC—there is an additional level of guidance from the Department for Education, and the Minister for Children and Families, Edward Timpson, has lead responsibility for it. Also, we cannot get away from the fact that although the Home Office might have such responsibility under the Children Act 1989, local authorities have the statutory duty of care for any children under their care, whether or not they are asylum seekers.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell us exactly why progress has been so slow in getting these refugees to the UK, and what work has been done with the UNHCR in organising migration with the refugee community to get the refugees here?

[Lord Bates]

It is a slow process because we are undertaking the vetting and prioritising procedure in the camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey with the UNHCR. The UNHCR undertakes its checks, as then does the Home Office. It is a lengthier process at that end, but the whole purpose of the vulnerable persons scheme is that, once they are given leave to remain or international protection, they come to this country and do not have to go through any such process. They have accommodation to go to, they have schools, hospitals and medical care, and benefits if they need them. Therefore, although it is taking slightly longer at that end, we hope that that will shorten the process when they actually arrive here.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Dubs]

My Lords, what advice, support and help are the Government giving to local authorities to ensure that they have a satisfactory settlement, so that people can be helped into move-on housing and that the local medical and education support services, for example, are there? Given that we have previous experience—for example, when the Bosnians came here—please let us not waste it.

[Lord Bates]

Exactly. Taking precisely from that experience is the reason why the Prime Minister appointed a Minister for the Syrian resettlement programme. Richard Harrington is based in the Home Office and is liaising with the DCLG, which is conveniently in the same building, to ensure that such joined-up work happens and people get the support they need when they arrive.

[Lord Swinfen]

My Lords, what is being done by the Government to help Kent and Dover, in particular, to deal with the large number of unaccompanied minors arriving in the country?

[Lord Bates]

That, of course, was one of the big pressures. There is now in place the Kent dispersal scheme, for which Richard Harrington is responsible: rather than people being concentrated in a given local authority area, they are redistributed nationally. So far, 55 local authorities have signed up to that scheme, through which they can receive unaccompanied asylum-seeking children.

[Baroness Walmsley]

My Lords, will the Minister note the activities of Siemens in Germany, which is offering—

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

While no one would underestimate the complexities, and indeed the pressures on the Minister and his colleagues, is it not important for the consistency of our position to remember constantly to emphasise the values we are trying to protect in our society, one of which is the Christian value of generosity and warmth towards people in situations such as this? Must we not keep that in mind and remember to consider, with all our preoccupations, what we are adding to the preoccupations and problems of Jordan and Lebanon?

[Lord Bates]

Part of that is the generosity of people directly making offers under the community resettlement scheme. But I am also very proud of the generous commitment the Government are undertaking on behalf of this country in providing £1.1 billion of aid to Syrian people in the region to allay their suffering there. That is the second largest figure in the world.

Kurdistan Workers’ Party

Lord Bates Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hylton]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will reclassify the Kurdistan Workers’ Party as a national resistance movement.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, the PKK, is a proscribed organisation. The Terrorism Act 2000 allows the Home Secretary to consider deproscription by written application. There are no provisions in legislation to classify a group as a resistance movement.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, when I tabled this Question I did not expect the Answer to be, “Yes, of course”. However, have the Government fully considered that the PKK long ago stopped killing civilians; that it has offered many ceasefires, particularly since 1999; that it is asking not for independence but for devolution; and that it has the support of non-violent civil society in the south-east and of many other minorities in Turkey? They all want a new constitution. Will the Government consider these points?

[Lord Bates]

Political aspirations are of course noble and those are the types of issues which should be addressed in the peace talks that we want the PKK to return to. But the fact is that the PKK has been responsible for 140 deaths of military police and civilians in Turkey just in recent months, and that is the reason it is proscribed as a terrorist organisation and why it will remain so.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, we understand the urgency of the Kurdish issue in Turkish politics, and of course now in both Syrian and Iraqi politics, but can the Government at the very least be active in saying to the AKP Government in Turkey that we welcome the peace negotiations between the PKK and the Government, but we think that the provision of better civil rights for the substantial Kurdish minority in Turkey is an important issue for the future, and that the treatment of the HDP over the past few months within Turkish domestic politics has been deeply unfortunate?

[Lord Bates]

A number of those points were raised at the EU/Turkey summit on Sunday which the Prime Minister attended. Of course there is an absolute need for those discussions to continue, but they must go through a diplomatic and political process; this is not to be decided by military violence.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, first, given that the Kurdistan Workers’ Party is also proscribed as a terrorist organisation by several states and organisations including, I believe, Germany, the EU and NATO, do the Government accept that any decision on this issue would have to be made in consultation with our closest allies, especially our European partners? Secondly, the Prime Minister referred yesterday to 70,000 Syrian opposition fighters on the ground who do not belong to extremist groups. Can the Minister say whether the claimed figure of 70,000 does or does not include the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, which is engaged in the war on the ground against the so-called Islamic State and which appears to have gained support from the Mayor of London when he said in the media last week that his sympathies were with the PKK?

