Pension Schemes Bill

Meg Hillier Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 7th July 2025 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

This Bill aims to deliver fundamental reforms to our pensions landscape, and it is good to see that the prospect of discussing a long, slightly technical pensions Bill has seen so many Members flooding into the Chamber. These are reforms on which there is a broad consensus across the pensions industry. They also build on at least something of a consensus across the House. In its principal focus on higher returns for pension savers, the Bill also responds to specific responsibilities that we hold in the House.

It is because of decisions of Parliament that something significant has happened over the past decade: British workers have got back into the habit of saving for a pension. Today, more than 22 million workers are building up a pension pot. That represents a 10 million increase since 2012, when Parliament introduced the policy of automatically enrolling workers. The rise is largest for women and lower earners. So there is lots to celebrate as more save, but there are no grounds at all for complacency about what they are getting in return.

The private sector final salary pensions that many of today’s pensioners rely on guarantee a particular income in retirement. If those pension schemes do not deliver good investment returns, that is a problem for the employer and not directly for the saver. But most of tomorrow’s retirees with a defined-contribution pension bear all the risk; there is nothing guaranteed. How well the pension scheme that they save into performs matters hugely, and because pensions are a very long game, even small differences in how fast a pension pot grows can make a massive difference over time.

That is the system that the House has chosen, so the onus is on us to ensure that it delivers. But the pension system that we have today is too fragmented, too rarely does it ensure that people’s savings are working hard enough to support them in retirement, and it is too disconnected from the UK economy. That is the case for change and the context for the Bill.

The UK has the second-largest pension system in the world, worth £2 trillion. It is our largest source of domestic capital, underpinning not just the retirement we all look forward—or at least most of us look forward to—but the investment on which our future prosperity depends. But our big pension system has far too few big pension schemes. There are approaching 1,000 defined-contribution schemes and less than 10 providers who currently have £25 billion or more in assets.

A consolidation process is already under way, with the number of DC schemes reducing by about 10% a year. What the Bill does is add wind to the sails of that consolidation. It implements the conclusions of the pensions investment review, creating so-called megafunds. For the DC market, we intend to use the powers provided for in clause 38 to require multi-employer schemes to have at least £25 billion in assets by 2030, or a credible pathway to be there by 2035. Bigger and better pension funds can deliver lower costs, diversified investments and better returns for savers. That supports the work that the industry is already doing to better deliver for savers.

As the House has discussed before, in May, 17 major pension providers managing about 90% of active defined-contribution pensions signed the Mansion House accord. This industry-led initiative saw signatories pledge to invest 10% of their main default funds in private assets such as infrastructure by 2030, with at least 5% in UK assets. That investment could support a better outcome for pension savers and back clean energy developments or fast-growing businesses. To support this industry-led change, the Bill includes a reserve power that would allow the Government to require larger auto-enrolment schemes to invest a set percentage into those wider asset classes. That reflects the reality that the industry has been calling for the shift for some time, but words have been slow to translate into actions.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I draw the House’s attention to the fact that I am a trustee of the parliamentary contributory pension fund. Consolidation is absolutely the right direction of travel so that pension funds have better experts who are better able to advise. I still have a slight concern, though, about mandation. There will have to be schemes to invest in, and they will need to ensure that they are getting returns. How will the Minister ensure that the Bill actively delivers on both sides of the equation?

[Torsten Bell]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question and for her oversight of all our pensions, which I think is reassuring. [Laughter.] Sorry; it is reassuring! I will come directly to her point, because I know that is one question that hon. Members on both sides of the House will want to raise. Let me just say that the Bill explicitly recognises the fiduciary duty of trustees towards their members.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to be here with you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I welcome the Minister to his place. He has been here a couple of days over a year and is already taking an important Bill through Parliament. It is good to see him, and I very much look forward to working constructively with him as the Bill progresses through the House.

