Road Traffic Act 1988 (Alcohol Limits) (Amendment) Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Friday 29th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. In particular, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, for bringing forward the Bill. I listened carefully to all the contributions and I thank him for his comprehensive, thoughtful and compelling contribution. He asked for my views on the BAC in 1967. I declare a personal interest: I was not even a twinkle in my parents’ eyes at that time—maybe I was. The Government consider it very important to monitor all the elements that contribute to the number of deaths on our roads.

My noble friend Lord Attlee talked about the lower number of deaths that occur in the United Kingdom. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, made a very personal contribution about her experience. I remember as a young child the experience of drink-driving was not on a personal level—I suppose I should declare an interest as someone who, on faith and on principle, does not touch a drop, which will perhaps give an inkling of my views in this respect. It is important to underline as a general point that it is not a case of doubt: if you are drinking, you should not drive. That is a message that successive Governments have sought to give and it is right on a point of principle that that is where the doubt first arises.

Although I do not drink, I have been to wine bars and pubs and I am sure there are notices to that effect but they do not go into detail about 50 milligrams or 80 milligrams. They have a simple, concise message, understood by people of all ages: if you are drinking you should not drive. In my student days, I did not drink but had to drive others who had drunk. It was not a pleasant experience, I can assure your Lordships—not least if we were pulled over to the side with a whole bunch of people who were perhaps more merry than I was. To say I was not merry would be an understatement.

Turning to the matters before us today, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, in a very poignant contribution, talked about how drink-driving leaves families shattered, hurt and bereaved. I remember giving evidence in court after someone smashed into the back of our car, quite late on a Saturday evening, clearly drunk, but he got away with it because he drove off. Thankfully, it was late at night and there were no passengers in the car but it formulates the challenge that we have to face. The Government have taken this issue very seriously and I will come on to those points in a moment.

On 21 December last year the Government set out their plans for road safety in Working Together to Build a Safer Road System. Our priorities and plans are quite clear. We will consult on ways to tackle dangerous in-car mobile phone use, reported by the RAC as being one of motorists’ top concerns, with a view to increasing penalties for drivers using handheld mobile phones. I start on that point because it is important to set out what the Government are doing to reduce the number of all forms of road casualties. In addition, we have set up a £750,000 grant for police forces in England and Wales to build on drug-driving enforcement capability. We are consulting on legislative changes to improve cycle safety by ensuring that sideguards and rear under-run devices are not removed from HGVs, and consulting on proposals to support safety for motorcyclists, who account for 19% of all road deaths. We are consulting on ways to incentivise and reward the uptake of more pre-test practice and a broader range of real-world driving experiences for those who are starting to learn to drive, and undertaking a £2 million research programme to identify the best possible interventions for learner and novice drivers. We believe that these are all important steps that will help to reduce casualties further. As the Minister at the DfT responsible for our agencies, including the DVLA and DVSA, these are areas that I have already looked upon as priority issues to take forward.

But let me come back specifically to drink-driving. As we have already heard, it is estimated that 240 people were killed in collisions involving illegal levels of alcohol in 2013. Drink-drive deaths in 2013 were among the lowest since detailed recording began in 1979, when 1,640 people were killed, and accounted for around 14% of all road deaths. However, these are 240 too many. While police continue to robustly enforce against this reckless behaviour, the numbers of those testing positive or refusing a breath test—and, alongside this, prosecutions and convictions—have been falling continuously. This is good news.

However, drink-driving is still responsible for too many deaths and injuries. In order to prevent this, the Government will continue to take tough action against the small number of drivers who ignore the drink-drive limit. Many drivers killed in drink-drive collisions, or prosecuted for drinking and driving, are significantly over the current drink-drive limit. We have prioritised enforcement efforts to identify and deal with these dangerous individuals. We have a robust approach to deal with these high-risk offenders. As I am sure noble Lords will be aware, last year we made it a requirement for them to undertake medical tests to ensure that they are not still dependent on alcohol before they are allowed to drive again.

The same legislation, the Deregulation Act 2015, also made an important change to drink-driving laws by removing the so-called statutory option that allowed those drivers who provided a breath test that was slightly in excess of the prescribed limit to demand a blood or urine test. By removing this provision, individuals have been denied the chance to sober up and so drop below the prescribed limit while waiting for a blood or urine sample to be taken. There is also no longer a requirement for the police to do a preliminary test by the roadside if they use a mobile evidential breath-testing device. This has paved the way for the introduction next year of mobile evidential breath-testing instruments, which will enable taking evidential samples at the roadside quickly and efficiently and before a suspect has the chance to sober up and fall below the limit. This has the potential to make the enforcement process more efficient, giving officers more time being visible on the road while they deal with drink-driving offenders. This will in turn help bring the message home to other motorists that if they drink and drive they risk getting caught—with serious consequences.

My noble friend Lord Attlee spoke about the North review. I assure him that we have implemented most of the recommendations, including, as I have already said, that relating to the statutory option for drink- drivers. We have also implemented the drug-driving recommendations. We do not tolerate any form of impaired driving. That is why we introduced the new drug-driving offence in March 2015, setting specified limits for 17 drugs. The police are being successful in taking these dangerous drivers off our roads: more than 4,500 drug drivers have been convicted since the new offence came into force, compared to fewer than 900 in 2014. Moreover, 20% of drug-drivers have a previous drink-driving conviction. By clamping down on drug-driving we are therefore removing a significant number of dangerous drivers from our roads.

With regard to the lower drink-drive limit, I accept that apart from Malta, all other European countries have a lower alcohol limit than England and Wales but, as my noble friend Lord Attlee pointed out, they do not have a better record on reducing drink-drive casualties. In England and Wales, the penalties for drink-driving are more severe than in other countries, including those with lower limits. I am sure all noble Lords will therefore agree that lowering the limit in itself is not going to change people’s behaviour. Neither would it be the best use of our resources in improving safety on our roads at this time. That said, with regards to Scotland, which the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, and others referred to, we will of course be very interested to see the full impact across casualties and the rates of drink-drive offences.

The noble Lord, Lord Brooke, and others mentioned waiting for the evidence base. One thing that I will take back from this debate is, certainly, to take up directly with the appropriate Scottish Minister when we are likely to see that substantial evidence base, with a view to holding a meeting. It is important to base our decisions on evidence and the Scottish experience will be crucial to that.

We have had strong successes in tackling drink-driving through rigorous enforcement, tough penalties and changing the social acceptability of drink-driving, including through our award-winning campaigns. This is how we will continue to tackle those people reckless enough to consider getting in their car after drinking. As noble Lords will know, our award-winning THINK! road safety campaigns remain an important tool to educate people about changes in our motoring laws and safer behaviour choices.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, talked about education—in part, about looking at the DVSA and graduate driving. For the first time since 2007, we are running a drink-driving campaign on television, ensuring a very wide reach. It tackles those drivers who we know drink before getting in a car. A staggering one in five men between 18 and 34 declare that they would consider having two or more drinks before driving, so our campaign aims to persuade them to change their behaviour in a way that we believe will work. We will of course evaluate this campaign, as we always do. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, pointed out the importance of having independent reviews and analysis. I will certainly take that back to the department and look at what work has been done in that respect.

In thanking all noble Lords for their contributions, let me reiterate that the Government regard this issue as a priority. I have highlighted some of the initiatives that we are taking in this respect. Clearly, more can and needs to be done but in changing any limits we must consider the evidence base, as I am sure the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, and others would acknowledge. However, I give my personal assurance that I will take back to the department the details and learning from what has been a very well-informed and, at times, personal debate. I would very much welcome a meeting with the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, to see how we can progress this matter because I believe, as do all noble Lords, that any life lost because of the reckless act of a particular individual wrecks lives and homes. We need to take action to ensure that we can eradicate this from our society.

