Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 29th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Jesse Norman)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 2—Public facility operators: provision of public charging points—

‘(1) Regulations may impose requirements on owners and operators of public facilities falling within a prescribed description, in connection with the provision on their premises of public charging points.

(2) Regulations under subsection (1) may, for example—

(a) require owners and operators of public facilities to provide public charging points;

(b) require owners and operators of public facilities to work with local authorities on the provision of public charging points;

(c) require public charging points to be available for use at prescribed times; and

(d) require services or facilities prescribed by the regulations to be provided in connection with public charging points.

(3) In this section “public facilities” means—

(a) supermarkets;

(b) public car parks;

(c) airports;

(d) train stations; and

(e) such other public facilities as prescribed in regulations.’

This new clause would provide the Secretary of State with the power to make regulations requiring owners and operators of certain public facilities to work with local authorities to provide public charging points and to ensure that public charging points are maintained and easily accessible to the public.

New clause 3—Charging points strategy: public transport and commercial vehicles—

‘(1) The Secretary of State must, within 12 months of this Act receiving Royal Assent, lay a report before Parliament setting out a comprehensive UK charging points strategy for public transport and commercial vehicles.

(2) The report must, in particular, consider the establishment of charging points for—

(a) buses;

(b) electric bikes and other mobility vehicles;

(c) haulage vehicles;

(d) commercial vehicle fleets; and

(e) such other public transport and commercial vehicles as considered relevant by the Secretary of State.’

This new clause would require the Secretary of State to set out a strategy for establishing charging points for public transport and commercial vehicles.

Government amendments 1 to 3.

[Jesse Norman]

Following a fruitful debate in Committee, the Government decided to table new clause 1 to part 2 of the Bill. Smart charge points will play a vital role in managing the demand on the grid created by charging electric vehicles. Estimates from the national grid suggest that the increase in peak demand caused by electric vehicles could be significantly reduced by smart charging. Less electricity generation and fewer network upgrades would be required, thereby reducing energy costs and costs to bill payers. Smart charging can not only ensure that vehicle owners receive the required amount of electricity within the time required, but adapt power flow to meet the needs of consumers and various parties in the energy system.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hayes]

Innovation and change often initially result in a multiplicity of systems. One thinks of the industry that I was once in—the IT industry. It took some while before MS-DOS, and subsequently Windows, emerged. Of course, there are still Apple computers with a different system altogether, but at the birth of the personal computer, all kinds of technologies co-existed. It was a while before standards became certain, adapted and adopted, widely recognised and used. I suspect that the same applies in this area of innovation and change. As the technology beds down, I expect that there will be greater consistency, but the Government must play their part too.

Although I am sure that the market will normalise around a set of standards, the Government can—by what they do both legislatively and in terms of the kind of incentives I mentioned earlier that might be provided to those who are developing charge points such as local authorities—help that process along the way and that will build consumer confidence. Recognisability, affordability and accessibility are critical if people are going to buy electric cars without the uncertainty that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland described to us. She was a bold early adopter who entered the marketplace with a degree of optimism and hope. I hope that her hope has not been too tarnished by subsequent experience because the trailblazing spirit that she personifies is important if we are to get the momentum we want for this change in the way we drive and what we drive.

I welcome these amendments. As I said at the outset, they reflect sensible scrutiny of important legislation, although of course there is more to be done. In establishing this national infrastructure, I am confident that the same spirit of conciliation, collaboration and co-operation that has characterised our considerations so far will continue.

I begin the end of my remarks where I started—with Ruskin. Ruskin said:

“The training which makes men happiest in themselves also makes them most serviceable to others.”

Further to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan), the change that I recommend will not work unless we have people ready to make it work. That requires skills and training that is serviceable to others. It requires building a human infrastructure fit to do the job to make the physical infrastructure as effective as it can be. I know that there will be more consideration of that during the rest of this debate.

