Section 5 of the European Communities (Amendment) Act 1993
Nigel Evans Excerpts(13 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. Three Members are standing; I remind them that the debate must end at 8.43 pm. I call Mr Nuttall.
Amendment of the Law
Nigel Evans Excerpts(13 years, 4 months ago)
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Diana Johnson
Like all hon. Members, I think apprenticeships are an excellent idea. Employers in Hull, however, will tell anyone that the new criteria that have to be fulfilled to take on an apprentice mean that many of the young people cannot get into the workplace. They may be with a training provider, but actually finding an apprenticeship with a business is proving very difficult. I do not know where these 250,000 apprenticeships are going to come from. If the Government can do this, I say “Excellent, we are all supportive,” but to be honest, you are in la-la land—[Interruption.]—or, indeed, in the land of green ginger, which is another very good example.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
When the hon. Lady said “you are in la-la land”, she was, of course, referring to me!
Diana Johnson
I meant no disrespect to you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Of course, I did not mean that.
Let me bring my remarks to a conclusion.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. By convention, there are no time limits on speeches on Budget day, but many Members still want to take part in the debate. Any Member who speaks at excessive length—for more than about eight minutes, that is—will prevent others from contributing. I ask Members please to show some restraint. There will be other opportunities for them to speak during subsequent Budget debates.
Richard Harrington
No, I must make progress.
I normally agree with everything said by my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood), who is not in his place, and one might think that, as a Conservative Member, I would have an overwhelming interest in bureaucracy, labour laws, red tape and obstacles to business and that dealing with those things would be my top priority. However, important though they are, I think that they are secondary to the macro-economic factors—they are secondary to stability and the feeling of confidence. Germany is a classic example of that, because despite its labour laws and the fact that it has lots of regulation, manufacturing industry works well there. So I am very pleased that we are concentrating on the other issues.
I am keeping in mind your earlier comments, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I just wish to remind hon. Members that Watford is an average kind of constituency and so has 3,000 businesses, with eight being roughly the average number of people employed in them—these are predominantly small businesses. I believe that this Budget will help the long-term confidence for them, despite short-term growth forecasts, and so it is a Budget very much for the small business. It is also a Budget for the larger business, given the corporation tax measures. However, more importantly, it is a Budget for ordinary people and for their prospects. I believe that it is the best Budget that we could have, given the mess that the Government were left.
Rachel Reeves
I do agree. Of course, only half the plans were announced today, which was disappointing.
We need an approach to business taxation that fosters growth. Although the Government have trumpeted the cut in corporation tax, it has so far been funded at the expense of investment and manufacturing allowances, so while big businesses have benefited from a tax cut, start-up and investment-intensive firms have seen their taxes rise. If we are to create the jobs of the future, we need today’s entrepreneurs to innovate and that is where the limited funds should be targeted.
We also need greater investment in skills and education. Last year, 8 million people graduated from universities in China and India. No other country is cutting investment in universities, reducing the teaching grant by 80% and cancelling partnerships between business and universities, but that is what the Government are doing.
Last week, we heard that the youth unemployment figure is approaching 1 million and it beggars belief that the future jobs fund is closing its doors in the same month that youth unemployment has risen yet again. One in five young people—more in my constituency—now claims unemployment benefit. Today’s unemployment figures are likely to rise further and today’s Budget is bad news for young people up and down the country.
The public recognise the need for austerity, but they also want to know that the Government have learnt lessons from the crisis and are determined to build a fairer and more sustainable economic future. Britain could be a world leader in the jobs, technologies and industries of the future but only if the Government support growth. Today was the Chancellor’s opportunity to show that he understands the needs of businesses and families, but the OBR’s verdict was to downgrade growth for the third time in 2011 and for next year as well. The Government have ignored the wake-up calls. This Budget is a missed opportunity and I urge the Chancellor and his colleagues to think again about what is really needed to ensure that we emerge from this recession with a stronger, fairer economy for everyone in the country.
Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)
The Government have said that they want enterprise zones to support real growth and long-term sustainability. Does my hon. Friend agree that the announcement of an enterprise zone for Tyneside means little for growth or sustainability when the Transport Secretary has said that he will not provide funding for the much-needed upgrade of the A19 Silverlink interchange, which businesses have told politicians is essential for the economic development of Tyneside and the wider region?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. The interventions are becoming very long. I have said that we are under real time constraints, as Mr Jones knows as well.