Railways: South-West Network

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to improve the resilience of the rail network in the south-west.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are fully supportive of the initiatives which the rail industry is taking, led by Network Rail, to improve the resilience of the rail network in the south-west. The initiatives include implementation of the weather resilience and climate change adaptation plan for the western route over the period 2014 to 2019. Measures also include improvements to drainage systems, strengthening vulnerable structures, the greater use of specialist forecasting tools and improving flood resilience at key risk sites.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer. Those are very fine words, but the House will remember the Dawlish scenario two years ago, when a whole sea wall collapsed and access to much of Devon, Cornwall and Plymouth by rail was effectively cut off for several months. As the Minister said, Network Rail responded well but, as he will know, the problem is that the work is not yet finished. I quote David Cameron on one of his many welcome visits to the south-west. He said that cost would not “put him off” delivering what the region needed. George Osborne was there, too, and he said—and I quote—the Government would commit £7 billion of investment into transport. Can the Minister explain why last week the Government cut all funding to Network Rail, even for carrying out studies on the next stage of resilience? After the election, it is all forgotten.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The picture that the noble Lord paints is not factually correct. As he knows, we are putting £38 billion just into the rail sector—the biggest investment since the Victorian age. The fact that my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Chancellor have visited the sites, including Dawlish, where we have restored what was damaged with an investment of £40 million, underlines the Government’s commitment. The top people in government are visiting those sites and putting money into ensuring that resilience measures are in place.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the opening up of the Okehampton-Tavistock-Plymouth line, with the middle bit replaced, would serve north Devon very well? It is an area that suffers from very poor public transport links, exacerbated by planned further cuts to bus services.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The whole area has been underlined by the Government’s commitment. The noble Baroness will know that, in 2014, we committed over £26 million of greater investment to improve resilience in the area. The particular line she points out has suffered, but improvements are being put in place. Let me underline again the Government’s commitment to ensure that, following the flooding damage that was done, we are looking at how we can improve further resilience measures, including the raising of rail tracks and control boxes.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, as the House is aware, for the past two months there has been no direct rail connection from Carlisle in England through to Newcastle, Edinburgh or Glasgow. There is no sign of that ending, as far as we know. Can the Minister tell the House what the position is on opening up Scotland from the west side of England?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important issue about investment across the country and connectivity. I will write to him specifically about that particular route but, again, I repeat the commitments made. The investment we are making in the railway industry, including HS2, underlines the Government’s commitment to improve rail network connectivity across the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

May I revert to my noble friend Lord Berkeley’s Question and the Answer that the Minister gave? Can the Minister say why the money is not going in and there has been a pause on the work to be undertaken by Network Rail? What is the reason for that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I said in my original response, the Government have made commitments. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, talked about Dawlish, and we have completed the task there. He also referenced the new GRIP study and the issues around governance and finding funding for that. The department is looking at that.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

Let me just be clear on what the Minister is saying. He said that my noble friend Lord Berkeley was factually incorrect. It is not factually incorrect that the Department for Transport and Network Rail have confirmed to the Peninsula Rail Task Force that there will be no further funding for development in the south-west prior to 2019 and no funding for the two key Network Rail studies on journey time reduction and electrification, which are integral to a Peninsula Rail Task Force report commissioned by the Department for Transport and the Prime Minister and due for publication this summer. The issue was raised in the Commons yesterday with the Prime Minister, who was unable to give a commitment over the funding. Can the Minister say whether the government climb-down on this issue will come this week or next week?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

This is about investment in the future of our railways. I recognise the Peninsula Rail Task Force’s concern to push forward on the detailed studies on the opportunities for line enhancements. I, too, want to see this work happen, and the Government want to see it happen, in a way that is appropriate to the changes that will, as I am sure the noble Lord knows, come from the Bowe review. We will also work with Network Rail to ensure that whatever future development is required for the next rail investment period, CP6, it is made. The strategy is planned for publication in July 2017.

[Baroness Fookes (Con)]

My Lords, is there any long-term plan to look at altering the line, where it now goes through Dawlish, back inland? I am not so sanguine as perhaps the Minister is about the long-term resilience of that Dawlish section.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I will certainly write to my noble friend in that respect.

[Lord Harrison (Lab)]

My Lords, parroting the global amount being spent does not answer the specific Question that has been repeatedly put to the Minister about the studies that are preparatory to the work. Why have they dried up?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me be even more clear: the studies are being looked at. We have taken on board what the Peninsula Rail Task Force has said. My honourable friend the Rail Minister, Claire Perry, even this morning reiterated the Government’s stance that we are working with officials and looking at the studies to ensure that those improvement studies can be properly funded.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister accused my noble friend Lord Berkeley of being factually incorrect. He did not do the same to my noble friend Lord Rosser. Presumably, the Minister is confirming that it is correct that the rail enterprises concerned have been informed that there is no more money. What exactly is the situation? Are the Government looking at something that has already happened but, at the same time, telling somebody that there is no money to go any further?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I have already given the Government’s position: we are investing in our rail network. I have been clear about that to the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. If the noble Lord, Lord Harris, wants me to say that the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, was also incorrect that the Government are not making money available for investment in rail—we are. On the specific study on governance, as I have already said, my honourable friend in the other place made clear that she is looking at this issue very closely with officials to ensure that the appropriate money required for the governance studies will be found.

Religious Hate Crime

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the risk that Christians could be recorded as having committed an anti-Muslim hate crime from April 2016 by preaching the divinity of Christ or by reading aloud sections of the Bible in public, such as 1 John, Chapter 4, verses 1 to 3.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, reading texts from the holy Bible in public or preaching the divinity of Christ is not a crime, and never will be in this country. The Government’s counterextremism strategy makes it clear that we will protect free speech and the right to profess, practise and propagate any religion, or indeed none.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. I must say that I thought it was brave of the Prime Minister to say in his Christmas message that Jesus is the only son of God, because that will not have gone down all that well with the Islamists. Will a Christian preacher be committing this new hate crime if he goes a little further and denies the supremacy of the Koran, and thus the divinity of Allah? Secondly, I assume that the Minister agrees that the serious hatred is coming from the jihadists, against non-Muslims and against those brave Muslims who oppose the jihadists’ evil creed and form the large majority of the thousands whom they have slaughtered. So how can anyone be guilty of hate if they preach their own religion, even outside a mosque, and take part in much-needed debate about Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the Government are clear that anyone who preaches any kind of hate has no place here, and I believe that all of us across this House unite on that. Bigotry has no place and any kind of hate, be it based on race, sexual orientation or religion, has no place in British society. The Government, our legal system and our police will stand against that. The noble Lord made brief reference to the Prime Minister’s message. My right honourable friend mentioned the holy personage of Jesus Christ, whom Muslims celebrate because, as the noble Lord well knows, Muslims also regard and revere the Prophet Jesus as a prophet of God.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, today is Holocaust Memorial Day—a day to remember those who perished and the brave soldiers who helped to liberate the camps, and to remember and pay tribute to the depleting band of survivors who spend their days educating young people. I also commend the Prime Minister for his announcement today that a fitting memorial will be erected adjacent to this House, in Victoria Tower Gardens. Does the Minister agree that, today of all days, we should acknowledge where hate crime can lead? Does he further agree that the vital task of the Prime Minister’s Holocaust foundation should be to concentrate on educating young people as, sadly, there will soon be no survivors to tell the story?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I join my noble friend in the sentiments he expressed. Indeed, I believe I speak for every Member of this House as we come together on this poignant day, when we remember those who passed away in the Holocaust—the victims of the biggest crime of genocide against humanity that we have seen in the world. We must work together, including on education. I am therefore proud that on entering my office in the Home Office, if you look to the right, the first certificate you will see is for the Anne Frank Trust UK, which does an incredible job in promoting Holocaust education. I praise the efforts of all organisations and the work of my noble friend in this respect.

[The Lord Bishop of Worcester]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that Questions phrased in this manner are not conducive to building positive relations between faith communities, in particular with Muslim communities, as we are endeavouring to do in the church at a time when Muslims are feeling unfairly stigmatised? Does he further accept that Muslims, and people of all faiths, greatly enrich our society and make a significant contribution to the common good?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate, but I also believe very strongly that adversity is an opportunity and that Questions such as this present an opportunity to all of us in this House, across the political spectrum, to speak with one voice and unite against bigotry in all its ugly guises.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister agree with me—

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[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale]

I think it is this side. Will the Minister agree with me that the idea that bigotry and hatred are confined only to the extreme elements in the Islamic religion in this country is absolute nonsense? Historically, bigotry and hatred have been inflicted on both Catholic and Protestant communities right across the United Kingdom by alternative Christian religions. Will he join me in consistently condemning all forms of religious sectarianism and bigotry? If we do that in this House, we will perhaps have a stronger message to tell the country.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Lord. One other point I would add is that whenever we face such bigotry, the resilience of our country and our historic legacy shows that when we face those challenges, we come together as a more united nation going forward.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon]

My Lords, when religions claim competing exclusive truths, the end result is conflict. Is it not better to go along with the proposition that the one God of us all is not in the least bit interested in our different religious labels but in what we do to make life better for those around us?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Lord, who speaks with great poignancy and expertise in this area. I regard religion very much as a route: we all have the same beginning and the same end, and the religion we follow is but a different path towards that end.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House what research the Government are doing into the causes of the genuine and alarming increase in both anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic hate crime and whether the increasing anti-Muslim rhetoric in some British media—and elsewhere—might be the case?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is quite right to point out what is being done. He will be aware from his own previous profession that the Government are working with the police and with communities to ensure that any kind of religious hate is formally recorded and that people are educated that they should report hate crime. From April this year, as the noble Lord will be aware, the Government will ensure that anti-Muslim hatred, along with other religious hate crime, is formally recorded by every police force across England and Wales.

[Lord Maginnis of Drumglass (Ind UU)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that we have already had a case in Northern Ireland, where a Christian Minister was literally persecuted for months before eventually being brought before our courts, tried and acquitted? Do we still have British law in Northern Ireland, or is that now being adjusted to suit sectarian interests in my part of the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I, for one, am very proud of our justice system across the United Kingdom. Despite every challenge and diversity, there is great faith in our justice system. As we have seen previously, our justice system even stands up for those who seek to divide us or promote hate in our society.

