War Graves Week

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 14th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I thank those volunteers, but the hon. Gentleman has raised another interesting point. These are not just British casualties; throughout the United Kingdom, there are casualties from all nations that contributed to our efforts in both world wars.

As I have said, I am passionate about this subject. I think the two commissioners in the House will confirm that once you have been a commissioner, you have it in your blood. I know I am a pain when I go to a funeral or a wedding, because I always go around the cemetery to see whether there are any Commonwealth War Graves Commission sites. The commission has taken a great step forward in digitising information and giving visibility to the casualties who are buried not in large cemeteries, but on our doorstep.

Let me end by paying tribute not only to the commission’s current staff members, but to those who have gone before. They are loyal, dedicated individuals. Is this about glorifying war? No, it is not; it is about recognising the sacrifice that people made, and let us hope that we can continue to do that. It is poignant, especially given the war that is taking place in Europe, to recognise the sacrifice that was made on our behalf in the past so that we can enjoy our freedoms today.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

It is my great honour to acknowledge my hon. Friend’s intervention and to put on record our gratitude for his father’s heroism in action, for which he was posthumously awarded the Military Cross. The Secretary of State informs me that arrangements have been made so that my hon. Friend will be able to attend the commemoration event in Normandy next month, which will be a very fitting tribute to the memory of his late, gallant father.

My right hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) told a very moving story of sacrifice involving the 2nd Cheshire Regiment’s role in the invasion of Sicily, involving young officers Cox and Martin. He referred very poetically to “many kinds of sorrow” but, of course, none is so keen as a soldier’s for his mate. The House receives his remarks in the context of his own distinguished and gallant record. We are proud to have heard his reflections today. He spoke about the 2,135 Commonwealth war graves in the Catania cemetery, which indicates the sheer scale of loss and sacrifice.

That sentiment was reflected in the welcome remarks from the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), who spoke movingly about his grandfather’s service in, somewhat unexpectedly, but no less honourably, the Highlanders. The hon. Gentleman also spoke movingly about the reflections of Harry Patch, the last fighting Tommy, in explaining the human toll and the remarkable human stories behind all the statistics therein. He spoke movingly about the experiences of the football regiment and the story of McFadden and Jonas. He also talked about how we have a dwindling number of world war two veterans and of the world war two generation, and so the challenge remains for us to make commemoration relevant and urgent. Clearly, the outcome of the work of the CWGC does exactly that. The commemorations next month at Normandy will be a welcome focus, and I was grateful for his remarks.

Characteristically, my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (James Gray) made some cogent remarks. We pay tribute to his continued work to support veterans and the act of remembrance. He spoke about the important role of Royal Wootton Bassett, what a physical commemoration means to families of the fallen and the sheer moving experience of visiting CWGC cemeteries.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) spoke interestingly and movingly about a visit he made in 2005 to the El Alamein cemetery. I join him in that sentiment, as I have been there; the 7,240 graves are a remarkable sight against the backdrop of the north African desert. He made the good point that these places are important for not just the dead, but the living; the families and the survivors need the physical aspect of commemoration to help them deal with the grief. He gave us a moving story about what happened in the first world war to his great-uncle. He was commemorated on the Menin Gate and that was most welcome. I join my hon. Friend in sincerely thanking the commissioners and the staff of the CWGC for their work.

My hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Will Quince) gave an interesting insight into the effective campaign of General Jackson and others to ensure that the 6,000 graves of those fallen after 1945 are appropriately supported and maintained. My hon. Friend made a reference to the fact that he is on his way out of politics, which might give him an opportunity to expand and deepen his fledgling military career. His remarks today were very cogent and we are grateful for them, because Colchester has a very important place in our national defence.

My hon. Friend the Member for Woking (Mr Lord) described the amazing scale of Brookwood, a place I know well because it is near my constituency, and the sum of the 5,627 graves there. I am grateful to him for highlighting the importance of that historic location. The right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) referred to his time as a commissioner, for which we are most grateful. I was very pleased that he put on record the gratitude of this House for the amazing work over many, many years of His Royal Highness the Duke of Kent. The right hon. Gentleman made the good point that casualties are still being recovered to this day and that that presents a considerable challenge. He also made the moving point that the principle of equality in death is very important to the commission—it is one we all support. Whether or not he has a wedding to attend near Aldershot, he is very welcome to come to explore the nearly 1,000 war graves we have in Aldershot one weekend. They are maintained to a very high standard.

