Points of Order
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Mr Speaker
Look, the hon. Gentleman is an extremely important Member of this House, and no one is more keenly conscious of that fact than he, but it is not for him to seek to persuade, cajole or exhort people to nod. If the Leader or Deputy Leader of the House wishes to give the House a clear indication now of the Government’s intentions in respect of this matter, specifically the centrality or otherwise of the Chamber to its resolution, either of them is perfectly free to do so, but neither of them is under any obligation. It is a case of speak now or, if not forever hold your peace, for the time being do so.
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not going to announce the business of the House, because the Leader of the House has already done that, but any Member can go and participate in that debate now. It is then for the Government to decide whether to bring the matter forward, as you have already pointed out in your guidance, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker
I think we will leave it there for now. Right hon. and hon. Members will make their own assessment, and I thank the Deputy Leader of the House for what she has said.
Oral Answers to Questions
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Will Quince (Colchester) (Con)
6. What assessment he has made of the potential benefits to the House of Commons of it sitting at 9:30am on Tuesdays and Wednesdays.
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
Sitting hours are decided on by the House. They are regularly reviewed by the Procedure Committee and decisions are made by hon. Members based on the options recommended following consideration of the relevant evidence. I say to hon. Members who want change that although this matter was decided on in the last Parliament, there is no reason why they cannot make representations to the Procedure Committee for further consideration.
Martyn Day
Our staff have to be here at unreasonable, family-unfriendly hours. May I ask the Deputy Leader of the House what we are doing to ensure their health and wellbeing, and to be a considerate employer?
Dr Coffey
I do not speak on behalf of the Commission, but it is my understanding that the House is a very proactive employer in managing health and safety, and appropriate conditions for staff. Of course, we are employers of our own staff directly, and it is for us, as their managers, to ensure that they have appropriate conditions.
Will Quince
I thank my hon. Friend for those remarks, and I will take that advice. Does she agree, however, that starting at 9.30 on Tuesdays and Wednesdays would not only make the House more family-friendly, but allow some Members to see their family and children of an evening?
Dr Coffey
My hon. Friend makes a valuable point. These matters were debated extensively, and I think it is fair to say that there are probably 650 different opinions on what constitutes something family-friendly. Nevertheless, one of the important things that Standing Orders of the House do is ensure that all hon. Members have the chance to come to Question Time. He will recognise that the sitting hours of the Chamber are not necessarily the sitting hours of Committees and other such meetings. All these things need to be brought into the round.
Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)
We need to remember the need for schools to come and visit on Tuesday mornings before we make rash decisions based on the interests of MPs based in the south-east.
Does the hon. Lady agree that some of the coverage about the possibility of moving private Members’ Bills from Friday to Tuesday was absolutely ludicrous? Frankly the busiest and hardest-working day for most constituency MPs is Friday, when we are in our constituencies. We should be able to do that every week, and therefore look at dealing with private Members’ Bills on Tuesday evening.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
For debates on assisted dying and the European Union Referendum Bill, more than 300 people appeared here on Fridays. If people want to turn up on a Friday, and the issue is important enough, they are perfectly capable of doing so. Does my hon. Friend agree that, if people want a 9-to-5 job, there are plenty of them available, and they should apply for one rather than be a Member of Parliament?
Dr Coffey
I should say that “9 to 5” is one of my favourite songs by the great Dolly. My hon. Friend is an advocate of many causes on Fridays, and I think he makes a fair point about hon. Members picking issues of significant interest that have attracted Members to stay here. Daylight saving is one example, as is assisted suicide, which has been mentioned, and there are other such matters on which hon. Members will find time to be here. It is for hon. Members to decide how they wish to fulfil their role, including in relation to the introduction of private Members’ Bills.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)
2. What progress has been made on preparations for the first divisions of the House which will follow the new Standing Orders on English Votes on English Laws
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
Preparations for the first Divisions under the new Standing Orders have been under way for some time. The House authorities and the Government have worked together to put in place arrangements for the Divisions, including the use of tablets to assist in the recording of double majority votes. Hon. Members who were here in the last Parliament will have seen the use of iPads as a test ground for that.
Andrew Bridgen
I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Will she confirm that, going forward, every MP from every part of the UK will still be able to debate and vote on every piece of legislation in the Commons, and make it clear that the accusation that this will create two tiers of MP is simply not true?
Dr Coffey
I agree with my hon. Friend that every Member in this House will continue to debate on Second Reading, during various elements of Committee and Report stages, and on Third Reading. It is simply the policy that we have successfully introduced that, when it comes to matters that are devolved and that affect England or England and Wales only, it is crucial that measures have the explicit consent of the MPs from those nations involved.
Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
If we are to have English votes for English laws, why, on non-devolved matters that particularly affect Wales, such as the future of S4C, can we not have Welsh votes for Welsh laws, with double majority votes for MPs from Wales?
Dr Coffey
We were very careful, in our proposals, to ensure that every Member could continue to debate and vote on matters, even if they affected only England. We are still the United Kingdom Parliament, and the Welsh Assembly was established to deal with devolved matters. The hon. Gentleman recognises that, as do we.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
3. If he will bring forward proposals for Prime Minister’s questions to take place on Tuesdays and Thursdays in each week.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
5. If he will ensure that debate time for Back-Bench business is safeguarded.
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
The introduction of the Backbench Business Committee, as part of the Wright reforms, was a great innovation in the last Parliament. It is for the Committee to schedule business on the days allocated to it in each Session and for the Speaker, Deputy Speaker or Chair of the debate to manage them when they take place.
Mr Hollobone
The Leader of the House has protected Back-Bench business very recently with a scheduled time limit for the debate. What is the policy of the Deputy Leader of the House on doing this? May I encourage her to do it far more often so that Members know when a debate is likely to finish?
Dr Thérèse Coffey
I am not exactly sure of the procedure that my hon. Friend refers to. It is usually at the discretion of the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee to indicate the likely times of debates on each topic if the Committee chooses to split up its days. The concept of injury time for all business was considered by the Procedure Committee in the last Parliament, but the Committee agreed with the then Leader of the House that rendering uncertain the time of conclusion of debates in the House would be undesirable.
Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)
7. What assessment he has made of whether oral questions to the Leader of the House is an effective use of parliamentary time.
