(1 day, 14 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
I declare my role as a member of the Ecclesiastical Committee.
I am grateful that we have been granted this opportunity to discuss a serious matter of importance to our constituents, to the Church of England, and most importantly to the victims and survivors of abuse. I am grateful to all right hon. and hon. Members who are here on behalf of their constituents.
As a Member of Parliament and a Christian who believes in the Church and the positive, powerful role it plays in our communities, I believe that the stories of survivors and their calls for change must be heard, both here today and by the General Synod of the Church of England. For those in the Chamber, in the Gallery and at home, it is important to note that this debate may include difficult matters. I trust that it will be a measured debate. This is a sensitive topic, and I know that Members on both sides will want to advance the interests of those who have suffered abuse within the Church.
My constituent Dame Jasvinder Sanghera will be known to Members across the House for her campaigning on abuse of many kinds. She served as the survivor advocate on the Church of England’s independent safeguarding board. In this role, she worked closely with survivors, some of whom join us today. My team and I have worked with her since my election last year. Along with her colleague Steve Reeves, she has advocated for survivors by escalating their cases for review, challenging processes and pushing for justice. I commend her and her work.
In preparation for this debate, I met members of the group of survivors involved with the independent safeguarding board sample cases—they call themselves the ISB 11. I have heard stories that I will never forget. What struck me most is that they see themselves as survivors not only of the initial abuse they received but of the Church’s safeguarding process—one that has forced these brave and courageous people, who have stood up to power, to re-live, lengthen and even amplify the abuse they have received.
Dawn Butler (Brent East) (Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend for the way he is setting out this debate. Does he agree that independent safeguarding is paramount? As he said, survivors of abuse have had to re-live it over and over. This is an establishment where they should have felt safest.
Luke Myer
I could not agree more; that is the crux of my speech. It is essential that the victims and survivors are heard. I am grateful to the Minister and the Second Church Estates Commissioner, both of whom are leaders on these matters, for being here to hear the stories and to respond.
The stories include that of Mr X, who was the first and only survivor to have an ISB case review published. Throughout his life, Mr X has sought justice after he was abused by three individuals in the Church. He ended up having his business and livelihood destroyed by civil litigation and he is yet to see justice. Another survivor told me of an ongoing, decades-long fight for justice. West Midlands police commented on the case:
“it doesn’t normally take 20 years for a complaint to be investigated”.
Another survivor, a woman who wishes to remain anonymous, told me that she now has a heart monitor because of her severe panic attacks. She told me:
“The priest that abused me still lives in my area. The community has ostracised me and I am now housebound, I want the truth to come out. Jas and Steve have supported me the best they can, at one point we talked every week. If they had not been there I think I would have taken my life.”
Another survivor told me that he feels that previous recommendations have fallen on deaf ears, with steps to protect perpetrators rather than to support victims. Perhaps most harrowingly of all, one of the ISB 11, who is just over 18 years old, having initially suffered abuse at the age of eight, is still fighting for justice. At such a young age, he has already been waiting over half his life to see justice. I have no doubt that many Members across this House will have heard similar stories.
Alison Bennett (Mid Sussex) (LD)
I thank the hon. Member for securing this important debate and for setting out what has happened in such measured terms. Mr X is a constituent of mine. I spoke to him this afternoon, and he described to me the catalogue of betrayals that he has been subject to from the age of 12 until now at the age of 56, initially through the abuse and then through subsequent failings by the Church of England. I thank my constituent for retelling his story to me; it is the 28th time that he has had to re-tell the story to a stranger. I thank him for sticking his neck out to try to get change. He told me that he has lost the ability to walk away from this. Does the hon. Member agree that it is only through meaningful accountability from the Church of England that he will get justice?
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I commend the hon. Gentleman, who I spoke to beforehand, for securing the debate. I, like others, seek some level of legal process, whatever that may be. Does he agree that the Church of England and all charitable bodies must be subject to the law of the land in exactly the same manner, whether religious or non-religious? Those working with vulnerable adults or children should have training and background searches, whether they are in a church hall or a local community hall. Safeguarding has to be of the same standard across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Justice is what we are after.
Luke Myer
I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. His point reminds me of a line from the second report by Alexis Jay; I spoke to her at the weekend and she reiterated this to me. It says that that the
“Church safeguarding service falls below the standards for consistency expected and set in secular organisations”,
whether those be local authorities or anything else.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. He is right that many constituencies have been affected. Members will have constituents who have suffered abuse in a place where they should have felt very safe. It is the same for the constituent who contacted me: he participated in football activities and experienced abuse as a young child that has affected the whole of his life. His mental health has been shredded.
