(1 week, 3 days ago)
Lords ChamberThat the draft Regulations laid before the House on 30 October be approved.
Relevant document: 41st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)
My Lords, the foreign state influence regime is designed to prevent foreign states controlling, influencing or owning our newspapers and news magazines. It is essential that we safeguard our free press and a pluralistic media landscape for the sake of our democracy. Newspapers remain a vital trusted news source. The Ofcom survey News Consumption in the UK: 2025 reported that 73% of regular news users consider newspapers trustworthy, which is more than any other media.
However, noble Lords are aware of the considerable challenges faced by the news media industry. Newspapers require investment to grow and thrive. Balancing this need for investment with protecting news from the influence of a foreign state is at the heart of the foreign state influence regime. This is what underpinned the three statutory instruments that we made in July. We made regulations to amend the foreign state influence regime to allow 15% of shares or voting rights in a newspaper or news magazine to be held by a state-owned investor provided that they are investors with no right or ability to control, direct or influence the newspaper’s policies. The 15% threshold is below the level where the Competition and Markets Authority typically considers that material influence may arise.
The foreign state influence regime, rightly, has a low bar for intervention. The Secretary of State is given no discretion. She must intervene if she has reasonable grounds for suspecting that a foreign power may hold the ability to influence or control the policy of a UK newspaper enterprise as a result of a merger. This is regardless of whether there is an intention to influence. When we introduced the previous regulations earlier in the year, colleagues in your Lordships’ House and the other place challenged us on whether they had the unintended consequence of permitting multiple foreign powers, investing through state-owned investment vehicles, to each invest 15%. The argument was made that it would be possible for the majority of a newspaper enterprise to be owned by state-owned investors, albeit passively.
We were clear that this is a remote risk. However, we understood the concerns of your Lordships’ House. The Government committed to bring forward an additional statutory instrument to put the matter beyond doubt. That is why we are here today, following our consultation in the summer and the response published on 30 October. I take this opportunity to thank the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, for her invaluable engagement on this matter. I recognise the excellent role that your Lordships’ House so regularly plays in scrutinising and improving legislation.
Noble Lords may find it helpful for me to set out the detailed effect of these regulations. First, the regulations ensure that a 15% cap applies to the percentage of shares or voting rights that may be held in a newspaper by state-owned investors acting on behalf of foreign powers. This means that we are now putting it in statute that multiple state-owned investors, acting on behalf of different states, will not be able each to hold up to 15% in one newspaper. The 15% cap will apply to the combined total of direct and indirect holdings of shares or voting rights. We are introducing a specific and narrow exception for stakes of 5% or below in quoted companies. The exception affects the calculation of whether the 15% cap has been reached in cases where multiple state-owned investors from different countries or territories all have investments in the same newspaper. The exception catches only small shareholdings, and its purpose is to avoid a chilling effect on investment.
Secondly, we are using this opportunity to impose new transparency requirements on state-owned investors that invest in UK newspapers and news magazines. If a state-owned investor acquires a direct holding of more than 5% in a newspaper, they must notify the Secretary of State within 14 days of the relevant transaction being made. State-owned investors which are required to notify the Secretary of State must also publish these details within the same timeframe. This will enable the Secretary of State to report to Parliament on a regular basis—we intend for this to be every six months—on the published details of these acquisitions. This will benefit public and parliamentary confidence by increasing transparency around state-owned investment in newspapers.
If a state-owned investor which acquires a direct holding of more than 5% of shares or voting rights fails to comply with the notification and publication requirements, the transaction will be a foreign state newspaper merger situation, and the Secretary of State will be under a duty to issue a foreign state intervention notice and refer the case to the Competition and Markets Authority.
I want to reassure noble Lords about the nature of the 5% quoted company exception. It applies only to a limited type of investment by state-owned investors, as defined in the legislation. Additionally, the intention behind it is to avoid state-owned investors having to take account of holdings by state-owned investors from other countries, which newspaper groups are unable to track. Holdings in companies with publicly traded shares are disclosable only if they cross certain thresholds. These thresholds differ in different markets, but 5% is a common benchmark. If crossed, the investor must declare the interest to the company and the wider market.
The provision prevents the regulations having a chilling effect on investment. It removes the need for state-owned investors to establish whether state-owned investors from other countries have existing undisclosed or small investments in the same newspaper, which would affect whether their intended investment would or could exceed the 15% cap. Ultimately, these regulations address what the Government believe is a remote risk that multiple state-owned investors from different states could each invest 15% in a single newspaper. This cements the measures that can be taken against foreign state influence in UK newspapers and news magazines. These regulations also further improve transparency around investment, thereby helping to protect a thriving plural press essential to our democracy. I hope your Lordships’ House will support these important steps.
My Lords, as this is the Minister’s second statutory instrument debate today, I commend her stamina, and indeed I commend my noble friend on my own Front Bench for his, too. I welcome this statutory instrument, which meets the commitment that the Minister gave in July to close what was a gaping regulatory loophole that would have allowed multiple foreign states each to own up to 15% of a British newspaper, with all the risks that flow from that. I am also grateful to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its thorough examination and report on these No. 2 regulations. I am also pleased that the Government Chief Whip scheduled this debate on the Floor of the House and not in the Moses Room.
Of course, all of us could have been spared this additional work if the Government had done what I and others advised some months ago, once the so-called “multiples loophole” was spotted, and that was to withdraw, amend and lay a consolidated set of regulations, rather than us having to handle this piecemeal approach. I am not going to get sidetracked, but, as I have said before, the Government’s unwillingness to take the straightforward route raises questions about who or what has been prioritised when dealing with this matter. However, we are where we are, as they say, and I am pleased that these regulations now ensure that the 15% limit for investment from state-owned investment funds is a single aggregate cap.
Since it became apparent two years ago that our legal framework could not prevent foreign Governments owning, controlling or influencing British newspapers and news magazines, it has been clear that the future of our free press is not just about protecting editorial independence; it is also about ensuring financial sustainability. The pace of technological change and the economic challenges facing the news industry continue to worsen, making investment urgent and consolidation within the industry increasingly likely. So, while I respect those who maintain their position that, even as an aggregate at 15%, the cap has been set too high, my view, as I said in July, is that, restricted to passive investment only and with additional reporting safeguards, which I will come on to in a minute, an aggregate 15% cap for state-owned investors is acceptable and still supports the principle of press freedom.
That said, the Government’s decision to tackle this in a piecemeal way means that these regulations are not the easiest to follow, so I am grateful to the excellent senior DCMS officials for their patience in responding to my questions seeking clarification over the past few weeks, and I am also grateful for the Minister’s explanation of these regulations in her opening remarks. Other noble Lords may still have questions about how the cap works, with the carve-out for small holdings of 5% and below for listed media companies, but I am satisfied that what is proposed is a reasonable approach. Indeed, I am conscious that we must not make this regime even more complex and that doing so could deter legitimate investment or prevent our news industry accessing much-needed investment capital.
I do not want to detain your Lordships’ House, and the speeches already made by several noble Lords are very much to the point. I should declare an interest as a long-serving employee of the Daily Telegraph. In that capacity, I draw the attention of the Minister to what it is like for a newspaper not to know who is owning it for such a very long time.
It seems to me that the greatest power of bureaucracy is delay, which increases the power of bureaucracy with every moment; that is its appalling leverage on everything else. But business, and particularly journalism, has the opposite desire. It needs to get on, and the word “journalism”, of course, comes from the French word for day. It happens every day, and every day lost is a disaster for us. In certain respects, we have been losing day after day—we have lost roughly half the length of the Second World War not knowing who is really going to own us.
I make no distinction really here between Governments of either party because both, it seems to me, were guilty of a similar failure. I draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that there is a strong contrast between the quasi-judicial role that DCMS quite rightly operates, which is necessary in these cases, and all the manoeuvring and use of time and delay to try to satisfy—as the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Young, have pointed out—the needs of a foreign state that the British Government seem to be overzealously courting.
This is a very bad piece of politics—not party politics—and it puts us all in play. If we were to write the history of this, we would have to see that it fell to the journalists of the Daily Telegraph twice to start making a noise before anything could prevent very bad things happening. That seems to be nothing to do with the quasi-judicial process. I hope that the very sharp deadline of 15 December is tacit acknowledgement by the Government of the damage done by delay and that therefore something more drastic is being done now.
In another place, the Justice Secretary, when trying to do something about jury trials, has made the point that justice delayed is justice denied. We at the Telegraph have had justice delayed for a very long time and therefore denied. The noble Baroness, Lady Stowell, and other noble Lords have been clear that it has to be acknowledged that a process of this sort should never go on again and that there is a big lesson here. If, for whatever reason, the Daily Mail bid fails or gets called into question, there has to be an open, swift and fair process.