While the Bill is not perfect, the Minister will be pleased to hear that there is cross-party consensus on many of the planned changes. That is because we all want our pension system to be working better. If we rewind back to 2010, we inherited from Labour—dare I say it—a private pension system that was not quite ideal. The move from a defined-benefit pension-dominated market to a defined-contribution system had left millions of people behind. Back in 2011, only 42% of people were saving for a workplace pension. The cornerstone of change was auto-enrolment, which has been an overwhelming success, as I am sure the Minister will agree. Now around 88% of eligible employees are saving into a pension, and the remaining 10% who opt out tend to do so because of sound investment advice.

The Conservatives are proud of our rock-solid support in government for our pensioners. The triple lock ensured that we lifted 200,000 pensioners out of absolute poverty over the course of the last Government. Workers deserve dignity in retirement, not just a safety net in old age. They deserve to look forward to their later years with hope, not anxiety, and with choice, not constraint. That is why before the last election, the previous Government had turned their attention to two central issues: first, getting the best value for money out of our pension schemes and, secondly, pensions adequacy. I will come to pensions adequacy later, but let me start by recognising some of the positive measures contained in the Bill to make our pension funds work better for savers.

When Labour gets pensions policy right, it is often by building on the Conservative legacy, recognising what works and seeking to extend it. That is why we broadly support the measures in the Bill that seek to consolidate and strengthen the gains of auto-enrolment. We also welcome the continued progress towards the pensions dashboard, which will revolutionise the way people access their pension information and plan for their financial future.

For too long, the complexity and fragmentation of pension pots has left savers confused and disengaged, as we have heard. If you are anything like me, Madam Deputy Speaker, and are thinking more actively, dare I say it, about your retirement income—actually not like me; you are a lot younger. [Interruption.] Mr Speaker is like me; he is thinking about his pension. He will have spent countless hours trying to track down old pensions. The dashboard, however, will put power back into the hands of savers, and we will support measures in the Bill to improve its implementation and delivery.

I want to highlight the creation of larger megafunds in both the public and private sectors, as well as the consolidation of the local government pension scheme, as sensible and pragmatic steps. The LGPS is one of the largest pension schemes in the UK, as we have heard. It has 6.7 million members with a capital of £391 billion, yet it is highly fragmented into 86 locally administering authorities. There is a great deal of divergence in the funding positions of those councils, even among geographic neighbours. They range from Kensington and Chelsea, which has a scheme funding level of 207%, to neighbouring local authorities like Waltham Forest, Brent, and Havering, which were underfunded in the 2022 triennial review. While we support the concept of these megafunds, there are legitimate questions that I hope the Minister will address in Committee. We do not want to see constituents from one council area unwittingly funding shortfalls from neighbouring areas.

Like many people in this House, I first cut my teeth in politics as a councillor. Soon after being elected, I was appointed chairman of the finance committee on Forest of Dean district council. One of our tasks was to oversee the performance of our local pension fund. Let me assure the House: the Forest of Dean is a truly wonderful place, but it is not the City of London. Our finance committee was made up of dedicated local councillors, but when it came to scrutinising the pension fund, we were—to put it kindly—out of our depth. Meanwhile, the pension fund managers, with their packed diaries and weary expressions, seemed to treat a trip to rural Gloucestershire as a rare expedition to the outer reaches of the Earth.

One thing struck me about small local government pension funds: they simply did not work. But it is not just in local government, small funds are—albeit with some notable exceptions for bespoke funds—not fit for purpose in a global investment environment, as we heard from the Minister. The creation of larger funds will enable greater scale, better investment efficiency and, ultimately, better value for money for members. It will allow our pension funds to compete on the world stage, to invest more in UK infrastructure and to deliver higher returns for British savers.

There are other areas of the Bill that we support and welcome. The consolidation of small, fragmented pension pots is a long-overdue reform. Bringing those together will reduce administrative costs and prevent the erosion of savings through unnecessary fees. The introduction of a value-for-money framework is essential to ensure that savers are getting the best possible deal, not just on charges, but on investment performance and retirement outcomes. We also welcome the development of guided retirement products. We cannot simply leave savers on their own to navigate complex choices at retirement. Changes to provide greater support for those facing terminal illness will provide comfort to those in extremely challenging circumstances. These are all positive steps, and we will work constructively with the Government to ensure they are delivered effectively.