Independent parliamentary Standards Authority
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the motion, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Sir Robert Owen and John Thurso to the office of ordinary member of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority with effect from 1 January 2016 for the period ending on 31 December 2020.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bailey. The appointments referred to in the motion have arisen to due to the terms of Sir Neil Butterfield and Professor Tony Wright coming to an end. The Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority has produced a report, its first of 2015, in relation to this motion and it was sent to members of this Committee in advance.
It may help if I set out the key points regarding IPSA board members. They are appointed under the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, under which the Speaker is responsible for overseeing the selection of candidates for appointment, and the names of any candidates to be member of IPSA must be approved by the Speaker’s Committee for IPSA. The 2009 Act states that at least
“one of the members of the IPSA must be a person who has held (but no longer holds) high judicial office”,
that at
“least one of the members of the IPSA must be a person who is qualified under Schedule 3 to the National Audit Act 1983…to be an auditor for the National Audit Office”,
and that one
“of the members of the IPSA…must be a person who has been (but is no longer) a member of the House of Commons.”
On this occasion the vacancies were for the parliamentary member, the role being filled by John Thurso, and the former holder of a high judicial office, the role being fulfilled by Sir Robert Owen.
The Speaker is not regulated by the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments in making these appointments, but he chooses to follow OCPA-recommended best practice in his supervision of the process. As is normal, Mr Speaker appointed a panel that conducted the shortlisting and interviewing of candidates that was chaired by Dame Denise Platt, former chair of the Commission for Social Care Inspection. The other members were Sir Ian Kennedy, chair of IPSA, Professor Chatterji, lay member of the Speaker’s Committee for IPSA, Sir David Latham, a former High Court judge, and Laura Sandys, former MP for South Thanet.
The candidates recommended by the appointment board are Sir Robert Owen and John Thurso. Sir Robert is a former High Court judge. From 2005 to 2008, he served as the presiding judge for the western circuit and he has been a member of the Judicial College board since 2011. John Thurso is the former Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross. He was elected to the House in 2001 and served on a number of high profile Committees, including the Treasury Committee and the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards. He was also the Chair of the Finance and Services Committee in the last Parliament, a member of the House of Commons Commission and a member of the House’s Audit Committee.
As required under the 2009 Act, the appointments were approved by the Speaker's committee at its meeting on 18 November. If the appointments are made, both Sir Robert and John Thurso will serve on IPSA for five years. I hope that the Committee, and ultimately the House, will support the appointments, will wish these individuals well as they take up their new posts and will extend its thanks to the members who are coming to the end of their terms.
Speaker's Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority
Electoral Commission
Local Government Boundary Commission for England
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the motion, That in pursuance of paragraph 2A of Schedule 3 of the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, as amended, Bronwen Curtis be appointed as lay member of the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority, for a period of four years from 26 January 2016.
The Chair
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Motion 2—Electoral Commission—
That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Rob Vincent as an Electoral Commissioner with effect from 1 January 2016 for the period ending on 31 December 2019.
Motion 3—Local Government Boundary Commission for England—
That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Professor Colin Mellors as Chair of the Local Government Boundary Commission for England with effect from 1 January 2016 for the period ending on 31 December 2020.
Dr Coffey
It is a privilege to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Wilson. It is good to see you in your place. I know that you spent many distinguished years serving as an Opposition Whip.
The first motion proposes that Bronwen Curtis be appointed as a lay member of the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority for four years from 26 January 2016. SCIPSA is a statutory committee, created by the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, and is responsible for the oversight of the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority through appointing board members to IPSA and by approving the organisation’s estimate. The vacancy has arisen due to the term of Dame Janet Gaymer, one of SCIPSA’s current lay members, coming to an end on 25 January. I am sure that this Committee would like to put on the record its thanks to Dame Janet for her service. SCIPSA produced an explanatory memorandum in relation to the motion, which has been made available to hon. Members in the Vote Office. I have also ensured that members of this Committee have been sent copies of the explanatory memorandum, together with the other reports that relate to our debate today.
The candidate named in the motion, Bronwen Curtis, has been a civil service commissioner, the chairman of the Northampton General Hospital NHS Trust, and a member of various review bodies. The duration of appointments as lay members of SCIPSA are staggered to provide continuity for the Committee. Accordingly, the motion provides that Ms Curtis should be appointed for four years.
The second motion proposes that an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Rob Vincent as an electoral commissioner for four years from 1 January 2016. The Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission has produced a report in relation to this motion. The vacancy arose following the decision of Max Caller to resign from the commission when he was appointed the commissioner for Tower Hamlets by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government. I am sure that this Committee would like to thank Max Caller for his service. This recruitment was conducted, at the request of the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, by a board, which recommended Rob Vincent. Mr Vincent served as chief executive of Kirklees Council from 2004 to 2010 and was a non-executive director for the Department for Communities and Local Government from 2008 to 2010. Between 2010 and 2012, Mr Vincent led the intervention into Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council, at the request of the then Secretary of State. Most recently, he has acted as an adviser to the Department of Health on the transition of public health from the NHS to local government.
The final motion before the Committee proposes that an Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Professor Colin Mellors as the chair of the Local Government Boundary Commission for England for five years from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2020. Again, the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission has produced a report in relation to this motion. The LGBCE is responsible for reviewing local authority electoral arrangements and can also conduct reviews of the structure of local government and the external boundaries of local authorities.
The vacancy has arisen because the current chair, Max Caller, is approaching the maximum permitted length of service. The recruitment was conducted, at the request of the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission by a board, which made this unanimous recommendation. Professor Mellors is the current deputy chair of the LGBCE. His most recent executive role was as the pro-vice-chancellor of the University of York. He has been involved in several economic development activities across Yorkshire and the Humber and is a board member of the York and North Yorkshire local enterprise partnership.
In summary, this Committee is being asked to consider motions to appoint Bronwen Curtis as a lay member of SCIPSA for four years, Rob Vincent as an electoral commissioner for four years, and Professor Colin Mellors as chair of the LGBCE for five years. I hope that the Committee, and ultimately the House, will support the appointments and wish those individuals well as they take up their new posts.
Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)
First, I apologise for arriving late and breathless; I was trying to deal with a constituency matter.
The appointments are important, and the Committee should really satisfy itself that the people whom we are putting forward are appropriate for the tasks ahead of them, which are very onerous indeed. One of the roles relates to IPSA, which is a matter of great sensitivity and high importance to members of the public. It is important to get the right person who understands both sides of the House, how Members of Parliament work and the public’s expectations about what we should be doing and how we should do it when using public money. I apologise if I missed this, but I would like to hear a little more from the Minister about whether the proper processes were followed in respect of these appointments, and whether the people, particularly in relation to the IPSA appointment, are well qualified.
