Future Skills Programmes: Universities

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2025 Westminster Hall

[Ed Davey]

It is always a pleasure to take an intervention from the hon. Gentleman, but I am going to push back a little bit, because I do not think any university is doing what Kingston University is doing—it might be partially —so I hope that he will listen to the rest of my remarks.

I think that this idea can be rolled out across England and, indeed, the whole UK and that it has the potential to help our schools, too. If that is not enough to intrigue and interest the Minister, I am not sure what is, but here is the icing on the cake: it will not cost very much. I hope I have got the Minister’s attention now. It is an idea that is very affordable. I am super-proud to say that this idea has been researched, developed, piloted, tested and rolled out in the fabulous university in my constituency—Kingston University.

I am about to unwrap this present, but in advance of the reveal, let me be clear that I have one main, simple ask of the Minister today. Please can she or her ministerial colleagues come to Kingston University to hear more from the academics involved, but above all to listen to the inspiring students who are already benefiting? And please come soon, before decisions are made in the spending review later this year, because I think students across the country can benefit from this.

Here is the present. Kingston University has developed a programme that it calls Future Skills, with the future skills being ones identified by business through a major research programme. There are nine skills in all. They are creative problem solving, digital competency including AI, adaptability, having a questioning mindset, empathy, collaboration, being enterprising, resilience, and self-awareness—something we could all do with in this House. The Minister will recognise, I hope, that these are essential life skills, but they are rarely taught, at least not directly. There is no undergraduate course with all these skills in the curriculum, yet they are the future skills that businesses say they want people to have.

Some people in other higher education institutions might say, “Well, we do that. We teach those skills, but in other ways. There’s nothing special to see here.” They would be wrong. Kingston University has developed modules for all these skills and insists that every single undergraduate takes these modules, whatever their main subject. They might be studying engineering or fashion—Kingston University, by the way, is in the top five in the UK, and is top in London, for fashion and textiles; I thought I would just get that in. They might be studying computer science or cyber-security, or nursing. Whatever the degree, students at Kingston University now study these nine future skills as well. What is more, Kingston University has structured the teaching of these future skills across three years of undergraduate study in phases called navigate, explore and apply. A first-year undergraduate will experience those future skills in a programme called navigate, which is designed to support the student’s transition into university life. It involves workshops that show that these future skills are not abstract but real skills with huge significance.

These workshops help students to navigate how they match up to the skills already. Are they naturally empathetic? Have they mastered AI? Are they good at collaboration and problem-solving? I guess the first-year undergraduate experience of the navigate phase of future skills could be described as self-assessment, where the student is offered relevant guidance and learning resources to develop all those skills. That first-year navigate phase was rolled out, after testing, for all Kingston University students in September 2023, reaching 5,300 students this academic year.

This September’s Kingston freshers will be the third cohort to experience navigate and future skills. Students in their second year take future skills forward in a phase called explore. That involves students working directly with employers to build their knowledge of these future skills and an understanding of what they mean in practice. They do that in a variety of ways: in mock assessment centres and live projects, and through placements and site visits. Some people would say they do that already, but they do not.

Explore has been tested for two years and rolled out for one. The full second year of Kingston students have been experiencing explore from last September, reaching more than 4,400 students. To take one example, an exercise developed with the John Lewis Partnership focused on Waitrose. Waitrose worked with Kingston students on actual questions and challenges that the business is facing, working with 600 second-year students from the university’s faculty of business and social science and the faculty of engineering, computing and the environment to help them to solve real problems.

Students are devising a system to make it easier for Waitrose to capture and interpret data from its suppliers. Other students are shaping a business-to-business marketing communications strategy for Waitrose to encourage suppliers to adopt appropriate use of artificial intelligence to support data insight.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley) (Lab)]

I thank the right hon. Member for securing this debate. As a former apprentice, I was taught those skills, but those who chose the academic route often lack them. It would be wonderful to see this approach rolled out to many universities and made a permanent feature, so that everyone benefits, not only from employability but in their daily life skills.

[Ed Davey]

I am very happy to have that sign of support from the Government Benches already; we are making progress.