Mr Jones
I do know that, Mr Deputy Speaker, but it is important to get these things on the record.
My hon. Friend the Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) makes a good point. The two enterprise zones for the north-east will be in Tyneside and the Tees valley. That important piece of infrastructure is somehow supposed to be funded by the private sector, but that is exactly the kind of public expenditure that should be going into the region to create jobs and regenerate infrastructure. My concern about the enterprise zones is that places such as Durham and Northumberland have been left out. If we look back at the old enterprise zones, we see that all we got from them was a shovelling around of businesses and artificial borders. The zones will make it very difficult to attract inward investment to Durham and Northumberland.
As has been said, page 42 of the Red Book shows that funding for the 22 enterprise zones will add up to about £1 million each over their lifetime, which will not in any way help the regeneration of either Tyneside or Teesside. We will have the talking shops of the local enterprise partnerships, but no real money to do anything. The disastrous situation at the moment is that we have £106 million of European regional development fund but no money for One North East, local authorities or universities to match fund projects. The Government’s regional strategy is in a complete and utter mess, and the Budget will do nothing to assist.
One issue that has already been raised is—
Alison McGovern
I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind; I am conscious that other Members want to speak.
Labour rightly instigated a temporary reduction in the rate of VAT to help us through the downturn, but I am now worried because the Tory-led Government have implemented a permanent hike in the prices that ordinary people in my constituency face in the shops. That is clearly having a huge impact on our economy and threatening future growth, as has been illustrated by the reduction in the growth forecast.
On the increase in commodity prices which has also caused inflation, the Chancellor said in his statement that the UK would seek to have an impact on those prices through the G20. It is therefore incumbent on Ministers to explain how they are going to engage with our international partners to achieve that. There is no doubt that those worldwide events are having an impact on the streets of Bromborough, Bebbington, Heswall and New Ferry in my constituency, and I would like to know what action the Government are going to take in that regard.
I shall deal briefly with young people and employment. I know that Members across the House care about the issue, but we need to bring some words of caution to the debate. The Chancellor rightly reserved extra funds for the future training of apprentices, but money reserved does not equal apprentices hired. Other factors are necessary for getting young people into employment. The first, business confidence, is vital: businesses must have the confidence to invest. I refer hon. Members to what I said about the in-built inflationary expectations in the economy and what they might do to investment. It is a matter of great concern. A second necessary factor is growth, and it is worrying to see growth forecasts revised downwards. The Chancellor might have said that this was a Budget for growth, but I feel that it was all words and very little action. A final necessary factor is a change in culture, whereby businesses feel that it is their role to bring on the next generation. The current generation at work should be allowed to share their skills in the informal setting of the workplace to bring on the next generation.
I highlight, as always, the role of my own local authority. Wirral has shown great leadership in the sphere of encouraging small and medium-sized businesses to take on apprentices. However, the local authority cuts, which have been much greater in our area than in others, have put Wirral’s ability to play this role in jeopardy. The Government need to think about how they will bring about this change of culture in practice rather than simply reserve the funds and say they are there if business wants to take them.
Finally, I fear that Britain is seeing the end of any interventionist role for the Government. I feel strongly that the future jobs fund was an excellent answer to youth unemployment, but the Government have withdrawn from it. They say they are reserving funds for apprentices, but they are doing little more than that to encourage businesses to invest. We are also seeing inflationary pressures on the cost of living, which the Governor of the Bank of England relates to the rise in VAT. This is a price hike that hard-pressed families in Wirral and elsewhere can little afford. On those two issues that I have prioritised, I would like to see Ministers taking much more action.
Richard Fuller
I shall be interested to see how Opposition Members respond to what my hon. Friend has said.
I would subject the Budget to the tests specified by the hon. Member for Barnsley Central: the impact that it will have on the most vulnerable, and what it will do for growth. It is difficult to introduce deficit reduction measures that do not disadvantage the poorest. What the hon. Member for Wirral South said about the impact of rising prices on people who were not receiving increases in their pay packets was absolutely right. I say to Ministers that—not necessarily for the purposes of the current year, but certainly as we look forward to next year and the year after that—we must think very carefully about what we will do for public sector workers who have experienced a pay freeze in at least one year, and in some cases in a number of years. Members on both sides of the House will want to hear a little more about that.