Exactly the same applies to the Electoral Commission, because some significant issues are currently affecting our democracy, including the drawing of future constituency boundaries, and every Member of Parliament has a great sensitivity about such issues. We should not consider lightly the question of who should be involved with local government boundaries and the Electoral Commission. If someone has been plucked from a list of the great and the good, they will be okay and they will not rock the boat, but this is perhaps a period when serious scrutiny—more serious than ever—is necessary because of how the Government have politicised the process around the boundary proposals.
The Government still have proposals on the table to reduce the number of Members of Parliament by 50, which will squeeze out those areas that do not have good numbers on the register. That may apply particularly to areas like mine and perhaps yours, Mr Wilson, where high numbers of people are not on the register. The problem applies particularly to inner-city areas like mine and some rural places, which I understand that you represent, Mr Wilson. It is important that we get someone with a view about how to get people on the register, which is an important part of our democracy. If that is not done, it will be a great injustice. This is about the Electoral Commission and getting people registered so that they can play their full part in our democracy. It is not some cosy procedural nicety whereby we put someone on the committee and the job is done. We need people to speak up for the 17 million disfranchised people in this country. They need someone on the Electoral Commission to pipe up for them.
My other concern relating to the Electoral Commission is that the concept has now entered our vocabulary of “voter suppression”, with which Martin Luther King and others would be very familiar. We need someone on the Electoral Commission who will look to voter engagement and go against this tide of voter suppression. I will provide two brief examples. First, in order to register, a person now needs to provide a national insurance number. Many people have it in their head—I do not—but for many others it is a little bar to filling out the forms. [Interruption.] I do not know whether the officials think this is funny, but perhaps they could do me the courtesy of listening to my argument. I know that it is an encumbrance to have elected Members on their feet talking about such matters.
The Chair
I ask Mr Allen to stick to the appointments. We do not want a wider debate on electoral registration.
Dr Coffey
I found that speech rather insulting. This process has gone through the Speaker’s Committees for each of these bodies. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman—I was going to ask him—has had time to read the reports that were sent to him in advance of today’s meeting, but if he has, he will know the extensive processes that we have gone through. Rob Vincent was chief executive of Kirklees Council—as I said earlier, though the hon. Gentleman was not here for the start of our consideration today—and he was the registration officer for that council, so he certainly has experience of registration issues.
I expect hon. Members to recognise the process that the proposals have gone through. The Speaker follows best practice guidance from the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments. We have had panels of independent people and the involvement of Members of Parliament, and the Government have been particularly involved. This has been done through the Speaker’s Committees and considered under the processes of the House. I endorse the opinions of the boards and the Speaker’s Committees in making these recommendations today.
Question put and agreed to.
ELECTORAL COMMISSION
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the motion, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Rob Vincent as an Electoral Commissioner with effect from 1 January 2016 for the period ending on 31 December 2019.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOUNDARY COMMISSION FOR ENGLAND
Resolved,
That the Committee has considered the motion, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Professor Colin Mellors as Chair of the Local Government Boundary Commission for England with effect from 1 January 2016 for the period ending on 31 December 2020.
Council of Europe
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister issued a written ministerial statement confirming the agreed names of the UK delegation on Tuesday 3 November. The credentials of the current delegation expired on 6 November, six months after the general election, and there is now no UK delegation. The only way to ensure that there is a serving delegation quickly is to transmit the credentials for consideration by the Standing Committee on 27 November. As we have heard, it would prefer to have the credentials a week in advance, and my hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) has already mentioned the date of 20 November.
The longer the delay continues, the more the problem is exacerbated. A failure to submit the delegation’s credentials in time for ratification at the Assembly’s next Standing Committee will mean that delegation members will be unable to participate in Assembly business until at least the next plenary part-session at the end of January.
Dr Coffey
It is probably best if I try to inform the House of the Government’s position, if the hon. Gentleman will allow me.
The absence of the UK delegation will be most keenly felt in the work of the Assembly’s committees, as well as in preventing participation in key decision making during this period. As has been said, the UK Government do not and cannot represent the Assembly delegation. Consequently, we will be without a voice. My hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet has set out some of the other meetings in more detail.
Even those with sympathy for the principles of the motion should recognise that the UK parliamentary delegation is not a Select Committee of the House. The Council of Europe has certain guidelines to provide that a delegation is a fair representation of Parliament. In meeting those guidelines, we have consistently ensured that the delegation has had appropriate political balance, has members from both Houses and MPs from every nation of the United Kingdom, and has fulfilled the criteria on gender balance.
Paul Flynn
When there was a vacancy for the leader of the Labour delegation some years ago—the leader of the majority party’s delegation is the leader of the entire delegation—a vote was held between Lord Prescott and Chris McCafferty. Will the Minister explain to the House how the hon. Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) was chosen as the leader-designate not only of the Conservative delegation but of the entire delegation? How does that process work—is it election or appointment?
Dr Coffey
Given that the Conservatives have a majority in the House of Commons, I believe that the decision was made by the Prime Minister as leader of the Conservative party. I am not privy to all the ins and outs of how Labour Members decide who they select or appoint to various Committees or Assembly delegations. I do not know about the election to which the hon. Gentleman referred, but I am not aware that it was an election of the whole House. On his logic, it probably should have been, given that the whole House elects Committee Chairs. I am aware that the Labour delegation was uncontested within the parliamentary Labour party in 2010, but I do not know what happened this year.
I have outlined how the Council of Europe has certain guidelines and demonstrated how we have met them. As a consequence, I believe that the delegation is perfectly in order. The delegation has been chosen in this way for many years, and we believe that this is still the right way to nominate the parliamentary delegation, as it is not a Select Committee. I should remind right hon. and hon. Members that we also have parliamentary delegations to the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe, NATO and the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly, which is meeting today. The UK and this Parliament are at risk of losing influence at an important time.
The Government do not support the motion. I therefore encourage my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) to seek the leave of the House to withdraw the motion, or not to give voice to the motion at the end of the debate. I encourage my hon. Friend the Member for Altrincham and Sale West (Mr Brady) to do the same with regard to his amendment.