After the navigate and explore phases, the final stage of the future skills programme for third-year undergraduates is called apply. Students take stock of what they have learned with the nine skills, and refine and tailor their learning of future skills towards their careers. The apply stage of future skills is being piloted, tested and finalised with some students as we speak, with a full-year roll-out for all third-year Kingston students from September 2025.

I hope that that quite long description of Kingston University’s future skills helps the Minister and others to see that it is a well-thought through, properly researched and piloted programme, and it is happening. There is lot that Ministers and their officials can come and see for themselves, so I repeat my invite. If what I have said so far has not convinced the Minister—I find that hard to believe—here is another major argument. Big UK and international businesses, brands and organisations are coming to Kingston University because they love future skills.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Janet Daby)]

It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) on securing a debate on the Government’s support for future skills programmes at universities. I also thank him for speaking positively and passionately about the excellent contribution of Kingston University and, in particular, its navigate, explore and apply programmes. I also want to acknowledge the interventions from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Hall Green and Moseley (Tahir Ali) and the hon. Member for Taunton and Wellington (Gideon Amos).

I heard clearly the invite from the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton, and although I will not commit my noble Friend Baroness Smith, the Minister for Skills, I will draw the invitation and the date of 18 June to her attention. It may surprise the right hon. Member that I undertook a post-qualifying course at Kingston University, so I can testify that it is one of the many outstanding universities in our country.

I will set out the Government’s position in response to the right hon. Member. This debate addresses the need for our educational institutions to evolve and adapt to the demands of the modern workforce. By focusing on future skills, we aim to ensure that our universities are not only centres of academic excellence, but hubs of innovation and practical training. Doing so will equip our students with the necessary skills to thrive in an ever-changing global economy and drive the nation’s growth and prosperity.

Skills are crucial to implementing the plan for change. This Government’s manifesto outlined our commitment to developing a comprehensive strategy for post-16 education and skills. Our aim is to dismantle barriers to opportunity, cultivate a skilled workforce and stimulate economic growth. This strategy will address how we can provide the skills our country requires, both now and in the future.

Our objective is to establish a robust skills system in which everyone is empowered to succeed in life and work, with appropriate support for reskilling to adapt to the evolving economic landscape. That involves fostering a culture of lifelong learning, creating clear and coherent pathways for learners of all ages, and enhancing collaboration among skills partners within a framework of well-defined roles and responsibilities. We will release a vision paper for this strategy soon, and engage with all stakeholders across the system.

A crucial element of the strategy is the reform of higher education, which will ensure that our universities play a pivotal role in supporting the development of future skills. By aligning higher education reforms with our broader skills strategy, we can create a cohesive and comprehensive approach to education and workforce development.

As hon. Members will know, in November the Secretary of State announced five priorities for reform of the higher education system. We will expect our higher education providers, first, to play a stronger role in expanding access and improving outcomes for disadvantaged students; secondly, to make a stronger contribution to economic growth; thirdly, to play a greater civic role in their communities; fourthly, to raise the bar further on training standards to maintain and improve our world-leading reputation and drive out poor practice; and, finally, to drive a sustained efficiency and reform programme.

The Government are committed to setting out a plan for reform of the higher education sector in the summer. Department for Education officials are currently working in partnership with the sector, the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology, UK Research and Innovation and the Office for Students to shape the changes to Government policy that will be needed to support that reform. Taken together, the changes will drive through reform in these areas, put our world-leading higher education sector on a more secure footing, and ensure that the sector is able to provide the skills required to deliver economic growth for the industrial strategy and support the wider change that the country needs in the years to come.

In addition to higher education reform, the establishment of Skills England is a key component of our strategy. It was disappointing that the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton and his party chose to vote against our transformation of the skills system yesterday, especially given the purpose of this debate. Skills England will play a crucial role in transforming our skills system, and will ensure that our workforce is equipped with the necessary skills to meet the demands of the modern economy. It is currently set up in shadow form within the Department for Education, and there are plans for it to be fully established in 2025. The Education Secretary has appointed Phil Smith CBE as its chair and Sir David Bell as its vice chair.

