Oral Answers to Questions

Marsha De Cordova Excerpts

Thursday 28th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Second Church Estates Commissioner (Marsha De Cordova)]

Churches nationwide provide chaplaincy and grief counselling services to hospices, patients and their families. Many modern hospices started off as Church-affiliated institutions thanks to the pioneering work of Dame Cicely Saunders. They are largely now affiliated to Hospice UK, which supports over 200 hospices across the UK, including the Royal Trinity hospice, near my constituency of Battersea. Only a third of adult hospices in the UK receive funding from the state. The rest rely on charitable support, and there is considerable concern that the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill may divert much-needed funds from frontline care.

[Rachael Maskell]

Hospices have charitable aims to provide palliative care at the end of life, but these could be compromised by the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill, which comes before the House tomorrow. What consultation and impact assessment of this measure has there been with hospices that have a faith foundation? I am hearing that some hospices need an exemption, or they might close.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I do not believe there has been consultation with any faith-connected organisations, and I do not believe that an impact assessment has been carried out. However, Hospice UK, the body to which most Church-associated hospices are affiliated, has surveyed providers, staff and practitioners, who have expressed concerns about the Bill’s implementation. They are concerned about the following: who will qualify; the impact on those working in hospices, palliative care and end of life care; the ability of providers and staff to opt out; the practical operation of a conscience clause; the financial impact on the future funding of hospices; and the lack of public awareness of end of life care and the available choices.

[Paulette Hamilton]

Can my hon. Friend confirm whether Church-owned hospices will work with independent hospices and other organisations to mitigate the potential impact of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill, and to issue a statement from across the sector?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question on this incredibly important issue. I refer her to my previous answers, but it is also worth highlighting that, in recent years, the General Synod of the Church of England has twice voted by large majorities against changing the law on assisted suicide. The Association for Palliative Medicine and Hospice UK, to which most chaplains and Church-owned hospices are affiliated, remain opposed to any change in the law. The sector is particularly concerned about the funding challenges such a change would bring, as was highlighted in a Select Committee report. The report showed that funding for palliative care services fell by almost 5% in countries such as the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg, where legalised assisted dying is in place, compared with a 25% increase in countries where it has not been legalised.

[Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)]

Does the Church Commissioner agree that hospices are about comforting the dying and surrounding them with care? Is that not the very antithesis of the state involving itself in sanctioning and assisting suicide?

[Marsha De Cordova]

If we think back to the founder of hospice care, it was founded on the principles of faith and Jesus Christ. It is only right that those principles of care and compassion ring true in ensuring that hospice care is there for those who need it.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The very ethos of Church-owned hospices is the sanctity of life, on which the Bible is very clear. Church-owned hospices will reflect that in what they do. Does the Church Commissioner share my concern about the potential conflict that could arise between Church-owned hospices and this House following the outcome of tomorrow’s debate on the assisted dying Bill? Does she share my concern about the sanctity of life and agree with me about the importance of making sure that we keep people alive?

[Marsha De Cordova]

Hospices and palliative care play an important role in end of life care. I believe that we need to fund those services properly before we consider moving towards legislating for assisted dying.

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

2. What steps the Church is taking to preserve historic places of worship.

[Rosie Wrighting (Kettering) (Lab)]

4. What progress the Church Commissioners have made on reducing the backlog of works to restore parish churches and cathedrals.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The national Church institutions have invested £11 million in the Buildings for Mission fund, which provides money for repairs, specialist advice and grants to parishes of up to £12,000 for small-scale urgent work. Buildings for Mission can also be used to pay for essential improvements to church missions and ministries, such disability access, toilets or even a community kitchen.

[Bradley Thomas]

My constituency is home to many historic churches that continue to be much loved by their communities. They include St John’s church in Bromsgrove, which dates from 12th century but was predominantly constructed in the 14th and 15th centuries. The church has had to raise many hundreds of thousands of pounds for the upkeep and maintenance of its spire. Key to that is the listed places of worship grant scheme. What conversations have taken place between the Government and the Church regarding the preservation of that scheme?

[Marsha De Cordova]

St John’s church in Bromsgrove is a perfect example because, having raised the funds, it is preparing to undertake urgent work to its spire, with an anticipated project cost of roughly £452,000, but it could reclaim around £90,000 through the listed places of worship grant. As the hon. Gentleman probably knows, the scheme has paid out £317 million since it was introduced in 2001 by the former Prime Minister Gordon Brown, and has assisted over 13,000 places. The scheme currently receives around 7,000 applications per annum and has a budget of £42 million. The Department for Culture, Media and Sport has assessed the scheme on numerous occasions. It delivers the fairest possible system of making grants.