We have indeed seen the House at its best today, united, respectful and sincerely grateful to the CWGC and to the millions of our forebears who served and sacrificed in the 20th century so that we could be free in the 21st. The sheer scale of the commission’s undertaking to maintain and restore monuments and memories is immense, and its impact on every generation, including future generations to come, is of course priceless. It provides an appreciation of our history; a deep appreciation of our freedom and our democracy; and an appreciation of service and of all those who gave their lives, and all those who were prepared to do that, so that we, in this Chamber, could be free today. On behalf of the whole House, I am very grateful. We say thank you to all those involved for the work of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission and thank you to all those whom they help us to commemorate.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

This has been an excellent debate. It is sad and unfortunate that those who comment upon what goes on in this Chamber and the work that Members of Parliament do are, quite frankly, too lazy to report a debate like this, when the House is working together, across parties, in a very good cause. I suppose I am laying down a challenge to those who report the proceedings of this Chamber, to report this debate and give it the attention that it deserves, particularly in comparison to other times when the House is fuller but far less productive.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered War Graves Week.

UK Armed Forces

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

I do not think that we can commit to levels of public expenditure or tax cuts, for example, without being confident that the economy can support them in a prudent fashion—an entirely reasonable and rational approach. However, I totally agree with my right hon. Friend the Chair of the Defence Committee. We all recognise that we are living in a more dangerous world—the Secretary of State has alluded to the threats we face not just in Ukraine but in respect of other adversaries around the world—and I totally understand why there is the wider debate on what we spend, but we already have a significant budget, and we must ensure that it is spent well and delivers value for money. That is why a key priority for me is reform of our procurement system so that we can ensure that our armed forces can prioritise effectively. Ultimately, it is the capability that we have now that will determine our ability to warfight.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the SNP spokesman.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I congratulate the shadow Defence Secretary on securing the urgent question and join him and the Minister in remembering those on HMS Richmond.

On Friday, the Public Accounts Committee’s found that the

“MoD is increasingly reliant on the UK’s allies to protect our national interests. NATO membership deters hostility, but the report warns such deterrence can only be effective if our Armed Forces are credible.”

To paraphrase the report, given that many of our allies face similar capability challenges, is the Ministry of Defence developing mitigations for dealing with the risk of allied support being curtailed or withdrawn if, critically, there is a change of Administration in Washington come November?

--- Later in debate ---

[James Cartlidge]

We engaged with this issue in the hon. Gentleman’s Westminster Hall debate on accommodation, in which I announced our plans for Chicksands. I entirely accept that this is a matter on which there should be engagement with the local community, and that there will be a range of views. I emphasise that we have put an extra £400 million into accommodation, which has allowed us to deliver our winter plan highly effectively. There has been a massive increase in the number of properties in the defence estate benefiting from damp and mould packages, but also from new doors and so on, to deal with long-standing issues in the estate, and I am keen to do more.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Finally, I call Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his answers to the questions posed to him. There can be no doubt that the Government must do more to increase defence spending, given that a large portion of our defence budget has rightly been spent on assisting Ukraine. However, we must ensure that other issues are not left behind. Unfortunately, there was no mention in last week’s Budget of an additional funding increase for our armed forces. Will the Minister increase our defence budget, so that we can ensure that our actions speak louder than words, and so that promises are kept, and our armed forces can keep us safe?

Afghan Relocations: Special Forces

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 1st February 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

No, I am not going to share that detail with the House, because it is in absolutely nobody’s interests for the Taliban to know how we are doing that.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I think happy birthday is in order, Madam Deputy Speaker. If you are like me, you do not count the years, you just make the years count.

I thank the Minister for his very positive answers. I ask this question simply because I met a gentleman in Pakistan about 12 months ago on this issue. He worked for the British Army alongside those in the special forces, so it is wonderful news that special forces in Afghanistan will have their applications reviewed. I wholly welcome that but want yet again to highlight the need to do the right thing by others as well as those who put their lives on the line in Afghanistan as part of the rebuilding effort and who have found themselves hiding away, out of sight—in Pakistan, for example—because they are not yet safe. I ask the Minister for consideration to be given to reviews of applications for interpreters and those who provided sustained assistance to our forces and who live life in darkness and in fear.

