Automated Vehicles Bill [Lords]

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 1st May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Consultation with the Information Commissioner’s Office in relation to personal data—

“Before making regulations under section 42 of this Act (Protection of information), or any other regulations or requirements in relation to the provision of personal data in automated vehicles, the Secretary of State must consult the Information Commissioner’s Office.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to consult the ICO before making regulations in relation to the provision of personal data relevant to automated vehicles.

New clause 3—Establishment of an Advisory Council—

“(1) The Secretary of State must, within six months of the passing of this Act, establish a council to advise on the implementation of this Act, with a focus on learning lessons from any accidents involving automated vehicles.

(2) The Advisory Council must include representatives from—

(a) consumer groups;

(b) organisations representing drivers;

(c) road safety experts;

(d) relevant businesses such as automobile manufacturers, vehicle insurance providers and providers of delivery and public transport services;

(e) trade unions;

(f) the police and other emergency services, including Scottish and Welsh emergency services;

(g) highway authorities, including Scottish and Welsh highway authorities;

(h) groups representing people with disabilities;

(i) groups representing other road users, including pedestrians and cyclists; and

(j) groups representing the interests of relevant employees including delivery providers, those involved of likely to be involved in the manufacture of automated vehicles, emergency service workers, and public transport workers.

(3) The Secretary of State must designate a relevant officer of the Department to send reports to the Advisory Council on the roll out of self driving vehicles and any issues of public policy that arise.

(4) The Advisory Council must include nominated representatives of the Scottish Government and the Welsh Government.

(5) The Advisory Council must report regularly to—

(a) Parliament,

(b) the Scottish Parliament,

(c) Senedd Cymru

on the advice it has provided, and any related matters relevant to the roll out of self driving vehicles and associated public policy.”

New clause 4—Accessibility information for passengers in automated vehicles—

“After section 181D of the Equality Act 2010, insert—

‘Chapter 2B

Automated vehicles providing automated passenger services

181E Information for passengers in automated passenger services

(1) The Secretary of State may, for the purpose of facilitating travel by disabled persons, make regulations requiring providers or operators of automated passenger services to make available information about a service to persons travelling on the service.

(2) The regulations may make provision about—

(a) the descriptions of information that are to be made available;

(b) how information is to be made available.

(3) The regulations may, in particular, require a provider or operator of an automated passenger service to make available information of a prescribed description about—

(a) the name or other designation of the service;

(b) the direction of travel;

(c) stopping places;

(d) diversions;

(e) connecting local services.

(4) The regulations may, in particular—

(a) specify when information of a prescribed description is to be made available;

(b) specify how information of a prescribed description is to be made available, including requiring information to be both announced and displayed;

(c) specify standards for the provision of information, including standards based on an announcement being audible or a display being visible to a person of a prescribed description in a prescribed location;

(d) specify forms of communication that are not to be regarded as satisfying a requirement to make information available.

(5) Regulations under this section may make different provision—

(a) as respects different descriptions of vehicle;

(b) as respects the same description of vehicle in different circumstances.

(6) Before making regulations under this section, the Secretary of State must consult—

(a) the Welsh Ministers;

(b) the Scottish Ministers.’”

This new clause mirrors existing provisions in the Equality Act 2010 relating to the provision of information in accessible formats to bus passengers and applies them to automated passenger services.

New clause 5—Publication of list of information to be provided—

“(1) The Secretary of State must, by regulations, make provision for the publication of a list detailing—

(a) the information related to the data for authorisation of automated vehicles which must be provided;

(b) the parties by whom such information must be provided;

(c) the parties to whom such information must be provided; and

(d) the purposes for which the information must be provided.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) must provide for the content of the list to be subject to public consultation.”

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to publish a list of information which is to be provided to and by certain parties on the operation of authorised automated vehicles, and to hold a public consultation on the list.

New clause 6—Liability of insurers—

“Section 2 of the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018 (liability of insurers etc where accident caused by automated vehicle) is amended as follows—

(a) in subsection (1)(a), leave out “when driving itself”;

(b) in subsection (2)(a), leave out “when driving itself”.”

This new clause would remove the need for people to have to prove that an automated vehicle was “driving itself” if they make a legal claim for compensation under Section 2 of the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018.

Amendment 8, in clause 6, page 5, line 10, at end insert—

“(6) A person may not be an authorised self-driving entity unless they meet the following requirements—

(a) they have obtained a certificate of compliance with data protection legislation from the Information Commissioner’s Office for their policy in regard to the handling of personal data,

(b) their policy in regard to the handling of personal data clearly outlines who has ownership of any personal data collected, including after the ownership of a vehicle has ended, and

(c) they are a signatory to an industry code of conduct under the UK General Data Protection Regulation.”