Houses of Parliament (Family-friendliness)
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hamilton. I congratulate the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) on securing this debate. Just six months into being a Member of Parliament, she has certainly made an impression on the House. She is right to say that this is not a partisan issue. I know she is a busy lady. She sits on the Women and Equalities Committee, and she is also a member of the Backbench Business Committee, which I believe is meeting at the same time as this debate, so she has had to sacrifice her presence there to be here. In its previous sitting, it seems that there was a minor fracas about international men’s day, which continued on “Daily Politics”. When I saw it, I wondered whether it had become a parliamentary version of “Snog Marry Avoid?” I do not expect her to say which it is.
Dr Coffey
The hon. Lady widened the debate beyond MPs to the demands on all staff—particularly House staff. I pay tribute to all staff who help us in our roles as Members of Parliament. This issue matters to the House. Perhaps I should encourage the House of Commons authorities to make more widely known what happens in relation to flexible working, nurseries, childcare schemes in our unusual summer holidays, career breaks and so on. That information is useful, and I will ask the House authorities to extend it further and especially to new Members.
We should also recognise that we are employers in our own right, so we must be role models when we work with our staff. I tell my team off—I do not know whether they are watching—if they work later than a certain hour. I give them notice and tell them that if they keep doing it, I will have their keys removed and kick them out at a certain time. It matters that we are role models, as has been said many times already in this debate.
We are unique in a certain respect: although we should and do represent wider society, we are the masters and mistresses of our own destiny from the day we are elected until we put ourselves forward for re-election. We should consider how we perform our roles as parliamentarians. The issue is not about being superwoman or superman, but being conscious that we are representing people when we are in the Chamber, when we scrutinise legislation, when we become Ministers and when we work in our constituencies. Our party leaders expect us to be here to vote on important matters, but, as we have discussed in previous years, to some extent we can work with the usual channels to ensure we have a sensible, proactive family life. Although I do not have children, I believe that such accommodations are often willingly made.
Neil Gray
I take the point made by the right hon. Member for Chelmsford (Sir Simon Burns), who said that things were more difficult in the past. Thank goodness for technology. Those of us who are parents are able to use FaceTime, Skype and what have you to keep in touch with our children. Would it not be more appropriate for this House to use technology to enable us to work more effectively as representatives, rather than use technology as parents?
Dr Coffey
The House is using technology more and more, but the hon. Gentleman may want it to go further. I passed a colleague other day who was on FaceTime celebrating with their daughter the opening of her birthday presents. It was a sweet and charming moment and is something that simply was not available until recently.
I am conscious that I have to give some time to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley, so I will try to get through a few of the issues raised in the debate. Quite a lot has been said about the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority and people’s demands. It is important to ensure that the public understand that decisions about pay, pensions and expenses are made by IPSA, which puts its schemes out for consultation. It is statutorily obliged in the first year of a Parliament to undertake a specific review, to which I strongly urge Members to respond.
I made personal representations in the previous Parliament about colleagues who live on the fringes of London and yet have to dash for the train rather than participate in Adjournment debates, for example. The challenge of maintaining a family while working here and in the constituency is well known, and IPSA has changed following the initial backlash after the 2009 expenses issues. Beginning with a strict regime, I believe that it has made a bit of a journey and I encourage it to consider such matters more.
Specific issues were raised by, among others, the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) and I will take them up with IPSA. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley made a particularly useful suggestion about changing how IPSA reports on childcare. On media responsibility and how expenses are reported, I often say that I claim the expenses necessary in order for me to fulfil my role to my constituents, and my newspaper has finally got that fact.
On timetabling, the hon. Lady suggested that she would probably sit for longer in order to spend less time here. There was an active debate in 2012, about which I had a brief conversation with the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn), about the fact that the Select Committee on Procedure considered the matter in the previous Parliament. Sitting hours are very much a matter for the House, and the Procedure Committee is the right avenue to re-explore them. My right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Sir Simon Burns) referred to the idea of an earlier start on a Monday, but I am conscious of the fact that people come from the four corners of the United Kingdom and that Sunday as a special family day is important for them. That is a strong argument and is why the House voted unanimously in 2012 to keep the later Monday start, while protecting the current eight and a half hours of sitting time.
On the other Parliaments in the UK, which sit for three days and then have two constituency or family days, I suggest to the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) and the others who made that point that I find amazing what we manage to squeeze into four or four and a half days. There is then the suggestion that the House should sit for more weeks, but I am unsure whether that would lead to the right balance. The way that the parliamentary timetable has evolved allows people to be here for three days a week in most weeks if that that is what they choose to do; the issue is about judging what is best for oneself.
It is important to stress that a recess is not a holiday. Many people use recesses to undertake constituency work, and it is not right to suggest that we are not in touch with our constituents if we are not in our constituencies on a Friday as we have decided to be here for a private Member’s Bill. I have always felt that if Parliament is sitting, the reasons for my being here and not necessarily in my constituency are valid.
On knowing about business slightly further ahead of time, I do not have the Chief Whip’s understanding of exactly what is happening in both Houses, but we do, to be fair, try to give two weeks’ notice of the business being conducted. Some of that is because the timetabling at our end depends on what is happening in other House, and the relationship is not always easy to predict far in advance, as the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley may recognise following recent debates in the other place.
The decision in the previous Parliament to switch the Tuesday sitting hours from 2.30 pm to 11.30 am was close and was made on the basis of a majority of only 15. There is a strong view that what might work for people who are based in London does not necessarily work for people based elsewhere, and that debate may continue in this Parliament.
On voting, it is important that we keep debates with votes. I understand that the Speaker, in conjunction with the Chief Whips of each party, has made arrangements regarding young children going into the Division Lobbies. I am not aware of any issues. Regarding time limits on speeches, I do not like the Scottish or European Parliaments’ way of allocating time to parties, because it really impacts on the opportunities for Members from smaller parties to contribute to debates.
Melanie Onn
I am grateful. The problem with the Speaker and the Whips making arrangements is that there are no hard and fast rules. Unless such things are laid down, it is not always clear how people can seek to make this place work better for them.
Dr Coffey
I will ensure that I speak to the Opposition Whips so that they have a session with their MPs to discuss the matter, as has already happened on our side.
Moving on to breastfeeding, my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford referred to the Betty Boothroyd test, which I believe still stands. We may talk about it being the 21st century, but this is a workplace and it is not something that people enjoy wider than that. I do not believe that there is a big view in the House to make the shift at this time.