Skills England will transform the skills system to make it truly world leading. It will help to build a high-skill, high-productivity workforce that is matched to employers’ needs to ensure that everyone, regardless of their background, can access the opportunities they need to thrive. Universities and colleges are already responding to the opportunities and challenges posed by artificial intelligence, and are considering those issues very seriously. Technology works best as a tool used by great teachers, and it is important to take a joined-up approach. Cheating of any kind is unacceptable. It threatens to undermine the reputation of our world-class higher education sector and devalues the hard work of those who succeed on their own merit.

Through Skills England, the Government will build the highly trained workforce that employers need. That will drive economic growth and deliver the national, regional and local skills needs of the next decade. We are doing that because skills will play a critical and crucial role in the industrial strategy, driving growth through increased productivity and creating well-paid jobs, which increase opportunities for everyone.

[Tahir Ali]

Does the Minister agree that the skills agenda should not be left simply with universities and colleges, but should start at secondary school and continue all the way through? There should be no barriers to opportunity for young individuals who want to access it.

[Janet Daby]

I thank my hon. Friend for making that excellent point. No one is too young to learn a skill. Skills should be learned throughout a child’s educational journey, and they should begin at home.

Higher technical qualifications and universities go hand in hand in developing essential skills for the future for learners from all backgrounds. HTQs have been introduced to champion the quality available at levels 4 and 5, with qualifications that have been independently approved as providing the skills that employers need in specific occupations. They are helping to open up new opportunities for young people and are enabling adults to get the benefit of a university education.

For example, Tarza undertook a level 5 HTQ in healthcare practice at Newcastle College university centre, and is now at the University of Sunderland completing her adult nursing bachelor’s. The HTQ at the university centre gave her the clinical skills she needed and allowed her to learn as a mature student, despite being out of education for so long beforehand. That is one example of many. The Government’s support for the future skills programmes at universities is a comprehensive and forward-thinking strategy designed to meet the evolving needs of the economy and society.

Free School Meals: Children with SEND

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Westminster Hall

[Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered access to free school meals for children with special educational needs and disabilities.

It is an honour to serve under your chairship, Dr Huq, and thank you to all of the hon. Members for supporting the debate today. I am pleased to be leading this debate on fair access to free school meals for disabled children and those with special educational needs, to ensure that their voices are heard in this House.

I thank my constituent Irene Dow, because it was after meeting Irene and hearing about her experience as a parent and the shocking unfairness in the current system that I applied for the debate. In the Gallery with her are staff and campaigners from the charity for families with disabled children, Contact. Their incredibly powerful research and campaigning has been fundamental to the debate, and the support they have given to families has been absolutely invaluable.

It was a privilege today to meet campaigner and parent Natalie Hay, who is here with her son. She started campaigning on this issue after realising that many disabled children were eligible for free school meals but were unable to access them. I commend her for her interview today on Sky, for many reasons. I place on record the importance of the work that Irene, Natalie, Contact and many other campaigners do, and I pay tribute to everything they have done to put this injustice on the political agenda. They should not have had to fight this hard and for so long, and I sincerely hope that the Minister will be able to give us assurances that the Government will act swiftly in response. We saw, at Prime Minister’s questions today, how fast the Government can act to respond to an injustice, if the political will is there.

The key issue I wish to raise is that thousands of children with special educational needs and disabilities are missing out on the free school meals that they are eligible for due to their disability or sensory needs. That is despite the law being clear that most should be offered an alternative, such as a supermarket voucher. Children with conditions such as diabetes, epilepsy and autism are subsequently missing out on the equivalent of £570 a year of financial help. That is causing many families to fall into debt and means that they need to turn to food banks, which is completely unacceptable and totally unnecessary. Contact calculates that more 164,000 disabled children are unable to access their free school meals.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that food bank numbers are at a record high? Children are going to school hungry, and this is often the only hot meal that they will have. On top of that, if children with sensory needs or disabilities are missing out on their entitlements, the Government and statutory organisations need to do a lot more to make sure that no child misses out on those.

