Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak)]

We are not immune to the global inflationary shocks that many countries are experiencing. Indeed, eurozone inflation is north of 8%, and inflation in the United States is closer to 9%. We have the determination we need to combat inflation and reduce prices, and we have the tools at our disposal, namely strong and forceful monetary policy, responsible fiscal policy and supply-side reforms.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

One of the really insidious effects of inflation is that it imposes more costs on the poorest in society. What steps will the Chancellor take to make sure not just that we protect people today, but that inflation expectations are not locked in, locking in high inflation for the future, which would be the worst thing we could do for the poorest in our society?

[Rishi Sunak]

As ever, my right hon. Friend makes an excellent and thoughtful point. He is right about the regressive nature of inflation, which is why our recent announcements have been specifically targeted at those on the lowest incomes—the most vulnerable in our society—to help them manage through the challenging months ahead. He is also right that inflation expectations are critical, and I know that the Bank of England will act forcefully, in its words, to restrain inflation and inflation expectations, because the quicker we get through this the better for everyone, particularly the most vulnerable.

Tackling Short-term and Long-term Cost of Living Increases

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Edward Miliband]

I will not give way. Of course, being this Government, they always try to blame someone else, as we heard earlier. It is hard to keep track, but this is the roll call of people who the Conservative party have tried to frame in just the past few days: the Bank of England; civil servants working from home; and, shamefully, the British people for being unable to cook properly. That, apparently, is the cause of food banks. Yesterday, there was also the ludicrous suggestion from a Minister that people were not working enough hours. The Chancellor, of all people, is also at it. Who does he blame for the massive cut to benefits? He blames the IT system—the dude from Silicon Valley. Who is he trying to kid? If he had got his act together early enough, of course he could have raised benefits properly. The thing I do not get is this: he found it perfectly possible to cut universal credit by £20 in the middle of the year—in September. It is not a case of “Computer says no”; it is “Chancellor says no.” It is not that a computer system is not up to it; the Chancellor is not up to it.

The story of the past few months is this: crypto has crashed, and so has the Chancellor—and how similar they are. The Chancellor and cryptocurrency came out of nowhere. The value surged, and it looked like the future, but it has all turned out to be one giant Ponzi scheme. The Chancellor has just been found out. He has been rumbled. Let us be honest, his colleagues all know it. He is out of touch with what is happening in the country. He is out of ideas when it comes to doing the right thing. He is out of his depth when it comes to the challenges that this country faces.

The problem, of course, is that today’s cost of living crisis does not stand alone; it comes on top of a decade of failure. That is why families and our economy are so vulnerable. Over the past 12 years, growth has averaged just 1.4%—the worst record of any Government since the second world war. This is the worst decade for living standards since the 1920s, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies. Indeed, wages would be £7,000 higher on average if wage growth under this Government had matched the rate of growth under the last Labour Government. Taxes are at their highest level since the 1950s. Public services are struggling. Never have so many paid so much for so little. Twelve years of Tory economics have failed, and what does the Chancellor offer in the future? More of the same: anaemic growth at just 1.7%, and squeezed wages as far as the eye can see.

This is the plan for growth that we need: we should tackle the cost of living crisis, so that people have more money in their pockets. We need to put in place an industrial strategy, so that we have good jobs in the industries of the future; that is what Governments all around the world are doing. We need a plan to give people proper rights, to boost wages at work, and to make our economy fair. Where is the employment Bill? It was promised in 2019, but it is still not here. When it comes to being on the side of the workers, Conservatives may mouth the words, but their actions tell the real story.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

I am glad that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned jobs, particularly as today unemployment has fallen to its lowest level. The number of people out of work is now lower than the number of vacancies in the economy. He has just made an extraordinary number of unfunded spending commitments at the Dispatch Box. I want to highlight the big difference between the Labour party and the Chancellor. I remember the spring statement; the shadow Chancellor made a commitment to raising benefits early, because, she said, it would cost no money. It would actually have cost £24 billion across the spending period. There was no sense of how to pay for it. That is Labour from start to finish.