Nuclear Defence Infrastructure: Parliamentary Scrutiny

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Now, now, now. We are not having any of that. That is not fair. The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes) is popular and it is very good that there are so many Members here to listen to him. We will tell him why later.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I am very grateful for the opportunity that Mr Speaker has given me to raise an issue that I think we can all agree deserves wider attention and scrutiny. I do not think I have ever done an Adjournment debate on a Wednesday—or one so well attended, I have to say—and I am glad to be doing so at a relatively decent hour, not least because I know something is happening afterwards in this very Chamber.

I want to start with an appeal to those on the Government Front Bench and to anyone else who might be thinking of intervening. It is clear that I am a member of the Scottish National party and that this is a debate that concerns the UK’s nuclear enterprise. On that level it might be fairly predictable, but I hope that in preparing for this debate the Minister left at home or in the Ministry of Defence all the customary stuff usually reserved for SNP Members discussing nuclear weapons in this place. It may be tempting to play to our bases and paint this debate as yet more—forgive me for saying it, Madam Deputy Speaker, so close to Burns night—haggis-munching, burst-bagpipe whingeing, but I hope we can all agree that the trigger for this debate was some very serious allegations from a senior official. People across these islands who live beside, or in the vicinity of, nuclear-regulated sites deserve to hear a response to those allegations. I am glad to see the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) in his place as well.

--- Later in debate ---

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Will my hon. Friend give way? [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Lady, but I must say to other Members present that it is simply rude to talk. If whispering has to be done, then whisper.

[Deidre Brock]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate on a crucial issue. He talks about secrecy. Does he know about the MOD’s response to my recent questions on safety at its nuclear bases? The response confirmed an alarming trend, with the number of incidents at Faslane and Coulport jumping by a third in 2022, and the figures for the start of 2023 suggesting further rises. Does he agree that surely we have a right, as Members of Parliament, to know why safety records are not improving, as well as the nature of these incidents and their effect on local residents and the environment?

--- Later in debate ---

[James Cartlidge]

I have enjoyed the fact that the hon. Lady has tabled a number of written questions on these matters. I have always answered them as transparently as possible, setting out the full facts, and will continue to do so. Indeed, the very point of being here is that we are transparent in Parliament about our deterrent. We engage fully with Parliament, including the Defence and Scottish Affairs Committees, and we will continue to do so. We publish transparency data for all major defence programmes annually, including nuclear infrastructure, and, in line with industry good practice, our nuclear sites have well-established and transparent systems for raising what are known in the industry as nuclear site event reports, about which the hon. Lady has asked a number of written questions. This open documentation of human error, procedural or documentation failings, and equipment issues provides the strongest illustration of our commitment to transparency. More importantly, it fosters a culture of continual improvement and enhances the rigour of our collective approach to safety.

The safety of our nuclear defence infrastructure is paramount. Our nuclear establishments fully adhere to current—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. I have said this before but everybody seems to think it is funny to ignore it. It is fine to whisper if you need to communicate with one another, but it is simply rude to talk at the top of your voice, so that I can hear what people are saying on the Back Benches but I cannot hear the Minister. It is simply discourteous.

[James Cartlidge]

I think they are very enthused, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Our nuclear establishments fully adhere to current regulatory and operational requirements. They are subject to a painstaking programme of maintenance by highly trained experts. To ensure their reliability and safety far into the future, we are carrying out a £1.4 billion upgrade of our nuclear facilities at HMNB Clyde, which will ensure they are ready to receive the next generation Dreadnought class of submarines. As colleagues would expect, all these improvements are being made in line with current and foreseeable future regulatory requirements.

To conclude, we cannot look after our nuclear infrastructure without highly trained people. To support our future submarine programmes, we are investing around £200 million in world-class training for our current and future submariners. The Government have robust maintenance programmes in place to deal with some of the challenges to non-nuclear infrastructure at HMNB Clyde. We will continue to do everything we can to ensure that our nuclear deterrent infrastructure both keeps us safe and continues to adhere to the most stringent safety and regulatory standards.

Question put and agreed to.

Middle East: UK Military Deployments

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 5th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his questions. I should just say that unarmed but not necessarily unmanned aircraft—initially, the Shadow R1 —are taking on the task of looking for the hostages.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the information flow; I can reassure the House that only the United Kingdom will have the ability to provide that information, and that is how we will ensure that it is used for the appropriate purposes. He asked about the number of hostages; the United Kingdom has not confirmed exact numbers, partly because it is still unclear whether some may have died in the original 7 October event or in subsequent events, and whether some may be being held. We do not want to cause additional stress, but we know that there are still British hostages being held.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about protecting the ships. They are, of course, extremely capable ships—the last ship to be deployed, HMS Diamond, is capable of looking after herself, one might say—and we are benefiting from a great deal of co-operation with allies in the region to assist with that force protection. The right hon. Gentleman also asked about British forces in the wider region who may be in, for example, Syria or Iraq. Again, we take their force protection very seriously. As the right hon. Gentleman will understand, I cannot go into operational specifics, but we keep it under constant review.