While there is much to welcome, there are also significant areas where the Bill falls short and areas that require attention if we are to deliver a pensions system that is truly fit for the future. Most fundamentally, the Bill does not address pensions adequacy. The uncomfortable truth is that millions of people in this country are simply not saving enough for their retirement. The amounts people are saving, even with auto-enrolment, are too low to deliver a decent standard of living in old age. Research by Pensions UK shows that more than 50% of savers will fail to meet the retirement income targets set by the 2005 pensions commission. Closing the gap between what people are saving and what they will need must be the pressing concern of this Government. We urgently need the second part of the pensions review to be fast-tracked, with a laser-like focus on pensions adequacy. We need a bold, ambitious plan to ensure that every worker in this country can look forward to a retirement free from poverty and insecurity.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

The hon. Gentleman is not wrong on this point. In fact, the Public Accounts Committee looked a number of years ago at enrolment in pension schemes and found that a lot of young people were not enrolling because of the cost of living, which his Government have to take responsibility for. There is no easy answer to this, but I would be interested to know if the Conservative party now have policies to resolve this problem.

[Mark Garnier]

It is an important question, and one that I will come to in due course. Watch this space for a fascinating manifesto in the run-up to the next general election—I am sure everybody looks forward to it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

I want to make three points. First, we recognise that defined-contribution pension schemes have around £500 billion in assets under management. Around 20% of these assets are invested in the UK. That is down from 50% some 10 years ago. It is very welcome that the Government are focusing on this, so that we can ensure that these assets contribute to our growth.

The Committee received evidence in May from the Finance Innovation Lab, which told us that the UK has had the lowest level of business investment in the G7 for 24 of the last 30 years. The fundamental driver behind that is the fact that the financial system, including pension funds, does not support business investment as much as it should. That again emphasises the point that the Bill is very welcome. It should help us deal with that, particularly as it requires multi-employer DC schemes to have £25 billion in assets under management by 2030. That will give more schemes the advantage of economies of scale.

In a very welcome step, in the May 2025 Mansion House accord—I pay tribute to the Chancellor and her team for achieving this—there was a pledge from the 17 schemes that were part of that accord to invest 10% of their portfolios in assets that will boost the economy by 2030, with at least 5% of these portfolios being ring-fenced for the UK. This is expected to release £25 billion to the UK economy by 2030. None the less, the Bill includes a reserve power that the Government could use to mandate DC schemes to invest more in the UK economy. In evidence on 14 July, the Committee heard concerns that that would interfere with the fiduciary duty of trustees to prioritise investments that they judge will bring the best returns for scheme members.

In May, Yvonne Braun of the ABI told the Committee that it does not think the mandation is “desirable”. Instead, she said that the aim should be for it to be

“a rational choice—that the UK is an attractive environment for investing”.

The pensions industry wants the Government to concentrate on enabling the development of suitable assets for schemes to invest in, for example by improving the planning process and making the regulatory environment more predictable.

Rachel Croft, of the Association of Professional Pension Trustees, said:

“Forcing us to invest solely in the UK may run counter to that primary duty and focus, unless there is a pipeline of suitable investments in a format suitable for pension schemes to invest in. If that is the case, we will invest in them; if not, our primary duty will make us look elsewhere.”

Chris Curry, of the Pensions Policy Institute, thought that it was possible to create more UK investment opportunities and benefit members. He said:

“It still has to work in the interest of members—that is important—but if we are removing the barriers and making it easier to invest, and at the same time, providing more of a pipeline for investment and trying to package it so that it works well with how the pension system can operate, you are creating opportunity.”

He described mandation as “blunt” and “inflexible”, and said that it would be difficult to design a scheme that worked effectively in practice and did not give rise to unintended consequences. For example, he said that there would be a challenge in defining what counts as a UK investment. If the Government decided to mandate that schemes invested a particular percentage in the UK, how would the system respond to market movements that might temporarily reduce the percentage below that level? He wanted the Government to consider the unintended consequences of that. The liability-driven episode in September 2022 showed the potential risk of a lot of pension schemes effectively being asked to do the same thing at the same time.