Probably the most difficult issue is that of recesses, school holidays and so on. I have done quite a lot of work on this and noted that the Scottish and Northern Irish seem to follow similar holiday patterns and the English and Welsh follow theirs. I cannot go into too much detail now as time is against me, but the business managers are listening. Some 10% of MPs are significantly disrupted by this matter, and it so happens that there was a three-week overlap this summer between the end of the recess and the beginning of Scottish schools restarting. That is something that we will consider carefully. Conferences tend to be booked five years in advance, and I understand that conversations are under way to try to see what we can do in the next Parliament.
I am not sure that I have been able to cover quite everything. I agree with the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley on job sharing, which would be very difficult. On maternity and parental leave, however, the coalition Government brought in the concept of shared parental leave. We are masters and mistresses of our own destiny, so it is up to us to decide how we address that, but it has always been more than well accommodated by Government. I am sure that the House will continue have further debates on this and other matters, and I appreciate Members’ representations today.
Jess Phillips
I recognise that the Government are not alone in controlling what happens here, but this place is not representative at the moment. That is a simple fact. All of today’s speeches from people with caring responsibilities, be that for their children or elderly relatives or partners who may have been unwell, make that perfectly clear. When I leave this place, I want to see 50:50 representation of women and men.
Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).
Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe
Thérèse Coffey Excerpts(9 years ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
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Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Leader of the House of Commons if he will make a statement about the rationale that was applied in determining which members of the UK delegation should be reappointed to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.
The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his work in the Council of Europe over the past 10 years. He will know that decisions about appointments to the delegation are a matter for different political parties, and places are allocated in proportion to representation in Parliament. Normally, decisions are taken through the usual channels and approved by the leaders of the parties represented on the delegation. I appreciate my hon. Friend’s disappointment at the changes to the delegation for this Parliament, but I am sure that he will take advantage of the extra time that he has to spend in the Chamber by making more of his customarily pithy and perceptive contributions to debates.
Mr Chope
It is most reassuring to have confirmation from my hon. Friend that the issue of reappointment was not based on merit.
May I ask my hon. Friend what consultation has been carried out with political parties, as specified on page 174 of “Erskine May”? Why will she not confirm that the real reason why three independently minded former Ministers are being purged is because we voted in favour of a free and fair EU referendum with a strict 28-day purdah period, as recommended by the Council of Europe’s Venice Commission and our Electoral Commission? Does she accept that that decision is being interpreted in Strasbourg as direct interference by Government in the work of the Parliamentary Assembly?
The Leader of the House said on Thursday that he was aware of the House’s desire to express its opinion on the membership of the new delegation, and he said that
“no doubt the House will give the matter careful consideration”.—[Official Report, 29 October 2015; Vol. 601, c. 511.]
How is that to be facilitated? Will the Deputy Leader of the House ensure that the House can express its opinion before you, Mr Speaker, transmit the list to the Parliamentary Assembly? As the Assembly cannot consider the list until 27 November, does she agree that there is plenty of time to do that?
Does the Deputy Leader of the House recall the speech made by our Prime Minister on 26 May 2009 entitled “Fixing Broken Politics”? In it he said that
“MPs should be more independent”
and that Select Committee members
“should be elected by backbenchers, not appointed by Whips”.
He called for Parliament to be a
“real engine of accountability…not just the creature of the Executive”.
Why do those fine words not apply to Conservative members of the Parliamentary Assembly?
Dr Coffey
Six months into this role, I am afraid that I have not digested all of “Erskine May”. I do not know what page 174 refers to, but since my hon. Friend has pointed it out to me, I will make it my urgent duty to consult it straight after this urgent question.
I recognise that my hon. Friend is disappointed. He was appointed by the leader of the Conservative party on the last two occasions, and new people have now been added to the delegation. The written ministerial statement was laid at 11.33 am today, and hon. Members can see the list. If it is of interest to the House, I could read it out, but I am sure that our time would be better served by moving on to important legislation, and that piece of paper is available in the Vote Office.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Far be it from me to intrude on private grief in the Conservative party, but we in the Labour party have elections for these posts. I recommend democracy to the Conservatives.
This smacks of a vindictive attitude by the Government towards some of their Back Benchers. I have never agreed with the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) on a single thing in the history of his or my time in the House, and I am not entirely sure that I agree that he is always pithy—nor am I. He is, however, an extremely assiduous parliamentarian, as are the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) and the right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan), who have also been removed. To be honest, the only rationale that I can detect at work in the appointments is that anyone who has ever disagreed with the Prime Minister is for the chop.
It seems that the Deputy Leader of the House does not understand the rules that govern the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. The whole point of the Assembly is that its members are not Government representatives but parliamentary representatives. Indeed, the statute of the Council of Europe is very clear. Article 25a states:
“The Consultative Assembly shall consist of Representatives of each Member, elected by its Parliament from among the members thereof, or appointed from among the members of that Parliament, in such a manner as it shall decide”.
The key point is that delegates to the Assembly are either elected, which has not happened in this case, or appointed in such manner as the Parliament decides, not in such manner as the Prime Minister decides.
Does the Deputy Leader of the House realise that the way in which the Government have proceeded could mean that the Assembly ends up questioning the British delegation for the first time ever? Does she accept that the Government have taken so long since the general election that the six-month grace period will have elapsed, and that the UK Parliament will have no delegation from this Saturday until it is agreed by the Assembly? That is happening at a time when the Assembly has important business to deal with, not least human rights issues in Turkey and Russia’s ongoing suspension and boycott, all because the Prime Minister has stamped his little foot.
Dr Coffey
The hon. Gentleman says that he rarely agrees with my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). This is a rare occasion when I disagree with my hon. Friend.
I am sure the shadow Leader of the House recognises that this is the same process that has happened in the past five years. He will be aware that decisions are taken through the usual channels and approved by party leaders. I am not aware that his party leader has objected to the way in which the delegation was proposed.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
I have a letter from the Ukrainian delegation to the Council of Europe to the Prime Minister on behalf of Georgia, Moldova, Poland and the Baltic states. It states:
“In international politics, it all too often comes down to personal trust and leadership shown in difficult circumstances. Mr Christopher Chope is such a man who has earned our trust and whose leadership deserves our highest esteem.”
The most important bit is this:
“It would be utterly regrettable if because of his absence during the coming crucial months the Russian Delegation would manage to have its credentials restored”.
I do not understand why the Leader of the House has not come to the Chamber. I suggest that the Deputy Leader of the House reconsiders the position and delays the submission of the names. The current situation is utterly undemocratic and utterly wrong. I am afraid to say that the Prime Minister should be ashamed of himself.