As I said earlier when I intervened on the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), the issue of the mobility component of disability living allowance is also of vital interest to Members in all parts of the House. We must ensure that we protect the most vulnerable people in our care homes. I have met the Minister responsible for the disabled—the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller)—on many occasions, and I know that she shares my passionate interest in that subject.
In the context of protecting the most vulnerable, let me first urge Ministers to continue to give full support to the welfare reform measures that are being pushed through by the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. The universal credit will be of major, long-term, significant and beneficial advantage to low-paid and poor people in our country, and it is a measure that those on the Treasury Bench should support in the years ahead.
Secondly, I should have liked to hear a little more about support for our charities. I was very pleased to hear about the £550 million of support that the Chancellor was offering to them in the form of various benefits, but I should have liked him to be more radical. There are many steps that we can take to ease the rules and regulations and break down some of the barriers that prevent social investment from various sources. We should be a bit more open in relation to the way in which money can flow from social investment to outcomes and social impact bonds. I should have liked to hear about personal tax deductions for charitable donations, and I should very much like the Treasury—either directly or through the big society bank—to help charities to procure local government services. They need that support to arm them in their continuing battles with bureaucracies.
The Budget expresses strong support for those who wish to invest in our small businesses. It strongly supports angel investment and mentoring. Small businesses and entrepreneurs want support from people—from local people who may have started up their own businesses—and we will seek to provide it in Bedford and Kempston. We will seek to bring together successful local business people who can provide financial support through the advantages offered by the Budget in terms of angel investment, and through mentoring to provide guidance and advice so that small businesses can grow.
The Budget challenges us. As many other Members have said, we are about to be tested, and to go through very difficult times. It is important for Members on both sides of the House to argue constructively, but we should also rest on the great creativity and ingenuity of our small business people and entrepreneurs, because they offer the future that will achieve growth in this country.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for exercising time restraint.
Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill [Lords]
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Justine Greening
The hon. Gentleman keeps talking about the deficit as though it was something that descended upon us. The bottom line is that the UK had a structural deficit. That means that his Government were spending more money on public services than was being generated in taxation, even in the good years, so we were never going to be in a position to start paying off any of our debts, which is why the markets got so concerned about continuing to lend to us. That is a structural deficit, and it is a fact, even if the shadow Chancellor will not accept it, and that is why we have to have a deficit reduction plan in place.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. This is a fascinating debate, but not for today. If we could get back to the specifics of the amendments before us, perhaps we could make some progress.
Geraint Davies
I am grateful for your advice, Mr Deputy Speaker, and for the Minister’s intervention. In a way, her intervention makes the case for having growth at the centre of the OBR. I am sure that when she reads her words, which I appreciate were spoken with some emotion and anger, she will wish that she had picked them more carefully.
When we look at the facts and strip out the impact of the international financial crisis, which is about £84 billion in terms of our structural deficit, there was a residual deficit, to which the hon. Lady refers. There was an excess of expenditure over income, but that was taken into account in future planning. There was a savings plan from the previous Chancellor, as she knows, to cut the deficit in half in four years. That was not exclusively reliant on cutting public services and jobs. Rather, it relied on stimulating growth.
The OBR’s estimates of growth have been downgraded. Those higher levels—2.6%—would have provided more fuel to get the deficit down. I recall that the projected deficit in the pre-Budget report was £30 billion less than had been predicted previously. In other words, growth had been occurring faster than was thought. Now it is growing less fast—in fact, it is growing negatively.
Justine Greening
Just on the off-chance, I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman would be able to set out what the £14 billion of cuts were that his party was planning to start in April.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. We are going much wider than the amendments. Could we please confine our comments from now on to the amendments before us?
Geraint Davies
The point I was making before I was distracted was why there should be growth in the OBR. What were the previous Government’s plans to get the deficit down? That is what the hon. Lady asked. It is important to recognise that the plans that we had were largely growth plans, which will now not be taken up. I shall give one simple example.