This amendment seeks to probe a number of concerns around data protection and ownership and seeks to prevent authorisation of companies as self-driving entities unless robust personal data practices are in place.

Government amendments 1 and 2.

Amendment 6, in clause 50, page 33, line 22, at end insert—

“(4) The Secretary of State must obtain and lay before Parliament the written consent of the Scottish Government to make regulations under this section which amend—

(a) an Act of the Scottish Parliament,

(b) any instrument made under an Act of the Scottish Parliament.

(5) The Secretary of State must obtain and lay before Parliament the written consent of the Welsh Government to make regulations under this section which amend—

(a) an Act or Measure of Senedd Cymru,

(b) any instrument made under an Act or Measure of Senedd Cymru.”

This amendment requires the Secretary of State to obtain the consent of devolved governments before exercising the Clause 50 power in relation to devolved legislation.

Amendment 7, page 33, line 22, at end insert—

“(4) The Secretary of State must consult the Scottish Government before making regulations under this section which amend—

(a) an Act of the Scottish Parliament,

(b) any instrument made under an Act of the Scottish Parliament.

(5) The Secretary of State must consult the Welsh Government before making regulations under this section which amend—

(a) an Act or Measure of Senedd Cymru,

(b) any instrument made under an Act or Measure of Senedd Cymru.”

This amendment requires the Secretary of State to consult the devolved governments before exercising the Clause 50 power in relation to devolved legislation.

Government amendments 3 to 5.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I have tabled three amendments that seek to strengthen the provisions made for data protection in the Bill. New clause 1 would require the Secretary of State to report to Parliament on the collection of personal data from automated vehicles within one year of the day on which the Act is passed and every year thereafter. This report must cover

“levels of compliance with data protection legislation within the automated motor industry,…instances where the Secretary of State has made regulations under section 42(3) of this Act…and the impact of those regulations on personal data protection, and…any significant trends in the collection of personal data and whether further action is needed to regulate the collection of personal data.”

For sustained public confidence in automated vehicles and the data protection issues that arise, it is important that we have this continued monitoring and reporting. With a new technology, it is inevitable that new issues will arise over time, particularly as automated vehicles learn and change their behaviour accordingly. The reporting is necessary to keep the regulations on data protection under review as the technology develops. The Government must give further assurances in the Bill that people’s personal data will be protected before this Bill becomes law and commit to the annual reporting set out in this new clause.

This Bill would also be strengthened by new clause 2, which would require the Secretary of State to consult the Information Commissioner’s Office before making regulations in relation to the provision of personal data relevant to automated vehicles. As I have mentioned, new clause 1 would maintain monitoring of the provisions made for data protection, and new clause 2 would make this monitoring and reporting process easier, as advice can be taken from the ICO rather than using parliamentary time. Again, this will instil public confidence in the legislation as the advice will come from an independent body.

In order to operate, automated vehicles must be able to collect data, and much of this data will be personal. The information collected will help to make AVs safer as the system learns more about the road and those using it. Strengthening the process of how any changes to future protections are made will again assure the public that their personal data will be secure. Further assurances would be given by amendment 8, which seeks to probe a number of concerns about data protection and ownership, and seeks to prevent the authorisation of companies as self-driving entities unless robust data practices are in place. This amendment would ensure that a person may not be an authorised self-driving entity unless they meet the following requirements:

“they have obtained a certificate of compliance with data protection legislation from the Information Commissioner’s Office for their policy in regard to the handling of personal data,…their policy in regard to the handling of personal data clearly outlines who has ownership of any personal data collected, including after the ownership of a vehicle has ended, and…they are a signatory to an industry code of conduct under the UK General Data Protection Regulation.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)]

I rise in support of new clauses 1 and 3, which are based on measures that we tabled in Committee. I will also speak to amendments 6 and 7 that stand in my name and those of colleagues in Plaid Cymru, but I will not detain the House too long as it is clear that there is broad agreement on the wider principles of the Bill and the implications of the details in it, notwithstanding the amendments. As a member of the Transport Committee, it has been clear to me for some time that this framework legislation is required. By and large the Government have done a good job, with the sector largely content and no real opposition in this place to the vast majority of the Bill—[Interruption.] Okay, I will change that to “a decent job”; the Minister was too grateful.