My Lords, this has been an important and useful debate, and I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to it. I am particularly grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell of Beeston, for her engagement over many months with DCMS. I think we have a better position as a result of her engagement and persistence on this matter, and I know that the Secretary of State is also grateful for the time she has taken to help us refine this, frustrating as it must have been for the noble Baroness at times.
This regime is about safeguarding a specific industry that has a unique, essential role in the health of our democracy. The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, made it really clear that this is important for democracy, and I think that is beyond doubt in your Lordships’ House. I need to put on the record that I do not recognise the scenario outlined by the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Moore of Etchingham, of the genesis of these SIs, but I hope all noble Lords feel that we have listened to and addressed concerns raised in your Lordships’ House and have got to a better place as a result.
I will address the points made by noble Lords during the debate. The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, raised concerns about the 5% exception’s potential for misuse. I stress that this is a narrow exception, applying in limited circumstances. It intends to remove any potential chilling effect by providing that a state-owned investor, or SOI, from one country or territory may ignore smaller holdings that are in effect too small to confer influence in their own right in quoted companies by SOIs from other countries that are not visible to them.
A hypothetical example of the limited circumstances in which the carve-out is in our view necessary to avoid a chilling effect is that if a state-owned investor wanted to invest 15% in a publicly listed newspaper owner they would have to be sure that no other state-owned investors from any other states or territories already held shares in the same newspaper owner. Without the carve-out, they could potentially not be sure that their 15% investment would comply with the limit.
(1 week, 3 days ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, my life would be truly boring without the chance to talk about football in your Lordships’ House, so I am very pleased to have the opportunity to provide clarity on the draft statutory guidance on the meaning of “significant influence or control” in the context of the Football Governance Act 2025, guidance that was laid before both Houses of Parliament on 27 October 2025. I thank the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for the scrutiny provided on this draft statutory guidance. The committee did not draw the guidance to the special attention of the House and no objections were raised in the other place.
It is always a pleasure to debate issues relating to football regulation with the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan. However, I cannot help but share my surprise and regret that he felt the need to do this by tabling a fatal Motion against the guidance. I agree with my noble friend Lord Hunt that this feels like a disproportionate approach. I am also tempted to agree with my noble friend Lord Watson of Invergowrie that the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, is attempting to rerun the debates we held over the past year. I regret this not least because I sent the draft guidance to the noble Lord myself and offered to meet to discuss the guidance in a letter sent to him, and a number of other Peers with a known interest, over a month ago, an opportunity I also offered to the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson. Notwithstanding this, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, raised no concerns directly to me or my team before this evening’s debate—not when he received my letter, nor even when the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee reported on this guidance on 13 November. I am a little confused about the noble Lord’s quoting of the Minister for Sport, as beyond her Written Ministerial Statement, this has not been discussed or had concerns raised about it in the other place. I am grateful, however, for the opportunity to stress how vital this legislation is in delivering for fans.
The implementation of this regime, which prioritises the protection of clubs from unsuitable owners and financial distress, and the interests of fans nationally, is a priority for this Government. That is why, during our lengthy discussions on and scrutiny of the primary legislation, the Government committed to producing this guidance before clubs are required to identify their owners in the personnel statement. I do not agree with the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, that this guidance does not add clarity. The Government are pleased to have delivered on this commitment and to provide clarity regarding the concept of “significant influence or control”. I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, did not find it clear. I read it twice and I thought it was clear. If I understand it, as somebody who is not a regulator, I believe that it is relatively clear.
This guidance plays a key role in the regulator’s regime, with this unexpected Motion disrupting progress and preventing David Kogan and his team from getting on with their important job. As my noble friend Lady Debbonaire made clear, the regulator now has an excellent, experienced and well-respected chair in post. He has wasted no time in meeting clubs and stakeholders from across football, including the top five English leagues, consulting industry on new rules and building up an executive team of regulatory experts. I hope that noble Lords across the House agree that the regulator needs to be able to make progress on these priorities without delay. As the noble Lord, Lord Addington, said, we need to let him get on with his job.
As someone who has a terrier, I might not agree with the phrasing of the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Sentamu, but I agree with the sentiment of his interventions. We just need to look at the plight of Sheffield Wednesday to understand the urgency of giving the regulator the tools to get to work. With regard to concerns raised by noble Lords today, it is important to note that this guidance was drafted collaboratively. I make it absolutely clear that officials have worked with both industry and non-industry experts to ensure that it is clear, useful and user-friendly.
The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, asked about consultation. I give him an assurance that this has been extensive. Officials have spoken to UEFA, to all the competition organisers, to a wide range of clubs throughout the different leagues and to DBT officials about their comparable Companies Act guidance. In developing the draft, we have drawn on the approach used in the Companies Act “persons with significant control” regime to ensure that we are aligned with current precedent. Building on the Companies Act guidance, it introduces industry-specific examples that have been tested with the football industry, makes these concepts more tangible for those who will have to interpret the guidance, especially clubs, and ensures that this guidance is suited to the regulated industry.
In relation to the point on consultation from the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, I say that, crucially, the guidance has also been tested with the regulator itself to ensure that the concepts are clear and that the non-exhaustive examples are helpful. David Kogan and his team have confirmed that this guidance provides them with the product they need to undertake their important work.
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for answering the questions that were posed. I apologise if I missed this, but does she accept that, under paragraph 2.11, it might be possible for a sponsor of a club to be considered as part of the new owners and directors test, if the sponsor’s recommendations are usually followed by the club? That is the test that paragraph 2.11 shows.
I will have to defer to the Box on that point, but I will be happy to pick that up with the noble Lord afterwards.
I thank the Minister for her response. I will pick up on some of the points she has made and try to answer the other interventions that came from the packed Benches on the Government side, which I am delighted to see for this debate. I have rarely been called a trout-fishing terrier. I love trout fishing and I also love terriers, so I take those both as compliments. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Debbonaire, that I am passionately committed to football, both amateur and professional; I always have been in 40 years involved in sport. There is no one who would regard my intervention on this subject as coming from any other position than being passionate about sport and football.
The Act is detrimental to the future of professional football; it is a view I spoke about a great deal in Committee. This evening, I did not address any of those points but focused exclusively on the guidance. I say to the Minister and to others that the debate this evening does not stop the regulator for one day. The statutory guidance is laid before both Houses until 5 December, and there is the opportunity to debate it in either House until that point. It is not a delaying tactic; it does not delay the regulator getting on with its job. To say that and to imply that is fundamentally wrong. We cannot do anything about this until 5 December, when both Houses will have had the opportunity to consider it. We have had the opportunity in advance of that to have a debate.
I say to the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Watson, who are passionate about sport and highly knowledgeable about football—they may not take this as the greatest compliment coming from me, although it is meant to be a compliment at the highest level—that I tabled this Motion because, if we have secondary legislation, we have the opportunity to review it in the normal way, but if we have draft statutory guidance the only way we can debate it is by tabling a fatal Motion. I have no intention of pressing it to a vote, but I absolutely intended to make sure that what we looked at during the passage of the Bill—the decision to bring forward statutory guidance on this so that the whole of Parliament could consider it—was given due consideration.
Having read the guidance, I made it clear to the House this evening that I was concerned it went too closely along the lines—which the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, said was inevitable and important in the drafting—of being kept purposefully and precisely vague, to use his phrase. I was a little nervous that, in responding, the Minister might do exactly what the noble Lord encouraged her not to do and provide clarity and precision. Understandably, she could not, because it is vague, and intentionally so.
I say to the Minister that this could be far better written. I genuinely believe that it is important to take it away and write it with greater clarity, because the guidance needs to strike a balance between, on the one hand, the need for the regulator to look into significant interest or control and, on the other, having to think about investors and the best interests of every club. It is my firm belief that, if you go too closely down the road of being so precisely vague and wide ranging, it could deter investors in professional football. That is why I felt it important to have this debate.
This Motion does not delay the regulator at all and gives this House the opportunity to consider something it requested in Committee on the Bill and which the Government granted. This debate has been very well attended. I am exceptionally grateful to those who have contributed. I avoided completely going down the line that the noble Baroness, Lady Debbonaire, thought I might by focusing exclusively on and going into detail on this guidance. Having placed this on the record, I hope that the regulator and the world of football will be able to go away and consider whether there are ways to improve the statutory guidance and that, when we sit down with the football clubs, we avoid overlapping with the regulatory frameworks of UEFA, the EFL and the Premier League, which is also vital and to be avoided here.