The Government said, “We’ll cut some expenditure. We’ll cut the regional development agencies.” So there I was, going to speak to UK Trade and Industry which, as Members know, is the marketing operation for Britain abroad, about encouraging inward investment and trade with foreign countries. I was talking to UKTI in Germany, as it happens—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. We seem to be skiing off-piste every time there is an intervention and trying to tempt Mr Davies on to territory that is not relevant to the amendment.
Chris Evans
If I was in the hon. Gentleman’s position, I would be more worried about whether I will have a job in four or five years’ time. That is what most people are concerned about, but they are concerned about what will happen in six month’s time—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. I will tell Members what I am concerned about: no one is talking to the specific amendments before us. If it is at all possible for you, Mr Evans, to mention the amendments now and again, that really would be very useful.
Chris Evans
Thank you for your advice, Mr Deputy Speaker—I have not been here very long.
Getting back to the amendment, it is important that we have the rationale for growth and know how the Government reach their decisions. We cannot talk about this in the microcosm of a dry subject of forecasts. We cannot debate forecasts in this House; we can only debate judgments on how the Government arrive at those policies.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 6, in clause 8, page 3, line 29, at end insert ‘subsequently’.
May I remind the House that by contrast with the amendments in the previous group, which were very narrow, these amendments are very, very, very narrow? I do not want Members to consider that a challenge to see how long they can make a speech on the amendments. May I also remind the House that we have several days ahead of us when we will be able to talk about the economy, growth, jobs, taxation—and they start tomorrow?
Chris Leslie
It is early, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I understand your point about the ticking clock.
Amendment 2 seeks to require the Treasury to place in the Library the costing methods, models and assumptions that underpin all the revenue projections, implications, yield estimates and so forth from each Budget announcement. Hon. Members will know that the Red Book produced at each Budget contains a number of costing projections, and there is always a fantastic table somewhere towards the end of the document which gives a sense of the revenue gains or losses, depending on each tax or public spending measure in the Budget.
In Committee, it became clear that the Office for Budget Responsibility will have the right to gain some insight into the detailed methodologies that the Treasury uses to underpin the assumptions and costings. The methodologies are therefore publishable, because they can be transferred to the OBR, and all that amendment 2 seeks to do is to share them with the wider world, and in particular with Parliament, because if hon. Members are to scrutinise effectively the assumptions on which the Chancellor makes various decisions, the methodologies and costings used to underpin those calculations should be transparent.
In order to support full and proper scrutiny, and to ensure that we can debate those Budget decisions effectively, we think it a reasonable request that the Treasury should place those costings and methodologies in the Library. It would be inconsistent, given the Prime Minister’s protestations about
“a new generation that understands and believes in openness, transparency, accountability”,
for those models not to be in the public domain. We should not have to rely on freedom of information requests to elicit such information from the Treasury; if the OBR has it, so should Parliament. The amendment is very simple, and we should not simply have to have faith to trust the Chancellor’s judgments. If we are to have such transparency, we should all be able to see right through to the methodologies, and perhaps to challenge and test them.
Amendment 6, on a different matter, seeks to ensure that the OBR, when it does publish its reports, gives those changes to Parliament first. If hon. Members look in the Bill, they will see a simple clause that states:
“The Office must—
publish the report,
lay it before Parliament, and
send a copy of it”—
I am not sure whether it is to be sent first class—
“to the Treasury.”
All our amendment seeks to do is to place the word “subsequently” after the words “Parliament, and”. In other words, Parliament should have those reports first and the Treasury should get them subsequently—although I do not particularly mind if it gets them at the same time.
Fuel Prices and the Cost of Living
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. Members will see that this is a popular debate, and there is a six-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches, with the usual injury time for two interventions.
Justine Greening
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The hon. Lady has just made an accusation about what I do or do not know about living in the real world. That goes beyond what I think is a personal comment. She has no understanding of what I do or do not understand. I can assure her that I get on the District line every day to come into work and I know exactly what is going on in the real world. I only wish that the Opposition did.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
That is a point for the debate, not a point for the Chair.
Fiona O’Donnell
Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am obviously going to have to treat the Minister with kid gloves as she is so sensitive.