That said, I must return to the issues around clause 50, which gives the Secretary of State power to legislate on devolved matters. That may not be the Bill’s intention, but the possibility remains a concern. I am grateful to the Minister for meeting me to discuss the problems with clause 50. In the end, the meeting came after Committee stage had concluded. That was disappointing, but it was a reflection of the wild agreement and consent on all sides for the vast majority of the Bill, resulting in an extremely swift conclusion to the Committee. The Scottish Government and their Ministers and officials have been engaged with the UK Government and their Ministers and officials on at least two occasions to discuss the implications for devolution of clause 50, and the proper remit of both Governments. In Committee, the Minister was forthcoming about discussing matters further with the Scottish Government, and I thank him for that. I believe those discussions have taken place.

It would be helpful if the Minister gave a commitment on the record on the Floor of the House that the Scottish and Welsh Governments will be consulted fully before the relevant powers in clause 50 are used by the Secretary of State. That being the case, would it not make more sense for the Government to accept amendment 7, because that is all it seeks? The fact remains that it would be infinitely preferable to have a statutory basis for the changes that the UK Government propose to make, and one that respects and acknowledges the legal framework that exists under devolution.

In Committee, the Minister maintained the line that the legal advice he and his Government have received indicates that these matters are all reserved, but the Scottish Government are clear that their similar advice indicates that the matters are devolved. My amendment would simply reflect the legal position as understood by the Scottish Government and outlined by the Cabinet Secretary for Transport at the Scottish Parliament’s Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee last month. She said that

“things that relate to offences under devolved legislation and offences that would be part of devolved areas, these are the areas that the provision would allow the UK Government to legislate on or make provision for in the future...we think it’s a genuine issue of concern.”

In the same session, George Henry, national operations manager for road safety policy and education for Transport Scotland, said:

“I will just try to provide an explanation or an example. There will be devolved legislation that has been brought in either by roads authorities or even through the Scottish Parliament that clause 50 allows the Secretary of State to change. That is the reason why we are not supportive of that. This Parliament—”

that is the Scottish Parliament—

“could make a decision to implement a measure for good reasons—such as a low-emission zone in an area—that could potentially be changed through clause 50.”

Whether or not that is the intention, it gives the Secretary of State the power to do that.

I hope it is clear to the UK Government that this is not an issue of confected conflict—something we are often falsely accused of—and there is clearly a desire to make the Bill work. Equally, however, we need it to work for everyone, including the devolved Administrations. As I highlighted in Committee, if the Government’s objective is to ensure complete alignment between Scottish and English traffic laws, that ship sailed a long time ago. We have a different speed limit regime, different drink-driving laws, and a different approach to road traffic regulation in general. Wales, too, has indicated different priorities to England by, at least initially, rolling out a national 20 mph speed limit. Clearly there should be consistency across the island, where appropriate, about the basic framework under which automated vehicles will operate, and the devolved Administrations have worked with their UK counterparts to make that happen. However, that cannot be allowed to undermine the devolved position with regard to enforcement of the law where the Bill will affect devolved law.

The Minister has been forthcoming with me, including in Committee, about his commitment to constructive discussion with the devolved Administrations, and I welcome that again. However, with the greatest of respect for him, in around six months we are expecting a change of Government and he will likely no longer be there, and whatever pledges or commitments have been made cannot bind his successors. We need a commitment in legislation that it would take an Act in this place to amend or scrap.

Amendment 6 would ensure that where devolved competences, such as those referred to in clause 50, are at stake, the devolved Parliaments are guaranteed their role as the providers or otherwise of legislative consent for this Parliament to legislate on their behalf, as has been the accepted norm for devolved matters under the Sewel convention for nearly 25 years.

Amendment 7 would in essence codify the pledges made by the Minister in Committee about consulting the Scottish Government. That is good, and I wait to hear his response to the debate. However, I believe a better solution with respect to devolution is amendment 6, which would require a legislative consent motion to be passed by the Scottish Parliament, and indeed the Welsh Senedd, before a UK Minister could act, rather than just a consultation.

I do not think that is particularly controversial. If there are such disparate views from legal advisers about where the line of devolved powers lies, surely the UK Government, as a self-proclaimed champion of devolution, would be happy to codify exactly where that line lies, and guarantee the Scottish Government and Parliament, of whatever political hue, the right to determine their own laws and regulations around automated vehicles now and in the future. I will wait to see what representations the Minister makes in his remarks before deciding whether to push amendment 6 or 7 to the vote.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)]

Labour has tabled four amendments at this stage of proceedings to build on the work in Committee. The context of the amendments is that the Bill follows four years of work by the Law Commission, which included three public consultations, and the commission’s recommendations represent one of the most thorough pieces of work that it has ever carried out.