Lastly, the right hon. Gentleman asked about humanitarian aid. This country has provided £60 million-worth of additional aid made available for Palestinians, and four flights have taken off so far. Members on both sides of the House will realise that the problem is not just providing the aid but getting it into Gaza. The Rafah crossing presents a considerable barrier to that, for all sorts of security reasons. I am actively looking at different routes, and the right hon. Gentleman will understand that that is one of the reasons I am going to the region this week.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.

[Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)]

I welcome the Secretary of State’s answers, including his confirmation that, as has been reported, the Shadow R1 is being deployed. I note that the intention is to use a range of surveillance aircraft. Will the Secretary of State tell us what other assets he is intending to use? Given the significant tasking, the threats to shipping and the ongoing commitments to, for example, Operation Shader, will he comment on what is being deprioritised to allow this mission to take place? Finally, in view of the recent threats to the Rivet Joint aircraft—I know that there are defensive aid suites on board—will he confirm that due consideration is being given to the protection of crews, given all the likely threats in the area and the presence of Iran?

War in Ukraine

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Heappey]

It remains our firm expectation that Sweden will accede to NATO, and we continue to press all allies to ensure that that happens sooner rather than later. It is also of note—there has been a great deal of discussion about this in the Swedish media—that it is increasingly in Putin’s interests to style out some of the activities that have been happening in Sweden precisely to affront the sensibilities of some other NATO allies. It is important for all our eyes to be open to that possibility.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

That concludes proceedings on the urgent question. I will now pause for a moment to allow a change of dramatis personae before the statement.

Veterans Update

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

My hon. Friend is a good friend of mine, and I remember him making that brave decision. Many of us on this side of the House who know him well—and many on the other side—pay tribute not only to his decision to come out at that moment, but to his ongoing campaigning for LGBT people and, indeed, for all those across society who have had to make such difficult decisions in their lives. I can give him an assurance that we will absolutely hold to the spirit and the intention behind the recommendations, that we will do everything we can to implement them, and that only when we encounter difficult technical challenges will we seek another way of fulfilling the intention. All that will be done in a transparent manner, not behind closed doors. We will ensure that when we have a problem, we discuss it; and when there are two sides to the argument—as with the veterans badge—we will consult the community as closely as possible. I also ask Members to recognise that in the case of some of the recommendations there will be no perfect answer: some people within that community will have a different view, and we must find a way of accommodating that as well.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Scottish National party spokesman.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I hope you will indulge me for a moment, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I know that this may be the Secretary of State’s last time at the Dispatch Box in this role—let us see what the summer brings—and I have to say to him, as a former member of the Defence Committee, that I found him hard-working and determined. We might not have always agreed on a few things, but when it came to issues that I found particularly important as a member of that Committee, especially the High North and the north Atlantic, he always answered the questions in a way that the Committee wanted to hear. I commend him for his work in his current role, and you never know—we might see him back in Holyrood, where it all started.

I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his statement. I think it quite appropriate that this last appearance—possibly—at the Dispatch Box should be one in which he rights, as he said, a historic wrong. I also commend those who have played a part in bringing us to this point—I see Craig Jones and Caroline Paige in the Public Gallery. I commend them and everyone else who has worked for this so hard for so many years.

Those of us on these Benches welcome this statement. Being a member of the gay community has never been a barrier to martial accomplishment. Let me give a little history lesson: from Achilles to Frederick the Great, and from James VI to even William III, we should be clear that LGBT people have served with distinction at every level of the armed forces for as long as humanity has existed. I appreciate the Secretary of State’s candour about his own time in service. I also appreciate his clear use of the term “the LGBT community.” It is indeed welcome that his Department has not sought to play a part in other issues that are a distraction from the reality of the LGBT community, and I am extremely grateful for that.