I am grateful to the Minister for sitting through another debate on football and for the very helpful contributions from, in particular, the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Watson, and the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Sentamu. The noble Lord, Lord Addington, feared that we will see this in case law; I fear that he is absolutely right.
It may help the noble Baroness, Lady Debbonaire, if I repeat one point. I was absolutely opposed to this legislation all the way through and thought that it would be bad law. I believe it is bad law. I thought Boris Johnson’s knee-jerk reaction to go to legislation on the Monday after the Saturday announcement of the super league was wrong. That is not the right way for professional sport in this country. But I did not go down that road this evening. I focused on this because I want to make it as good as possible and passionately want this Act to succeed now that it is in statute, in the interests of football and investors as well as of regulation. I wish the regulator every success with this. I hope it gets it right and has the opportunity to reflect on what has been said on both sides of this House. I beg leave to withdraw my Motion.
(3 weeks, 1 day ago)
Lords ChamberThat the draft Regulations laid before the House on 13 October be approved.
Relevant document: 39th Report from the Secondary Legislation Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 18 and 19 November.
(4 weeks, 1 day ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, in begging leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice, I draw attention to my role as chair of the UK Commission on Covid Commemoration.
My Lords, I am pleased that today the Government have published their response to the UK Commission on Covid Commemoration, setting out plans to mark this period in our nation’s history. I thank the noble Baroness and all the commissioners for the careful consideration they have given to their report, as well as the Covid-19 bereaved family groups: Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice Cymru, Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice UK, Covid-19 Families Scotland, Covid19 Families UK, the Friends of the Wall, the Memory Stones of Love, and Yellow Hearts to Remember. We are grateful for their involvement in developing this commemorative programme and for their tireless voluntary efforts to support others in their grief. I also thank DCMS officials for their work on this issue. Through this programme of commemoration, we will ensure that those we lost are honoured, that we remember the sacrifices and the resilience of so many, and that, as a country, we do not forget.
I thank the Minister very much for her comments. I thank the Government for their considered and thoughtful response, published today. I thank the Minister and her predecessors, both in this Administration and the last. I thank the Cabinet Office and DCMS officials, who have been outstanding throughout this process, my fellow commissioners and those who gave us evidence, including the key workers who gave us evidence about their public service.
Above all, as the Minister has said, I thank those bereaved families who shared their perspectives on what it was like to lose a loved one in the course of the Covid-19 pandemic. Many of them are here in Parliament today. They were generous with their time and commitment in the public consultation events. I remember two things that really struck me. The first was somebody saying that during the pandemic, “Everyone lost something”. The second was their determination both to honour their loved ones and to learn the lessons of the pandemic for the future. I ask the Minister to set out in a little more detail, because many will have not had the chance to read the considered and thoughtful response, how the Government have struck the balance between commemoration, remembering the loss and the loved ones, and preparedness for a future pandemic or other natural hazard.
The Government are clear that the impact of Covid-19 should never be forgotten. I echo the noble Baroness in quoting the evidence given to the commission in terms of everybody losing something. A quarter of a million people lost their lives. That leaves a huge, tragic legacy for those left behind. We want them to be central to the Covid commemoration programme. We continue to support the UK-wide Covid-19 Day of Reflection that will take place each March, and we are going to confirm the dates for the next few years.
We are working with Forestry England and NHS Charities Together on the creation of new Covid-19 commemorative green spaces across England’s forests and in the grounds of NHS sites. We are setting out our support for the long-term preservation of the National Covid Memorial Wall, which is just across the river from Parliament, where we are sitting today, as a national memorial to the lives lost to Covid-19. To do that, we will continue to work closely with the Friends of the Wall and with a range of other partners that we need to include in that work.
In relation to the prevention of future natural hazards, including pandemics, we are launching a new UK-wide fellowship scheme on national hazards to support future national resilience, as recommended by the commission. I am pleased to say that the first cohort will start next year, in February 2026. Alongside this, we are launching new web pages on GOV.UK, dedicated specifically to Covid commemoration, which will include education materials, a repository of oral histories, and a map highlighting more than 100 memorials that already exist, to allow the public to easily find this information. I have a lot more information, but I am aware that other people may want to come in to ask questions.
My Lords, I add my sentiments and those of my Benches to remember all those who, sadly, lost their lives. I also pay tribute to the workers, not just in health and care services, who delivered many of our public services while many were able to stay at home and shield.
We recently had a debate on bereavement and how some people lost loved ones during Covid. While we want to commemorate those who did fantastic work and kept this country going, there are still some who have not yet found closure. We had a very interesting debate a few months ago on this same issue. Is there any update on what the Government are doing to help those who still have not found closure as a result of bereavement and loss that they suffered of loved ones during the pandemic?
The noble Lord raises a really important point. A number of noble Lords will be aware that I had the privilege to work on the response in London. People who I was working with, at the same time as they were leading that response, also lost loved ones. For example, when I went to the wall a couple of weeks ago, I looked for the heart remembering Diana Walker, who was the mother of the woman who was my researcher during that dreadful period. How do you get over a loss of that kind? We are aiming to work with a range of organisations, including bereavement organisations, to make sure that we get it right. We need to get it right so that we commemorate what happened, but also so that, as a Government, we recognise that for so many people the pandemic and the devastating impact it had on people’s lives are still very much part of their present.
My Lords, from these Benches, we too send our remembrance to all those who have died and their families. We send our thanks to so many people across the country who went beyond the call of duty to keep people safe and alive and to keep the country running during the pandemic. The commission’s report talks about preparedness. I ask about one specific issue. What extra help and provision will be given to local public health departments across the country, because they are the ones who have the data and the resources of shoes on the ground and can make a big difference in such problems to do with pandemic or local emergencies?
I am happy to meet the noble Lord to discuss this issue on a national level. I appreciate that he was asking about public health officials at a local level, but we have been conducting a pandemic preparedness exercise at a national level: Exercise Pegasus. Clearly, a huge amount is delivered locally, but I am happy to set up a meeting for the noble Lord with either me or the relevant officials, so that he gets that level of detail that I unfortunately do not have before me today.
My Lords, will the Minister say what the Government’s plans are for the World Health Organization’s pandemic convention, which is moving ahead all too slowly in the United Nations machinery? Do the Government have a firm objective for that convention to be agreed and signed up to in 2026?
I will write to the noble Lord on his important point.
My Lords, this appalling pandemic killed thousands of people. I am sure everybody in the Chamber knows people who were killed and these were often nasty and unpleasant deaths. Since then, the Prime Minister at the time, Boris Johnson, has said—this is my understanding; I am willing to be corrected—that lockdowns did not achieve very much. Can the Minister tell us whether the Government are looking at what the lockdowns achieved? After all, thousands of people died during lockdowns; what did they achieve and what are the Government looking at for the future?
It is important to recognise that a whole inquiry and its machinery are looking at the effectiveness of particular measures. The next module publication will be within a couple of weeks. The work we are announcing our response to today is around commemoration. From a personal perspective, however, I remind noble Lords that the NHS was in a very perilous state at the point that we went into lockdown. For somebody working on the response, the question was not whether we should do that but when.
My Lords, I add my condolences and prayers to those who lost somebody during Covid, particularly those in the Chamber. I also recognise the hard work of the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan, and the commission. What effort is being made on ongoing engagement with communities to rebuild trust in public services, including the health service, which was lost during Covid?
I thank the right reverend Prelate for the leadership that she showed in London during the pandemic. Rebuilding trust is clearly important but is potentially for a wider conversation. I am happy to meet the right reverend Prelate to talk through this. In our approach to the commemoration, we are keen to make sure that, at the heart of what we are announcing today is the recognition of the loss of nearly 250,000 lives.
I also offer the Green group’s deep sympathies to those who continue to live under the shadow of Covid bereavement, those who are suffering continually from long Covid and those who gave so much during the pandemic. The Minister referred to preparedness: there is a high probability that the next pandemic, which the WHO calls Disease X, will be a flu virus; it will almost certainly be an airborne pathogen. Are the Government ready with up-to-date medical supplies to deal with that now and in the future? What are they doing on issues of ventilation and air filtration to make sure that our public spaces are safe in that environment?
Ensuring that the UK is prepared for a future pandemic is absolutely a top priority for the Government. We are embedding lessons from the Covid-19 pandemic, including the inquiry’s recommendations, within our pandemic preparedness. Like other noble Lords, we are hugely grateful to the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Hallett, and her team for their important work. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, that the UK Government have been conducting a national exercise on pandemic preparedness, which is exploring a lot of these issues, called Exercise Pegasus. It involves Ministers from across the UK Government, and is working closely with devolved Governments, to ensure that we have the preparedness that we need for a future pandemic. We are clear that this will not necessarily be after another 100 years and that we need to be prepared now. The exercise is the first of its kind in nearly a decade and the largest simulation of a pandemic in UK history. Its findings and the post-exercise report will be delivered in due course and I am sure will be of interest to your Lordships’ House.