[Ian Byrne]

I totally agree. Contact calculates that more than 164,000 disabled children are unable to access their free school meals despite meeting the Government’s eligibility requirements. That is truly shocking. Access to food is a basic human right, and campaigning for universal free school meals is one of the five key asks of the “Right to Food” campaign. While we wait for that, we must ensure that the current system is fair and equal and that it delivers, in practice, what it claims to deliver. Disabled children and their families are already more likely to be living in poverty due to the difficulties of juggling care and work. Research shows that they have also been disproportionately affected by cost of living pressures and the pandemic.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Monday 17th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Nick Gibb]

I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend. Progress is being made in identifying and securing a site on which to relocate the school. Officials continue to work with Devon County Council and the diocese of Exeter. I thank my hon. Friend for his support in progressing the discussions. The next step is for site appraisals to take place on potential new locations, and officials will continue to keep my hon. Friend informed.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

T2. A record 40,000 teachers in England resigned last year; teacher vacancies have doubled in the last two years; and agencies and underfunded training programmes are struggling to send qualified teachers to schools. Amy Lassman, the headteacher of Nelson Mandela Primary School, an outstanding primary school in my constituency, tells me that that is affecting students the most, with many failing their classes. Will Ministers tell us what they intend to do to narrow the attainment gap and raise standards, when we have fewer and fewer teachers?

[Nick Gibb]

We continue to raise standards in our schools, as the hon. Gentleman will know. He should not talk down the profession. This is an exciting time to join teaching. It is an honour to be able to work with children and to shape the next generation. This year, 47,000 people came into teaching, a number that is broadly similar year on year, because this is a good profession to join and there is a Government that will support the teaching profession.

Department for Education

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

In my constituency, many children are going to school and having their only meal of the day there, because of the crisis that this Government have forced on the residents of our constituencies. Does the hon. Member agree that it is absurd that that is happening? Many schools are not even opening for the full five days.

[Munira Wilson]

The hon. Gentleman must be psychic or have very good eyesight, because he has pre-empted what I was about to say about free school meals. About 2.6 million children are in families that experience food insecurity; as he says, the reality is that many children are going to school hungry, because parents are struggling to put food on the table. Hunger and poor nutrition affect children’s ability to learn, their development and their mental health. How can our most disadvantaged children, who already have a much bigger gap in attainment as a result of the pandemic, be expected to catch up? I pay tribute to the schools and teachers up and down the country who are working their socks off to put additional support and interventions in place to help them to catch up, but how can children who are going to school with empty tummies and sitting hungry in lessons be expected to benefit from the catch-up?

I sincerely hope that the Government will think again and take the advice of yet another Government adviser they chose to ignore: Henry Dimbleby, who advised them on their food strategy. He recommended that every child in a family in receipt of universal credit should be entitled to a free school meal. To be honest, I am shocked that that is not already the case. I really urge the Secretary of State: if she does one thing in her first few days, please will she address that? It is a scandal that children are going to school hungry.

The Ark John Archer Primary Academy in Clapham is not in my constituency, but I visited it recently because I was told about the fantastic early years offer that it is developing; Ark has invested money, alongside the Government’s paltry investment in early years, to support some of the poorest children. The headteacher asked me why, although some two-year-olds are eligible to receive 15 hours of free childcare a week because they are from disadvantaged backgrounds, we are not providing them with free school meals. It just seems really odd. The school is funding meals for everybody, right across its nursery and primary provision. Whether the child is eligible or not, they are making sure that every child gets a healthy, nutritious meal.

The school pointed out to me that with some childcare providers, disadvantaged two-year-olds who are getting free childcare are having to bring in a packed lunch—quite possibly not a very nutritious one, but with cheap things that the parents can afford—and will be sitting alongside children whose parents are able to pay for their childcare and who are getting a far better lunch. I find that contrast between the haves and the have-nots really quite distasteful. When the Education Secretary looks at free school meals, will she look at the case of two-year-olds?

As has been said many times in this place, our childcare costs are among the highest in the world. In the cost of living crisis, parents are struggling even more to make ends meet with their nursery and childcare fees. Liberal Democrat analysis of Coram statistics suggests that parents in inner London who fund 50 hours per week of childcare will have seen an increase in costs of almost £2,000—I will say that again: £2,000—over the past year. That is just shocking. The problem is that as childcare costs go up and parents struggle to make ends meet with their mortgage or rent, their food and their other bills, fewer and fewer children will be put into childcare. That is bad for a range of reasons.

Children’s Education Recovery and Childcare Costs

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Tuesday 7th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend is extremely experienced in this space, and he is a great champion for physical education and young people. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester, who will be closing the debate, is working closely with colleagues in the Department of Health and Social Care and hopes to have news on this front before too long. I recognise the importance of these issues.