There has been a lack of accountability, a lack of seriousness and slow pace from the Church of England when it comes to taking such cases seriously and giving people the justice they feel is necessary. The Church just does not seem to be catching up with the expectations of modern society and the safeguarding that happens in every other institution and organisation that works with young people and vulnerable people. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Church really has to pull its socks up and get its act together if it is to restore the faith that this country should have in this most honoured of institutions?
Luke Myer
I completely agree with my hon. Friend, who is a real champion for her constituent and all her constituents. Sadly, the case that she has outlined is all too familiar and like many other cases across the country.
We owe it to the survivors and others who have endured physical, emotional and spiritual abuse to highlight the serious shortcomings in the Church’s safeguarding structures. Too often, while instances of abuse may have lasted moments, the Church’s processes for investigating and reviewing these cases have been painfully slow, frustrated and needlessly complex. It cannot be right that the systems intended to support survivors often further traumatised them.
I, too, have been told stories of those who tragically have taken their own lives in the view that their perpetrators will never face justice. Survivors tell me of feeling trapped in a seemingly endless cycle of uncertainty and distress. One told me that they will not feel fully comfortable while this issue is
“kept within the walls of the Church.”
Ms Polly Billington (East Thanet) (Lab)
I appreciate my hon. Friend’s efforts in getting the debate held. I have previously raised in the House the possibility of holding the Church of England accountable to the public through being subject to the strictures of the Freedom of Information Act. I was advised that that was unsuitable because it is technically not a public body, and yet it is an institution and part of the fabric of this country.
It is unconscionable for people who use and revere this institution to find that they are not safe in it, that instead it protects its own—it protects perpetrators—and that the people right at the top use the excuse of legal constructions or institutional formations to justify not pursuing these situations. Does my hon. Friend agree that as legislators we must argue for greater transparency in the Church of England, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said about other public bodies?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. Before the hon. Member gets back to his feet, I should say that, although I can see that this is a serious and important debate, interventions must be short.
Luke Myer
I completely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for East Thanet (Ms Billington), who has had a long career holding powerful people to account in many different ways. As she outlined, this is a case of an institution for which it is difficult to get accountability and transparency. I am glad that we have this forum to discuss these issues, but Parliament itself is quite limited in how it can hold the Church to account.
I sit on the Ecclesiastical Committee, which has to wait for Measures to come forward from the Synod to be approved. There is some discussion as to whether that Committee ought to have greater powers to hold the Church to account, but the broader point is the same as the one I made earlier, which is that the Church falls below the standards required of other organisations.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for bringing forward this debate and for the way in which he is doing so. Does he agree that the technical nuances that caused the Church of England to go for option 3 rather than option 4 could be overcome by formulating a process of accountability around the safeguarding structures within the Church of England, to ensure that any provider of such services had a strong line of communication in order to hear what is needed in places such as York, where we have a cathedral, which I understand is where some of the challenges are coming from?
Luke Myer
I agree with my hon. Friend. Various issues were raised at Synod, and one of them was around the Charity Commission. I have discussed this precise issue with Professor Jay, and it is her view that there is nothing in this that cannot be resolved. I understand that the Charity Commission is taking a direct interest in safeguarding at the moment, and I hope that an arrangement can be made on that, but the point that my hon. Friend makes is right. There are too many blockers, culturally and in terms of technical details, but what the Church needs to do is move forward with pace and make sure that victims and survivors see justice.
It is our responsibility in this House to do all we can to urge the Church to act so that these failures are addressed, survivors’ voices are heard and meaningful, sensible and effective reforms are implemented. We touched on one of the main reforms earlier, and I will come to that in a moment, but before I do, let me be clear that I have the utmost respect for local clergy up and down the country who are doing so much work within our communities. I also respect the laity and all the volunteers who are doing good work to keep people safe, including the church wardens and the local parish safeguarding officers. They too are let down by systemic failure and many of them are crying out for change. In fact, it is my understanding that the sample carried out by the Church’s response group to the Jay report finds that not only survivors, but the majority of local clergy support the recommendations.
I also wish to recognise the work of many members of the General Synod, and in particular Clive Billenness, a lay member of the Synod who represented the Diocese in Europe and was a powerful ally of victims and survivors. He sadly passed away just last month, and I know that survivors truly valued his efforts and contribution to their cause. I also recognise the work of my own constituent, Father Adam Gaunt of Loftus, who has helped me to understand the structures of Synod and is working on the abuse redress scheme as well.
Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)
The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful speech. Speaking as a member of the Church of England and someone who has served on parochial church councils and as a church warden, I recognise how important it is that we move forward. He mentioned moving forward a moment ago, but in order to do that, is it not necessary for the leadership of the Church to take a lead on this? I say this with the Second Church Estates Commissioner, the hon. Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) listening to the debate. Surely the sooner we have a new Archbishop of Canterbury who can lead the Church and hopefully provide dynamic leadership for that institution, the better. Only then can the Church of England move forward.
Luke Myer
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The Church has been making various decisions on this, but it has not been moving forward with the required pace. My intention in bringing forward this debate is to shine a light on that and urge it to act with pace. I thank him for making that point.
I have listed various individuals and groups within the Church, and my intention in this debate is not to diminish or tarnish any of their contributions but to highlight how processes have not functioned and how survivors have been let down, and what we can do as a House to encourage the Church to implement better structures.
The journey of safeguarding reform in the Church is long and complex. It runs from the Clergy Discipline Measure 2003 through the past cases reviews in the 2000s, the Chichester visitation in 2012, the establishment of the national safeguarding panel and national safeguarding team in 2014 and 2015, the Stobart review in 2018, the Social Care Institute for Excellence report in 2019, the Chichester/Peter Ball investigation in 2019, the independent inquiry into child sexual abuse—IICSA—by Professor Jay, the Elliott report in 2020, the Wilkinson report in 2023 and the further Alexis Jay report in 2024 to the recent Makin report, among others.
We have had plenty of reports, but while some improvements have been made, there remains “systemic underlying vulnerabilities” arising from the Church’s safeguarding structure. Survivors have told me that there are complex, hard-to-navigate structures and slow, institutionally defensive responses. Around 2020, calls for an independent structure to oversee safeguarding practices emerged.
The Archbishops’ Council debated what that should look like—whether to create a fully independent body or to establish a board for the oversight of safeguarding, which would develop further independence. That board became the ISB, which was established in 2021. There were problems that affected the ISB, as the Wilkinson review explored, but its work was important. It built trust with victims and survivors. In fact, Mr X told me that he was
“initially sceptical of the ISB when it was set up”
but said that it went on to
“provide a ray of hope for the survivor community”.
By 2022, the ISB had started reviewing cases and making recommendations, with the first published in November that year, but, as Wilkinson found, there was a “lack of trust” between the ISB and the Church’s safeguarding structures concerning
“how the recommendations should be implemented.”
As issues escalated, ultimately, in June 2023 the board members were sacked and the board disbanded.
Wilkinson found that
“no risk assessment beyond informal conversations was carried out by or on behalf of the Archbishops’ Council members about the effect of”
this decision
“on victims and survivors who were engaged with them, particularly those involved in case reviews”.
She went on to say that it
“showed lamentably little trauma-informed regard for the vulnerability of the individuals with whom the ISB were working”.
I have heard from some of the 11 survivors, who suffered mental distress after the decision. Three landed in emergency mental services, and two developed serious suicidal thoughts. Mr X called it an “obliteration of hope.” The treatment of survivors here is itself a serious safeguarding failure. It is clear that the secretary-general of the Archbishops’ Council has questions to answer.
Around the time of the dissolution of the ISB, Professor Jay was invited to provide recommendations on the way forward. Her report said that “the only way” in which safeguarding can be improved is by making it
“truly independent of the Church.”
The central problem is that the complexity of the Church means that rather than one approach, there are 42 different dioceses, each with different safeguarding systems. Safeguarding practitioners have said that this limits effective safeguarding. Professor Jay noted in her report:
“Church safeguarding service falls below the standards for consistency expected and set in secular organisations.”
Lesley-Anne Ryder, the independent co-chair for the response group to Jay, said to Synod that
“this level of complexity is incomprehensible. It is counter productive”.
She said that it is
“One of the ways in which you are losing the trust…of the nation”.
The complexity creates a patchwork of different approaches. Some dioceses do implement robust safeguarding practices, and some have independent sexual violence advisers. The diocese of Newcastle has four permanent staff members with key safeguarding roles, including a caseworker and a training lead.
I pay tribute to the Bishop of Newcastle, whose leadership on the issue has been commendable. I met her last year to discuss these matters, and she has much support in the country and, I am sure, the House. Other dioceses, however, lack such comprehensive systems, often relying on bringing in external consultants. It is simply not acceptable that the experience of survivors should vary depending on where they live. There must be a unified and consistent system that is evenly resourced with the same quality of support, respecting the independent expertise of safeguarding professionals.
