Oral Answers to Questions

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Thursday 22nd May 2025 Commons Chamber

[Steve Race (Exeter) (Lab)]

1. What steps the Church is taking to roll out stand-alone services to bless same-sex couples.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

A proposal to enable churches to opt in to the use of prayers of love and faith in stand-alone services is out for consultation and will come back to the House of Bishops in October.

[Steve Race]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the next Archbishop of Canterbury should be someone who can show leadership on this issue, both for congregants and clergy who would want to participate in such a service, and ensure that the Church of England finally treats LGBT Anglicans in Exeter and beyond equally within the church?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I am sure my hon. Friend will understand why I cannot comment on who the next Archbishop should be. The process is well under way, and I am sure that hon. Members will join me in holding them in prayer as they go about this important work. This issue affects many people, and people have deep feelings about it. If the House of Bishops approves the proposals to enable prayers of love and faith in stand-alone services, the business committee of the General Synod could timetable this issue for a debate in February 2026.

[Mary Glindon (Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend) (Lab)]

2. What support the Church of England is providing to Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

4. What support the Church of England is providing to Christians in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

[Marsha De Cordova]

In October 2023, the Archbishops of Jerusalem and Canterbury launched an emergency appeal for the diocese of Jerusalem, and it receives donations from international partners, including the UK. The fund supports people throughout the Holy Land and has supported medical services for vulnerable out-patients in al-Ahli hospital in Gaza, St Luke’s hospital in Nablus and the Penman clinic in Jenin.

[Mary Glindon]

Thousands of Palestinians, including children, are detained by the Israeli military. Reports of mistreatment and torture date back to UNICEF’s 2013 report on children in Israeli military detention. Last year, the UN special rapporteurs highlighted the escalating use of torture against Palestinian detainees with people raped, electrocuted, waterboarded, suspended from ceilings, tied to beds, blindfolded and made to wear nappies. What can the Church do to help end this appalling cruelty?

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Church unequivocally condemns all forms of violence and torture, and I know I speak for many when I say impunity for abuse against Palestinian detainees must end. But there is a hard limit on what the Church can do while the Israeli military continues to oppress Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza. We need an end to the occupation, a return of all Israeli hostages and Palestinian detainees without charge, an immediate ceasefire and all essential aid allowed into Gaza.

[James Asser]

We have seen increasing settler violence in the west bank, and Palestinian Christians were restricted and prevented from worshipping over Easter. I ask my hon. Friend to use her good offices to encourage the Church of England to do all it can, including working with other Churches and across faiths to protect the rights of the Palestinian people and ensure freedom of worship across all faiths in the face of increased harassment and violence.

[Marsha De Cordova]

We can all agree that the mass atrocities in Gaza and the attacks on civilians in the west bank have been repeatedly raised at Church Commissioner questions—indeed, by my hon. Friend on previous occasions. I have written to my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary on this issue. I can assure my hon. Friend that bishops of the Church of England have regularly visited Palestine to hear from Christians on the ground, but it is clear that to see an end to military and settler attacks on Palestinian worshippers, we need to see an end to occupation. The Church was deeply concerned that worshippers were restricted from worshipping during the Easter period.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Father of the House.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

This week I met Rana Musa of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate. Under the traditional status quo, the Israeli authorities levied arnona—the property tax—only on Church-owned business properties, but they are now levying it on Church properties used for religious purposes. That is an existential crisis for the Christian churches in Jerusalem. It is part of a pattern of intolerable pressure that has resulted in a reduction of the Christian population in the west bank to just 45,000 people. That must stop. I beg the Church of England, the Catholic Church, all Christians in this country and everybody else to shout at the top of their voices that Christians in the Holy Land deserve to be treated with respect.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank the Father of the House for his question. He makes a truly important point: everybody should have the freedom to worship and nobody should be allowed to prevent that with impunity. As he rightly says, it is up to us—the Church of England, the Catholic Church and all people of faith—to use our voices for the voiceless. People should not be prevented from worshipping.

[Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)]

Open Doors reported earlier this year that about three quarters of houses belonging to Christians in Gaza have been damaged or totally destroyed. Given that that is true for people of all faiths in Gaza, does the hon. Lady accept that it is incumbent on the Church, the Government and all of us to support them?

[Marsha De Cordova]

The hon. Member raises another crucial point. This is not just for the Church; everybody has a responsibility to support the efforts to bring about a ceasefire and peace in the region and to allow aid in unimpeded. As we all know, aid has been prevented from getting into Gaza. We need it to be allowed in.

The hon. Member for Arbroath and Broughty Ferry, representing the Speaker’s Committee on the Electoral Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Jas Athwal (Ilford South) (Lab)]

5. What steps the Church is taking to help increase interfaith cohesion.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

The Church is a presence in every constituency across the country, working alongside all faiths. Interfaith advisers work closely with local faith leaders, local authorities and other public bodies to foster better relations and understanding of different faith communities. Many churches, including in my Battersea constituency, take part in an annual interfaith peace walk and other events.

[Jas Athwal]

I thank my hon. Friend for the work she is doing representing the Church Commissioners on this matter. Ilford South is one of the most diverse constituencies in the country. In central Ilford we have a mosque, a mandir, a church and a gurdwara just down the road. Our faith groups build community resilience and exemplify the very best of humanity—they are our bedrock. Will my hon. Friend join me in celebrating the diversity of our faith groups in Ilford South, and what conversations she has had with the Church Commissioners on how the Church continues to strengthen this interfaith work?

[Marsha De Cordova]

It is a pleasure to congratulate the work of faith groups in my hon. Friend’s constituency, where there are good examples of different faith organisations coming together. The Archdeacon of West Ham informs me that local churches are closely engaged with the London Boroughs Faiths Network, and local clergy work alongside local rabbis and imams to build closer links. The local faith forum is hosting a walk of peace in my hon. Friend’s constituency on 1 June, and I hope he will be able to take part.

[Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)]

Interfaith work is vital to our local communities up and down the country. Does the hon. Lady agree that leadership is important and that if the Church of England were to follow the Roman Catholic Church and appoint its leader in days rather than months, it would give a great boost to interfaith work?

[Mr Speaker]

Marsha, chair the conclave! [Laughter.]

[Marsha De Cordova]

If only, Mr Speaker—though I do have the right colours on this morning.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge) (Con)]

The Cardinal for Battersea.

[Marsha De Cordova]

Oh my goodness! The hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) makes a really important point about the importance of interfaith working, and it happens at all levels—we have our local clergy but also faith leaders and advisers working across all different faiths to bring us together. What happened last summer during the riots was a good example of how interfaith leaders work together.

[Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

6. What progress the National Church Institutions have made on improving safeguarding.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend for continuing to rightly hold the Church to account on this issue. As he knows, in February the General Synod voted to adopt a partially independent safeguarding model that includes an external scrutiny body and a commitment to carry out further work to identify the legal and practical challenges of moving towards a fully independent safeguarding model.

[Luke Myer]

Next month I will meet the Safeguarding Minister alongside my constituent and a group of survivors of abuse and safeguarding failure within the Church. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Marsha De Cordova) for the work she has been doing to push the case for fully independent safeguarding processes. Will she continue to impress upon colleagues the need for full independence in terms of operations and oversight within the Church?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I reiterate that it is really important that Members, including my hon. Friend, continue to raise this issue and hold the Church to account. The Church is undertaking detailed work to look towards seeking to go with a fully independent model. In the meantime, the Church is getting on with setting up the external scrutiny body, which is likely to be on a statutory basis, in order to give it depth and may require legislation. As I have said on many occasions in Church Commissioners questions, it is so important that the Church seeks to restore and rebuild trust, and that begins with ensuring that we have a credible model for safeguarding.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Second Church Estates Commissioner for her response. The churches should always be a place for those who seek help, assistance, support and comfort whenever things have happened that are completely against the teachings of the Bible. For those who carry out these heinous crimes, there must be no excuses and no apologies; they must go to court to face the allegations that are made against them, and then when the crimes are proven, they must be sent to jail. The Church’s foundation is God and the teachings of the Bible. Those who carry out those crimes deserve absolutely no help within the Church whatsoever.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Justice must be served regardless of the institution a crime is committed in.

[Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)]

7. What steps the Church Commissioners are taking to ensure value for money for leaseholders.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The Church Commissioners property team regularly meets and engages with residents associations, as part of its programme of support for its tenants, to ensure best value for money for leaseholders.

[Rachel Blake]

I thank my hon. Friend for the time she spent with me and my constituents of the Hyde Park estate to discuss tackling some of the high service charges they are facing. Does she agree that it is vital that the Government continue to make progress on the regulation of managing agents so that these high costs are clamped down on and there is more accountability for leaseholders?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I commend my hon. Friend for all the work she is doing on this important issue, which affects many constituencies, and it was a pleasure to meet her and members of that residents association. We all know that many managing agents behave in ways that are not fit for purpose. It is absolutely right that we need legislation to deal with unscrupulous managing agents, because things cannot continue in the current vein. I thank her for all the work she is doing.

[Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD)]

8. What assessment the Church has made of the potential merits of implementing an independent safeguarding process.

[Marsha De Cordova]

At the General Synod in February, I called for a fully independent model for safeguarding. Synod did not adopt that approach but did commit to undertaking some detailed work that would ensure it could work towards that sort of model. As I said earlier in my responses, it is vital that the Church seeks to begin to restore and rebuild trust and confidence in it.

[Wera Hobhouse]

I thank the hon. Lady for that answer. Horribly and tragically, one of my constituents was a victim of abuse in the Church of England. We must never forget that there are victims and survivors involved here, and they were dismayed when earlier this year the Church of England’s governing body rejected a fully independent safeguarding model to deal with abuse cases. The Church should not fall behind other organisations on safeguarding. The hon. Lady has given me her answer already, but can she reassure me that she will continue to push for a fully independent body, as that must be our goal?

[Marsha De Cordova]

Absolutely. I was at that meeting of Synod and it was disappointing that my preferred model of full independence was not adopted. We owe it to those like the hon. Lady’s constituent, who was a victim and is now a survivor, to ensure that the Church works at pace towards a fully independent model for safeguarding.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent and Rhymney, representing the House of Commons Commission, was asked—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

10. Whether the commissioners have made an estimate of the proportion of the Church’s assets that may have a link to historical involvement with slavery.

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

The forensic accounting research published in 2023 revealed that Queen Anne’s Bounty was linked with African chattel enslavement in two main ways: significant investments in the South Sea Company; and benefactions received from individuals whose income may have derived from slavery. The fund for healing, repair and justice is the Church Commissioners’ response to these findings.

[Ms Abbott]

My hon. Friend will be aware that there is a lot of interest in the relationship between the Church and the slave trade. Is she able to say over what period the Church made profits from the slave trade? Is she able to specify the names of the companies that the Church invested in, or even the names of the slave plantations? Is she able to quantify exactly how much money the Church made over the period when it was involved in the slave trade? And is she able to say whether the Church’s profit from the slave trade is still part of its income today?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank the Mother of the House for the seven or eight questions that she has asked—she will forgive me if I write to her in response to many of those points. To reiterate, the Church received benefaction from individuals who profited from enslavement and invested in the South Sea Company, which was deeply linked with the slave trade. The Church Commissioners have been investigating the Church’s historical links in this area since 2019, and published a full and transparent report in January 2023. I am happy for that document to be shared with my right hon. Friend and it can be placed in the House of Commons Library, if that is helpful. I will write to her, but I am also very happy to meet her, because she shows a keen interest in this area.