[Edward Miliband]

It is good to see that the right hon. Gentleman has clambered back onto the career bandwagon. I thought that he was no longer a loyalist. The truth is that it was the Resolution Foundation that pointed that out, and I can give him the reference.

I will wind up now. I have mentioned the basics of a modern economy, and this Government are failing on all of them; they have no cost of living plan, no growth plan, and no plan for rights at work. They have not learned from the mistakes of the past decade, and they are condemned to repeat them. The truth is that this Gracious Speech does not remotely rise to the short or long-term challenges that the British people face, but this House can make a difference tonight. I say this to Conservative MPs directly: we have all heard from our constituencies what families are facing. This is an emergency for millions of people. A windfall tax could make a difference.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

I can give my hon. Friend that reassurance. Representing as I do a rural constituency like hers, I know the difficulty that our constituents are facing. That is why our £9 billion package of support for energy that I announced earlier is done by electricity meter, ensuring that those who are off the gas grid also benefit.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

The impact on energy prices of the Russian invasion of Ukraine and the sanctions will inevitably mean that Britain is poorer. There is nothing that we can do about that overall, but we can help to smooth the impact. I welcome the announcement this morning that there are 275,000 extra people on payroll. What more can the Chancellor do to improve companies’ ability to hire workers and to enable people to keep more of their own money; for example, through the reduction in the taper rate on universal credit?

[Rishi Sunak]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for his typically thoughtful question. He is absolutely right about the circumstances we face. The data this morning shows record numbers of people on payroll, and that is to be welcomed. Indeed, the unemployment rate is now back to the levels we saw before the pandemic, thanks to our plan for jobs. There are record vacancies, and we want to get people into work. The best way to do that is to give them the skills they need and cut taxes to increase incentives. That is exactly what this Government are doing, and I expect us to make more progress in the months ahead.

Economic Update

Lord Harper Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

The Labour party has proposals that would give considerably less to many people, so it is a bit rich to hear that. The hon. Member had a long list of numbers. I also have one: 400,000 more people on the payroll than there were before the crisis; 2 million jobs saved because of the actions of this Government; the national living wage going up by £1,000 a year in April; and a £1,000 tax cut for millions of people on universal credit. Those things are what we are doing to put more money into people’s pockets when they need it, and they can rely on us to continue supporting them not just now, but for days and years into the future.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

First, I thank the Chancellor for coming to the House to make his statement before he does a press conference. That is the right order of priorities. I also thank him for engaging with Conservative colleagues, listening to their concerns and responding to them in his statement. Finally, may I highlight the realism and honesty with which he has grappled with global gas prices? We cannot pretend that they have not gone up and what he has done is set out a package to smooth the impact for everybody and to help those on the lowest incomes. That is the right approach and it demonstrates why we have got it right and the Labour party is not fit for office.

[Rishi Sunak]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Those of us in government make responsible decisions and we are honest with people. I think people respect that honesty and it is the right thing for us to do. He is right that there is a global surge in gas prices and it would be wrong to pretend that we do not have to adjust to that, but what we can do is take the sting out of that adjustment, spread its impact over time and limit its immediate impact. That is the right and responsible approach and I am grateful for his support on that plan.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, and I completely agree that we want to pursue fraud whenever it has occurred. That is why, at the March 2021 Budget, we established a £100 million taskforce with more than 1,000 employees, designed precisely to go after every penny that has been taken by people not entitled to it. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has already recovered and prevented £743 million-worth of loss; the taskforce is expected to recover £800 million to £1 billion from fraudulent or incorrect payments over the two years of its existence, and HMRC reserves the right to carry on for as long as it takes.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

I welcome the Chancellor’s clear confirmation last week that, far from writing off any of that money, the Government are going after everyone who has claimed it fraudulently. However, it is important to remember the context. The businesses in my constituency know the jobs that were saved by the rapid roll-out of bounce back loans and furlough and know that the Chancellor had to balance those constraints: while it is right to go after criminals, it was also right to make fast, smart decisions to protect thousands of jobs across our nation.