My Lords, in following the noble Baroness’s Question and the Minister’s Answer, I add my condolences to those that have been expressed by noble Lords. The Minister said that preparations are under way and that they do not necessarily need to wait on the detailed results of the inquiry. I am reminded, however, that such an exercise in preparation was carried out in 2016 and that it apparently had no effect after it concluded and the lessons were drawn. Can the Minister assure me that this time any preparations and exercises will be translated into operational capabilities? The best memorial and legacy that we can give those who suffered during Covid, and their families, is to ensure that, if this ever happens again and it is not preventable, at least we will be prepared and action will be based on the experiences of the exercises that we have carried out.
Ensuring that the UK is prepared for a future pandemic is a top priority for this Government. We are already embedding lessons from Covid-19 within our pandemic preparedness. I have already mentioned Exercise Pegasus, so will not go through it again, but the DHSC has committed to publish a new pandemic preparedness strategy, which will set out how the health and care system is implementing the principles of its new strategic approach to pandemic preparedness. We owe it to every person who lost their life or loved ones to make sure that we learn from the Covid-19 pandemic and get it right for the future.
(1 month ago)
Lords Chamber
Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)
My Lords, we welcome the Secretary of State’s Statement and her robust defence of the BBC, but let us not mince words: it is under attack as never before. A free press is the foundation stone of freedom and democracy, and the BBC is the foundation stone of our free press. The highly respected Reuters Institute has just updated its data on news and trust, and its findings should remind us all of the BBC’s importance for not just the UK but the world. In an era of disinformation and social media silos, the BBC stands as a beacon of accuracy. As the Secretary of State says in her Statement:
“It projects British values, creativity and integrity to the world”.
The BBC is not just the news; it is important to remind people of this. It has radio stations, podcasts, orchestras, BBC Bitesize, BBC Online, iPlayer, Sounds and the World Service. It develops and invests in talent in local creative hubs across the UK, not to mention a network of local radio and TV. It plays a hugely important role in promoting the UK around the world—soft power—through the programmes it exports and the World Service, which is ever more important now that President Trump has cut off funds to Voice of America. Through its mission to inform, educate and entertain, the BBC has made culture, news, and other people’s experiences and lives available to all. To quote the words of the man who in so many ways exemplifies the BBC, Sir David Attenborough:
“It is that miraculous advance … that allows a whole society, a whole nation, to see itself and to talk to itself.”
The origin of the word “broadcast” is to sow seeds widely, and that is what the BBC does.
Of course, the BBC is not perfect, and it is right that we hold it to the highest standards. The “Panorama” editing error was a serious mistake and we welcome the BBC’s apology. However, it is obvious that the issue is being weaponised by those who want to undermine the BBC and who would profit from its demise. Without the BBC, we would be more vulnerable to dangerous misinformation and conspiracy theories, so, as the Government navigate President Trump’s latest tantrum, as he threatens to sue the BBC for $1 billion, what are the Government doing to stand up for the BBC—Britain’s BBC?
Speaking of interference by bad actors, serious concerns remain over the conduct of Sir Robbie Gibb during his tenure on the BBC board. We need to have absolute confidence that the BBC can operate free from political influence, factional interests or personal agendas. If the Government truly believe in an independent BBC, will they sack Robbie Gibb, as the BBC charter permits?
The new charter offers an opportunity to rethink the BBC appointments process and end the political grip on the BBC board. Will the Minister listen to calls from this Bench for both the chair and non-executive members of the board to be appointed by an independent body and not, as currently happens, by the Government?
The BBC cannot be allowed to fail. Mistakes will happen and should be dealt with better and more quickly, but it is essential to our democracy, is trusted by its audience, provides much more to the nation than just news and current affairs, and is globally unique. We should remember the words of Joni Mitchell —or perhaps of my noble friend Lord McNally:
“That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till it’s gone”
Please let us not be in that place.
I echo the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, in adding my gratitude to Tim Davie for his service as DG.
I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their points and questions on this matter. I am sure the BBC agrees with the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay, in his aspiration for it not to be newsworthy.
As the Secretary of State said in the other place yesterday, the BBC has a responsibility to uphold the highest standards. When standards are not met, firm, swift and transparent action must follow. Tim Davie and Deborah Turness have both taken responsibility for the mistakes that they admit the BBC has made. It is right that the Government now continue to support the BBC as an important national institution and support the BBC board in managing the transition.
Before I go further, like the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, I place on record my thanks to the outgoing director-general for his service and his commitment to public service broadcasting over many years, and I thank the CEO of news for leading the BBC News operation through turbulent times. As the Secretary of State made clear, we do not underestimate the challenges that these roles pose and the pressure that they put on those who hold them.
However, I also agree with the noble Baroness that the BBC is about more than news. This Government support a strong, independent BBC. In an age of disinformation, the argument for a robust, impartial British news service is stronger than ever. The BBC is one of the most important institutions in this country, and it has stood at the centre of our democratic and cultural life for over a century. Each of us has our own personal connection to the BBC. We can all point to the programmes that we watched growing up and the deep impact that they had on us. My own addiction to BBC News probably started with “Newsround”. The BBC continues to be an integral part of the life of almost every single person in this country, and undoubtedly every person in your Lordships’ House.
It is not possible to talk about the BBC without acknowledging the people at the heart of it and, particularly in relation to BBC News, the incredible work of BBC journalists across the country and around the world. Their tireless work enables stories to be told that would otherwise not be heard, and many BBC staff put themselves in danger in order to report fearlessly from around the world. In particular, as the Secretary of State said yesterday in the other place and as the noble Lord referenced in his remarks, the World Service is a light on the hill for people in times of darkness. We undervalue the BBC at our peril. That is why this Government will ensure that the BBC remains fiercely independent and is genuinely accountable to the public and people it serves.
I will now endeavour to answer the points raised by the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. I start by welcoming the tone of the speech by the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, and his clear commitment to preserving the BBC, but also to holding it to account. In relation to his question about the appointment of the director-general, that is a matter for the board. I am sure it is considering whether it should keep the role as it stands, but this can also be part of the governance consideration that will be looked at in the charter review, which I will come on to in a moment.
With respect to the lawsuit threatened by the President of the United States, the BBC has confirmed that it has received a letter from President Trump’s legal team. Lawyers for the BBC are now dealing with this. It would not be appropriate for me to comment or speculate on this point. The chair’s letter on Monday made it very clear that the “Panorama” edit of President Trump’s speech gave the impression of a direct call for violent action, and it included an apology for that error of judgment. As a Government, our commitment to an independent, impartial and empowered BBC is unwavering.
The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, raised the potential consolidation of public service broadcasters. It is clear that the TV market is transforming, so we are asking the CMA and Ofcom to look at how that could impact their work. At the heart of our views on this, though, we support public service broadcasters, particularly because we believe that they benefit audiences and their sustainability—however, I cannot read my own writing, as I was scribbling, so apologies if that was a bit garbled.
In relation to other topics, the noble Baroness, Lady Bonham-Carter, named Robbie Gibb. I have no doubt that noble Lords will understand that it would not be appropriate for me to comment on individuals. The Culture Secretary has been speaking regularly to the chair of the BBC board to ensure that he and the board, as a whole, are in the best possible place to lead the BBC forward. As the Culture Secretary made clear yesterday in the other place, the charter sets a strict legal threshold that must be met before dismissal of a board member, so she is unable to pursue that course of action.
In relation to questions around the timing and content of the charter review, raised by both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness, the review will consider how best to ensure that the BBC continues to deliver the high standards of reporting that the public expect, so that it does not just survive but actually thrives for decades to come. As the Secretary of State said yesterday, we will publish a Green Paper and consultation shortly. I am not going to go further than that, as I am sure your Lordships might anticipate, but I understand that “shortly” does indeed mean shortly. I look forward to future debates on this in your Lordships’ House.
I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for the points that they have raised this afternoon. I conclude, however, by reiterating the Government’s view on the BBC, which is that it is an institution of national importance and one that we will protect. We fail to protect it at our collective peril.
I ask that the noble Baroness should support the gold standard of the BBC in its reports, and in its general reporting duty.