In 2021, we launched the £5 million accelerator fund for English as part of the Government’s education recovery package; the fund is targeted at 60 local authority districts identified as most in need of specialist intervention. To date, more than 430 schools have been provided with funding to adopt DFE-validated phonics schemes and the training to implement them successfully.

The Government continue to make sustained investment to support the most disadvantaged pupils to recover lost learning. Building on the flagship pupil premium worth £2.6 billion this year, the recovery premium provides an additional £1.3 billion over this and the next two academic years to help schools deliver evidence-based approaches that will boost progress for pupils with the most ground to make up.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

Nearly 45% of children in my Birmingham, Hall Green constituency live in relative poverty—more than double the national average. An area of Sparkbrook in my constituency has the highest rate in the region, a staggering 67%. Many of these children come from families that are not in work, and other families rely on universal credit.

Given the cost of living crisis, stagnant wages and the cut to universal credit, this situation is bound to worsen significantly. Does the Minister agree that the Government’s current offer is not good enough for the 67% of children living in poverty? Is it not time for the Government to seriously consider expanding eligibility for free childcare, as well as increasing the total amount of free childcare available to families?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman raises some important points in what I might describe as an expanded intervention. We want to ensure that we target support at disadvantage, and I am trying to set out the detail of how we are doing that.

As I mentioned, from the next academic year we will maintain the primary rate and almost double the rate for eligible secondary school students, as they are further behind and have less time left in education to catch up. We have also extended the recovery premium to all pupils in special schools and alternative provision, not just to those who are eligible for the pupil premium, and we have doubled the primary and secondary rates for these pupils in recognition of the higher per pupil costs incurred.

This year, we have also published a new menu of approaches—

Independent Review of Children’s Social Care

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Monday 23rd May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Will Quince]

My hon. Friend is a fount of experience on this and many other issues, especially those relating to safeguarding. She is right that we have to consider different and innovative approaches to keep families together wherever possible. When that cannot work, we should look into alternative arrangements. In future, I would like to pick my hon. Friend’s brains. I want all Members to contribute to how we deliver on the review.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

First, will the Minister join me in extending gratitude to the thousands of social workers and family foster care workers who do the hard work day in, day out? We have a huge difficulty in my Birmingham, Hall Green constituency with children not being matched with families from certain minority groups because of the lack of awareness and the lack of families coming forward to foster. Will the Minister commit to making sure that when foster carers are not coming forward, everything will be done to encourage Muslim families and ethnic minority families to do so, so that the children do not miss out and the responsibilities to them are taken seriously?

[Will Quince]

I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman’s question. There are few professions that can claim to transform lives as much as child and family social workers. I know that he and colleagues from across the House will join me in paying tribute to those who work hard to support our most vulnerable children and families, delivering some of the most challenging and important work that is out there. We have invested another £100 million over the next two years alone in the recruitment, retention and professional development of child and family social workers in England, and we will do more in that space. Specifically related to his question about minority groups, he is right that we have a shortage of foster carers generally. All across the country, we need more foster carers of all different backgrounds to come forward, so we will be looking at a fostering campaign. We also need adopters to come forward, too. All of us across this House have a duty—even a moral imperative—to encourage as many people as possible to consider those roles.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting)

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd December 2021 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

Order. The interventions are straying a little bit away from the amendment. I would be grateful if we could return to the subject of the amendment, exciting though that exchange was.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

Compare high unemployment with the youth unemployment in core cities. The opportunities and pathways available to those young people are almost non-existent. Where local authorities, such as Birmingham, have worked tremendously hard to bring down youth unemployment, it has been reversed as a direct result of the actions taken by Government. In Birmingham, for example—

[The Chair]

Order. Interventions should be a lot shorter than that. I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Gentleman, but we must keep to the point. I will allow him one sentence to finish his intervention, then we will go back to Toby Perkins.

[Tahir Ali]

Does my hon. Friend agree that more needs to be done to address youth unemployment and apprenticeships?