In the short time that I have been on the Back Benches, I have learned that one of the virtues is that one does not have to stay for the whole of a debate. To stay longer, in any case, might attract more plaudits, and even I would begin to become embarrassed. In the interests of the whole House, not just my own, I am now going to end this brief contribution, sit a moment longer and then proceed to my dinner, safe in the knowledge that I pass the baton to others still more capable of continuing the debate in the spirit in which it began.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I call Matt Warman.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. May I start by—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon. In being carried away by listening to the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), I called him by the wrong name. Mr Western.

[Matt Western]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It was not an issue.

I start by thanking the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), the former Minister, for conducting what was my first Bill Committee. I found his style particularly remarkable, welcoming and friendly, and very constructive.

I wish to speak to new clause 3, which is in my name, but also to reference new clauses 1, 2 and 4. When I spoke on Second Reading and in Committee, I highlighted what I thought was perhaps an omission—the Minister picked up on this earlier—with regard to making sure that the Bill is viewed by the public, but particularly by consumers, manufacturers and authorities, as setting the right framework, or groundwork, to bring about a change in our mobility. Critical to all this is why we are looking to make this move and why it is happening not just here in this country but globally. Part of that is looking to address the targets for reducing carbon dioxide that are set out in the Paris accord. Transport is of course an important contributor to CO₂ emissions, particularly with regard to petrol vehicles.

There is also the issue of air quality. In my constituency of Warwick and Leamington, we suffer from poor air quality, particularly as a result of the topography of the towns, but also by virtue of our medieval streets. This is brought about by old vehicles—old buses, old lorries, old vans and old cars. It is not an issue with new vehicles. We have some terrific vehicle manufacturers, as has been mentioned. We have highlighted the investment of Nissan, but we should also consider the likes of Mini and Jaguar Land Rover, which is in my constituency. Jaguar Land Rover is making a move to hybrid vehicles, but its current diesel vehicles are very clean, with such things as particulate filters. The responsible manufacturers have moved very quickly on this already.

Rail Franchising

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is not asking the Secretary of State—he is asking the Chair.

[Stephen Lloyd]

Through the Chair, I would like to ask whether the Secretary of State recognises that severe criticism from the head of the NAO. Will he apologise on behalf of his Department to my constituents—rail passengers from Eastbourne—and passengers across the south-east?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy McDonald]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I do not know whether you heard what I did, but I think that I have been accused of unacceptable behaviour. I really think that needs to be clarified. I have tried to conduct myself with all civility and propriety, and what the Secretary of State said is regrettable. I seek your guidance on that point.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The Secretary of State did use a phrase that included the words “not acceptable”. He might wish to repeat what he wanted to say in slightly different words, because the shadow Secretary of State has a point about the precise use of words in the Chamber.

[Chris Grayling]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is unacceptable to defend inappropriate strike action around the country by people who should not disrupt the lives of passengers. I wait with interest to hear any Labour Member say that the strikes are wrong. Sadly, I have not heard that for 18 months. I am waiting patiently. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Middlesbrough says from a sedentary position that it is about safety, even though the safety regulatory authorities say that it is not. That is the shame of it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Before I call the Scottish National party spokesman, I should say that it will be obvious that a great many Members wish to speak and that we have limited time. It should be noted that a great many Members intervened on the two Front-Bench speakers. The Members concerned were generous with their time, but hon. Members, who may all now sit down, must take responsibility for the time that their interventions take up, which is noted by the Chair. Therefore, we will have an initial time limit of four minutes per speaker, but I do not anticipate everyone who has indicated to me that they wish to speak having an opportunity to do so because there simply is not enough time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. There is now a limit of four minutes on Back-Bench speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)]

We have head from Ministers that higher fares will fund improved services. I come from Manchester, the city that had the first railway station, yet we find that the stations and railways in my constituency are in desperate need of investment. Levenshulme station is one of those. It has been hit by consistent flooding over the holidays, and lights in the station did not work for days, posing a real danger to passenger safety. In the 21st century, the station still does not have disability access. Ultimately, the passengers, who are paying higher fares—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I have tried to let the hon. Gentleman make his point, but he has now made a longer speech in that intervention than most people who are sitting here will get to make in the next half an hour, because we are going to have very tight time limits. Many Members have made very long interventions, which means some others will not get to speak at all. If hon. Members want to be fair, they know how to do so.