The Secretary of State for Culture said in the other place yesterday that if we did not have the BBC, we would have to invent it. It has a proud history of over 100 years, and it can have a proud future, hopefully, of more than 100 years going forward. I concur with the noble Lord’s sentiment. Some 94% of UK adults use BBC services each month. The majority of people still believe that it is effective at providing trustworthy news. In an age of misinformation and disinformation—when we have hostile states attempting to confuse the whole context in which we are operating—it has never been more important. But we want it to be the absolute best it can be: we want that gold standard.
My Lords, I declare my interest as the presenter of a yet-to-be award-winning radio show on Times Radio. My noble friend Lord Parkinson asked the Minister whether it is still the case that one can be director-general and editor-in-chief of the BBC. Is it not time now to consider a fundamental structural reform of the BBC, in which BBC News and the World Service are made completely structurally separate from the rest of the BBC, with their own chief executive, their own board and their own accountability?
I refer the noble Lord to the charter review. As part of the review process, the Government expect to publish the terms of reference and launch a public consultation in due course. In relation to the point around the specific role of the director-general and whether different parts should be distinctly separate, I anticipate that in the first instance that would be a conversation for the board, and then for the board with the Government. It would also be a matter for the charter review in due course.
My Lords, the children’s BBC—especially CBeebies—is highly trusted. Parents feel safe and confident for their children to watch it. The content is mostly homegrown and culturally relevant, so that our children grow up understanding their world. We need to do everything in our power to protect this last bastion of high-quality content, as children migrate to unregulated online platforms. I fear for the future of this high-quality children’s content if the BBC is weakened. How are the Government going to ensure that we do not abandon children, and maintain a robust BBC? I declare an interest as a presenter of CBeebies.
I probably need to declare an interest as somebody who, as a child, watched the noble Baroness on the BBC. I have huge respect for her work and for the work of the children’s BBC, but also for the noble Baroness’s campaigning to make sure that children and young people get access to high-quality, accurate content. I know that the noble Baroness has spoken to the Secretary of State about this, but I am happy to follow up with a conversation on this point.
I am not sure I have anything other than “yes” to say in response to my noble friend. I love the BBC; we want it to be the best it can be. That is everything, as the noble Lord on the Benches opposite said, from coverage of key national moments such as Remembrance Sunday and ceremonial events to general news content and programmes such as “The Traitors”, which three generations of my family enjoyed thoroughly.
My Lords, I welcome the extremely constructive tone from all three Front Benches about the BBC and will make three points. First, the BBC, as some have said already, has been in the making for well over a century—an achievement unmatched in any other country in the world. It is a crucible for our best writers, funniest humourists, scientists, naturalists and historians—for every aspect of our culture. It is the BBC of “Strictly”, “Last Night of the Proms”, “Farming Today” and “The Archers”. Secondly, in my experience, everyone working at the BBC, from the director-general to front-line journalists, works with honest integrity and is utterly dedicated to public service. Thirdly, as with all organisations, mistakes are made. They are mostly innocent, but some are not. Some are the result of inexperience, some are the result of local management laxity and on occasions, including in my 13 years, some are the result of a wider cultural malaise. The critiques of some of the BBC’s journalism by Mr Prescott and others on all sides of the political spectrum need to be calmly considered and, where necessary, addressed. I have no doubts that, under current leadership at the BBC, they will be.
I agree with much of what the noble Lord said, although I am not clear what the question was. I can affirm that I agree whole- heartedly with the noble Lord that we have world-class programme-making and journalism at the BBC. This does not take away from the fact that the BBC also has work to do on some of the issues. We are also confident that the chair of the board is dealing with these issues. I know that the content of the letter to the chair of the Commons Culture, Media and Sport Committee outlines some of these issues and that it will hold the BBC to account. The Secretary of State is also speaking regularly to the chair of the board and is confident that he is taking this situation extremely seriously, exploring all the relevant issues and taking the necessary action to ensure we can continue to have the gold-standard journalism that everyone in your Lordships’ House would expect.
My Lords, we need to have some reality. Why are we having this Statement at all? The Prescott report revealed that the BBC flagship programme, “Panorama”, had faked a video of President Trump, and that Mr Davie and Ms Turness knew about it for six months and did nothing.
The Prescott report also exposed systematic anti-Israel bias, antisemitism at BBC Arabic and impartiality problems on the wider coverage of the Israel-Hamas war. Dr Shah, Mr Davie and Ms Turness knew this for six months, yet BBC executives were sent out to say publicly and privately that there was no systematic problem and to tell the Jewish community that there was no issue. This cover-up is the whole problem; they have been caught out. Does the Minister agree that, to regain the reputation of fairness, transparency and truth, the BBC needs to act fairly, be transparent and tell the truth?
This Government will not tolerate antisemitism; it has no place in our society. The BBC has rightly acknowledged and admitted mistakes, and the error of judgment was referred to by Dr Shah in his letter to the Commons Select Committee.
Where coverage standards and enforcement of those standards have fallen short, we are anticipating and would expect things to improve, as I have no doubt the noble Lord would understand. The chair has set out actions to address these, which we welcome, and the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee will have the opportunity to scrutinise these in due course.
However, the BBC is an incredibly important institution. It is important that we get the standards right, but it plays a crucial role in ensuring that all communities are heard and feel valued as part of our public life. That is a standard we expect, and we expect that to be driven through in any subsequent actions that the BBC might take.
The Lord Bishop of Leicester
My Lords, I have just returned from a visit to a country in west Africa that I know very well, and which has sadly suffered a number of coups in recent years. However, I can testify first-hand that the role of the BBC in such situations is highly regarded. In a situation where people do not know where to turn to find out what is happening around them, and where there are huge amounts of fear and anxiety, it is to the BBC that they turn to find out what is happening. I believe that remains true today, even in the face of mistakes that have been made. Can the Minister reassure us that the BBC will continue to have the people and resources needed to play this vital role internationally?
The World Service is renowned and revered the world over. I can reassure the right reverend Prelate that this Government believe that it plays an essential role in our global democracy. As the Secretary of State said in her remarks yesterday, which have been repeated in your Lordships’ House, it is a light on the hill for people in places of darkness. This Government strongly support the World Service and will continue to do so.
My Lords, I think it is now broadly accepted that the BBC made a serious error in broadcasting the edited clip on “Panorama”, and that it did not act swiftly enough to issue an apology. But it is deeply concerning to hear today from respected BBC journalists Kirsty Lang and Misha Glenny that they are firmly convinced that the BBC is under an unprecedented level of political pressure that threatens its future existence. They rightly say that allowing the BBC to fail would be disastrous for our democracy and Britain’s reputation around the world.
Will my noble friend the Minister work with the Secretary of State to address these deep concerns about political pressures? Will we do whatever we can to improve the governance of the BBC? Will those of us who support the BBC as our most trusted news brand be vocal, as we are mainly in today’s Statement, in our support for our national broadcaster, particularly as it now has to fill those two difficult leadership roles and prepare to go forward to the charter review?
For any public service broadcaster, accountability and trust are key, including in relation to the board. But what is important here is that the BBC maintains the high standards for which it is rightfully recognised, both nationally and internationally. It is right that the Government continue to support and work with the BBC, as an important national institution, and to manage the leadership transition. A number of the issues that my noble friend raised are likely to be addressed through the charter review, but I would be happy to meet with her to discuss the concerns that have been raised with her directly and to make sure that the Secretary of State is aware of them.
My Lords, there can be no doubt that what happened on “Panorama” was both wrong and damaging, but will the Minister agree with me that there is no institutional bias within the BBC? There are hard-working journalists seeking after the truth and sometimes they get it wrong. We all need a BBC that is confident about its future: a strong BBC at the cornerstone of our public life and creative economy, a powerful purveyor of this country’s soft power and a beacon of impartial news for all. It seems to me that the BBC is now more vulnerable than I have ever known it. Restoring confidence must be the key. Will the Minister look at ways of ensuring that the charter process, which is a defining moment for the BBC, is made available so that the new director-general can come in, take the helm and drive that process on behalf of all of us who believe in a strong BBC?
Will she also agree that one way of strengthening the BBC’s independence is to make this almost the last charter review process? This is used as a way of upsetting, damaging and taking questions about something as important as the BBC each time. Saying that there is a charter that runs on and on would be an amazing legacy from this Government for the BBC.
On whether this Government believe that the BBC is institutionally biased, I say no, we do not. The BBC provides trusted news and high-quality programming. It is important that it maintains that trust and rebuilds it by correcting mistakes quickly when they occur. I agree that, for any public service broadcaster, accountability is important to maintain trust. Arguably, the charter review process comes at a good point in the BBC’s history, because it will enable us to have a national conversation, including voices from across the political spectrum and across the country, to make sure we get the right outcome both for the BBC and, more importantly, the country.