Dr Coffey
My hon. Friend is right to pay tribute to our hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) for his work on the Council of Europe, but I put to him again the fact that, as happened five years ago, there are new people on the Council of Europe. As a consequence, I do not believe that changes in the new delegation are unreasonable.
Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)
The urgent question asked by the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) highlights the rationale that is applied in determining the make-up of such delegations and, further, of Committees and other groups. I advise the House that the Scottish National party is, characteristically, at one in relation to our members of the delegation. Such delegations and groupings should reflect the current make-up of the Parliament. To that end, I take this opportunity to express once more the disappointment of SNP Members that we are excluded from participating in the Joint Committee on Human Rights.
In respect of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, and any other such assemblies, Committees or groups, will the Deputy Leader of the House give assurances and take due cognisance of the hugely important role that Opposition parties, regardless of size, play in the House? We are all democratically elected Members of Parliament and have a part to play, which should be recognised, and appropriately and fairly reflected, in all that we do.
Dr Coffey
The hon. Lady has been put forward as a new member of the Parliamentary Assembly, as has another SNP Member. All I will say on the matter of the Joint Committee on Human Rights is that there was a unanimous recommendation from the Committee of Selection, at which the SNP was represented. The House eventually voted on that recommendation.
Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)
Mr Speaker, I would have thought that, after the ridiculous and mean-spirited attempt to get rid of you at the end of the last Parliament, the Government would have learned a lesson about taking punishment attitudes to appointments.
The PACE is not simply a representation for the Government in Europe; it is a representation for the House. The Assembly will become progressively more important as Europe becomes more unstable, and as matters such as the European convention on human rights become important to this Parliament. Will the Deputy Leader of the House therefore return to the House at a future date with a procedure for ratifying the proposal, so that the whole House can decide who represents it?
Dr Coffey
The convention has been that representation is split up by political party as represented in the House. Different political parties take different approaches on how they put forward their nominations. The Conservative party puts the decision in the hands of the leader of the party.
I should add for my right hon. Friend that there was no attempt by the Government on the last day of the last Parliament to remove you, Mr Speaker. It matters that that is very firmly put on the record.
Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)
I am not a member of the delegation to the Council of Europe, but I am a member of the NATO Parliamentary Assembly. I am pleased to say that I have the confidence of my colleagues and was re-elected to serve on that delegation.
Is it not time that the Conservative party recognised that we are in the 21st century? It should put confidence and trust in its Back-Bench MPs so that individual Members of Parliament decide who represents the party in international bodies, rather than have a top-down, Leninist leadership-led structure.
Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
Are there not two fundamental problems? The first is the way in which the Conservative party chooses its members of the delegation, and the second is that the Prime Minister decides on the delegation, not the House. Cannot the problem be solved by allowing the House to vote in a whole-House election on who should represent us on the Assembly? You, Mr Speaker, not the Prime Minister, should submit the list to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe in your name only. I remind the Deputy Leader of the House that, although she is a member of the Government, she is also, as part of her duties, here to represent Members of the House to the Government—she is not always here to represent the Government to the House.
Dr Coffey
I take those duties very seriously. I am sure that the wise words that have been expressed today will be listened to. Nevertheless, the convention on appointments that has been followed on multiple occasions has been followed in this case. There is nothing to suggest that there is anything disorderly about it. My understanding is that you, Mr Speaker, will present the names on behalf of Parliament to the Parliamentary Assembly.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the hon. Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) for bringing this matter to the House and allowing us all to make a contribution.
I agree that the groups should not only be made up of parliamentary representatives but be picked by the House. I share the concern expressed by the hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Ms Ahmed-Sheikh) about the Scottish National party’s exclusion from the Joint Committee on Human Rights. I would like my party to be involved in that Committee, too. Will the Deputy Leader of the House tell us what steps are being taken to ensure that the House itself will decide who the representatives will be, and that Members will make that decision rather than just one person?
Dr Coffey
I cannot give the hon. Gentleman any assurances about changes in procedure, because there have been no such changes in the past five years. He should be aware, however, that the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) has been appointed as a member of the Parliamentary Assembly. There are 27 Members of Parliament on the list, 10 of whom come from the 2015 intake. This is just about changing with the new set of MPs coming into the House.
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
I should like to pay considerable tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope). I represent the party in a sister organisation in Europe, the Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists. My hon. Friend and I were involved in a lot of consultation during the last Parliament over the suspension of the Russians, and he did a terrific job in the Council of Europe. Many people regard it as a jolly, but if they study the work that he has done on that delegation, they will realise what a serious organisation it is. It needs people with knowledge, wisdom and determination, and those are the people this House should be appointing to the delegation.
Dr Coffey
I agree with my hon. Friend that the Council of Europe is a very serious organisation and that the work undertaken there is of the utmost importance. Yet again, I reaffirm my appreciation of the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch over the past 10 years. It is simply that a decision has been made to bring new people into the delegation.
Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
I congratulate the Deputy Leader of the House on her first statement. Would she welcome other urgent questions that facilitate the washing of dirty Conservative linen in public? If so, I am sure that we on the Liberal Democrat Benches would be willing to help her.
Dr Coffey
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. He was my predecessor in this role, so he will be aware of standing at this Dispatch Box. I do not think that this is a case of washing dirty linen. An orderly question has been asked, and although the answer might not be the one he wanted to hear, I believe that it has explained why the delegation is as it is.
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
I recognise the huge contribution that my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch (Mr Chope) has made to the Council of Europe, particularly on the important issue of migration. I encourage him not to be downhearted, however, because there are still independent-minded Conservative Members of Parliament on the list of delegates. There are, for example, Members who campaigned and voted for a European Union referendum. The shadow Leader of the House, the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), was wrong to suggest that the list is full of Conservative sycophants.
Harold Wilson
Thérèse Coffey Excerpts(9 years ago)
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Nuttall. I congratulate the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) on securing this debate and on his excellent speech this morning. The many interventions from hon. Members across the House have made clear the importance of Harold Wilson in parliamentary and public life. Indeed, it seems that he was a key inspiration for many people, particularly Opposition Members, in entering political life.
This country, and indeed this Parliament, have a good record of marking anniversaries in a dignified and relevant way. The pessimists may say, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it”, but I prefer the quotation, “Study the past if you would define the future”. I hope that Harold Wilson would agree, not least because he said of himself:
“I’m an optimist, but an optimist who carries a raincoat.”