[Mr Clarke]

My right hon. Friend puts it extremely well. We must remember the context: the economy was going through a heart attack at that time, owing to the necessary steps we took to support wider public health. I would remind the Opposition Benches that the shadow Chancellor wrote to the Chancellor at the time, describing the loan scheme application process as “cumbersome” and calling for access to be made easier. We were operating in that context of needing to ensure that businesses could access the support to which they were legitimately entitled.

Downing Street Parties: Police Investigation

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Michael Ellis]

The hon. Gentleman asks me questions about the police investigation. I have no knowledge about that—nor would I expect to, nor should I have knowledge about it. He asks about the publication. I have already indicated that the findings of the investigation will be published.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

I accept that the Paymaster General may not be able to answer this question now, but will he assure the House that either he or other Ministers will keep the House posted about whether the Prime Minister will be interviewed by the Metropolitan police—either as a witness or as a potential suspect in this criminal investigation?

[Michael Ellis]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question but of course the police will conduct the investigation, as they do in any case, entirely at their own discretion. I would not expect to be informed about that, nor would the House expect me to be.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clarke]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a valid point about the importance of oil and gas to the UK economy and, of course, in particular to Scotland’s economy. My colleagues on the Government Benches would join him in saying it is really important that we support the success of the North sea oil and gas industry into the future. The SNP’s lack of support is a serious disappointment and a serious concern. The Government are committed to supporting the transition to net zero, but that must involve the word “transition”, so that industry will be of importance for decades to come.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

I thank the Chief Secretary for what he said in support of the western gateway, but may I draw to his attention the importance of skills to improving regional growth? On Thursday this week, the AccXel construction skills accelerator centre will open in my constituency. It is a partnership, supported last year by Government money that a fantastic private sector business has already turned into the centre that will open this week. It will take students at the beginning of next year and drive construction skills to a high level throughout the south-west of England.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rishi Sunak]

There were no extra taxes for the self-employed in last week’s Budget; the right hon. Gentleman may be referring to a timing difference that was reflected in the Budget scorecard of previously announced policies. With regard to the self-employed, he should take a moment to reflect on the fact that this Government provided almost £30 billion of support to millions of self-employed people throughout the crisis, and I am very glad that we did so.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

May I first thank the Chancellor for the steps in the Budget to help retail, hospitality and leisure businesses? They have gone down very well in my constituency, where those businesses are important, were hit hard during in the pandemic and were grateful for the support they got. People have commented to me that the most useful thing he can do is to focus on getting the public finances in order, as he spoke about in the latter part of his speech, so that we get taxes on a downward path as we go through this Parliament. That is the best fiscal way to help businesses to prosper in the future.

[Rishi Sunak]

As always, my right hon. Friend makes an excellent point, and I thank him for the eloquent speech he made on this topic last week. I wholeheartedly agree with him. My intention and goal over the rest of this Parliament is to reduce taxes, and we both know that the best way to create growth and prosperity in this country is to unleash the entrepreneurial innovation of our private businesses.

Budget Resolutions

Lord Harper Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

As always, it is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood), who I agreed with for the first time ever yesterday. That is something I enjoyed, however fleetingly.

After listening to the Chancellor today, I think arrogance is up, complacency is up and delusion is up. Certainly, in my constituency of Wallasey and in the country as a whole, the cost of living is up, taxes are up, poverty is up and hardship is up. That is the background against which the Chancellor delivered his speech.

The combined Budget and spending review comes at a pivotal time for the country. That is partially a result of grim circumstance, which is beyond the control of any Government, as we have heard today—the pandemic and the challenge of the transition to net zero—but it is also the result of the Government’s serious mistakes and self-inflicted wounds. The botched Brexit deal has caused chaos at the borders, soaring prices and shortages, and the Government’s deadly complacency about the virus has resulted in one of the biggest economic hits and one of the largest per capita death tolls in the developed world—failure piled upon failure.