The Bill builds on and provides further clarity to the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018, which originally set out the insurance framework for automated vehicles. It was the first piece of legislation to set out an insurance framework for the operation of automated vehicles.

The Transport Committee published a report on self-driving vehicles in 2023, and its recommendations included a new legal framework in primary legislation. The development of automated vehicles has a number of potential benefits, and after losing our place as a leader in the development of the technology, the Bill can play its part in recovering Britain’s international position and establishing one of the most robust frameworks for AVs in the world. Let us remind ourselves of some of the potential benefits.

Automated vehicles could create a market worth £42 billion by 2035, and 38,000 new jobs. They have the potential to make roads safer, including for pedestrians and cyclists, by removing the human error that causes 88% of road traffic incidents. Research from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders suggests that if automated vehicles are deployed in substantial numbers, 3,900 lives could be saved and 60,000 serious incidents prevented up to 2040. Better road safety also means significant savings for the NHS. Research by AXA shows that in 2022, road traffic incidents cost the economy £42 billion, of which £2.3 billion was a direct cost to the NHS in medical treatment and ambulance services.

AVs can improve connectivity in areas where our public transport is failing passengers. However, such an improvement needs to be made alongside long-overdue improvements in bus services rather than seen in isolation. Better access to transport is important for a great many people, including in rural areas, for older people and for disabled people. An Age UK study found that driving remains the most common form of transport for older people.

Most US states, Germany and France are moving forward with their own AV frameworks, so it would be a mistake for the UK to fall further behind in an industry that could be worth £750 billion globally by 2035. The UK is already running numerous automated vehicle programmes, including those by Wayve, Oxa and Starship.

Let us consider where we are with the legislation in front of us and how we might build on the Bill. Labour’s four amendments cover the following issues: the establishment of an advisory council; the accessibility format required of automated vehicles if used as public transport; the requirement for the publication of a list of data required to be supplied; and removing the need for people injured by an automated vehicle to prove that the vehicle was driving itself if they make a legal claim for compensation.

Let us start with new clause 3. In Committee, the Minister said—multiple times, in fact—that he is in agreement on the need for proper consultation, and he insisted that the Government will consult properly. However, there appears to be something of a gap between the Government’s stated commitment to consultation and what is happening in practice. For example, Government guidelines on minimum engagement for AV trials do not currently specify that disabled people’s organisations need to be consulted. If the Minister agrees on the importance of consultation, why is that not stated in the Bill?

Refurbishing Trains: Contracts

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Thursday 7th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Huw Merriman]

May I again thank my friend the hon. Member for Easington for raising this important issue? This is a matter of grave concern. The site has been operating in Derby for many years. Indeed, I think he and I both went to that site when it was formerly owned by Bombardier as part of a Transport Committee delegation. That support is assured. I also make the point that I am meeting Unite the union next week. It has been in touch, and I will be pleased to work with it and everyone to see what more can be done to keep that plant open.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

I know that the Minister is a great advocate of the work of the Transport Committee, and I strongly urge him to look at the transcript of the evidence we received yesterday from not just Alstom but others in the rail industry. The fact is that the medium and long-term prospects for the sector are positive. What we are facing is a short-term lull. I impress on him the urgency of working with the rolling stock companies—ROSCOs—and others to try to bring forward some refurbishment contracts that Alstom and others can bid for to help smooth out these peaks and troughs in the sector.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Merriman]

We are aware that performance needs to be a lot better than it is currently, not just from train manufacturers but from Network Rail. Indeed, I was due to meet with the train operators this morning to discuss that issue; obviously, I have had to move that meeting, but I am very happy to meet with my hon. Friend so that I can take his particular points into account. We need to do more.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Simon Lightwood (Wakefield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Alstom Litchurch Lane factory in Derby has been building trains for over a century, since the dawn of train travel. It has provided high-skilled jobs for the local community for generations and helps support other local companies that form part of its supply chain, and as Britain’s biggest train-building plant, it plays a pivotal role in supporting the growth of the midlands and our country’s manufacturing sector.

Following the Government’s chaos and indecision over HS2 and the lack of a long-term strategy, hundreds of highly skilled jobs at the plant are at risk, with no confirmed workload beyond the first quarter of 2024, and contracts to build trains for HS2 pushed back until 2026, creating a gap in orders. This news will be deeply worrying for those affected and their families in the run-up to Christmas. It will also be extremely concerning for local businesses that rely on the factory and the wider rail sector, and for the people of Derby.

The workers at Alstom have only days to get a decision out of the Minister before their livelihoods are put at risk—time is up. They deserve to hear from the Minister how this has been allowed to happen, and what action the Government are taking to pursue a deal to secure the Derby plant and ensure that as many jobs are protected as possible. What urgent clarity can the Government provide Alstom on the short-term rolling stock pipeline, including possible refurbishments?