Professor Jay recommended the
“creation of two separate charities, one for independent operational safeguarding and one for independent scrutiny of safeguarding.”
It is that issue that went before the General Synod last month. While Synod voted in favour of setting up an external scrutiny body, it only backed the principle of an independent operations body. That is deeply disappointing—a two-stage approach for an issue of such urgency, when survivors have already waited decades, moving from one system to another with no sign of any meaningful resolution. One survivor told me that he first reported his abuse over 40 years ago. Any further delay in delivering justice for survivors is simply unacceptable.
I do not wish to be misunderstood. The agreement of the Synod to
“affirm its commitment to greater independence”
going forward is an important step, but the decision on operations did not follow the recommendation from Professor Jay and many other specialists and professionals, or the preference of many survivors. I believe that more delay will simply confirm the survivors’ view that the Church is kicking the can down the road. Having spoken to Synod members, I do not think that that is the intention, but the reality is that, as things stand, this patchwork of procedures remains, and the Church effectively continues marking its own homework. That is clearly not acceptable.
We will hear from the Minister shortly. It is a welcome step that, earlier this year, the Government agreed to implement Professor Jay’s IICSA recommendations on safeguarding and abuse. That makes it all the more pressing that Professor Jay’s recommendations for the Church be implemented, too. As Mr X said to me:
“This is a critical point for the Church.”
Scripture teaches us to
“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves.”
The Church ought to be a place of refuge, of grace, of trust. Yet, for far too many, it has been a place of harm. We have seen apologies, report and reviews, yet survivors still tell us that they are unheard, ignored and left to fight alone for basic justice. That must change. The Church’s safeguarding structures must be independent, transparent and accountable. Its days of marking its own homework must end. Survivors must be not just consulted but placed at the heart of reform. Let us be absolutely clear: protecting the reputation of an institution must never, ever come before protecting the safety of a person.
The test of faith is not in the easy moments but in the hard truths, and the hard truth is this: trust in the Church will only be restored when every survivor who steps forward is met with compassion, justice and meaningful action.
The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for allowing me to speak in the debate in my capacity as Second Church Estates Commissioner. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) on securing this extremely important debate, and on the way in which he so eloquently set out the issue, the challenges, and the action and next steps that need to be taken. I share his desire to see survivors of abuse treated justly, with dignity and respect, and for perpetrators to be fully held to account. Like him, I look forward to a time when we all have our confidence in the Church of England’s safeguarding practices fully restored.
When I was appointed Second Church Estates Commissioner last October, I could not have foreseen the storm that was about to engulf the Church. Since the publication of the Makin report, which exposed the devastating abuse inflicted by John Smyth, MPs—myself included—have received correspondence from constituents, local clergy, and victims and survivors. Indeed, in this debate we have heard from many Members from across the House about the many challenges that this issue has raised for them. They have rightly expressed their concern about the historical and ongoing failures to keep people safe in the Church—the one place that anybody would expect to be a place of safety and sanctuary. They have also expressed concern about what looks to be a lack of consistency and transparency in the Church’s approach to safeguarding and disclosures of abuse.
Dawn Butler
One of my constituents told me that they could not go back and tell their parents what was happening to them because it was at the church, which was supposed to be a place of sanctuary where they were safe. To find out that those at the head of the Church would move abusers to another church, instead of moving them out of the Church and into jail, just added another insult to injury. Does my hon. Friend agree that that needs to stop now?
Marsha De Cordova
My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that I agree with her 100%.
These failures are not new. As my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland highlighted, before the Makin review there was the independent inquiry into child sex abuse. Over the past nine years, there have been multiple reviews into safeguarding abuses in the Church of England—multiple reviews with multiple recommendations, I might add. There have been some positive steps and changes, and I commend the work of the national safeguarding team and many people in our local parishes and dioceses around the country, who have all been working incredibly hard, but I think we can collectively agree that more needs to be done. Victims and survivors have been waiting for too long. We have come to a point where both Parliament and the public need to see the Church fully committed to change.
We have to ensure that safeguarding is transparent, accountable, consistent in its approach to disclosures of abuse, and trusted by the public, congregations, clergy and, most importantly, victims and survivors. That is why, at the General Synod in February, during my maiden speech, I made clear my support for the Church’s safeguarding operations to be wholly independent of the Church. That was the approach put forward by the Church’s lead bishop for safeguarding, Joanne Grenfell, and it was known as model 4. That approach would have created independent safeguarding operations, an independent complaints process, an independent scrutiny function and independent audits. It was supported by Professor Alexis Jay, who was the author of the report “The Future of Church Safeguarding”, known as the Jay review, and by local clergy in my constituency of Battersea. They made it clear to me that, while they are getting on with the day-to-day work of the Church, serving and supporting their local community on the frontline, they want to see the Church as an institution show some humility. Like me, they do not think that the Church should mark its own homework.