The Bill includes a sunset clause preventing the use of the mandation power beyond 2035. Pensions UK wants to see that timeframe reduce, saying it should be just for the lifetime of the Parliament. It also wants to see the scope limited, so the investment mandation cannot be prescribed beyond the allocations voluntarily committed to in the Mansion House accord, in other words the 10% of default funds into private markets, of which 5% are in UK-based assets.

On fiduciary duties, Jesse Griffiths of the Finance Innovation Lab said that

“while the fiduciary duty should be paramount for the schemes, the Government has a different and broader mandate, and it needs to look at the collective interests of all pension savers as a whole…In particular, when you think about the deep inequality that is embedded in the system, the ONS estimates that the bottom half of the population holds just 1% of all pension assets and the top 10% holds almost two thirds. If you just focus on growing the financial returns, most people will not benefit from that. I would argue that a system that also supports a stronger economy and the green transition would benefit most people more than a system that is focused on higher returns.”

Will the Minister help us to understand the context for the criteria in which mandation powers might be used? What will be the success criteria, other than the 5% investment from this approach? Should the sunset clause, to prevent the use of this mandation power beyond 2035, be brought forward to the end of this Parliament, as I mentioned? Do the Government guarantee that mandations should go no further than the aims of the Mansion House accord?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I share some of my hon. Friend’s concerns about mandation. I am happy that the Minister seems to be listening, and I hope that we will get some answers. I am interested in my hon. Friend’s thoughts about pulling forward the sunset clause. If these changes take place, they will have to happen over a long period of time, as trustees cannot just flip in and out of investments. She has set out the views of her witnesses, but does she have any views on pulling that date forward from 2035? I can see there are arguments both ways, but I am concerned that that might push trustees to make bad decisions.

[Debbie Abrahams]

I understand what my hon. Friend says. There is always a balance to be found with long-term financial decisions, but this is partly a political decision, so I point to the Pensions Minister to come up with a response.

Do the Government propose to consult on the design of the mandation power and how to mitigate against unintended consequences? Do the Government think that there is a case for changing the law on fiduciary duty to make clear that trustees can take account of wider issues, such as the impact of pension scheme investments on the economy and the environment? What would be the pros and cons of doing that?

Briefly, I would like to touch on the LGPS. I slightly disagree with some of the shadow Pensions Minister’s points. Since 2015, the 86 funds have been formed into eight groups. If the Pensions Minister is proposing to reduce that still further, will he set out the reasons behind that? What is the problem that merging them even further is trying to fix? Will he let me know about that in his closing remarks?

Finally, I would like to touch on the pre-1997 indexation, as the Pensions Minister knew that I would. At the end of March 2024, the Pension Protection Fund had a surplus of £13.2 billion. The PPF has taken steps to reduce the levy from £620 million in 2020 to £100 million in 2025. However, under current rules, if it made the decision to reduce the levy to zero, it would then be unable to increase it again. The 2022 departmental review by the Department for Work and Pensions recommended that the PPF and the DWP work together to introduce changes to the levy, so that the PPF would have more flexibility in reducing and increasing the levy level.

There is another issue, which the Pensions Minister will know about. PPF and financial assistance scheme members, particularly those in their later years, are really struggling. I came across a piece—I think it was in The Daily Telegraph—that said that one of the key supporters of the Pension Action Group and a FAS member, Jacquie Humphrey died a few days ago, just 11 weeks after the death of her husband. They were both employed by Dexion, which folded, and, like hundreds of others, refused to leave it there. Is there any comfort that we can provide? I understand and recognise what the Minister says about the PPF surplus being on the public sector’s balance sheet, but given that these people, who are in their 70s and 80s, are unable to live in dignity, what can we do to provide that for them in their later years?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sarah Edwards]

Absolutely. There have been some really interesting changes arising from those countries’ reviews of their pensions markets, and I will be very interested to hear what the Minister has to say about what he has learned from those changes. Certainly, in the meetings that we have attended, we have learned a lot about some of the various initiatives that are driving real growth and real change in those countries.