[Lisa Nandy]

My hon. Friend is right, because in a town like mine, which is typical of many around the country, people commute into nearby cities for work—Manchester is my nearby city, so I am familiar with it. Two thirds of my constituents commute out of the borough for work every day. For our town, the economic interest is enormous, because when they return to Wigan they spend in our local shops and businesses, sustaining our high streets and our local pubs. He will know as well as I do that towns across this country are ageing. The Centre for Towns research we launched last year showed that towns lost 25 million people under the age of 25 over the past 30 years, so public transport is the artery that keeps the heart beating in towns like mine. It has always been thus—towns such as Manchester and Birmingham grew and thrived because of the development of the railways, which enabled them to trade with one another. So how is it that 200 years later a report from the Institute for Public Policy Research finds that it takes longer to get from Liverpool to Hull than it does to get from London to Paris?

I will give the Minister one example of why these decisions, which are being made hundreds of miles away from the people who are affected, are broken. In 2015, the Department for Transport awarded the northern rail franchise to Arriva and, as part of that deal, which we were told would give us a better service, the decision was taken to axe the direct service from Southport through Wigan and into Manchester Piccadilly. Two thirds of people who commute from Wigan to Manchester commute to the south side of the city, but they were breezily told by their Government that instead they could commute into the north side of the city and arrive at work mid-morning. If they had been consulted at all, they would have told the Secretary of State why that was a problem. It has taken five MPs from three political parties two years of hard work to try to persuade the Government to sort this out, and we still have not managed to resolve it. No wonder four and a half times more people commute by train in London as a proportion of the population than in my region of the north-west. Decisions are made hundreds of miles away from the people who are affected, with no understanding and no thought given to the reality of their daily lives. I say to the Minister, who is not paying attention at the moment, that he will soon have to pay attention because the level of anger that this is creating across the country is immense.

The data analyst Tom Forth pointed out recently that for a scheme to be funded in Leeds, it needs to provide twice the return on investment of a scheme in London. How can that be sustainable? I just say this to the Minister: if we had been given the power to make these decisions for ourselves, we would have made very different decisions in recent years. We would have prioritised local services and connecting up our great regional cities before we started investing in High Speed 2. We would never have got into a situation where we were faced with losing the guard on the train. I will tell him what that will do: it will make our railways no-go areas for many people, including women late at night, people with disabilities and older people, who make up the bulk of my constituents.

We would talk far more about buses. In my constituency, it is now often cheaper for a family to get a taxi than a bus—how is that sustainable? The Secretary of State was very fond a few years ago of the phrase “take back control”. If he means anything at all by his word, he will give us back control, because we could hardly do worse than this Government.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Following on from what I said a few moments ago, I now have to reduce the time limit to three minutes.

Rail Update

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 29th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I spoke to the metro Mayor this morning about this and the investments we need, and also about North Filton railway station. He clearly has a strong agenda to take forward investment in the suburban service around Bristol. I have also been to the port and looked at the point on the putative Henbury loop that would be the issue. We need to resolve that, and I absolutely understand the need to get those services working well.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The prize for patience and perseverance goes to Luke Pollard.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Fragmentation of the great western franchise risks locking in a poor deal for rail for the far south-west, so will the Secretary of State take this opportunity to match the commitment given by the shadow Secretary of State for Transport to fund the peninsula rail taskforce recommendations for faster journeys and a more resilient railway, and to ensure that we can unlock the investment we need for Plymouth, Devon and Cornwall?

Transport in the North

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 6th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that for people with no other option, the withdrawal of a bus service can be devastating? Despite that, 400 supported routes have been downgraded or cut, year on year, since 2010. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) has said, my region of Yorkshire and Humber has experienced local transport funding cuts of 37%. I am not going to ask the Minister for more money—I am sure he would say no—but can he, in his summing up, please explain to us why the Government are denying my area the bus franchise powers needed to improve services?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. The hon. Lady could have made a speech if she wanted to, but this is rather a long intervention at this stage in the evening, and it will stop someone else speaking. I will allow her to ask her question very quickly.