[Rosie Wrighting]

St Andrew’s parish church and Holy Trinity church in my constituency are both listed buildings that provide vital community services. The former is saving for a heat pump and the latter for a new roof. They were hoping to use the listed places of worship grant scheme to undertake the work, but because the scheme is due to expire next year, their future is uncertain. Will my hon. Friend join me in thanking the many churches across the UK and Kettering for the work that they do to serve our communities? What plans are there for the future of the scheme?

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend is a strong advocate for the churches in her constituency. I am pleased to hear her mention that St Andrew’s church is upgrading its heating system; hopefully, it will benefit from some funding from the listed places of worship grant scheme. As I am sure will be said again in this question session, the scheme makes a huge difference to churches. Many have to do a lot of fundraising in their communities, but being able to rely on the scheme helps to cover some of the costs.

[Katie Lam (Weald of Kent) (Con)]

3. What steps the Church is taking to mitigate the impact of the potential withdrawal of the listed places of worship grant scheme in March 2025.

[Blake Stephenson (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)]

6. What recent discussions the Church has had with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on whether the listed places of worship grant scheme will continue after March 2025.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The listed places of worship grant scheme, which is clearly dominating questions today, enables VAT to be refunded for repairs to our oldest and most precious churches and religious buildings. Without access to the scheme, parishes will find it harder to fund essential repairs, and they will have to spend more time on fundraising and less time on the needs of their local communities. I understand that the Bishop of Bristol and the National Churches Trust have written to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to ask for a meeting. I hope that my right hon. Friend will meet them in the near future, as time is of the essence.

[Katie Lam]

In rural areas like the Weald of Kent, our churches are vital public buildings, providing somewhere not just for the spiritual life of our villages and towns, but for their civic life. Given the impending withdrawal of the listed places of worship grant scheme, what is being done to support churches like St Mildred’s in Tenterden? It plays a vital role in the town, especially now that the town hall is closed for refurbishment, and it relies on the scheme to make essential repairs. The hon. Lady has spoken about the importance of the scheme, but will it be extended?

[Marsha De Cordova]

As the hon. Lady will agree, I am not the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, so I cannot give her a decision on that. However, she rightly highlights the vital role that churches play as a cornerstone of all our communities, up and down the country, alongside their role of providing community and spiritual leadership. Like her, I hope that the scheme will continue. I congratulate her and her colleagues on writing to the Secretary of State, and I hope they will get a response in the near future.

[Blake Stephenson]

On Bedfordshire Day, I want to put on record my appreciation for everyone who works so hard in our county to make it such a wonderful place. That includes constituents who are passionate about preserving St Botolph’s church in Aspley Guise. They are working hard to raise tens of thousands of pounds for their tower restoration project and expect work to start early next year. However, they are concerned that without the listed places of worship grant scheme, works will become much more expensive and may not be able to proceed. Will the Church Commissioner meet me to discuss how we can continue to support historic churches such as St Botolph’s?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I join the hon. Gentleman in congratulating all those who work in our communities and churches. I will be delighted to meet him to see what assistance can be provided for the parish. I understand that St Botolph’s has a target of £175,000 for extensive repairs to the tower. It has already secured £141,000 in donations from the local community and is awaiting decisions on a number of grants. I congratulate the whole congregation and the community on their fundraising efforts to reach that huge figure. The hon. Gentleman makes a good point and shares a good example of why the scheme is so important.

[Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)]

5. What steps the Church is taking to support people that are housebound due to a disability.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

7. What steps the Church is taking to support people that are housebound due to a disability.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I welcome the timely questions from my hon. Friends as we are in the middle of Disability History Month. The Church has started a project to support local parishes to adapt their buildings to make our churches more accessible. It includes standardising signage to make accessibility obvious, training for church leaders and staff, and a grant scheme for adaptations. The Church also continues to develop worship and educational resources, which are available nationally to people who are housebound and their carers.

[Anna Dixon]

In the report of the archbishops’ commission on reimagining care, which I chaired, we recognise the important role of churches and faith communities in supporting older and disabled people. The report asked the Church of England to consider developing resources and capacity in local churches

“to adopt an asset-based approach to engaging with disabled people and older people in their communities.”

Can my hon. Friend update the House on what action the Church is taking to fulfil that recommendation?