While acknowledging the work that has brought us to where we are now, can I ask the Secretary of State what work his Department is doing not only to widen access for LGBT personnel, but to push back against the pernicious idea that LGBT inclusion is contrary to the interests of the armed forces and our national security? While we may want to talk about medals, which is great, perhaps we could hear something about pensions for the spouses of those who have not lived to see this point in time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Wallace]

The feeling of rejection that those men and women must have felt will stay with many of them all their lives, which is something we have to do our very best to help solve. It must have been awful for people to think that they were helping society, and society, at that time, telling them that they did not belong. Wherever they are, we should help to look after them and urge the regiments and the veterans associations—I am president of the Scots Guards Association in Lancashire—to reach out and ask them to rejoin the family if they feel excluded.

The tragedy of those who have taken their lives goes to the heart of the importance of the suicide strategy, which was raised at Prime Minister’s questions today. We must make sure that we are alert to the needs of those people who are taking their own lives and to any sign of rejection, and not just for the time that they are in the military.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

That concludes proceedings on the statement. The whole House appreciates the determination and sincerity with which the Secretary of State has come to the House today to make this statement himself. If this is his last appearance at the Dispatch Box, as he predicts it might be—one never knows—then the whole House will join me in wishing him all the very best.

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 13th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

If the hon. Member had been listening, he would know that, in our Defence Command Paper, we are investing in air defence, electronic warfare, signals intelligence and communications—all the things he has just reeled off—but maybe he did not bother to listen originally. [Interruption.] I think it is interesting that Labour Members are heckling. We have not heard about a single penny of their defence plans in the last few years. Even the Royal United Services Institute speech by the shadow Secretary of State himself could not put a finger on the money. First and foremost, we are investing in our defence, and we have had a record increase since 2020. That compares with the Labour Government record: in 1997, they inherited 2.7% of GDP, which continued to fall all the way through, and only at the very last minute, when they had a £36 billion black hole, did they try to rectify it.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.

[Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)]

I am conscious that there is a statement to follow, but may I just pause and say thank you to the Defence Secretary and his team for the tireless work they have done in trying to secure additional funding of £11 billion and an increase in defence spending of 2.5%? It was not to be, and our military will be affected by that, not least our land forces. However, I do welcome the AUKUS agreement, which will secure hundreds of highly skilled jobs up and down the country. Is any part of the £3 billion of additional funding for the nuclear enterprise part of the £10 billion reserve for Dreadnought, or is it ringfenced for the AUKUS procurement programme, and is any of the £5 billion coming through subject to VAT, which would of course mean that one fifth of it will go back to the Treasury?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Wallace]

As my hon. Friend will know, all Departments are within their current comprehensive spending agreement, and the next comprehensive spending review is due in 18 months to two years’ time. Although all Departments, including those of Defence, Transport, and Health and Social Care suffer from pressures with higher inflation, it is right to ensure that we live within the envelope and, where possible, seek relief for a range of challenges. That is what I have been seeking for the next two years with the Treasury. I have also said consistently that the most important thing is the headmark for the long-term direction of defence spending, so that it is no longer declining, as it has done for the past three decades, but is on an upward trajectory. Since 2020, it has been on that upward trajectory. This grant of extra money continues that momentum, which is incredibly important, and I hope that the headmark will soon be announced in detail.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

In November, the Defence Secretary told the Defence Committee that

“yes, the inflationary pressure on my budget for the next two years is about £8 billion”.

From the media briefing at the weekend, we know he has a welcome £5 billion earmarked for stockpiles and the UK’s nuclear programme, but the armed forces will see that funding as a defeat for the MOD in Government. There is no new money for pressures on the core defence budget or to help deal with capability gaps, or even to deal with that inflation. The National Audit Office has already said that the MOD cannot afford the capabilities needed in the 2021 integrated review, so how will the Secretary of State ensure that precisely the same does not happen again with today’s 2023 integrated review?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Wallace]

So what the National Audit Office says is not true, Madam Deputy Speaker—it made it up. It said that when the Department signed the contract for the aircraft carriers, it was aware that the overall defence budget was unaffordable. Labour Members were party to the crime at the time, but they will not come to the House now and be honest about their role in it and the things that need to be done to fix it in the future.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. We will not have interventions from people who are sitting down. There are plenty of opportunities to ask questions when you are standing up.

[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

Madam Deputy Speaker, may I say how nice it is to see you back in your place? It is a very great pleasure.

I commend my right hon. Friend the Defence Secretary and his excellent Front Bench team, because I know for a fact that they are fighting for every single penny they can get. However, as has been said, and I must agree, £5 billion is not sufficient to ensure that our core armed forces are properly equipped and prepared for—God forbid—something we all dread, as the world potentially totters towards world war three. What on earth is going through the minds of Treasury officials?