[Tracy Brabin]

Thank you so much, Madam Deputy Speaker; I appreciate your patience. If the power to deliver more services is good enough for London, Manchester and Liverpool, surely it is good enough for Batley and Spen.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am afraid that I have to reduce the time limit to four minutes.

Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sir Greg Knight]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way before he reaches the end of his preliminary remarks. [Laughter.] Has he had any further thoughts on the data log of automated vehicles, how long such information should be kept and who should have access to it? We all expect insurance companies and the police—even if there is no accident, the vehicle might be involved in a crime—to have the right to access the data log, but will others be able to seek access to it, such as an employer trying to see what an employee has been up to during the day, or an ambitious divorce lawyer seeking to prove adultery has taken place and trying to find out where the occupant of the automated vehicle had been during an afternoon?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Just before the Minister answers that unnecessarily long intervention, I will, for the avoidance of doubt, draw it to the attention of the House that the Minister has already come to the end of his preliminary remarks, is now in the body of his speech, which is necessarily lengthy since he is educating us as well as entertaining us, and will very soon be approaching the peroration.

[Mr Hayes]

My right hon. Friend tempts me to enter into salacious matters, into which I will not stray. He raised this matter in Committee when we considered the first Bill, and he is right that we need to look at it closely. Information is a powerful tool. The House takes a very serious view on the collection and storage of information, so he is right to explore it. I hope we might look at it in greater detail in Committee. I do not know if he was volunteering to be on the Committee—that is a matter for the office, rather than me—but it is important that we consider information in this debate and discuss it further.

As you said, Madam Deputy Speaker—it is almost as if you had sight of my speech—I am well into the main part of my speech and will be rapidly moving on to my peroration.

In essence, the increase in electric vehicles has big implications for the way we power our cars. Other technologies have profound implications for the way we use our cars. Revolutionary new driver assistance systems are already delivering improvements that motorists now take for granted. Our parents could not have envisaged sat-nav, assisted parking or even cruise control, which would have seemed like science fiction just a generation or two ago. But this is not science fiction; it is science fact. They merely mark the way towards a much more significant change: the combination of technologies we will enjoy in our lifetime, and certainly in our children’s, will change motoring profoundly.

We expect automated cars to appear from the 2020s. They present an enormous opportunity for the UK: securing high-quality jobs and investment; creating new mobility solutions that can transform lives; and, as I said earlier, improving road safety. In 2016, human error was responsible for a very significant proportion of all reported accidents. Automated cars will radically change that. To support consumers and businesses involved in automated vehicle accidents, they will need an insurance framework that is fit for purpose. Currently, they may not be covered for collisions that result from vehicle failure, because in the UK only the driver is insured. Victims might have to take vehicle makers to court, which would be time-consuming and expensive, undermining the quick and easy access to compensation that is a cornerstone of our insurance system. Not tackling this problem risks jeopardising consumer protection and undermining the automotive industry’s competitiveness.

We have consulted widely, as the House will know, and, having worked closely with parliamentary colleagues, the automotive industry and the insurance sector, the Government are creating a new compulsory insurance framework that covers motorists when they are driving and when they have legitimately handed control to the vehicle. We will ensure that consumers can buy insurance in the same way they do now, and that they will continue to have quick and fair access to compensation. Insurers will pay out to victims and, where they can, recover costs from the liable party using common and product law.

As I said to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards), not only will this make things easier for consumers, but over time it could also reduce premiums. David Williams, chief commercial underwriter at AXA, one of the UK’s largest insurers, said:

“As well as making our roads safer, insurance premiums are based on the cost of claims and therefore we expect substantially reduced premiums to follow.”

Automated vehicles, together with an effective insurance framework, as the Government propose in the Bill, could deliver significant financial and safety benefits for road users.