This year marks a number of important anniversaries. We have commemorated 800 years since the sealing of Magna Carta in 1215 and 750 years since the Simon de Montfort Parliament in 1265. The 2015 anniversary celebrations have raised awareness of our democratic heritage, with Parliament at the heart of the story. This year also marks other anniversaries, such as 50 years since Churchill’s death, 600 years since the battle of Agincourt, 200 years since the battle of Waterloo and 600 years since the appointment of the first Serjeant at Arms. I mention those anniversaries as many hon. Members will have noted the innovative ways in which they have been marked, both inside and outside Parliament.
As the hon. Gentleman said, 11 March 1916 marks the centenary of the birth of Harold Wilson. Born in Yorkshire, in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, he first visited No. 10 at the age of eight and, of course, it later became his home on two separate occasions. I believe that there is a special photograph of his first visit, which was almost a premonition.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned many of Harold Wilson’s career highlights, which I will not reiterate in full, but I will note a few historic elements. As Labour leader, he won four of the five general elections he contested. All current parliamentarians will appreciate what a genuine and truly magnificent achievement that was for any party leader.
Harold Wilson was a social reformer—reference has been made to that—and enacted reforms in many spheres. He will largely be remembered for abolishing capital punishment in Great Britain.
Mr Sheerman
It would be wrong not to have on the record, in this year particularly, that Harold gave the British people a choice in the referendum on the European Union. That was the only time that people in this country had that choice, and he provided it in an adept and clever way. He totally outfooted a man called Benn.
Dr Coffey
That was coming up in my speech. The abolition of the death penalty, although it was initially introduced in a private Member’s Bill—Mr Silverman’s—was put into a permanent Act by Wilson’s Government. They abolished the death penalty in Great Britain and later in Northern Ireland.
As has been said, Wilson’s Government created the Open University. Dare I say it, but Margaret Thatcher, when Education Secretary, made sure that it stayed open despite a movement at the time to reduce its funding.
It was, of course, Harold Wilson who sought to renegotiate the terms of EU membership and offered the people of this country a referendum. Roll forward 40 years and we could argue about what a different position the Labour party takes on referendums on that matter. Nevertheless, it was significant, and I am sure the hon. Member for Huddersfield appreciates that we will be having a further referendum in a couple of years.
Moving on to popular culture, while Wilson never managed to make the pipe de rigueur, he coined a phrase that has never gone out of fashion:
“A week is a long time in politics”.
I believe that the phrase “kitchen Cabinet”, although it may have originated in America, described the core of what happened in Downing Street during his time there.
When preparing this speech, I was pleased to discover that Lady Wilson, Harold’s widow, celebrated her 99th birthday in January. She is the oldest living spouse of a former British Prime Minister and the last to have lived for two separate periods at No. 10 as wife of a serving Prime Minister. As we look ahead to next year, there is much to celebrate. I wish her well, hoping that she will receive her telegram from Her Majesty this coming January.
There is already much in Parliament to commemorate Harold Wilson. There are several paintings across the estate, and we pass a bust of him in Members’ Lobby on our way to the Chamber. In Portcullis House, the Wilson Room was named in his honour. In 2013, the BBC had an evening commemorating 50 years since he became Labour leader, so there may be opportunities there. He was certainly recognised as the first TV Prime Minister.
Mr Sheerman
I understand what the Minister is saying, but will she please compare what we have in Parliament and in Westminster in memory of Harold Wilson compared what we have for other Prime Ministers? Thinking about statues and memorabilia of all kinds, what we have is very small and much less significant. Does she agree that the minimum we need is a proper statue of Harold and a full opportunity to pay tribute to him on the Floor of the House on the day of the anniversary of his birth, or as close as possible to it?
Dr Coffey
On the subject of recognition, such as statues and so on, the hon. Gentleman will be aware that it is for the House to make that decision through its committees. We should not denigrate the bust of Harold Wilson because it may be small, but I recognise what the hon. Gentleman says and I am sure that the House authorities will be listening.
As we approach the centenary of Harold Wilson’s birth, the hon. Gentleman is right to consider further opportunities to commemorate his contribution to public and parliamentary life. I am sure he will pursue them in his characteristic and engaging way, as he does on other matters. On the subject of further debate in the House, I am not aware of previous debates that have commemorated the centenary of the birth of former Members, but he may wish to approach the Backbench Business Committee.
This has been a worthwhile debate, recognising many of the contributions that Harold Wilson made to the country. As has been said, many of them continue to this day and will shape the future of politics as we move forward. I welcome this debate.
Motion in the names of Chris Grayling and Dr Therese Coffey relating to the Electoral Commission
Thérèse Coffey Excerpts(9 years ago)
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
I beg to move,
That the Committee has considered the motion, That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will reappoint Anna Carragher as an Electoral Commissioner with effect from 1 January 2016 to 31 December 2020.
It is great privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer.
Anna Carragher has served as an electoral commissioner since 1 January 2015. Her current term of appointment ends on 31 December. The Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission has produced its second report of 2015, which relates to the motion.
Commissioners are appointed under the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, as amended by the Political Parties and Elections Act 2009. Under the Act, the Speaker’s Committee has a responsibility to oversee the selection of candidates for appointment to the Electoral Commission. Commissioners are appointed for a fixed term, but the committee may recommend their reappointment where appropriate. The committee is not regulated by the Office of the Commissioner for Public Appointments but it has chosen to follow OCPA recommended best practice in its supervision of appointments. The OCPA code of practice for appointments to public bodies, which was published in April 2012, provides that no reappointment may be made without a satisfactory performance appraisal.
The committee’s second report confirms that evidence of Anna Carragher’s performance was submitted to the committee by Jenny Watson, the chair of the Electoral Commission. Ms Watson indicated that Ms Carragher’s understanding of the complexities and sensitives of Northern Ireland’s politics and society had been of immense value to the commission. She noted a number of issues facing the commission on which Ms Carragher’s knowledge and understanding of Northern Ireland would be particularly valuable, such as the impact of the recent local government reorganisation in Northern Ireland and the move to greater transparency of loans and donations. Jenny Watson indicated that Ms Carragher has demonstrated acute understanding of the commission’s wider priorities and had been able to draw on her experience of Northern Ireland in contributing to discussions on matters such as individual electoral registration.