[Mr Wallace]

In defence of my colleagues in the Treasury, the Treasury is trying to balance an economic situation post covid that means we have to make sure that we cut our cloth and return to an economic credibility that is so important for growing our tax receipts and our income. One role I can play is to come to the House and be honest about the state of our armed forces. I can be honest about what caused the 30 years of challenge that both my hon. Friend and I experienced serving in the armed forces, and honest about what we can do to fix things. That is the first thing. The Defence Command Paper will ensure that we are very clear on where we will spend the money to make sure that the future is secure for the men and women of the armed forces.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesman.

[Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)]

On military personnel, what is the Secretary of State’s understanding of the recruitment crisis in defence, with the Army in particular and especially in the Royal Regiment of Scotland? The 4th Battalion the Highlanders satisfies almost 20% of its vacancies from the Commonwealth. Is it the poor service accommodation, mediocre pay, lack of career opportunities or substandard equipment that is driving young Scots away from a career in the British Army?

--- Later in debate ---

[James Heappey]

Absolutely. As the House might imagine, the UK is not alone in rediscovering the importance of stockpiles and strategic enablers over the last year. It is also not alone in finding out that industrial capacity cannot be turned on just like that, so working with allies around the alliance, both through the alliance itself and bilaterally, is clearly a very attractive option.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

In this weekend’s newspapers, a senior British military officer raised doubts about whether the UK could still claim to be a leading NATO member, because of the hollowing out of the Army’s war-fighting capabilities. The Minister has so far evaded the question, but with today’s funding announcement limited to nuclear enterprise and stockpiles, can he confirm whether it is still his Department’s policy to cut troop numbers by 10%, to cut the reserves and to provide no additional funding to plug the gaps in Britain’s war-fighting capability?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Murrison]

I look forward to seeing the hon. Gentleman and his co-chairs later this week, I think, when we can discuss the matter in some depth. I am absolutely sympathetic to the notion that we need to do more for veterans, of course, which is one reason why I have instituted the review to which I have referred. We need to be consciously aware of the lived experience in each one of the four nations of this country.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)]

A review of veteran welfare services is long overdue, but I might remind the Minister that it is his Government who have been responsible for worsening veterans services over the past 13 years. Veterans’ mental health waiting times are a week longer than last year, veterans are having to rely on charitable support just to get by, and veteran ID cards are nowhere to be seen for many. Action is needed now to fix these failures, so will the Minister tell the House when we can expect the review to be completed and its findings to be published?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Wallace]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who served with me in the Department. I miss his time in the Department. One of the biggest drivers of cost overruns is a decision by the Government of the day to defer decisions about whether they should cut or delete something. Deferring the aircraft carrier under the Labour Government cost £1 billion. Deferring the F-35 buy under this Government cost about £500 million. If we defer things, they cost more in the long run. That is always the battle that the MOD has with the Treasury and others. That is one of the fundamental challenges and one of the cost drivers. However, many other projects are delivered on time and successfully and our men and women in the armed forces have some of the world-leading equipment they need to do their job.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister, Chris Evans.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I join the other voices welcoming you back to your position, Madam Deputy Speaker? I think I speak on behalf of everyone when I say that the House has missed your ability to turn people to stone with just a few words when they fall foul of the rules in this place.

Much of the innovation in the defence industry comes from the small and medium-sized enterprise sector. However, many SMEs tell me that there are real barriers to entry and to gaining access to Government contracts, and that when they do gain that access, they find that some primes are slow to pay, especially when projects are delayed. This leaves them demotivated and demoralised and with a poor experience of working with the Ministry of Defence. How will the Secretary of State ensure that SMEs have better access and are encouraged to be involved in a thriving British defence industry?

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[Mr Wallace]

I completely concur with my right hon. Friend. Defence is not a discretionary spend and not an add-on; it is a core function of any state and especially of this Government. I have been very grateful since 2020 that we have turned the corner on this and started to rebuild that momentum. The extra money that I have got for this week is continuing that momentum, but he is right to say that the important thing here is that deterrence is cheaper than having to go to fight the war if it goes wrong, as we see when we look at the cost to the people of Ukraine and to their economy. We need to make people change this culture that we have got used to since probably the early 1990s where somehow defence is discretionary—it is not. I am pleased that the Prime Minister recognises that, as he did when he was Chancellor in 2020, and we need to continue on that trajectory.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Secretary of State.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The House will be thankful and grateful to the Defence Secretary for updating it on the latest Op Shader activity. If there are any questions that cannot be raised this afternoon, we will return to them. On tonight’s AUKUS announcement in San Diego, does the Defence Secretary recognise that this has Labour’s fullest support? We want Britain to play the biggest possible role in building the new Australian submarines. But beyond the subs, how will he develop the pillar 2 collaboration on artificial intelligence, cyber and hypersonic missiles?