Bus Services: Local Government Funding

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greaves]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect of reductions in local government spending on local bus services in 2016–17.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, decisions about the provision of bus services requiring local government subsidy are a matter for individual English local authorities in the light of their other spending priorities. The majority of public funding for local bus services is via the block grant provided to local authorities in England from DCLG. The Department for Transport also provides £40 million in bus service operators grant funding directly to English local authorities to help deliver local bus services.

[Lord Greaves (LD)]

My Lords, that is a factually correct account. However, all over the country there are horrific stories about local bus services being cut as a result of cuts in council subsidies which are as a result of cuts in the funding of local authorities. In my own county of Lancashire, the proposal that will go before the county council is to abolish bus subsidies for services to villages, services in rural areas, and the little buses that go around the towns, which are so important. Is this really the legacy that this Government want to leave?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is not. I mentioned the bus service operators grant. In Lancashire, last year, we provided £1.86 million directly for the purposes of retaining services. The Government are looking at the overall offering of bus services, particularly in rural areas, to ensure both connectivity and the sustainability of essential transport links.

[Lord Snape (Lab)]

My Lords, did the Minister happen to see the BBC “Countryfile” programme last Sunday, which set out starkly the decline in bus services throughout this country, particularly in rural areas? Does he agree with the conclusions of that programme that this decline is largely due to the reduction in government payments to local authorities and direct grants for bus services? Can he assure the House that the much-vaunted devolution of these services will be accompanied by proper finance? Otherwise, some of us might suspect, that decline will continue, with the blame moving from Whitehall to the town hall.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I did not see the programme. Part of my Sundays are taken up with my own “countryfile” responsibilities of helping my children build their country projects—in this case, however, it was a chocolate cake.

To get back to the question, the noble Lord is quite right to point out that there are challenges in funding. However, this is not about apportioning blame to one over the other; it is about ensuring that essential services are sustained, and the Government are moving forward on this. Indeed, yesterday, during the debate on the devolution Bill, I talked about the creation of STBs, which I intend will ensure that local decisions on transport are made by the people who know best.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, given the drop in fuel prices, what action have the Government taken to ensure that there is now a reduction in bus fares to reflect the reduced cost arising from that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Lord will be aware, one of the legislative proposals coming forward is the buses Bill, which will ensure again that local authorities are empowered—through the purposes of franchising, for example—to ensure better, sustainable fares and the sustaining of essential bus services. That will form part and parcel of the Bill.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, Conservative councillors in Wiltshire, Dorset and Somerset are all among those proposing swingeing cuts to bus services across the country. Indeed, Somerset plans to cut community transport schemes which are usually the last refuge for rural services. The Government proposed after the election the reform of the bus service operators grant. That is clearly now delayed. Can the Minister tell the House when announcements will be made on this? Can he assure us that any reform of this grant will include an element for mileage which would protect rural bus services?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that the grant she talks about is being protected. Indeed, in the last spending round that is exactly the commitment given by my right honourable friend. The announcements are imminent and will be made quite shortly. I also draw the noble Baroness’s attention to the total transport pilot fund we are currently allocating to 37 local authorities which are looking at an integrated form and retention of transport funding, which includes the bus services operators grant, local bus services support through DCLG, home-to-school transport provided through DfE and DCLG, and non-emergency patient transport. We need an integrated approach to long-term solutions and sustainability at a local level.

[Baroness Perry of Southwark (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it is unfortunate that some local authorities are making cuts in services when they are sitting on substantial reserves?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with my noble friend but, as I have said already, it is very much a decision-making matter for local authorities. We are, through various legislative measures that we have taken in the previous Government and in this Government—only yesterday through the devolution Bill—underlining the importance this Government attaches to local decision-making, including on transport.

[Baroness Royall of Blaisdon (Lab)]

My Lords, local decision-making is extremely important but it requires funds to underpin it. However, much has been made about the need for good rural bus services. At the moment the cuts in rural bus services are hitting students particularly harshly. Will the Minister have a discussion with his colleagues in the Department for Education so that we can ensure that students choose their post-education studies on the basis of what is best for their future and not on the availability of buses to get them to and from their courses?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that I have regular discussions and conversations with colleagues across a vast range of areas and across different ministries. The total transport pilot fund I have highlighted again underlines the Government’s commitment to look at how funding works and how government funding is sourced and provided at a local level across a range of different departments. We are half-way through the pilot and I shall report back once we have completed it.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, do the Government agree that public services are part of our living standards and that when measuring the cost of living it is not only the retail prices index that is not moved by these affairs? People have to go to a supermarket a long way away and pay for a taxi or make some other arrangement. Is there not a case for an inquiry into how we measure the cost of living when it does not include these major elements?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As a public servant I agree with the opening statement of the noble Lord: the public sector is an important part of this. I do not agree with the premise that an inquiry is required. When it comes to transport, we need to ensure that we have schemes in place that work for ensuring sustainable transport at a local level. That is the Government’s priority.

Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th January 2016 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House do agree with the Commons in their Amendment 53.