[Marsha De Cordova]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for chairing the archbishops’ commission. Along with the pastoral visits made by clergy, resources are made available nationally for disabled people or those who are housebound. They include Sunday services broadcast online on YouTube, each week from a different parish, which have thousands of unique viewers each week and for which British Sign Language interpretation is available. There is the DailyHope telephone line and the Everyday Faith app, with readings and reflections, which is used by 3 million individuals and has been downloaded over 14 million times. There is also the Daily Prayer app, with morning and evening prayer, which has reached over 2.75 million unique listeners since 2021.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

Churches Together South Tyneside does amazing work through its Happy at Home hub, providing a range of services to the lonely and the isolated. Will my hon. Friend expand a little more on the Church’s wider pastoral duties towards those in the greatest need?

[Marsha De Cordova]

Again, I congratulate my hon. Friend on all the wonderful work taking place in her constituency. Churches together groups do a fantastic job in tackling the scourge of isolation and loneliness. There are other projects that started recently to support parishes with the physical accessibility of their buildings, including church halls and other facilities. Without the LPW grant scheme, the adaptation of some of our most historic churches would be harder to deliver at pace.

[Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) (Lab)]

8. What steps the Church is taking to ensure the preservation of historic churches in Northumberland.

[Marsha De Cordova]

The historic churches of Northumberland are among the oldest and most architecturally significant in our country. Any church can apply for support from the £11 million Buildings for Mission fund. The diocese of Newcastle is very grateful for the support of the Northumbria Historic Churches Trust and other local grant-making bodies. My hon. Friend may also want to encourage his parishes to approach some of these excellent charities.

[Ian Lavery]

St Mary’s Church in Woodhorn in my constituency has not been in operation for worship since 1973. It is one of the oldest, most historic churches in Northumberland, if not the country. It is under the care of Northumberland county council now, but it is in a dilapidated state. Can my hon. Friend give me some advice on who I can contact within the Church to see whether it can support the church to ensure that it is part not just of the history of our wonderful county, but of its future?

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend rightly highlights that St Mary’s church in his constituency is one of the oldest, and it is a charming example of wonderful architecture. I understand some of the challenges that he mentions, as the church has been closed for a long period of time. It would be wonderful to see churches such as that reopen—we would all like to see churches open as opposed to closed, as many of them are. As a grade I listed building on the National Heritage List for England, it is eligible for grants for repairs and renovations. I am happy to write to my hon. Friend with a list of grant-making bodies. I will ask Church House for further advice on who he can speak to, as well as working together to see whether we can get his church reopened.

[Mr Speaker]

There is only a tenuous link there, so good luck with that.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I agree with you, Mr Speaker, but I congratulate the hon. Member on trying so diligently on that question. What I will say is that I will happily write to him with a response to that, if that is okay.

[James Asser (West Ham and Beckton) (Lab)]

9. What assessment the Church has made of the effectiveness of the Anglican Al-Ahli hospital in Gaza.

[Marsha De Cordova]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for turning our attention to Gaza. Only 12 of Gaza’s 36 hospital are still in operation, offering mainly basic care. The Anglican-run Al-Ahli hospital has remained operational despite facing huge difficulties, thanks to the dedication of its hard-working staff and the leadership of its director, Suhaila Tarazi. Last week, it was announced that the hospital is to receive £3.4 million of support from the UN Development Programme as well as the Palestinian American Medical Association, but this vital work cannot begin without an immediate ceasefire and a pathway to peace.

[James Asser]

I thank my hon. Friend for her answer. Hon. Members will have noted the progress that has been made on a ceasefire in Lebanon, but, as she has just mentioned, without a ceasefire in Gaza the £3.4 million that has been allocated to the Al-Ahli hospital by the UN Development Programme will not be spent. Given the scale of the humanitarian crisis, the desperate need for medical aid and the onset of winter, that is likely to lead to further suffering and a greater number of deaths.

[Marsha De Cordova]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We all welcome the ceasefire arrangements between Israel and Lebanon, but we need a ceasefire in Gaza. The community in northern Gaza is reliant on the Anglican Al-Ahli hospital for much of its healthcare. The hospital is seeing more than 1,000 emergency patients a day, and has to use the library and historic church as wards, given that the rest of the hospital has been largely destroyed by the Israeli forces. A ceasefire is essential, but we also need humanitarian aid to get in, as well as vital medical supplies, fuel and other resources, so that the rebuilding of infrastructure can begin. We know that there are huge challenges in relation to access being given at checkpoints in Gaza.