[Mr Perkins]

Absolutely, and I thank my hon. Friend for that point. It is precisely the motivation behind the amendment, which we will get the opportunity to vote on. I think his point is incredibly important. Many young people in cities such as Birmingham look at the future and find that jobs are very thin on the ground. Even thinner on the ground are careers, rather than jobs. I am talking about opportunities to develop skills and get involved in a long-term career, as opposed to a casual job where they go to work, come home and are still living in poverty. That is why skills are so important, and why this investment is so important.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

I very much hope that the hon. Gentleman is invited next year. I look forward to seeing him.

[Tahir Ali]

Have him as your guest.

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green suggests I take the hon. Member for Warwick and Leamington as my guest. I was myself a guest. I am sure those organising will have heard his appeal for a ticket.

We want more apprenticeships. We have a great many fantastic employers in this country, providing wonderful opportunities for people at all levels at the moment. We are going to see that increase under the commitment that the Government have made. It is for the Government to consider when might be the right time for a review of apprenticeship reforms, through consultation with stakeholders. For now, we want to focus on improvements to apprenticeships to make them attractive to employers in more sectors. We want to focus on making apprenticeships relevant in new and changing occupations, and on improving quality.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [ Lords ] (Fourth sitting)

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 2nd December 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Perkins]

The Government have decided to continue with Ofqual as a regulator of academic qualifications in England, and new powers are granted in the Bill to the institute to approve technical qualifications in the future. It is vital that both public bodies have the necessary statutory underpinning to carry out their roles effectively, and to ensure that there is no conflict of interest. We consider that the clause is insufficient, as it does not clearly define the roles of Ofqual and the institute in law to ensure a single regulatory framework, where all qualifications are regulated and treated in exactly the same way.

The Bill proposes a two-tier system of regulatory approval for qualifications, with Ofqual approving and regulating academic qualifications and the Institute for Apprenticeships and Technical Education approving technical qualifications. We are worried that that may reinforce the apparent low public confidence in technical qualifications. Ensuring that technical qualifications have parity of esteem with academic ones has been a challenge for successive Governments, and it is precisely one of the things that T-levels set out to address. We are therefore concerned that Ofqual is established as the independent regulator for what are seen as the academic qualifications, with a different organisation for the technical qualifications. We believe that that creates an artificial divide between the two routes.

The roles to be played by Ofqual and the institute in regulating technical qualifications need to be clarified, because the Bill indicates that it will bring about a dual regulatory system. Ofqual is established as the independent regulator under the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009. That legislation introduced an independent regulator following a period of scandals and instability in the regulation of the qualifications and examination system.

There are worries that the Bill will introduce material conflicts of interest, because the institute will be the owner and provider of T-levels, as well as the regulator, with powers to decide which other technical qualifications might compete with T-levels and should be approved or withdrawn. For funding purposes, the organisation that owns T-levels will decide what happens to the other qualifications that exist. Our amendment seeks to address that and to give greater clarity on the different organisations and bodies.

I turn to amendment 48. It is essential for the Government to unveil what they deem to be useful qualifications before the Bill is passed. As with so much in the Bill, the Minister leaves a great deal to the imagination or to future clarification. Conservative Members have been remarkably trusting of what the Government have told them so far and have not told us a huge amount about what they think, with the honourable exception of the hon. Member for Great Grimsby. When it comes to the votes, however, we have seen that those Members are persuaded that the Minister will deal with everything later.

Amendment 48 would require a panel of experts to determine what a high-quality qualification is, ensuring that if qualifications are abolished, it will be left to those experts—working to criteria set by the Secretary of State—to understand whether that has been done because the qualifications lack the necessary qualities. There is a real concern in many people’s minds that the Government are undermining BTECs and other level 3 qualifications by setting out to defend T-levels, on which they are getting small numbers of people, and trying to get rid of all the alternatives.

If the reason for getting rid of BTECs is, as the Government say, that the qualification is not of the necessary quality, let us see the evidence for that. Let us have a team of experts look at all the factors—people’s ongoing progression routes, whether they get jobs after the qualifications, whether they can access universities and whether they are able to perform when they get to university—and let us see the criteria for establishing whether qualifications are of high quality. So far, the approach seems to have been pretty much of the back-of-a-fag-packet kind.