53: After Clause 21, insert the following new Clause—
“Sub-national transport bodies
After Part 5 of the Local Transport Act 2008 insert—
“PART 5A
SUB-NATIONAL TRANSPORT BODIES
Establishment and constitution of STBs
102E Power to establish STBs
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations establish a sub-national transport body for any area in England outside Greater London.
(2) In this Part—
(a) “STB” means a sub-national transport body established under this section, and
(b) references to the area of an STB are to the area in England for which the STB is established.
(3) Regulations under this section must specify—
(a) the name by which the STB is to be known, and
(b) the area of the STB.
(4) The area of an STB must consist of the whole of the area of two or more relevant authorities (whether or not of the same kind).
(5) Each of the following is a “relevant authority” for the purposes of this Part—
(a) a combined authority;
(b) an ITA;
(c) a county council that comes within subsection (6);
(d) a unitary district council that comes within that subsection;
(e) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.
(6) A council comes within this subsection if no part of its area forms part of—
(a) the area of a combined authority, or
(b) an integrated transport area.
(7) An STB is to be established as a body corporate.
102F Requirements in connection with regulations under section 102E
(1) Regulations under section 102E may be made establishing an STB for an area only if the Secretary of State considers that—
(a) its establishment would facilitate the development and implementation of transport strategies for the area, and
(b) the objective of economic growth in the area would be furthered by the development and implementation of such strategies.
(2) The reference in subsection (1)(a) to “transport strategies”, in relation to the area of an STB, is a reference to strategies for improving—
(a) the exercise of transport functions in the area (whether or not exercisable by the STB), and
(b) the effectiveness and efficiency of transport to, from or within the area.
(3) Regulations under section 102E establishing an STB for an area may be made only if—
(a) the constituent authorities have together made a proposal to the Secretary of State for there to be an STB for the area, and
(b) those authorities consent to the making of the regulations.
(4) For the purposes of this Part, the constituent authorities of an STB are every relevant authority whose area is within the area, or proposed area, of the STB.
(5) Before making a proposal under this section the constituent authorities must consult—
(a) each appropriate authority (if it is not a constituent authority), and
(b) any other persons whom the constituent authorities consider it is appropriate to consult.
(6) The Secretary of State may require the constituent authorities to consult any other persons (not already consulted under subsection
(5)(b)) whom the Secretary of State considers should be consulted in connection with a proposal under this section.
(7) For the purposes of subsection (5), each of the following is an “appropriate authority” if any part of the authority’s area adjoins the area of the proposed STB—
(a) a combined authority;
(b) an ITA;
(c) Transport for London;
(d) a county council;
(e) a unitary district council;
(f) a London borough council.
102G Constitution of STBs
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about the constitutional arrangements in relation to an STB.
(2) “Constitutional arrangements”, in relation to an STB, include arrangements in respect of—
(a) the membership of the STB (including the number and appointment of members of the STB),
(b) the voting powers of members of the STB (including provision for different weight to be given to the vote of different descriptions of member),
(c) the executive arrangements of the STB, and
(d) the functions of any executive body of the STB.
(3) Regulations made by virtue of subsection (2)(a) which include provision about the number and appointment of members of the STB must provide—
(a) for the members of the STB to be appointed by the STB’s constituent authorities, and
(b) for those members to be appointed from among the elected members of the constituent authorities.
(4) Regulations made by virtue of subsection (2)(a) may provide for persons, who are not elected members of the constituent authorities, to be appointed as co-opted members of an STB; but such regulations must provide (by virtue of subsection (2)(b)) for those co-opted members to be non-voting members of the STB.
(5) The voting members of an STB may resolve that provision made in accordance with subsection (4) is not to apply (generally or in relation to particular matters) in the case of the STB.
(6) In subsection (2)(c) “executive arrangements” means—
(a) the appointment of an executive;
(b) the functions of the STB which are the responsibility of an executive;
(c) the functions of the STB which are the responsibility of an executive and which may be discharged by a committee of the STB, by an officer of the STB or by a body other than the STB;
(d) arrangements relating to the review and scrutiny of the discharge of functions;
(e) access to information on the proceedings of an executive of the STB;
(f) the keeping of a record of any arrangements relating to the STB and falling within any of paragraphs (a) to (e).
(7) The provision which may be made by regulations by virtue of subsection (2)(d) includes—
(a) provision setting up or dissolving an executive body of an STB, or merging two or more executive bodies of an STB;
(b) provision conferring functions on, or removing functions from, an executive body of an STB;
(c) provision transferring functions of an STB to an executive body of the STB, and transferring functions of an executive body of an STB to the STB.
(8) Regulations under this section may authorise an STB to delegate any of its functions to one or more of its constituent authorities (and any such delegation may be made subject to conditions or limitations).
(9) Regulations under this section may not provide for the budget of an STB to be agreed otherwise than by the STB.
(10) For the purposes of subsections (3) and (4), the “elected members” of a constituent authority—
(a) in the case of a combined authority, are the mayor for the area of the combined authority (if there is one) and those members of the authority who are appointed from among the elected members of the authority’s constituent councils (see section 85(1)(b) above as applied by section 104(2) of the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009);
(b) in the case of an ITA, are those members of the ITA who are appointed from among the elected members of the ITA’s constituent councils (see section 85(1)(b) above);
(c) in the case of a county council, a unitary district council or the Council of the Isles of Scilly, are the elected members of the council.
Functions
102H General functions
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide for an STB to have any of the following functions in relation to its area—
(a) to prepare a transport strategy for the area (see section 102I);
(b) to provide advice to the Secretary of State about the exercise of transport functions in relation to the area (whether exercisable by the Secretary of State or others);
(c) to co-ordinate the carrying out of transport functions in relation to the area that are exercisable by different constituent authorities, with a view to improving the effectiveness and efficiency in the carrying out of those functions;
(d) if the STB considers that a transport function in relation to the area would more effectively and efficiently be carried out by the STB, to make proposals to the Secretary of State for the transfer of that function to the STB;
(e) to make other proposals to the Secretary of State about the role and functions of the STB.
(2) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide for an STB to have other functions of a description set out in the regulations.
(3) Regulations under subsection (2) may be made only for functions to be exercisable in relation to the area of the STB that—
(a) relate to transport,
(b) the Secretary of State considers can appropriately be exercised by the STB, and
(c) are not already exercisable in relation to that area by a local authority or a public authority (see instead sections 102J and 102K respectively for a power to transfer such functions to an STB).
(4) The Secretary of State may by regulations make further provision about how an STB is to carry out functions that it has under or by virtue of this Part.
(5) Regulations under this section in relation to an existing STB may be made only with the consent of the STB.
(6) Nothing in this section limits the power of the Secretary of State to confer other functions on an STB under this Part.
102I Transport strategy of an STB
(1) The transport strategy of an STB is a document containing the STB’s proposals for the promotion and encouragement of sustainable, safe, integrated, efficient and economic transport facilities and services to, from and within the area of the STB.
(2) The transport facilities and services mentioned in subsection (1) are—
(a) those required to meet the needs of persons (including pedestrians) living or working in, or visiting, the area of the STB, and
(b) those required for the transportation of freight.
(3) An STB may include in its transport strategy any other proposals it considers appropriate that relate to transport to, from or within its area.
(4) An STB must publish its transport strategy.
(5) If an STB revises its transport strategy, the STB must publish the strategy as revised.
(6) In preparing or revising its transport strategy an STB must carry out a public consultation.
(7) In carrying out a public consultation under subsection (6), the STB must ensure that such of the following persons as the STB considers appropriate (taking into account the proposals to be contained in the strategy) have a reasonable opportunity to respond to the consultation—
(a) the Secretary of State;
(b) a combined authority;
(c) another STB;
(d) an ITA;
(e) a Passenger Transport Executive;
(f) Transport for London;
(g) a person to whom a licence is granted under section 8 of the Railways Act 1993 (licences authorising persons to be operator of railway assets);
(h) Highways England Company Limited;
(i) a local highway authority (within the meaning of the
Highways Act 1980);
(j) a county council in England;
(k) a unitary district council;
(l) a London borough council.
(8) In preparing or revising its transport strategy an STB must (among other matters) have regard to—
(a) the promotion of economic growth in its area,
(b) the social and environmental impacts in connection with the implementation of the proposals contained in the strategy,
(c) any current national policy relating to transport that has been published by or on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government, and
(d) the results of the public consultation mentioned in subsection (6).
(9) The Secretary of State must have regard to proposals contained in the transport strategy of an STB that appear to the Secretary of State to further the objective of economic growth in the area of the STB in determining—
(a) national policies relating to transport (so far as relevant in relation to such proposals), and
(b) how such policies are to be implemented in relation to the area of the STB.
(10) The constituent authorities of an STB must exercise transport functions with a view to securing the implementation of the proposals contained in the STB’s transport strategy.
(11) In this Part “transport strategy”, in relation to an STB, means the transport strategy prepared or revised by an STB under this section by virtue of the function in section 102H(1)(a).
102J Exercise of local transport functions
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide for functions that are exercisable by a local authority in an area that is, or is to become, the area of an STB to be exercisable by the STB.
(2) Regulations under this section may be made—
(a) only in relation to functions that relate to transport, and
(b) only if the Secretary of State considers that the function can appropriately be exercised by the STB.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(a), regulations under this section may be made in respect of a function that relates both to transport and to other matters only so far as the function is exercisable in relation to transport.
(4) Regulations under this section may make provision for a function to be exercisable by the STB either generally or subject to such conditions or limitations as may be specified in the regulations.
(5) Regulations under this section may make provision—
(a) for a function to be exercisable by the STB instead of by the local authority, or
(b) for a function to be exercisable by the STB concurrently with the local authority.
(6) Regulations under this section may be made only with the consent of—
(a) the local authority concerned, and
(b) in the case of regulations made in relation to an existing STB, the STB.
(7) In this section “local authority” means—
(a) a combined authority;
(b) an ITA;
(c) a Passenger Transport Executive;
(d) a county council in England;
(e) a unitary district council;
(f) the Council of the Isles of Scilly.
102K Other public authority functions
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide for functions that are exercisable by a public authority in relation to an area that is, or is to become, the area of an STB to be exercisable by the STB.
(2) Regulations under this section may be made—
(a) only in relation to functions that relate to transport, and
(b) only if the Secretary of State considers that the function can appropriately be exercised by the STB.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2)(a), regulations under this section may be made in respect of a function that relates both to transport and to other matters only so far as the function is exercisable in relation to transport.
(4) Regulations under this section may make provision for a function to be exercisable by the STB either generally or subject to such conditions or limitations as may be specified in the regulations.
(5) Regulations under this section may make provision—
(a) for a function to be exercisable by the STB instead of by the public authority, or
(b) for a function to be exercisable by the STB jointly with the public authority.
(6) Regulations under this section in relation to an existing STB may be made only with the consent of the STB.
(7) In this section—
“function” does not include a power to make regulations or other instruments of a legislative character;
“Minister of the Crown” has the same meaning as in the Ministers of the Crown Act 1975;
“public authority”—
(a) includes a Minister of the Crown or a government department;
(b) does not include a local authority as defined by section 102J.
102L Funding
(1) The Secretary of State may pay grants to STBs to cover expenditure incurred in the carrying out of their functions.
(2) Grants may be paid under this section subject to any conditions the Secretary of State thinks appropriate (including conditions as to repayment).
(3) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision—
(a) for the constituent authorities of an STB to contribute to its costs, and
(b) about the basis on which the amount payable by each constituent authority is to be determined.
General powers etc
102M General powers
(1) An STB may do—
(a) anything it considers appropriate for the purposes of the carrying out of any of its functions (its “functional purposes”),
(b) anything it considers appropriate for purposes incidental (whether directly or indirectly) to its functional purposes,
(c) anything it considers to be connected with—
(i) any of its functions, or
(ii) anything it may do under paragraph (a) or (b), and
(d) for a commercial purpose, anything which it may do under any of paragraphs (a) to (c) otherwise than for a commercial purpose.
(2) Where subsection (1) confers power on an STB to do something, it confers power (subject to section 102N) to do it anywhere in the United Kingdom or elsewhere.
(3) Power conferred on an STB by subsection (1) is in addition to, and is not limited by, the other powers of the STB.
(4) Where an STB has an executive body established by virtue of section 102G, the STB may delegate to that body its function of taking action under subsection (1) (but not the function of determining what action to take).
102N Boundaries of power under section 102M
(1) Section 102M(1) does not enable an STB to do anything which it is unable to do by virtue of a post-commencement limitation which is expressed to apply—
(a) to its power under section 102M(1),
(b) to all of its powers, or
(c) to all of its powers but with exceptions that do not include its power under section 102M(1).
(2) Section 102M(1) does not authorise an STB to borrow money.
(3) Section 102M(1)(a) to (c) do not authorise an STB to charge a person for anything it does otherwise than for a commercial purpose (but see section 93 of the Local Government Act 2003 (power of STBs and other best value authorities to charge for discretionary services)).
(4) Section 102M(1)(d) does not authorise an STB to do things for a commercial purpose in relation to a person if a statutory provision requires the STB to do those things in relation to the person.
(5) Where under section 102M(1)(d) an STB does things for a commercial purpose, it must do them through—
(a) a company within the meaning given by section 1(1) of the Companies Act 2006, or
(b) a registered society within the meaning of the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014.
(6) In this section—
“post-commencement limitation” means a prohibition, restriction or other limitation imposed by a statutory provision that—
(a) is contained in an Act passed after the end of the Session in which the Cities and Local Government Devolution Act 2015 is passed, or
(b) is contained in an instrument made under an Act and comes into force on or after the commencement of section (Sub-national transport bodies) of that Act;
“statutory provision” means a provision of an Act or of an instrument made under an Act.
102O Power to make provision supplemental to section 102M
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision preventing an STB from doing under section 102M(1) anything which is specified, or is of a description specified, in the regulations.
(2) The Secretary of State may by regulations provide for the exercise by STBs of the power conferred by section 102M(1) to be subject to conditions, whether generally or in relation to doing anything specified, or of a description specified, in the regulations.
(3) Before making regulations under subsection (1) or (2) the Secretary of State must consult—
(a) such representatives of STBs,
(b) such representatives of local government, and
(c) such other persons (if any), as the Secretary of State considers appropriate.
(4) Subsection (3) does not apply to regulations under subsection (1) or
(2) which are made only for the purpose of amending earlier such regulations—
(a) so as to extend the earlier regulations, or any provision of the earlier regulations, to a particular STB or to STBs of a particular description, or
(b) so that the earlier regulations, or any provision of the earlier regulations, cease to apply to a particular STB or to STBs of a particular description.
102P Power of direction
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations confer on an STB a power to give directions to a constituent authority about the exercise of transport functions by the authority in the area of the STB.
(2) The power to give a direction by virtue of subsection (1) about the exercise of a function extends only so far as the exercise of the function is relevant to the implementation of the STB’s transport strategy.
(3) Regulations under this section conferring a power to direct may include provision—
(a) for the power to be given generally or subject to conditions or limitations;
(b) for the power to apply to all transport functions or only to those functions specified or described in the regulations;
(c) about the manner in which directions are to be given;
(d) about the consequences arising if there is a contravention of a direction.
(4) Provision under subsection (3)(d) may include provision enabling the STB—
(a) to take any steps it considers appropriate to reverse or modify the effect of a constituent authority exercising a transport function in contravention of the direction, and
(b) to recover any reasonable expenses incurred in taking those steps as a civil debt from the constituent authority.
Boundary and name changes
102Q Change to boundaries of an STB’s area
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations change the boundaries of the area of an STB by—
(a) adding the area of a relevant authority to an existing area of an STB, or
(b) removing the area of a constituent authority from an existing area of an STB.
(2) Regulations under this section may be made—
(a) only if the constituent authorities have together made a proposal to the Secretary of State for the boundaries to be changed in the manner that would be provided for in the regulations;
(b) in the case of regulations under subsection (1)(a), only if the relevant authority whose area would be added to the area of the STB joins in the making of the proposal;
(c) in the case of regulations under subsection (1)(b), only if the resulting area of the STB meets the condition in section 102E(4).
(3) Regulations under this section changing the boundaries of the area of an STB may be made only if the Secretary of State considers that paragraphs (a) and (b) of section 102F(1) would apply in relation to the area as varied by the regulations.
(4) Regulations under this section may be made only with the consent of—
(a) the STB, and
(b) in the case of regulations under subsection (1)(a), the relevant authority whose area would be added to the area of the STB.
102R Change of name
(1) An STB may change its name by a resolution in accordance with this section.
(2) The resolution must be considered at a meeting of the STB that is specially convened for the purpose.
(3) Particulars of the resolution must be included in the notice of the meeting.
(4) The resolution must be passed at the meeting by not less than twothirds of the members of the STB who vote on it.
(5) An STB which changes it name under this section must—
(a) send notice of the change to the Secretary of State, and
(b) publish the notice in such manner as the Secretary of State may direct.
(6) A change of name under this section does not affect the rights or obligations of the STB or any other person, or render defective any legal proceedings.
(7) Any legal proceedings may be commenced or continued as if there had been no change of name.
Supplementary
102S Incidental etc provision
(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make incidental, consequential, transitional or supplementary provision for the purposes of, or in consequence of, regulations under this Part or for giving full effect to such regulations.
(2) Regulations under this Part may make different provision for different STBs or otherwise for different purposes.
(3) The provision which may be included by virtue of this section in regulations includes provision for the transfer under the regulations of property, rights and liabilities.
(4) The provision which may be included by virtue of subsection (3) in regulations includes provision—
(a) for the creation or imposition by the Secretary of State of new rights or liabilities in respect of anything transferred under the regulations;
(b) for the management or custody of transferred property;
(c) for bodies to make agreements with respect to any property, income, rights, liabilities and expenses of, and any financial relations between, the parties to the agreement.
(5) The provision which may be included by virtue of this section in regulations includes provision amending, modifying, repealing or revoking any enactment, whenever passed or made.
(6) In this section “enactment” includes an enactment comprised in subordinate legislation (within the meaning of the Interpretation Act 1978).
102T Procedure for regulations under this Part
(1) Regulations under this Part must be made by statutory instrument.
(2) A statutory instrument containing regulations under this Part may not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(3) At the same time as laying a draft of a statutory instrument containing regulations under this Part before Parliament, the Secretary of State must lay before Parliament a report explaining the effect of the regulations and why the Secretary of State considers it appropriate to make the regulations.
(4) Subsections (2) and (3) do not apply to a statutory instrument that contains regulations only of the following kinds—
(a) regulations under section 102J that make provision under subsection (4) of that section for a function to be exercisable by an STB for a limited period of time;
(b) regulations under section 102J that make provision under subsection (5)(b) of that section;
(c) regulations under section 102K that make provision under subsection (4) of that section for a function to be exercisable by an STB for a limited period of time;
(d) regulations under section 102K that make provision under subsection (5)(b) of that section;
(e) regulations under section 102O(1) that make provision for the purpose mentioned in section 102O(4)(b);
(f) regulations under section 102O(2) that make provision for that purpose or for imposing conditions on the doing of things for a commercial purpose.
(5) A statutory instrument to which subsections (2) and (3) do not apply is subject to annulment by resolution of either House of Parliament.
(6) If a draft of regulations under this Part would, apart from this subsection, be treated for the purposes of the standing orders of either House of Parliament as a hybrid instrument, it is to proceed in that House as if it were not a hybrid instrument.
102U Interpretation
In this Part—
“combined authority” means a body established as a combined authority under section 103 of the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009;
“constituent authority”, in relation to an STB, has the meaning given by section 102F(4);
“ITA” means an Integrated Transport Authority for an integrated transport area in England;
“Passenger Transport Executive” means a body which is such an Executive for the purposes of Part 2 of the Transport Act 1968;
“relevant authority” has the meaning given by section 102E(5);
“STB” has the meaning given by section 102E(2);
“transport functions” means any statutory functions relating to transport;
“transport strategy” has the meaning given by section 102I(11);
“unitary district council” means a district council whose area is not part of the area of a county council.””