East Lothian is a largely rural constituency made up of small gatherings of communities that rely heavily on the use of their cars. I suspect that the hundreds of e-mails that I have received over the past few weeks will now be followed by hundreds more, as my constituents will be bitterly disappointed by the Minister’s utterly sterile contribution to the debate.
Nic Dakin
When there were huge economic challenges caused by the great global banking crisis, the Labour Government reduced VAT on fuel and on everything else—they did not put it up and worsen the situation, which is the policy of the parties on the Government Benches.
Let us look at the impact of this tax on growth on people and businesses. Alongside the tax on growth, we have cuts in public services, rising prices, inflation wobbling out of control, cuts to the education maintenance allowance—given to the poorest of our young people so that they can continue and aspire in education—and tuition fees being set at record levels. Unemployment among young people is, on this Prime Minister’s watch, the highest it has been for almost 30 years. That is the Government’s disgraceful economic record.
People on fixed incomes—including pensioners and those on disability living allowance—are hugely worried about the mobility effect of the hike in fuel prices and the difficulties it will make to their lives. Only today, a witness appeared before the Select Committee on Education—David Lawrence, the principal of Easton college in Norfolk—who said, “Higher fuel costs are a disincentive to participation.” That is what is happening in the real world.
Let me quote one letter that I have received this week, which illustrates the sort of correspondence that we all receive from our constituents. It reads:
“I am thirty eight years old, married with a family of six running two small cars to keep the cost down on tax and running costs. The biggest cost that we are finding hard to cover is fuel, since the beginning of last year, average petrol pump prices have risen from just under 111p/litre to almost 128p/litre. Diesel now costs more than 132p/litre, compared to 112.5p a year ago. I would like to explain to you what impact this is having on my ability to drive and go about my everyday life. The price of fuel not only affects work but personally the cost of running my car has significantly increased so that I only can afford to travel to work, any family trips to visit other areas of the region/country I simply just can not afford.
I am employed as a Transport Manager for a local business that relies heavily on local haulage transport companies and also sub-contractors that travel to our region making deliveries. To keep cost down along with trying to keep our CO2 emissions down we use these sub-contractors as back hauliers as a reduced rate. Over the past few months we have seen transport companies we use either going to administration or just closing the business whilst they can pay back the creditors. This has a big impact on the business I work for as we can not be competitive in a tight margin industry we work in.”
That illustrates the difficulties caused in people’s private and working lives by fuel prices getting out of control and their impact on the economy.
In my area, as Government Members who represent Humberside constituencies know, we also have the spectre of the Humber bridge board threatening to put up the cost of Humber bridge tolls—an outrageous suggestion of yet another tax on local people and a tax on local businesses.
Let us look forward at what we can do. There are things we can do and messages about what we can look forward to. I agree with the hon. Member for Devizes that we should be careful not to engage in political posturing. We all, on both sides of the House, do that from time to time—I think she did a little bit, and I probably have, too—but there are practical things we can do. There is no need for the planned fuel duty increase. It should be postponed or stopped completely because of the circumstances that we are in. We can also consider what can be done about VAT. It did not need to go up on everything and there ought to be imagination and resolution in the EU to ensure that VAT is treated properly for people who drive vehicles in this country.
There are things we can do and it is time to do them. It is time to stop talking and time for action.
Royal Assent
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the following Act:
Appropriation Act 2011.
Scotland Bill
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Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP)
I beg to move amendment 37, page 16, line 17, at end insert—
‘(f) Chapter 8 provides for an Order in Council to specify, as an additional devolved tax, a duty charged on fuel’.
The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
Amendment 58, page 16, line 17, at end insert—
‘(c) Chapter 5 provides for an Order in Council to specify, as an additional devolved tax, a tax charged on quarrying or mining,’.
Amendment 59, line 17, at end insert—
‘(d) Chapter 6 provides for an Order in Council to specify, as an additional devolved tax, a tax relating to air travel,’.
Amendment 60, line 17, at end insert—
‘(e) Chapter 7 provides for an Order in Council to specify, as an additional devolved tax, a tax charged on the profits of companies,’.