The Minister’s and the Secretary of State’s predecessors initially stood at the Dispatch Box and said, “We’re scrapping BTECs because they are of low quality.” Then they said, “We’re not going to get rid of them all, just some of them. We will get rid of the poor-quality ones.” We say, reasonably, “All right, but people studying those qualifications today want to know whether what they are studying is of high quality or not.”

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that a quality BTEC qualification would lead to skills and jobs? We should be focusing on BTECs, which have a good history, rather than getting rid of them and replacing them with something that is nowhere near as established.

[Mr Perkins]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. I know from what he said on Second Reading that this is a matter of significant personal interest to him because of his own and his son’s history with BTECs, which he outlined. I am in exactly the same position. My son did a level 2 and a level 3 BTEC, having not done particularly well in GCSEs. He subsequently went on to university, completed his bachelor’s degree and is now in the process of completing his master’s. The BTEC provided a pathway and a bridge from—not to put too strong a point on it—failure in mainstream schooling to academic success. We know that BTECs have a history of turning around the lives of people up and down the country. This needs to be handled extremely carefully before decisions are taken that undermine those qualifications.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Perkins]

I accept the clarification, and the hon. Lady makes an important point. If she is saying that not all level 3 qualifications are BTECs, I understand that, and I will come on to that when I speak to other amendments. There are many other important qualifications that are not BTECs, but BTECs make up the largest number of them, which is why many of us identify them in those terms. Both BTECs and T-levels are overarching brand names, if we want to put it in such terms. I have no objection to the brand names. If it is felt that T-levels will eventually be viewed with more regard by the public than BTECs—having the word “level” in them makes them sound more like a A-levels—I am fine with that, but the Government initially trashed the BTEC qualifications without telling us which ones they thought were good or bad.

[Tahir Ali]

In my industry of engineering and where I come from, there is a saying: “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

[Mr Perkins]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes an important point.

[Mr Perkins]

If I may, I will respond to my hon. Friend, who makes an incredibly important point. Even more worrying is the fact that the Government initially went out there and said, “This qualification is broken and we are going to replace it,” but when the sector more generally—86% of respondents to their consultation—said, “This is a huge mistake”, the Government said, “Okay, we will only get rid of some of it, not all of it.” When we ask which bit they will get rid of, they say, “The low-quality bit,” but when we ask which bit that is, they say, “We do not know; we are going to do a review.” That is no way to do policy. It needs to be done the other way around. Identify which of the qualifications are not working, do all the research, find out where people are not getting on to the courses and then start talking about why we are getting rid of the qualifications.

[Tahir Ali]

On the issue of quality, lawyers make a lot of money from the word “reasonable”. Similarly, how do you define quality? I challenge anyone to do that.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne]

The hon. Lady can shake her head, but I invite her to Ashton Sixth Form College and Stockport College, and she can get into the real world.

[Tahir Ali]

I take great exception to the word “brand” being used for the BTEC. The BTEC is not a brand; it is a qualification achieved by those who do not want to pursue an academic route. If BTEC is a brand, GCSEs are a brand, A-levels are a brand, BSc is a brand, masters degrees are a brand. It is nonsense, and it is abhorrent to even refer to BTEC as a brand. The only brands Government Members are interested in are the ones that cost a lot of money.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lia Nici]

My hon. Friend is right. A huge number of jobs are available. What we need to do now, and the Bill will enable us to do it, is pivot on an axis to ensure that employers are fully involved. We have some very good education providers in post-compulsory technical that work with employers, but a lot more work needs doing. When I go to see employers in my constituency, they all say that they have jobs available but cannot get people with the right skills. We have to do something about that, not only for our employers and our economy but for our constituents.

My constituency of Great Grimsby is the most wonderful place to live, but our skill levels are not where they need to be, for people in and out of work. If we are to level up for everybody across the country, particularly in my home town of Great Grimsby, T-levels will be a fantastic way for us to move forward. Apprenticeships are also extremely valuable, as people can earn while they learn. I am extremely concerned that we seemingly have a moral panic to try to get headlines to worry young people. I say to young people, and older people who are looking to train to level 3 qualifications, that it is not the disaster that it is being portrayed as for the sake of headlines.