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, in speaking to Commons Amendment 53 I shall also speak to Amendments 77, 85, 86 and 87. In the summer 2015 Budget, my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer reaffirmed the Government’s commitment to the northern powerhouse, a fundamental part of our plan to deliver a healthy and balanced economy for working people across this United Kingdom. The provisions on sub-national transport bodies—STBs—we are debating today were introduced in the last Session and passed through the other place without amendment. I thank all Members and in particular my honourable friend Andrew Jones for that.

These provisions on STBs are a continuation of the revolution going on in the way we govern England. The Government are committed to devolve powers and budgets to boost local growth, which can be seen throughout this Bill. While we are investing record sums in transport across the country—in the north this amounts to £13 billion on transport in this Parliament —we have for far too long accepted that decision-making on that funding has to be made in Whitehall. We need greater local input from those who know their economies best if we want to transform growth in the north and throughout the country. Transport will make a significant difference to that transformation by reducing journey time between the great cities of the north, pooling their strengths and making them greater than the sum of their parts—in short, a northern powerhouse.

Transport for the North is already established and is the unified voice of transport in the north of England. We are working with TfN and other transport bodies on road and rail links in the north and on an integrated smart ticketing system akin to the Oyster card we have in London. I also welcome the recent appointments of John Cridland as chair and David Brown as CEO to drive forward progress.

My right honourable friend the Chancellor also announced extra funding for TfN in the summer but if we want to see long-term permanence and stability, TfN—and all other STBs—need to be put on a statutory footing. This new clause on sub-national transport bodies will do just that. It creates the legislative framework to allow the Government to set up the first STB, which will be Transport for the North. This will be done by secondary legislation, but other areas could come forward to propose that they are also created as an STB.

STBs will initially advise the Secretary of State for Transport on strategic transport schemes and investment priorities in their own area. The Secretary of State may grant individual STBs additional responsibilities around the decision-making and delivery of strategic transport schemes and significant cross-regional schemes such as the work TfN is already undertaking on smart ticketing. There is also the potential to assume more strategic transport responsibilities over time.