[Lord Bates]

I think the Prime Minister said that there are 20,000 Kurdish fighters, who of course are Peshmerga and from the PYD, which of course is not a proscribed organisation. The noble Lord’s point about EU co-operation in these matters is absolutely central, although of course we will retain the power to decide these things at the national level. We have the cross-government Proscription Review and Recommendation Group, and the Home Secretary acts not only on its advice, but also on advice from other external organisations which can make their representations to her.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord has mentioned the peace process in Turkey, which is extremely important. I am sure that the Government, along with our European partners, are urging Turkey to carry on with that process. However, will they also urge Turkey to return to a ceasefire in order to create the conditions for a proper dialogue? Perhaps I may suggest that, because of our experience in Northern Ireland, we might have a lot to offer in terms of working with the Turks to find a resolution to this difficult question.

[Lord Bates]

Certainly our position is that we are very supportive of a resumption of the peace talks because that is the only way to reach a lasting solution. It is part of a wider package which we need to recognise in terms of Turkey’s aspirations to join the European Union and how that is related to its progress on issues such as human rights and freedom of the press. All these are bundled together and linked also, of course, to the ongoing problems with migration and the situation in Syria.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, were the very important issues of human rights, press freedom and restarting the peace talks with the PKK on the table during the recent talks between the EU and Turkey on the package that has been announced on the refugee issue? Surely these issues must have been central to any discussions between the EU and Turkey.

[Lord Bates]

I do not have a specific answer, but I can write to the noble Baroness with details from the communiqué that was produced after the summit. At the summit the EU announced the prospect of a €3 billion package, while the Prime Minister has announced a payment of £275 million to help Turkey secure its southern border in order to reduce the flow of migrants into the European Union. However, I will certainly send a copy of the communiqué to the noble Baroness.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, is the Minister actually suggesting that the PKK is not part of the coalition attacking Daesh?

[Lord Bates]

What I am saying is that the PKK is a proscribed organisation in terms of the global coalition against Daesh. It is not part of that coalition. There are Kurdish groups in the coalition, and I have mentioned the PYD and the Peshmerga in the Kurdish autonomous region of northern Iraq. The reason is that our main ally in the fight against Daesh in the efforts to stem the flow of migration is Turkey, so we need to maintain strong links with our key NATO ally, and indeed EU aspirant.

Channel Tunnel: Migrants

Lord Bates Excerpts

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking with the Government of France to deal with the organised groups assisting migrants seeking to use the Channel Tunnel to enter the United Kingdom.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to work closely with our French counterparts. The joint declaration signed on 20 August cements a comprehensive programme of work between our two countries.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Is he aware that rail freight services through the tunnel have been virtually decimated—I declare an interest as chairman of the Rail Freight Group—and that road freight is being equally badly hit because people are still climbing into lorries? There may be a fence round the terminals and there may be a few more guards, but dogs are not allowed to bite—I suppose that that would be against the Health and Safety at Work etc. Act if it applies to Calais. Surely more should be done to direct attention at the gangs that are organising these migrants into armies with chain-saws, blankets, mattresses and bolt-cutters to climb the fence. Could there not be more intelligence? Are the Government going to use some of the 1,900 new spies that the Minister announced in November—although they might need a bit more training—to help them?

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord is absolutely right: that is why the Prime Minister announced in July that the Organised Crime Task Force will concentrate specifically on immigration crime. At the Valletta summit in November he announced an expansion of the task force. Through new legislation in the Serious Crime Act, that work has already led to the disruption of 174 organised immigration crime groups. But we are very conscious that more needs to be done and are working very closely on that with our French counterparts.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a twin-track approach is needed? First, refugees and asylum seekers need to be offered safe and legal routes through humanitarian visas and, secondly, all EU states need to participate fully in European police co-operation, including through a strengthened Europol, which the UK is not opting in to. Does he not therefore have to acknowledge the truth, which is that the present Government are failing on both those tracks?

[Lord Bates]

No. On Friday there will be a Justice and Home Affairs Council meeting, which the Home Secretary will be at. At the emergency meeting on 20 November following the Paris attacks, a whole new raft of initiatives was set out on which we are going to co-operate. These include the Schengen information systems, which exchange information on people who represent a potential threat across Europe. The noble Baroness was absolutely right in her first point, which is why we set up the Syrian vulnerable persons programme. We have said that checks on the 20,000 additional refugees who will come in over the lifetime of this Parliament will take place in the camps so that they do not have to make dangerous journeys and can be verified by the UNHCR and by us.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that Bedfordshire, where I live, seems to be blessed with having more illegal immigrants disgorging at motorway service stations, allegedly because that is the first place where the lorries refuel? In those circumstances, why is it impossible to undertake a check on the ferries once they have left Calais en route to the United Kingdom and before people disembark at Dover?

[Lord Bates]

It is certainly an issue to which we have to find a solution. Part of that solution lies with the border force arrangements on both sides at the juxtaposed controls in Calais, and we are working very closely with our French counterparts on that. There is also a huge role for the hauliers to play—not necessarily the UK hauliers but some of the continental ones. They need to take the most basic security steps in relation to their vehicles to ensure that this does not happen. That is why we have introduced the accreditation scheme, together with civil penalties for people who fail to abide by it.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall the case that was raised in the House just two weeks ago about Rob Lawrie and his attempt to rescue a child from the aptly named “jungle camp” at Calais? Can he say whether it has been possible for the Government to have the meeting with Save the Children that they committed to during Question Time? Can he also tell the House how many people are in that camp today and how many of them are children?