It was therefore a huge disappointment to me that the Synod chose not to back a wholly independent model of safeguarding. Instead, it opted for the creation of an external scrutiny body to examine the Church’s safeguarding practices. That approach was known as model 3, and it will see the transfer of most of the functions currently delivered by the Church’s national safeguarding team, except policy development, to an external employer.
Although model 3 includes looking at some of the practicalities of creating a fully independent safeguarding body to take on all the Church’s safeguarding work, I do not believe that that was the approach that needed to be taken, as I have outlined. It is vital, however, that the work is taken up with urgency and at pace. At present, there are no clear deadlines and no clear plan for taking the work forward. I believe we need to see a clear plan if we are to give victims and survivors, and the public, hope that the Church will really transform its approach to safeguarding, and the safety of those who are part of it.
It was right that the Synod voted to
“lament and repent of the failure of the Church to be welcoming to victims and survivors and the harm they have experienced and continue to experience in the life of the Church”,
but we need to remember that keeping people safe and ensuring accountability is the best way to honour victims and survivors of abuse. Some are probably watching today’s debate; some may even be here in person. They will be listening, and they will know better than any of us that there is still a long way to go. The Church must treat its work on independent safeguarding operations as a matter of urgency. We need no more blocking; we just need action, because action will speak louder than any words that any of us say here today.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland for his commitment to seeing this change through. He should be commended for his relentlessness in ensuring that this place has the opportunity to debate the issue. This is one of the first Adjournment debates on an issue that affects the Church, and it is important that many hon. Members have chosen to be in the Chamber, to contribute and to raise such important issues.
As I said when the Makin report was published in November last year, this has to be a watershed moment for the Church to transform both its culture and its safeguarding structures. Unless that happens, what will happen to the Church? Many of us here are Christians and followers of Jesus, so we want to see the Church change. The Church is a voice for the voiceless, as many of us know, and I hope I will not find myself in this Chamber in a year or two repeating the same sentiment.
Ms Billington
We are talking not just about changing attitudes and culture, but about changing safeguarding structures. While power is held by a small number of people who are refusing to let go of that power, it is becoming increasingly apparent that it is impossible to change that culture, so the structures of the Church itself need to change.
Marsha De Cordova
My hon. Friend has also been using her voice to speak up on this issue. We need to focus on the matter at hand: safeguarding in the Church of England. We have seen the recommendations in the Makin review and in all the previous reviews, so my question is: if change does not happen now, then when will it happen?
Richard Baker (Glenrothes and Mid Fife) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow the Second Church Estates Commissioner, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova). I thank her for her powerful speech and for all she does to encourage the Church to face up to its responsibilities on safeguarding and to acknowledge the pain and suffering the Church has caused to far too many people, because of its failures around safeguarding. I thank her for ensuring that the House has a proper role in the scrutiny of the process, as the Church must move forward.
I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) for his considered, thoughtful and harrowing speech, and for all the work he has so powerfully taken forward on behalf of the survivors of the abuse with whom he is working. We must look to those people for the way forward, to ensure that the Church properly recognises the actions it must take to make sure that those crimes are not repeated in the future. I thank him for giving me the chance to make a brief contribution on such a serious matter.
I must declare a number of interests. Both my parents are retired members of the clergy in the Church of England, in the diocese of Carlisle. I am member of St Serf’s church in Burntisland, in the diocese of St Andrews, in the Scottish Episcopal Church, which is a member of the worldwide Anglican Communion. I am both formerly the safeguarding co-ordinator for our congregation and, prior to my election, I was the convener of the Provincial Safeguarding Committee of the Scottish Episcopal Church.
I am one of millions of people across the world for whom faith and worship within the Anglican communion plays a huge and positive part in my life. We belong to our Church because we want it to be a force for good, not just in our own lives and the lives of our congregations, but for our wider community. That is why our congregations should be and must be places where every member is respected, valued and safe.
It is appalling and deeply saddening that that has not been the case for far too many people over so many years in the Church of England, and that these safeguarding failures—these crimes of abuse—have been allowed to go on. We have heard in this debate why they have been allowed to go on and about the failures of leadership that lie behind that. The horrific acts of abuse documented in the independent report of the child sexual abuse inquiry into the Church of England and, more recently, the shocking events investigated by the Makin review must never be allowed to happen again.
