Oral Answers to Questions

Phillip Lee Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

2. What progress her Department has made on reforming the youth justice system.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Dr Phillip Lee)]

On 24 February, we announced changes to improve governance of the youth justice system. We are creating a new youth custody service headed by a dedicated, experienced director who will lead on operational delivery, and we have appointed Charlie Taylor as the new chair of the Youth Justice Board.

[Mr Burrowes]

Young people in custody now have more complex needs, and more than three quarters of them have been excluded from school. How will we put high-quality education at the heart of the youth justice system, so that young people can have a second chance of getting the skills they need to break the cycle of reoffending?

[Dr Lee]

My hon. Friend is, as ever, spot on with regards to the importance of education. We are bringing forward plans on secure schools, and we are going to put health and education at the centre of that. I strongly believe that when people leave the youth justice system, they should be fit in body, fit in mind and fit to play a positive part in society.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Has the Minister had a chance to see this morning’s damning report on G4S’s performance at Oakhill training centre? Has he yet made a decision on whether he plans to allow G4S to flog off the centre to an American buyer?

[Dr Lee]

Yes, I have seen the report. In fact, it confirmed what I encountered myself on a recent visit to Oakhill. We are aware of the difficulties there, and we are also aware that G4S is in the process of trying to sell the youth justice arm of its business. I am keeping a close eye on that process, and rule nothing out when it comes to looking after the children and indeed the broader security of society.

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

21. I congratulate the Secretary of State on the appointment of Charlie Taylor as the new chairman of the Youth Justice Board. I warmly welcome the new figures showing that fewer young people than ever are entering the youth justice system in the first place, but reoffending rates remain stubbornly high, especially for those young people sentenced to a period in custody. What more can the Minister do to improve those rates and stop our young people reoffending?

[Dr Lee]

As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes), the Government strongly believe that we need to create an environment in which young people can learn and be rehabilitated, so that they can play a more positive part in society. Our plans for secure schools—one in the north-west of England and one in the south-east of England—will build on that in the future.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Is overcrowding or understaffing the biggest problem in our youth justice system?

[Dr Lee]

No, it is not. [Interruption.] The problem is not overcrowding. There are some issues around staffing, which is why we have brought forward our plans on creating a new role for the youth justice officer. Those individuals are going to be attracted to work specifically with children. We are also developing the youth custody service as part of our plans around Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service, because we believe that there should be a distinct service to deal with children in the criminal justice system.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Youth reoffending rates are among the highest of all prisoners, and we have just heard that reoffending costs this country a total of £15 billion a year. Surely the obvious answer is to make sure that all prisoners serve their time in jail in full before they are released out into the public.

[Dr Lee]

Specifically in the youth justice system, I believe that the most important thing is to ensure that when young people are in custody, we take every opportunity to treat them if they have mental health problems and to provide the necessary education for future employment prospects, so that when they leave the institution, they are less likely to reoffend.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

It has been reported that Working Links, an outsourcing company criticised for its handling of probation services, including for failures in Wales and the south-west, is the company that it is in talks to buy Oakhill secure training centre from G4S. Is it part of the Justice Secretary’s reforms to youth justice to allow private companies with no experience in youth justice to run our youth custody centres?

[Dr Lee]

It is not about ruling out whether private or public organisations should provide care in the youth justice system. I point out to the hon. Gentleman that the original contract for Oakhill was signed in 2005, and the terms of the contract were set then.

[John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

3. What assessment the Government have made of the effect of recent changes in the discount rate for compensation for accident victims on the level of insurance premiums.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

6. What steps she is taking to ensure that prisoners receive appropriate treatment for mental health problems.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Dr Phillip Lee)]

Prisoners are far more likely to suffer from mental health issues than the general population. From April, we will introduce a co-commissioning approach into prisons in England, with governors making decisions about prison healthcare alongside local NHS commissioners. As I am sure the right hon. Gentleman knows, these matters are devolved in Scotland.

[Mr Carmichael]

Indeed, although the Howard League tells us that 2016 was the worst year ever recorded for suicides in prison, with one prisoner every three days across the UK taking his or her life. Does the Minister accept that the earliest diagnosis— and the best diagnosis—will not make much difference if we continue to house prisoners in overcrowded prisons, with the most vulnerable being locked up 23 hours a day?

[Dr Lee]

Each of those cases is a tragedy and my condolences go to the family concerned. The right hon. Gentleman is right that it is important to hold prisoners in appropriate circumstances. We are working hard to improve the mental health training of staff, and we are in lengthy discussions with the Department of Health about the broader provision of mental health care.

[James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

18. What analysis has the Department done on people going into prison with mental health problems, as opposed to acquiring mental health problems in prison?

[Dr Lee]

We are working hard on continuity of care in the transmission of notes from the community into the custodial estate, so that we can improve our pick-up of mental health problems when prisoners arrive. There is ongoing training of staff, so that if mental health symptoms develop within prison they can be spotted and the appropriate care provided.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

When inmates become so acutely unwell that the prison is not equipped to care for them, they should receive appropriate treatment under the Mental Health Acts. In the outside world, this happens within 24 hours; in prisons, the guidelines recommend 14 days. An answer I received to a parliamentary question last year showed that, of 1,141 prisoners, three in four waited more than that two-week window. What action is the Secretary of State taking to rectify this urgent situation?

[Dr Lee]

The hon. Lady is right that access to secure accommodation can be challenging—not only within the prison system but within the community for those who have not committed offences, who cannot always access it within 24 hours. We are in lengthy discussions with the Department of Health on this, because access to secure accommodation in the circumstances the hon. Lady outlines is very important.

[Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)]

Last year, 2016, was the worst recorded for suicide in prisons. The Secretary of State introduced the Prisons and Courts Bill, but it contains nothing to address mental health issues. Why has the Justice Secretary missed this valuable opportunity to enshrine in law the way in which we treat prisoners with mental health problems?

[Dr Lee]

Last year’s prison White Paper contained something on healthcare, giving governors input into the commissioning of services, so that if there is an issue with mental health provision the governor can say so.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

7. What progress has been made on making access to affordable or pro bono legal advice more widely available.

--- Later in debate ---

[Conor McGinn (St Helens North) (Lab)]

There are reports today of children being held in solitary confinement in prisons in this country, which is shocking, immoral and probably unlawful. Surely, the Secretary of State understands that, whatever chance these young people have of turning their lives around, they will not find it if they are locked in a cell for 23 hours a day. Will she commit now to ordering an end to this practice?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Dr Phillip Lee)]

I am aware of the reports from the Howard League. The safety and welfare of young people held in custody is our highest priority. I would stress, though, that these cases are extremely difficult. Some of these young individuals are extremely difficult to manage, and governors on the ground have to make decisions that are in the interests of the broader community in prison and the wider security of society.

[Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

Given the disturbing revelations this morning relating to Facebook and the use of sexualised images of children online, are we doing enough to protect our children, online and offline?