I am pleased that the Minister confirmed that he will be meeting representatives from Unite the union, and I hope that he will commit to working with them to safeguard jobs. When can the factory finally get certainty on HS2 orders, so that it can plan for the future and secure jobs? How many more rail manufacturing jobs across the country are at risk following the Government’s recent decision on HS2?

Earlier this year, Derby was named the Government’s home of Great British Railways. Just seven months on, the future of its landmark factory is in danger. At the heart of this is the chaos and indecision of the Conservative party. The Minister owes the people of Derby and the country an explanation of what he plans to do to stop the Prime Minister’s HS2 fiasco leading to more job losses.

Civil Aviation

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 18th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Mike Penning]

I hate to say this to the shadow Minister, but this is about slots at Luton airport—in a Labour-controlled constituency—which I thought he might be interested in, because my constituents really are.

I just want to put on the record that increased slots will cause increased pollution and increased noise for my constituents. The decision to allow increased number of flights—the expansion will almost double Luton airport—was fundamentally opposed by me, and it will be a very sad day when it goes ahead.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

UK Automotive Industry

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 18th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Saqib Bhatti]

That is an interesting point; there was a conversation about that on the day. There is a recognition that there will be a variety of ways that charging can happen, and the industry itself says it will adapt. The opening of the car charging park, which as I said is the largest in the UK, with the industry committed to doing much more across the country, is a prime example of how the private sector will lead the way. The hon. Lady made a good point that charging networks have to be in a place where the cars can get to them, but I am confident and I have more optimism than she does. I think they will get there through pure necessity: the consumer will demand it and the market will supply it.

I was pleased to see my hon. Friend the new Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Steve Tuckwell) join us in the House. I campaigned for him and I think the people of Uxbridge and South Ruislip made the right decision. However, after the campaign a parallel was drawn, wrongly in my opinion, between a deeply damaging ultra low emission zone policy imposed by the ideological Mayor of London, who as the Uxbridge result demonstrates is clearly out of touch with his residents, and the transition to EV.

As someone who is pro the EV transition, who understands that businesses need certainty to plan and that they are already on the way, I think we need to be able to welcome challenges from colleagues. This is probably one of the most transformative transitions the industry and the country—probably even the world—are going to go through, as transformative as the industrial revolution of the 18th and 19th centuries. We owe it to our constituents to ensure that, when the challenges come, we look at them over and over again, whether on EV charging, gigafactories or the cost of EVs themselves.

The transition has to be affordable. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) talked about putting the consumer at the heart of this, and he is right. We have to appeal to more than the heart; we have to make sure that it makes economic sense for households and hard-working families across Britain. As people who are pro the transition, we must respect the challenge from those who argue against it. We have a responsibility to come up with the answers and to show leadership in that way. The charging park that I referred to is a good example of that, and the investment by Jaguar Land Rover is a great example of its commitment to ensuring that EVs will be the future, something that we will not only use in the UK, but export across the world.

I think the debate on net zero and whether the journey to get there is correct is happening in the wrong terms. I know the Opposition have already spoken about their £28 billion a year net zero package, but I note that it is not yet clear how they will fund that. In reality, the only answer is that either they will borrow, or they will tax hard-working families and businesses until their pips squeak and the industry falls to its knees. It is no wonder that they have aligned themselves with organisations such as Just Stop Oil that want to destroy the automotive sector, kill off jobs and ensure that their brand of socialism is the way forward. We can see that because, of course, the Labour party has taken a £1.5 million donation from organisations such as Just Stop Oil.

I understand why Labour wants to write big cheques, including the £28 billion plan: it is afraid of a market-driven approach, which would unleash our potential and power as a nation. A free market approach means a belief in freedom—the freedom to innovate; the freedom of the consumer to choose the product that they want to buy, driving up quality, which will be absolutely necessary as we get international competitors such as the Chinese; and, of course, freedom from the shackles of socialism. We know that that freedom will be necessary if we are to deliver the transition to net zero.

I welcome the debate. I am optimistic about the opportunities presented by the automotive sector. I will always fight for my constituents in Meriden and Solihull borough to be part of a thriving industry that will compete globally for many decades to come.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman]

An economist of my right hon. Friend’s distinction will know that it is futile to predict the activity of private markets, because they so often move faster than we would imagine. A classic example of that is the way in which electrification has moved up the range and weight curves over the past few years. It is certainly true that at the moment, electric vehicles rely on fossil fuels for part of their charge, meaning that they are less green than they will be when those fossil fuels are removed from our electrical charging system. Nevertheless, those vehicles remain significantly lower-emission over their life cycle than equivalent petrol and diesel vehicles, including the production and disposal of batteries.