I believe it is important, as we have heard from others, to recognise that in making the case to take forward the important recommendations in those reports, the focus is not on restoring the reputation of the Church or on discussing who in the Church leadership has to take ultimate accountability, important though that is. The focus of the process must be on the accountability of the Church to the survivors of abuse, who have so bravely spoken out about the need for change—the ISB 11 and so many others. I find it appalling and incredible that they have not been heard by Church leaders as they should have been. Crucially, they must be listened to in order to ensure that these crimes are not repeated in the future, that people in our congregations are safe and that we are actually true to our Christian mission.
During my own involvement in safeguarding policy in the Scottish Episcopal Church, we made significant changes to our policies and processes because we recognised that even though we are a far smaller Church, we still had to do more to ensure that there was proper recognition of the importance of safeguarding in every congregation in the province. I was greatly assisted in that work by an expert in safeguarding, David Strang, a former chief constable of Lothian and Borders police.
Although I am sure that we can still do much more in our Church, crucial to the process for reform in the Episcopal Church was both increasing resources for safeguarding and establishing the fundamental principle of independent oversight of safeguarding. That experience leads me to conclude that the Church of England should listen not only to survivors of abuse, who have suffered from its own failures of leadership and safeguarding, but to the experts who have investigated so fully, with such great intensity and so diligently, how these appalling events were allowed to happen.
After the vote at Synod last month not to move immediately to independent safeguarding professionals at all levels of the Church, Professor Alexis Jay said of the decision:
“It will be devastating for victims and survivors, whose trust and confidence will absolutely not be restored as a consequence of the decision.”
Given the failures of safeguarding that have happened within dioceses and within cathedral vestries, as we have heard, that appears to be a very rational conclusion to what was agreed at Synod.
We have been assured that the model of safeguarding that has been approved will facilitate all safeguarding in the Church moving into an independent organisation in due course, but it has now been nearly two years since the Church’s independent advisory board on safeguarding was dismissed. I believe that the Church should now finally act swiftly to complete that process and move to a fully independent structure for safeguarding.
Given the scale of the abuse and the suffering caused, I hope that the Minister will agree it is vital that the Government and this House play our part in shining a light on the process within the Church. The victims and survivors of abuse within the Church have asked to be heard. They have made their case so powerfully and with such patience, despite all that they have faced and endured. It is vital that, after all they have suffered and the dignity with which they have made their arguments for change, they are heard in the Church and in this Parliament.
Sean Woodcock (Banbury) (Lab)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) for securing this important debate. Safeguarding is the responsibility of everyone in our society, and the Church of England is just one of many institutions that have fallen short after having issues with abuse and safeguarding.
My hon. Friend mentioned that although there are clear issues in parts of the Church, there are examples of good practice. He made mention of his own Church, and I point to the example of the diocese of Oxford. Last September, an independent report said that the diocese of Oxford had a “solid safeguarding foundation”, which was delivered by an
“exceptionally well-led and blended safeguarding team”.
It also commended what it described as a “safeguarding first” philosophy and congratulated the parishes in the diocese on their work on the frontline,
“where talented parish safeguarding officers lead by example”
and where “collaboration is strong”. I mention that because that should be the standard. It should not be a postcode lottery; it should be the standard across the Church. What I have described is proof that it can be done by the institution, but in too many cases, it is not being done.
Victims want a victim-centred approach—one that is not about protecting the reputations of individuals or the institution. Practical action is needed, and frankly, the victims must also have confidence that those who have been involved in the Church’s failings will not be able to influence future decision making in this area. That is why the decision of the General Synod on this issue is entirely regrettable, and one to be lamented by this House.
Jonathan Davies (Mid Derbyshire) (Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) for the sensitive way in which he opened this debate, and for the detailed way in which he set out the journey that has brought us to tonight’s discussion. It is telling that there are a lot of Members present across the Chamber tonight. Of course, we stand with victims and we are appalled that there have been so many, but I am sure I speak for many of us when I say that we are passionate about the Church of England, what it stands for and what it seeks to do—how it seeks to lift us to another plane and give us hope. We want to see it succeed, but it is so important that the Church gets its relationship with safeguarding right, because so many victims have been failed: victims of physical and sexual abuse, of emotional or financial abuse, and of coercion.