My Lords, following on from what the noble Baroness said about the BBC having voices from across the country, we have heard a lot about the problems occurring at the BBC emanating out of London, but I am sure the noble Baroness knows that BBC Scotland is in crisis at the moment. We have a long-standing presenter who has been suspended, we have our flagship radio news programme under review and we have an election to the Scottish Parliament in May. It is extremely important that BBC Scotland, as a characterful voice that is respected across the different genres, is put in order in time for that election. So what are the Government doing, and what can the noble Baroness do, to ensure that the voices of the nations and regions are heard through our BBC?
The Secretary of State said yesterday that she has voiced her concerns about the overwhelming concentration of the media industry being from one background and in one region. The noble Baroness makes a valid point and I will feed it back to the Secretary of State and Minister Murray. However, I highlight the work that the BBC has done over the years in this area—albeit from an English regional perspective—not least in MediaCity in Salford and through its work at Digbeth Loc in Birmingham. We are clear that this is important to make sure that the BBC does not represent the views of just one part of the country or one demographic. We are clear that that will also be part of the charter review, although the issues that the noble Baroness raises need to be addressed before the elections next year.
(1 month, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberMy Lords, this is a shameful state of affairs, sending a message that groups of fans and indeed groups of people across our country are not safe on the streets of Britain. Can the Minister tell us when the Government were first told by the safety advisory group that it was intending to advise a ban on Maccabi Tel Aviv fans attending this football match? Were any Government departments besides her own notified before DCMS was aware of it?
My Lords, I very much associate myself with the noble Lord’s sentiment of being appalled. Discrimination in all forms, including antisemitism, is fundamentally opposed to our British values of fairness, decency and respect. In relation to the noble Lord’s question, the Home Office, through the UK football policing unit, was involved in the risk assessment process led by West Midlands Police. Banning away fans was one of a package of potential operational options being considered. The initial ban was confirmed by Birmingham City Council only last Thursday and this is when intervention from the Secretary of State, DCMS, and broader government intervention began.
My Lords, can the Minister go a bit further about the Government’s activity? It is quite clear this was not a conventional situation for the local boards that were operating. Is there not some structure by which this intelligence can be brought forward to make sure that local authorities know that there is support from outside available to them, as the Government now seem to be telling us there was?
Clearly, we need to look at why no request for additional resource through mutual aid, which is quite a standard process, was sought beforehand. I assure your Lordships’ House that, as soon as the decision was made known, the Culture Secretary, Home Secretary and Community Secretary had extensive discussions with the police, local government and others, trying to come up with a form of support that would enable the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans to be present at the match. Noble Lords will be aware, however, that since then Maccabi Tel Aviv has decided to refuse any allocation of tickets. I assure the noble Lord that the Government were very active in trying to resolve the issue, particularly over the weekend after this became known.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that this incident has increased the perception of the UK, here and abroad, as an unpleasant, indeed hostile, place for the Jewish community? The obsession of some politicians with banning the attendance by Maccabi has increased it. Does the Minister agree that it is not enough for the Government to carry on saying, “We will not tolerate antisemitism?” It is not enough for the Government to say, “Here is a few more million pounds for security”. That is just whack-a-mole. Instead of spending money on security, the Government need to get to the roots of where antisemitism is coming from. I suggest it has come from the way young people have been taught nonsense about colonialism and apartheid, and from religious teaching. Does the Minister agree that it is time to bring together all the Jewish organisations and get their collective wisdom to deal with the roots of this and not just stick more plaster on it?
We know people are scared, including people in your Lordships’ House. We also know that there is no easy answer, but no answer is appropriate without the involvement of the community. This Government are working with the community to try and address this. Antisemitism is an age-old hatred, and responsibility lies with each and every one of us to fix what is clearly broken. We will use every lever available to the Government to make sure that we build community cohesion and tackle extremist hate wherever it is found across society. I know all my colleagues will agree with me that words are not enough; we will take the action that is required to address this.
My Lords, I declare my interest as set out in the register. What plans do the Government have to ensure that they can call in and, if necessary, overturn decisions made by safety advisory groups, and what would the implications be for the operational independence of chief constables?
The Government are clear that there should be operational independence for the police; it is one of the fundamental tenets of our democracy. The safety advisory group role has been much debated, but it is generally seen as a role that works consistently and has an advisory function. What would have been desirable here would have been for those discussions to have taken place and been escalated sooner, before the decision was made. That is a matter for the MHCLG to deal with going forward; however, at the moment MHCLG is working hard on the immediate issue around community cohesion. I think it is right that we allow operational decisions to be made by the appropriate people, but we also need that to happen within the wider context. Clearly, there was a much wider context, and there were much wider potential repercussions of the decision. That will be a matter for MHCLG to discuss with local government.
My Lords, the Statement says:
“It is a long-established principle, set out in law, that the … safety advisory group are operationally independent of government, and that it is for them to take decisions on safety”,
as the Minister has repeated today, but would the Minister agree that this is only half the story? The Safety of Sports Grounds Act, in legislation which I piloted through another place as the Minister responsible, ensures that safety advisory groups must routinely consider relevant government advice and policies, such as from the Home Office on crowd management. Why did it take until the weekend to offer clear, unequivocal advice that nobody in our country would be excluded from football matches because of who they are or their legally held beliefs? Can the Minister assure the House that discussions are under way with safety advisory groups to ensure the full protection of Jewish community fan groups at matches this weekend and in the future?
In relation to the second point made by the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, absolutely: the safety of Jewish fans is of the utmost importance and priority to this Government. On the safety advisory groups, I have not been party to all the discussions with the people concerned, but my understanding is that the resource implications did not get escalated to the right level. That is not an excuse for it happening, but now that we know it happened, we can address it for the future. I know that my colleagues across government are desperately keen to make sure that this happens.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that inflammatory and racist comments by a local Member of Parliament in this matter are an absolute disgrace and contrary to all decent concepts of British values, shared by almost every Muslim as well as every Jew in our population?
I could not agree more wholeheartedly with the noble Lord. I found it absolutely appalling that a Member of Parliament would initiate a petition of the nature and content that the relevant local MP did. It also highlights the need for us to be clear that, while we might want political interference through the Government in one way, political interference was clearly also at the heart of what went wrong in this instance.
My Lords, it seems clear that the main motivation locally was in fact to boycott Israel. None the less, it is necessary to get clear the degree of blame that has been attributed to the fans of Maccabi Tel Aviv. There is an account in the Guardian today which seems seriously distorted. Have the Government got it clear in their own mind, at least for all useful purposes, that while there may well have been bad behaviour, hooliganism and even some racist behaviour by a minority of fans in Amsterdam, the majority of the harm was committed against them and not by them? It is important to capture the picture that the Government have of what happened in Amsterdam, because it has been recycled a lot.
My understanding of what happened in Amsterdam is as the noble Baroness has just outlined. One of the things that I found most appalling about the decision that was made is that it was based on the risk to fans, primarily. In a country where we manage violence associated with football on a regular basis, we cannot have a situation in which it is the risk to fans which means that those fans themselves are barred from a sporting or other public event.
(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government, further to the Written Answer by Baroness Twycross on 16 September (HL10228) and following media reports in August of Redbird Capital Partners’ formal notification to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to acquire Telegraph Media Group, when they will update Parliament on action they are taking to resolve the Telegraph’s ownership and ensure compliance with Chapter 3A of the Enterprise Act 2002.
Noble Lords may have seen press reports that the department has received a formal request from RedBird IMI to progress the sale of the call option to own the Telegraph. Thorough due diligence will be conducted on the proposed transaction, and should the Secretary of State have reasonable grounds to suspect either public interest or foreign state influence concerns, she will intervene. The Telegraph Media Group remains protected under pre-emptive action order. The Secretary of State will inform Parliament when regulatory decisions are made, as is consistent with standard practice.
My Lords, I am grateful for the Minister’s confirmation that the formal bid has been received and that during this phase of scrutiny the existing protections for the Telegraph remain in place. I very much hope that the Secretary of State will soon be able to say that she is minded to involve the CMA and Ofcom in the scrutiny of this bid. That will be important, should she decide to give it the go-ahead, for our future confidence in the Telegraph’s editorial independence. Meanwhile, can the Minister please confirm that the regulations to prevent multiple 15% equity stakes from state investment funds will be laid before the end of this month and applied to this case? Will she also make clear—and confirm, I hope—that the 15% is an absolute cap, and that any financial arrangements such as debt or earnout on top of a state investment fund’s proposed 15% stake would go against the intention of those regulations?