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[Mr Wallace]

My hon. Friend is incredibly right to point out how important France is to us. It is our main partner in Europe. It has similar-sized armed forces, with a similar expeditionary status and ambition. I speak to my colleague almost every two weeks—sometimes every week. I spoke to him twice last week, including my visit at the beginning of the week. A partnership on which we worked was more of the CJEF—the Combined Joint Expeditionary Force—where we work with them, training and exercising together; there is more work on complex weapons through MBDA, which is a great international consortium with factories in Bolton and Stevenage; and we are working together to make sure that we have the same requirements in shared operations, where we can work together in areas such as West Africa, where British, French and European interests are under threat from the likes of Wagner.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving such thorough answers, which I am sure the House appreciates, but I ask him to be a little quicker, because it would be good if we managed to get everybody in. I call Ruth Jones.

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

T4. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is good to see you back in your rightful place.Labour’s dossier of waste in the MOD has found that at least £15 billion of taxpayers’ money has been wasted since 2010, so can the Minister explain to people in my constituency of Newport West why this Tory Government have failed to get a grip of the defence procurement process and have failed to secure value for money for the taxes that they pay?

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[Mr Wallace]

As a Tory, you think about resigning most of the time—over the years. I am interested in trying to deliver for the men and women of our armed forces. I went into politics because the men and women of the armed forces needed and deserved better, and I am determined to try to stick that through. But I am also worried about the direction of threat for this country and for the world: not only what we have seen in China, as I think has been quoted—equipping for war, as they announced last week—but we have seen 83.4% enriched uranium being discovered, as the International Energy Agency has published in its report. That is weeks away from 90%, weapons-grade, should that be a decision. I have seen a growing problem with Russia and its violent extremism spreading across Africa. The threat is going up across the world, and we are more anxious and more unstable. I think that means long-term investment from whoever the Governments are over the next 10 to 15 years.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call Flick Drummond to ask the final question.

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con)]

Thank you very much, Madam Deputy Speaker; it is lovely to see you back. As a former chair of the south-east region for the Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees, I have seen at first hand the long shelves at Norcross where Veterans UK is based. Can the Minister assure me that the digitalisation of veterans’ records will proceed quickly, so that veterans can get quick decisions on their welfare and their welfare claims?

Afghanistan: Independent Inquiry

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 15th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dr Murrison]

The hon. Gentleman has hit the nail on the head. There is that commitment right at the very top of our armed forces that we should get this right and that we should learn any lessons that need to be learned. I can give him that commitment. I entirely understand the point that he has made and the experience that he relates.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

And finally—as I have already said twice this morning—Jim Shannon.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I do not mind being last in any debate; I am just very pleased to be given the opportunity to ask a question. The Minister, I think, has genuinely tried to answer the questions sensitively. With that in mind, will he outline the steps that are in place to offer support to any personnel under investigation, as similar proceedings that I and other Members in the Chamber are aware of in Northern Ireland have seen many innocent soldiers turning to addiction as a result of trauma and stress—I am aware of those cases personally. Will he confirm that innocent until proven guilty remains the standard for any investigation?

Ukraine

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 14th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for giving way so early in his speech. My constituent offered to host a Ukrainian family under the Homes for Ukraine scheme, so it is unacceptable that, three months later, that Ukrainian family are still in Turkey waiting to have their application processed by the Home Office. Will he speak to his colleagues in the Home Office about looking at that case? I am sure that is not the only one in which the Home Office is taking a long time to process refugees’ applications—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. That is a very long intervention. If the hon. Lady wants to make a speech, she has every opportunity to do so.

[James Heappey]

In my experience, applications from constituents have been dealt with—after an initial run of concern—reasonably well. The hon. Lady has raised the point, however, and I will make sure to draw the attention of Home Office Ministers to the record of this debate, so that they can get in touch to discuss whatever concerns she has on behalf of her constituents.