As the Church of England is the established Church and enjoys a privileged position in this country, it is right that it is accountable to Parliament and that we are having this debate. It is important to note that it is not just the Church that has had issues with safeguarding, as profound as those issues may be. It is not just religious groups or organised religions, whether Christianity or other religions; there are many other sectors across society, including the media, education and healthcare, where we can point to very poor safeguarding practices. However, what many people find particularly disappointing about the Church is that they feel it is a place where they ought to be safe, and they ought to be able to trust its leaders. Many of those leaders do an outstanding job, often in difficult circumstances, but fundamentally—as with the other sectors that have experienced these issues—the Church is run by people. In that respect, it is no different.
I want to touch on how the Church has responded to some safeguarding issues and where, in an attempt to provide redress for its past failings, it has been ham-fisted in dealing with cases of people who perhaps have not met the threshold for being on the receiving end of sanction for something that they may or may not have done. I am reminded of the case of Bishop George Bell, whose reputation had been solid, and who was deemed not to have committed any crime at all. There are similar instances that will never be reported, and those people carry around that burden with them. It is important that the Church learns to be proactive about safeguarding and supporting victims, but also ensures that it does not take people through a safeguarding process who should not be there, or perhaps should be investigated but with no further action taken. It is important that the Church understands that it must strike that balance, because if it is taking action against people to safeguard its own reputation, it is failing a whole different set of people. I am sorry to have seen some cases like that in the course of my work.
I am pleased that the Church is beginning to come to terms with what it needs to do to put this right, so that people trust it more than they have been able to in recent years, and that it is keen to learn lessons. However, it is deeply disappointing that the Church has not chosen to have an independent process to give people more trust, removing the almost political priorities of its leaders and their desire to save their reputation—leaders right from the top, down to parish level—in favour of something that can be more objective about individuals’ cases, as well as about wider policy.
As I began by saying, we are desperate for the Church to succeed. It brings so much to all of our communities—there are food banks that have been set up because of what the Church does, and social activities that bring people together. That is aside from all the work that the Church does to support people in their faith and give them hope, so we need it to succeed. It is the custodian of so many of the world’s most important buildings. It makes a fantastic and huge contribution to our cultural life, but it absolutely must get this issue right. If it fails to do so, it will face an existential threat, and I cannot countenance that as a proud Anglican. I want to see the Church succeed, but it must do right by victims. It must embed the change that it needs to embed and change its culture so that it is not characterised in these terms going forward, so that we do not have to discuss this issue any further and so that the Church can get on with what it is here to do.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Jess Phillips)
First, I thank everybody who has spoken in the debate. I give special mention to my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Luke Myer) for the passionate and detailed manner in which he took the House through the issues. The stories of victims that we have heard today are harrowing, not just in the facts of their abuse, but in the ignorance and the shutdown described by my hon. Friend and by Mr X’s constituency MP, the hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Alison Bennett), which I suppose is the issue that compounds it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Jonathan Davies) talked about this being an issue faced in many institutions. The Church of England or any other religious institution is not alone in having faced safeguarding issues and problems over the years, but it is how we react to that safeguarding challenge and what we put in place that matters. It is not for the Government to tell the Church of England how to have its processes—the Synod is there to do that. When my hon. Friend was listing institutions that had faced safeguarding issues, one that was not listed was this institution. I recall—many of the people here today were here then—that one of the things we did here, which people like me fought for, was to put in an independent process to oversee issues of sexual abuse and violence within this institution.
Safeguarding is rightly the responsibility of all, and I am grateful for the important contributions made today. I welcome the opportunity to talk about the Government’s approach to safeguarding. Let me be clear that I cannot tell the Synod what it has to do, but I condemn the acts of psychological, emotional and physical and sexual abuse against both adults and children, including where those occur in religious settings or contexts. As with every case of abuse, my thoughts are first and foremost with the victims and survivors.
Ms Billington
I understand what the Minister is saying. However, we have a situation where the institution is compounding that abuse, by the way that it is protecting the people in power or the people in power are protecting the perpetrators, thereby further hurting victims. I understand that the Minister cannot tell the Church of England how to conduct its safeguarding. However, will she please acknowledge that its failure to conduct proper safeguarding is compounding that abuse and is something that the Church of England has a duty to correct?
Jess Phillips
I gladly agree with my hon. Friend. What I know from years working on the frontline with victims of historical and current abuses—it is usually sexual abuse that I am talking about in this particular instance—is that victims tell me that what happened to them was horrendous, but what continued to happen to them because of failures by institutions to act was worse. It is a longer, more traumatic experience.