I thank the noble Baroness for her engagement, not least with me, with the Secretary of State and with officials, which has enabled us to get to what I hope everyone agrees is a better place than where we were previously. I would like to reassure her that we still intend to lay the regulations preventing multiple foreign state-owned investors owning an aggregate of more than 15% of UK newspapers by the end of this month. This cap will apply to any live merger at the time it comes into effect. The cap means that state-owned investors can own up to a maximum of 15% of the total shares or voting rights in a UK newspaper, provided that their investment is passive. We are absolutely clear that the overall intention of the policy is that a foreign state should not have any control or influence. This is what the Secretary of State considers carefully when she looks at the details of each case.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, I associate myself with all the comments about the Lord Speaker—or, at least, with all those that we have heard so far.
As we know, a fund with Abu Dhabi money, and probably Chinese money, is acquiring what in global terms is a small media player. It is relatively small, but the Telegraph is significant in the UK, and the best explanation of their motives that I can come up with is that they are buying influence. With that in mind, will the Minister commit that her department will investigate any prima facie breaches of the orders protecting the Telegraph from influence by RedBird—breaches that may already have occurred? Will she commit to publishing the investigation’s findings?
It would be inappropriate for me to comment on any live merger case, as I am sure the noble Lord will be aware. Under the Enterprise Act this is a quasi-judicial process, and it is for the DCMS Secretary of State alone to exercise her statutory powers, based on the evidence and following the established regulatory process. As for publication, I will write to the noble Lord to clarify the points he raises.
My Lords, do we not need to review the whole issue of ownership of newspapers in the UK? Bearing in mind that papers such as the Express and the Mail are nothing more than propaganda, do we not need some balance in a democracy, to make sure that people who are rich do not influence our politics too much?
My noble friend raises an interesting point. The ownership of our media is an interesting area. The tradition of having a broad church of opinions expressed through our media is important, and is one of the cornerstones of our democracy.
My Lords, may I ask the Minister for some clarification? She talked about a 15% limit for a foreign state having an interest, but what if a number of foreign states got together and each bought up to a maximum of 15%? Is that also being considered by the Government?
The noble Lord’s point is exactly the point that the noble Baroness, Lady Stowell, has been raising with the Government. It will be addressed by the statutory instrument that is intended to be laid by the end of the month.
My Lords, will the Secretary of State, as part of her consideration, keep open the possibility of invoking the National Security and Investment Act in this case, given the indirect involvement of China in the consortium bidding for the Telegraph?
The Secretary of State’s consideration is for her alone. However, noble Lords will be aware that it is possible to have cases of this nature considered under the National Security and Investment Act if the transaction is deemed to raise national security concerns.
My Lords, we know from the witness statements released overnight that the Deputy National Security Adviser considers that China
“presents the biggest state-based threat to the UK’s economic security”,
but also that the present Government are
“committed to pursuing a positive economic relationship”
with it. Given that, and not in relation to the case under consideration but in general terms, can the Minister tell us what sort of percentage stake in a British newspaper the Government would be comfortable with a Chinese state investor obtaining?
I will not go into hypothetical examples. All the instances raised would be examined on a case-by-case basis. The noble Lord will be aware that we are deeply disappointed that the case he referenced has not gone to trial; we really did want to see prosecutions.
I will ask the Minister a more general question. Are the Government considering whether 15% may be too high?
We have settled on 15% as the cumulative amount, and this House had the opportunity to debate it at some length in July. Whether that is one FSI, one state-owned investor or a number of state-owned investors, it will not exceed 15%. The Competition and Markets Authority has been clear that it does not consider that a material influence would be likely to occur below 25%, so 15% is well within that limit.
Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)
My Lords, on the topic of media ownership, can the Government please clarify why the Senedd is not having a say on the appointment of the chair of S4C?
I will need to write to the noble Baroness on that matter, as it did not come up in the preparation for this Question and I do not want to give an incorrect answer.
Further to my noble friend Lord Newby’s question on whether China is part of the consortium, and given what the Deputy National Security Adviser said about China being a threat, why would this not automatically trigger a referral through the provisions under the National Security and Investment Act?
There are no specific rules relating to the media merger regime on hostile states, but the bar for intervention within the regime is low. I would like to reassure the noble Lord that any sale of the Telegraph will be subject to the regime. As I stated earlier, it could be considered under the National Security and Investment Act if the Secretary of State deems, in her considerations, that the transaction would raise national security concerns. As I said earlier, it would be inappropriate for me to comment on a live merger case; this is a quasi-judicial process, and it is for the Secretary of State to determine the matter.
(3 months ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made towards improving the conditions of trade between the UK and the EU with regard to the arts and creative industries, including for touring musicians.
My Lords, the Government have reset relations positively with European partners, agreeing a substantial package at the first UK-EU summit in May. This included a commitment to support travel and cultural exchange, recognising the value of artistic exchange, including the activities of touring artists. We will continue to engage with the European Commission to deliver this commitment. It is mutually beneficial and it will help our artists to contribute to Europe’s rich cultural landscape and support shared growth.
My Lords, the almost five years since we left the single market have already cost us tens of billions of pounds in trade—that includes the creative industries—not to mention the red tape and frustration that continues to be experienced on a daily basis. For musicians touring, there has been no resolution of the problems of cabotage, carnets, CITES, the need for a visa-waiver agreement and the 90 in 180-day limit, which particularly affects ancillary staff. Bands cannot afford to tour; income and opportunities are lost. I say to the Minister: enough warm words, we need action.
The noble Earl outlines the range of issues that the Government need to work through. There is action; it is a high priority for this Government, and it was a manifesto commitment to address these issues. The Prime Minister mentioned it as top of the list in relation to the EU reset to the Liaison Committee, and it came up in the Foreign Affairs Committee earlier this week. This is something that Ministers are actively working through, and I know that it is a priority for the new DCMS Minister covering this area and for the Secretary of State.
My Lords, the Welsh Government promote creative arts and education through the creative learning through the arts programme. Its aim is to integrate arts and creativity into the core of the education system, ensuring that all learners have access to creative experiences, regardless of their background. Does my noble friend agree that this is something that the UK Government could explore for young people in England?
There are a number of ways in which the UK Government are working towards ensuring youth mobility and exchange. We are working towards association with Erasmus+ on mutually agreed financial terms with the EU. We want to ensure that any agreement reflects a fair balance between the UK financial contribution and the number of UK participants. I am aware of the work that the Government in Wales have done on this and that many young people have benefited from that programme.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that we have been giving those bureaucrats who like designing red tape an absolute charter to have a field day on this? When will they give us a reduction of, say, 25% in the number of forms that you have to fill in? At the moment, it is just ridiculous.
I repeat that this is a high priority. A number of noble Lords asking questions today have highlighted how complex this is in terms of reducing the bureaucracy. I can only reiterate that large parts of the Civil Service are working very hard to ensure that the bureaucracy is reduced. It remains a priority for this Government and for DCMS.
My Lords, touring artists are important for not only the UK economy but our soft power. Can the Minister update the House on the progress being made by the UK Soft Power Council in putting together a coherent and effective soft power strategy for the UK?
I agree that they are an important part of soft power. I revert to the noble Lord on specifics around the UK Soft Power Council, which he has managed successfully to segue to from a quite specific Question. I will write to the noble Lord in due course.
My Lords, before the EU-UK summit in May, I raised the issue of withholding tax which impacts our orchestras when they tour in Germany, Spain and Italy. In Germany, withholding tax is reclaimable, but it can take two years to be refunded. One orchestra has £200,000 outstanding and will shortly claim another £50,000 but then have to wait two years. Removing or reforming Article 17 of the UK’s tax treaties with the EU or its member states could help to resolve this. Can my noble friend the Minister tell me whether our Government will try to find a resolution of this vital issue, which is having such a detrimental impact on the cash flow of British orchestras touring to the EU?
My noble friend raises a really important point. The Government recognise the financial and administrative challenges that withholding tax presents for UK artists touring the EU. We are actively engaged with the sector to better understand the impact and explore ways to mitigate these burdens, but we appreciate that this is a significant burden on those who are already facing challenges touring the EU. As a result of all these questions, I will flag this debate to the incoming Minister so that he is aware of concerns within your Lordships’ House and of the wider issues that the questions highlight.
My Lords, next month the long-delayed additional travel document requirements come in. Have the Government done any work on calculating how much these will add to the delays, particularly for orchestras needing to move instruments through customs with heavy lorries, and how costly this will be?
All the questions today highlight the significant range of challenges. There are ongoing discussions at a variety of levels within government with the EU as part of the discussions following the EU reset. I will not give a running commentary on negotiations, but I am happy to meet the noble Baroness to talk about this in more detail.