Since the start of the invasion, Russia has shown scant regard for human life, but since 31 October, it has sought to deliberately target civilians. Let us be clear: there is no military purpose in launching missile strikes at hydroelectric dams or in targeting the six-reactor civilian Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, which is the largest of its kind in Europe. Indeed, this latest escalation has only had a minor military effect. The reality is that such attacks are only a further illustration of Russian weakness. We know that its forces are being pushed back, we know it has lost more than 25,000 soldiers, with many more injured, and we know its capability is vanishing fast, with almost 3,000 tanks, 4,000 smaller vehicles and more than 5,500 armed troop carriers wiped out.

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[Mr Djanogly]

I accept that it is a subject we could go into in some degree, but I would make the point that of those Russians who have been leaving Russia and going to places like Armenia, Georgia or the more than 250,000 who have gone to Turkey, it is by no means proven that they are anti-Putin. In fact, a lot of research says they are going to those countries because either they want to pursue their business activities, which sanctions prevent, or they do not want to be called up on the reserve list, not because they do not like President Putin.

What I am suggesting is that at some point citizens and leaders need to take collective responsibility for the actions of the state and the armed forces that operate in their name. For Russians, I would argue that that time has long passed. If we agree that there should be collective responsibility, we can make the moral case for collective sanctions—economic and travel. Travel restrictions, like those implemented by six EU states, are a more practical way of reinforcing the message of collective responsibility than economic sanctions, which mainly apply only to wealthier people.

As the situation stands, at the end of the war, whenever that may be or indeed before, assets that have been frozen, across the west and other areas of the globe, will be reclaimed by their owners, including here in the United Kingdom. The public, including many constituents in Huntingdon who I have corresponded with about the situation in Ukraine, naturally assume that a frozen superyacht owned by a sanctioned individual will be sold, with the proceeds used for reconstruction. We are talking about some £18 billion of frozen assets, not including real estate, in the UK alone. That is not, alas, currently the case. If the situation is not remedied, an embarrassing political situation, not to mention a morally dubious one, beckons.

Ministers should be prepared to consider, working with our allies, how frozen assets can be legally seized, sold and the revenue put to work for Ukraine’s rebuilding. The World Bank’s assessment made in September is that Ukraine will need $349 billion for recovery and reconstruction. It is worth saying that it is not just a question of law changes, but adopting a more aggressive attitude within the existing system. For instance, when the FBI boarded Mr Kerimov’s yacht Amadea in Fiji, it looks like the United States used the oligarch’s maintenance of the yacht as a criminal breach of sanctions, thereby allowing confiscation. We could and should be more assertive than we are.

As for possible law changes to facilitate confiscation, the first is a revisiting of the Trading with the Enemy Act 1939. During the second world war, that Act allowed the Government of the day to confiscate assets owned by residents of enemy countries in British territories. It focuses squarely on the assets of any person or organisation of countries with which the United Kingdom is at war. Thankfully, there has not been much cause to review it since 1945. An amendment to the definition of war, however, could provide a valuable basis for considering how Russian assets could be seized for the benefit of Ukraine and its reconstruction.

Secondly, Canada’s Budget Implementation Act 2022, which was passed in June, includes amendments that allow for the forfeiture of property that is subject to a seizure or restraint order under the Special Economic Measures Act 1992 and the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act (Sergei Magnitsky Law) 2017. That is done under both regimes using forfeiture orders, allowing the relevant Canadian Government Minister to apply to a court to forfeit assets that have already been seized or frozen. A number of safeguards are rightly built into the legislation. For instance, any person who appears to have an interest in the property may be heard by the relevant court.

A further possible avenue that I wish to highlight is one proposed by the Washington DC-based New Lines Institute for Strategy and Policy, which formulated a multilateral action model on reparations. In the model, the institute draws 13 convincing conclusions that lay the basis for an international, effective and legal reparations and compensation scheme. The model builds on the relatively recent and practical example of the Kuwait compensation fund, which, together with the UN compensation commission, paid some $52 billion in compensation to 1.5 million claimants over 30 years following the Iraqi invasion in 1990. The establishment of the fund and commission was possible only due to the agreement of those nations with a permanent seat at the UN Security Council. Unfortunately, as Russia is an aggressor in the case of Ukraine, that exact road map cannot be followed. The institute therefore makes the argument for working through the UN General Assembly rather than the Security Council.

The avenues that I have highlighted are but a number that are worthy of wider consideration—there are others. It is crucial, however, that the conversation surrounding compensation and reparations now begins in earnest, because just to continue saying, “This is only Putin’s war” is no longer relevant or morally sustainable.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Scottish National party spokesman, Martin Docherty-Hughes.