New clause 8—Duty on fuel
‘In Part 4A (as inserted by section 24), after Chapter 4 insert—
“Chapter 8
Duty on Fuel
80O Duty on fuel
The Secretary of State shall, within one month of the coming into force of section 80B of this Act, lay in accordance with Type A procedure as set out in Schedule 7 to this Act a draft Order in Council which specifies as an additional devolved tax a duty on fuel.”.’.
New clause 15—Scottish tax on quarrying or mining
‘In Part 4A of the 1998 Act (as inserted by section 24), after Chapter 4 (inserted by section 30) insert—
Chapter 5
Tax on quarrying or mining
80L Tax on quarrying or mining
The Secretary of State shall, within one month of the coming into force of section 80B of this Act, lay in accordance with Type A procedure as set out in Schedule 7 to this Act, a draft Order in Council which specifies as an additional devolved tax a tax charged on quarrying or mining.”.’.
New clause 16—Scottish tax on air travel
‘In Part 4A of the 1998 Act (as inserted by section 24), after Chapter 4 (inserted by section 30) insert—
Chapter 6
Tax on air travel
80M Tax on air travel
The Secretary of State shall, within one month of the coming into force of section 80B of this Act, lay in accordance with Type A procedure as set out in Schedule 7 to this Act, a draft Order in Council which specifies as an additional devolved tax a tax charged on air travel.”.’.
New clause 17—Scottish corporation tax
‘In Part 4A of the 1998 Act (as inserted by section 24), after Chapter 4 (inserted by section 30) insert—
Chapter 7
Tax on profits of companies
80N Tax on profits of companies
The Secretary of State shall, within one month of the coming into force of section 80B of this Act, lay in accordance with Type A procedure as set out in Schedule 7 to this Act, a draft Order in Council which specifies as an additional devolved tax a tax charged on the profits of companies.”.’.
Stewart Hosie
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship on this second Committee day, Mr Evans. I look forward to what I hope will be a detailed and constructive debate. Given that a Treasury Minister is present, we may receive some intelligent, enlightening and instructive answers from the Government. I am intrigued to see the Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury, along with the Secretary of State and a junior Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland. Obviously the Government decided to bring in the big guns to do the difficult stuff. I am sure that that will help over the next two days.
There are four taxes that we wish to be devolved: corporation tax, fuel duty, the aggregates levy and air passenger duty. I shall touch on the first two briefly, and say a little more about the aggregates levy and air passenger duty later.
The Bill has been considered by the Committee in the Scottish Parliament. As Ministers know, there was much agreement on many matters, but there was disagreement on a number of others, including corporation tax. I think it useful for this Committee to understand the minority view of the Scottish Committee, which said:
“A major failing of the Scotland Bill is that it does not devolve control over corporation tax, one of the most important economic levers available to a Government pursuing economic growth. In many countries corporation tax has been the key component of a strategy to increase competitiveness and improve growth. Without this power, however, Scotland is missing out on the opportunity to give itself a competitive edge… This situation could soon be worsened by the UK Treasury's consideration of devolving corporation tax to Northern Ireland. The CBI Northern Ireland has stated that cutting corporation tax in Northern Ireland would have a ‘transformational’ impact on the Northern Irish economy—giving an immediate boost to the profits of businesses and generating 90,000 jobs. With control over corporation tax Scotland would be in a position”
to do much the same. The very fact that the United Kingdom Government were taking a similar approach to corporation tax would justify that position, the Committee said.
As Scottish and other Members will know, a significant body of business opinion backs the devolution of corporation tax—
HM Revenue and Customs
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Jesse Norman
I was not aware of that and I thank my hon. Friend for his remark. Of course, historically, Welsh speakers on the other side of the border were very welcome to come to Hereford to have these issues solved, but unfortunately that option does not exist now.
The point is that it is not simply an issue of the cost cutting that has taken place over the past 10 years; the whole model of public service delivery has relocated that service away from local people and back to call centres, as we have heard. That has happened under the influence of a mentality bred by the consulting firms. In particular, one picks out McKinsey, which did a substantial piece of work for HMRC some time ago. This, I am afraid, has been the method by which this mistaken conception of public service delivery has been promulgated. Services, instead of being brought closer to people, have been removed from them. A use of technology that could have assisted the ordinary man and woman and small businesses in dealing with their tax affairs has ended up impeding them, and that has been a terrible and costly shame.