[Lord Bates]

I know that specific case: it was a very difficult one and we have offered some consular support on that issue. Of course, when we are dealing with vulnerable children, it is absolutely critical that they are recorded, that their records are taken and that they are closely supervised. On the specific point about how many people are in that camp, which is a terrible facility, one of the things in the joint declaration was that we wanted to reduce the number from 6,000. The number is now about 4,500, and that is a tribute to the French, who have started relocating people from that camp into what are called respite settlements in places such as Picardy. On the specific matter of Save the Children, the noble Lord will be aware of the UNHCR’s reservations on that. That still remains our position, but we are very much open to meetings.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, according to a national newspaper report, a government Minister told the Home Affairs Select Committee in the other place last week that small airports and ports around the UK were a weak link because those coming to this country intent on acts of terrorism would chose to use them to enter the country rather than the bigger airports and ports where stricter measures are in place. Since the Minister went on to say that urgent work was under way to address this issue, are the Government really telling us that they have only just woken up to the fact that security at small airports and ports now needs to be as effective as security at larger airports and ports? If that was not the inference of what the Minister concerned said, what was that Minister trying to tell us?

[Lord Bates]

There is a certain displacement happening here. As the security at Coquelles gets stronger and tougher, and as we then provide greater security around the port of Calais and move along to Dunkirk, Le Havre and other places, there will be displacement. People are going to be forced into the smaller ports and airfields that have been mentioned. That was the reason why we said that there was an increased threat there that needs to be responded to. Part of that was announced by the Chancellor last week when he announced £9 million for additional aviation security just to tackle that problem.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb]

My Lords, thank you very much. Could the Minister tell us, for those people who are currently suffering in the “jungle camp” in Calais, what the Government are doing to enable them to get to Britain if they have every right to be here? I have asked this as a Written Question; I had a response but I did not get an answer.

[Lord Bates]

Under the Dublin regulations, they have to apply for asylum in the first safe country that they arrive in. If that is France, that is where they must apply for asylum. There are regulations under Dublin III, which the noble Baroness will be familiar with, that deal with family reunification. Where the individual applies for asylum in France but actually has strong family links in the UK, we will enter into discussions with our French counterparts to see how that arrangement can be resolved in a way that keeps the family together.

[Lord Tomlinson]

Would the Minister agree that it is about time that he changed the Answer he gave the House recently and revisited the role that identity cards can play in the fight against terrorists and illegal immigrants, and, by doing that, in the fight against the gangs that are organising these activities?

[Lord Bates]

The answer I gave to the House, which I acknowledge it did not fully accept—perhaps that was to do with the way I presented it—was that we had tried that before.

[Noble Lords]

Oh.

[Lord Bates]

Well, we did try it; investment was put in place for it. We are now saying that we believe that the best security is achieved through a stronger, intelligence-led approach to tackling serious and organised criminals who have dealings in immigration crime or terrorists seeking to do us harm. We believe that the solution should be intelligence led, which is why we have announced an additional £2 billion for the security services over the lifetime of this Parliament.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

In an earlier reply, my noble friend said that, over a period of time, the very good work done by the Government and the French had thwarted 174 organised attempts to use the Channel Tunnel. Can he tell your Lordships’ House how many organised attempts were not thwarted over the same period?

[Lord Bates]

I am not sure about that, but the specific answer that I gave was not so much about attempts at incursions into the tunnel as about the organised criminal groups that are at the heart of this evil trafficking which is happening across borders throughout Europe and particularly into our country. My answer was that the work of the Organised Crime Task Force that the Prime Minister had set up, which will receive funding over this Parliament, had led to the disruption of 174 organised criminal groups and gangs over that period.

Identity Cards

Lord Bates Excerpts

Thursday 26th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what further consideration they are giving to introducing national identity cards.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have no plans to reintroduce identity cards for British citizens.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sorry to hear that. Nearly all European countries now have national identity cards. Germany’s latest card, which is highly secure, includes a digital photo, an electronic data function and biometric data, which can include a fingerprint. In these difficult circumstances, when identity is at the heart of our problems, should not all the political parties now reconsider their positions on the introduction of national identity cards? If other European countries can have confidence in their ID card systems, why cannot we do the same? Times are changing—the world is very different.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Lord will be aware that we have had this debate before. The decision that was taken to abolish the national identity register and identity cards, which had been introduced by the previous Labour Government, was done on two grounds: first, on cost, because it cost £85 million to run and nearly £1 billion was required to maintain the register; and secondly, in terms of effectiveness, because the very people whose identity we might want to have would be the last people in the queue to comply with the requirement for the ID card. That is not to say that we are not doing anything about that; we are simply saying that we have a different approach. We have passports and driving licences—84% of the population have passports and over 60% have driving licences—and all people who come from outside the EEA to live in the UK for a period in excess of six months are required to have a biometric permit to do so.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

My Lords, with hindsight, would it not have been better to have corrected the faults in the Labour Party proposals and put them into operation so that now we would have a system which worked? Is it not odd that we are the only country in Europe that thinks that this system without identity cards is somehow superior? Should we not learn from others just occasionally?