I urge the Minister to focus on the process of expanding the pipeline of suitable projects, while building on the Chancellor’s success—and, I am sure, his own—in creating a voluntary framework for industry and Government through the Mansion House accord.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

My hon. Friend has referred to good opportunities. I think it was Islington council’s pension scheme that invested in social housing in its area. That gives a good return because, by and large, people pay their rent—it is a steady return over a long period of time. Given the desperate need for housing in this country, does my hon. Friend agree that that would be a real opportunity for these funds as they get bigger?

Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill

Meg Hillier Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 1st July 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is, as has oft been reported this week, the first anniversary of a Labour Government— and have I not been waiting for that for a very long time? It is also the 10th anniversary of the start of my time chairing two Select Committees, first looking in detail at public spending and, for the last year, looking at the Treasury—and what a privilege that has been. I therefore cannot stand here and claim that I did not know that the Labour Government would be inheriting a very difficult financial situation.

Although this matter is not just about money, and should not just be about money, it is a tragedy that too many young people in particular are being pushed into disability benefits. It is a sign of what the Public Accounts Committee would call “cost shunting”— failures in parts of the public sector, where money has been taken away, have seen people pushed into other areas where they could claim the money. Too often, these people are being written off, and I have too many of them in my constituency. I can see the face of one mother who came to my surgery. She was distraught that her two young sons, one of whom is in his early 20s, were in a terrible state and had never been able to work.

A week is a long time in politics, as has famously been said. One week ago, this Bill meant that more than 300,000 people currently receiving personal independence payments were fearful that they would lose them through reassessment. But things have changed since then—I pay tribute to many hon. Friends for that, particularly to many of those who chair Select Committees and to the Government, who have embraced the discussions that we had in good faith. As a result, the Government have agreed to protect existing PIP claimants to make sure that those people are not fearful that they will lose their money and that they can relax and know that they can be secure in their future.

The Government have also ensured that those receiving universal credit and the health top-up are protected in real terms. I pay particular tribute to the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams), for that proposal.

[Melanie Ward (Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy) (Lab)]

Throughout this process, I have focused primarily on the impact of these changes on people with severe disabilities who are unable to work. Originally, the Bill would have made those people worse off, which was unacceptable to me, but the Government’s changes ensure that their income will be genuinely protected in real terms. Does my hon. Friend agree that that change is vital?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I completely agree with my hon. Friend. That was one of the biggest concerns that I had with the Bill. It was also why so many hon. Members stood up and said that they did not want this to go ahead on those terms, and the Government listened.

The Government are also introducing important employment support. That presents a huge opportunity for our local councils and for others that provide that support. I am talking about not just the DWP, but charities that specialise in working with people. I have an example of such work. DWP staff in Hackney have worked with a woman, a victim of domestic violence, who at the age of 49 found herself homeless. They helped her into a flat. She was a parent of three and had not worked since she was 16. They found her work, and after a few weeks she came back to them and said, “I like this 10 hours of work a week. I want more.” Intensively done, these efforts can work. It takes time, which is one reason that we needed to protect current PIP claimants.

The co-production of the Timms review is a groundbreaking change. If the DWP adopts that, does it well and makes it the blueprint for the future, it will put disabled people in the driving seat in shaping benefits, not just now but in the future. That is long overdue and it is one of the biggest changes that came out of the discussions in recent weeks.

We all know that work is a noble endeavour. I will not repeat what others have said about that, but it is good for people and people want to work. Many disabled people in my constituency, and up and down the country, are not supported into work. Whether they are receiving PIP or they become well enough to work and do not need PIP, the dignity of work should be open to all. Too many disabled people are excluded from the workplace, so work support is critical to them.

I welcome the work of the Mayfield review. At a roundtable last week, I met employers and people who are putting people into work, who praised the early findings of the Mayfield review—one of the people there had been involved in it. It is demonstrably good value for employers to support people to stay in work because they keep that experience and knowledge.