The most vulnerable have been hit the hardest, whether they are the young having their opportunities destroyed by school disruption, the old sacrificed in their tens of thousands in our neglected and underfunded social care system or the millions flung into poverty by the Government’s cruel universal credit cut—not compensated for by changes to the taper announced today, which will help only one in three and leave us with the circumstance whereby millionaires pay a marginal tax rate of 45p while those on poor wages who qualify for universal credit and are able to work pay 55%.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

Two brief points. First, it is worth saying that the legacy benefits system that we inherited, before we implemented universal credit, had withdrawal rates for benefits sometimes close to, and sometimes exceeding, 100%. Whatever the hon. Lady says, this is a massive improvement.

Secondly, there is a qualitative moral difference between taking from people money that they have earned and withdrawing benefits that people are given, paid for by other taxpayers. Those are different things, and the hon. Lady should not pretend that they are the same.

[Dame Angela Eagle]

While I agree with the right hon. Gentleman that benefit tapers have been a long-running problem for many Governments to solve, we know that the 63% fall in the Department for Work and Pensions’ costs has come about not because everybody is in work, but because benefits are some of the lowest in the developed world, causing huge hardship and poverty. The right hon. Gentleman needs to recognise that as well.

This is a Government who love power but are bored with the hard work of governing. They disdained to anticipate the problems their ideological obsession with a hard Brexit has created, choosing to believe their own propaganda instead, but the red book shows that, as a result, trade with the EU is sharply down and projected to reduce living standards by 4%, which is twice the OBR estimate of the cost of the covid pandemic. Underlying some of our difficulties are the problems of Brexit and the fact that the Government did not prepare for the trade disruption caused by their hard Brexit deal, which threw fishing, farming and peace in Northern Ireland to the wolves in pursuit of their own peculiar obsessions. They did not prepare for the supply chain problems caused by the shortage of HGV drivers, the vacancies in social care and the staff shortages in the NHS.

This is a Government who have been unwilling to offer short-term temporary relief to those who are suffering the growing cost-of-living crisis, as energy prices have rocketed and as inflation soars towards 5% this winter. Fuel and food prices are rising fast, and people are feeling the pinch. An end to the public sector pay freeze will not compensate unless it offers real increases in wages, which, taking inflation into account, have only just returned to their 2009 level. Let’s face it: whatever it says in the Chancellor’s latest propaganda press release, any pay increase below inflation is actually a pay cut on top of years of hardship, so we will have to await the detail.

A fair recovery would start with a Chancellor who had the humility to be honest about why these blunders have been made. Unfortunately, we do not have such a Chancellor; we have a Jekyll and Hyde Chancellor, with his eyes firmly on his own advancement and with a slick PR operation to match his vaunting ambition—a Chancellor whose persona depends a bit on his audience.

To the country at large, he is that nice Dr Jekyll, brandishing his public spending largesse in a blizzard of pre-Budget leaks, increasing the national living wage and announcing the end of the public sector pay freeze—he is hoping that we will not notice that it was he who froze pay last year, on top of a decade of previous Tory pay freezes that have seen real living standards fall more than at any time since the Napoleonic wars.

But when he is burnishing his leadership credentials with Tory MPs, he becomes the sadistic Mr Hyde, posing as a true low-tax, small-state Thatcherite, waxing lyrical about his

“sacred responsibility to…balance the books”,

because to do otherwise would be “immoral”—he is hoping that they will not notice that he has presided over the largest increase in the size of the state in peacetime and the biggest tax rises in 25 years. That comes the year after he borrowed an eye-watering £350 billion in a single year to pay for his covid response. The fraud, the waste and the graft to Tory donors have been an ever-present feature of the bonanza of state mis-spending that he has presided over. In fact, it has been the very definition of “immoral”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

What I have heard from several Members, particularly Opposition Members, suggests that they do not really know what levelling up is. I think it is actually very straightforward. It is about spreading opportunity more fairly and evenly across the country, so that all children, whichever part of the country they live in—in fact, not just all children, but all adults—have the same opportunity to reach their full potential. I do not think that that is very complicated to explain, but it is of course more challenging to deliver.

[Angus Brendan MacNeil]

Surely levelling up should be something very simple, and simply understood. It is a product of UK misgovernance over the years—of governance that has meant only policies for the south-east of England, specifically ignoring much of the rest of the UK. That is why, on our side, we want to do things ourselves in the future.