However, as I have already said, this clause goes further than TfN alone. It provides a way to create STBs across the whole of England, outside London, at the request of local areas. For example, noble Lords will know of the newly strengthened Midlands Connect Partnership, which brings together 26 local authorities and 11 local enterprise partnerships, working with national agencies and government to drive forward improved transport links across the Midlands to power the Midlands engine. Accordingly, it is necessary for TfN, Midlands Connect and all future STBs to be enshrined as statutory bodies with appropriate statutory powers, and I commend the amendment to the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Smith of Leigh]

My Lords, I also welcome these amendments, and I thank the Minister for the way that he has introduced them. Obviously, this is very important activity, and without statutory backing Transport for the North has already had a major in-fight over agreeing the northern franchises for the rail networks that affect all our northern counties.

In terms of reporting back, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, that in the process of franchising we in Greater Manchester have had regular reports from our delegates at Transport for the North. There is accountability for what goes on.

I will probably upset the Minister but, while I am on my feet, I will say that one of the great aspects of the deal for devolution in Greater Manchester was the prospect of franchising the buses, which of course account for the vast majority of transport movements in those areas that are involved. I recognise that that will come under separate legislation, a buses Bill, but we still await sight of that Bill and hope that it is not going to be too long.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions.

I want to pick up on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Smith, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Shipley. There is accountability, and that accountability is very much to the stakeholders that make up the particular STB. As for the limits or extension of these areas, that will very much be dependent on the local authorities themselves and the collaboration that takes place. The key point I emphasise is one of strategic decision-making, which is the intention behind the creation of such bodies, as we are already seeing with the creation of TfN. Indeed, the reason behind putting TfN on a statutory footing is that the very bodies that make it up have also requested this.

I will now pick up some of the questions raised by noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, also asked about annual reporting. The legislation makes it clear that STBs shall produce and publish their strategy and updates to that strategy. That can be seen with TfN, which produced its additional reports in March 2015 and has plans for annual updates, the next being in March 2016.

The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, asked about the extent to which different modes of transport are covered by STBs. The whole essence of sub-national transport bodies will be to cater for all modes of transport within a defined geography, including ports and airports. This can already be seen in the work of TfN, which has set out quite clearly its plans for all modes of transport, including ports and airports. I take on board totally the point the noble Lord made that this is not just about linking up rail and roads; it is about ensuring that, where there are ports and airports, these also form part of the strategic transport strategy for a given geographical region.

The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, also asked about the size of STBs. As I have already said, it is really up to the local areas to come forward with proposals; it is about bringing together local authorities. There may be some traditionally defined areas, but it is about how local authorities can come together and collaborate across traditional borders to ensure the best result for a particular region. In terms of the requirements, there must be two appropriate authorities to form an STB.

[Lord Beecham]

A particular authority or area might want to belong to two such networks. For example, one can see clearly that there is a case for the north-east and Cumbria coming together on the horizontal routes. Equally, Cumbria might want to go south towards my noble friend Lord Smith and vice versa. Is it possible to belong to two such networks?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is dependent on how the STB proposals come back. However, in practice, I cannot see a deterrent to that because this is about providing strategic links. I am sure all noble Lords will welcome a linking up between the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Smith, on strategic transport arrangements. The idea behind this is to empower local authorities to make the right decisions for their particular area.

As to specific local authorities belonging to two networks through legislation, what would happen in the scenario painted by the noble Lord is that if a local authority is already part of an STB, there is nothing stopping that local authority, after the creation of a new STB, being co-opted on to the other to ensure that that strategic link is operational.

The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to placing a limit on the period for regulations. The very nature of the temporary transfer of functions is that there will be a clearly limited interim time for this. If a temporary transfer of functions works well and there is evidence to show that there would be value in effecting a permanent transfer, there would be further regulations to ensure that that could take place.

I hope I have answered the questions that have been raised.

[Lord Smith of Leigh]

Could the Minister comment on the buses Bill and when we are likely to see it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I raised the issue of the buses Bill when I was being briefed for this Bill. I know that it is being drafted and we are looking for appropriate parliamentary time to ensure that we can introduce it at the earliest opportunity.

I again thank all noble Lords for their support for the amendment.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern]

I think new Section 102T deals with the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, about requiring affirmative resolution for the generality of regulations under this provision.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As ever, my noble and learned friend is correct.

Motion agreed.

Counterterrorism: Muslim Communities

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether, as part of their antiterrorism strategy, they will encourage leaders of the United Kingdom’s Muslim communities to identify, confront and expose their violent co-religionists.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome, acknowledge and indeed thank the many people who are already confronting extremism in this country. The Government are absolutely committed to strengthening our partnership with all those who want to see extremism defeated in all its ugly guises.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch (UKIP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. I suppose that it would be dangerous for our Muslim friends to fulfil this Question with the energy which many people would like. Does the noble Lord agree that our Muslim leaders also face the problem that there are more than 100 verses in the Koran which order violence towards non-Muslims and so give theological justification to the jihadists? What does the noble Lord have to say about those verses, not to mention the bellicose example of Muhammad himself, which all Muslims are supposed to follow and which therefore undermine the Government’s strategy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I can say clearly that I totally disagree with the noble Lord in his assertion about the holy scripture and the example of the holy Prophet of Islam. What is true, is fact and is real in this country is that Muslim contributions today, yesterday and for many decades—indeed, centuries—have been widely acknowledged as a positive contribution to the progress of this country, and long may it continue.

[Lord Morris of Handsworth (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the so-called co-religionists are to be found in nearly all communities, not just the Muslim community?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

What is important is that we must stand together and unite against all forms of extremism. I acknowledge that Islam is being challenged by those who seek to hijack a noble faith and misrepresent it. I commend the fact that we as a country—all communities and all faiths—come together in saying, “Not in our name”.

[The Lord Bishop of Peterborough]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a danger that asking questions in this way and hearing questions in the way that some might could demonise the Muslim community, the vast majority of whom are peace-loving and are as appalled by terrorist acts as the rest of us? Will the Minister agree that it would be far better to ask faith communities and others of good will to work together for social cohesion?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate is of course correct. It is the Government’s view and, indeed, the view of our country, that no one should be demonised. We celebrate the diversity of our country and the fact that we are a multifaith society, with everyone contributing. I acknowledge the fact that, yes, the Government are committed—as I believe all in this House are committed—to ensuring the strengthening of partnerships.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the last time the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, intervened on this subject, he circulated to some of us a piece of paper in which he claimed that the Prophet Muhammad renounced the verse in the Koran saying, “To each his own religion”. I checked this with an imam in London and found that what the noble Lord said was quite incorrect. Through the Minister, I extend an invitation to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, to come with me to the mosque I visited in north London recently where it was explained to me that, contrary to what he has said, the word “infidel” or “kafir” does not mean non-Muslims—Christians and Jews—but people who do not act according to God’s will and can apply to Muslims as well. Is it not absurd for the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, to set himself up as an authority on the Koran?

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I could not agree with my noble friend more. I also acknowledge receipt of the documents sent by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson. But I rely on the interpretation of God and his noble Prophet rather than, with respect, the interpretation of my faith by the noble Lord, Lord Pearson.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that much of the conflict in the Middle East and the radicalisation of young Muslims in this and other countries is due to the export of a cruel and medieval interpretation of Islam from Saudi Arabia that has been rightly criticised by Dr Shuja Shafi, the Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain? Should we not be doing much more to help people counter this extreme interpretation of their faith, which is doing incalculable harm to the image of Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord, and as the Government Minister responsible for countering extremism, no one is more committed to ensuring that we unite to face up to the hijacking of a noble faith.

[Lord Paddick (LD)]

My Lords, I was the police spokesman following the 7 July bombings in 2005. In a press conference, I said that as far as I was concerned, Islamic terrorism was a contradiction in terms. I went on to say that from my professional experience as a police officer, the UK was a much better and more law-abiding country for having strong Muslim communities. I stand by what I said then. Does the Minister agree with me?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with the noble Lord, and perhaps I may put this into context. It is why our Prime Minister said recently when referring to Daesh that it is neither Islamic nor is it a state. That underlines how we deal with those who seek to hijack the noble faith in this country.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, in November the Muslim Council of Britain took out an advert in the national press to underscore the united condemnation by Muslims of terrorism, especially after the Paris attacks. On 9 December thousands of Muslims took to the streets of London to participate in a peace rally, which received limited media coverage, presumably because such a story does not sell papers. Does the Minister think that all who are in a position to do so, whether they are individuals or organisations, have a responsibility to reflect in what they say and write the real abhorrence and rejection of terrorist activities by all key sections of our diverse nation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is not often that I have the opportunity to say this, but I totally agree with the noble Lord and I wish everyone a merry Christmas.