I also welcome the right to try and all the other payments and support set out in the Bill. We need to reform the welfare system because it is letting too many people down: too many people moulder on benefits and never have the chance to get off them.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent West) (Lab)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the work that she has put into the changes that have been made to the Bill. She spoke of cost shunting—the way that cuts in one area have forced people to claim in other areas, and those costs have risen. Does she not therefore think that it is important that the Government address those areas where the cuts have been made that forced people out, before we reduce the support for the new claimants that will be coming in?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. Cost shunting can work both ways, so it is vital that the Timms review examines that. If this Government are serious about mission-led government and working across Departments, it is crucial that the Department of Health and Social Care and others are closely involved.

We all know that government is about hard choices—no one said that to govern is easy. However, I say to the Government that it is about not just what they do but how they do it. I trust that over the past week the Government have really learned that. I am blown away by the talent of Members of the House, particularly new colleagues I have met since 2024. There are people sitting on the Benches on both sides of the House who have huge talent and experience. We are not just message replicators or voting fodder—there is talent, knowledge and expertise in this House that the Government would do well to harness. It is easy to get into a bunker mentality and feel like government is hard—I have been a Government Minister; there is lots to do and there is never a minute to oneself—but listening and engaging is vital and makes for better policy.

The privilege of this place is that every centimetre of the United Kingdom is represented by a Member of Parliament, so we have reach, which is a valuable tool for anybody who takes policymaking seriously. Parliament has a vital role and the Government need to engage better with Members of this House, particularly those who work on the Committee corridor. I pay tribute to my fellow Committee Chairs. We have a constitutional role to play to challenge and cajole Government, but we also have a role to inform and shape policy.

We live in a world where we see leadership in some prominent countries by people with whom we do not have the same values. The world is being taken in a direction that I do not want to see, and that is a risk in this country. Under the last Government, we saw how division rent the party now in opposition asunder. I have spent more than half of my 31 years in elected office under Governments led by the Conservatives—that is miserable, frankly, because it means that we did not have the power to shape things in the way that we do when we are in power.

[Mr Adnan Hussain (Blackburn) (Ind)]

The hon. Member talks about the previous Government. Does she agree that politics is about choices? This Government too have chosen cruelty: they came for the elderly, then the children and now the sick and disabled. Who is next?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I am absolutely clear that government is about choices. When a party is in government, it has to make choices to run the country. Some 14 of my 20 years in this place have been served when other parties have been in government, and I have seen Conservative Prime Ministers pass through a revolving door, but I would always rather see a Labour Government. Divided parties do not hold power or government. If we want to see our values played out in this country, we need to vote for the Bill today.

There is still a lot to do, a lot of discussion to be had and the Timms review to take place, but major changes were made last week that have significantly altered the Bill in a short space of time. We should bank that and continue to fight, with the passion that hon. Members have demonstrated today, for the rights of disabled people and all of those who want a job, whether they are disabled or not, and need support to get into work.

Welfare Reform

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Monday 30th June 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I absolutely believe that we have to reset the system. We have to make sure that everybody who can work gets the opportunity to do so and the support they need. That is precisely what we are trying to do with these plans. I gently say to the right hon. Gentleman, who I admire, that it is precisely that failure and that mess that we are now trying to tackle.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Secretary of State for the movement made in the last week. It would have been good to have had those conversations earlier, but we are where we are. In response to the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, my right hon. Friend spoke about the November deadline and the four points kicking in. Will she explain to the House the rationale for settling on those four points in one category prior to the Timms review?

Mansion House Accord

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Tuesday 13th May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Select Committee.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests as a trustee of the parliamentary contributory pension fund. The points about fiduciary duty have been made. Given that fund managers will need time to pool together funds that reflect the Government’s wishes and the voluntary accord, when does the Minister expect it to kick in? At that point, might he consider mandation?

[Torsten Bell]

The decision by the industry, reflecting the question that the Chair of the Select Committee raises about pace of change, is that the targets for asset allocation are for 2030.