Capacity-building projects for important areas of our connected and autonomous vehicle supply chain are already starting to take place. This country remains one of the first to explore the business case for connected and autonomous mobility as a mass-transit solution. Connected and autonomous mobility will be the future; it will be an electric future, a zero-emission future, and one that is powered by the investments and leadership being provided now, with the private sector, by this Government.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the UK automotive industry.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Yes, it would be impossible to manage an electric car without Moto Rugby.

Night Flights: Impact on Communities

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Whether he can confirm.

[Sarah Olney]

I beg your pardon, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether the Minister can confirm that that will be a full analysis of the health and mental wellbeing impacts and of all the other things we have been talking about today.

Bus Services: Blaydon

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Holden]

I thank the hon. Lady for speaking out. Obviously, the Government have put in place a huge number of measures to help reduce taxes on lower-paid workers, but I think this is something for the bus operators to take up, and the current ongoing disputes with unions need to be talked through. I know Go North East seems to have reached a settlement, and I hope other bus operators will also do so in the near future.

I would like to take this opportunity to place on record my thanks to the drivers around the country for the vital work they do every day. They absolutely were key workers during the pandemic, as the hon. Member for Blaydon said, and they played such a vital role to ensure that those who were required to travel were able to do so. We know nevertheless that driver shortages continue, and we will continue discussions with the sector to do more in this area.

I turn briefly to the issue of fares, which we know with the rising cost of living are a particular issue for people. The schemes that have been put in place, in addition to the funding the Government are providing, are there to help stop fares rising as much as we possibly can. A key ambition of the national bus strategy is to make services cheaper, and the over £1 billion we have allocated to local transport authorities to improve services will also support this, as will the bus improvement scheme we are looking for in the near future. We are already beginning to see a return on this investment, with reduced fare measures being introduced in Greater Manchester and Liverpool, to name just a couple of examples.

As we come out the other side of the pandemic, the Government remain determined that great bus services should be available to everyone everywhere, including in the north-east. I echo the hon. Lady’s praise for bus drivers. In addition to the £3 billion that we are providing the sector to support improvements to bus services across the country, and the nearly £2 billion in pandemic funding recovery, the Government continue to provide funding to subsidise local bus services through other routes. We provide more than £200 million every year direct to operators through bus service operator grants, to help keep fares down and help them to run more extensive networks, and a further £42 million is provided to local transport authorities annually through those grants. There are 79 English local transport authorities outside London, and Nexus has received more than £1 million this year to subsidise services in the north-east. We are also providing funding to local authorities so that old and disabled people up and down the country can travel on buses for free—a scheme that currently costs around £1 billion a year.

Once again, I congratulate the hon. Member for Blaydon, my neighbour, on securing this debate and raising this important issue. I hope she will continue to hold my feet to the fire as the new junior Minister in the Department responsible for this issue. I will write to her in due course once the Department can confirm the final allocation to Transport North East to deliver its bus service improvement plan, and I would be delighted to visit her constituency in future. Beyond my own constituency work I will shortly visit the region to look at improvements to the A1 between Scotswood and North Brunton, to help ease congestion there, and hopefully that will have a knock-on impact on some of those services. I hope the hon. Lady will see that the Government are investing substantially to improve access to transport in the north-east, including our vital bus services, and I look forward to engaging with her in future as we seek to deliver improvements to buses in the north-east as well as the rest of England.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his excellent debut at the Dispatch Box.

Question put and agreed to.

Avanti West Coast Contract Renewal

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Paulette Hamilton (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

People in Birmingham are absolutely sick to the back teeth of Avanti West Coast—its cancelled trains and overcrowded carriages, the cuts to services and the lack of ticket availability. It is absolutely ridiculous that its contract was extended. If we are serious about levelling up and improving services, we need to have plans in place to end this chaos. So Minister, do you think that—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Not “Minister, do you think?” but, “Madam Deputy Speaker, does the Minister think?”

[Mrs Paulette Hamilton]

Madam Deputy Speaker, does the Minister think that rewarding Avanti with a contract extension was a mistake?

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. What is the hon. Gentleman’s question?

[Mr Mahmood]

The question is that the Minister should not have agreed this six-month extension, but should start working on it now, and by December—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. That is a statement. Does the hon. Gentleman have a question for the Minister?

[Mr Mahmood]

Will the Minister put in place a programme now so that we can take charge of Avanti trains by December?

