Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Amber Rudd]

Of course, I will meet my hon. Friend to ensure that the right decisions have been made, but I would point out that she has drawn attention to one of the benefits of universal credit: a monthly assessment allows a much more accurate payment to be made to individual applicants.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

T5. The Minister referred earlier to record levels of employment, but is it not a fact that this is only because the Tories are running a slave economy, with 4 million people on bogus self-employment, zero-hours contracts and agency work, waiting to know whether they are going to be working from one day to the next?

[Amber Rudd]

As I was able to say earlier, only under 2.5% are on zero-hours contracts. The facts do not support the hon. Gentleman’s approach. He can have his own views; he cannot have his own facts.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 2nd July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Newton]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. As part of our continuous improvement of PIP, we work closely with healthcare professionals so that we can speed up the process and make sure that we get all the right information to make the best possible decision the first time around.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

15. What recent representations she has received from people affected by the pension transition arrangements for women born in the 1950s.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

The Department has received a number of representations from people regarding changes to state pension age since 1995, and the matter has been comprehensively debated on many occasions. Women will receive their state pension either at the same age as men or earlier as we remove the current inequality.

[Mr Hepburn]

The Government have seen fit to award the richest personal earners and the top five wealthiest corporations in the country tens of billions of pounds in tax cuts. Do the Government think that the Tories are being fair when they steal the pensions of women to stuff their friends’ pockets?

[Guy Opperman]

It is always good to hear the dinosaur that is my friend from the north-east, the hon. Member for Jarrow (Mr Hepburn). He was in government between 1997 and 2010 when he could have changed the law and did not. The reality of the situation is that the richest 1% have never paid more tax than at present and that corporation tax reductions create jobs, as has been comprehensively proved. He, I am afraid, has no grasp of the facts as they now are.

Work Capability Assessments

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[David Linden]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I will come to that point in a moment.

I will talk about the difficulties faced by certain groups, in particular people with mental health conditions or learning disabilities, in navigating the WCA process; the lack of information about outcomes for individuals following fit for work determinations; and concerns about the risk of poverty and destitution as a result of incorrect decisions. I also want to touch on the relatively high success rate of appeals against ESA decisions, and the difficulties experienced by claimants seeking to challenge fit for work decisions, including the fact that ESA is not payable pending a mandatory reconsideration, meaning that the only option in the meantime is to claim jobseeker’s allowance, potentially exposing an individual to inappropriate conditionality.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned mandatory reconsiderations. Is he aware that Department for Work and Pensions staff are informing people that mandatory reconsiderations will be delayed over Christmas because of the excess workload they face? Through him, can I ask the Minister to transfer staff from bringing in the sanctions and stopping the money, to the mandatory reconsiderations, so that people get their money?

[David Linden]

I know that the Minister is respected across the House for listening; I am sure she will have heard that point, and I hope the hon. Gentleman gets an answer to it in the wind-ups.

Finally, I will touch on the impact of assessments, frequent reassessments and poor decision making on the physical and mental health of claimants. We could easily spend the next hour and a half trading statistics across the Chamber, but I prefer to focus on real people and those whom I have been elected to represent. Throughout my short time as Glasgow East’s MP, I have seldom had a surgery in which a constituent has not come to me having been the subject of a flawed work capability assessment.

One such case was that of my constituent, David Stewart from Baillieston. David suffers from hidradenitis suppurativa and has had numerous abscesses over the years requiring extensive surgery and skin grafts. It is not uncommon, at times, for him to receive morphine up to six times a day. His own general practitioner stated clearly that David should not be working, yet he was found fit for work at a work capability assessment. It was only after my office intervened and helped him draft a mandatory reconsideration that that decision was finally, and justly, overturned. That brings me to the first issue I want to raise with the Minister today: the astonishingly high level of successful appeals against work capability assessment decisions.

State Pension Age for Women

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Wednesday 5th July 2017 Westminster Hall

[Grahame Morris]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I hope that the Minister is taking due note of it. When a large delegation of women adversely affected by the changes came to see me, I checked the HMRC website, and a lot of the information is out of date, even on the number of people affected. I think that 2.4 million was the number originally quoted, but it is now generally accepted that the number is 3.5 million.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Grahame Morris]

I will give way just one more time.

[Mr Hepburn]

My hon. Friend is very generous. Just to place the numbers in context, is he aware that more than 4,000 women in the Jarrow constituency alone have been robbed of their thoughts of a happy retirement? That has been stolen from them by a Tory Government, who are more willing to give a £1 billion bung to the DUP to save their necks in government than they are to look after people who have worked for a lifetime just to be happy in retirement.

[Grahame Morris]

Absolutely. There is a moral argument and a factual argument. I hope the Minister and his advisers will go away and reflect on the debates that have taken place—not just this debate in Westminster Hall, but the number of debates in the previous Parliament where the arguments were soundly put.

I find it difficult to understand how in any other circumstances the House would not consider this issue of inadequate notice—or, indeed, no notice—to be a case of maladministration. Various Members have raised that issue. Had any other public body failed in such a way, whether that was a Government agency or local government, there would rightly be demands for support and compensation for those affected. Those are legitimate demands, and I understand that they have been made collectively on behalf of the Women Against State Pension Inequality Campaign in a joint letter to the Department. I hope the Minister will comment on that.

The decision to accelerate the increases in the state pension further compounded the failings, with an impact on the same cohort that had already been failed by the 1995 Act. Age UK research found that some of the people affected, who had not been aware of the 1995 legislation, now face waits of up to six years more than they had been expecting before they can access their pension.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 27th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that personal independence payment assessments are undertaken fairly and efficiently.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

17. What steps his Department is taking to ensure that personal independence payment assessments are undertaken fairly and efficiently.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Penny Mordaunt)]

The Department robustly monitors provider performance and independently audits assessments. Assessment reports deemed unacceptable are returned for rework. A range of measures, including contractual remedies, are used to address performance falling below those standards.

[Penny Mordaunt]

If the hon. Lady would let me have sight of that case, I will look into it in particular, because it is unacceptable and falls below the performance and the courtesy, quite frankly, that we would want from our providers. People’s personal experience is very important in getting this process right. I am pleased to be able to say that from April we will commence the user rep panels, with about 300 people initially, across the UK, to whom we will give real-time experience of PIP and ESA—employment and support allowance.

[Mr Hepburn]

We have all had cases like that, but could it not only be an arrogant Tory Government who ignore legal decisions that override expert medical opinion in order to deprive people with mental health issues of the right to benefits? What level of cuts has the Minister promised the Chancellor in order to get this policy through?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is being very irresponsible in saying that. He knows that there is no change to policy, to budget or to award amounts. I remind him that people with mental health conditions are receiving higher levels of benefit than they did under DLA. This benefit is not about people’s conditions; it is about the impact that those conditions have on the individual’s ability to thrive and live their life as they would wish. It is quite wrong and irresponsible to suggest anything otherwise.

Construction Companies (Fatal Accidents)

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

I am pleased to have secured this debate on an important subject that is all too often ignored. Construction is the most dangerous industry in the UK. Indeed, the recent unplanned collapse and tragedy at Didcot power station highlighted the dangers faced by construction workers on a daily basis. Last year, 35 workers were killed. That is more than in any other industrial sector, but amazingly it was a record low for the construction industry. In recent years, there have been an average of 50 deaths a year in the construction industry—almost one a week. It is our duty to ensure that that level of loss of life does not continue.

To achieve that, we need a Health and Safety Executive that is effective and dedicated to protecting workers, but, sadly, the information that I have uncovered reveals that in the construction industry that is not occurring. Construction is an industry with inherent dangers, but it does not necessarily have to be inherently dangerous. Deaths and accidents largely occur because safety laws are deliberately ignored or flouted. Far too many companies involved in the construction industry are willing to break or bend safety rules to boost profits. In an industry where site organisation is low and there are not enough safety reps—partially as a result of the blacklisting scandal—it is imperative not only that the HSE does an effective job, but that it is seen to be doing its job effectively. Following a construction death, if a company or individual is at fault they must be prosecuted. The HSE’s own research found that in 70% of construction deaths, management failure caused or contributed to a worker losing their life.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In Northern Ireland we take a proactive approach to this issue, and the Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland carries out surprise visits to construction sites to ensure that complacency does not occur. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if we want to sharpen the construction industry up a bit and make it more effective and accountable, that is a way of doing it?

[Mr Hepburn]

That is also the policy on the mainland, but, as I will reveal, sadly it is not as effective as it used to be.

In 2007-08 the HSE was successful in prosecuting 51% of construction fatal accidents. By 2012-13 that figure had dropped to a mere—and disgraceful—35%. No blame should be placed on the legal system for failing to convict killer bosses. The HSE is successful in achieving a guilty verdict in more than 90% of all prosecution cases—an impressive figure. Put simply, if the HSE is failing to prosecute following construction deaths, and if there are not enough high-profile stories about the fines and penalties imposed on companies that cut corners to boost profits at the expense of a worker’s life, an ever greater number of companies will flout safety laws, safe in the knowledge that if a tragedy should occur they are unlikely to be punished. That is certainly not the end of my concerns about the HSE’s performance.

[Steven Paterson (Stirling) (SNP)]

Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the article in the Sunday Herald from 6 March 2016, entitled “Huge drop in construction safety inspections triggers fears for workers”? An academic from Stirling University in my constituency, Professor Andrew Watterson, who is part of the occupation and environmental health research group at the university, said:

“Westminster has savagely cut the budgets of the enforcement agency, the HSE, over many years…HSE increasingly looks and sounds like a toothless tiger—a lot of noise and increasingly little action.”

Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that description?

[Mr Hepburn]

I do recognise that description. It is the work of academics and trade unions that has brought about tonight’s debate. They are bringing these shortcomings to our notice.

There can be few worse experiences for a family than to lose a father, husband or son who has gone to work normally, like we all do, but, unlike the rest of us, has never come home. Even if a prosecution is mounted by the HSE, the agony of the bereaved family does not stop there. The delays between construction accidents occurring, then prosecution and conviction are excruciating. The problem is getting worse, not better. Families are being forced to put their lives on hold for years and years, with no hope of closure until they see those responsible for the death of their loved one brought to justice. Justice delayed is nearly as great a failure as justice denied.

In 2005, the average time between the death of a worker and a prosecution, was over two years. Ten years later, it has increased to two-and-a-half years. I must stress that these are averages, so the worst cases are a lot worse. The HSE has admitted that in 15% of cases prosecution does not even begin for three to four years. Beginning the prosecution, however, is just the beginning of the judicial process. There are many further stages that need to be completed before a conviction is achieved. In 2006-07, the average delay between a fatal accident and a conviction was 985 days. That was bad enough, but the latest figures are so much worse. In 2014-15, the average time between a fatal accident and a conviction in construction was now 1,267 days—or three-and-a-half years. I need to stress again that that figure is just an average. Delays in justice can be a lot longer.

Last week, Falcon Crane Hire was fined £750,000 following the collapse of one of its cranes in Battersea, which lead to the deaths of Jonathon Cloke, the crane driver, and Michael Alexa, a member of the public. That accident occurred in September 2006. It took nine-and-a-half years for justice to be done—nine-and-a-half years for the families of the victims of that accident to witness justice. I am sure the House agrees that nine-and-a-half years is far too long.

The Battersea crane accident might be the case with the longest delay, but it is not unique. I can give other examples. There are other ongoing cases where delays are highly significant. In January 2011, in the worst single accident for many years, Daniel Hazelton, Tom Hazelton, Adam Taylor and Peter Johnson were killed in a construction accident in Great Yarmouth. In February this year, over five years after the deaths of these workers, the case was finally referred to the magistrates courts. The eventual conviction of those concerned is still to come.

Given these agonisingly long delays, attention needs to turn to what the HSE’s response has been to the concerns that I and the Union of Construction, Allied Trades and Technicians, of which I am a proud member, have raised—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. If there is a case before the courts, we should not comment on it. We really ought to be aware that we do not want to put the House in the position of seeming to prejudge an individual case.

[Mr Hepburn]

Thank you for that advice, Mr Deputy Speaker.

UCATT and I have raised concerns about the delays in prosecutions and convictions. In response, the HSE says that the delays are due to other bodies and agencies, such as the police, the coroners courts and even the justice system itself, especially if the matter is referred to the Crown Court. In other words, the HSE is saying it is not its fault.

Well, this House and the families of the victims of construction workers deserve to know exactly who is to blame. The one group certainly not to blame is the victims and their families who are being treated in such an abominable manner. It is time for the HSE to stop passing the buck and blaming others. These are straightforward cases where a worker has died. They are not major inquiries into a war, or how the Government covered up their failures following Hillsborough. They should not take this long. These cases are straightforward. If these problems are to be laid at the door of the HSE, we need to know whether they are a result of the 35% real-terms grant cuts the organisation has suffered over the last five years, as was mentioned earlier.

At the start of my contribution, I said how important it was that the HSE had a high profile in order to discourage the breaking of safety laws in construction. There is another area where its performance has been found wanting. A freedom of information request by UCATT has revealed that since 2012-13, as the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned, the number of unannounced inspections made in the construction industry in the UK has declined by 8.7%. This decline occurred at a time when the industry was expanding and the number of sites in operation was increasing, following years of decline owing to the recession and Government cuts.

Within that overall decline were some truly shocking figures: the number of inspections in Scotland has dropped by 55%; in my region of the north-east, the number is down by 28.5%; in the north-west, the figures have declined by nearly a third; and in the south-east, where construction is booming, the number is down by 19%.

[Steven Paterson]

There are numbers that make this even clearer. The hon. Gentleman referred to the 55.7% drop. Some years ago, there were 1,248 inspections, but that has dropped to 552. It just shows how big a swing there has been.

[Mr Hepburn]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for making the statistics more graphic and showing how disgraceful they are.

These inspections are vital. They are the deterrent that keeps the industry honest and observant of safety laws. If companies think they will not be inspected and that there will never be a surprise knock at the door, the HSE loses all its authority in pressurising companies not to break safety laws. Laws will be flouted, workers will be put in danger and tragedies will occur. The House needs to know why the number of inspections is declining in an industry that is growing. Is it due to the cuts to the HSE’s budget, which must be affecting front-line services, is it because of the Government’s pressure to cut so-called red tape, or is it because the leadership of the HSE does not believe that such inspections are necessary?

I hope that my contribution today underlines just how vital it is that the HSE is given the resources, powers and confidence to do its job effectively. That means making sure that workplaces are safe for workers; that if laws are broken, action is taken quickly to resolve problems; that if a workplace tragedy should occur and if there is guilt, those responsible are punished and their penalties properly publicised; and that the quest for justice does not drag on indefinitely. Only by achieving these aims can the HSE properly play its role in keeping workers safe. I hope the Minister will agree and confirm that action will be taken to ensure that the problems I and others have addressed this evening are resolved.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vara]

As I have said, the facts prove that young people are getting into jobs a lot more than they did before—certainly more than when the Labour party was in government.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

6. What estimate he has made of the proportion of working families likely to be affected by the Government’s reforms to benefits.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Duncan Smith)]

We are fundamentally reforming the welfare system to ensure that the benefits of work are always clear for all. As part of that, we are supporting working families who are on benefits to progress in work, increase their earnings and move away from welfare dependency.

[Mr Hepburn]

The Government’s humiliating U-turn on tax credits is to be welcomed, but the Chancellor has confirmed that another £12 billion of welfare cuts will take place. Is it not a fact that those cuts will affect the poorest, the most vulnerable and those who are struggling to survive in society, like families?

[Mr Duncan Smith]

With respect to the hon. Gentleman, it was made clear at the Budget by the Chancellor that the total package of changes includes changes to the welfare budget of £12 billion, but that other Departments are also involved in the process of getting rid of the deficit. I thought that the Labour party had said it was in favour of getting rid of the deficit, so the question is what it plans to do. I remind him that a huge amount of the savings are being made because more people are going back to work and fewer people are therefore claiming benefits.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 23rd June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Steve Webb]

On the contrary, the Pensions Commission—the hon. Gentleman often refers to the Pensions Commission, one of whose members is now a Labour peer—recommended that low earners needed an 80% replacement rate. Someone on the wage that he just gave gets an 80% replacement rate based on the state pension alone, so we are delivering—[Interruption.] That is after tax and national insurance. [Interruption.] They are paying national insurance at £10,000 a year, so they get about an 80% replacement rate without needing to be automatically enrolled. Setting up auto-enrolment for tiny amounts of saving is simply inappropriate.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made of the effect of sanctions on claimants of jobseeker’s allowance.

[The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Esther McVey)]

Sanctions have always been part of the benefits system and are imposed only where claimants fail to meet reasonable requirements. Sanctions play an important role in encouraging compliance: 70% of claimants say that sanctions are useful for them to follow the rules.

[Mr Hepburn]

Can the Minister explain why more than 50% of benefit claimants in my constituency whose benefits have been sanctioned have had the decision overturned? In the meantime, they had to live for weeks on nothing—unlike that lot over there, who stuff their nests. Is it not true that this scheme is nothing more than a con? The Government say that they are cutting benefits. They are cutting benefits, but they are taking them off the most vulnerable people in the country and leaving them out for ever.

[Esther McVey]

There are a couple of points I need to answer, because what was said was inaccurate. The figure for the overturns is 10%, not the high number the hon. Gentleman alluded to. At the same time, people on sanctions are still on benefits and have an underlying qualification to them. The hon. Gentleman is incorrect. Perhaps he does not like the fact that the number of people in work has gone up significantly under this Government and the number needing to claim benefits has gone down significantly.

Oral Answers to Questions

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Esther McVey]

I do not know whether the hon. Lady was smiling when she was describing all the good news that is happening. There is a record number of people into employment—over 30 million—youth unemployment has gone down for six consecutive months, and there is a record number of women in work. Perhaps she did not hear that, which is why I have repeated the good news that our long-term economic plan is working.

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

But in reality, is it not true that long-term unemployment is rising, and that youth unemployment has doubled in the past six months, all because the Government are carrying out a policy whereby, at the next general election, good, secure, well-paid and skilled jobs in the public sector will have been slashed by 1 million, all with the goal of getting a low-wage economy in which insecurity is rampant?

[Esther McVey]

The hon. Gentleman spoke with gusto, but that was all he spoke with, because those are not the facts. Long-term unemployment has gone down and more people are in work than ever before. Perhaps he should have read the figures before he stood up to speak.

Mesothelioma Bill [Lords]

Stephen Hepburn Excerpts

Monday 2nd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab)]

Let me first pay tribute to the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) for the genuine interest and compassion she has shown on this subject for a number of years. I am sure that, at the end of the day, we will get the outcome that we are all looking for.

Last Friday, I sadly attended the funeral of a great and old friend, Terry Smith, a local lad from Hebburn, a town in my constituency. He was a local activist, secretary of the local social club, the Iona club, of which I am a member, too. He was a member of the local church, St Aloysius. He was very active in the Society of St Vincent de Paul, and visited the sick. He was a long-term member of the Labour party, and would go out and distribute leaflets whenever he was needed. I am sure that we all know men of his kind—men who do a lot of work but who are unsung heroes, and who never ask for anything in return. Terry left school and went to work in the shipyards, but after a while he changed his career. He went to college, and then managed to get a job teaching. He taught for 28 years, until he retired.

Two years ago, Terry went to the doctor. After being given a medical, he was told that he had mesothelioma and had three months to live, or, if he had treatment and if he was lucky, he would make it to a year. However, because of his determination, his obvious faith and his medical treatment, he got through two years. It was very sad to be at his funeral last Friday: it was very sad for his friends, and, more important, it was very sad for his family.

Terry has now become part of a statistic. Every week, three people in the north-east die of mesothelioma. What most of those people have in common is that they are working-class, and were employed by a negligent employer who exposed them to the poisons of asbestos.

I welcome the scheme, and I think that the Minister has done a great job, because it has been kicking around in the long grass for long enough. It will impose a levy on the insurance industry, which will compensate victims who cannot trace an employer for whom they may have worked many decades ago and who may have gone bust since then, and cannot trace the employer’s insurance company either. The regional media welcome the scheme because they see it as an end to an injustice that we have witnessed for a long time, and, as I have said, I welcome it because it is an improvement on the status quo. However, the Bill falls far short of what the last Labour Government intended.

[Mr Kevan Jones]

I agree with what my hon. Friend has said about the regional media, but did he feel as concerned as I did about a headline in the Sunderland Echo which referred to a £300 million bonanza for asbestos victims? In fact, many of his constituents and mine will not be covered by the Bill, and will be short-changed.

[Mr Hepburn]

I think that many issues of that kind will be exposed as the Bill proceeds through its stages. The media gave the scheme a warm welcome because they did not know the details and the nitty-gritty.

The Bill falls short of what we intended when we issued our consultation document. It falls short in regard to the cut-off time—in its present form, it will deny compensation to thousands of mesothelioma victims and save the insurance companies millions—and it falls short in regard to the payments, which will be 75% of the average payment made following a civil claim. I think that the proportion should be 100%, and that insurance companies should be fined a further 25% for ignoring their responsibilities over the years. The money could then be used to establish some proper research on a cure for mesothelioma.

Why has the Bill been diluted, and why was it kicked into the long grass? Why has this taken so long? The answer is, quite simply, that the insurance companies’ fingerprints are all over the Bill. That shows the unhealthy relationship that the Tory party has with the insurance industry, which has pumped millions into the party’s coffers over the years. It also shows the value that the Government place on working people, especially those in the north-east. I wonder what would have happened if those people had been professionals in the south-east of England. I wonder what would have happened if, for example, judges had all of a sudden developed an occupational cancer as a result of inhaling hairs from their wigs. We know exactly what would have happened. Those would not have been working-class people breathing in asbestos fibres, and the Tories would have looked after their own people.

[Mark Reckless]

I do not make this point from a partisan perspective, but the hon. Gentleman said that the scheme was not as generous as the one that the previous Government had planned. Is there something about the disease, about the insurance industry or about politics in this country that explains why it has taken so long for us to reach this stage?

[Mr Hepburn]

This came about because of the Labour party’s links with the trade unions, which brought the issue to our attention. Labour Members in the last Parliament—many of whom are sitting here now—had a number of meetings with the then Prime Minister and with justice Ministers. The Bill has been a long time coming. It could have been here two years ago, but because the insurance industry was crawling around and because the Government wanted to appease it, it was kicked into the long grass. Eventually, however, the Minister—and all credit to him—took over the brief and, very recently, enabled us to make progress.

[Hywel Williams]

There is a long history of delayed compensation for such diseases. In the early 1960s, a campaign for compensation for slate workers began in Wales. It eventually led to the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979, but for 20 years or so, nothing at all happened.

[Mr Hepburn]

Indeed.

Let me end by saying that the Bill can be improved. There is time. However, if it is to be improved, the Government must stand up to the employers who have literally got away with murder, and they must stand up to the insurance companies which have literally robbed dead people of £1 billion. They must stand up for what is right. We are convinced that we are on the right side, and we want to know whether the Government will be on the right side. If they do not get on to the right side, they will be seen for what they are. They will be seen to be on the side of the privileged, the powerful and the wealthy, and, ultimately, to be letting cancer sufferers down.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Penning]

The hon. Gentleman makes an enormously important point. I can remember being in an asbestos suit not long ago, and the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse is a little older than me, and was in the fire service before me. So many lessons can be learned, and they need to be learned, because people have the disease and are suffering.

I think almost 100 different questions—some were very technical and nearly all of them were very important—have been asked during the debate, and it would be impossible for me to answer them all in the time I have been given. I will therefore write to hon. Members who have spoken, and for the benefit of those who have not taken part I will put the answers in the Library of the House so that everyone has an opportunity to read them.

I have listened very carefully to the debate, and I have tried not to be party political or partisan in any way, but nobody watching would think that the previous Administration had been in government for 13 years. The issue has been known about for many years and, as I said in my opening speech, Administrations should have dealt with it.

It is worrying that we have been asked why the Government have taken two years to sort out the problem. The consultation was very wide ranging, and no one would have known from it what the previous Government wanted. I cannot find out exactly what they wanted, because we are not allowed to see their papers. The consultation came out in February 2010, just before the general election, after which we had the purdah period, and then we came into office, and without knowing exactly what was intended, my predecessor and the very dedicated Lord Freud, the Minister in the other House, worked with the Secretary of State to bring forward this Bill.

Nothing is perfect, and I fully understand that hon. Members on both sides of the House want to table amendments in Committee and probably on Report. What is very important, however, is that the Bill is passed and regulations are laid, and that compensation gets out to the victims of this terrible disease and their loved ones. If even some points that have been discussed were put in, the Bill would have to go back to the Lords and that would mean a period of ping-pong. [Interruption.] I said some, not all points.

It is absolutely imperative to get the Bill through, or people who have waited for compensation, in some cases for decades, will not get it. If there is ping-pong on the Bill, we will be into the new year—the Leader of the House is sitting next to me—and although I will be as open minded and pragmatic as I can, the Bill needs to be put on the statute book.

[Mr Hepburn]

What about the 6,000 victims prior to the cut-off date? Why should they be victimised?

[Mike Penning]

I am good friends with the hon. Gentleman, and I know him well. I do not see it that way, as he knows, but I understand why he does. There has to be an arbitrary cut-off date, and the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) said that the date will be arbitrary whatever we do.

We have been in deep negotiations—there is no argument about that; it will all come out—but the insurance companies did not just stroll up to Lord Freud’s office and say, “By the way, can we do a deal?” They were dragged there, otherwise that would have been done under the previous Administration. The Bill is not perfect and it probably can be amended, but it must not be delayed.