PIP Changes: Impact on Carer’s Allowance

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Thursday 27th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I suppose the hon. Gentleman has no choice but to attempt to defend his party’s record in government. As I have referred to already, the Conservative party’s plan was to convert PIP into vouchers—that really frightened people who were dependent on that system—and they also wanted to make some big cuts to the work capability assessment, which were ruled out by the courts as unlawful. We announced in the Green Paper that we are going to abandon those cuts. For example, the Conservatives were proposing to remove the mobility descriptor from the work capability assessment on the grounds that people can now work from home, but it is clearly ludicrous to claim that a mobility impairment does not affect a person’s ability to work. I remind the hon. Gentleman that in responding to the Green Paper on behalf of the Opposition, his hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately) demanded further cuts, so the outrage he has expressed is a bit inappropriate.

We have a proper plan, set out in the Green Paper. It has been well thought through—as the hon. Gentleman will find if he reads it properly—including a reference to unpaid carers on its very last page. We are well aware of the impact it will have, which is why we are consulting on the transitional arrangements.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank my right hon. Friend for coming before the House and calmly laying out some of the facts on this matter, as I would expect from him, given his experience. However, there has been a lot of fear out there, and confusion among MPs, advisers and—most worryingly—people who are in receipt of PIP and other benefits and are affected by these changes. Does my right hon. Friend agree that clear communications at all times about this matter are very important, and that every Minister should be very careful about clumsy and inappropriate language, because of the impact it has on the people who are most affected?

[Sir Stephen Timms]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the sensitivity of this issue. I particularly regret the anxiety that has been caused by press speculation over the past several weeks—that has certainly been regrettable. From my postbag, the thing that particularly frightened people was the point I have already referred to, which was the previous Government’s proposal to switch PIP from a cash benefit to vouchers. That caused a great deal of concern, but my hon. Friend is right: we now need to be absolutely clear in our communication about these matters. I think the Green Paper is clear. The accessible versions of the Green Paper will all be published by the beginning of next month, and we will then have a 12-week consultation period. As a result of those versions, including the easy-read version, being available, I hope that everybody will be able to see clearly what is proposed and will be able to respond to the consultation with their views.

Welfare Reform

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Tuesday 18th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that we need extra investment in the NHS and to overhaul the culture of the DWP, and that is precisely what we are doing. We are investing an additional £26 billion into the NHS, an extra £172 million into the disabled facilities grant to help disabled people to live independently, and £3.7 billion into social care, which is such an important issue.

We need a decisive cultural shift in the DWP. That is why our Get Britain Working plans include proposals to overhaul jobcentres. We have also said today that we need to look fundamentally at our safeguarding approach. Our Pathways to Work programme is genuinely just that. For some people, getting out of the house is an achievement; for others, it is maybe going along to a community group, doing voluntary action or getting skills. That is what we mean, and we will work closely not only with the NHS and social care—and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care—but with voluntary organisations, which have such a vital role in helping people on to a pathway to success.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s commitment to ensuring that no one is on the scrapheap when it comes to work and that everyone gets the support that they need. I note that she is consulting on delaying access to the health top-up in universal credit until the age of 22. Will she explain the rationale for that age, and what savings does she expect to make if that consultation goes forward?

[Liz Kendall]

My hon. Friend raises a really important issue. Patience is not my greatest virtue, but Members will need to wait until the spring statement for the OBR’s full assessment of individual measures and the savings they make. On delaying access to the health top-up for people under 22, there will be a specific exemption for those who are never able to work because their disability is so severe. This is all about matching it with our youth guarantee, announced in the Get Britain Working plan, to make sure every young person is earning or learning. If someone is not in education, employment or training when they are young, the impact can be lifelong and scarring on their health, job prospects and earnings, so we have to put that right.

Oral Answers to Questions

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Monday 17th March 2025 Commons Chamber

[Alison McGovern]

The Health Secretary and I talked about child poverty many times as we sat on the Opposition Benches watching the situation for our kids get worse and worse every year. The Member makes a very serious and important point about the wide-ranging consequences of poverty and, if I may, I would encourage him to submit the evidence he mentioned to the child poverty taskforce so that we can take full account of it.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

One in two children in my constituency live in poverty. There is a lot of speculation swirling around the excellent child poverty taskforce, which I applaud the Government for establishing, including that the cap could be lifted for under-fives, which would affect fewer than 20,000 households compared with the 440,000 households which currently are affected by the two-child benefit cap. Can the Minister reassure the House and the country that the child poverty taskforce is looking to support all children in poverty, whatever decisions it comes up with, and not just a small segment of them?