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Foster]

We are already acting; there is daily engagement with Avanti on how it is progressing towards its improvement plan. As I have made clear, we are not just accepting assurances that it will make improvements in December, but looking for clear evidence that it is meeting the milestones to do just that. We are keen that there should be good relationships between employers and their employees in the sector. For all the problems that are well known about, rail sector management and employees worked closely together for the state funeral and the events following the death of Her late Majesty, with many going the extra mile and working into the early hours of the morning to ensure that people could attend the events and get home afterwards. Despite the idea that there are problems in particular parts, there was a real team effort for that event across the rail sector. We are engaging actively, and we look forward to seeing the improvements that the December plan will bring; if not, consequences will follow.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

And finally, from the east coast, Chi Onwurah.

Air Quality in Towcester

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Commons Chamber

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Darren Henry.)

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call Dame Andrea Leadsom—[Interruption.] Order. Surely hon. Members will show some dignity and respect for the right hon. Lady, who is about to begin the Adjournment debate. Leave quietly and quickly. [Interruption.] That means all of you.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Liam Fox (North Somerset) (Con)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sitting not 6 feet from my right hon. Friend and I am unable to hear what she is saying.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct. I have asked Members to behave in a decent and respectful way. I think it is a bit more quiet now.

[Dame Andrea Leadsom]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I was describing Towcester, a beautiful town in the heart of my South Northamptonshire constituency. It is an idyllic scene until the traffic starts. Most days, and sometimes all day, cars queue down the A5 Watling Street, which is the high street through Towcester. Buses cannot pass the cars parked either side, and worst of all, whenever the M1 or the M40 are up the creek, which can happen at any point during the day or night, we have heavy goods vehicles squeezing their way through the narrow gap between parked cars. They often have to drive on to the pavement with air brakes wheezing, tooting their horns to each other to signify, “You first.”, “No, you first.” I will never forget the day, when my son was 12, that we were walking past the town hall where the pavement narrows to only two feet wide. He dropped a ball into the road and leant out to catch it just as an HGV came past. I grabbed him, but if I had not, that would have been the end of him.

HGV drivers have little concern for busy families with pushchairs or elderly residents crossing the street with walking sticks. The only crossroads in the town is at the historic Saracens Head pub, mentioned in Charles Dickens’s, “The Pickwick Papers”. Back in the day, as a coaching inn, it would have been a beautiful stop-off point for travellers, but now, having a pint in its pub garden is akin to having a beer alongside several gallons of diesel fumes. This road is unbelievably unsuitable for the size and volume of traffic that is using it, and quite apart from the obvious dangers for cyclists and pedestrians, the traffic is having an appalling impact on Towcester’s air quality, noise levels and quality of life for residents.

Towcester has been in need of a ring road for probably 50 years, and since becoming MP for South Northamptonshire in 2010, resolving that issue has been one of my main local priorities. The beauty of the town drew the eye of Persimmon Homes, which agreed to build a relief road for the town, among other things, in return for planning permission for more than 2,000 new homes on the edge of Towcester. I am no nimby and neither are my constituents. The new housing has been welcomed, and new residents are enjoying the lovely independent retail offer of Towcester, as well as the stunning walks through parkland that used to belong to the Easton Neston estate. As always seems to happen in these situations, the houses are being built at breakneck speed, but after 12 years of my beating down the door of National Highways, the local council, the Department for Transport and Persimmon, we have somehow only managed to achieve a road to nowhere. I have a meeting with them all together once a month; everyone is keen to get the job finished, but as hon. Members can imagine, the sparks occasionally fly.

The relief road will ultimately join the A5 with the A43 as a bypass to the town centre. After years of negotiation, the DFT has agreed that signage will push traffic out of the town and on to the relief road. A new consultation is also under way to improve the look and feel of Towcester town centre and put traffic calming measures in place. The future for Towcester is promising, but that happy vision is probably the best part of two years away or more.

The centre of Towcester was declared an air quality management area as long ago as September 2005. Since then, pollution levels have steadily got far worse; they are currently well above the target level set by the Government. West Northamptonshire Council wrote to all residents of Watling Street and the surrounding areas in March 2021 about air quality, reminding them that their properties fall within an air quality management area and that they might wish to reduce the amount of air pollution to which they are exposed. I am absolutely certain that they all agree.

One of the specific measures that the council proposed was to keep windows adjacent to the road closed during peak traffic periods and to ventilate homes as much as possible through windows that face away from the primary traffic route. You can imagine how residents felt about that advice, Madam Deputy Speaker. Quite rightly, many constituents have contacted me to ask why help in the form of the relief road is not being expedited. They also want to know what we can do in the meantime to protect local people from the damage that is being done to their lungs.