[Mr Harper]

I took an intervention from the hon. Gentleman because I anticipated what he might say. I listened carefully to the Chancellor, and he set out a Budget that delivers not just for every part of England but for every part of our United Kingdom. We on this side of the House—and I think, to be fair, those on the Labour Benches—want to ensure that we keep our country together. We are spreading opportunity to every part of the United Kingdom. I listened carefully to the Chancellor, and this Budget delivers a significant increase in resources to the Scottish Government. I hope that they spend those resources wisely, although given their track record, I am pretty confident that they will not.

[Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

Let me make a little more progress, then I will of course give way to my right hon. Friend.

I thank the Chancellor for agreeing to the levelling-up bid made by my constituents. It was a partnership bid by Hartpury University and Hartpury College, Forest of Dean District Council and Cinderford Town Council, and it focuses very much on improving opportunities for my constituents. They worked collaboratively with me and my office, which put me in a strong position to make the case to Ministers, including the Chancellor, and it got us a really good result today. This was a real Forest team effort. Does my right hon. Friend still wish to intervene on me?

[Mr Mitchell]

indicated dissent.

[Mr Harper]

I see that he is allowing me to make some progress.

We have a strong track record in my constituency. We got money from the Getting Building Fund last spring for the Construction Skills Accelerator Centre, which will improve skills and productivity in the construction industry. That centre will be completed and opened this December, which demonstrates turning around Government support and money in partnership with the private sector and delivering real change on the ground very quickly indeed.

I also welcome what the Chancellor set out on alcohol duty. That will be particularly welcomed by small producers in my constituency, especially our fantastic cider makers, including Severn Cider. Also, picking up on the theme of leisure, retail and hospitality, the 50% reduction in business rates will be a tremendous benefit to that sector, which was hard hit throughout the pandemic. That extra resource will be very welcome. Also, £175,000 from the community ownership fund has enabled the Rising Sun pub in Woodcroft to be saved and to become a really strong community asset.

Turning to the Budget themes overall, I think the Chancellor’s focus on fiscal responsibility and sound money is incredibly important. This is not about ideology; it is the key to our future prosperity. It is because we took sensible, difficult decisions between 2010 and 2019 that, when the pandemic hit last year, we were able to spend what was required to protect jobs and to defend people across our country. If we had not taken those difficult decisions, we would not have been in a position to respond accordingly. It is important to focus on sound money because inflation is a real threat, and it is a threat to the poorest. That is why it is important for the Chancellor to keep control of the public finances—I am pleased that he has done so today—and of the level of investment to drive up productivity. I agree with all those speakers on our side of the House who have pointed out that we have to deliver productivity in order to ensure that we can have high wages without driving up inflation. That is absolutely critical.

Finally, I want to focus on a few themes from the Budget. The spending that we rolled out last year on the pandemic, particularly on protecting jobs, keeping unemployment low and reducing the long-term impact of covid, will turn out to be one of the wisest decisions that we took. It has been welcomed by my constituents, and I think that our decision to minimise the economic impact of the pandemic will be something that we will look back on and be thankful for. That decision does of course mean that we have grown the size of the economy. We have had to put up taxes, which I am not comfortable with and nor is the Chancellor, but it was necessary and we would have regretted doing anything differently.

I welcome the Chancellor’s significant reduction in the taper rate for universal credit. This will ensure that work pays. It will encourage everybody on universal credit to get into work—we are seeing a record number of vacancies in the economy—or, if they are in work, it will make it absolutely worth their while to take on extra hours or increase their skills to earn extra income. That is the right set of incentives.

In closing, to stick to the Chair’s informal time limit, I will focus on the Chancellor’s final remarks on the size of the state and the direction of travel. I am pleased he has set out an ambition for this Government to reduce the size of the state, enabling people to take more responsibility for themselves. It was necessary to grow the state to deal with the pandemic, but he has set out a clear direction of travel on empowering individuals. I am pleased to back that mission, and I am pleased to support the Budget.

I commend the Budget to all Conservative Members.