Railways: Suicides

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and remind the House of my railway interests declared in the register.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are fully supportive of initiatives which the rail industry is taking, led by Network Rail, in liaison with the Samaritans and other organisations, to reduce the number of suicides on the network. They are beginning to show results. The initiatives include measures to reduce the ease of access to platforms passed by fast trains and to train staff to intervene to help people near the railway who may be in a distressed state.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister will agree that it is impossible to exaggerate the distress and disruption caused by people taking their own lives on the railway to the bereaved families and friends, to station staff and passengers who may witness the event and to the train drivers affected, many of whom are so traumatised that they never drive again. British Transport Police tells me that fatality delays this year will amount to more than 455,000 minutes and that the number is rising. Does the Minister agree that the railway cannot tackle this problem on its own and that, while much is being done with bodies such as the Samaritans, which he mentioned, there needs to be a national campaign involving the Government, the civil police, mental health professionals, rail staff and the travelling public to identify people at risk and discourage them from harming themselves on our railways?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct to point out the challenges that we face on the railways in particular. Of course, any suicide is one too many. As he will be aware, the Government have been working very closely with the Samaritans and over the past 18 months have invested £1.2 million to finance suicide prevention initiatives. The newly formed suicide prevention duty holders group brings together the very multiagency partnership he talked about. There is more to be done, including bringing together those who are impacted. The noble Lord talked about the cost. The cost to the rail network and beyond to the economy is £60 million, but the loss of life is far too great. We need joint working, and the Government are moving forward on that agenda.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of a charity that deals with post-traumatic stress disorder among staff who witness these tragic events. The level of support offered to staff, who are often severely traumatised by the incidents they are called upon to witness, is pathetically low. Will the Minister approach the different unions and other actors to try to get a co-ordinated policy to help staff who are witnesses to overcome the problems they will often face as a result of these actions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend is aware of the Journey to Recovery initiative, which was aimed specifically at rail drivers going through trauma. That has now been extended to other staff, with Back on Track being a particular initiative. On the issue that my noble friend has raised, there is already positive joint working. Network Rail, for example, is working closely with trade unions in this respect to ensure that those who suffer trauma are, to quote the report, put “Back on Track” as soon as possible. As I have acknowledged, though, there is more work to be done.

[Baroness Hollins (CB)]

My Lords, suicide on the railways is a very public form of suicide. One of the risks of members of the public seeing a suicide is the possibility of copy-cats. As the rate is going up, I wondered whether there was any evidence of that happening. Given that suicidal thoughts are very common in the population at large, does the Minister consider that more could be done—for example, by the Samaritans—in advertising help on every single railway station to assist people who may be having suicidal thoughts at the time when they see such a death?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Part of the Government’s initiative is to work together with bodies such as the Samaritans on national public awareness campaigns. There are physical things that we have done: for example, dividers on platforms, which have resulted in a decline in numbers of attempts at stations where they have been deployed. However, the noble Baroness is quite correct: information to travellers, not just to staff, is an important part of this. She rightly points out that media coverage sometimes leads to copy-cat suicides, and we are working to ensure that that is kept to a minimum to discourage such practices from taking place.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the role of the British Transport Police is crucial in dealing with these very sad events, and there are other events that cause disruption to the railway that the British Transport Police is also very closely concerned with. I was therefore very sad to read last week stories about potential cuts to the British Transport Police budget next year. Are those stories true? Will funding to British Transport Police be cut next year? If so, by how much?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We work very closely across the board with the British Transport Police on this issue. The noble Baroness may well be aware that initiatives are being taken—right here in the capital, for example—to increase police patrolling to ensure that we minimise not just suicide prevention, as she points out, but also hate crime that takes place on our networks. We seek to minimise that and we work together with the police on ensuring this.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

The Minister has already made reference to dividers on platforms. If he is talking about the same thing that I am, he will know that on the Jubilee line extension from Westminster eastwards at stations below ground level there are barriers at the edge of the platforms that also have the effect of preventing people from jumping in front of an incoming train. Are the Government pressing for such barriers to be extended to more stations on the London Underground in a bid to reduce the number of suicide attempts?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to point out that those have proven to be successful prevention barriers. The prevention barriers that I was referring to, those within Network Rail stations, physically divide the platforms and manage commuter traffic. We are looking at ensuring that prevention measures can be accommodated where possible in existing stations to prevent suicides. As I said, one suicide is one too many.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, how many mainline stations have a chaplaincy service where priests and leaders of other faiths are available to talk to people who may be in such distress that they contemplate this awful final act?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

In response to my noble friend, we are already working closely with the Samaritans, which I have already alluded to and who are the key providers of this support both to staff and to the travelling public. A poster campaign underlining that has also been launched.

Airport Security

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 17th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government which airports used by flights to and from the United Kingdom have been the subject of a security review leading to enhanced security arrangements since the end of October.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, since the tragic loss of the Metrojet aircraft we have been urgently reviewing security at a number of airports with flights to the UK and we are working closely with the countries concerned to address any shortcomings that we identify. Noble Lords will of course understand that we do not comment in detail on security arrangements.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that response, and obviously I accept what he said about not revealing details of security arrangements. However, can he say whether these reviews that are carried out are related simply to whether required procedures and processes are in place or do they also look at whether in reality those procedures and processes are being thoroughly adhered to and properly carried out? Obviously, the effectiveness of security arrangements at airports is also dependent on the attitude and approach of the people responsible for applying and implementing them. Secondly, are these reviews of security arrangements at airports around the world, which the Government have said are conducted in conjunction with the sovereign authorities, done on a pre-announced basis as far as the airport is concerned or on an unannounced basis?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about the details of the checks. I assure him that we work very closely with all sovereign authorities on security and security arrangements across the board. He raised the question of culture and people, and that is an important element of our reviews of those countries. We work very closely with the authorities concerned because we are dealing with sovereign nations, which are primarily responsible for the security of their airports.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, Monarch Airlines and Thomson Airways have recently extended the cancellation of their flights until towards the end of January. Can the Minister give us an outline of the discussions that the Government are having with the UK airlines that would normally fly to Sharm el-Sheikh? Do the Government have any knowledge of when it is likely that flights of this nature will resume?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that we are working very closely with UK airlines. Indeed, I pay tribute to them for the extent to which they co-operated to ensure that more than 16,600 UK citizens left Sharm el-Sheikh efficiently and effectively over a small period of time. We continue to work with them. We are also ensuring in all respects that we work closely with the Egyptian authorities to resolve the security issues at Sharm el-Sheikh as soon as possible.

[Lord Geddes (Con)]

Can my noble friend assure the House that the review and the discussions that his department is having with airports in this country include the smaller regional airports, which have a reputation of being somewhat porous?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We have a very strong regime in terms of our security arrangements. The events at Sharm el-Sheikh raised issues on an international basis, but I assure my noble friend that we continue to review our arrangements not only internationally but, as he was right to refer to, domestically across the airport network in the UK.

[Lord Mawhinney (Con)]

My Lords, of course the Government are right not to share security information, but can my noble friend tell your Lordships what arrangements are in place to brief airlines that fly into international airports on any findings that might be helpful to them in determining whether they should continue those flights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises another important point about the relationship with airlines. I assure him that we work very closely with all international partners and, where we can, we share important information with the airlines. They play an important role in areas such as advance passenger information, which in the UK is also shared with, for example, the Border Force.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, does this scrutiny extend to private airports and heliports? I was looking at the Channel Islands, for example, as a place which, formally speaking, is within our borders. Some months ago I looked at the helicopters flown between Brecqhou and Monaco. I am not aware that the Guernsey police ever visit Brecqhou, for example, but when passengers arrive there—it may just be the Barclay brothers and nobody else—there are no border controls. Do we make sure that private flights are covered? A considerable number of these come in and out of the United Kingdom, both to the mainland and to the Crown dependencies.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about private flights. I assure him that security arrangements are in place at those airports. I will write to him on the specific airports that he mentioned.

[Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall (Lab)]

My Lords, with regard to the concentration of interest on Sharm el-Sheikh and on Egypt more widely, it was recently reported that the preliminary investigation into the incident that gave rise to the most recent security anxieties showed that it was unlikely that that incident was caused by a bomb on board the aircraft. Can the noble Lord give the House the latest information on the status of the investigation into that incident?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness is, I believe, referring to the recent reports of the provisional investigation by the Egyptian authorities. Certainly we are clear that the Russian authorities have retained their view that it was an explosive device, and our actions were based on our own assessment and the intelligence reports we had, to ensure that we took effective action to ensure the safety and security of UK citizens. We continue to monitor the situation and we will not restore flights until we are satisfied that new arrangements are in place.

[Lord Rosser]

I inquired whether the reviews of security arrangement at airports around the world, done in conjunction with the sovereign authorities, were done on a pre-announced basis as far as the airport itself is concerned or on an unannounced basis. I do not think that the Minister responded to that point.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

What I was alluding to is that we are dealing with sovereign authorities. Of course we will work in conjunction with how they see fit to monitor their airports. It would be inappropriate for a UK agency to demand access based on unannounced procedures that the sovereign authority had not agreed to.