[Lord Bates]

Of course we learn from others, and the reality is that we have a system of photographic ID—I have mentioned lots of types, such as biometric passports, but also general passports and driving licences, which we have in this country. At a time when our principal concern is national security, we have said that we choose to spend the investment that would be required to put in place a system of ID on better equipping our security forces and better securing our borders to ensure that we can keep people secure and safe.

[Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the Home Secretary who introduced ID cards. I say to the Minister, and through him to noble colleagues on the Cross Benches and the Liberal Benches, that I have always been aware and am still aware of the balance between privacy and security for the nation. However, I hope in the present circumstances, which have changed considerably over the last decade—not only as regards immigration and the introduction of digital services for individuals and citizens but particularly in regard to the national security and the protection of all of our citizens in counterterrorism and the assurance that we can give that to them—that the Government will reconsider their position on this before it is too late. I welcome the fact that the Government are not averse to U-turns, including very big ones, and I hope that they will reconsider on this one; no one will score any political points, because it is now a matter of national security.

[Lord Bates]

I hear the point the noble Lord makes, which of course I would accept if it was a question of effectiveness, but our view is that it was not going to be effective, because the very people you would want to catch would be the people who would not comply. That is the reason why spending the money on better security and surveillance, better use of intelligence, the investments in national security we have announced, the improvement to the funding of the police and cybersecurity is the right way to go at the present time.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement that there will be no rethink of identity cards. Knee-jerk reactions often lead to massive expense and total inefficiency. We remember the personal interviews when people wanted to get passports—I do not know whether the Home Secretary who introduced this is in the Chamber today. That proved to be totally wrong. Will the Minister confirm that in the first four years it was introduced 1.5 million interviews took place, of which only 12 were rejected, and when it was established, that there were—

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

I will continue with my question. Can he confirm that there were 68 offices in the UK, of which 30 have been closed over the last few years? Can the Minister please tell us what the situation is with this personal interview for passports?

[Lord Bates]

A personal interview is required for all adults applying for a passport for the first time. It is an important deterrent element as well. One of the factors that is not recognised is that, in the numbers that the noble Lord quoted, there are more than 1,000 people each year who do not turn up for an interview when they are required to do so to support their passport application.

[Noble Lords]

My Lords—

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I thank the Leader of the House. I do not see why we should not try identity cards. Those of us who drive have to carry a driving licence around with us, otherwise there are always difficulties with the police if you get stopped. I really do not know why we should not see whether it actually works. It works in other countries and why, as the noble Lord, Lord Deben, said, should we not learn from other countries and try it here?

[Lord Bates]

I hear what the noble and learned Baroness says, but the reality is that we did try this. We had a live test of this and our conclusion was that it did not work; it did not tackle the problems that we wanted it to tackle, it was very expensive and there was no compliance from the very people that we wanted to be protected from.

Violence Against Women

Lord Bates Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, protecting women and girls from violence and supporting victims remain key priorities for this Government. We welcome all initiatives to tackle violence against women and girls.

[Baroness Gale (Lab)]

I thank the Minister very much for his response, although I am a little disappointed in what he said. Does he agree that anything that can be done to reduce the high number of women suffering from domestic abuse—1.4 million in 2014—must be done? Will he agree to meet the Minister in Wales to discuss the ground-breaking law in Wales so that women in England can benefit in the same way as women in Wales do now from that new law, which would add to all our existing law?

[Lord Bates]

Yes. In fact, I probably recommended the meeting and I am very happy to sit in on it. We have appointed, for the first time, a Minister for Preventing Abuse and Exploitation, Karen Bradley, in the Home Office. She takes a lead in this area, and I am sure that discussions between those Ministers will be very important. It is very important that we all work together. The key element of the Act passed by the Welsh Assembly was to provide for a strategy. We have that in England and Wales in the cross-government strategy, but we can all learn from each other. It is a very important area and we need to do more.

[Lord Wasserman (Con)]

Experience in Spain, Portugal and elsewhere has shown clearly that electronic monitoring or tagging in the context of domestic violence is an effective way of keeping victims of domestic violence alive and safe. As my noble friend will know, several police forces in this country—Hertfordshire, Northumbria and Cheshire—have purchased electronic monitoring equipment but they cannot use it unless the offender agrees. When will the Government amend the present law relating to the use of that technology so that tags can be fitted to domestic violence offenders with the authority of the courts, even if offenders are not minded to wear them?

[Lord Bates]

My noble friend makes a very good point. We have introduced domestic violence protection orders—2,500 have been issued—which have had a positive effect in enabling people to have protection. Often, the victim of domestic violence is the one who is forced to flee their home, whereas it should be the perpetrator who is excluded from the home. That use of technology would seem very worth while. I am certainly happy to follow that up with my noble friend afterwards.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the Welsh commissioner referred to in the noble Baroness’s Question is a part-time appointment for what is very much a full-time problem. FGM is one aspect of that. The coalition Government undertook some commendable work, led by my noble friend Lady Featherstone, to raise public awareness of FGM. At that time, we understood the importance of NHS staff recognising and reporting cases of FGM. NHS staff in England have a duty to do so, but there was no such duty in Wales at that time. Is it still the case that NHS staff in Wales do not have to report cases of FGM?