Northern Ireland Protocol

Lord Harper Excerpts

Thursday 15th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

My hon. Friend makes the point very powerfully.

Sixthly, new arrangements should ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, unless agreed by the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly. That commitment was made in paragraph 50 of the joint report by negotiators from the European Union and the United Kingdom Government in December 2017. Our Government sadly failed to honour that paragraph when they concluded the Northern Ireland protocol. We expect that commitment, which was made by the Government, to be honoured.

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

On those last two points about no new regulatory barriers and the checks on goods going between GB and NI, will the right hon. Gentleman confirm, as it would be helpful for the House, that there were already checks on animal health, given that the island of Ireland was a single animal health zone? Is he saying that the checks that already existed pre-Brexit are not encompassed by his point, and he is talking about new checks that have come along as a result of us leaving the European Union?

[Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Of course we accept that checks that were in place before Brexit should continue, and goods that are proceeding on from Great Britain through Northern Ireland to the EU may of course have different arrangements. We object to goods that are moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland being subject to new checks under the protocol.

Seventhly, new arrangements must preserve the letter and the spirit of Northern Ireland’s constitutional guarantee, set out most recently in the Belfast agreement, which requires in advance the consent of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland for any diminution in its status as part of the United Kingdom. Our consent was not sought for the diminution in our status and the repealing of a key element of the Act of Union that changed our status with the Northern Ireland protocol. To reduce the constitutional status to our having a say in the final step of leaving the United Kingdom would mean that, in effect, it is no meaningful guarantee at all. If the constitutional guarantee for Northern Ireland is to have any meaning, it applies not just to the question of whether we are part of a united Ireland or remain in the United Kingdom. The Belfast agreement is clear that it is about any change to the status of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom, and our consent was not sought and has most certainly not been given.

In conclusion, there is no practical or pragmatic reason why arrangements cannot be put in place that satisfy those tests and prove no meaningful threat to the integrity of the EU single market. We require that Northern Ireland’s place within the UK internal market is restored and we expect that the Government will take steps to do that in line with the previous commitments that they have given, from the Prime Minister down. My party will assess any new arrangements against these seven tests. I hope that for the sake of the integrity of the United Kingdom and the people of Northern Ireland we will not be disappointed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con)]

Can I add my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin) for securing this debate, otherwise we would not be here, and to the Backbench Business Committee for finding the time for us to have this debate on the Floor of the House, so that we can debate these important issues and of course listen to the Minister’s response on behalf of the Government?

Having listened to the debate, I think the points I would want to make are these. The first point, which has been made by others, but I think was not really debated in an even way during the Brexit debate, is that the Belfast/Good Friday agreement has to be supported by both communities in Northern Ireland. I had a sense during the debate that, certainly from the EU’s perspective, an enormous amount of weight was perfectly understandably put on the border, or rather the lack of a physical border, between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland and on the views of the nationalist community, but there was not an enormous amount of focus from the EU on the views of the Unionist community and the border, or the lack of one, between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In this debate, we are trying to redress that balance and reinforce the fact that for the Belfast/Good Friday agreement to be maintained—it is my strong view that it should be, and I know that is the Government’s view—it has to command the support of both communities in Northern Ireland.

The danger with the Northern Ireland protocol is that it potentially puts at risk the support of one community, which could fatally undermine the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, and that is in the interests of nobody except the men of violence. That is why it is really important that we address this issue. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois) said, the warnings that Lord Trimble set out should be taken very seriously. He is a man who put not just his reputation but his life at risk to deliver that agreement, so we should listen to his words. He knows the power of words and will have chosen them with care. That is the importance of that.

I do take seriously the EU’s concerns about its single market, but we need to focus on what is the actual risk to the single market, not the theoretical risk. It seems to me that the EU is concerned largely about a theoretical risk that does not actually exist, partly because of the geography. It is not reasonable to assume that physical products would move from Great Britain or Northern Ireland into the Republic of Ireland and then be re-exported from the Republic of Ireland into the rest of the European Union in volumes that would significantly damage the single market. The key word here is “proportionate”. It is about ensuring that any measures that the EU wants in place to protect its single market are proportionate not to the theoretical risk to the single market but to the actual risk. Several of my hon. Friends, on both sides of the House, have set out clearly that the checks and controls in place between Great Britain and Northern Ireland are simply not proportionate to the actual risk involved. That is something that the Government need to address with the European Union.