I would direct the current management of HMRC to what systems theory calls “failure demand”. Failure demand is not the cost of delivering a service, but the cost on the rest of the system when people fail to deliver a service. Failure demand in the Revenue has gone through the roof in the last decade, and the statistic we have heard about the length of time people spend on the telephone dealing with Revenue and Customs is a very precise quantification of this increase in failure demand. Essentially, instead of thinking of the costs on the system as a whole, the Revenue has been pushed into pursuing the lowest unit cost, which has encumbered the whole.
There is a parallel in the manufacturing industry. Historically, General Motors ran a production line and if a substandard car was on it, it would be removed from the line and the line was allowed to continue. The result was that these “lemons”, as they were called, built up over time and required a substantial amount of time to fix. However, the system itself never got any better because every time there was a problem, the lemon—the bad car—was removed from the production line. The Toyota approach was entirely different. Every time there was a problem with a car, the entire production line stopped. One can imagine the result: enormous pain for a time, followed by a dramatic improvement in quality and a dramatic fall in costs, because the system was no longer tolerant of failure.
At the moment, for the reasons we have described, HMRC has a system that is massively and very unhappily tolerant of failure. The Government are picking up this mess and will be seeking to make something of it over five years—I hope they will be doing so over 10 years. I encourage them to address not merely the issue of boosting the tax collection rates, but the failed model of public service delivery that underlies the Revenue and so many of our other public services. The Conservative party is committed to improving public services and this is a very good place to start.
Budget Responsibility and National Audit Bill [Lords]
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. I would be grateful if the Minister answered that question in relation to the Bill before the House.
Justine Greening
No doubt my hon. Friend will be encouraged to learn of our belief that our efforts to cut back-office costs and protect front-line services in Whitehall should be replicated in town halls.
Key to understanding progress against the Government’s fiscal mandate are strong, credible, independently conducted official forecasts. Our first goal is to balance the structural current deficit by the end of a rolling five-year forecast period; our second is to see the public sector debt ratio fall at a fixed date in 2015-16. The measures that we set out in the Budget, along with the departmental allocations that we set out in the spending review, constitute a four-year plan to meet that fiscal mandate. We are currently on track to meet the mandate one year early, in 2014-15.
Fuel Costs
Nigel Evans Excerpts(13 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. This has proved to be a popular debate, and nine Members have indicated that they wish to participate in the short space of time that we have left. To be as fair as we possibly can, and to try to get everybody in, we are going to introduce a seven-minute time limit, with the usual injury time for two interventions.
Loans to Ireland Bill
Nigel Evans Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Nadhim Zahawi
Are we the only lender that is lending in a currency other than the euro?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
Order. Because of the popularity of this debate, there will be a seven-minute limit for speeches by Back Benchers. The usual arrangements apply for interventions.
Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Bill [Lords]
Nigel Evans Excerpts(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 6, page 15, line 25, at end insert—
‘( ) A person may not be appointed under subsection (1) unless—
(a) the Secretary of State lays a report before both Houses of Parliament which recommends the person and sets out the process by which he was chosen,
(b) a Minister of the Crown tables a motion in both Houses to approve the report laid under this subsection, and appoint the person, and
(c) such a motion is agreed by a resolution of both Houses of Parliament.’.
Amendment 7, page 15, line 31, leave out ‘send the Treasury a’.
Amendment 8, page 15, line 32, after ‘report’, insert ‘to Parliament’.
Amendment 9, page 15, line 34, leave out subsection (4).
Amendment 10, page 15, line 37, at end add—
‘( ) Appointment under subsection (1) shall be for a non-renewable term of five years.’.
Mr Hanson
We had a good debate on this issue in Committee. It is my contention that if we are to create a post to review the operation of this Bill once it achieves Royal Assent, it makes eminently logical sense for the person who is appointed by the Treasury to review the legislation to be the same person as the one appointed by the Home Office under section 36 of the Terrorism Act 2006 to review terrorist legislation and its impact from the Home Office perspective. As the House will know, Lord Carlile is currently appointed to that position. He is independent of government; he has an office outside the Home Office as well as a secure office in the Home Office; and he provides an independent review of a range of issues, including control orders and other legislation under the 2006 Act. Clause 31 of this Bill allows for an individual to be appointed by the Treasury. In Committee, I tested the Minister on whether he had discussed with the Home Secretary the possibility of appointing the same person under clause 31 to review part 1 of this potential Act as is currently appointed by the Home Office to review legislation under the 2006 Act.