Airport Capacity in London

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Spicer]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what estimate they have made of the last date on which the decision about where to build an additional runway for London could reasonably be made, in the light of their commitment to publish that decision this year.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, on 10 December, the Government accepted the Airports Commission’s case for expansion in the south-east. We agree with the commission’s shortlist of three options, all of which it concluded were viable. The Government will now conclude a package of further work by the summer and will ensure that the timetable for delivering additional capacity set out by the commission does not alter.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

My noble friend will be relieved to hear that I do not have a supplementary question for him. This is partly because I have run out of ideas for new ways of asking the same question but also because the Government are producing the same answers, which—I do not know how to put this tactfully—have a short shelf-life attached to them. I wish Heathrow Airport, the Government and your Lordships a very happy Christmas, and an even better new year.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It would be only right to return the seasonal greetings to my noble friend.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

I also wish everybody a happy Christmas. In the House of Commons on Monday, the Secretary of State said that the Government were still assessing all three airport extra capacity options identified by the Davies commission. He said:

“I hope very much that, by the summer, we will be able to tell the House which one carries the most favour with the Government”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/12/15; col. 1311.]

Subsequently, he said:

“I hope to come back to the House in the summer”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/12/15; col. 1317.]

However, in answer to another question, the Secretary of State said that,

“there will be a decision by summer next year”.—[Official Report, Commons, 14/12/15; col. 1313.]

Which of those statements by the Secretary of State is correct? Is it the ones that said the Government “hope” to make a decision by next summer or the one that said the Government “will” make a decision by next summer?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The world runs on hope in every respect. We will certainly come back in the summer, and being a person of the Muslim faith, I say, inshallah, I will be returning in the summer of 2016, God willing.

[Lord Walton of Detchant (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that regional airports in the United Kingdom such as Newcastle, which is expanding and becoming much busier, are expressing serious concern about the adverse effect on their activities of the lack of capacity in the south-east? Is the Minister absolutely confident that a new runway will be built, or is this beginning to look increasingly like a figment of the Government’s imagination?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government have made it very clear that we will expand south-east airport capacity. The noble Lord is right to point out that failing to address this will result in a loss of £30 billion to £45 billion to the wider economy. The Government are committed to expansion in the south-east: that decision was made clear on 10 December and we will be reporting back in the summer of next year on the final decision that will be taken on this issue.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the south-east of England has one-third of the UK population and two-thirds of the flights, and expanding Heathrow would exacerbate that issue. Some 28% of the people in Europe who suffer from aircraft noise are under Heathrow flight paths. Does the Minister still believe that this is a suitable location for airport expansion? Given that successive Governments have agonised over this for generations, does the Minister believe that they are still answering the right question?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Davies commission made clear three viable options, and the Government have also been clear that they are committed to expansion in the south-east. The noble Baroness raises environmental issues—noise and carbon. They are the very reasons that the Government are examining all three viable options against those criteria and the finalised air quality strategy.

[Lord Tebbit (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I do not blame him personally in any way for this affair? But when it comes to questions of noise, is he further aware that the first occasion on which I was a crewman flying a 707 out of Heathrow was in 1960—55 years, half a century, ago? How many of the people who are there complaining about the noise now have moved in under the shadow of the 707s and the other big jets? Can he persuade his colleagues to understand that if Heathrow is not expanded to take long-haul flights as a hub airport, the business and the jobs will go not to somewhere in the north of England but to Frankfurt, Paris and Schiphol?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I would say first to my noble friend that 50 years ago, I certainly was not under the flight path, but I am one of those who, through issues of birth, are under the flight path now. Nevertheless, my noble friend raises the important issue of the UK economy. Let me assure him that the Government are committed to ensuring that the right decision is taken on south-east airport expansion and that a major determinant of that is to ensure the continued competitiveness of the UK.

[Lord Clinton-Davis (Lab)]

The Minister is fast earning a reputation for escaping entirely from responsibility. Purely for political purposes, the Government have dithered and dithered. Other airports in Europe, as has already been said, thrive while British aviation disappears. Is it not more important than anything that while the Government adopt their present stance, the country suffers?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is for others to judge the noble Lord’s first comment, but the Government take their responsibility very seriously, and that is why they are taking their time to ensure that the right decision, a considered decision, is taken on which of the three viable options should be moved forward. The Davies commission reported that new expansion needs to happen by 2030 and I assure the noble Lord and all other noble Lords that whatever decision is taken will ensure that that timetable will be met.

Transport for London

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 14th December 2015 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport and Home Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, various government departments have regular meetings with representatives of Transport for London. The Secretary of State, along with other Ministers, meets the Mayor of London several times a year. My ministerial colleagues and I also have regular meetings with the commissioner and other senior staff at Transport for London, as do our officials.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

Given that smoking and the consumption of alcohol are now banned on the Tube, should not Transport for London follow the lead of some American cities, such as Washington DC, and consider banning the consumption of hot food on Tube trains? Many passengers in congested carriages find that very offensive; it creates litter and, when left lying around carriages, can create a health hazard. Will my noble friend the Minister raise this when he next meets Transport for London and suggest that it considers this proposal, and perhaps undertakes a passenger survey to find out what passengers would like?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important area of concern to many commuters across London. There are no current plans at TfL to introduce such a ban but there is a current policy, under the guise of Travel Better London, which helps Londoners to think about travel etiquette and seeks to address passenger behaviours that can lead to improvements in services. I will of course put on the agenda of our next meeting with the commissioner, which will happen shortly, the specific issue which my noble friend raises.

[Lord Rosser (Lab)]

My Lords, there is an advertisement from Transport for London and the Mayor of London on Westminster station which states that Transport for London does not make a profit because,

“we reinvest all our income to run and improve your services”.

Since Transport for London is directly responsible, through a subsidiary, for running the London Underground, would the Government, at their next meeting with its representatives, like to express their support for Transport for London and the Mayor of London for this approach that, as a train operator, TfL should reinvest all its income in running and improving the services that it operates?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We have wide-ranging discussions with Transport for London across a variety of issues. I will be pleased to discuss any matters that noble Lords wish to raise, put them on the agenda and report back. However, I would add that a great deal of investment goes into transport in London and that over the last 10 years, we have certainly seen great improvements.

[Lord Higgins (Con)]

My Lords, in view of the success of the conference on climate change over the weekend, will my noble friend have urgent discussions with Transport for London about the appalling increases in congestion and pollution caused by the introduction of bicycle lanes, which are in use in large numbers only in the peak period? Will he at least ensure that other traffic can use those lanes during the course of the day? In the present situation on Lower Thames Street, for example, they are likely to die from carbon monoxide or other poisoning from pollution any moment now.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think that all noble Lords would acknowledge the benefits of cycling across London. I stress that the Mayor of London has primary responsibility for planning in London, along with the air quality strategy. The introduction of cycle lanes is partly to encourage more sustainable forms of travel across the capital.

[Lord Tope (LD)]

My Lords, when the Minister raises the subject of smelly food at his next meeting with TfL, what will his answer be when TfL says to him that cutting the government revenue grant to TfL from £639 million this year to nothing at all in a little over two years’ time leaves it with no choice but to let more of its premises and underground stations? This will inevitably lead to the letting of more, not fewer, fast food outlets in underground stations and consequently more smelly food on tube trains, not less.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

What is smelly food to some may not be smelly to others, but let us not go into that particular issue. The important thing to remember is that there has been a tough spending round, but in our discussions London government has a substantial settlement for the next spending review period of £11 billion. We are working together to improve London’s quality of transport across the board.

[Lord Dubs (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that there is a Private Bill working its way through this House to do with, among other things, disposal of assets by Transport for London. When meeting Transport for London, will he ensure that it and the local authorities in which these developments will take place have a proper proportion of social housing coming out of them, not just housing for the very rich?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My list grows for my meeting with Transport for London. Of course I take anything I hear from noble Lords seriously and I will put it on the agenda and discuss it. The important thing to remember, however, is that the Government work hand in glove to ensure that, although there is delegation and devolution in London on issues of transport, we provide the best transport for the best city in the world.

[Lord Lawson of Blaby (Con)]

My Lords, we all know the Mayor of London’s addiction to cycling, but is my noble friend Lord Higgins not absolutely right that what is happening now has done more damage, and is doing more damage, to London than almost anything since the Blitz? Is it not also hugely age discriminatory? There is a huge section of the population of a certain age, well represented in this House—I declare an interest—for whom cycling is not a practical option.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I suggest to my noble friend that it is never too late to start.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, when the Minister meets Transport for London with his shopping list of requirements, could he also raise the issue of the growing number of hate crimes, particularly Islamophobic hate crimes, that are taking place on tubes and buses, particularly in London? There are reports of the driver, or whoever is responsible, doing absolutely nothing until passengers eventually intervene to try to stop these crimes. What responsibility does Transport for London have when it comes to these sorts of crimes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point. She knows I totally agree with her on the importance of this issue. All kinds of hate crime, whoever the perpetrator and whoever the victim, must be eradicated, including on our transport system here in London. Additional policing measures have been put in place to address the specific issue of hate crime. As the noble Baroness will also be aware, in terms of Islamophobia, anti-Muslim hatred will be a specifically recorded hate crime from April next year.