[Lord Bates]

I am not sure about the answer, because it is a devolved matter for the Welsh Assembly to determine. It was certainly introduced here. Another very positive development which we introduced was FGM protection orders to give children at risk court protection to prevent them being moved out of the country to where those barbaric practices can be carried out.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords—

[Baroness Whitaker]

My Lords, will the Minister join me in congratulating the Government of Gambia on banning female genital mutilation, as announced in a newspaper today?

[Lord Bates]

I am very happy to do that.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, what resources are being put into educating boys and men to make them understand that sexual violence and domestic abuse are neither normal nor acceptable?

[Lord Bates]

The noble Baroness is right, and that is why we have a ground-breaking, leading campaign called This is Abuse. The campaign plays a key part in that, as well as ensuring that there is appropriate sex and relationships education in schools. People need to understand the word “consent” and the meaning of the word “abuse”, and to live by those terms.

[Baroness Fookes]

Does the Minister agree that, where different authorities and persons hold evidence, they should actually talk to one another?

[Lord Bates]

That is absolutely right. It is very important that the cross-ministerial group, chaired by the Home Secretary, ensures that there is a joined-up response on these issues. That is also one of the purposes of the domestic violence disclosure scheme—the so-called Clare’s law—which allows people to find out whether a potential partner, whom they might be bringing into their home, has a violent or abusive past.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that, in order to deal with domestic violence within Islamic Muslim communities, it is absolutely necessary to have an adviser who understands the Koran, can understand the interpretation and can deal with the misguided view held by particular members of that community that they are entitled to be violent towards their women? It is essential to have someone who knows what they are talking about.

[Lord Bates]

That is very true. In answer to a question yesterday on stalking, I spoke about the charity which is working with us on that. Furthermore, I had the occasion to visit a team working in the Foreign Office—the Forced Marriage Unit—which is offering advice to those in fear of forced marriage. It is doing excellent work in this area and is very sensitive to the communities to which it is speaking.

[Baroness Massey of Darwen (Lab)]

The End Violence Against Women Coalition suggests that children could be encouraged to protest and cope with abuse from peers, adults or the media. Does the Minister agree that schools could play a part in this by developing and delivering programmes that encourage children to develop resilience, self-confidence and knowledge about this issue? Why do the Government not make such programmes statutory in schools?

[Lord Bates]

We have been very clear that we expect sex and relationships education to be taught in all schools. In fact, it is inspected by Ofsted as such. We help the PHSE Association to develop materials for use in the classroom in this area. Of course, there is more that can be done, but it is particularly important that people in schools, who might be the first to hear of instances of domestic violence, have the confidence to know what it is and to report it.

Domestic Abuse

Lord Bates Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Prosser]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they will take to reduce the number of women killed by partners, ex-partners or family members and the incidence of domestic abuse.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to tackling domestic abuse and have placed domestic homicide reviews on a statutory footing to ensure that local areas learn lessons from each and every one of them.

[Baroness Prosser (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, brief though it was—it took me slightly by surprise. For those in the Chamber who are not aware, today is the international day against violence towards women, hence the importance of the Questions on the Order Paper today. Since 28 October, when I put this Question down, eight more women will have lost their lives at the hands of a violent partner or ex-partner. Can the Minister tell the House, with some clarity and precision, just what the Government are doing to prevent this carnage and what specific training programmes police forces are required to undertake to recognise cries for help and spot dangerous situations? What measures are in place to ensure co-ordination across government departments?

[Lord Bates]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right that, on this International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and girls, we should focus on this issue because every one of those deaths was in some way preventable. We have often found in these cases that incidents will have been happening over a consistent period of time, until the point of the fatal action, and that if there had been earlier interventions something could have been done. That is the reason for changing the police training on this. The Crown Prosecution Service has also changed its procedures. As a result, we are seeing domestic violence convictions at a record level. Referrals from police and prosecutions are also at a record level. Those results are all heading in the right direction but there is an awful lot more still to be done.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes (Con)]

Is the Minister aware that Britain was the first country to bring this into public notice, at the United Nations conference for women, and that because of this, other, smaller countries which had had terrible violence against women for many years were no longer ashamed for it to be known about? There is still a lot to be done but we have made considerable progress over those 20 or more years.

[Lord Bates]

That is a very important point because this is a UN international day, which is in its 17th year. We also remember the work done through DfID and the Girl Summit, which was hosted in this country last year, to get to grips with this issue in other countries as well. But we also have a great deal more to do in our own country to ensure that we have the response absolutely right.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, what is being done to pick up on early warning signs, given that the women who are losing their lives or suffering domestic violence are often harassed and stalked by partners and ex-partners over a period of time? Evidence has emerged that in some of these cases, when women have rung up the call centres, these signs have not always been picked up on or followed through appropriately. What is being done to ensure consistency and that call centre staff are trained appropriately to take these calls very seriously?