High Speed Rail (Crewe - Manchester) Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 20th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Katherine Fletcher]

It doesn’t half sound like you are picking holes in it because you want to play politics. This is the best thing for the economy in the north of England.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I will just clear this up. The hon. Lady means to say “he” and not “you.”

[Katherine Fletcher]

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker. I meant to say “he.”

Industrial Action on the Railway

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 20th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Grant Shapps]

The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) used a lot of words to avoid saying the four words, “I condemn the strikes.” She can practise saying it if she likes. I condemn the strikes—will she?

I remind the House that the hon. Lady is a former union official. She will therefore know better than most that negotiations are always held between the employers and the unions. She calls on the Government to get the parties around the table, but they were around the table. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) is right that they are not now, because the union has just walked out to call a press conference to say the strikes are on.

The hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley is wrong when she says these strikes are about pay, safety and job cuts. Let us take them in turn. Pay—the unions wrongly told their workers that there would be no pay rise. There will be a pay rise because the pay freeze is coming to an end, so that is untrue.

Safety—it is unsafe to have people walking down the track to check the condition of the lines when it can be done by trains that can take 70,000 pictures a minute and by drones that can look at the lines from overhead. Safety is about updating outdated working practices. If the hon. Lady cared about safety, she would care about modernisation.

Job cuts—the hon. Lady will know there has already been a call for voluntary job cuts. In fact, 5,000-plus people came forward, and 2,700 have been accepted. This is about ensuring we have a railway that is fit for the post-covid world. It is therefore crazy that the RMT jumped the gun and, before the talks had a chance to get anywhere, launched into strikes.

The hon. Lady’s call for the Government to be more involved is a desperate attempt to deflect from the fact the Labour party and its constituency Labour parties have received £250,000 from the RMT. And that is nothing—Labour has received £100 million from the unions over the last 10 years, and Labour Members are here today, as ever, failing to condemn strikes that will hurt ordinary people, that will hurt kids trying to do their GCSEs and A-levels, that will hurt people trying to get to hospital appointments that were delayed during covid, and that will even see veterans miss armed forces celebrations this week.

There is no excuse for the hon. Lady and her Front-Bench team sitting on the fence. I can almost feel her pain as she resists saying the four words, “I condemn the strikes.”

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I call the Chairman of the Transport Committee, Huw Merriman.

[Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con)]

I find it extremely bizarre for the Secretary of State to be blamed for not being in the room when these talks, which were ongoing when the RMT called the strikes, were all about intricate, technical reforms of which we would not expect politicians to be in charge, and indeed when the RMT has said it will not negotiate with a Conservative Government. He does not need to waste his time responding to that.

I was down at the port of Southampton with the Select Committee last week, and 30% of everything that comes in on those ships goes to the rest of the country by rail freight. These strikes will affect everyone, not just rail passengers. What are we doing to preserve our rail freight routes?

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

It is not true and you know that.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I cannot have a dialogue. I recognise that there is a difference of opinion. It might have to be settled at another point. We will stick to this point and if the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) wants to raise the matter later, I will listen to him.

[Grant Shapps]

Similar to the right hon. Gentleman—this is where we have a lot in common—I had the very sad Hatfield rail accident in my constituency, and Potters Bar is next to where I live. Those were two major rail accidents in respect of which the maintenance of the railway was absolutely key.

I have heard Mick Lynch of the RMT mention this figure of a 50% reduction in safety staff. What is wrong about that is, as I explained in my statement, if we can have automation, with trains taking 70,000 images per minute, and use drones and other technologies, it will put our railway at risk not to use those things, because the modern standards that are required for maintenance will not be available.

The right hon. Gentleman asked how I know about these matters; as Transport Secretary, I have the unfortunate task of having to read all the Rail Accident Investigation Branch investigations, and I sometimes have to respond to coroners as well. Recently, I read with great sadness about a man who was killed while walking along the track to maintain it. We need to get rid of these outdated, outmoded ways of carrying out maintenance and really look after the safety of the railways.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grant Shapps]

That is an appropriate place to end. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. People have dug deep—that is exactly what they have done; it was £600 per household. People are furious. They paid out that money to make sure that nobody lost their jobs, and what thanks have they got? Where is the reward? Where is the “thank you” for keeping the railway going? It is a strike that will put people out of pay and hit people’s pockets once again, and Labour Members cannot even find their way to say, “We condemn the strikes.” It is a disgrace.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the Secretary of State and all Members who took part in that item of business.