Oral Answers to Questions

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Final question, Dame Meg Hillier.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I applaud the Front-Bench team for its energy in driving the child poverty taskforce, but every decision has consequences and costs. Will the Minister outline the costs of some of the processes she is looking at changing, particularly the cost of lifting the two-child cap, and if she does not have the figure to hand will she write to me?

[Alison McGovern]

I thank my hon. Friend the Chair of the Treasury Committee for all her work on this issue. I will happily engage with her through correspondence on the matter.

Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill

Meg Hillier Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 3rd February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I will set this out first. The Bill will provide the authority with new powers to obtain search warrants, to enter premises and seize evidence as part of fraud investigations, to compel businesses and individuals to provide information where there is a suspicion of fraud, and to enable it to better detect and prevent payments made as a result of fraud or error. It will also bring in new debt recovery powers, so that we can get public money back for taxpayers, and new financial penalties that the PSFA can use as an alternative to often lengthy criminal prosecutions.

What happened during the pandemic was completely unacceptable, with billions of pounds squandered by the Conservatives on dodgy deals with their covid cronies. This Bill will help us to get that money back. It will double from six to 12 years the time limit for civil claims to be brought in alleged cases of covid fraud, giving the PSFA and our new covid counter-fraud commissioner more time to investigate complex cases relating to those who exploited a national emergency for personal profit.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have spent more than a decade studying fraud and error in the DWP. The Secretary of State is right that levels of fraud have been intransigently high, but my concern is about where there are errors. Quite often, they are made by the Department. My constituent received a £5,000 overpayment. Will the Secretary of State make it clear to the House that people in that situation will not have money taken out of their bank account, and that they will be treated properly if there is a small error on their side or a big error by the Department?

[Liz Kendall]

I will come on to that point in a moment, but I have the utmost respect for my hon. Friend. In fact, I think that the measures in the Bill will help us to spot such errors and prevent them from happening in the first place. People make genuine mistakes. We do not want them to build up errors and build up debt that they have to repay. I think that the Bill is part of solving that problem. I will say more about that in a moment.

I turn to fraud and error specifically in our welfare system. The Bill will modernise and extend the DWP’s anti-fraud powers, bringing it into line with other bodies such as His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, so that we can use technology and data to find and prevent fraud more quickly and effectively; so that our serious and organised counter-fraud investigators have the powers they need to search premises and seize evidence, including from criminal gangs, and bring offenders to justice; and so that we can ensure that when people owe us money and, crucially, when they can pay, we get that money back for taxpayers. That all comes with strong and new safeguards and with independent oversight on the face of the Bill, as I will set out in detail.

Oral Answers to Questions

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Emma Reynolds]

The ombudsman took six years to look into what is a serious, significant and complex set of cases. We need time to look at that seriously, and we are doing precisely that.

[Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

9. What steps she is taking to support vulnerable people into work.

[The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)]

We are committed to supporting vulnerable customers into work. At jobcentres, for example, we can identify the support needed and signpost people to courses or organisations to help them overcome barriers. We will be saying more about our proposals in the forthcoming employment White Paper.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

In my local jobcentre on Mare Street in my constituency, there is an extremely good team of DWP staff who work closely with vulnerable constituents to help them overcome the hurdles to getting benefits and getting into work. However, for people with fluctuating conditions, and particularly mental health conditions, there are many barriers both for them and for prospective employers. I wonder whether the Minister could give us a taster of what might be in the White Paper in terms of support for employers in particular to encourage them to take on people with such challenges.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I very much welcome my hon. Friend’s positive report of the work in her local jobcentre. She highlights a major challenge behind a significant proportion of increased inactivity over the past few years. We will set out our response in the “Getting Britain Working” White Paper, but we are already providing tailored support in partnership with NHS talking therapies and individual placement and support in primary care. My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there is a good deal more to be done.