Whether this involves our court systems, our policing systems, our local authorities or—as in this instance—the Church, we have opportunities, as those who take a role in safeguarding, to do the right thing. It is not always easy to do the right thing straightaway and to make everything perfect, and I do not think anyone is asking for that. However, it is important for the processes that are put in place—and we have to do this as a nation, let alone what the Church has to do—to ensure that even if the outcome is not perfect, for justice is not always served, the procedure that people go through does not cause further harm. That should be the bare minimum that victims can expect. We are committed to tackling all forms of abuse against children wherever they occur, including the despicable crime of child sexual abuse.
Sam Carling (North West Cambridgeshire) (Lab)
I welcome the Government’s commitment to implementing the IICSA recommendations, notably the introduction of mandatory reporting, which will go a long way towards tackling abuse in religious settings. Does the Minister agree, particularly in the context of more independent safeguarding processes, that as we work to improve safeguarding in the Church of England we should also take the opportunity to bolster safeguarding within smaller religious groups, especially high-control religious groups like the one in which I grew up, in respect of which public awareness of the scale of failings is very low?
Jess Phillips
Absolutely. I will go on to talk about mandatory reporting, but the fundamental point is that, big or small, rich or poor, organisations that are in a position of power and responsibility and are working with children or vulnerable adults have a safeguarding responsibility. I would hope that bigger institutions, whether they are Governments or the larger religious institutions, want always to lead by example in this regard.
As has been mentioned, the Government have made a commitment to introduce a mandatory duty for those working with children to report sexual abuse and exploitation, making it a clear legal requirement for anyone in regulated activity—which will include the Church—relating to children in England to report to the police or the local authority if they are made aware that a child is being sexually abused. We are pleased that that commitment was introduced last week in the Crime and Policing Bill. We are also committed to making grooming an aggravating factor, toughening up sentencing and setting up a new victims and survivors panel, and we will set out a clear timeline for taking forward the 20 recommendations of the final IICSA report on child sexual abuse. As a nation, we also received recommendations from Professor Alexis Jay.
We like to conduct reviews. Institutions and Governments like to conduct reviews. We will not always agree with every recommendation, or even be able to implement every recommendation, but what is the point of constantly conducting reviews and just saying, “Lessons will be learned”? Lessons must actually be learned, and that must be followed by actions. It would seem from the litany of reviews detailed by my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland that a great many actions could be being undertaken currently.
The Government are committed to safeguarding children and protecting them from harm in all settings. There are already many legal powers in place to protect them, and local authorities have a legal duty to investigate when they believe that a child is suffering or is likely to suffer significant harm. Keeping children safe in all settings is our priority, and we are driving forward important work including updating guidance for staff and parents regarding out-of-school settings and strengthening guidance for local authorities on their legal powers to intervene, and the upcoming call for evidence will inform long-term proposals for safeguarding reform.
The Government have introduced the landmark Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill, which puts protecting children at its heart, in addition to other measures such as the 2023 update of the Government’s “Working together to safeguard children” statutory guidance. The Bill will improve information sharing across and within agencies, strengthening the role of education in multi-agency safeguarding arrangements, and will require the implementation of multi-agency child protection teams so that children are better protected in both school and out-of-school settings.
We will not let up in our efforts to safeguard and protect children and adults. It is crucial that we continue to step up prevention efforts, drive up reporting, bring more offenders to justice, and ensure that victims and survivors receive better care and support.
Rachael Maskell
I am grateful to the Minister for what she is saying. Given that it has been cited that there could be a technical reason with the Charity Commission as to the roles of trustees within the structures of cathedrals, will she meet representatives of the Charity Commission to ensure that any impediment is worked through and that, if necessary, this place legislates to remove that impediment?
Jess Phillips
I thought my hon. Friend was going to ask me a very technical question about the trustees of cathedrals; characteristically, I would have stood up and said I do not know the answer. I can absolutely commit to meeting representatives of the Charity Commission to talk to them about what the impediment in this instance appears to be, because it almost certainly has read across for safeguarding in other institutions. If there is in fact an impediment, as the Minister for Safeguarding, I would be keen to find out what the impediment is.
There should be no status that is protected from scrutiny, and the culture of silence—through wilful ignorance or, worse, malign intent—to safeguard reputations above children must end wherever we see it. Lamenting and repenting is all well and good, but what my mom used to say to me is, “Sorry is just a word you say. Changing your behaviour proves to me that you are sorry.” We owe a debt to the victims who come forward about any institutional abuse. We owe them more than lamenting and repenting. We owe them change.
Question put and agreed to.