There is a reason we do not want a long moratorium on such things as BTECs, which the Opposition are mentioning over and over again. I have worked in further education for 22 years. I have taught secondary school students and lectured at higher education level, and I happen to have a diploma at level 3, level 4 and level 5—a higher national diploma—one of which happens to be a BTEC. We want to ensure that education providers know exactly what is happening with a deadline. They are now ready to pivot on that. I have been talking to my biggest provider, Grimsby Institute of Further and Higher Education, and its experience of T-levels so far is utterly outstanding.

[Tahir Ali]

The hon. Member mentioned jobs in her constituency. I am aware that fishing is a significant sector in Great Grimsby. Will there be a T-level in fishing or swimming?

[Lia Nici]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. Great Grimsby has a history of fishing. Actually, it was the Icelandic cod wars and joining the EU that ended our fishing industry. We still have a very important fish processing industry that employs around 5,000 to 6,000 people in the town directly. I am working with the fishmongers’ association, Seafish, and my local colleges and industry to look at new apprenticeships and T-levels, so he is right: I am working on that. It is extremely important, because we have lots of people in our communities who are working at extremely high levels and have no qualifications. We need to consider not only people who are new into the workplace but those who are working and are specialists in their field. I see them every week when I am out and about. They talk passionately and are very knowledgeable—to level 5, 6, 7 and beyond—and they worked their way through. We need to ensure that qualifications can do that as well.

Skills and Post-16 Education Bill [Lords]

Tahir Ali Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 15th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I share the experience of the Secretary of State, having come to this country unable to speak a word of English—but I was only 13 months old. I am proud to be a product of BTEC, and not BTEC politics but BTEC engineering. I am probably right to surmise that Government Members who hold BTEC qualifications will be lower in number than those who are Etonians.

As a product of BTEC engineering, having secured an apprenticeship, been enrolled on to a course and achieved grades at merit or distinction, I was encouraged to study at undergraduate level at a local university. I was the first in my family to attend university, and my graduation was one of the proudest days for my parents. Thirty years on, my son, Tayab Ali, left school with good GCSEs but did not want to do A-levels. Like his father, he did BTEC engineering, which he completed in 2019 with grades of distinction star, distinction star, distinction. After covid, he secured an apprenticeship and is now studying for a degree paid for by his employer, just like mine was.

Not everyone takes the A-level route of some academics. As someone said earlier, no one would mess with A-levels, so why are we talking about scrapping BTECs and promoting T-levels instead? That risks holding back 80,000 students from achieving a level 3 qualification. My son would not have been able to achieve such a qualification. BTECs are valued highly by employers and universities, with 230,000 students having achieved a level 3 BTEC qualification this year alone.

The DFE wants to remove funding from any BTEC qualifications deemed to overlap with A-levels or T-levels, which seriously risks affecting students from the most disadvantaged backgrounds pursuing those qualifications, and disproportionately impacting those with special educational needs and those from Asian ethnic groups.

It is no surprise that 86% of respondents to the DFE’s consultation disagreed with the plans to scrap BTECs. I urge the Government to abandon their plan to withdraw support and funding for BTECs and to provide the best range of options for all young people to consider.

Covid-19: Education Settings

Tahir Ali Excerpts

Tuesday 6th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Gavin Williamson]

My hon. Friend is a man who likes to chew off a Secretary of State’s ear, especially when it comes to condition improvement funding for his schools. It is great to see four schools benefiting from his assiduous lobbying, making sure that he is delivering for his constituency.

My hon. Friend raises an important point about the use of pupil premium funding. We want to see schools considering how it can be more effectively targeted, especially at pupils from the most disadvantaged backgrounds and those who need extra support. In the past, far too often, pupil premium funding has been seen as just another stream of funding going into schools. We need schools to consider how pupil premium funding is delivering for the pupils it is targeted at.

[Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab) [V]]

Can the Secretary of State explain how children will access free school meals if they have to isolate away from holiday activities and food programmes during the summer? Does he agree with me that a cash transfer system, enabling parents to get the supplies that are right for their children, would ensure that better support reaches all those who need it?

[Gavin Williamson]

The hon. Gentleman raises a valuable point, and it is why the extra support provided by the Department for Work and Pensions, through local authorities, to ensure children are fed through the summer is such an important part of our holiday activity and food programme, which will of course be delivering not just food for so many students but activities that are just as valuable.