[Lord Bates]

The National Domestic Violence Helpline is run by two organisations, Women’s Aid and Refuge. As the noble Baroness will be aware, both those organisations have been given additional funds as a result of the Chancellor’s Statement today—£1 million each. A principal focus of the work will be looking at early intervention. We want to learn the lessons from that so that we can refresh the Government’s strategy for violence against women and girls, which is due to take place in the next few months.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I remind your Lordships of my declaration of interests, because I work with two charities that are involved, among other things, with victims of domestic violence. I have worked for over 40 years on this issue and even I am shocked at the number of women I meet now who are homeless, whose lives have been riven with addiction and who are on the edge of the criminal justice system, nearly all of whom have been victims of sexual, physical or other abuse. Will the Government have another look and make sure that right across the board—not just in the Home Office but in the Department of Health, the Ministry of Justice and other departments —they recognise the importance of this? Many of these women have never talked to anyone but their lives have been ruined.

[Lord Bates]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right, and I pay tribute to her work over many years in this area. She will recognise that the number of places in refuges, which is the subject of ring-fenced funding of £40 million—there through this Government—has increased so that there are now 3,472 places available. The number of rape advice centres—also funded by the Ministry of Justice—has also increased by 15. But again, it is a collective effort to make sure that we all tackle this most abhorrent of crimes.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware, as I have said this to him before, that where there is domestic abuse of women it is often also children who suffer. At this time when we are looking at the spending review and are aware of the pressure on local authorities, would he not acknowledge that much of the work in these families was carried out by social workers in local authorities? Will he not only commend the work that they do on behalf of society but hope to protect their budgets and the numbers in post?

[Lord Bates]

I will certainly do that. The noble Baroness will be as encouraged as I am to hear from the Chancellor that there will be new facilities in the social care budget to provide additional funding to that important area. The Government have also announced that we will give additional funding to an organisation called Behind Closed Doors, which works particularly with children to help and support them in those difficult times.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government have not ratified a pan-European convention on women’s and girls’ rights—the Istanbul convention—after signing up to it in 2011. That convention seeks to protect women from sexual violence and gives them the formal right to counselling after suffering domestic violence or abuse. Why have the Government not ratified the Istanbul convention and when do they intend to do so?

[Lord Bates]

We are implementing most aspects of the Istanbul convention. One area—Article 44, I think, which deals with extraterritorial jurisdiction when dealing with forced marriage—requires primary legislation and is the only part that we have not introduced. Apart from that, this Government have been working on this through things such as the Girl Summit. I am not quite sure where my right honourable friend William Hague is in the metamorphosis from that place to this place.

[Noble Lords]

Tomorrow.

[Lord Bates]

Ah, my noble friend Lord Hague is due here tomorrow. He has done a tremendous amount of work in this area and that is being continued by my right honourable and noble friend Lady Anelay as well.

Domestic Violence

Lord Bates Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Nye (Lab)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing on the Order Paper in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Royall of Blaisdon.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, the latest figures show that 495 convictions were obtained under the new stalking laws in 2014. Legislative powers in this important area are kept under constant review.

[Baroness Nye]

I thank the Minister for that information. It is clear, however, that without effective training and a cultural change in the criminal justice system, perpetrators will still not be brought to justice. It is in areas of the country where there has been training that the law is most effective. I would be grateful if the Minister could say what investment has been made in the training of prosecutors. Will he also say why there are still no sentencing guidelines for stalking, and when these could be expected?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bates]

The sentencing guidelines are an independent matter for the Sentencing Council, but I will certainly look into that point. In terms of the training, a great deal of work has gone on through the College of Policing, which is the vehicle by which most training is provided. The Crown Prosecution Service has also done a great deal of work, particularly on encouraging more prosecutions under the stalking laws rather than under harassment legislation, which was there before, so that we get a better picture of the nature of the crime. But we continue to look at this important area.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

Is the Minister aware of the substantial growth in cyberstalking over recent months and years? Is he satisfied that adequate powers are available, under anti-stalking legislation or other legislation, and will he make it his business to link up with those in the police force who are quite concerned about this?

[Lord Bates]

The National Crime Agency takes the lead in this area, particularly on child exploitation. A great deal of work has been going on in schools, pointing out the dangers of online abuse. Of course, we took legislative action in the Criminal Justice and Courts Bill, when we introduced the clause on revenge pornography. This area is one that my noble friend Lady Shields, the Minister for Internet Safety and Security, is very focused on and is having conversations with internet service providers about.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will be very aware of the effect of domestic violence on children and young people. What are the Government doing to ensure that their rights and emotional needs are being met during the proper but difficult process of prosecution for domestic violence incidents?

[Lord Bates]

We have now introduced a system where we have independent domestic violence advisers. They have a critical role to play because, in a very chaotic, difficult and emotionally stressful situation, they can signpost people to the help that they need, particularly the families who are victims in this area.

[Baroness Brinton (LD)]

My Lords, during the passage of the stalking law reforms in your Lordships’ House, there was considerable debate about how the CPS could be encouraged not to use the harassment law as an easy way to get a conviction. The Minister has outlined that he believes that more cases are being defined as stalking, but the opposite is true according to the press. How can the Government ensure that the CPS is held accountable to make sure that stalking cases are taken as such and not through the easy win of harassment?