We have had many productive debates in this Chamber and in Committee, when these measures were included in last Session’s Vehicle Technology and Aviation Bill. With that in mind, we have made amendments to take into account suggestions made by Members. As I said earlier, we had a considered debate and Members raised issues around software, which we have addressed. Those who study these matters closely will know that Members on both sides of the House talked about the definition of operating systems and how we should improve the proposed legislation. They will have seen, from what we have published, that we have done that. There was an issue about how we define an automated vehicle. Again, we have listened and, as a result of that scrutiny, we have clarified the definition. So far, the scrutiny has resulted in improvements. What we bring before the House is a better product than the one we brought the first time around, although that was, I think, important and welcomed by both the House and industry.

We cannot be prescriptive, for it might inhibit the very innovation we want to encourage. Knowing how much to do is about striking the balance between establishing the certainty that has been called for by a number of hon. Members who have contributed so far, and being, if you like, slightly too dictatorial about what that future might look like.

Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 11th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr John Hayes]

I do not want to delay the House, Madam Deputy Speaker—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am sure that the Minister is going to beg the leave of the House to address the House again.

[Mr Hayes]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I do not want to detain the House unduly except to affirm my thanks to all Members who have contributed to the debate. I hear what the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) says about the previous Bill. He drew attention to those elements of the Bill that are not being considered today. This legislation is very much part of that earlier Bill, but we made it clear in the Queen’s Speech that we intend to introduce further transport legislation. I am happy to continue to have conversations about drones and lasers along the lines that he suggested. It has been a good debate, and it is a good Bill. I think we can leave it at that.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

Rail Infrastructure (Train Operating Companies)

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

We know that often on the railways, as on the roads, it is the small things that make a real difference. I hope that with decentralisation of Network Rail into a route-based structure, the autonomous local managing directors who have their own budgets will be much better placed to apply small amounts of money to small schemes that make a material difference to passengers. I believe that the approach we propose will make that more likely. There is a real opportunity for the east midlands to be early beneficiaries of this approach.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The prize for patience and perseverance goes to Ian Lucas.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Transport for London and Merseyrail are successful vertically integrated train companies. Why, if we want more integration, do we not apply their successful model, which attracts public and private investment, to the rest of our railway network?

Exiting the EU and Transport

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Robert Flello]

I am very grateful. I know that the Minister takes these issues seriously. The DVSA needs more powers to tackle non-UK hauliers, particularly post-Brexit.

Several colleagues, including my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), the Chair of the Transport Select Committee, have talked about vehicle standards, and the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Stewart Malcolm McDonald) talked about standards shopping. It is important that we have a common standard, but it is also important that we stop standards shopping. We should also revisit HGV licensing. Rather than the over-complicated system of C+E licences and all the rest, perhaps it would be better to go back to class 1 and class 2. The certificate of professional competence is another issue that has caused the industry a lot of concerns, problems and difficulties. It is now much more embedded in its culture, but much more work needs to be done in the context of post-Brexit.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun—I have been waiting hours to say that, although I do not know whether I have pronounced it anywhere near correctly—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. Have another go: Kil-marn-ock and Loud-oun. [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman tried very hard. It is not his fault he did not get it quite right.

[Robert Flello]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown)—[Laughter.] Thank you.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I seek your guidance in relation to a matter, notice of which I have given to Mr Speaker and, indeed, to the Foreign Office. Yesterday, during Foreign Office questions, the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), in answer to the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), concerning the demolition in the Negev of Umm al-Hiran in Israel, said:

“I will be looking at this particular announcement and making a statement on this later today.”

—[Official Report, 22 November 2016; Vol. 617, c. 749.]

At about half-past 6 yesterday evening, my office made an inquiry of the Minister’s office and was told that a statement would be issued as soon as possible. We were told the same thing this morning. We were then told that, in fact, it would be a media statement. At about 5 o’clock, when my office phoned again to give notice that I intended to raise this as a point of order, a very short press release was put on to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website.