The Speaker’s Committee reported that, having considered Ms Watson’s submissions, it was content to recommend Ms Carragher’s reappointment. Once the committee has reached a decision, statute requires that the Speaker consults the leaders of the political parties represented at Westminster on the proposed reappointments. The statutory consultation provides an opportunity for the party leaders to comment but they are not required to do so. Their responses were published by the committee as an appendix to its report. Where the leader of a political party has changed since the consultation took place, new leaders have been approached to comment on this appointment, and no objections have been received.
If the appointment is made, Anna Carragher will continue to serve on the Electoral Commission until the end of 2020. I am sure that her expertise will continue to be appreciated by the commission in a period that will include the European Union referendum. I hope that Anna Carragher has the support of the Committee and of the House.
Standing Orders (Public Business)
Thérèse Coffey Excerpts(9 years, 1 month ago)
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The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Dr Thérèse Coffey)
It is a pleasure to reply to this lively debate. I am grateful to hon. Members of all parties for their considered contributions. I shall try to address as many points as I can.
The thrust of these proposals has been in our manifesto for the last three elections. The journey within Parliament started with the McKay commission and it continued with the Command Paper, which was debated in the last Parliament and whose proposals were in our manifesto this year. As I reminded Members in the summer, the official Opposition were invited to participate in drawing up proposals last year, but they declined to do so.
Over the last few months, my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House and I have engaged with Members across the House since our proposals were introduced in this Session. We have listened, reflected and provided extra time for debate. There were debates on 7 July and 15 July, and we have modified our proposals to reflect those debates and discussions, and indeed the work of the Procedure Committee.
Certain themes arose in hon. Members’ contributions, including cross-border issues, Barnett consequentials, certification and, indeed, the future of the Union. I shall try to address issues that were not covered earlier by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House, and I shall speak briefly to the amendments.
Dr Coffey
I am sorry, but I need to get through my response to what has been said today. If I have any time at the end, I will see if I can take any interventions.
On amendment (a), the Government have been very clear that we do not believe that having a Joint Committee is the right approach in this instance. As my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) said, these proposals are about Standing Orders in this House, and my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House has already invited the Lords Constitution Committee to submit to the review that he intends to set up, and we know that the review is happening with the Procedure Committee.
On amendment (e) and the timing, these proposals build on the work of the former Leader of the House, and we believe it important to implement the proposals now in tandem with further devolution. As everybody knows, we have invited the Procedure Committee to review the operation of the proposals next year, and I have been clear that we welcome this as a review period rather than a pilot after which these proposals would simply fall, as my right hon. Friend explained.
I turn now to amendments (f) and (g). I am sure that the shadow Leader of the House will recognise that many of the amendments he has tabled are indeed consequential. Trying to combine something as being minor “and” consequential as opposed to minor “or” consequential might seem like a deceptively simple change, but it has profound consequences for the amendments that might be needed.
I can offer the hon. Gentleman the example of the Children and Families Act 2014. Section 3 refers to an adoption agency. We changed the criterion because we listened to the view of the Welsh Assembly Government. We tabled a consequential amendment so that the provision took effect only in England, as opposed to England and Wales. That is the kind of issue that we consider to be consequential, and not minor. We therefore do not believe that the amendments should be accepted.
Dr Coffey
Our proposals balance the principle of English consent for English measures with MPs from all parts of the United Kingdom continuing to deliberate and vote together. Removing the proposed consent motions for the Legislative Grand Committee stage would fundamentally undermine the process that is being proposed, and the same applies to further stages.
The amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) raise the issue of Welsh-only votes. In our proposals, we are not talking about matters that are still reserved to this Parliament; we are talking about matters that have been devolved elsewhere. That is why we believe that the hon. Gentleman’s proposals do not stand.
I recognise the cross-border issues that have been raised by Members representing Welsh constituencies. We have met previously and debated the matter specifically, but let me emphasise that every Member will continue, in legislative terms, to participate in Second Reading debates, in Report stages—when they can table amendments —and in Third Reading debates, as they do now.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned clause 44 of the Housing and Planning Bill. Of course it will be for the Speaker to determine the certification of the clause, but it is making a change that applies to England on a matter that is already devolved in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is the information that the Government will provide on the clause.
As for the small number of Divisions, I believe that, unlike the last Labour Government, we have kept up the pace of devolution—we have published a Scotland Bill and a Wales Bill—so the issue will come up increasingly in the future.
The Speaker already certifies money Bills and selects amendments. I am sure that he will take advice on what should be a technical decision, as he does now. We agree with the Procedure Committee that the Speaker should be able to appoint two members of the Panel of Chairs to examine that advice, and we modified our proposals accordingly.
Let me now say something about Barnett consequentials. Spending is voted on through the estimates, which are given effect by law—by the Supply and Appropriation Bill, on which all Members voted. Many individual pieces of legislation lead to some changes in funding, but that does not necessarily mean that the funding for the UK Government Department changes. It does not follow that it has a directly identifiable impact on the block grant to the devolved Administrations, so efficiencies in one area could be redirected to front-line services without Barnett consequentials. My right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has written to my hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh) reiterating that point.
The voting arrangements on the block grant allocations awarded to the devolved Administrations are unchanged by the introduction of this process. The Government recognise the importance of the House voting as a whole on how money from the Consolidated Fund is allocated. That is why the supply estimates process and money resolutions will not be subject to this process.
The funding implications of individual pieces of legislation do not exist in isolation. Efficiency savings, or indeed additional expenditure, could be connected to one piece of legislation, and could be directed back to other front-line services. When we have increased spending, as happened with free school meals, we look for efficiencies elsewhere.
Scrutiny of the individual supply estimates is mainly undertaken by departmental Select Committees, supported by the parliamentary Scrutiny Unit. When I was a member of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee, we certainly undertook that process. The Liaison Committee then chooses the subjects for debate. Following the debates, the estimates are approved by resolution of the House of Commons, as has happened in the past. That is why Barnett consequentials are calculated on changes to overall departmental spending at spending reviews and why we end up voting on the estimates voting process.
The hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Melanie Onn) said that this proposal adds complexity and will be difficult to follow. What members of the public will find incredible is that the Labour party seeks to deny that effective voice to the people of England. What our standing orders give effect to is that legislation on a matter that is devolved to another Parliament and that affects England or England and Wales only requires the explicit consent of MPs representing those countries only. My hon. Friends have discussed fairness. As the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) recognised, we need to address this issue. This is a point of fairness. This is about strengthening the Union. This is about fulfilling our manifesto commitments, and I commend this motion to the House.