[Lord Bates]

That is a very good point and comes back to the earlier point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Nye. A consultation is taking place between the CPS and the College of Policing, as well as with Paladin and the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, which do so much valuable work in this area, to see what further training could be provided. When you look at the figures and see that there are 9,180 prosecutions under harassment and 676 under stalking, clearly there is still further work to be done to make sure that people are being prosecuted in the right area.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, the Question also relates to domestic violence, and the same point on training and cultural change applies to the new domestic violence offence of coercive control, the campaign in respect of which was led by Paladin, Women’s Aid and the Sara Charlton Foundation. If I am right in saying that it has not happened already, could the Minister say, first, when the new domestic violence offence of coercive control will be introduced? Secondly, what action is being taken to ensure that the necessary training is being and will be provided throughout the police and the judicial system, including for prosecutors, judges and magistrates, to ensure that the new law—including the reasons for it and the psychological intimidation and control it is intended to address—is fully and effectively understood and that it is used and applied as intended in all relevant parts of the country? The evidence, including that from the new stalking laws, suggests that inadequate and incomplete training about new offences leads to cases not being pursued or to unduly lenient sentences because the seriousness of the new offence is not fully understood or recognised.

[Lord Bates]

That is a fair point. We have pledged that the coercive and controlling behaviour provision in the Serious Crime Act will come into force by the end of the year. It will be in force by the end of the year and training will be provided alongside it. On the other point, about ensuring the right response and that people are trained for it, Garry Shewan, the assistant chief constable of Greater Manchester Police, who is the national policing lead for stalking and harassment, has a very important role to play in co-ordinating the wider police response to this important crime.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, what measures are being taken to assist Muslim women to access the reporting facilities? A great deal of domestic violence goes on in households against women who do not feel at ease with some of the representatives who are available for them to access.

[Lord Bates]

There is a particular group called Imkaan which works in this area with BME communities and they are represented on the national oversight group which the Home Secretary set up to advise her on improving her response across government to domestic violence.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, the Justice Select Committee found that more than a third of the victims of domestic violence were unable to get legal aid because they could not provide evidence that such violence occurred within two years of their application. The Government responded with only a very minor reform. Will they now review the situation with a view to extending the time limits and, if not, why not?

[Lord Bates]

Certainly in relation to legal aid there is a merits test to go through. I understand that in cases of domestic violence there is a more generous provision than in other areas. There is an important new provision coming out in which we are going to refresh the cross-government strategy on tackling violence against women and girls. That will include some elements of new legislative responses which are available and being considered by the Government.

Police: Report of the Committee on Standards in Public Life

Lord Bates Excerpts

Monday 23rd November 2015 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to respond to this debate on behalf of the Government. I thank the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, for raising this important issue, and congratulate him on securing the debate. Over many years the noble Earl has raised the issue of improving the accountability and transparency of our police forces, particularly in relation to the recording of crime statistics. Although it sometimes makes the Home Office uncomfortable, the whole policing service and the whole Government appreciate his scrutiny, his interest in the minutiae and the rigour he brings to the very important area of maintaining public confidence in the data we have. I also thank all noble Lords who have spoken in the debate.

The noble Earl framed the debate around the Committee on Standards in Public Life’s report on the leadership, accountability and ethics of local policing. I take this opportunity to thank the Chair of that committee, the noble Lord, Lord Bew, for the work he and the committee undertook to draft that report. I was particularly pleased to note the committee’s observation that police and crime commissioners have brought

“new impetus in many areas - greater innovation, increased visibility and a greater focus on community engagement and victim support”.

On page 24 there is a very interesting statistic about the level of awareness. A survey carried out for the committee found that 68% of people surveyed in 2014 had heard of their PCC. That is quite an impressive number, certainly when compared with the very low numbers that knew about the predecessor chairman of the police committee. The fact that there is greater interest in and scrutiny of the role must show that growing awareness. I am aware that several noble Lords questioned the awareness of PCCs and their democratic legitimacy. Of course, they were elected by 5.8 million people who expressed a view and turned out to vote. We believe that that number will be significantly higher when elections are held next year, not least because the role is becoming more established. For all those reasons, it is critical that the issue of ethics and integrity is at the heart of the deliberations.

The committee’s report contains many thought-provoking observations—20 in total. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, wrote to my right honourable friend the Home Secretary on 27 June, following the publication of the report, and requested that the Home Office respond by the end of November. I can confirm that the response will come by the end of November—by which we do not mean Sunday night, but this week. It has not been able to clear all the internal hurdles that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, being an experienced member of your Lordships’ House, will understand it needs to clear, so I will need to tread a bit carefully over some of the recommendations he wanted to hear about. He will not have to wait much longer, but I will not be able to satisfy him in every particular today.

I am sure noble Lords will understand that because of the formal response needed here, I am not in a position to address all those issues today. The Government take these issues, and police integrity more broadly, very seriously. It is at the heart of public confidence in policing and underpins the model of policing by consent.

Although I am unable to comment on the specifics of the report, I feel it is important for me to set out what this Government have done to put in place reforms to improve the accountability, transparency and integrity of policing in England and Wales and throughout the rest of the United Kingdom.

The most significant of these reforms came three years ago this month, with the election of PCCs. Since coming into post, PCCs have brought real local accountability to the performance of chief constables and their forces and are working hard to ensure that their local communities have a stronger voice in policing.