The point on which I seek your guidance is this: is a Minister in compliance with his or her duties to the House by saying that he or she will make a statement and then issuing a press release, given what Mr Speaker has said in the past about the House being told first before the media?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He and the House know that it is not a point on which I can make a ruling from the Chair, because, of course, the way in which statements are made by Ministers is ultimately a matter for the Minister himself or herself, but I appreciate the point that the right hon. Gentleman makes. He has effectively drawn the matter to the attention of the House and, I hope, rather more widely, because it is a sensitive and important matter. Mr Speaker has said many times in the past that, when a Minister has something to say, it ought to be said first to the House. I cannot make a judgment or a ruling about the issue that the right hon. Gentleman raises, but one would hope that if a Minister has given an undertaking to come to the House with certain information, he will do so at some point. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for bringing this sensitive issue to the attention of the House.

Disability Equality Training (Taxi and Private Hire Vehicle Drivers) Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 18th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I rise to delay the hon. Gentleman for a few seconds in order that the rowdy Members celebrating a victory can leave with discretion and politeness to their colleague.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I want to place on the record my thanks to Guide Dogs UK for its assistance to me in putting this Bill together and those Members across the House who have indicated their support for its measures.

As a Member with, like all Members, disabled constituents specifically affected by discrimination from a minority of taxi hire vehicles, it gives me immense pride to present to the House a Bill designed to settle this issue and ensure all our constituents receive the service the law demands. For too long, this issue has flown under the radar and continues to specifically discriminate against the visually impaired, those with mobility and physical impairments and the more vulnerable in our society.

A minority of taxi and private hire vehicle licence holders frequently discriminate against assistance dog owners and other disabled people by refusing to pick them up. As I am sure Members present are aware, disabled people, including those with assistance dogs, are legally protected under section 29 of the Equality Act 2010. It is unlawful to discriminate against a person because of a protected characteristic or victimise someone when providing a service. This applies to taxis and private hire vehicles as much as any other service. Added to this, numerous disability groups, including Disability Rights UK and Muscular Dystrophy UK, report that their members are being charged higher rates, at times double the standard fare, to accommodate their wheelchairs. This is unethical and cruel.

M25: Dartford

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Monday 14th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Holloway]

I think that the solution lies in any number of measures, but there certainly needs to be further capacity. I agree that we cannot try to squeeze more and more stuff into that collision of long-range national, regional and local traffic. I think that we need to seriously revisit the idea of taking Dartford and Thurrock out of the equation. I have spoken to tunnelling experts who say that that is eminently doable. We need—and it is perfectly feasible—a long tunnel that would start south of the A2 and pop out north of the A14, and vice versa, to swallow up the traffic. The effect of such a tunnel would really depend on numbers, and numbers are a moving target. As I shall explain a little later, Highways England is extremely good at making numbers fit whatever its argument is at the time. However, let us say for argument’s sake that 40%— it could be more, but Highways England would say that it was very much less—of the traffic that goes through your constituency, or hangs around for hours in your constituency, killing your constituents—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

Order. By coincidence, the hon. Gentleman’s mistake is actually correct. He is unaware that he has used the word “you”. I never pick people up on that on the first occasion when it is a mistake, but the hon. Gentleman is an experienced parliamentarian, and he will know that if he says “you”, he is referring to the Chair. Normally I object very significantly if a Member says “you”, meaning another Member but technically referring to me. In this case, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely correct to refer to me, but wrong to do so in the way that he did.

[Mr Holloway]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker; of course you are right and I am sure you have also experienced the nightmare at the Dartford crossing.

For argument’s sake, let us say that the national long-range through-traffic going from the area around Gatwick, along the M25 and then up to the north of England without going anywhere near the exits at Dartford and Thurrock is 40%. If we could somehow get rid of all or most of that 40%, we would suddenly find we had 60% of the traffic remaining. So if we were to build a long tunnel, the regional and local traffic, and presumably some heavy-goods traffic, could use the existing crossings, which would, I would think, be great for the people of Dartford and Thurrock, and the through-traffic would not be seen at all.

I understand that Highways England thinks that when in 2025 the road to nowhere to the east of Gravesend is built—unfortunately, the road has no further connectivity south of the A2, which has not been considered too well—there will be only a 14% reduction at Dartford. I intend to comment later on the fact that Highways England has not provided the public with the numbers, although it may have provided them to Ministers.