Whatever our agreements in Committee, there is also, I hope, an agreement that we do not want to see duplication of these roles. The role of reviewing whether a designation has been made fairly and is being operated fairly is the same as that of reviewing whether an individual’s control order has been judged and operated fairly. I accept that there are differences, as alluded to by the Minister in Committee, but in broad terms an individual appointed under clause 31 to review part 1 of this potential Act will be dealing with similar issues and similar evidence—sometimes evidence supplied by agencies within government—and undertaking similar assessments of the effectiveness and fairness of the operation of the legislation.
The current reviewer, Lord Carlile, will finish his tenure in that role very shortly. Mr David Anderson QC will be the new independent reviewer of terrorism legislation from, I think, 1 January next year. He has expertise in the European Union, in public law and in human rights. He is a Queen’s counsel of more than 10 years’ standing, and he is a recorder and a visiting professor at King’s college London. The skills that are required to review control orders under the 2006 Act are, in my view, the same as those required to review the provisions in this Bill. I am making this proposal because there could be synergy between the two posts.
I am equally interested—I know that the Minister will have a wry smile at this—in the costings and the operation of the parallel regimes in the event of the Minister appointing somebody different to review the provisions of this Bill when enacted. The Home Office supplies the reviewer with administrative facilities, office support and research support as needed. He has an independent private office in central London as well as secure rooms in the Home Office that he uses to deal with information to help him in his task. I question the need to establish a parallel regime with a separate person being appointed through a separate recruitment procedure and having separate offices inside and outside the Treasury, given that very often, and potentially even more so in this current age, the individual may be reviewing activities that impact on the same small group of people who are seeking to do harm to our citizens in the United Kingdom as a whole.
I would welcome an update from the Minister on my suggestion and on whether he has had an opportunity to talk to the Home Secretary about this matter. Has the Minister had an opportunity to consider whether the person who will be appointed under clause 31 should be the same person who is appointed by the Government to review Home Office legislation under the 2006 Act?
My amendment has been unduly twinned with the rest of the amendments in the group, which were tabled by the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert). They relate to the method for appointing the reviewer—whether they are appointed as under my proposal or as under the Bill. The hon. Gentleman has again drawn on the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights in proposing that the House of Commons should ultimately be the appointing body for the independent reviewer.
Unusually, I think that I will find myself agreeing with the Minister. Whatever my views on a range of issues, I cannot accept amendment 6, because the post of the independent reviewer must ultimately be a Government appointment. It reports to and supplies information to Ministers, and it is ultimately funded by the Government to provide that information. It is crucial, however, that the post is independent of Ministers. It reports to them, provides them with information and is funded by them, but it ultimately acts independently of them. It advises them and can cause difficult issues for them, because of its independence. If the post was appointed and supported by a resolution of both Houses of Parliament, it would be in a very different position from an independent reviewer of legislation.
Lord Carlile was independent. Never once did he ask me for information that he could not access appropriately. Never once was he compromised by Ministers, of whatever hue, in relation to his jurisdiction and duties. He has provided a fair assessment of the operation of the legislation to date.
I hope that the Minister reflects positively on amendment 1. I suspect that he will not support amendments 6 to 10, which were tabled by the hon. Member for Cambridge, because the independence of the post is crucial. If we tie it to the Minister or to the House of Commons, we will betray that independence and do a disservice to the role. If the Minister cannot give me good news on amendment 1, I hope that he can encourage me generally on the appointment. I look forward, also, to hearing the hon. Member for Cambridge speak to his amendments.
Mr Gerry Sutcliffe (Bradford South) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The House was due to have the opportunity to discuss the Lords amendment to the Identity Documents Bill, but I understand that Mr Speaker will not allow that to happen because of the lack of a money resolution. Will we have any opportunity to debate what the Lords have said about the fairness of ensuring that those people who bought identity cards can have some compensation?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point of order, of which he gave me short advance notice. As will become apparent from what I am about to say, the next bit of business will give him his answer.