I appreciated reading through the report in some detail, especially some of the more anecdotal evidence given to the committee by representatives from local police forces—Greater Manchester being one; Merseyside another—on how the police and crime commissioners are working with the chief constable to implement these measures. That is a good example of what my noble friend Lord Wasserman said about local police and crime commissioners taking the initiative without necessarily needing to be instructed at every juncture. They realise that public confidence and ethical standards are at the heart of being able to carry out their duty, and that is happening.

The public profile of PCCs means that they are scrutinised in a way that anonymous police authorities were not, which helps to improve accountability in policing. Further, police and crime panels—PCPs—have been introduced in every police force area to scrutinise the actions and decisions of each PCC and make sure that information is available for the public, enabling them to hold the PCC to account.

PCPs have a range of powers to help them carry out their functions and specific responsibilities. A panel can, at reasonable notice, require the PCC to come before it. This power also extends to the staff of the PCC, including the deputy commissioner. The PCP is responsible for recording complaints made against a PCC and, where they are not of a criminal nature, resolving any such complaints.

The noble Lord, Lord Blair, made some very particular points about the operational integrity of chief constables and their ability to carry out investigations without fear or favour. That is a very important element. In fact, just last week, during a couple of Questions that came up in the House, we talked about the importance of integrity. The unique role of the Office of Constable and the oath that is given also came up. The oath is not to the Home Secretary but to Her Majesty, and is to pursue matters without fear or favour.

I am interested in the personal experience of the noble Lord, Lord Blair, in this regard, but there are particular procedures in place. I will not get into commenting on whether the Mayor of London followed them in that case, but the general point is that Schedule 8 to the police responsibility Act and Regulation 11A contain specific regulations and guidance as to how that ought to be done. It should involve the HMIC and conversations with the police and crime panel. That is set out. In that context, I am sure that this report will be read widely by police and crime commissioners. They should make themselves aware of their commitments, which they are obliged to do under law, when undertaking these matters.

The College of Policing was introduced as the first professional body for all policing in England and Wales. The college develops standards for policing based on strong evidence, so that future police practice is always based on evidence and not habit. The creation of the College of Policing is an important pillar in the programme of police reform, setting high professional standards, sharing what works best across policing, acting as the national voice of policing and ensuring that police training and ethics are of the highest possible quality.

In that context, the police Code of Ethics, produced by the College of Policing, has been published for the first time. Certainly, we would encourage all police and crime commissioners to have a discussion with their chief constables as to how that guidance is reflected in their forces. The Code of Ethics plays an important role in addressing some of the concerns about the ethics and behaviour of police officers and staff, particularly in relation to the media—a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Blair. A consultation and review is taking place on relations with the media, including guidance on how contact with the media should take place and what procedures should be followed. That is an important part of the work of the College of Policing.

I refer also to the important role played by Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary. It is important to look at the structural changes being made in the way that policing is maintained. Three years ago HMIC introduced the PEEL programme, which is all about the efficiency, effectiveness and legitimacy of the police. Its reports have been helpful in raising standards in forces across the country.

As the result of the changes made, the Office for National Statistics has highlighted the fact that recent increases in recorded crime are largely a consequence of improving recording practices within forces through the inclusion of previously underreported crimes such as sexual offences. Victims are now more confident about coming forward, which is something to be welcomed.

The Government have made great strides in improving the accountability, leadership and ethics of local policing, but the job is not finished. We are making changes to legislation to make sure that police complaints and disciplinary systems are fairer and more transparent. The package includes making the police complaints system more independent of the police by expanding the role of the PCCs, and introducing systems for supercomplaints to ensure that the key trends and patterns in policing can be raised and addressed appropriately. We will overhaul the police disciplinary system following a review by Major-General Chapman. We will strengthen protections for police whistleblowers and enable the IPCC to continue to operate effectively by strengthening its powers. The Government intend to introduce these reforms in the Policing and Criminal Justice Bill that was announced in the Queen’s Speech.

I said that the progress the Government have made on police reform is not finished. In truth, we must never rest when it comes to ensuring that our police have the best leaders who are properly held to account and who lead forces according to the highest ethical standards. Another table in the report shows that the level of confidence and trust that people have in senior police officers is just a fraction short of that for judges, and significantly above that for elected and appointed members of what one might call the political class. We can have great confidence in the quality and integrity of our police forces. Reports such as that produced by the noble Lord, Lord Bew, and his committee will only serve to strengthen that.

Again, I thank the noble Earl for introducing this debate and I can assure him that by the end of the week, there will be further news in the shape of the Home Secretary’s response.

Committee adjourned at 5.34 pm.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office: Funding

Lord Bates Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Helic (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. The terrible attacks in Istanbul, Beirut and Paris remind us that security is the most valuable currency of our times. From the Middle East to Asia and Europe we face challenges that cannot be resolved by aid or military deployments. Although hard power is sometimes necessary, these problems require diplomatic solutions, yet the Foreign Office has been at risk of being stripped to the bone. The department protects British interests in 168 countries with far fewer staff than Sheffield City Council. Its diplomatic network is the same size as that of France—

[Noble Lords]

A question!

[Baroness Helic]

Certainly. I fully understand that we have to meet our financial obligations, but I respectfully ask the noble Earl whether, as we wait for the national security strategy—no doubt with more tasks for the Foreign Office—he can assure the House that the FCO will be funded in the current spending review?