The Earl of Effingham (Con)
My Lords, it is clear that barriers for touring artists are bad news for the UK’s £7 billion music industry and for an already squeezed economy. Over 20 EU member states have confirmed that they offer UK musicians visa and work permit-free short-term touring for UK musicians. However, the EU’s policies mean that there are still barriers. Can the Minister explain exactly how the Government are engaging with the remaining individual member states to remove these barriers, or will they commit to resolve this at an EU level? Please, can we have some detail?
I appreciate that this is a question for me from His Majesty’s Opposition, but these are things that presumably came up as part of the impact assessment when we withdrew from the EU.
My Lords, music is international. Having spent many summers touring with youth orchestras, for whom the problems are just as great as those for the professional musicians that have been referred to in the noble Earl’s Question, can my noble friend please add to the list of things that the Government are hoping to negotiate easier arrangements for youth orchestras to tour in Europe? It enriches their lives in every possible way, musically and in terms of travel.
Absolutely—we are looking to increase youth mobility through any scheme that creates new opportunities for young Britons to travel, whether as part of wider academic experience or exchange of culture, including youth orchestras.
My Lords, if this is such an important area for the Government, why do they not take action in those areas which lie within their own competence, such as making the St Pancras terminal CITES capable? Surely our negotiations with the EU would go better if we put our own house in order first.
Our priority remains keeping arrangements as straightforward and supportive as possible for musicians and the creative industries. I recognise how important musical instrument certificates are for touring musicians in the wider creative sector. There are no plans, however, to make St Pancras International a CITES-designated port.
My Lords, would it not be slightly easier if the Government’s approach to the reset with the EU was a little less timid? We could then begin to tackle some of the unnecessary bureaucracy and delays. There is a customs union that we could be renegotiating, and we could move further on that. We want a little more courage from the Government in standing up to the right-wing press and to the legacy of the Conservatives and now Reform.
I do not recognise the timidity that the noble Lord suggests that this Government are approaching this with. This Government have been extremely clear on what our priorities are for the EU reset. That includes not going in aggressively but working constructively with our EU neighbours to ensure that we get the right outcome to deal with the huge range of issues that have been highlighted by this important Question this morning.
(3 months, 1 week ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government whether they will set out a timetable for the implementation of the various parts of the Football Governance Act 2025.
Every effort is being made to ensure that the independent football regulator is up and running as soon as possible. This includes consultation with industry and passing essential secondary legislation required for the regulator to carry out its functions. There are some important milestones coming up, including the recruitment of a CEO and the appointment of the regulator’s board. A shadow regulator team is already in place, carrying out the preparatory work required to ensure the regulator is operational as quickly as possible.
My Lords, I very much welcome the Minister’s reply, and perhaps I should declare my interest as the only known member of the Brighton & Hove Albion (Lords) Supporters’ Club. Given the Euros success of the Lionesses this summer, the upcoming expanded Women’s Super League and the growth of the women’s transfer market, does the Minister foresee a time when the women’s game will need to enter a system of regulation? Also, can the Minister say how the Government see the role of the regulator developing to tackle the problems experienced this summer by Sheffield Wednesday and Morecambe FC?
Alongside millions across the country, I was really proud to watch the Lionesses’ victory this summer, and I hope this continues to grow the game and inspire girls across the country. Karen Carney OBE led an independent review of domestic women’s football, published in July 2023. We agree with the recommendation that the women’s game should be given the opportunity to self-regulate, rather than moving immediately to independent statutory regulation. Should it be appropriate to do so in the future, we could include the women’s game. On Sheffield Wednesday and Morecambe, it is precisely because of such situations that we took decisive action to introduce the Football Governance Act.
My Lords, the nomination of David Kogan as the new football regulator has been widely welcomed in football and beyond—his capability and deep knowledge of the game are well recognised. Mr Kogan’s appointment was first announced in April, but four months later he is yet to be confirmed. The uncertainty affecting Morecambe FC and Sheffield Wednesday over the summer, to which the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, just referred, amply underlines why the sooner we have a football regulator up and running, with a chair, a board and an executive, the better. When does the Minister think this will all happen?
I was delighted to see David Kogan endorsed as the Government’s preferred candidate for chair of the regulator. David was subject to a pre-appointment hearing with the CMS Select Committee on 7 May, giving Members of Parliament an opportunity to scrutinise this important appointment before it is made. The committee endorsed David’s appointment, noting his extensive football and media experience. As noble Lords will be aware, the Commissioner for Public Appointments is conducting an inquiry into the process and DCMS is co-operating fully. No conclusion has been reached at this stage and it would not be appropriate for me to comment further.
My Lords, following on from the noble Lord’s observation about the women’s football team, I take the opportunity to welcome and congratulate the Rugby Football Union on the excellent start to the Women’s Rugby World Cup tournament. Rick Parry, the chairman of the EFL, at a meeting of an all-party group on football a few months back, commented that he saw that the necessity in terms of regulation in this country and the numbers employed should be somewhere between six and 99—preferably closer to six. Does the Minister agree with Mr Parry’s observation? If not, why not?
Does the noble Lord mean in relation to how many people are employed by the regulator? To be honest, that will be largely down to the incoming regulator itself. As the noble Lord will be aware from our lengthy discussions during the passage through Parliament of the Bill, now an Act, there is a broad understanding of what we think the overall operational costs will be. We put them at around £8 million to £10 million. Clearly, the staffing costs, as well as other operational costs, would need to come within that.
My Lords, can the Government give us further reassurance that they will not only look at the body they have created and make sure that it is functioning quickly but give it the backing it will need to take on vested interests? We have this periodic disaster in which people nearly lose their clubs again and again; we have had it in the past, and we are supposed to be getting rid of it. Do the Government agree?
The Football Governance Act 2025 was put in place exactly to address the issues that the noble Lord identifies. As I said in my initial Answer, to make sure that we do not see any repeat of previous issues, every effort is being made to ensure that the independent football regulator is up and running as soon as possible. It is vital to ensure that we get the regulator on a firm footing and able to address the issues facing the game.
My Lords, I declare an interest as a Sheffield Wednesday supporter. I think that noble Lords will understand why I am returning to the issue of what is unfolding as a Greek tragedy. The solidarity payments paid wages for August, but a tragedy is unfolding in front of us. I make an appeal to my noble friend and to the Secretary of State to move beyond the normal speed with which the Civil Service works, which I remember very well. This is not a matter of the great phrase “working at pace”; it is about getting people off their bums and getting this regulator up and running this autumn. If we do not, the impact on the pyramid and the league will be considerable.
My noble friend might observe that I did not use the term “working at pace”, which as it happens was in the original draft of my initial response. In all seriousness, though, we understand and share my noble friend’s concerns. We are keen for the current ownership to bring the issues facing Sheffield Wednesday—we do not underestimate them—to an appropriate resolution as quickly as possible. The Minister for Sport has already spoken with Clive Betts MP, who has been a strong advocate, as have others, for Sheffield Wednesday. The Minister for Sport is also meeting the Sheffield Wednesday Supporters’ Trust on 8 September.
My Lords, as everyone seems to be registering an interest, I will register one as a Liverpool football fan. Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, I am not alone. The transfer window, which has just closed, was a great success, especially for Liverpool. The Premier League continues to be a great success. I urge the Government and the Minister to urge the regulator not to tinker with this great British success, the Premier League.
Clearly, we are really proud of the Premier League and of English and British football. It is our national game. However, the genesis of the Football Governance Act was based on some real issues within the game of football and the entire pyramid, and I expect and anticipate that the chair of the regulator will see these as a key priority, while not undermining the competitiveness of the Premier League.
My Lords, does the Minister agree that it would be wrong to single out clubs such as Morecambe and Sheffield Wednesday as outliers or exceptional? I say that because, in the last two seasons, all 24 clubs in our second tier—the EFL Championship—have generated operating losses, with wage bills continuing to spiral. The clubs together now carry a debt of £1.5 billion. Time is surely not on the regulator’s side.
This is exactly why we intend to get the regulator up as quickly as possible.
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Birt, said, many people across football are looking forward to working with David Kogan, but one of the difficulties that he and the new independent regulator have is that the process for appointing him is still under investigation by the commissioner for public standards. Has Mr Kogan been able to start his work, pending the outcome of that investigation? Has the noble Baroness’s department been given any indication of how much longer it might continue?
I should not comment on the inquiry being carried out by the Commissioner for Public Appointments—as I said earlier, this is ongoing. The noble Lord will be aware that David Kogan has met a number of Members of this House, and he is fully engaged with the task ahead at the point at which he is able to be appointed formally.
(4 months, 2 weeks ago)
Lords ChamberThat the Order laid before the House on 26 June be approved.
Relevant document: 31st Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee