Crime and Policing Bill

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 17th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Caroline Nokes)]

Order. I am imposing an immediate four-minute time limit. Members will see that many colleagues wish to get in this evening.

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

I rise to speak for new clause 106 and against new clauses 1 and 20.

I am grateful for this opportunity to place on the record my grave concerns about this hurried attempt to significantly alter our nation’s abortion laws. It is my view that by doing so we risk creating a series of unintended consequences that could endanger women, rather than protect and empower them. We need more time.

This is not a pro-choice versus pro-life debate. We already have the most inclusive abortion laws in Europe: medical abortion is available up to 24 weeks, which is double the European average, and we have the option of full-term abortion on medical grounds. Instead, today’s debate is about ensuring that legislation as significant as this—seeking to introduce a wholesale change to abortion laws affecting England, Scotland and Wales—is not rushed through without the chance for significant scrutiny. Indeed, 90 minutes of Back-Bench debate does not cut it, in my opinion.

We should, of course, treat women seeking an abortion with compassion and dignity—that goes without saying. As a councillor on Plymouth city council, I chaired the commission on violence against women and girls. Defending the voiceless is my guiding principle in politics, and it is with those women and unborn babies in mind that I make this speech.

As over 1000 medical professionals said in an open letter cited in The Telegraph today,

“If offences that make it illegal for a woman to administer her own abortion at any gestation were repealed, such abortions would, de facto, become possible up to birth for any reason including abortions for sex-selective purposes, as women could, mistakenly, knowingly or under coercion, mislead abortion providers about their gestational age. If either of these amendments were to become law, it would also likely lead to serious risks to women’s health because of the dangers involved with self-administered late abortions.”

They continue,

“Quite aside from the increased number of viable babies’ lives being ended beyond the 24-week time limit, there would likely be a significant increase in such complications if”

new clause 1 or 20

“were to pass, as they would remove any legal deterrent against women administering their own abortions late in pregnancy. The current law permits flexibility and compassion where necessary but, for these reasons, we believe a legal deterrent remains important.”

Many supporters of new clauses 1 and 20 claim that the 24-week time limit for abortions would not change, but that is misleading. Any time limit is meaningless if abortions are legalised all the way up to birth, for any reason, without a legal deterrent. My concern is that, once decriminalisation has taken place, further steps will be taken to expand abortion time limits. Indeed, many of the campaigners mentioned this afternoon are on record saying as much. It is important that we are realistic about that.

[Tonia Antoniazzi]

We are not here to amend the Abortion Act. This is not a Backbench Business debate. We are here to debate an amendment to the Crime and Policing Bill. I hope that the hon. Lady stands corrected.

[Rebecca Smith]

I do not think it is a case of being corrected. I have significant concerns that, should the new clauses be passed, those are the next steps—it is a bit of a slippery slope. We may just have to disagree on that.

Public opinion and professional advice are clear. Polling undertaken by ComRes reveals that only 1% of the public support the introduction of abortion up to birth, 70% of women would like to see a reduction in the time limit from 24 weeks to 20 weeks or less—still well above that of many of our European neighbours—and 89% of the population oppose the sex-selective abortions that new clauses 1 and 20 would allow.

[Freddie van Mierlo]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Rebecca Smith]

No, I will make some progress.

Those who champion new clause 1 claim that it is needed to stop arrests, long investigations and the prosecution of women, but it is important to highlight that prosecutions under sections 58 and 59 of the Offences Against the Person Act almost always relate to males inducing or coercing women into abortions. By decriminalising women, we would, by implication, also stop the opportunity to prosecute abusive or coercive males. To be prosecuted for aiding and abetting abortion, there needs to have been a case to answer in the first place.

Instead, I stand here to suggest a better route forward: new clause 106, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Dr Johnson). She has rehearsed the arguments for that new clause excellently, but I will add that freedom of information requests have revealed that one in 17 women who took pills by post required hospital treatment—equivalent to more than 10,000 women between April 2020 and September 2021. Further investigation found that the number of ambulance service call-outs relating to abortion increased in London. They also increased in the south-west, where my constituency is, from 33 in 2019 to 74 in 2020—a 124% increase. That correlates directly with the removal of the need for a doctor’s appointment. At-home abortions were made permanent by just 27 votes in March 2022. Polling in June 2025 found that two thirds of women support a return to in-person appointments. I call on the House to support new clause 106.

[Catherine Fookes]

I rise to speak in support of new clause 1, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), which would remove women from the criminal law on abortion. Before my election last year, I served as the director of the Women’s Equality Network Wales, and this issue has long been close to my heart.

Until very recently, violent men ending their partners’ pregnancies made up the bulk of prosecutions under this 1861 law, but recently we have seen a big rise in women being targeted, many erroneously. This is not a law that exists in Northern Ireland, Scotland, France, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or even, Members may be surprised to know, the most anti-abortion states of America, but it is increasingly used against women in this country.

I want to take some time today to speak about one of these women. I will call her Becca, which I stress is not her real name. I know about what happened to Becca because her mum and dad were horrified at what happened, and they want us to hear about the injustice this law causes and to think of Becca when we cast our votes later.

Draft Investigatory Powers (Communications Data) (Relevant Public Authorities and Designated Senior Officers) Regulations 2025

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

Tuesday 10th June 2025 General Committees

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr Murrison. I thank the Minister for his comments.

In a world of instant communication, it should come as no surprise that tackling crime often requires public officials to obtain communications data. That is obviously true of cases where it is necessary to keep the public safe, but increasingly for cases of fraud, intellectual property theft and similar crimes. The Investigatory Powers Act, introduced by the previous Conservative Government, clarified existing powers in that space and established new ones. It is right that future Governments expand on those powers to ensure that public bodies can enforce the law and stay up to date with the latest changes in how and where criminals operate. We therefore support the regulations before the Committee.

We also support the useful update of organisations that are choosing not to access those powers any more, including my local South Western ambulance service. We must ensure that mechanisms are in place to review and qualify the use of such powers where public safety conflicts with individual privacy. It is right that there are clear guidelines for when the powers can be used and for what purpose.

Given that the regulations operate within the framework set out by the Act, we do not need to revisit that debate in detail. I am confident that the safeguards and guardrails established by that Act are adequate, allowing public officials to strike the right balance between keeping us safe and protecting our freedoms. That balance always requires careful calibration, but today’s regulations do not pose a risk to it.

Although public authorities are granted enforcement powers in good faith, they do not always use them effectively for a wide range of reasons. It is vital to take steps to mitigate that, because if the powers are used incorrectly, public bodies not only risk allowing criminals to escape justice but risk damaging the case for using them in the first place.

With that in mind, what consultations have the Minister and his Department undertaken with the public authorities empowered by the regulations? Do those authorities have adequate resources and legal advice on the use of the new powers? What steps is his Department taking to assess the extension of similar powers to other public authorities in future?

Crime and Policing Bill

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 10th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

The Metropolitan police, as a whole, does in fact have record officer numbers, but it could have had about an extra 1,500 officers had its police and crime commissioner, Sadiq Khan, bothered to recruit them. In fact, Sadiq Khan was the only police and crime commissioner in the country to miss his recruitment target.

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the record of Conservative police and crime commissioners is unlike that of some police and crime commissioners representing other parties in this House? In Devon and Cornwall, Alison Hernandez has overseen the reopening of 14 police front desks. Perhaps police and crime commissioners representing other parties might like to take lessons from that.

[Chris Philp]

My hon. Friend is quite right. Conservative police and crime commissioners do tend to have much better track records on keeping police stations open and delivering lower crime figures.

I want to ask the Home Secretary some questions, and maybe the Policing Minister will respond to them at the end of the debate. Some measures that were in the previous Government’s Criminal Justice Bill have disappeared from this Government’s Bill, and I would be genuinely interested to hear the Government’s thinking on them.

One area that is conspicuously missing from this Bill is the measures on nuisance begging. The previous Government intended to repeal the Vagrancy Act 1824 using a statutory instrument once new replacement measures—contained in the old Bill—were on the statute books. I see that the new Bill, tabled by this Government, does not contain those nuisance begging measures.

Could the Policing Minister, either by intervening now, or in her winding-up speech, tell the House what the Government’s plans are around repealing the 1824 Act—or not—and around nuisance begging? Of course, were they to repeal that Act using a statutory instrument without introducing any new measures, there would be a lacuna in the criminal law. I am sure the whole House would appreciate an update.

Secondly, the previous Government’s Criminal Justice Bill contained a measure to compel perpetrators who had just been convicted of a criminal offence to appear in the dock for sentencing, with a power to use reasonable force to do so. There had been some distressing cases in which someone who had been convicted then refused to appear in the dock to face justice. That measure, as far as I can see, is not in the new Bill, and I would appreciate knowing the Government’s thinking on that.

The third omission I have noticed so far relates to the new offence of assaulting an emergency worker—also announced by the previous Government, I might add. The criminal behaviour order for people who assault a shop worker is welcome, but the previous Bill, as announced, contained a measure that said if someone repeatedly assaulted a retail worker—I think it was three times or more—they would be subject to electronic monitoring: a tag. I do not see that particular provision in this Bill. Again, I would be interested in the Policing Minister’s views on that.

I turn now to a matter that the Home Secretary made a great deal of in her speech, which is the change made in 2014 around shop theft involving goods worth £200 or less. Listening to the Home Secretary and Government communications around this matter, one might think it had ceased to be a criminal offence in 2014. That is, of course, not the case. Shoplifting goods of any value, including under £200, was and always has been a criminal offence, subject to section 1 of the Theft Act 1968.

Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 10th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

In the summer of 2001, on a University of Southampton history field trip to the east end of London—part of the course “The Making of Englishness” on changing notions of British and English national identity in relation to issues of race, ethnicity and immigration from 1840 to the present day—Professor Tony Kushner, who still teaches the course now, took us to a building on the corner of Brick Lane. That building was once a Huguenot chapel, then a Jewish synagogue, and is today a Muslim mosque. That visit changed my understanding and perception of how immigration has impacted our country, and of the place of refuge that we have been over the centuries.

Immigration to the UK is not a new thing, and issues with asylum and illegal immigration are also not new. Two years later, I did a stint in the European Parliament working for an MEP, and I spent some time researching the different asylum systems across the member states in response to the issues that we were facing under the previous Labour Government. Why was that? Because the number of immigrants had shot up, casework had rolled in, and it became obvious that then, as now, we were the final destination for a huge number of illegal immigrants.

Fast forward 20 years and I found myself the Cabinet member responsible for refugees in Plymouth. I saw at first hand the exceptional record of the previous Conservative Government in providing for those arriving legitimately as part of resettlement schemes in response to crises in Hong Kong, Ukraine and Afghanistan, and the integration and engagement that took place as more than half a million migrants and refugees settled here, facilitated by many, including my South West Devon constituents. I also saw the impact on local services, housing, health and schools: the cost of even legitimate immigration.

We all agree that we must tackle the numbers arriving in this country illegally so that we can better serve those who arrive legitimately—those claiming asylum through legitimate channels and not arriving here in small boats having passed through safe country after safe country. We must tackle those who ignore international asylum rules, designed so that the burden of those fleeing conflict, famine and persecution is shared equally among those nations that have a moral duty to offer refuge.

The number of those arriving illegally will, however, keep increasing unless we have a deterrent. That is why the Bill is so counterproductive. By removing not only the deterrence put in place by the last Conservative Government but repealing most of the Illegal Migration Act 2023, the new Labour Government are, in effect, removing any deterrent while also increasing the incentives for getting here illegally: the promise of claiming asylum regardless of whether someone arrives legally or illegally, and the promise of British citizenship. Talk about an open door policy.

Since the new Labour Government took office, so many debates involve highlighting the unintended consequences of their legislation. In this case, the unintended consequence is bound to be increased numbers of those likely to try to get to our shores—the complete opposite of what they want to achieve—and with that, a huge knock-on impact on housing, schools, healthcare and public services in general, all because the Government are naive enough to believe that a so-called Border Security Commander will solve the problem. Tackling illegal gangs is a noble aim, but the last time I checked, illegal gangs do not tend to identify themselves easily. All the while, the numbers arriving in this country will only keep increasing.

Without being defeatist, we struggle to tackle knife crime and drug gangs here on our own streets. I remain unconvinced, therefore, that we can tackle the tsunami of illegal boat crossings, which are already up a quarter on previous figures since this new Labour Government arrived, by simply tackling the black market that is driving illegal immigration. By all means tackle the gangs, but to rely on that with no deterrent and, instead, effectively reward those who make it here illegally, is doomed to fail. It reduces the value of doing the right thing and arriving here legally, and is a roll of the dice that is certain to fail before it has even started.

Child Sexual Exploitation and Abuse

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend is right. We will need a process to keep the House up to date on the next steps and actions that are taken forward. We will do that through the victims and survivors panel that will be established by the Safeguarding Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Yardley (Jess Phillips), and through regular updates on the work of the cross-departmental group of Ministers to pursue and take forward the recommendations.

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

I welcome today’s announcement; it is great to see some progress. I will not cover what has been said about the legal powers, but I am interested in the funding. When I led a commission in Plymouth, the money to pay for it came from the local authority’s in-year budget. I appreciate the £7 million in total that has been announced. However, the Home Secretary has talked a lot about the police. What additional funding will they receive to do this work on a local level? What additional funding will there be for the practicalities of holding these inquiries, outside the five initial local authorities? What funding will come forward for the interventions that might be recommended following the inquiries? We know that local authorities are incredibly cash-strapped, and this could potentially disincentivise them to follow through on these local inquiries. Finally, is that £7 million new money going into the violence against women and girls budget, or is it money that would have been spent elsewhere?

[Yvette Cooper]

On the funding to support the various measures we are taking forward, we have identified up to £10 million for additional investment to support further action. However, I cannot stress enough that this has to be part of the mainstream work that agencies, police forces and local councils do, because tackling child sexual exploitation and abuse cannot just be an add-on. It cannot be something that is done only if there is a particular announcement from the Government—it has to be done as part of the core responsibilities of police forces and local councils and included in their funding. That is why we want our mission to halve violence against women and girls to be the central mission right across agencies and right across the Government, as well.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rebecca Smith Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. The mission needs be right across the UK. We must address this issue in all corners of our country, work in partnership, and learn from what has and has not worked in keeping women safe. We will continue to do that.

[Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)]

The right hon. Lady may be aware of Plymouth’s “Male Violence against Women and Girls Report” and its recommendations. It was commissioned to help the city, including part of my constituency, rebuild following two violent tragedies in 2021. Our belief has always been that our recommendations could form a blueprint for how towns and cities across the country address violence against women and girls. Will the right hon. Lady meet me to discuss how we might work together on this issue?

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member raises an important point. I have talked to Plymouth MPs over many years about the terrible incidents that Plymouth has had to endure, the impact on the community, and the importance of learning lessons to prevent future violence. We will continue to work with Plymouth, and I am sure that the safeguarding Minister will be happy to talk to her further about this. We need to ensure both prevention and a strong and robust response from law enforcement.