I note that in the justifications for using article 16 that, although serious economic, societal and environmental difficulties have to be liable to persist to allow the Government to use that article, diversion of trade simply has to exist at any point. I certainly think the Government should not take that option off the table in order to secure agreement from the European Union. I would prefer us to reach agreement. It is much better if we can reach agreement and have something that both sides wish to enforce, but in order to get a better outcome we must not take the unilateral option off the table.

[Mr Francois]

My right hon. Friend kindly referred to me earlier and, far more importantly, to Lord Trimble. Does he agree that, although there are often risks in doing something, in this situation there are also risks in not doing something? If we do not address the serious discontent in one community in Northern Ireland, there is a real risk, as he hinted, that people with a dark past will seek to exploit this for their own ends and use violence rather than democratic debate to advance their objectives, which are not in the interests of the Good Friday agreement.

[Mr Harper]

My right hon. Friend puts it very well. There are serious risks here, which is why we need to address the perfectly reasonable concerns that many people have in Northern Ireland.

It would be helpful if the Minister could indicate when the Government will set out their thinking—obviously, there is not long to go before the recess—and whether that will be announced in such a way as to give us the chance to question Ministers. The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson), who leads the Democratic Unionist party, set out its checklist for how it is going to test any proposals that the Governments bring forward. It would be helpful to know—I do not expect the Minister and the United Kingdom Government to completely agree with the right hon. Gentleman—

[Jim Shannon]

Why not?

[Mr Harper]

Well, they may. My request was going to be for the Minister to set out which of the tests that the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley set out the Government agree with and which they perhaps do not. Listening to his objectives, I do not think that that list can have come as an enormous surprise, so it would be helpful to get a bit of a steer about the extent to which there is some commonality.

My final point is that, very clearly, as several of my hon. and right hon. Friends have said, there was envisaged in the protocol and the political declaration the idea that the protocol was not a permanent solution but a temporary solution. Certainly, both sides—the British Government and the EU—said that they would take seriously alternative arrangements that could be put in place to enable businesses in Northern Ireland to have unfettered access to the Great Britain market, but just as importantly, to enable businesses in Great Britain to trade freely with Northern Ireland, for the benefit of both Northern Ireland businesses and consumers in Northern Ireland.

Even if one accepts—and I am not sure that I do—that those arrangements could not have been put in place several years ago when we left the European Union, saying that they can never be put in place and that, as technology and business procedures develop, we cannot develop our arrangements, seems unreasonable. Both the EU and the British Government should, working together, be able to take those forward. I look forward very much to listening, in the not-too-distant future, to the Minister’s response to what has been an excellent debate on both sides of the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Harper]

On the point about prioritising the single market, it is less about that and more about the proportionality point that I mentioned. Is there either any agreement between the British Government and the EU or at least some move to some shared understanding of what the actual risks are to the single market, as opposed to the theoretical ones, so that we can move to a much more proportionate balance of checks and controls on both sides?

[Penny Mordaunt]

My right hon. Friend is right that a seriously unbalanced situation is developing in the way that the protocol is operating. The protocol can be sustained only as long as it retains support in Northern Ireland; therefore, making it work is, you would think, in everyone’s interest. We need to focus on those shared and stated principles and common ambitions for prosperity and peace. It was ambition for our country that brought us to this point, and ambition is the parent of courage and determination. As we now need to think creatively, we have to find a new balance.

We need an approach to implementation that respects the delicate balance between the interests of all communities in Northern Ireland, and the economic and cultural links, east and west, as well as north and south. That is the thrust of the motion that we have been debating. The Government are ready to do that, and colleagues will not have long to wait. My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex, who opened the debate, and all Members who have spoken, have done a service by demonstrating that support for such an ambition is the overwhelming mood of this House.